PDA

View Full Version : Trailer Purchase- brand and option preferences



Dirty Little Secret
Sep. 15, 2008, 03:52 PM
Finally going to purchase a new trailer. I ship about 1-2 a month usually no more than 2-3 hours away. I'd like a 2 horse, bumper pull with dressing room. (have 2500 HD truck).

Brand Preference:
-Sundowner (have a 2005 or 2006 model and don't like it- leaks, moderate construction, really slick ramp!) Are the 2009/2008 models better?
- Lakota (know little about them but heard positives)
- 4 Star (having one priced now)

Options:
WERM flooring?
5200 lb axle? (suggested by 4 Star dealer)
what else.....?

THANKS!!! Want to get best/most/safest for my money!

nuts4cowboybutts
Sep. 15, 2008, 03:59 PM
If you want something EXACTLY like you want, consider having one custom made by Wrangler Trailers in Arkansas.

Buddy at Wrangler Trailers will make it just as you want it AND he will give you a better price than any of the big name trailers. Well constructed, best price, best service - that's Wrangler. They'll make it with any and all options you want.

The customer service there is GREAT and we'd have him make our next one also, although ours is so good, I don't think it will ever wear out.

jcotton
Sep. 15, 2008, 04:19 PM
I would go with 4-Star. They hold their value well.
I am on my 4th 4-Star, I keep trading them in as my needs change but I am done changing. Werm flooring is easy to care for better than lifting up mats to clean under. 5200 lb axles should be fine unless you are hauling really big horses than go to 7000 lb axles. I would get minimally "E" rated tires or higher. If you can afford it get the dressing room braced for AC , helpful if you want to add AC later or for resale.

Lakotas are too new and don't how well built or how they hold up to reality of hauling and horses.

2bee
Sep. 15, 2008, 04:33 PM
5200# axles on an aluminum 2h BP? What is that dealer smoking?

I have a steel 2H slant BP w/dress, loaded with two 1000# animals, weighs 5000# on the axles (2 @ 3500#). I would think 5200# axles on an aluminum (even with larger horses) trailer would ride like crap. I would skip the axle upgrade and go for the WERM.

Trakehner
Sep. 15, 2008, 07:10 PM
Eby's are great.

Yep, 5200# axle would ride horribly...

tkhawk
Sep. 15, 2008, 07:17 PM
4-star also offers an air-ride. That would make it really good.. But I have a Classic -I like it. But my next one I defnitely want an air ride-and and -oh well you never stop when shopping for your horse:winkgrin:!!!!

gabz
Sep. 15, 2008, 07:23 PM
What the dealer is referring to on the axles is how much weight they carry. If the axles are rated quite a bit higher than the weight they carry - they will be very stiff and the trailer will bounce unless fully weighted.
(Like my truck does when the bed is empty).

If money were not a limiting factor, I would start first with a HAWK or Trail-et. From there, I would consider an Adam or Jamco.

I'm not sure how 4Stars are performing lately - they have a strong reputation from the 1980s and 1990s and into early 2000...

I would avoid a Sundowner at this point in time. It appears that their QC goes up and down based on model and date of manufacture.

Can you at least give us a state or region you are in? Then folks can suggest dealerships. I think that even with a great trailer, if you don't get a REALLY,REALLY good dealership who will take care of warranty issues, the warranty isn't much good at all. And, there are some brands more available in the north east than in California, for example.

Here's a simplified version of what torsion/Dexter axles are. A tube filled with rubber bits that the axle goes through. The rubber bits allow the axle to "float" so to speak. If the axle floats too much, the ride is bouncy. On the other hand, if the axles are not rated at a high enough weight rating, they can prematurely fail.

flypony74
Sep. 15, 2008, 07:50 PM
I have a 2005 4-Star, and it is awesome. Built like a brick you-know-what. Extremely well-built trailers (well, really OVERbuilt, which is nice) and they will design it any way you want.

My trailer has the WERM and it is wonderful. My gelding pees in the trailer all the time and it is so nice not to have to pull mats. He is an occasional pawer with his big size 4 feet and you can't see a mark on the WERM....very durable.

My instructor advised me to get the heaviest-duty axles and brakes that I could, so I did (mine are 7k axles for my 3H), and my trailer rides fine. I put a lot of miles on it and the horses come off happy and relaxed.

If you can afford it, go with a 4-Star....super quality, and they hold their value really well.

gabz
Sep. 15, 2008, 07:54 PM
Glad to hear that 4-star is STILL a great trailer to own... I wasn't sure if the rumors I was hearing were grounded or not.

I still prefer a fiberglass roof though. It's SO much cooler in the summer and I really like the extra "light" it provides.

CanterQueen
Sep. 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
I wanted a 4-Star but went with a Hawk instead. 2-horse bumper pull with the Rumbler floor. I bought the bigger TB option and I LOFF it. Great quality and my horses love the light and open feel and walk right in. So much fun not having to fuss with them or worry about the trailer.

CJBean
Sep. 16, 2008, 12:33 PM
I also have a new Hawk trailer and I found that they are extremely reasonably priced. I also love that their standard models come with excellent features that you would have to pay extra for with other brands, such as standard height on inside is 7 feet 6 inches. Comes with spare tire with the tire not just the rim, roof vents etc. I was able to customize my trailer a little bit more with out breaking the bank, so I added a ramp with full doors rather then the half door, added a few extra lights on inside and running boards and a little extra gravel guard diamond plate to the wheel wells.

Also the horse area seems to be wider and longer then some other two horse trailers.

And I absolutely love the dressing room, very spacious.

Holly Jeanne
Sep. 16, 2008, 12:44 PM
I just bought a Hawk as well. I got a two horse, gooseneck with a dressing room and a side ramp. I have found that I LOVE my side ramp. All of mine know how to back out of a trailer but I feel much better about walking them out the side. My 5 yo, who was afraid of trailers, is walking right in (mind you, I've had it a week and haven't taken her anywhere in it yet. :lol: ). I hauled a horse to a trainer in the next state over the weekend and had to haul back empty in the heavy winds. Scared me silly but the truck and trailer handled it fine. The only customization I did was to put in a barred divider instead of solid but, in retrospect, I would probably put in the extra gravel guard in the wheel well also.

Things I love about my sideramp:
Super easy to unload!
Let's in a lot of light and gives an open feel.
Provides a great area to put hay or shavings when it's raining.
It's going to be a great place to set up chairs at an event to stay out of rain or sun.
At rest stops, I opened the half door above the ramp so my girl could have more air but no one could go in to see the horsie.
Easy to put hay or shavings in it since it is wider than an escape door
When I leave it open while riding, my dog loves to sit inside and watch me ride.

Thanks COTH folks for directing me to Happy Trails Trailers. Risa was great and now I have the trailer of my dreams. :D

Here's the BP equivalent: http://www.happytrailstrailers.com/product.php?pid=2
This one has a couple of customizations I didn't do but it's almost what I got:
http://www.happytrailstrailers.com/product.php?pid=117

rugbygirl
Sep. 16, 2008, 01:49 PM
I love my Featherlite. 2-horse bumper pull with a large dressing room. I needed the extra wide/extra tall variety for my monster.

It has a door to the dressing room between the mangers, and loads of storage space under the mangers.

Everything about this trailer has pleased me so far. Service from the dealer was exceptional.

No ramp (I hate ramps) but it is an option if you want it.

Floor covering and wall covering is great, soft and grippy. Cleans very well too. This trailer has stood up to a ton of use already, carting a Clydesdale around the Province. She's pulled back on a lot of the components, nothing has broken so far (besides the halters...as is the idea). Padding on the fronts of the mangers is tough and looks great after a year and a half. She also FITS which is a huge deal. The floor space AND the space in front of the chest pad are big enough for her.

I'd ask the dealer to add sway bars to this model. I pull it with a Dodge 1500, and strong cross-winds on the tall trailer sometimes creates a bit of sway in the back.

Besides the periodic cross-winds, the trailer handles beautifully. Very responsive, great trailer brakes, easy to back-up.

The dressing room is wide enough for a cot, and has more than enough room to camp in at shows :) I also camp in it on trail rides.

I would also ask the dealer to install the extra bridle hooks...pretty much install all the extra hanging-stuff you can. That's my only complaint so far, that I have too much crap to just stack on the floor.

Dirty Little Secret
Sep. 16, 2008, 02:29 PM
I can't seem to find base pricing on 4 stars anywhere!
The quote I was given was right around 20k for a 2 horse bumper pull, dressing room, WERM flooring, heavy axles.
I bought my sundowner from Ken Feagin trailer in Western NC. www.kftrailers.com
I saw prices for the Hawk trailers on the happy trails website.

Are 4 stars that much better really? I've always heard great things but never touched one. Guess I should find a dealer and go.... I spoke with Stotts Trailers in Landrum, SC for my price quote.

Thanks!!!

gabz
Sep. 16, 2008, 02:36 PM
http://www.horsetrailers-online.com/home/newhome.asp

You can search for size, brand, state, price, etc. etc.

monstrpony
Sep. 16, 2008, 03:14 PM
You're welcome to stop by and look at my Hawk. I've been beyond happy with it and Risa at Happy Trails is a delight to work with. They really are nice trailers.

4-Stars are really nice, but being all Al, they are pricey. What I like about the Hawk is the right materials in the right places that keeps the $$ down somewhat.

Nipntuck
Sep. 16, 2008, 06:30 PM
I wouldn't touch a Sundowner based on structural problems I've heard about. I also did not want an aluminum floor. The work required to keep the warranty in effect made me wonder why they required so much upkeep and what bad might happen if I didn't get around to it all. My wood floor has a lifetime warranty, which is more than Rumber or Aluminum and my old 1979 trailer had the original wood floor, still in excellent shape.

I have a Hawk 2+1, bought through Happy Trails and have been very happy with the trailer and Risa's service.

Best of luck with your search!

CJBean
Sep. 16, 2008, 07:14 PM
Like Niptuck said it is great that Hawk backs their wood floor with lifetime warranty. I went with the wood floor on my Hawk because I did hear from a few people that the Rumber floor can wear unevenly and have dips in the floor over time so I opted to just go with wood with mats.

However if you do go with another brand and you want to use that worm floor I would try to get some people's experiences with that type of floor. To be honest I had never heard of it, but I checked out their webpage and it seems pretty cool.

Just see what others have experienced with it over a long period of time:)

Anselcat
Sep. 16, 2008, 07:29 PM
I just bought my first trailer with a DR -- a 2-horse Adams bumper pull.

As far as options go, I am soooo glad I had them put in a window in the bulkhead wall between DR and stall, and also add another window in the external DR wall. I can open them all up and get some really good ventilation both in the DR and the horse stall for those times ol' Dobbin has to wait a bit in the trailer (and for me when changing into my britches).

And I'm very happy with the Adams trailer, both quality and price. Steel frame and aluminum skin.

monstrpony
Sep. 16, 2008, 07:42 PM
I just bought my first trailer with a DR -- a 2-horse Adams bumper pull.

As far as options go, I am soooo glad I had them put in a window in the bulkhead wall between DR and stall, and also add another window in the external DR wall. I can open them all up and get some really good ventilation both in the DR and the horse stall for those times ol' Dobbin has to wait a bit in the trailer (and for me when changing into my britches).


.

Both standard in Risa's Hawk packages :D

flypony74
Sep. 16, 2008, 08:50 PM
I can't seem to find base pricing on 4 stars anywhere!
The quote I was given was right around 20k for a 2 horse bumper pull, dressing room, WERM flooring, heavy axles.
I bought my sundowner from Ken Feagin trailer in Western NC. www.kftrailers.com
I saw prices for the Hawk trailers on the happy trails website.

Are 4 stars that much better really? I've always heard great things but never touched one. Guess I should find a dealer and go.... I spoke with Stotts Trailers in Landrum, SC for my price quote.

Thanks!!!

Yes, you really can't beat a 4-Star. That being said, I couldn't afford a brand new one with all the options that I needed, so I searched for a few months until a used one came along. It was less that two years old when I bought it, had only been used about 10 times, and was in pristine condition. And I probably saved about $5-6k. It still wasn't cheap, but SO very worth it. I haul a LOT, and this trailer has proven to be a real workhorse....pulls like a dream, no annoying little things breaking, VERY user friendly features, and clearly top notch design/layout/materials.

Dirty Little Secret
Sep. 18, 2008, 03:52 PM
oh the decisions are endless and daunting!

How much debt should I accumulate. I like the 4stars the best by far but is it really worth the price.....?
There are lots of features of Sundowners that I really like and they do seem to be what most people I know go to but I seem to have gotten a lemon trailer. Or did I?
And then there's Hawk which I just don't know about. Price seems too good to be true and I swore I didn't want a wood floor and it's got the weird coupling on it that I don't like.
AGH!!!!!

Janet
Sep. 18, 2008, 04:05 PM
And then there's Hawk which I just don't know about. Price seems too good to be true and I swore I didn't want a wood floor and it's got the weird coupling on it that I don't like.
AGH!!!!!

I am VERY happy with my Hawk, with the Rumber floor.

What "weird coupling" are you referring to?

Dirty Little Secret
Sep. 19, 2008, 12:29 AM
after talking to the Hawk rep I learned several things:
1) the strange coupler is called a wedge coupler. Apparently it's been changed and simplified. I learned that the coupler on my Sundowner is a clam coupler.
2) I learned that I really like the sound of the Hawk trailer and certainly like the price. The rep said that she was not impressed with the stability of the Rumber floor and it didn't come with the lifetime warranty- the wood does.
3) I like the 2009 paint job better than the 2008
4) I like all the standard features! Was going to add almost $3000 to cost for Sundowner or 4star!

Holly Jeanne
Sep. 19, 2008, 09:46 AM
My Hawk is a 2009. I've had it for a grand total of 2 weeks today so can't really talk about longevity. My trainer also has an older Hawk and is very happy with it. I asked at my trailer repair place about Hawk and they gave it a thumbs up. Said they are nice trailers. I got the wooden floor as, like someone else, I had heard that the others could be harder to fix if there is a problem. I drove mine empty in the high winds for 4 1/2 hours on Sunday and was very pleased with the stability.

merrygoround
Sep. 19, 2008, 10:01 AM
I have used and friends have bought Collin-Arndt's outta the Harrisburg PA area. He builds exactly what you want, discusses options,has top quality, they last forever, and they are comparable in price to other top quality trailers. There are few dealerships, we bought our first thru a dealer, our last direct.

Melelio
Sep. 19, 2008, 10:03 AM
Steel Steel Steel (galvanealed)

Did I forget...Steel?
:lol:

merrygoround
Sep. 19, 2008, 10:08 AM
Steel Steel Steel (galvanealed)

Did I forget...Steel?

:lol:

Heavy! Heavy Heavy! Rusts!

Dirty Little Secret
Sep. 19, 2008, 07:09 PM
the Hawk is galvanized steel frame with aluminum siding. My all aluminum Sundowner weighs about 3500 pounds and the similar Hawk weighs 3300. I have a 2500 HD truck though so I'm not too concerned about weight.

Melelio
Sep. 19, 2008, 11:14 PM
Heavy! Heavy Heavy! Rusts!


Not really, not really not really...and ever heard of galvanealed?

What do you think your car is made of? Aluminum? Would you drive around in and all aluminum car? And risking getting hit by a Suburban? I thought not...

Flash44
Sep. 20, 2008, 02:44 PM
I have an Eclipse 2h bp with a side ramp and tack storage built into the nose of the trailer. I LOVE MY SIDE RAMP!!! You have no idea how much more "headroom" it gives the horses. My new trailer is exactly the same size as my old Kingston 2h bp w/dressing room, but it doesn't have the dividing wall. So you have a ton of room inside the trailer in front of the horses. I love unloading from the side ramp since my son can unload his pony by himself. There is also enough room that you can load a pony from the side ramp. It's just nice that you can set up a chair inside the trailer and get out of the weather if you are at a show for a long time.

jesterjigger
Sep. 22, 2008, 01:34 PM
I have an Equispirit and love it. I would recommend at least checking out the Equispirit website, it may give you some ideas of options you'd like that you may not have considered yet. They also have articles on the site that are helpful.

purplnurpl
Sep. 22, 2008, 02:36 PM
I have a steel Circle C that is 10 years old. The only rust is on the very bottom.
It looks great.

I am all for steel as well. I WILL NOT buy a small trailer unless it is steel. 2h is just too light if it's alum.

I love the side ramp model as well.

2DogsFarm
Sep. 22, 2008, 03:55 PM
Bought as a demo in '96 - still looks brand-new and it has lived outside for all 12 years. Aluminum skin on a steel frame. I think it has the WERM flooring (sorry - uneducated consumer here) as I can't raise it to clean.
I just hose it and so far that is enough.

The only feature I'd trade is the ramp - go for a step-up.
Unless 4-Star has changed something since then, the dang ramp weighs about a metric ton, even with the hydraulics it is a PITA to lift.

Mine is a 2H BP walk-through and my 17h+ horse rides perfectly comfortable even with another horse loaded and the divider in place.

ChocoMare
Sep. 22, 2008, 04:04 PM
I have an Equispirit and love it. I would recommend at least checking out the Equispirit website, it may give you some ideas of options you'd like that you may not have considered yet. They also have articles on the site that are helpful.

Ditto. Mr. C'mare and I will be buying one this spring. 2 horse GN with side ramp. XXW, XXT ;)

Stay away from the Lakota's. Cheap and it shows...welds look like they were done by a trained chimpanzee, cheapy padding, etc..... like a tin can on wheels.

gabz
Sep. 22, 2008, 06:57 PM
In case there are people unaware of the connection between EquiSpirit and Hawk trailers... Tom & Neva Scheve designed the Equispirit after working for Hawk (and Trail-Et??) for years. The Equispirit has more padding on the walls and dividers and more safety features than the Hawk. It also costs a little more. The Equispirits are built by Hawk.

monstrpony
Sep. 23, 2008, 09:36 AM
In case there are people unaware of the connection between EquiSpirit and Hawk trailers... Tom & Neva Scheve designed the Equispirit after working for Hawk (and Trail-Et??) for years. The Equispirit has more padding on the walls and dividers and more safety features than the Hawk. It also costs a little more. The Equispirits are built by Hawk.

You know, I just looked at the Equispirit web site and I see no differences between the interior and major mechanics of the Equispirit and my Hawk. There are small mechanical improvements each year (i.e., the way that the breast and butt bars are fastened) that I thought Equispirit has priority on for a few years before they're available to other mfgs, but the basic trailer is quite the same. The name is just a little less expensive with the Hawk. IF there is some major renovation, then there would be an advantage to Equispirit for a few years after that renovation is developed, so looking into that would be worthwhile (ETA I've since heard this is not true--if there's an innovation, Hawk will have it as soon as the others). But in terms of basic, smaller (trailer size, 2-h vs 4+) horse transportation, I believe the Hawk is plenty sound enough for the OP's purposes, and a great value for the price.

bzybee32
Nov. 11, 2008, 04:37 PM
I bought a brand new Eclipse trailer in May. It's beautiful to look at, but leaks everywhere! I'm not talking a little drip here and there, I'm talking water running down the inside walls, soaked shavings in the horse area and puddles in the tack room. I have already had it fixed by Eclipse twice and now it's leaking in two new spots. Not to mention it was like pulling teeth to get Eclipse to fix the piece of junk. They have terrible customer service and even worse craftmanship.

My first choice was a Hawk based on my budget, but I was talked into an Eclipse by the dealer (Action Trailer Sales in CT). She claimed the quality was on par with 4-Star or Jamco - BOY WAS SHE WRONG!!!

AKB
Nov. 11, 2008, 04:46 PM
I love my 7 year old Sundowner. The floor did start to corrode this summer. Sundowner replaced the floor, at no charge. They were pleasant and easy to deal with. We also have a 5 year old Sundowner that we got for my daughter when she was away at school. She has had a few loose screws on the doors and other totally minor maintenance issues, that Sundowner fixed for free, as well as the same floor corrosion this past summer. Sundowner replaced her floor for free, also.

My Sundowner is spacious, and horses ride in it very comfortably. Horses load in it easily because the ramp is not slippery and the trailer is light and roomy. My neighbor has a Featherlite with a ramp that is so slick that her horses have fallen onto their sides while getting in. I fell down her ramp one day. When we trail ride together, we always take my Sundowner because her horse relaxes and doesn't paw when he is in my trailer.

bambam
Nov. 11, 2008, 05:46 PM
. Price seems too good to be true
they are not too good to be true- solid trailers for a reasonable price. I love mine.
My understanding of the primary difference between Equispirit and Hawk is that when Equispirit comes up with a new design or feature or whatever, it will only be available in the Equispirit for the first few years but then it will show up in the Hawk. Other than that, they are not that different and, for me, not different enough to justify the price difference. I have hauled and used my friend's equispirit quite a bit and other than the paint job and the fact that she has an extra wide, I cannot tell the difference.

poltroon
Dec. 19, 2008, 03:03 AM
My first trailer was a 4-star; my current is a Trail-et. The 4-star was owned in partnership with another person, and when I moved away, we both wanted to keep it. I let her buy me out, but I needed another trailer right away, so I had to shop among what I could find on the lots in California that month. Both are two horse goosenecks, extra wide, extra tall, straight load with a 6' dressing room.

I'm satisfied with the Trail-et. It's a good trailer. There are things I prefer about it: larger windows, and I like the way the butt bar system works - although, I am annoyed that they made the butt bar heights adjustable - good! - but made the two adustments Tall and Extra Tall. Ponies can go under the butt bar on the lower setting, and I keep meaning to get someone to add a lower bracket. The ramp is very well built and horses like it.

I miss aspects of the 4-star. I prefer the gooseneck hitch that they use, which just has a simple pin mechanism. I like their simpler latches for the doors. I miss the wonderful lights we added over the dressing room, rear, and internally. I love the hooks we customized in the tack room that made it suit two three-day riders well. I prefer the hold-backs on that trailer. We had a custom added water tank. I prefer the dressing room door on the driver's side. Admittedly, it also cost quite a bit more.

The 5200# axles are the way to go on the 4-star if you're in a large two horse goose or larger. The weight of the longer dressing room and extra wide-extra tall added up and we were getting close to the margin on the 3500# axles, especially if we filled the dressing room. I was pretty skeptical, but that trailer really did want the larger axles, and we had no downside. (The one downside is that the trailer is higher off the ground, which was not a problem for us.) I would also recommend the WERM floor or another option that would be other than bare aluminum. We had ours coated with Line-X.

Our 4-star dealer was fantastic and helped us with a warranty repair. They picked it up at our convenience (3 hrs each way) and returned it to us, freshly acid washed and looking like new.

The 4-star is a great trailer, and I was just musing to myself, putting my trailer away tonight in the rain, that some day I hope to have a wad of money for another one. But, the Trail-et was a great value, sturdy and effective, and I don't regret buying it, especially since I no longer haul every weekend.

poltroon
Dec. 19, 2008, 03:09 AM
he only feature I'd trade is the ramp - go for a step-up.
Unless 4-Star has changed something since then, the dang ramp weighs about a metric ton, even with the hydraulics it is a PITA to lift.

The ramp on my 4-star was not a problem.. Hydraulics? Mine had only a spring. If yours has a spring, the spring can be adjusted to make it easier to lift. You might ask a dealer about it.

GollyGee
Dec. 19, 2008, 09:44 AM
HAWKE all the way. On my second one!! Upgraded to the bigger W/B size 2-h bumper pull w/ dressingroom. Holds their value exceptionally well. You hardly ever see one for re-sale (unlike sundowner). Company felxible w/ customizing and if you are near a Horse-Expo you can buy one right off the floor and save.
my 1st one was a 2-horse bumper w/ some exra's but no dressing room. Got nearly all my $ back @ trade-in 5yrs later and dealer re-sold in 1 day. Still see it on the road.
Everyone I recommended to to buys one!!!!

MunchkinsMom
Dec. 19, 2008, 09:19 PM
I just bought a new 2009 all-aluminum two horse Shadow Stablemate BP, straight load, ramp, dressing room. I traded in a 16 year old Keifer all steel 2 horse BP ramp load with DR, that had served me well, but was rusting at all the weld joints, and really could use a paint job, and the DR was leaking all over the place.

I really wanted the Eby, but no dealers in my area. On a whim I stopped by the Shadow dealer here in town, and was impressed with the trailer, construction, and the fact that the factory is here in town, so no issue if I need any warranty work done. And the price was very reasonable.

It hauls great with my 2500HD, both empty and with horses in it. The ramp I can lift with one hand, and it has some really good material on it that is not slippery at all, sort of like really stiff nylon carpet, or the hook side of velcro (if that makes sense). It's a pain to try to sweep it, but it hoses clean nicely.

Here's a link to their website if you are interested:

http://www.shadowtrailer.net/index.php

The financing was easy, and I figure at my age (and the fact that I keep things for a looooongg time) that this might be the last trailer I ever have to buy.

The 4-stars are nice, but overpriced, and I didn't like some of the latches and dividers in comparison to other brands like the Eby and Shadow.