Shared recreational trails and people scared by horses.

[CatOnLap]

Just needing to vent.

I live on a large recreational trail system shared by hikers, dogwalkers, bikers and riders. I rarely have any problem with sharing the trail- we have etiquette ( keep to the right, call out before approaching from behind, etc) I ride daily on the local system and walk my dogs daily on it as well. I pick my dog poop up, and once a week or so, when walking the dogs, I carry my manure fork and scoop all the horse and dog poop I encounter off the trails I am walking. I am part of the volunteer party that created and improved the trails and regularly take part in clearing overgrown blackberries and fallen trees from the trails. So I am a responsible trail user, OK?

Yesterday, on my quiet trail horse, alone, I came round a corner to a narrow bridge being guarded by a woman with two large dogs on leads. They were obviously not in control and were pulling her. As soon as they saw my horse, they were lungeing and pulling the woman forward across the bridge. I backed my horse off about 15 feet to give her room to clear the bridge and pass me (8 foot wide trail, I was stopped at the extreme edge and my horse stood 4-square, motionless. She grabbed the side of the bridge to stabilize herself, yanked on the choke chains and finally got the dogs stopped...on the bridge, which is about 5 feet wide. Hence "guarding". I waited a fair long minute. She finally said "Well, come past. What are you waiting for?" She shouted rather angrily. I politely told her that I could not persuade my horse to go by her two small wolves on the narrow bridge ( yeah I said "small wolves") and asked her to proceed past me on the trail while we stood still.

"Wolves? Are you CRAZY? These are DOGS! You don't OWN the trail you know! You riders are all alike. You leave all that shit around and then you expect ME to get out of the way! YOU GET OUT OF MY WAY!"

So I did as she asked. I backed my horse about another 20 feet up the trail to where there was a wider spot, leaving her a good 10 feet of trail width to get by, and put my horse into the bush to do it! She continued to yell at me "Don't you look at ME that way!" Now, I wasn't aware that I was doing anything but concentrating on backing up all that way, which is a pretty big thing to ask my horse who hasn't ever had to back up more than her own length before. I took a deep breath before answering, because by now, other people were waiting for her to clear the bridge too and I didn't need an audience "helping" the situation.

"Look, you have your own paranoid interpretation of these events here, lady. I have done exactly as you asked, getting out of your way when YOU are the one blocking the trail. Your dogs are not trained, they are acting just like wolves, and should not be out on the trail menacing other users." .

By this time she was passing me, with the big dogs still lunging at my horse.

She continued to yell insults especially about horse manure, and I quietly said to her as she passed: "Where are the poop bags for those two big dogs? I clean this trail regularly. I wonder if yours are the ones leaving the big stinking messes."

And I turned and walked off across the bridge.

Some people suck. The other 2 dozen or so trail users I met that day were great, friendly, polite, cooperative. I can only surmise that this one was terrified of horses and reacted just like her dogs, in an aggressive and threatening manner.

[Rachel L]

Feel sorry for her. She was obviously having a very bad day. You rock for being such a good trail user.

[CatOnLap]

yes, I know, but I really wanted for my horse to turn about and poop on HER! I guess it showed in my face huh?

[riverbell93]

Not sure why you're venting online, it seems like you got it all out of your system during the actual incident.

[jazzrider]

Some people are just grumpy :rolleyes:. No, not Riverbell -- the dog walker! :winkgrin:

I'm sure she was annoyed that she couldn't control her stupid dogs. Walking them is probably stressful -- if that's the way they are. I used to babysit a friend's dog that was like that. I literally had to sneak around with him, trying to avoid encounters. She didn't have to be so rude about to you though, but whatever. If I were you I'd just steer clear of her in the future. Folks like that can get horses kicked off multi-use trails, if they're in the mood to get nasty.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

The woman was embarrassed at her inability to control her dogs and took it out on you. I've seen dog handlers do far worse things at trials when their dogs don't do as they're told!:eek: Your demonstrated control of your far larger animal probably just fanned the flames of her anger at her dogs, which got misdirected at you.

Either that, or the woman knew she couldn't control her beasts and was afraid she'd get hurt. Adrenaline is what fuels most road rage, I'm told.

But you know what? I'd rather encounter a couple of wolves any day than two ill-mannered canines, especially if they are travelling with a loud-mouthed broad like the one you describe. Not that wolves generally travel with loud-mouthed broads - normally they are more careful than that about the company they keep.:yes:

[GB Trail Rider]

You did everything right Catonlap. You probably won't see that psycho again since she knows she can not control her dogs and if they got loose and hurt someone she would be in deep trouble. This is a perfect example of why I no longer ride in public parks....I have no patience for anti horse people.

[CatOnLap]

Not that wolves generally travel with loud-mouthed broads - normally they are more careful than that about the company they keep
thanks for that! Made my day. :lol

[asbjockey]

Just wanted to add that in my neck of the woods, riders have the right-of-way and bike riders, hikers, etc are to yield to them. She probably could have been kicked off the trails or gotten a ticket for not having her dogs under control.

Personally, I would have ridden past. My gelding tolerates dogs - but not ones that pester him. He would have been chasing THEM!

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

thanks for that! Made my day. :lol

I'm glad.:) But I suppose I should admit to being blatantly self-serving, since a wolf hybrid chose to keep company with me for thirteen years. And certainly I'm not a loud-mouthed broad (no matter what opposing counsel says some days!):lol:

My wolf-friend liked horses, but I never could trust him around either bicycles or children.:eek: Which is partly why I think wolf hybrids are a bad idea - I loved mine, but I would never have bred him, we just lived together. Anyway. Not horse-related.:no:

Unlike your story.:) What a good horse you have, to back up so far!:cool: The little paint horse will do it, but there's a catch - he backs up twice as far as I ask. I think it's his way of making sure I don't get carried away with myself.:lol:

[SuperSTB]

I come across this often actually. I live in a horse community- at least 50 percent of the homes have horses if not more. There is a designated horse path around the sub-division plus road signs to vehicles that horses are on the road. For the most part all is fine. But you get the occasional idiot who buys a house is a KNOWN horse community and then bitches about it.

In So Cal there is certainly a stray pet population of many dogs. Bob Barker wasn't tooting his horn on his PSA on the Price Is Right! We have our fair share of dumbass dog owners.

Since I drive- I can't access the perimeter trail and do my driving on the street. My horses are very dog savvy. Just a couple weeks ago while driving down the street adjacent to mine- this woman has her 2 dogs running around with out leashes. One dog runs yapping right under my horse. I immediately halt my horse and wait while the woman calls her dog. She is screaming at her dog and giving me dirty looks- as though it's my fault her dog is darting in and out under horse AND cart. At first I thought she was just mad at the dog but she mumbled something about 'barking at a stupid horse'. I said quite loudly- "I'm very sorry but it's very possible that my horse will kick your dog and I can be no more responsible than if your dog ran under a moving car." She didn't like that comment but I'm pretty sure her hubby chuckled a bit :)

Another incident- sans horses- was on my way back couple miles from home, I had 2 of my dogs in the backseat of the car. My dogs are not allowed to put their heads out the window but the windows are open enough for a snout to stick out a wee bit. As I slowed to a stop sign this man was walking his dog on the other side of the street- the dog saw the car and just went straight at the door. My dogs didn't even bark or growl (too happy with a car ride to bother) but this dog went full force body slam into the car. I couldn't believe it. It didn't look like the dog was going to stop (slamming and lunging at the car) so I drove off. I shudder to think if I was driving the horse.

[Bank of Dad]

Yesterday we were on a public trail, where most all the bike riders stopped for my neurotic arab. Except almost on the way back, where this jerk wouldn't stop, tried to pass us with squeeky brakes, ignored my plunging horse, and just sqeeked the brakes more. He said we shouldn't be there if we couldn't ride and my friend lost it, told him he was out of line, horses had right of way and he should go right in the adjacent office and check it out if he didn't believe her. I think that shut him up, I should have just let the arab run him over.

When we went in the office to check it out, they said that they actually didn't have any policy, but ours was a good idea!

[pandorasboxx]

In my neck of the woods, it is horseback riders who have the right of way over bikes and hikers and it is spelled out very clearly on the posted signs at each trail-head. I'm surprised it isn't a universal rule.

You are a much more restrained and nicer person than me. I'd be liable to let loose with a string of invectives and dire promises if someone were to be so incredibly asinine. Luckily, I haven't met deliberately rude or outrageous people on the trails. Kudos for your very civil restraint.

I did once run into some yahoos who obviously hadn't ridden their poor gaited horses all winter and were taking the opportunity to show off and run them up on me several times on a pleasant spring morn. I politely moved off the trail to let them pass, they scrambled past and then a few turns later their huffing horses were blocking the trails. They waved me past, rinse, lather and repeat. The third time I just put my very well conditioned at the time endurance mare into second gear. That was the last I saw them though I did hear distance snatches of conversation like they were hellbent for leather trying to catch me. I chuckled as it was never going to happen in this lifetime.

[saddleup]

Horses have the right of way here, too...posted at every trailhead.

That said, we don't assert that right of way if someone clearly doesn't know what they're doing out in the great outdoors. We do occasionally run into people who don't have control of their dogs, and it's a real pain and potentially dangerous situation every time. I don't know what people are thinking sometimes.

Sorry you had such a bad experience.

[Ibex]

Unfortunatly there are enough idiot riders out there to give the good ones a bad rap :no:

We have a local park with a ton of trails, and for every responsible rider, there's someone doing something just plain dumb, whether it it galloping up a shared trail with blind corners, jumping in the closed XC course, whatever. My favourite was the guy we came across hacking with just a neck strap thing. Nothing on the horse's head. Lovely to see how well he rode, but a little tough if he got unloaded and the horse got loose...

[ReSomething]

Sounds like you got a lot of fallout from her own inability to control the dogs. She probably had to hang on to that railing or she was going to get dragged on her face for a mile. Too bad for her she had to make an a$$ out of herself in front of the other trail users. I wouldn't have told her that they were "wolves", just bad mannered, out of control and potentially going to jump up on me and mine if I got too close. 'Ma'am, are you going to pay for my costs if those dogs should injure my horse or myself? Didn't think so. I'll just stay right here well out of your way while you drag the hounds of Satan the He!! out of here.'

[gabz]

Here you go. Make one of these signs and carry it with you. grrrrr....

http://www.racemtbikes.com/images/YieldSSS.jpg
from this site:
http://www.racemtb.com/TrailEtqt.html

OUt of control dogs do not belong in public places. A co-worker is healing after his collar bone was smashed in a bike accident. He was riding with his kids - all had helmets on - when a guy who had his dog on one of those free-wheeling leases was checking his mail... So of course when the bikes went by, the dog rushed the bikes and the leash allowed the dog to do so. grrrrrr.... The co-worker is very glad it was him and not either of his kids that the dog tangled with.

In the past, when road riding and loose dogs came out, I ALWAYS turned my horse towards the dog and if necessary - chased the dog back to its property.

I attended a talk by a professor from Clemson University. This was 10 years ago when the early concepts of shared trail use were being developed. He said that all horse trail riders need to use some common sense along with the "rules"... for instance, if you see a person with a stroller and there is space, it's usually easier for the horse to step off the trail. I think that the mountain biking community, for the most part, has been very good about learning to live with horses. They don't like it, but they are more educated than the average person walking the trail.

[CatOnLap]

'Ma'am, are you going to pay for my costs if those dogs should injure my horse or myself? Didn't think so. I'll just stay right here well out of your way while you drag the hounds of Satan the He!! out of here.'
I definitely need you for my social skilz coach! LOL.

GABZ, thanks a heap for the sign I am going to print some of those up and tape them up on the trailheads! It is not an accepted rule here that horses have the R.O.W., generally, people believe that pedestrians have it, and there are some bikers... well never mind. Its not that riders necessarily WANT to have the right of way and most times we yield to every other user on the trail, but sometimes, like the neurotic arab (my horses have been known to channel this spirit) giving the horse the right of way is the only safe thing to do for everyone concerned.

[Auventera Two]

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/parks/trails/Etiquette.pdf

The WI DNR's site has a document posted saying that all other trail users are to yield to riders on horseback. The rule is even posted on some of our trails here.

I don't think I've ever encountered anyone on the trails that didn't yield for my horse. I've even had bikers get off and walk their bikes past the horse.

[gabz]

I definitely need you for my social skilz coach! LOL.

GABZ, thanks a heap for the sign I am going to print some of those up and tape them up on the trailheads! It is not an accepted rule here that horses have the R.O.W., generally, people believe that pedestrians have it, and there are some bikers... well never mind. Its not that riders necessarily WANT to have the right of way and most times we yield to every other user on the trail, but sometimes, like the neurotic arab (my horses have been known to channel this spirit) giving the horse the right of way is the only safe thing to do for everyone concerned.

Ack... wait while I find you the correct ones. Those are modified for that group of mountain bikers.. (SSS) ... although it does help.
Here is the original... http://www.mylongleaftrace.com/Archives/Arch2001/Nov5/Yield.jpg

Get in touch with local agencies and see if they can have the signs made as weatherproof ones on the proper sign posts.

[tkhawk]

Most parks in my state usually have signs hikers yield to horseback riders and bikers yield to everybody else . Most bikers I have met are pretty decent-the only ones I have had a few issues are the ones with their ipods on and are so out of touch with everything around them-it is more not being aware of their surroundings..

This woman though just seemed terrified of her dogs behaviour and so instead I think decided to play the game of "The best defense is an offense " and launched into you hoping you would be frightned off. It didn't work:lol:!!

[ruffiannyc]

>>Not that wolves generally travel with loud-mouthed broads - normally they are more careful than that about the company they keep.<<

:lol: a big belly-ache!

But seriously, I don't know why some dog owners take on more than they can handle. Two big dogs + one scared tense woman is a disaster waiting to happen. She probably has those dogs to make her self feel more safe and then she becomes a danger to everyone and everything else because she obviously can't control them.

Super STB, I love your warning! :)
<< "I'm very sorry but it's very possible that my horse will kick your dog and I can be no more responsible than if your dog ran under a moving car." >>

[katarine]

crazy, isn't it? Most peeps I've encountered are either clueless or perfect...but aggressive? LOL I wish my natural reaction was like my friend Lynn's...she just bursts out laughing when people are inappropriate ;) she just finds it humorous ;)

Glad everyone survived LOL