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Dan
Sep. 3, 2008, 08:22 AM
Are the dressage judges really supposed to be talking during the intermission????

Just had time to look over my photos from the event.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2824905568_0d33b1e990_b.jpg

ridgeback
Sep. 3, 2008, 08:25 AM
Shows like the Quarter Horse congress judges aren't even allowed to speak to each other after that days showing is over...Maybe the dressage world should adopt that rule.:D Should they be talking during any part of the show/weekend of shows....NO but that is the problem IMHO with dressage.

pcwertb
Sep. 3, 2008, 08:27 AM
Every dressage show I have worked, the judges gab during every break.

freestyle2music
Sep. 3, 2008, 08:43 AM
Every dressage show I have worked, the judges gab during every break.


Even during the test and between the tests they signal each other. It's a team of judges you know. And a good head of the judges make this a democratic process, and hardly never decides by him or herself that a combination receives the bell because of lameness. Specially in this last case they need backup from a judge at the longside of the arena.

Theo

canyonoak
Sep. 3, 2008, 10:20 AM
I wish the really good judges (and yes there are a few) would talk MORE to the other judges.

Maybe they could instill more of a sense of decency, of generosity of spirit, of fair playing field, of sympathy and understanding.

Maybe a little bit more of the superior judges' experience and knowledge could pervade the score sheet.

ANd I am not just talking about the Olympics.

freestyle2music
Sep. 3, 2008, 10:51 AM
I wish the really good judges (and yes there are a few) would talk MORE to the other judges.

Maybe they could instill more of a sense of decency, of generosity of spirit, of fair playing field, of sympathy and understanding.

Maybe a little bit more of the superior judges' experience and knowledge could pervade the score sheet.

ANd I am not just talking about the Olympics.

I know what you mean, and I also know that this is a ongoing project for the FEI. New judges are guided by the more experienced judges during 10-20 competitions. However this work is mostly done by her royal highness MW. But if this is good for the future :confused:

Pat
Sep. 4, 2008, 08:53 AM
I don't see a problem. This isn't Congress, it's dressage. The way a score for an individual movement is chosen is subjective, but the final score is a black and white number. It's not like a hunter round where you could say that a group stood together and compared cards and THEN picked the winners. Plus, I believe that the scores were made public in real time. If somebody wanted to 'make an adjustment' to 'even out' a final score due to a score they didn't like.... Well, yeah, that wouldn't be hard and they didn't need to open thier mouth either.

They were chosen months in advance, if somebody *really* wanted to do something that would skew the final outcome they wouldn't have waited until the breaks between rides at the actual event.

I'm a big conspiracy theorist myself, but I just don't see one living here.

ridgeback
Sep. 4, 2008, 09:00 AM
I suppose we really have no idea what they are doing. They could have talked before the show and are just following up with the plan during the breaks:D:lol:

arena run
Sep. 4, 2008, 10:42 AM
Here's the likely chatting...

*chew, chew, chew*
"Did you get the pastrami on rye or on white?"
*smack smack*

"Oh, I got mine on white. Can't stand all those little seeds in the rye... makes my divaticilitis act up."
*slurp, slurrrp*

*pause in eating*
"Oh yeah, I'd forgotten 'bout that week you spent in the hospital last year... You know, *sluck, chew, slurp* my MIL had that and was bleeding from her rectum for two solid days before they figured it out."

"Rough"
*munch, munch, munch*

*slurp, hiccup*
"Hey, did ya'll see that gorgeous bay standing over by the in gate?"
*chew, chew*
"Yeah, the one w/the rear sock. Reminds me SO much of my old Cammy."

"Oh yeah, how is she, btw? Still out on pasture board or did you ever get that stall ready at your house?"
*burp*

And so forth and so on.

:) sylvia

Bronte
Sep. 4, 2008, 10:53 AM
Yes, of course judges talk to each other. They are supposed to. The Chair of the Jury will discuss scores with the group.

Only in America is there this paranoia about judges talking to people (and possible conflict of interest). It's actually very insulting.

In Europe, not only do judges talk to each other, but heaven help us, they will even have a beer with a competitor and talk to them!

Think about it. If you can't explain your score over a beer to a rider, you have no business handing them out!!:eek:

ridgeback
Sep. 4, 2008, 11:03 AM
Yes, of course judges talk to each other. They are supposed to. The Chair of the Jury will discuss scores with the group.

Only in America is there this paranoia about judges talking to people (and possible conflict of interest). It's actually very insulting.

In Europe, not only do judges talk to each other, but heaven help us, they will even have a beer with a competitor and talk to them!

Think about it. If you can't explain your score over a beer to a rider, you have no business handing them out!!:eek:

Insulting:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Mozart
Sep. 4, 2008, 03:57 PM
There is frequent complaint about score disparity. I think judges should talk to each other (and to competitors) more often.

akrogirl
Sep. 4, 2008, 05:58 PM
I don't see a problem with judges talking after all the riders have gone. However, talking about scores during a round carries the potential for affecting the scores given by the judges to later riders, intentional or not, and should be a no-no.

In the same way, in my other sport, the Chief Judge can review possible points of contention and any recent changes in the judging criteria before the start of a round, and give his or her input on the scoring at the end of the round after all the competitors have gone, but may not say anything to affect the scoring during the round.

And yes, I agree that the judges should be able to explain and justify their scores to the competitors :-)

slc2
Sep. 4, 2008, 07:10 PM
I don't think they should have to justify their scores to many of the competitors, who don't understand how dressage is judged and don't want to know, they just want to complain because they didn't win. It's like having criminals critique the judges' sentences; that needs to be done by a more disinterested party.


--SWEDED

freestyle2music
Sep. 5, 2008, 10:08 AM
I don't think they should have to justify their scores to many of the competitors, who don't understand how dressage is judged and don't want to know, they just want to complain because they didn't win. It's like having criminals critique the judges' sentences; that needs to be done by a more disinterested party.


--SWEDED

I know from my own experience and my clients, that it is a relieve to talk with the judges after a test. Many unwritten rules are explained by the judges to the riders. I have made so many films about judge-clinics and I learned a lot by attending them. Did you know that the judges want to see three canter strides to come back from the extended canter to working canter not more and not less etc...etc... The Dutch Ponie-, Junior- or Youngriders- team will never go to a European championships without some judgeclinics before department. Trully I think you can't do without these tips and tricks from the judges.

Theo

Bethe Mounce
Sep. 5, 2008, 12:07 PM
I guess I will never quite understand why it might be misconstrued as a "bad" thing for judges to "chat" during intermission of a dressage show. For all we know, they were chatting about the weather, the food or who knows what. I loved the previous post that gave an example about what they could have been talking about.

As far as riders being able to talk to judges; I never have understood why not. I guess, because most of my horseshow career was spent across the pond, and we all talked--riders, judges, coaches--I never gave it a second thought not to speak to a judge here.

I have never seen any rule that says riders are not allowed, it seems to be an unspoken rule....