Euthanasia in Horse Rescues

[evesadopter]

I think that if horse rescues are going to euthanize their horses, it should be because the horse is in extreme pain/suffering, or if the horse has extreme aggression issues that puts people working with it in danger.
Rescues, IMO, shouldn't put their horses down to make space for new horses. That would make them a horse shelter, not a horse rescue. IMO, once a horse is taken in by a rescue, that horse is safe, until it finds a home. If for some reason the horse can't find a home, it should stay at the rescue as a permanent resident, or it should be taken to a sanctuary where it can live out the rest of its life. It shouldn't be put down. I also don't think that rescues should put horses down that have training issues. Like if a horse is really green undersaddle, or if it is pushy on the ground, the horse should be trained or taken to a facility that can properly train the horse. A horse with training issues shouldn't get put down.
Under what circumstances do you think a horse at a rescue should get euthanized?

[county]

So why should anyone do things the way you would do them? I mean if thats how you feel then by all means do it that way but the world has no reason to feel the same way and being differant hardly makes someone else wrong.

[mayhew]

Fair enough. Now where is the money supposed to come from for all of these horses that rescues can't find homes for?

[Little Valkyrie]

If you owned a rescue and you had to choose between rescuing a horse that could definatly be rehomed, but without you as the middleman, would go to slaughter (or worse), or a horse that would never be re-homed, how can you deny the one that has a chance of an excellent life that hope. IMO, in the world in which horses exist today, the ones who have the best chance of being rehomed as useful parters should be given the preference over horses who are too far gone in any sense to be rehabilitated.

[BuddyRoo]

You've been drinking the "idealist" kool-aid.

Of course it would be lovely if rescues could take on only the horses with a chance....rehab 'em, rehome 'em. But ya know what? People dump all sorts of horses and guess what? We...us....WE are the ones that have to absorb them.

Don't know about you, but I can't afford another horse right now. I'm all stocked up. So in lieu of a horse getting a good home and good care? I'm all for euthing. If you can't find a home for them, isn't it better to euth than to let them starve or suffer?

[Dinah-do]

Who is going to do the training? If the horse is difficult the horse is going to need the services of a very good trainer. Good trainers are already busy. Who will cough up the $? Keeping a horse for the rest of its life is costly. Calling a rescue a shelter or the other way around does not change the fact that not all horses have a good place in this world. and there is no shortage of horses looking for a home. There are worse things than euthanasia - lots worse.

[Nezzy]

i would prefer euthanasia to the horse suffering. And it's not cheap. It's not like the rescues WANT to just go around killing horses. It's not like that. The good rescues offer a valuable service and what those people go thru is extremely emotional.

[BeastieSlave]

This petition is protesting against Days End Farm? Hmmmm.....
Can you be a bit more specific about what exactly is happening?

[Liberty]

So, evesadopter, what have you done to help the urgent needs of all the many horses in need of good homes? Have you ever visited the horse rescue you're now protesting to see, firsthand, what you think you're talking about?

IMO, Days End Rescue is one of the honestly good ones out there, and there are many that are anything but good. In fact, they've responded to requests for help with Hurricane Gustavo and are currently on standby to send more reinforcements, if necessary:
http://www.defhr.org/press/gustav.htm

Here's their euthanasia policy, which I find very sensible and responsible:
http://www.defhr.org/Euthanasiapolicy.htm

In closing, I think your discontent and efforts would be better directed towards those out there who actively abuse horses, not those who are truly making a difference and giving horses that last chance at a good life.

[evesadopter]

This petition is protesting against Days End Farm? Hmmmm.....
Can you be a bit more specific about what exactly is happening?

Sorry I haven't been responding!!

Yeah DEFHR is making room for new horses to come in, so they are euthanizing healthy, horses that could (if given time) find a home. One horse is a 20year old gelding they are putting him down because he's too old and because he can't find a home fast enough. They aren't even trying to find another sanctuary that could possibly take him in.

Another pony was a Chincoteague pony, she was sent to the wrong home and received little to no training there. She injured her rider and was sent back to the rescue. After 3 weeks she was euthanized. She was young and was green. The rescue sent her to the wrong home, and the pony suffered for it.

We're protesting to try and get the rescue to change their euthanasia policy, to save the current DEFHR residents.

[BeastieSlave]

I saw Days End in action in Mississippi after Katrina. They sure looked like 'good guys' to me and I know for a fact that they put out a lot of their own money to be there and help out!

I looked at their euthanasia policy and I think it sounds very reasonable too. I didn't see anything that made me think they are/were "euthanizing their horses because they are too old and lack training". What specifically would you change about their policy?

[evesadopter]

So, evesadopter, what have you done to help the urgent needs of all the many horses in need of good homes? Have you ever visited the horse rescue you're now protesting to see, firsthand, what you think you're talking about?

IMO, Days End Rescue is one of the honestly good ones out there, and there are many that are anything but good. In fact, they've responded to requests for help with Hurricane Gustavo and are currently on standby to send more reinforcements, if necessary:
http://www.defhr.org/press/gustav.htm

Here's their euthanasia policy, which I find very sensible and responsible:
http://www.defhr.org/Euthanasiapolicy.htm

In closing, I think your discontent and efforts would be better directed towards those out there who actively abuse horses, not those who are truly making a difference and giving horses that last chance at a good life.

I believe that DEFHR was once a great rescue that had horses as the first priority, but now I'm not sure what their goals are.

They are denying to the public that they have NEVER changed their policy, however their policy did in fact change, and I have it in writing.

I've volunteered at DEFHR for 8 years, and I left. I couldn't stand to watch them euthanize horses that were healthy. I knew every horse very well that they euthanized, and I don't think any of them should've been.

I keep telling people that maybe I'm just so upset about it because my horse would've been euthanized. I recently adopted a horse from there that has a huge scar on her leg, she was adopted/returned 3 times, and is 17 years old. 3 perfect reasons to euthanize her.

One horse is still alive that has mental issues. She tried to jump a 4ft fence TWICE with her riders, and she is completely unpredictable on the ground AND in the saddle. She almost killed someone, but thankfully only broke their collar bone. She is still living, but the little sweet Chincoteague pony is dead. :(

[Albion]

Genuine question - why should horse rescues be different from other animal rescues out there? Dog and cat rescues can't - and don't - keep all animals until they find a home, and dogs and cats are a lot easier and cheaper to keep than equines.

Seems like the OP would scream bloody murder if a horse rescue had the same policy the (very good) dog rescue I worked with did - we only took the dogs that had the BEST chance of adoption. Needless to say, that left a lot of (healthy) dogs still at the shelter waiting for their pink shot. Was it sad? Yes. Did we have room for all of them? No. Did we want to give foster spaces to animals that had the highest chance of going on to be adopted and moving to new families? You betcha. We occasionally wound up with a 'special' case, but many of our dogs were pulled from shelters that weren't able to adopt the breed out - so we had our pick of rescue animals. Putting months of TLC into a dog to get it adoptable wasn't an issue, but if that dog didn't get adopted, that meant one less space for an adoptable dog. It's a tough line to walk. Have you ever had to do it for yourself? It IS sad. But we quite literally cannot save them all - I don't care if you're talking horses, dogs, whatever.

Healthy does not equal adoptable. Would've been great if some wonderful person had bankrolled us so that we could've saved all of them, but that didn't happen.

[BuddyRoo]

I understand your emotional response. I'm not a cold hearted BIA...but I AM a realist.

If asshats would quit pawning off their middle to late aged horses and do the right thing themselves, then rescues wouldn't be in the position to make tough choices.

But what it comes down to is who is most likely to be adopted. A younger horse has much better odds than one over the age of say 12. I know lots of people who have looked at horses at rescues when ready to shop....but they're not interested in taking on a 15, 17 or 20 YO horse when they know they can only buy one. Many of the folks I know who will take a rescue are ones who are prepared to put the training on the horse and then sell....projects.

Hard to take a project horse at age 17 and turn it into a jumper and make money.

At the end of the day, the real jerks are the ones sending their middle aged horses down the line.

[Liberty]

evesadopter,

From your website (in bold):

Un-adoptable doesn't exist. NO HORSE is un-adoptable. Someone out there will ALWAYS want a horse that no one else seems to want.

Really? What are you doing to help find those adopters that you just KNOW are out there?

We're not giving up on Mountain. Someone SOMEWHERE wants this horse, and perhaps his friend Gatsby.

Great, so what are you actively doing to help Mountain and Gatsby? Or the others you've mentioned too. IMO, posting YouTube videos and launching a protest petition aren't the best uses of your time and effort to help find those horses new homes.

Mountain is still alive, and so is Gatsby (last time we heard). If someone can help them, it would be nice!

Again, what are you, specifically, doing to help?

[eqsiu]

I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with a rescue employing euthanasia. If the horse has been there for a year and not rehomed? Fine. If there is something wrong that will make rehoming hard? Fine. Whatever. There are much worse things that can happen to a horse than euthanasia. If you have an issue, open your own rescue and run it the way you want.

[Donnalynn]

One horse is still alive that has mental issues. She tried to jump a 4ft fence TWICE with her riders, and she is completely unpredictable on the ground AND in the saddle. She almost killed someone, but thankfully only broke their collar bone. She is still living, but the little sweet Chincoteague pony is dead. :(

Was this "someone" who was almost killed someone that you love? How could you justify risking a human life with that horse? In fact, even the courts call that a 'dangerous predisposition' and any rescue who allows volunteers to handle a horse like that risks everything in doing so.

I know the problem lies in people who pass along horses without taking their responsibility as owners seriously enough to ALWAYS do the right thing for the horse. In this 'throw away' society, it is easy to forget that responsibility often includes making hard choices.

Rescues can't perform miracles. More's the pity.

[kookicat]

You've been drinking the "idealist" kool-aid.

Of course it would be lovely if rescues could take on only the horses with a chance....rehab 'em, rehome 'em. But ya know what? People dump all sorts of horses and guess what? We...us....WE are the ones that have to absorb them.

Don't know about you, but I can't afford another horse right now. I'm all stocked up. So in lieu of a horse getting a good home and good care? I'm all for euthing. If you can't find a home for them, isn't it better to euth than to let them starve or suffer?

Very much agree with all of the above. :yes:

[evesadopter]

evesadopter,

From your website (in bold):

Un-adoptable doesn't exist. NO HORSE is un-adoptable. Someone out there will ALWAYS want a horse that no one else seems to want.

Really? What are you doing to help find those adopters that you just KNOW are out there?

We're not giving up on Mountain. Someone SOMEWHERE wants this horse, and perhaps his friend Gatsby.

Great, so what are you actively doing to help Mountain and Gatsby? Or the others you've mentioned too. IMO, posting YouTube videos and launching a protest petition aren't the best uses of your time and effort to help find those horses new homes.

Mountain is still alive, and so is Gatsby (last time we heard). If someone can help them, it would be nice!

Again, what are you, specifically, doing to help?

Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses.

I forgot to mention that DEFHR used to have a smaller farm that was like 17 acres, now they have a BIGGER facility and have 30-40 acres. At the smaller farm, DEFHR had 50 horses on it, really overcrowded. Now they have a bigger facility and have 65 horses on it....and their putting horses down because they have no space? :confused:

[Albion]

Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses.

I forgot to mention that DEFHR used to have a smaller farm that was like 17 acres, now they have a BIGGER facility and have 30-40 acres. At the smaller farm, DEFHR had 50 horses on it, really overcrowded. Now they have a bigger facility and have 65 horses on it....and their putting horses down because they have no space? :confused:

Are YOU bankrolling the rescue? Are you OFFERING to bankroll the rescue? There's more to rescuing animals than SPACE.

If you can do it better, start your own rescue. Then you can deal with the time, money, and space crunch and show us all how it's done. :)

Again ... what makes a horse different than the thousands and thousands of healthy (and infinitely more adoptable than an 'aged' horse) dogs and cats put down in shelters all over the US every week?

PS: Unadoptable does exist. You must not have been paying very much attention in those eight years of volunteering if those rose colored glasses are still firmly over your eyes.

[MistyBlue]

I don't think enough rescues euthanize hard to adopt horses. Go ahead and flame me if you like...I'm a strong supporter of rescues (financially) but will not donate to any rescue who warehouses unadoptable horses. I also will not donate to any rescue who will use funds for an expensive operation for a rescue...this country is literally flooded with healthy, sane animals that need the second chance too and a rescue by definition should rescue and rehome as many as possible and not pick and choose expensive, unwanted cases because they tug at heart strings. You get into being a rescue because of your heart...you *have* to run it with your head as a business otherwise you will not be helping more than a very select few. IMO, that's absolutely ridiculous. It's a numbers business if it's going to be succesful.

[Paragon]

Sorry guys, I just don't think that humane euthanasia is a bad thing.

Horses don't conceptualize life like we do. Our attachment is not theirs. There is nothing wrong with a quick end.

[arena run]

Eavesdropper, there's just not realistic way that every horse can be saved. IT's just not gonna happen.

Those that have a better chance usurp those that don't.

Rescues do not have ifinite funds. Their money is very finite. Choices have to be made.

If you want to be the one making the choice create, and fund, your own resuce.

If you can't do that then support the rescue you're talking about w/enough funds to take care of those horses you don't want to see put down.

Or... suck it up and realize that every horse can't live indefinately in this imperfect world. sylvia

[Liberty]

Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses.

Wonderful! So, why are they still being touted on your website and video as in danger of being euthed if numerous homes for them have been found?

[evesadopter]

Are YOU bankrolling the rescue? Are you OFFERING to bankroll the rescue? There's more to rescuing animals than SPACE.

If you can do it better, start your own rescue. Then you can deal with the time, money, and space crunch and show us all how it's done. :)

Again ... what makes a horse different than the thousands and thousands of healthy (and infinitely more adoptable than an 'aged' horse) dogs and cats put down in shelters all over the US every week?

PS: Unadoptable does exist. You must not have been paying very much attention in those eight years of volunteering if those rose colored glasses are still firmly over your eyes.

DEFHR has spent $2400 on euthanasias. They have the funds to take care of these animals. $2400 could've been spent on food, training, etc.

I support shelters, but shelters are different than rescues. Rescues don't euthanize their animals to make space for more. I worked with a GSD rescue a while back and they never euthanized their dogs, ever.

[Louise]

It would be wonderful if there could be a forever home for every horse that ends up in a rescue. But, realistically, it doesn't happen. For all the reasons that have been given above, sometimes horses have to be euthanized, at every rescue. If not, what happens when the next group of horses that need rescuing comes along, and all the rescues are full of unadobtables? Do they, figuratively, stand outside the gates, waiting and suffering?

You have the gumption to be devoting time and energy to this idealistic cause of yours. Sounds like you have plenty of energy and drive. Your time, however could be much better spent campaigning to help Day's End, which is one of the premier rescue organizations in the United States, rather than discrediting it. You are not doing them, or all of the horses that they help any good.

[BeastieSlave]

I don't think enough rescues euthanize hard to adopt horses. Go ahead and flame me if you like...I'm a strong supporter of rescues (financially) but will not donate to any rescue who warehouses unadoptable horses. I also will not donate to any rescue who will use funds for an expensive operation for a rescue...this country is literally flooded with healthy, sane animals that need the second chance too and a rescue by definition should rescue and rehome as many as possible and not pick and choose expensive, unwanted cases because they tug at heart strings. You get into being a rescue because of your heart...you *have* to run it with your head as a business otherwise you will not be helping more than a very select few. IMO, that's absolutely ridiculous. It's a numbers business if it's going to be succesful.

Go look at the Giveaways forum here. People are having trouble giving away healthy useful horses.... It's hard to find homes for the good ones and really hard to find homes for the ones with issues. There just aren't that many homes. Rescues need to be responsible with the funds they get - especially in the current climate.

[Beverley]

Sorry guys, I just don't think that humane euthanasia is a bad thing.

Horses don't conceptualize life like we do. Our attachment is not theirs. There is nothing wrong with a quick end.

I'm with Paragon on this one. Euthanasia is sad, but it's not cruel. I frankly am tired of bleeding hearts who think that euthanasia is a 'bad' option for an unwanted horse- even if the horse is perfectly healthy. Euthanasia is far preferable than the treatment some 'rescued' horses receive from well meaning but under financed and overburdened rescue groups. Witness the periodic press accounts of rescued horses that have to be rescued from the rescuers.

[evesadopter]

Eavesdropper (evesadopter, but that's ok :) ), there's just not realistic way that every horse can be saved. IT's just not gonna happen.

Those that have a better chance usurp those that don't.

Rescues do not have ifinite funds. Their money is very finite. Choices have to be made.

If you want to be the one making the choice create, and fund, your own resuce.

If you can't do that then support the rescue you're talking about w/enough funds to take care of those horses you don't want to see put down.

Or... suck it up and realize that every horse can't live indefinately in this imperfect world. sylvia

Actually, this rescue does have the funds. That's what I'm saying not every horse can be saved. So DEFHR needs to focus on the horses they have now, instead of irresponsibly taking in more horses than they can.

[BeastieSlave]

It sounds to me like they are being responsible for the horses they have - just not how you would be responsible.

[evesadopter]

It would be wonderful if there could be a forever home for every horse that ends up in a rescue. But, realistically, it doesn't happen. For all the reasons that have been given above, sometimes horses have to be euthanized, at every rescue. If not, what happens when the next group of horses that need rescuing comes along, and all the rescues are full of unadobtables? Do they, figuratively, stand outside the gates, waiting and suffering?

You have the gumption to be devoting time and energy to this idealistic cause of yours. Sounds like you have plenty of energy and drive. Your time, however could be much better spent campaigning to help Day's End, which is one of the premier rescue organizations in the United States, rather than discrediting it. You are not doing them, or all of the horses that they help any good.

I can't support a rescue that is killing their horses...and almost killed my horse. A lot of other rescues disagree with what DEFHR is doing also.

DEFHR is being dishonest, and I can't support them, not anymore.

[arena run]

You mentioned they spent $2400 on euthenasia.

You mentioned there was a horse who jumps 4' fences w/a rider aboard.

Now... if they spent $$ to train that ONE horse it would, most likely, come to well over that $2400 mark.

For ONE horse.

Not to mention the others who might need comparable training or special meds or just plain ole hay. Hay isn't free.

I just can't take your word for it that they have plenty of money to sustain, and train, all the horses in their care.

I also am not buying into your comments about how they have so much more land now why should they stop at 65 horses? Well, if they were horribly overcrowded w/50 in the old place why, oh why, would they want to then become over crowded in their new place? sylvia

[evesadopter]

It sounds to me like they are being responsible for the horses they have - just not how you would be responsible.

If you knew DEFHR like I do, you wouldn't think they're being responsible. :no:

[evesadopter]

You mentioned they spent $2400 on euthenasia.

You mentioned there was a horse who jumps 4' fences w/a rider aboard.

Now... if they spent $$ to train that ONE horse it would, most likely, come to well over that $2400 mark.

For ONE horse.

Not to mention the others who might need comparable training or special meds or just plain ole hay. Hay isn't free.

I just can't take your word for it that they have plenty of money to sustain, and train, all the horses in their care.

I also am not buying into your comments about how they have so much more land now why should they stop at 65 horses? Well, if they were horribly overcrowded w/50 in the old place why, oh why, would they want to then become over crowded in their new place? sylvia

Okay.

[seeuatx]

$2400 on euthanisation? Honey, 2400 is nothing in horses. Maybe that will cover care for 4 horses in most areas for 1 month. That's it. One month. Not including training... I'm talking board, farrier, and vet. And that's a young and healthy horse with no training issues. Add training, or emaciated horses, or the geriatric care... well you are looking at far more.

Sure maybe they have more LAND... but hay is up, grain is up, gas is up which means farrier and vet are up. And that means that donations are down. Money is finite, and rescues can only do so much. At least they are letting them go peacefully and responsibly rather than giving them a one way ticket to Mexico. It's called the final act of kindness... take the ones that are not adoptable, or even easily adoptable, and give them a kind peaceful ending. Quite frankly that is better than the "rescues" that are over horsed and under staffed and funded and letting their horses starve to death out in the pastures. Like an EMT, the rescues have to triage too.

[eqsiu]

If you knew DEFHR like I do, you wouldn't think they're being responsible. :no:

Then freakin' TELL us why you don't. What is your personal experience that makes you so against them? Or are you just going on rumors and innuendo. No one can take your word for it if you don't present a cogent argument.

Rescues have the responsibility to care for horses most likely to be adopted. If no one is going to want them, then humane euthanasia is a wonderful option. No one wants another old horse. No one wants a horse they can't ride. No one wants an unruly poorly trained nag. You should thank the stars that there are rescues that can provide these horses with a quick end.

[silver2]

I think they should be euthanizing a lot more horses to be honest. The county here recently seized 40 horses, people spent a vast amount of time and money getting them to a decent weight then they were auctioned off for a couple hundred bucks each :confused:

Half those horses will probably be dead in 2 years, and just about none of them are ever going to become useful riding horses given the folks who bought them. Not to mention that there is a serious hay shortage and money shortage in this rural county right now. They should have saved everyone a lot of time and resources and euthed them at seizure imho.

There are plenty of people making more untrained, unattractive horses out there. We're not going to run out anytime soon.

ETAI also will not donate to any rescue who will use funds for an expensive operation for a rescue...
Me either. I think that is insane.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

I support shelters, but shelters are different than rescues. Rescues don't euthanize their animals to make space for more. I worked with a GSD rescue a while back and they never euthanized their dogs, ever.

Really? I do border collie rescue and we have euthanized unadoptable dogs. What's the alternative? Let that unadoptable dog occupy a foster spot for ten or fifteen years? Then how many perfectly adoptable dogs die because we haven't foster homes for them?

Resources are finite. I don't like it either, but BuddyRoo has it right. The villains here are the folks who either ruin a perfectly good animal and then pawn it off on rescue, or the folks who lack the ovaries to step up and make the tough decisions themselves.

[seeuatx]

One more thing and then I am done feeding the troll...

If you honestly believe that every horse is wanted and should not be euthanized despite soundness, age, or temperment.... you do it. You open a rescue. You try to solicit the needed donations. You end up taking on a 2nd or even 3rd job all while caring for these animals, just so you can pay the bills. You go through what few apps you get and try to weed out the people who plan on picking them up and making a quick stop at New Holland. You do the training, or hire some one who will take on rank ponies that have tried to kill people (I guarantee those trainers will be few and far between). You do all that, for no pay, and just see how long you can make it like that.

If you wanted to have some credibility, you would have come on and stated your issue and agenda against this particular place. You would not have tried to suck people into what might have been a debate. As it is, you are railing against what most will see to be as one of the good ones. If you want to throw yourself on the ground and have temper tantrums over the care of rescue horses, look up the threads on CBER and that one in Colorado. As it is, you have no argument, and there are enough real rescuers on here that do the grunt work every day that in the end you just look foolish.

[AppJumpr08]

It is far easier to sit back and complain about what shouldn't be done then it is to step up to the plate and put your money where your mouth is.

If you feel so strongly about keeping every horse alive no matter what it's life outlook is, then great! Buy a big honkin' piece of land and start adopting!

Your outlook is EXACTLY why I have shied away from starting an official rescue. The last thing any rescue needs is someone second guessing their responsible and caring decisions they make for the animals in their care. NO MATTER WHAT THE DECISION IS.

[evesadopter]

One more thing and then I am done feeding the troll...

If you honestly believe that every horse is wanted and should not be euthanized despite soundness, age, or temperment.... you do it. You open a rescue. You try to solicit the needed donations. You end up taking on a 2nd or even 3rd job all while caring for these animals, just so you can pay the bills. You go through what few apps you get and try to weed out the people who plan on picking them up and making a quick stop at New Holland. You do the training, or hire some one who will take on rank ponies that have tried to kill people (I guarantee those trainers will be few and far between). You do all that, for no pay, and just see how long you can make it like that.

If you wanted to have some credibility, you would have come on and stated your issue and agenda against this particular place. You would not have tried to suck people into what might have been a debate. As it is, you are railing against what most will see to be as one of the good ones. If you want to throw yourself on the ground and have temper tantrums over the care of rescue horses, look up the threads on CBER and that one in Colorado. As it is, you have no argument, and there are enough real rescuers on here that do the grunt work every day that in the end you just look foolish.

I don't want to argue with anyone. If you don't believe me fine. I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throats.

Arguing with people is pointless, as it only makes more flaming. Don't accuse me of anything until YOU'VE talked to the rescue yourself. I guarantee if you ask why they put those horses down you will receive 5 totally different answers from 5 different people. There are no straight answers as to why those horses were euthanized. The rescue doesn't have a legitimate reason.

Before I even posted this I asked the mod. for permission, so call me a troll.

[eqsiu]

I don't want to argue with anyone. If you don't believe me fine. I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throats.

Arguing with people is pointless, as it only makes more flaming. Don't accuse me of anything until YOU'VE talked to the rescue yourself. I guarantee if you ask why they put those horses down you will receive 5 totally different answers from 5 different people. There are no straight answers as to why those horses were euthanized. The rescue doesn't have a legitimate reason.

Before I even posted this I asked the mod. for permission, so call me a troll.

They don't need a reason. Some asshat didn't want the horse. They end up in rescues because no one wants the responsibility. If said rescue thinks they aren't worth the time, energy and resources, they put them down. And they probably don't explain the reason in detail to everyone involved with the place. So step up and take the horses yourself.

[gwenrowdy]

I have nothing against humane euthanasia, either, because there are so many worse things that can happen to a horse. Here's a little taste of what horses, responsible horse owners, and rescuers are up against:
http://www.tbfriends.com/

[SuperOtto]

In my opinion, they are not doing anything wrong by euthanising unadoptable horses. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to, but the truth is that there are too many horses out there that are adoptable that rescues don't have room for.

I think if you are so concerned about it, you should put your money where your mouth is and open up your own rescue. Then you can do anything you want with the horses :rolleyes:

[Chief2]

Having rescued, rehabbed, rehomed and retired more than my fair share of unwanted and abandoned horses, I know the money, time and emotions that come with this territory. When it comes to the hard reality out there, I fully understand the problems the rescues are facing. When it comes to my moral compass, I think the rescues that run their barns like the town or city dog pound, giving a horse a certain amount of time and resources towards rehoming, and then euthanizing them in order to manufacture an opening in the barn for another arrival is disgustingly reprehensible.

But that's the state of affairs in many of these rescues today. They got into this thing to rescue, rehab and rehome a horse, and that's how they wish to continue their operations. They do not wish to become retirement facilities, they do not wish to slow their rescue rate down further or change their conveyor belt rescue mentality by closing their doors for years until the horses are really at the end of their time and then are euthanized, and there are not enough homes and retirement facilities available to place or dump these horses on (depending on your point of view), even if they are willing to tolerate the rescues' restrictions and policies. Unfortunately, OP, that is the type of rescue you became involved with, and, although I wish you the best of luck trying to change this situation with this particular rescue, you probably will not be able to.

If you lack the funding to start your own retirement facility, I would suggest searching for a rescue that has learned how to realize its own size and limitations, picks its battles with more care, and has the resources or funding base to absorb and retire those horses it cannot rehome. Although the good ones are in the minority in this country, these rescues do exist, and are worth working with. I think you would be happier working in one of those over the long run. In lieu of that, I would suggest adopting horses as your own finances will allow, and learn to be at peace knowing you have done something to better the lives of a few horses in your own corner of the world. That alone can make quite a difference. JMHO.

Good luck in your work with horses.

[silver2]

Chief2, fyi you might want to do some research on Days End before assuming anything. They're a good group

[Liberty]

A lot of other rescues disagree with what DEFHR is doing also.

Two simple questions:

First is the one you didn't answer - you claim that other "rescues" had offered homes for several of Days End's horses, so why are two of those horses still being "featured" on your website and video as being in danger of being euthed??

Secondly, in reference to the first question, and the quote from a later post of yours that I referenced above, exactly who are these "other rescues"? Do you know them personally? Been to their facilities? I'd like to know who you consider responsible and reputable rescue organizations, please.

[Liberty]

Chief2, fyi you probably want to do some research on Days End before making those kinds of statements.

Boy, you got that right.

[evesadopter]

Having rescued, rehabbed, rehomed and retired more than my fair share of unwanted and abandoned horses, I know the money, time and emotions that come with this territory. When it comes to the hard reality out there, I fully understand the problems the rescues are facing. When it comes to my moral compass, I think the rescues that run their barns like the town or city dog pound, giving a horse a certain amount of time and resources towards rehoming, and then euthanizing them in order to manufacture an opening in the barn for another arrival is disgustingly reprehensible.

But that's the state of affairs in many of these rescues today. They got into this thing to rescue, rehab and rehome a horse, and that's how they wish to continue their operations. They do not wish to become retirement facilities, they do not wish to slow their rescue rate down further or change their conveyor belt rescue mentality by closing their doors for years until the horses are really at the end of their time and then are euthanized, and there are not enough homes and retirement facilities available to place or dump these horses on (depending on your point of view), even if they are willing to tolerate the rescues' restrictions and policies. Unfortunately, OP, that is the type of rescue you became involved with, and, although I wish you the best of luck trying to change this situation with this particular rescue, you probably will not be able to.

If you lack the funding to start your own retirement facility, I would suggest searching for a rescue that has learned how to realize its own size and limitations, picks its battles with more care, and has the resources or funding base to absorb and retire those horses it cannot rehome. Although the good ones are in the minority in this country, these rescues do exist, and are worth working with. I think you would be happier working in one of those over the long run. In lieu of that, I would suggest adopting horses as your own finances will allow, and learn to be at peace knowing you have done something to better the lives of a few horses in your own corner of the world. That alone can make quite a difference. JMHO.

Good luck in your work with horses.

Thank you.

Days End keeps saying "We're not a sanctuary." But that never stopped them from keep other horses at their farm before.

To the poster right above this, You can do as much research about this rescue as you want. It doesn't mean they're a nice, innocent rescue. Until you've volunteered with them, and have seen the things that go on within the rescue, you really won't be able to understand the situation.

That's all I'm saying. Thanks to everyone who responded! If you ever want to get updates on the protest, you know where to find me.

Thanks again! ~evesadopter :)

[Sue from Auckland]

Personally, I think the Days End euth policy (as stated on their web site) is eminently fair and sensible. It's not just one person making arbitrary decisions and it's done after careful consideration and with proper professional input. I feel that a lot of rescued horses have a lot of time, effort and emotion expended on them when it could be argued very reasonably that they should have simply been (HUMANELY!!!!) PTS when their situation was first encountered. Thus I am not against slaughter, per se - just against inhumane transport and treatment (of any animal).

[Liberty]

To the poster right above this, You can do as much research about this rescue as you want. It doesn't mean they're a nice, innocent rescue. Until you've volunteered with them, and have seen the things that go on within the rescue, you really won't be able to understand the situation.

That's all I'm saying. Thanks to everyone who responded! If you ever want to get updates on the protest, you know where to find me.

Thanks again! ~evesadopter :)

Just as I figured; you won't answer two simple questions. As for "finding you" for "further updates", nope, not interested. I already know what I need to know, but apparently that's not the case with you.

[Chief2]

I'm not assuming anything about this rescue because I know nothing about it, nor do I wish to research it, period. I just don't see that launching an internet campaign against it is the most productive use of the OP's time and resources. She isn't happy with the group and isn't happy with their way of doing whatever it is they do,, and that should be enough to tell her to move on to more productive pastures, where she feels her talents, time and resources will be better utilized. That's it from my end.

[horsecrazy]

I saw Days End in action in Mississippi after Katrina. They sure looked like 'good guys' to me and I know for a fact that they put out a lot of their own money to be there and help out!


Did you see Days End, or did you see Allan? (no longer associated with DEFHR)

Not saying that I doubt Days End was involved at all, but I believe Allan Schwartz works for the Humane Society disaster rescue, so he may have been there on this organization's behalf, not DEF....

[MistyBlue]

What is a protest and sign-in going to accomplish? You'll bring the list to the rescue and they'll what? Change their already decent and working policy? Suddenly decide to become a warehouse and retirement facility? Stop rescuing more horses that *can* find new homes easily and let them continue to be neglected, abused or sent on the now l-o-n-g road to slaughter? All so *you* can feel better about the two horses you got to know and now feel they should live thier lives out on the rescue's dime because you love them but aren;t ready or willing to take financial responsibility for them yourself?
Does that make sense? You want them to care for those horses forever and/or take the months and income to try training them better hoping they're trainable horses so YOU feel better about horses you got to know personally? And yet YOU won't try making a collection for adopting them yourself? Or are not out trying to find adopters for these horses? You just want to try to smear the excellent reputation of a rescue who is doing the right and correct things according to *most* responsible horse owners so they (in your mind) fold to your wishes and keep spending their donated money on currently unadopable horses...that's childish, unpofessional and ridiculous. Buy them, adopt them, find adopters for them, raise money for training them further...but don't try to force someone else who already saved them once to keep supporting forever because of your emotions.
Why have you not taken them? I'm guessing either you can't afford them or they won't adopt them to you because you're not capable of safely handling them. In either instance...your point becomes moot.
I understand the emotions behind your feelings...but it's time to grow up and face reality. And stop trying to discredit a VERY reputable organization...if I sign any petition it will be that reputable rescues have to give a sanity and maturity test to all potential volunteers.

[J Swan]

If you've got a problem with it - adopt the horses and take care of them yourself.

Or write them a check for 200K so they can keep the horses in the style you demand until they die of natural causes.

Otherwise, shut up.



I'm currently protesting a rescue who is euthanizing their horses because they are too old and lack training. :( Here's a link if you're interested:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/stop-euthanizing-days-end-horses

[county]

J Swan thats exactly what I think when some of the anti slaughter people flip out. It never works with them either.

[spurgirl]

OP,you need to volunteer at a RETIREMENT facility,not a RESCUE facility.Or,open your own rescue,and run it as you see fit:yes:.There are plenty of needy horses to go around these days:no:.Good luck to you.

[GatoGordo]

What are you trying to accomplish? Post inflammatory comments and get everyone to hate DEFHR so that they don't get more support/donations? You will have shot yourself in the foot, if your goal was to save more horses.

You say that DEFHR is a rescue, not a shelter. I have yet to hear of a shelter that takes in horses in any significant quantity. SOMEBODY has to shoulder the burden of unwanted horses. What should DEFHR start doing, turning down more horses? What of the new horses that will have to be turned down if they decide not to euthanize more unadoptable horses?

If I can fault DEFHR for anything, it would be for not screening and educating their volunteers more carefully -- your ethics and priorities and philosophy about horse rescuing clearly do not mesh with theirs, or those of 90+% of this board, and I am amazed that you lasted 8 years there.

[Savoy 8]

Ok this is all I am going to say: I would rather see a horse that is too old, and unadoptable be HUMANELY euthanized, to make room for another horse... then for a rescue to turn down a horse that MAY be adoptable, then that horse to sit somewhere and starve, or be abused...


Whats better starving to death OR dying in your sleep?

[horsecrazy]

Ok this is all I am going to say: I would rather see a horse that is too old, and unadoptable be HUMANELY euthanized, to make room for another horse... then for a rescue to turn down a horse that MAY be adoptable, then that horse to sit somewhere and starve, or be abused...


The problem with this is when the line is not as clear cut...

Say Horse A is a 10 yo QH mare, not sound right now but could improve with proper farrier and veterinary care and maybe some supplements/medications. Horse B is sound and healthy, but is 25 yrs old. Who goes - who stays?? I wouldn't want to be the one to decide...

[caffeinated]

Ok this is all I am going to say: I would rather see a horse that is too old, and unadoptable be HUMANELY euthanized, to make room for another horse... then for a rescue to turn down a horse that MAY be adoptable, then that horse to sit somewhere and starve, or be abused...

Ditto that.

And from what I know about the situation (admittedly limited) the information presented about these horses from the OP is not anywhere near the whole story.

This isn't a situation like choosing between the young but slightly unsound horse who needs some rehab and the much older but totally sound horse- this is about horses who are dangerous to handle, or horses who had been adopted but returned several times due to behavioral issues,

DEFHR's policy is responsible, IMO, and from what I know about these situations they have gone above and beyond in the attempt to do right by the animals in their care. It sucks, but sometimes we have to prioritize, and focus efforts towards horses that are easy to deal with and place- the time, resources, and money that goes towards one very difficult case might have saved 2, 3, or even 4 horses. I don't think DEFHR, or any rescue, makes those decisions lightly.

[magnolia73]

they are euthanizing healthy, horses that could (if given time) find a home.

How much time? A year? Two years? And what if that means saying no to a horse that can find a home in a month?

Euthanasia is never taken lightly by rescuers. My cat came to me - she had been at the pound up for adoption for months- they had to make room for new cats and out of desperation a concerned person emailed a last minute appeal and took care of every last detail for me to get that cat saved. She did not sit there and critcize- she took needed action to save a cat who had outlasted her stay. She emailed, took care of vet details and delivered a lovely older cat to me.

Bottom line- not enough homes for all healthy, well adjusted animals. If you want to save their lives, it takes a lot of effort and resources and complaining about a volunteer rescue group is not the effort you need to be making. You need to take action- maybe raise some money for the group. Buy them more land. Push to get more horses rehomed. Spread the word on gelding. Go shovel manure.

But frankly- I never feel like people like you actually care about helping the animals- you care about judging people who are working hard and you care about complaining and making yourself feel superior. But you just look petty and foolish.

[magnolia73]

The rescue doesn't have a legitimate reason.

What is a legitimate reason? It varies per person. There are plenty of rescues that will spend the bucks on keeping a crippled horse alive. There are plenty who take a more pragmatic approach. Perhaps they had a variety of reasons. Why didn't you step in and come up with a plan that accomodated new horses and saved the old ones? You know, if it is so easy and all, do it.

Can you tell me what they could have done to keep the old horses, accomodate the old ones and not stress their facilities? What steps could have been taken and how could they have been funded?

I think the rescues that run their barns like the town or city dog pound, giving a horse a certain amount of time and resources towards rehoming, and then euthanizing them in order to manufacture an opening in the barn for another arrival is disgustingly reprehensible.

No, the reprehensible attitudes are the people that own the horses that end up at the rescues who decide that they can't feed or care for their horse and choose not to take responsibility for that animals life through either euthanasia or finding another home. And the other disgusting group are those who sit in judgement of places trying to do good. Trying to do their best.

[DMK]

Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses.

Here's an idea. You adopt them. Give them their forever home. Problem solved for those two horses.

Now they have a bigger facility and have 65 horses on it....and their putting horses down because they have no space?

So DEFHR needs to focus on the horses they have now, instead of irresponsibly taking in more horses than they can.

Hmmm, first they are not taking in more horses even though they now have more land a later you tell us they are taking in more horses than they can/should... When you sort out which position you think best suits your cause du jour get back to us, mmmkay?

[paohatch]

I'm a strong supporter of rescues (financially) but will not donate to any rescue who warehouses unadoptable horses. I also will not donate to any rescue who will use funds for an expensive operation for a rescue...this country is literally flooded with healthy, sane animals that need the second chance too and a rescue by definition should rescue and rehome as many as possible and not pick and choose expensive, unwanted cases because they tug at heart strings.

My god, that is so my philosophy too. I always rescue older beagles (2 in the home at a time) but when their time comes, I let them go. I don't given them chemo, heart surgury, etc. They are sooooo many animals out there, all needing help, all needing a good home. Be they horses, wild burros, cats, dogs, etc.:no: The warehouse-ing charactistic is everywhere. I see some horses that will never be adoptable, serious surgery expensives, etc. on an older retired horse... why?

Oh well, call me heartless. I wish we allowed mercy killing for people too!. Where are you Dr. Kavorkian...?

[loshad]

How much time is the "right" amount of time? One year? Five years? Ten years? If horses are so dangerous they injure people badly enough to break bones or come home from multiple adoptive locations, those would be issues that would make me think that euthanasia is the best option. Not every horse is adoptable, and a horse that has already injured someone is a liability to a rescue. Had they readopted that pony you mentioned, they very well could have been sued and been unable to help ANY horses.

I also think that a responsible rescue should have a euthanization policy. A rescue that doesn't, IMO, generally ends up as a hoarding situation and that doesn't end well for anyone.

I don't know the situation at this specific rescue, but times are very tight for almost everyone right now; probably more so for a rescue that relies on donations. It may have been possible for rescues to keep horses indefinitely before when the price of a bale of hay didn't rival that of a European vacation. Now, not so much.

Your coming on here in a self-righteous fury does not help the horses in any way, shape or form. Doesn't do much for you, either, when you make vague unsubstantiated accusations, deal in half-truths, and have an obvious personal vendetta. If you didn't want those horses PTS, you should have stepped up and adopted them. Since you didn't, I can only assume that a) you, like the rescue, couldn't afford it, b) you didn't really care about them all that much in the first place, but like the warm, fuzzy feeling you get from pretending to be active with your silly little petition, or c) know that they were dangerous/unadoptable and don't want to admit it because OMG! they are going to be PTS and that harshes your mellow.

[EatinHay]

I haven't read this thread in its entirety so I don't know that my next statements will get flamed or not but it's my opinion and I guess I'm entitled to it. But the thing is that I have a hard time dealing with rescues that want to "save" EVERY horse. Recently, there was a horse that came into the care of a local rescue that was between 20 & 25 yrs. old and vet check revealed that she was unrideable and very deeply ill with Cushings disease and while she could be given medication and live out her years to a natural death, I have to ask, "Why?" Really, what is her quality of life and is just being kept alive enough? On top of all of that this mare had pulmonary trouble and was so heavey that she couldn't just stand still without gasping and having heaves. I just don't see that there is a lot to cheer about when I'm told that the vet can give this mare a ton of meds but she's never going to be able to do anything again apart of walking in and out of her shed. Of course, then it's always followed with so now we need donations to pay the hundreds or thousand dollar vet bill on this horse. It's not that I don't care about this horse, I do but I just don't see the point in making her fight long and hard for nothing. Another case is a yearling colt that was diagnosed of having a wrenched ankle, so wrenched in fact that he'll never be able to go faster than a walk and will be in pain for life. By the time he is 3 or 4 years old, arthritis will settle into that joint and his pain will worsen exponentially. Should he be left to live out his life in pain or where meds are given that control the pain but in turn create other health issues? People often accuse me of not caring etc. when they hear my views on issues like these but to me it is often worse to keep horses like these living on for the typical selfish reasons that he's so pretty and that he's so sweet. Well he is those things but that's not enough for him to live a life of constant pain. Maybe I'm rambling but this is just one of those issues that really bugs me, makes me go "huh" sometimes.

[Chief2]

Frankly, I wish someone far higher up than I would reach in beyond the do-gooder patter that characterizes this industry (and it is an industry) and give the rescue industry the shaking out it needs. I am all for saving horses, and as I said, have done a fair amount of it myself, but just as with the patter they blather on about concerning owner responsibility for taking on an animal, they too have that same responsibility when taking on an animal. Tag the name 'rescue' onto the operation, though, and it gives them an out that the responsible owner can't even get from his or her own veterinarian when they can no longer care for their horse, or won't.

The first thing an owner is told to do in these circumstances is to rehome the horse or give it to rescue. If they give it to a rescue, they are told it will be cared for, and adopted out. That's the banter the rescues themselves put out from the get go when this whole industry got going and took flight, and like it or not, that the what owners in distressed circumstances to this day are still encouraged to do. It is not the private owners fault that he bought a horse that someone bred. It is not his fault that many, many of the owners and operators of these rescues were heavily in on the ground floor of the antislaughter movement, pushing it through when they knew full well that the tidal wave of horses would be washing over the rescue's barn floors. And it is not his fault that the very industry that promoted itself for years as a place that would go on caring for horses when the owners no longer could, is overwhelmed, complaining about the very pool of horses they set themselves up in business to care of, and screaming that they can not cope with the onslaught they set loose upon themselves. So now they are making the hard decisions
that private owners often cannot even hire a vet to take care of for them, no matter how hard they try. And they are getting away with it under the guise of making room for a worthier horse. If a private owner ran a turnstile operation like this, they would be tarred and feathered all over the internet. But because they are a rescue, god forbid anyone should criticize.

It is a sign of the times that with the economy tanking, boarding barns are more often allowing horses that their owners can no longer pay for to remain on the farm so they won't have to land in the rescue industry, because there is no longer the trust or assurance that they can rehome even some of the nicest horses due to the massive overflow going on out there. And no owner wants to send in a nice horse only to find out the rescue was either not able to do what they originally advertised they could do, or gave up on doing it, decided the unwanted horse was unwanted once again, and euthanized it to make space for another horse they thought they could care for.

It is nice to think that only the old, the infirm or the badly behaved re euthanized, but some of these places adopt horses out to people who have no business becoming adopters, can't handle what they get, and can't or won't pay for training. Because the same idiot screens the adopters again and again, the horse comes back in once, twice, and by the third time out, is such a nervous wreak from being passed from barn to barn that he appears to be a lunatic by the time he hits barn #3, and back he goes to the rescue again. Can't be placed, is deemed unadoptable, room must be made, so down he goes.

Now the rescue in question is probably and most likely one of the better rescues, and doesn't take these decisions lightly. You have my apologies if such is the case and I implied otherwise. There are rescues right on this board that I have made small donations to because they are wonderful, responsible places that do not run a turnstile operation, take care of what they take in, and go to the ends of the earth to adopt out wisely, resulting in very few return horses. They are in the top one third of the industry. The remaining two-thirds needs to be heavily investigated, and thoroughly regulated, something the rescue industry, like the thoroughbred industry is loathe to do. It is funny how they wind up resembling one another while vilifying each other.

The OP is not suited for the rescue industry. There are too many hard decision being made, and most pie-in-the-sky rescues simply do not exist. Or their owner loses their job, and the pie crashes back to earth. If she stays in it, a small, home-based rescue that only adopts what it is sure it can place out would be the best situation for her. I do not feel taking her bitterness and disillusionment and targeting a particular rescue via an internet war is the right thing to do, nor am I signing any petition against it. If, however, there was a petition and grassroots movement afoot to force government investigation, thorough regulation and closure of failing rescues, you can be sure I would be at the head of the list.

[MistyBlue]

Well, I do hate it too when my mellow is harshed Loshad. :winkgrin:

[BeastieSlave]

:lol: I was just thinking, "I bet this isn't what the OP had in mind" ;)
Lesson here: Know your audience.

[cowgirljenn]

I’m sad to see this topic come to COTH. I saw the OP’s website a while ago and talked to people at DEFHR. I’ve always looked up to Days End, and I’ll continue to do so. They’re one of the oldest rescues in the country, and they’ve paved the way for a lot of other rescues. They offer help to other rescues and advice, and they’re doing good work.

“I think that if horse rescues are going to euthanize their horses, it should be because the horse is in extreme pain/suffering, or if the horse has extreme aggression issues that puts people working with it in danger.”

So who decides how much suffering is extreme? Who decides how much aggression is dangerous? The people responsible for the day-to-day handling and care of the horses, that’s who. Not you. Not me. We don’t know all the history of the horse, all of what’s been tried, etc. I’ve got horses at my rescue that we’ve euthanized. I’m sure you would question some of them, but you don’t know all the details. You aren’t psychic, and you weren’t there every moment of the rescue’s operation.

“They aren't even trying to find another sanctuary that could possibly take him in.”

So, are you psychic? If not, how do you know what they did or didn’t do? Do you know there are only a few reputable sanctuaries out there? And they have –waiting lists- for them? And that’s if you ignore the fact that the horse you are complaining about has health issues on top of his age that make euthanasia a kinder option.

“Another pony was a Chincoteague pony, she was sent to the wrong home and received little to no training there. She injured her rider and was sent back to the rescue. After 3 weeks she was euthanized. She was young and was green. The rescue sent her to the wrong home, and the pony suffered for it.”

Again, how do you know what training she received? Were you there supervising daily?

“They are denying to the public that they have NEVER changed their policy, however their policy did in fact change, and I have it in writing.”

If you have proof, then show it to us.

“Un-adoptable doesn't exist. NO HORSE is un-adoptable. Someone out there will ALWAYS want a horse that no one else seems to want.”

Really? That’s awesome. Would you please help me find an adopter for the 12 “companion only”/unridable horses in my rescue who are searching for homes. Some of them have been waiting over 2 years. Where are their adopters? Especially the wild pony you can’t touch or the two year old with a bad knee who won’t be ridable but could well live 30 years, needing hay/grain/care.

“Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses. “

So who are these rescues? Is it ok for Days End to send the horse off to a less-than-reputable rescue? Perhaps one who has been investigated for neglect or abuse? Or one who misappropriates funds? Or one who doesn’t provide good care for the horses it houses? Do you know if these rescues are reputable?

Furthermore, if Days End believes a horse is suffering or dangerous and should be euthanized, I would find it irresponsible of them to send the horse off to another rescue and prolong his suffering.


“I forgot to mention that DEFHR used to have a smaller farm that was like 17 acres, now they have a BIGGER facility and have 30-40 acres. At the smaller farm, DEFHR had 50 horses on it, really overcrowded. Now they have a bigger facility and have 65 horses on it....and their putting horses down because they have no space?”

So they have more room. Do they also have more feed? More hay? More help? More money? It takes all of that to run a rescue – not just physical space.

“Actually, this rescue does have the funds. That's what I'm saying not every horse can be saved.”

How do you know they have the funds? Have you been looking over their accounts? Seeing what’s coming in, what’s going out, what’s been donated for specific projects (so it can’t be spent on just anything)? Do you not realize that SOMETIMES the only way we can save a horse is to spare him further suffering by euthanizing him?

“DEFHR has spent $2400 on euthanasias. They have the funds to take care of these animals. $2400 could've been spent on food, training, etc.”

$2400 on euthanasia isn’t that much. We’ve probably spent that much this year, too – the only reason we may not have is because one vet we use donates euthanasia. She realizes that each time we make the call to euthanize a horse, it is HARD. We think about it carefully, we explore the horse’s future health and needs, his current pain level or behavioral issues, etc. Each horse we euthanize leaves a mark on my soul. I bet the same can be said for Days End’s people.

“DEFHR is being dishonest, and I can't support them, not anymore.”

How are they being dishonest? Cite specific examples, please.


“The first thing an owner is told to do in these circumstances is to rehome the horse or give it to rescue. If they give it to a rescue, they are told it will be cared for, and adopted out. That's the banter the rescues themselves put out from the get go when this whole industry got going and took flight, and like it or not, that the what owners in distressed circumstances to this day are still encouraged to do.”

Actually, if you pay attention to rescues like Days End, Bluebonnet (my rescue) and many others that have been around for a while, you’ll NOT see us telling people to give horses to rescues. Our rescue and Days End generally stay full with neglect case horses – those who are seized by law enforcement or surrendered when a neglect investigation is started. We DON’T want people giving us horses they can’t keep because of health or behavioral problems, and we would PREFER the owner put them down themselves. There’s a newer “class” of rescues and anti-slaughter supporters who spout off that owners should give their horses to rescues. There are plenty of people who don’t run rescues and aren’t responsible for the care of rescue horses who spout this off as well. And I think this frustrates those of us in rescue who don’t ask for owners to give us their unhealthy or dangerous horses as much as it frustrates you.

[loshad]

Well, I do hate it too when my mellow is harshed Loshad. :winkgrin:


Don't we all, MistyBlue. :)

[sidepasser]

If you've got a problem with it - adopt the horses and take care of them yourself.

Or write them a check for 200K so they can keep the horses in the style you demand until they die of natural causes.

Otherwise, shut up.



Could not have said it better myself.

[goeslikestink]

DEFHR has spent $2400 on euthanasias. They have the funds to take care of these animals. $2400 could've been spent on food, training, etc.

I support shelters, but shelters are different than rescues. Rescues don't euthanize their animals to make space for more. I worked with a GSD rescue a while back and they never euthanized their dogs, ever.

they do- just you havent seen it, if a dog bites it cant be rehomed, normally they test the dogs when feeding,


in the real world it cost money, and in the real world not everyone cant be saved
if the horse was older and had medical condtions or just plain old, as in old old then
the option is do you rescue one that worth more chance of survival and more chance of getting re homed or do you run ahuge bill with the one you got-----
its a thin line they tread on- and if they havent enough funding's or support then they either ship them to another rehoming centre, or they pts or they give them a chance
it depends on each case your presented with as what you do next

your generalising over all things -- which unfortunately doesnt happen in the real world
its life-- as in all life and wild life or domesticated animals they all have the same problems -
for one life rescue one-- or rescue many------- for the sake of losing one

what the real answer----- you would rescue many- for the sake of one-- rather than lose many for the sake of one

all resuce centre have like isad the same problem without public support and foster carers
and re homing schemes then we wouldnt have as many in the centres we so have all over the world
and with out the support of the vets and farriers which is normally done for free
to support the animals in question-
then you cant just judge soemthing by on term of things or generalise this is what happens in our home as i can assure you it doesnt-- you work part time as a voulenteer

something we have to take that very thin line - and weight up the consqeunces of that situation at that time------------

[arabhorse2]

My trainer and I picked up a leopard Appy stallion this weekend.

The owner had lost her job, and her husband said she either found a home for the horse, or he had to be put down.

The rescues are full up, and the woman couldn't sell this horse although she's tried continuously the last several months. A stallion, no matter how even tempered, is a hard sell.

He's a very nice stallion, in looks as well as temperament. A horse like that should have sold for a lot of money, but she was faced with finding him a home or euthing him. He's 7 y/o, sound, sane, and healthy.

My trainer plans to show him, and if he's as good as she's hoping, she'll probably breed him at some point down the road to one of her mares.

This is only one story in thousands of horses who have nothing wrong with them, but their owners can't afford them anymore.

If my trainer hadn't been able to take him, he'd have been euthed. Sad? Sure, especially since he's young and healthy, but I don't see it as a cruelty; I see it as being responsible.

The OP can spout off about how horrible it is that these rank, old, crippled horses shouldn't be euthed just because no one wants them, but the truth is that many fine, well bred, healthy animals have nowhere to go, and their owners are running out of options.

Put up or shut up, OP. If you can't take the horses yourself, you have no say in how the rescue deals with horses that are unadoptable.

[sisu27]

I understand your emotional response. I'm not a cold hearted BIA...but I AM a realist.

If asshats would quit pawning off their middle to late aged horses and do the right thing themselves, then rescues wouldn't be in the position to make tough choices.

OR if asshats would STOP BREEDING $hitty horses and dogs and cats. That is who I ultimately blame, not a rescue doing something to help the situation. I know a couple who have rescued some horses and donkeys and not gelded them and turned them out into a mixed herd. WTF?? Don't people get it?? How stupid are people??

I hate the idea of PTS any healthy animal but I do support a rescue that can help save the maximum amount of animals. Some may be sacrificed along the way but if they can keep that flow they are actually preventing suffering and euth of more animals. That is just how I see it.

[jse]

If you've got a problem with it - adopt the horses and take care of them yourself.

Or write them a check for 200K so they can keep the horses in the style you demand until they die of natural causes.

Otherwise, shut up.

Leave it to J Swan to tell em how it is!
I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[saje]

There are FAR worse fates out there than a kind and easy death. OP, unless you are privy to DEF's itemized budget & 10 yr plan, AND have a detailed plan of your own for how to keep every horse forever and keep it well, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

If you want people to take you & your cause seriously you need to present documented facts and figures, not supposition and "because I said so, trust me...".

Day's End does an amazing job. I know someone working with that organization, and I know a bit about that Chincoteague mare. IMO, euthanasia was a good decision both for human safety *and her happiness*. For a horse to be that aggressive and unpredictable they must be under a great deal of stress or even possibly hidden and undiagnosable pain. An end to that trauma is a GOOD and KIND thing.


You need to turn your efforts towards the really and truly unscrupulous 'rescues' out there.

[equineelders]

(evesadopter:)“Un-adoptable doesn't exist. NO HORSE is un-adoptable. Someone out there will ALWAYS want a horse that no one else seems to want.”

Really? That’s awesome. Would you please help me find an adopter for the 12 “companion only”/unridable horses in my rescue who are searching for homes.

Amen to that. I'd like to also point out that the definition of "unadoptable" or "unlikely to be adopted" is changing and varies form one region of the country to another.

Right now, we are trying to help owners place sound, young, trained horses, many of them registered, being *given* away. Even that is not easy. There are a finite number of homes available at any given time. At this particular time, in this particular area, the number of homes able and willing to take another horse is shrinking, if the number of calls we're getting is any indication. Somehow I don't think that is much different just up the road in Maryland. So, how many can you take, evesadopter?

[MontanaDun]

Someone earlier mentioned that the OP should expend her time and energy finding a rescue that she was comfortable with supporting vs trying to damage one she is uncomfortable with.

Sounds like a good plan. She could then be generating some positive energy and probably save a few horses along the way.

DEFHR is a local rescue for us and is A-okay in my book.

[trubandloki]

Hey OP, this was not the response you expected, was it?


I agree with all those that say if you feel a rescue needs to be run a certain way then put your money where your mouth is and open your own rescue.

Putting animals down is a difficult but necessary part of dealing with other people's unwanted animals. No way around it really.

If you feel that your special horses should not be put down then finance them personally so that does not happen.


I personally think it makes much more sense to put down animals that have little chance of finding a proper home so there is room to house animals that are more adoptable.


I too am waiting for you to answer those two questions you have been asked more than once now. If the horses on your web site have found a rescue to take them, then why are they still being advertised as being at risk of being PTS? And what is the name of the rescues that are taking them?

[Chester's Mom]

Are YOU bankrolling the rescue? Are you OFFERING to bankroll the rescue? There's more to rescuing animals than SPACE.

If you can do it better, start your own rescue. Then you can deal with the time, money, and space crunch and show us all how it's done. :)

Again ... what makes a horse different than the thousands and thousands of healthy (and infinitely more adoptable than an 'aged' horse) dogs and cats put down in shelters all over the US every week?

PS: Unadoptable does exist. You must not have been paying very much attention in those eight years of volunteering if those rose colored glasses are still firmly over your eyes.

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO!!!!!!

Its why I start MY own rescue...because I do believe euthansia is a viable alternative to unadoptable (which does exist, moreso now than ever) and our rescue does euth when necessary. And we are NOT 501c3 so decisions are made solely by myself and the other founder.

OP, you have NO idea how hard it is to turn away dozens of animals EVERY DAY that need help. Until you make the hard decisions day after day you should not criticize those that do their best to live with the reality that every decision they make could result in the death or suffering of an animal. Take it in? Unless there is space and money (and caring available hands) it could cause ALL of your rescued animals to suffer. Refuse it a spot? It could end up dead, starved, thrown out. There is no good answer.

[Watermark Farm]

I rescue, rehab, retrain and rehome (hopefully) 1-2 feedlot horses per year. I love helping horses in my own small way.

I wish that those who criticize rescues who euthanize horses that are difficult to adopt out (permanent lameness, health issues, behavioral issues) would STEP UP and adopt one of these horses!

I rescued a sweet, loving and easy going TB mare who was permanently lame. I worked hard for 2.5 years to place that mare (even offering $250/year for life to help with her special needs), but no one wanted to "take her on with those issues." In the end, she stayed with me until I had to euthanize her recently due to her lameness getting very painful. People would tell me what a "wonderful thing" I had done to save her, but no one would step up and actually adopt her.

Unadoptable DOES exist as long as people can't be bothered to take on special needs horses.

[goeslikestink]

i would rather pts a horse than have it strave to death-- which results is the same except ones an awful lot slower than the other one
resuces centers cant save them all and if they that far gone then theres nothing they can do
it takes time and money to bring a horse back from near death

i know as i rescue my self and have done for years, its not easy and it does cost but if i have one in that is on the line then i have to weight up the situation and whats best for the horse-- simple question i ask myself- is whats the quality of life this horse will have
and if say it was medical or straved so much what quality of life has it is itin pain

pain cant be measured and ther are some illness like cancer than cant be seen and no amount of money is going to save them and you cant as in normal bods have that much money to xray a whole horse-------
like i said each situation rescues find them sevles in with a horse theres a thin line
and it depends on the horse itself as weither its wrothwhile to risk saving it or not
most do but like i siad some you cant

its fact of life- and some horses are old, i have one if icant afford him then i shall have him pts not just cos hes old but i rescued this horse and he wouldnt be happy anywhere else
hes lived here near on all his life since i brought him home, sometimes you have to take in the horses happniess to--

its not easy job to pts on regualr basic like those that have to ie vets huntsman slaughters
do you think they like it they dont its a job a living it s just diffrent to how most earn moneis thats all

the horse and having them isnt always easy for some and some dont care but then there some that are dedicated and open resuce centers and publish facts and articlesand fund riase or do whatever for there plight---------

but it doesnt just cover the horse its people that need educatiing to how to look after a horse

here in uk we have the bhs-- the british horse society it does many things to help horse both in welfare and education so much so to beocme a fully trained instructor or trianer as you call them they have to pass the bhs stages which is govement reconition and is also on the eductional programme attached to colleges and universitys in equine care and management has tons of course for different things
also associated with many major associations and societys ie the fei

people need educatiing on what not to do- then there owuld be less horses in dire straights that need help

[rescuemom]

Wow, I go out of town for 3 days . . .

For those of you who don't know me, I have been a volunteer (and director) at Days End Farm for the past 14 years. I'm not going to argue with the OP, since her mind is set and that's all there is to her.

1. The Euthanasia Policy has not changed.

2. There is not some infinite amount of money to care for every single horse that comes through the gates until it is adopted or dies. Our horses come to us exclusively through animal control authorities. We do not have space for give-ups, haven't for years, and have sometimes had to turn away horses from animal control for lack of space. :(

3. The two horses in question were each adopted out twice, and returned twice. Their behavior issues worsened during each adoption, and they became harder to return to some semblence of normal, adoptable behavior. I knew both those horses. Hindsight being 20/20, it is my opinion (not necessarily Days End's) that we should have put Marbles down years ago. He was pasture-sound in good weather and he was never going to improve. Some of our pasture-sound only horses have been adopted to homes where they were/are cherished. Marbles' "cherishable" potential wasn't great to begin with, and went downhill with each passing year. He had 10 with us, less time out on adoptions. Maggie was probably 10. She came in as an (abandoned) adult, foundered, unhandled, untrained. She came very sound, was put in training. Difficult, stubborn, and stocky enough to be no walk in the park. I was very fond of her. We got her under saddle. We gave her time, care, training, love, and seven years and two adoptions. To say that either of these horses didn't get a chance, or were not treated fairly -- you decide.

4. I have been on the decision-making end of euthanizing rescued horses. The only time it is easy is when the horse arrives and it is immediately apparent that the best and most humane thing you can do is euthanize. And it still hurts then; it hurts because we could not rescue that horse in time. It hurts every single $^@*&$^ time that decision has to be made, for whatever reason. Playing God sucks, and it is an inescapable part of the job of running a rescue.

5. It is not my experience, in the past and especially the very recent present, that many other rescues disagree with Days End's policy. In fact, I have found the opposite to be true. I am wondering where the OP has found these other rescues she cites (but not enough to bother digging them up).

6. When Allan was with us he was part of the Emergency Rescue team. The team, including some who were present with Allan at Katrina, and Andrew, and other post-disaster locales, continues without him, both participating in emergency rescue, as well as training others to do the same.

7. Our acreage has increased dramatically. Our self-imposed ceiling on the number of horses we can care for properly has increased a tiny amount. Rather than overrun all those new acres with horses, we're letting the ones we have relearn what grass, actual grass! is. We no longer have to be embarrassed about 50+ happy, healthy horses, or those in the process of becoming so, on 12 muddy acres with very aged facilities in constant need of repair.

8. Liability. It is why anyone puts down a horse that, despite time and training, simply will never not be dangerous. Virtually all rescues operate because of their volunteers. None of those rescues can put volunteers at risk indefinitely. It doesn't matter how you 'vet' your volunteers, and try to restrict the less knowledgeable ones from dealing with certain horses. Some people will always know better. "Well, I've never seen Win be dangerous, I don't know why she has that red tag on her halter, that's stupid." Until they grab Win by the halter and she breaks their hand. [Note: I adopted Win; I rode her today, outside, alone; feel free to question my sanity.;) I would never say she's not dangerous.]

Thank you, from to bottom of our hearts, to all who have responded here and understand how hard our job is. :sadsmile:

We have other volunteers who make YouTube videos: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1pNpR7-Kc

[tkhawk]

That is certainly a different perspective!! It is just a difficult time right now for everybody. I took over/rescued an abandoned mustang about eight months ago. He had a lot of aggressive -but fear based tendencies. I have brought him along out of that. But for the rest, I think I have finally found a trainer that I like. But a couple of months of training him and he will cost me more than most broke horses. My friend just bought a trail broke 10yr Paint mare-beautiful, papered, fully trained mare for 1700-great trail horse.. So anyone looking for a horse they can ride right away-in today's market, a rescue with issues is not going to make sense. But for me it is more a project-I didn't get him because he was a mustang-I got him because I liked him and played with him a little and he was nice-sometimes you have bond you can't explain away...

In your case, considering you have given 7yrs or more to the horses, that is beyond what a lot of folks give to their own horses. It is just sad right now-for both humans and horses.... But I guess I can see why the OP is being so emotional about it-maybe she knew the horses and loved them. But she is not a kid and if you loved them and are an adult, the responsible thing to do if you don't want them to die, is to do everything you can to keep them alive-even if that meant adopting them, fostering them or even offering to keep them there and offer monthly board. Nice you are running a rescue and good luck weathering these times!

[J Swan]

rescuemom

I hoped you'd see this thread. Good to see you. Keep up the good work.

[Brandy76]

Wow, I go out of town for 3 days . . .

For those of you who don't know me, I have been a volunteer (and director) at Days End Farm for the past 14 years. I'm not going to argue with the OP, since her mind is set and that's all there is to her.

1. The Euthanasia Policy has not changed.

2. There is not some infinite amount of money to care for every single horse that comes through the gates until it is adopted or dies. Our horses come to us exclusively through animal control authorities. We do not have space for give-ups, haven't for years, and have sometimes had to turn away horses from animal control for lack of space. :(

3. The two horses in question were each adopted out twice, and returned twice. Their behavior issues worsened during each adoption, and they became harder to return to some semblence of normal, adoptable behavior. I knew both those horses. Hindsight being 20/20, it is my opinion (not necessarily Days End's) that we should have put Marbles down years ago. He was pasture-sound in good weather and he was never going to improve. Some of our pasture-sound only horses have been adopted to homes where they were/are cherished. Marbles' "cherishable" potential wasn't great to begin with, and went downhill with each passing year. He had 10 with us, less time out on adoptions. Maggie was probably 10. She came in as an (abandoned) adult, foundered, unhandled, untrained. She came very sound, was put in training. Difficult, stubborn, and stocky enough to be no walk in the park. I was very fond of her. We got her under saddle. We gave her time, care, training, love, and seven years and two adoptions. To say that either of these horses didn't get a chance, or were not treated fairly -- you decide.

4. I have been on the decision-making end of euthanizing rescued horses. The only time it is easy is when the horse arrives and it is immediately apparent that the best and most humane thing you can do is euthanize. And it still hurts then; it hurts because we could not rescue that horse in time. It hurts every single $^@*&$^ time that decision has to be made, for whatever reason. Playing God sucks, and it is an inescapable part of the job of running a rescue.

5. It is not my experience, in the past and especially the very recent present, that many other rescues disagree with Days End's policy. In fact, I have found the opposite to be true. I am wondering where the OP has found these other rescues she cites (but not enough to bother digging them up).

6. When Allan was with us he was part of the Emergency Rescue team. The team, including some who were present with Allan at Katrina, and Andrew, and other post-disaster locales, continues without him, both participating in emergency rescue, as well as training others to do the same.

7. Our acreage has increased dramatically. Our self-imposed ceiling on the number of horses we can care for properly has increased a tiny amount. Rather than overrun all those new acres with horses, we're letting the ones we have relearn what grass, actual grass! is. We no longer have to be embarrassed about 50+ happy, healthy horses, or those in the process of becoming so, on 12 muddy acres with very aged facilities in constant need of repair.

8. Liability. It is why anyone puts down a horse that, despite time and training, simply will never not be dangerous. Virtually all rescues operate because of their volunteers. None of those rescues can put volunteers at risk indefinitely. It doesn't matter how you 'vet' your volunteers, and try to restrict the less knowledgeable ones from dealing with certain horses. Some people will always know better. "Well, I've never seen Win be dangerous, I don't know why she has that red tag on her halter, that's stupid." Until they grab Win by the halter and she breaks their hand. [Note: I adopted Win; I rode her today, outside, alone; feel free to question my sanity.;) I would never say she's not dangerous.]

Thank you, from to bottom of our hearts, to all who have responded here and understand how hard our job is. :sadsmile:

We have other volunteers who make YouTube videos: http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1pNpR7-Kc

I don't want to beat up on the original poster, and I have never run a rescue nor been part of the day to day business of a rescue, however - I honestly wish more rescues would euthanize when needed - and even offer it as a "service" to those who might otherwise dump their horse at an auction. Yes, it stinks that there are not enough homes, and the back yard breeders keep "keepin on", but euthanasia is far better than that truck to MExico or Canada. Always.
rescuemom, thank you for what you do.

[Rita1]

I agree with you SISU27, and to take it a step further, some of the lovely race trainers that "DONATE" their train wrecks to programs such as ****** because ****** will not turn a horse down, because these trainers are to cheeeep to euthanise their animals and pay for them to be carted off. I take lessons at a barn, and let me tell you how sickened I was to see some of these donated animals, the thought that they were even loaded in a trailer for the trip to said rescue site, and the wasted donated money used to put them down when said donaters should have done it themselves. (P.S. I dont work for ******, just took lessons in a barn that leased out stalls to them.)

[Sing Mia Song]

Days End is a model rescue facility, and the only one to which I will consider donating (and yes, I have donated to them). I am happy that they will euthanize horses that are difficult to place, rather than the endless collecting I see going on at so many other rescues. They know their limitations and they stick to them.

The OP, on the other hand, has her head in the clouds.

OP says that Days End has the money to support the horses in question: how does she know? Does she manage the books? Struggle with the budget? Calculate just how much the company can spend for veterinary care and still be able to afford hay for the winter? Plan for unexpected storm damage to the barns?

OP says that other rescues would take these horses. Would their lives be that much better? And what about the next two horses? Or the next two after that? Where would they go?

Sorry, OP, you are dragging through the mud a rescue that does the best job of any I've ever seen in 30 years in the horse business.

[Traum]

Rescuemom~ Great post!! In fact because I do know about how Days End does things and what a good rescue *could* be, I had a really hard time with the one that is local to me now. There are too many horses on too small a place and the directors are definitely of the stars in the eyes variety. I did have the chance to talk to some of the powers that be about a few horses that need to be put down. For a variety of major health reasons to start with, not even getting into adoptability. But they won't consider it. This is one of the big reasons I don't go there anymore. That and the googoo eyed devotion to the parelli really turned me off. There is much good they could do even better with, if they'd look hard at the horses they have. And use their abilities to work with the ones who do have a future.

[BLBGP]

I think the most responsible thing rescues can do is provide humane euthanasia as an option. Too many rescues beome warehouses for animals and that often ends poorly, either for animals who are left to suffer at the "rescue" when they should be given the blessing of humane euthanasia, or for animals left to fend on their own because there is no place for them to go.

Sadly, irresponsible horse owners are catching up with irresponsible dog and cat owners. Shelters and rescues are starting to see the tragic equation of too many animals, not enough homes with horses, too. This means that difficult euthanasia decisions will have to be made on a more frequent basis until the real problem is solved.

The responsibility lies with the irresponsible breeders and owners who create the problem, not with the legitimate rescues and sheltering organizations that are forced to deal with the problem.

- - -

[AppJumpr08]

Rescuemom - very well said, and thank you for all the hard work you put into the rescue that you obviously care very much about. :yes:

[Dazednconfused]

I think humane euthanasia is one of the kindest last gifts you can give an animal. So many horses are foisted off to rescues, and I think it is best if the most adoptable horses are given priority - green horses, very old horses, etc are not that adoptable. Young to Middle aged horses, those that are easy to handle, and ones that are broke are the ones that have to reasonably take priority. Anything else is just not pragmatic. :(

I don't believe horses have any concept of death - I believe they care about the here and now, and if on their last day they get a few carrots and are fed well with fresh water and then are put down, that is really not such a bad thing.

[LittleTyke]

Because of this protest many other rescues and organizations have offered to take in Mountain, Gatsby and have offered to help the other horses.

I forgot to mention that DEFHR used to have a smaller farm that was like 17 acres, now they have a BIGGER facility and have 30-40 acres. At the smaller farm, DEFHR had 50 horses on it, really overcrowded. Now they have a bigger facility and have 65 horses on it....and their putting horses down because they have no space? :confused:

You know, what ever DEFHR is or isn't doing, I'd like to hear how many of these horses YOU"RE PERSONALLY signing up to support? If you knew about that pony mare, why didn't YOU adopt her?

When you turn over a year's expense on each of these horses that you're making out to be victims of DEFHR, then I'll listen to you. How much money have you given for their expenses?

I'm sorry that your knickers are in a knot, but this is rediculous that you go on the attack about this when there are rescues out there actually starving animals.

Euthanasia is not the worst thing to happen to a horse. Your YouTube video out to be banned. Talk about self-centered glory seeker! Go get a life or actually ADOPT one of these horses your so worried about.

[catknsn]

Under what circumstances do you think a horse at a rescue should get euthanized?


Other than the normal reasons of disability, a horse at a rescue should be euthanized if it proves to be unpredictable and unsafe to ride despite normal efforts being made by a competent trainer. I also have no problem with horses who are unrideable due to disability being euthed - try to find a good home for a companion horse, I think I have more chance of marrying Chris Noth.

In general, I actually have NO problem with euthanasia for "unadoptables" - sure beats slaughter. Let's face it, how many unattractive, grade, bad-moving horses can you place even in the best of times? Whether people like it or not, we're going to have to start euthanizing surplus horses just like we do surplus cats and dogs until people get a clue and stop breeding what there's no market for.

I don't believe horses have any concept of death - I believe they care about the here and now, and if on their last day they get a few carrots and are fed well with fresh water and then are put down, that is really not such a bad thing.

Yup. I just put two down at once. One was almost completely blind (my old CBER mare) and while I'm sure the OP would argue I should have built her a padded paddock, SHE wasn't happy. She was scared and stressed and wanted to run like she used to. The other had torn a tendon and was an elderly ex-halter mare trying to support herself on three and a half legs. There was no fixing that. They had a wonderful morning, ate a whole bag of cookies and then the vet came and gave them a shot and they got sleepy and fell down. That's as much consciousness of the event as I believe they had. Not exactly traumatic. Sure beats slaughter.

[Still Workingonit]

Given I rescued a horse to euthaniase it - it had an horrific puncture wound that the owner wasnt treating and I had been feeding it and attempting to do some treatment - I think that the OP is not correct in her opinion. If I lived in the USA, I would donate to this rescue because of their Euthanasia policy.

[saje]

So Evesadopter, do you have anything more for us? How's the relocation going?

[evesadopter]

So Evesadopter, do you have anything more for us? How's the relocation going?

Actually I do!

Maggie May was killed because "she was too dangerous".

Here's a movie about this KILLER PONY!
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=5pRrif_dI-Q

I have the true Maggie story now. And it's SAD. :no: :( :no: :cry:


It wasn't necessary. :no:

[saje]

Sorry, I don't buy it. I know you loved the mare, but did YOU adopt her? Pay all her bills forever? Find a trainer? Why not? Your video shows the same 4 or 5 still pictures over and over again of a horse not put under any pressure to do anything other than stand there. If you had hours of footage of her being impeccable under saddle, standing for the farrier, the vet, learning new things, and never blowing up I *might* think differently. But I do know a bit of this mare's history, and her loving and quiet moments were interspersed with very difficult and downright dangerous behavior. There are too many horses out there that are suffering, and we can't save them all. Tough decisions HAVE to be made, and truly death is NOT a terrible thing for a horse, not unless it a death by starvation, neglect, catastophic injury - all those things that happen to horses who are not lucky enough to end up in a top notch rescue like DEFHR.


But... you are going to believe they are evil no matter what, so I guess I've wasted my breath and several minutes of my life.

[DMK]

Ouch. That, my sweet little evesadopter is an adorable little slide show with about 8 recycled pictures of a pony and some precious little slides neatly timed to give us the lyrics to the deeply emotional music track.

It is not and cannot be confused with anything like a case against (or for) euthanasia for that particular animal. It does not say or prove she was or was not dangerous. It is the true story of absolutely nothing as judged by every reasonable standard out there. In fact, about all it says is something about the creator of said video, and that is that this person appears to be an emotion wracked angst ridden teen, who in the way of teenagers is not likely to understand that we can't save them all and just maybe there are hard choices to be made by the adults.

[rescuemom]

I have the true Maggie story now. And it's SAD. :no: :( :no: :cry:

It wasn't necessary. :no:

Of course it's sad. It is sad every time it is necessary to euthanize a horse, any horse.

MaggieMae's unsafe status is witnessed in the latest video, in which she sports a yellow tag (how old is that photo?), and a red tag when being held by the child who, I understand, was not red-level rated. Days End horses are rated green, yellow or red depending on how safe a horse is for handling. So are volunteers, but they don't have to wear (duct tape) tags.

The OP will believe what she chooses to believe, as will everyone else reading this thread. I don't see how continuing videos, websites, petitions, mass e-mails and internet posts will help any of the 60+ horses at Days End. I'm thinking that, based on her actions, that the OP doesn't consider them worthy.

I do, and I always will. It's why I bothered to respond this time.

[tkhawk]

OP, I am not sure how old you are. I am sure you loved those horses/ponies. I love my horses and can't imagine them ending up in a slaughter plant somewhere down in mexico. Euthanasia is a much better and kinder option . It is a sad state of affairs today. As one who has dealt with a lot of loss in life-mostly human, I can understand how painful it might be. But such is life-it is part of a cycle and much as we humans may not want to admit it, we too are part of this cycle.. So hopefully you come to terms with it-it is part of growing up-assuming you are young...The rescue seems to be a nice rescue and I think that it is nice that they are looking at the quality of the horse's life vs. quantity. It is nice that horses can graze and have room to move about. She also appears to have put in a lot of years for he horses. Sometimes the horses have to come through too. Some maybe too far gone... Hope you feel better...

[J Swan]

I don't think you or rescuemom wasted your breath at all. Days End has an excellent reputation - it's a horse rescue that others should look up to - not down on.

The problem with people like the OP is that they spread falsehoods and misinformation - and it could damage your rescue. There are a lot of people that have had bad experiences with rescues, or have seen bad ones that are actually run by hoarders, charlatans, or lunatics. It would be all too easy for your Days End to get lumped in with those - just because of posts like the OP's.

And that would a great disservice to horses that are in need - even if the decision is to end their lives humanely after attempts to rehab and place them. Responsible decisions aren't about sunshine and rainbows and happy thoughts.

Anyway - I'm glad y'all posted and hope things are going well. Doing good rescue work is emotionally and physically draining - and I know you guys must be exhausted.

Stay your course. Best wishes.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I know you loved the mare, but did YOU adopt her? Pay all her bills forever? Find a trainer? Why not? Your video shows the same 4 or 5 still pictures over and over again of a horse not put under any pressure to do anything other than stand there. If you had hours of footage of her being impeccable under saddle, standing for the farrier, the vet, learning new things, and never blowing up I *might* think differently. But I do know a bit of this mare's history, and her loving and quiet moments were interspersed with very difficult and downright dangerous behavior. There are too many horses out there that are suffering, and we can't save them all. Tough decisions HAVE to be made, and truly death is NOT a terrible thing for a horse, not unless it a death by starvation, neglect, catastophic injury - all those things that happen to horses who are not lucky enough to end up in a top notch rescue like DEFHR.


But... you are going to believe they are evil no matter what, so I guess I've wasted my breath and several minutes of my life.

[tkhawk]

Well what is the truth??

[J Swan]

If you have evidence of animal cruelty or neglect - report it to Animal Control.

Otherwise - shut the hell up. In case you haven't noticed, no one is nibbling at the bait.


ETA - tkhawk - sorry - my post was not directed at you!!! Oops!

[evesadopter]

Well what is the truth??

I'll PM you

[apcohrs]

*snort*

[tkhawk]

Well what is the truth??

OP did you delete your quote?? My above one was a respondse to yours -I think it said something along the lines of we guys don't get it. But what is it that we don't get???

[tkhawk]

If you have evidence of animal cruelty or neglect - report it to Animal Control.

Otherwise - shut the hell up. In case you haven't noticed, no one is nibbling at the bait.


ETA - tkhawk - sorry - my post was not directed at you!!! Oops!

Oh no I was responding to OP-I think she deleted the post... OP would like to hear your sid ein public though. Because when you say someone is killing their horses for no reason-that is starting to sound like the other two unpopular rescues we hear about .. It is one thing to be angry/sad, but this person does not sound like Celeita-so most of us would like to hear both sides before accepting that this recscue goes around killing horses for no reason...

[Sithly]

Rescuemom,

I watched your video. GREAT job with the before and after. You are the type of rescuer that makes not hate rescuers. :lol:

So ... good on ya.

[Kate66]

Evesadopter,

I am sorry that a horse you obviously cared so much with was euthanised. Death is a very, very difficult thing to handle, especially if you felt that it was uneccessary. I suspect that there were a lot of things going on that you perhaps didn't have total visibility into. I volunteer with a rescue in TX and perhaps feel that there are more horses that should be euthanised. Every horse that is saved, that is not adopted, costs hundreds a month to keep. For every horse that stays a long time in a rescue there are many other horses that end up not being rescued. It's a trade off unfortunately, not something you want to hear when you loved that horse so much, but by letting one or two horses go that had had a good life, albeit shorter than you wanted, it has freed up the space and money for other horses that hopefully will be able to find long term homes.

[rescuemom]

Thanks, Sithly! We are so fortunate to have a good number of volunteers who post great YouTube videos about us and our horses. :D

[Bentley]

Actually I do!

Maggie May was killed because "she was too dangerous".

Here's a movie about this KILLER PONY!
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=5pRrif_dI-Q

I have the true Maggie story now. And it's SAD. :no: :( :no: :cry:

It wasn't necessary. :no:

So if the adopters loved her so much and had her for two years why did she end up back at the rescue? Why didn't she have a forever home with them? And if every horse is adoptable, why did they un-adopt her? Why didn't you adopt her? Again, I think there's more to the story. If people are going to relinquish their rights as adopters, then they (or you as an outsider) have absolutely no right to then bemoan the fate of the pony that they made someone else's problem. The only way you can control what happens to a horse is to own / adopt it yourself, and then it can live the life that you want. But I think I'm about the 9485354th person that has mentioned this so blatently obvious point and you still.just.don't.seem.to.get.it. Seriously, my mellow is so harshed.

It's funny how on the youtube sites you'll only post comments that agree with yours. But look what happens on this forum where people are actually able to tell you how it really is. Your passion and drive are admirable, but your focus is on the wrong people. Get mad at the original owners who caused the starvation or mistreatment or abandonment. Get mad at the "trainers" who overface horses and scare them past the point of safety. Get mad at the world for not allowing all horses to live a long and happy life in a green field filled with faeries and daisies where everyone gets along and horses pee whiskey and poop butterflies. But why get mad at a well run, well respected rescue that is trying its hardest to rescue as many horses they can, and place as many as possible.

Seriously, how do you think that pictures of Maggie are the TRUE story. Heck, some of the most dangerous horses I've known have also been the most photogenic, most talented and even the most likeable..... But that doesn't mean that the pretty horse won't spook spin and buck every time a saddle is put on, or the talented one won't rear and flip over when it is asked to work, or the likeable one won't break your arm when it pulls back because you moved too quickly around its head. My TB mare was stunning, but she had a spin/rear move that would leave most in the dirt nine times out of ten. After three years trying to work through it she ended up in a field because I didn't want to risk selling her to someone as a jumper and have her flip over on them. But I have tons of gorgeous pictures of her, hanging in a paddock, draped over her neck, jumping bigish fences. But she was still dangerous.

Oh, and the innuendo - "I'll tell you about the REAL goings on in a PM" is just gossipy bull. If you don't have the guts to post it here (likely b/c you know the reaction), then don't snidely suggest that you've got all the "insider's information" in the hopes that we'll be on your side.

Wow, can't remember the last time I posted on this board. OP, I really hope you one day can see past the black beauty or misty of chincoteague stories and realize that reality means hard choices, and sometimes the happy endings for horses is a quick and painful death. And sometimes that death may lead to numerous other happy endings that wouldn't have been possible without some hard decisions being made.

[trubandloki]

Hey Evesadopter you seem to be avoiding the questions you are being asked. Instead of spewing emotions every where why not answer the questions with some facts. Did you offer to pay board on these horses that you feel were wrongly put down? Did you offer to adopt them? Were you willing to pay their way?

To me it sounds like the rescue is being very responsible. Two thumbs up to the rescue for doing the right thing.

[Moderator 1]

We permitted this thread as a general discussion about euthanasia policies in rescues; not as a means for accusations to be made against a specific rescue. We're closing the thread.

Thanks,
Mod 1