why stand up when horse pees?

[eventer131034]

when we are riding and our horses pee why do we sand in the saddle? Everyone says it gets our wieght off their backs, but we are on the horse with the same amount of weight wheither we are standing or sitting. what are your thoughts about this?

[county]

Never done it and until now never heard of it.

[mjrtango93]

Its not even so much to get the weight off their backs (and yes you are lighter when standing in the stirrups then sitting like a sack of potatoes), but it's to not be sitting on the kidneys. I think you would prefer somebody not be sitting on your kidneys when you pee. Also horses tend to stretch out quite a bit to pee, and when you stand up you normally lean forward and your weight goes more over the shoulder so its more stable for them.

[Gruff Pastures]

Hmmm. I've heard the kidney thing too, but I don't get it....urine is stored in the bladder not the kidneys.

[bugsynskeeter]

Hmmm. I've heard the kidney thing too, but I don't get it....urine is stored in the bladder not the kidneys.

Exactly. And if you ultrasound a horse, its not like their kidneys are where you are sitting anyhow.

Was told this for years and always did so...until I actually thought about it.

[MistyBlue]

Horses stand up to pee because otherwise they get all wet if they're laying down and pee. :winkgrin: :lol: :winkgrin:

[RNB]

Horses stand up to pee because otherwise they get all wet if they're laying down and pee. :winkgrin: :lol: :winkgrin:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[talkofthetown]

Was told this for years and always did so...until I actually thought about it.

Me, too. Interesting question, I'd like to see what other people say about it.

[7HL]

Never done it and until now never heard of it.

Never heaard of it. Don't do it either.


So what do you do when a horse poops? :eek:

[bugsynskeeter]

Never heaard of it. Don't do it either.


So what do you do when a horse poops? :eek:

Keep on riding. I don't allow them to stop. They can't stop in the show pen, they sure as heck aren't gonna stop in the practice pen.

[county]

Yep just keep riding. My horses can poop and move at the same time they do it every day in the pastures.

[Quin]

Horse poops = keep riding, using whatever aids are necessary so as not to break gait. They can do it out in the pasture, so they can do it when I'm on board. And it's mandatory to keep moving while showing, so we might as well do it in practice too.

Horse pees = get up off the back, in a two-point position, as dictated by every H/J trainer I have ever known. I know my gelding stretches waaaaaaay back when he pees (and grunts or groans the entire time: my worst nightmare is that he'll do it some day at a show, in front of the judge's stand, with an open mike....:o). Just the stretching alone would probably be uncomfortable for him with someone sitting on his back.

[Freebird!]

I personally think it's an old wives tale about getting off their kidneys, BUT....I will lean forward to help them balance - especially my two, who both insist of standing on their hind tippy toes.

[Ambrey]

Its not even so much to get the weight off their backs (and yes you are lighter when standing in the stirrups then sitting like a sack of potatoes), but it's to not be sitting on the kidneys. I think you would prefer somebody not be sitting on your kidneys when you pee. Also horses tend to stretch out quite a bit to pee, and when you stand up you normally lean forward and your weight goes more over the shoulder so its more stable for them.

That's what I've heard, that it's uncomfortable for them to pee when our weight is on their kidneys. Not sure if it has any basis in fact ;)

[Thomas_1]

Nothing to do with kidneys or bladder more to do with creating the right conditions and being comfortable for your horse.

The horse adopts a position to pee that in effect means it has to stop and stand and stretch with fore and hind legs extended.

Watch them in the wild or in the field and they do it just the same. They never ever urinate when on the move. Defecate yes, but not urinate. In the wild they need to be comfortable and confident to urinate and its a way of saying to your horse, "take your time"

Then it carries a rider comfortably when its balanced over its legs, and when its stomach muscles are engaged and it's back lifted and stretched. The p'ing position changes that - so when on board when a horse is getting ready to P, you'll feel its back drop and the change in the position.

So you stand in your stirrups so the horse is free to urinate comfortably and get its legs under it.

You might be interested in knowing that carriage drivers sometimes still train their horses to stand in this position and because its a position that makes it difficult for a horse to take a step. So in the old days when carriages were common transport, they did it whilst the passengers were mounting the vehicle and until they were all safely seated in the carriage.

In the UK all riders are taught the above as basic "how to ride" stuff. Though in truth most often aren't told all the reasons or else forget in the myriad of stuff they are learning and so often end up thinking the horse can't pee if they don't stand! Which is fair enough, so long as they know to stand to make the horse comfortable.

[Frank B]

I've always stood in the stirrups because the horse felt more balanced when spread and stretched out.

[tkhawk]

Well I guess I just stand when my horse is peeing because I was taught that way. They do change their posture...I think Thomas1's explanation makes senses. I don't stop when pooping though-we keep moving...

[MsM]

I don't think just standing would help much. But as was mentioned, most people lean forward when standing, and I think that does help. I was actually taught as a kid to lean forward and grab mane when the horse started to pee. This should put you over the forehand and off the horse's back while it was in a weakened, stretched out position.
Of course my horse rarely pees under saddle. If I take him in from turnout to ride I have to put him in his stall for a few minutes to pee. He "saves up" to go in his stall:rolleyes: If I ride him and he has to pee, he will get fussy and difficult, but will rarely pee. Annoying!

[twofatponies]

I have one old mare who will pee "in public" - but it must be only in emergencies, because in 8 years she's only done it a few times, on long rides. I mean that she stopped mid-ride, pulled herself over off the trail and took a pee, rather than doing it while we were stopped for a break or dismounted.

I was always taught to stand up a bit - Thomas's explanation makes sense, more than the kidney explanation.

[War Admiral]

You might be interested in knowing that carriage drivers sometimes still train their horses to stand in this position and because its a position that makes it difficult for a horse to take a step. So in the old days when carriages were common transport, they did it whilst the passengers were mounting the vehicle and until they were all safely seated in the carriage.

Not to derail the thread but Thomas, here's a great old illustration (http://www.green.meads.com/Parking.html) with a commentary by Jeff Morse.

Of course, over here, "fine" harness horses (http://www.modern-saddlebred.com/gv_classic_08/1/images/ma0e6753.jpg) (and wannabes) are still expected to do it in the show ring, not only in harness but under saddle and in hand as well! :yes: IN the U.K., I expect you would only see the Hackney ponies doing it.

[Amwrider]

I was told to do it to get off their kidneys but I now know that you don't sit on the kidneys so I have my riders do it just to allow the horses to stretch out comfortably.

I make my lesson students keep the horses going at the walk or trot when they poop. "Keep him going Susie, he can walk and poop at the same time."

Funny story, we were having a "practice show" at our barn and all the show riders and parents were there. My then 6 year old niece was riding the old 29 yer old lesson horse, Rozzi, who decided to stop to take a horsie fart, not a poop, just a raised tail fart.

"Emmy, keep Rozzi going, he can walk and toot at the same time."

Emmy's reply, "So can I."

The parents still laugh about that one.

[7HL]

Keep on riding. I don't allow them to stop.Since I have never heard of having to stand when my horse pees and I don't was just being slightly sarcastic. My horse rarely pees under saddle.

Mine usually only does poop when I have allowed her to stop, but occasionally on the trail its just poop as she is moving. Since our horses are mainly trail horses and we are not showing it's not that big a deal. I am very aware when riding what going on with them.

Still the best answer:

Horses stand up to pee because otherwise they get all wet if they're laying down and pee. :winkgrin: :lol: :winkgrin:

[mayhew]

I'd like to hear from a vet if it makes any biological sense at all to stand in the saddle when the horse is peeing. Two issues: one, does your weight truly change places when you stand up and lean forward? Your weight is still in the stirrups, which are still attached to the saddle, which is still on your horse's back. I thought the whole point of a well-fitting saddle was that it evenly distrubted the rider's weight. What do the laws of physics actually say about this? And two, is there actually any biological danger to the horse to have a weight on their back, wherever that weight may go, while they are peeing?

Horsepeople do so many things that make no sense, scientifically. Is this yet another one? We have some ridiculously bright, scientific minds on this board. Someone must know.

[Nezzy]

my horse is comfortable peeing on the trail, Usually when we are in grass, but i never stand up. There is no reason for it. I tell my horse he is a good boy, so he is not afraid to pee on the trail( i want my horse to be comfortable) i give him the time to pee, then i ask him to walk on.

[Liberty]

He "saves up" to go in his stall:rolleyes: If I ride him and he has to pee, he will get fussy and difficult, but will rarely pee. Annoying!

Reminds me of the time I had to haul in to my farrier years ago. It was about a 2-hour trip, and my gelding did get some time hand-grazing while my mare was being trimmed. However, about 15 minutes into his trim, he got very fussy and difficult, which was completely out of character for him.

After a few minutes of trying to deal with his antsy-ness, my farrier said, "Hey, try taking him over to that grassy area to see if he has to pee"...bingo! That was it. Poor boy just had to go and was doing the horsey equivalent of trying to keep his legs crossed. :lol:

[arena run]

Never really seen my horses walk and poop at liberty.

Now cows? Yes...

ALL

THE

TIME.

:)

But horses? They generally stop to plop.


The only exception would be if they've got really runny poop and it doesn't take quite the 'effort' to expel it. sylvia

[arena run]

I'd like to hear from a vet if it makes any biological sense at all to stand in the saddle when the horse is peeing. Two issues: one, does your weight truly change places when you stand up and lean forward? Your weight is still in the stirrups, which are still attached to the saddle, which is still on your horse's back. I thought the whole point of a well-fitting saddle was that it evenly distrubted the rider's weight. What do the laws of physics actually say about this? And two, is there actually any biological danger to the horse to have a weight on their back, wherever that weight may go, while they are peeing?

Horsepeople do so many things that make no sense, scientifically. Is this yet another one? We have some ridiculously bright, scientific minds on this board. Someone must know.


Do you have a 12yo you can piggy back?

Ask them to lean back slightly. Just enough so that there's several inches of space between them and your back.

THen ask them to lean up onto your shoulder so that they're looking over it a tad.

Any difference? I'm willing to bet there will be.

Their leg position didn't change. Their hand position didn't change. Their weight is still behind you but it's easier to carry them when they change position and become closer to your own center of gravity.

Not saying whether getting off their back or not does anything for the PEEING but it certainly does change your weight distribution. sylvia

[jenm]

About a year or so ago, Equus Magazine printed a short article about whether people should shift into a two point while horses pee. Turns out it's not necessary at all and only serves to make riders look silly. (That was pretty much what the article said.)

[birdsong]

About a year or so ago, Equus Magazine printed a short article about whether people should shift into a two point while horses pee. Turns out it's not necessary at all and only serves to make riders look silly. (That was pretty much what the article said.)

I've been riding for almost 47 years with a few skips in between. As a child/young adult it was never heard of to stand for the horse to pee. Now as a "knowledgeable" adult I have found myself imitating others that do. I've always felt a bit ridiculous and realized that it was probably uncalled for....still think that's the case, unless maybe you are a very large person.

[Beverley]

I do stand when mine pee, mainly to free up their back muscles since they are in a bit of an awkward stance to begin with. I'll have to sit a few times and see if there's a difference on the horse's part.:)

Bigger thing for me though is that with a stand in the stirrups and a whistle, you can condition horses to pee on command. This can be very helpful when, for example, you have a group of riding and pack horses nearly to where they will be camping in the back country for the night. If you can encourage them to empty the bladders say, 1/4 mile or so from where you are camping, well, you have that much less horse pee to worry about in camp.

As for pooping. They really do prefer to stand and poop. They really don't like to soil themselves. You'll see them avoid stepping in poop when on the trail or working in an arena. So, yes, if I'm in no hurry, I'll let them pause to poop. They seem to appreciate it. They will keep moving at whatever speed they are at to poop, if I ask them. And moving while pooping does help to spread the manure on the trails so it will dry faster.

[Quin]

It is not physically necessary for you to be up off the horse's back in order for him to pee. It is also not phsyically necessary for you to be up off the horse's back in order for him to jump; people jumped and field hunted for centuries without doing so. But just as we now believe it is better to let him use his back more freely when jumping (no matter how well modern saddles 'distribute the weight'), I have no problem getting into a forward two-point when he wants to strech out and stand on his tippy-toes to pee.

[ThreeBarPocoGal]

Especially with a male horse they have to line up all the equipment in order to pee, you get off his back so you don't hurt the kidneys.

[Miss-O]

I've heard this argument before and was never able to understand it.

Why in the world would sitting on your horses kidneys be okay when you are riding but not when they are peeing? And pee isn't stored in the kidneys anyways. Not to mention the fact that in a horse that isn't where their kidneys are anyway.

As for standing to relieve their back muscles.....Horses are asked to park out all the time while carrying a rider. Actually from what I was taught the orgin of having a horse park out at all was to help a rider mount up. So if a horse can stand parked out comfortably while a human is mounting I'm sure they can stand parked out to pee with a person sitting quietly in the saddle.

And yes Equus magazine did have an article that pretty much said it was an old wives tale that you had to stand in the stirrups for them to pee.

[7HL]

Especially with a male horse they have to line up all the equipment in order to pee, you get off his back so you don't hurt the kidneys.


You have to be kidding me!:lol:

Must be a woman or little girl. When my horse Thor drops, to pee, he's not lining up anything.:lol::winkgrin::lol:

[Curb Appeal]

I was taught it was to get my weight up over the shoulders to make it easier for the horse to balance while parked out.

[Sue from Auckland]

...... Actually from what I was taught the orgin of having a horse park out at all was to help a rider mount up. So if a horse can stand parked out comfortably while a human is mounting I'm sure they can stand parked out to pee with a person sitting quietly in the saddle. Might have helped the rider, but doubt if it helped the horse or was comfortable for it.

[Leather]

I'm so glad somebody asked this question!!! The "stand to get off their kidneys" sentiment runs rampant in my hunt, which drives me batty.

I've had people shriek at me "he's peeing--stand up--his kidneys!!!"

Given that I'm still pretty new with the hunt I resist the urge to be snarky and say "if my saddle is anywhere near his kidneys we've got bigger problems than me standing up!"

I do understand shifting your weight forward a bit when they park out to help them balance. The irony is with the folks that stand straight up and use the reins to balance, thinking they are helping their horse. :lol:

[Eyemadonkee]

My horse respects that the ring is not his personal toilet and holds it until he gets back into his stall. :winkgrin: That was his decision, btw.

[Rubyfree]

It is not physically necessary for you to be up off the horse's back in order for him to pee. It is also not phsyically necessary for you to be up off the horse's back in order for him to jump; people jumped and field hunted for centuries without doing so. But just as we now believe it is better to let him use his back more freely when jumping (no matter how well modern saddles 'distribute the weight'), I have no problem getting into a forward two-point when he wants to strech out and stand on his tippy-toes to pee.

My trainer growing up used to use a gelding peeing undersaddle as a practice point, and told us that we were getting off of their backs for the same reason we got off of their backs jumping- to get the hell out of their way. I don't know how necessary it is, but my two point is exemplary. :)

[Beasmom]

Teaching a horse to "park" is hard on their backs. Maybe not so bad for driving, but definitely bad for the ridden horse. Note that lordosis is so prevalent among saddlebred horses....

When they're "Parked", whether for the purposes of mounting or peeing, the back is not in an efficient position to support weight. Stand up over their shoulders to aid the horse. Equus magazine be damned!

[Dazednconfused]

Teaching a horse to "park" is hard on their backs. Maybe not so bad for driving, but definitely bad for the ridden horse. Note that lordosis is so prevalent among saddlebred horses....

When they're "Parked", whether for the purposes of mounting or peeing, the back is not in an efficient position to support weight. Stand up over their shoulders to aid the horse. Equus magazine be damned!

I was under the impression that lordosis was a genetic condition. I'm sure parking out doesn't help matters, but lots of morgans are trained to park out too, and I have not heard of it being a problem in that breed.

[Beasmom]

Point taken, Dazed, but Morgans (the ones who've been taught to Park) manifest other problems related to parking. Many years ago (like 20 or 25!) I attended a Linda Tellington Jones TTeam clinic. Never mind that the clinic was largely attended by the lunatic fringe of the horse world, people looking for a magic bullet for their sorry horsemanship. One of the horses was a Morgan who insisted on parking whenever he was halted. LTT pointed out the dangers of the parked position, among them stress on the back especially while mounted.

[Nezzy]

How do all you standers know you are helping the situation by standing? maybe you are making it more uncomfortable for your horse.

[Beverley]

How do all you standers know you are helping the situation by standing? maybe you are making it more uncomfortable for your horse.

Well, you certainly can't make it any more uncomfortable for a horse by adjusting your position so as to more closely align with the horse's center of gravity- front end. As has been noted, jockeys and riders jumping horses used to sit down and yes, those horses won long races and jumped lots of fences. But- over time people figured out that getting up off your horse's back for both racing and jumping produced better results- horses that ran faster and jumped higher. Makes sense that a horse made more comfy by an adjustment to the rider's position can perform better.

When moving at speed out foxhunting, I am always up out of the saddle to save the horse's back- since out hunting you never quite know for sure how many miles you have yet to travel. The horses seem to appreciate that- and they don't get sore backed. They also seem more comfortable if I am up out of the saddle when negotiating steep hills.

[Nezzy]

But this is peeing. Not moving forward. I Remember the article in Equus that says it is unnecessary and i believe that. My horse will pee on every ride, if he finds grass, and I do not do anything but sit still and pat him on the neck. If i was causing him discomfort, i doubt he would want to go while on the trail.

[Miss-O]

I realize that a parked position isn't the greatest in regards to a horses back. (however I don't think it's THAT terrible either unless your asking your horse to stand parked for extended periods of time).

My point was that if a horse can stand parked while someone is mounting then they can stand "parked out" to pee for 30 sec's with a rider sitting still in the saddle.

[goeslikestink]

But this is peeing. Not moving forward. I Remember the article in Equus that says it is unnecessary and i believe that. My horse will pee on every ride, if he finds grass, and I do not do anything but sit still and pat him on the neck. If i was causing him discomfort, i doubt he would want to go while on the trail.

did you not read thomas 1 post

in uk its the norm to stand up in stirrups whilse a horse pee's

[Nezzy]

Yes i read all the posts. What are you getting at?

[Beverley]

But this is peeing. Not moving forward. I Remember the article in Equus that says it is unnecessary and i believe that. My horse will pee on every ride, if he finds grass, and I do not do anything but sit still and pat him on the neck. If i was causing him discomfort, i doubt he would want to go while on the trail.

You asked the question 'how do you know you aren't making the horse more uncomfortable by standing while he pees' and I answered it. The point I was trying to make is that whether standing still to pee or moving at speed, in my experience the horses seem more comfortable (not more uncomfortable) when I take the trouble to balance myself over their center of gravity. So, since I like for my horses to be comfortable, I stand up when they pee. As Quin noted, it's not necessary. I choose to do it anyway. Just try both ways on your horse and see what you think.

[BuddyRoo]

I'm just absolutely shocked so many of you have horses who WILL urinate while you're riding!!!

I have never owned nor ridden a horse who would urinate while there was a rider aboard.

In fact...even when we were on long rides--out getting cattle or long trail rides--we always too pee breaks ourselves and that's when the horses did it.

Even now in more of a show/lesson/brief ride scenario, I know horses who MUST have the opportunity to urinate in a stall first or will urinate directly following a ride...again, in the stall, tied to a trailer, IN the trailer or while in hand...but I can honestly say that in 30 years, I've never been on a horse while they urinated. This is intriguing to me. LOL

[rcloisonne]

I must not ride enough because I've never had a single horse try to pee while I was riding it nor have I ever seen one try it with other riders. And I've never heard of standing in two point should it happen. Get off their kidneys indeed! :lol:

[gabz]

I personally think it's an old wives tale about getting off their kidneys, BUT....I will lean forward to help them balance - especially my two, who both insist of standing on their hind tippy toes.

I've heard the old wives tale too, but my gelding stretches out to pee - so hopefully, tipping forward takes weight off his back end to allow him to pee in comfort.

Some mares get into strange positions, but I can't think of any that stretch out like a gelding (or stallion) would... do they?

[rabicon]

I do it also, always have, just did it this weekend at the show :winkgrin: Pooping on the other hand he keeps moving :yes:

[CHorseFarm]

Dunno - but I was trained to stand up while my horse peed - and pooped. An, yes, I say poopoed vs poo.:)

[ThreeBarPocoGal]

Um no I'm not a little girl...

When the horse stretches out to pee the kidneys come up, you stand up to take some of the pressure off of them. A mare does not have to park out as much, but geldings and stallions physically have to. A mare can run and pee at the same time, a male horse cannot.

[SuperSTB]

I'm just absolutely shocked so many of you have horses who WILL urinate while you're riding!!!

I have never owned nor ridden a horse who would urinate while there was a rider aboard.

In fact...even when we were on long rides--out getting cattle or long trail rides--we always too pee breaks ourselves and that's when the horses did it.

Even now in more of a show/lesson/brief ride scenario, I know horses who MUST have the opportunity to urinate in a stall first or will urinate directly following a ride...again, in the stall, tied to a trailer, IN the trailer or while in hand...but I can honestly say that in 30 years, I've never been on a horse while they urinated. This is intriguing to me. LOL

Same with my girls- they would never 'pee in public' :D Oh how totally uncivilized! They will gladly wait for some nice shavings in the stall or trailer.

But on the other hand... shit happens... anywhere. (including the slightly sloppy kind- in harness- at the trot :( )

[Dazednconfused]

Um no I'm not a little girl...

When the horse stretches out to pee the kidneys come up, you stand up to take some of the pressure off of them. A mare does not have to park out as much, but geldings and stallions physically have to. A mare can run and pee at the same time, a male horse cannot.

As people have already wisely pointed out, urine is stored in the bladder, not the kidneys. Stand or don't stand, I don't think it matters a great deal - but it is certainly not going to change the biological fact that urine isn't in the kidneys:lol:

[Nezzy]

As people have already wisely pointed out, urine is stored in the bladder, not the kidneys. Stand or don't stand, I don't think it matters a great deal - but it is certainly not going to change the biological fact that urine isn't in the kidneys:lol:

Thank you. :D

[ThreeBarPocoGal]

As people have already wisely pointed out, urine is stored in the bladder, not the kidneys. Stand or don't stand, I don't think it matters a great deal - but it is certainly not going to change the biological fact that urine isn't in the kidneys:lol:


Not the point...when the horse parks the kidneys move up and it's uncomfortable for the horse to have your weight there when that happens so you stand up and lean over the shoulders.

[Quin]

And where else but on CoTH can we spend an entire holiday weekend arguing about whether it our horses are happier if we get up out of the saddle when they pee?

:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin:

Love you guys!

[Dazednconfused]

Not the point...when the horse parks the kidneys move up and it's uncomfortable for the horse to have your weight there when that happens so you stand up and lean over the shoulders.

Really? Are you sure about that?

http://www.photonictorch.com/images/rightview.jpg

Where are they going to go, exactly? :lol:

Besides the fact that I don't think organs move around. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really do not think that's true.

[2ndyrgal]

think if your horse pees while you sit your lazy butt on his back it must not bother him, let me point out that if not given ANY OTHER CHOICE, you'll pee in your car in a traffic jam, you'll pee in an empty stall, behind a bush, in the men's room, you get the idea. If you must, you will. Doesn't mean you'll like it though. Put your feet shoulder width apart, put your hands on the arm of a chair. Think about having to pee in this position. Now have a wiggly impatient six year old child sit on your back. Put a bit in your mouth and let him play with it. Invite your friends in to watch. Seems like a small thing to make a horse comfortable. Don't know why you wouldn't.

[SuperSTB]

And where else but on CoTH can we spend an entire holiday weekend arguing about whether it our horses are happier if we get up out of the saddle when they pee?

:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin:

Love you guys!

I know- the Great Pee Debate of 2008.

[county]

2ndygal, our lazy butt? Or maybe your confused with " your dumb ass "?

[Sithly]

Um no I'm not a little girl...

When the horse stretches out to pee the kidneys come up, you stand up to take some of the pressure off of them. A mare does not have to park out as much, but geldings and stallions physically have to. A mare can run and pee at the same time, a male horse cannot.
(Emphasis mine.)

Yes, they can. I used to drive a Belgian gelding who'd pee while walking or trotting. There wasn't anything wrong with him; he just wouldn't stop moving until you told him to stop, so if he really had to pee, out it came no matter what you were doing.

[Beasmom]

EEEEEWWWWWWW!

Gosh, Buddyroo, you just haven't LIVED till you've had a horse pee while you're riding it. Have to say, my gelding's more likely to urinate during a ride than my mare - unless she's in heat. Then she takes every opportunity to "advertise".

Mares tend to "straddle" more than geldings or stallions. Both lift their backs while voiding, at least in my experience. I stand up over the shoulders because while straddling or parking, the horse does not have its hind legs in a good position to support extra weight (that would be me).

As far as the moving kidney idea, well, if the horse lifts its back to urinate (as mine do -- there may be those who do not; I wouldn't know) it stands to reason the kidneys move with the rest of the horse's innards. Otherwise, I can't imagine they'd move very far!

[LarkspurCO]

Not the point...when the horse parks the kidneys move up and it's uncomfortable for the horse to have your weight there when that happens so you stand up and lean over the shoulders.


My horse had his kidneys examined by ultrasound today. The right kidney was accessed from a spot high up on his right flank, not through the back. Not where your tush would be. Nowhere near the vicinity of the saddle. The vet pointed the ultrasound wand thingie up and showed me the huge layer of muscle above the kidney. This was the horse's lower back, which he referred to as his "pork tenderloins."

The left kidney was accessed via the rectum. The left kidney is way deep down in there, even farther from the saddle -- and your tush -- than the right kidney.

If you can sit on a horse's kidneys, you must have supernatural talents.:lol:

[ab06]

Totally not a scientific opinion here, but while out hunting it seems like lots of the horses take the opportunity to pee during checks. It's tough to notice on your own horse sometimes, so people helpfully point it out to whomever is on board. I've noticed time and time again that the, ahem, flow increases dramatically when a rider stands up. Seems to me that must mean it is easier on them.

[Nezzy]

think if your horse pees while you sit your lazy butt on his back it must not bother him, let me point out that if not given ANY OTHER CHOICE, you'll pee in your car in a traffic jam, you'll pee in an empty stall, behind a bush, in the men's room, you get the idea. If you must, you will. Doesn't mean you'll like it though. Put your feet shoulder width apart, put your hands on the arm of a chair. Think about having to pee in this position. Now have a wiggly impatient six year old child sit on your back. Put a bit in your mouth and let him play with it. Invite your friends in to watch. Seems like a small thing to make a horse comfortable. Don't know why you wouldn't.

b/c it does not bother him.

[paohatch]

I personally think it's an old wives tale about getting off their kidneys

read this recently as a mythbuster fact as well but still go into 2-point anyway from years of being told to do so.:)

[goeslikestink]

And where else but on CoTH can we spend an entire holiday weekend arguing about whether it our horses are happier if we get up out of the saddle when they pee?

:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin: :winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin:

Love you guys!

ha ha -- to P or not to P--------that is the question - ha ha

[Beasmom]

I don't understand why a rider would NOT get up off a horse's back while it's in the "urinating" position. It's awkward enough for the horse WITHOUT weight on its back. It "may not bother him", but I'll wager most horses appreciate the weight shift forward while they're doing their thing.

It's such a small gesture in the interest of the animal's comfort. Nezzy, why don't you try it once or twice and see for yourself?

[SmartAlex]

I was under the impression that lordosis was a genetic condition. I'm sure parking out doesn't help matters, but lots of morgans are trained to park out too, and I have not heard of it being a problem in that breed.


Lordosis is a genetic condition. The horse will have it regardless if it has ever been parked out or even ridden for that matter.

[fernie fox]

I have seen and ridden many horses that,do not like to pee,until you get off their back.

If I am hunting all day I want the horse to pee when ever he needs to.

Many geldings will dither about with their hinds,until you get off their back[ie stand in stirrups and move your weight forwards] then they will finish stretching out for a good pee.

Many times I have watched geldings trying to set up to pee,and their ignorant owners make them move forwards.

I truly think the owners just dont understand the horse wants to pee,I often say,your horse wants to pee,please stand in your stirrups ,that will help him balance himself to pee.

They are amazed that I could tell their horse was trying to pee.

Ignorance of the rider is not good for some geldings.

[CHorseFarm]

I was taught to stand when they pee or poop.:confused:

[see u at x]

I know- the Great Pee Debate of 2008.

Well, it certainly is much more entertaining and interesting than the Pissing Contest going on with our Presidential Election this year. ;)

[Huntertwo]

I'm just absolutely shocked so many of you have horses who WILL urinate while you're riding!!!

I have never owned nor ridden a horse who would urinate while there was a rider aboard.

In fact...even when we were on long rides--out getting cattle or long trail rides--we always too pee breaks ourselves and that's when the horses did it.

Even now in more of a show/lesson/brief ride scenario, I know horses who MUST have the opportunity to urinate in a stall first or will urinate directly following a ride...again, in the stall, tied to a trailer, IN the trailer or while in hand...but I can honestly say that in 30 years, I've never been on a horse while they urinated. This is intriguing to me. LOL

LOl.... My mare will stop right on the trail, assume the position and pee..:yes:

[2ndyrgal]

You usually don't get so touchy when someone disagrees with you. My point was, since you missed it, my dumb ass will explain it to you in short, one sylable words. If it only takes a small thing on your part to "possibly" make your horse a bit more comfortable while he pees, since his is toting your "lazy butt" around, the very least you can do, in a polite, gentlemanly sort of way, is stand a bit in your stirrups, lean a bit forward and let him get on with doing what he needs to do. I usually disagree with you. You are probably right about there being no ill effects, no medical or anatomical (oops sorry, big word) reason for doing so. It just seems kind. You can only piss higher on the wall than me if you hold yours.

[CHorseFarm]

You can only piss higher on the wall than me if you hold yours.

'Splain, please:confused:

[amastrike]

My horse respects that the ring is not his personal toilet and holds it until he gets back into his stall. :winkgrin: That was his decision, btw.

Mine too! In the two and a half years that I've been riding him, he has pooped twice while being ridden, and peed twice while being ridden (and actually, neither time was in the ring). The first time he pooed, I was *shocked*. And both times he's peed is when he has spent a lot of time outside his stall and just couldn't hold it anymore.

[Nezzy]

I don't understand why a rider would NOT get up off a horse's back while it's in the "urinating" position. It's awkward enough for the horse WITHOUT weight on its back. It "may not bother him", but I'll wager most horses appreciate the weight shift forward while they're doing their thing.

It's such a small gesture in the interest of the animal's comfort. Nezzy, why don't you try it once or twice and see for yourself?

Actually i used to do it. but it has been proven to be a MYTH. Unnecessary. i love my horse, and his comfort is always important to me. He is obviously not having a problem with my staying in place or he'd stop peeing on the trail.

[riverbell93]

I wonder if schoolhorses, depending on how their owners instruct students, become accustomed to having people stand for them, because I don't often see them try to pee unless the rider gets up. The schoolie I ride most often laid down with me a while ago because it was hot and he was itchy and I was not paying attention (bastard :lol:) and it came back to bite him because the initial movements for lying down and peeing are similar enough that for a while afterward I responded to his efforts to 'park out' with some asperity, thinking he was going for a roll again. Poor horse;)

[Beasmom]

Well, Nezz, I'm glad I'm not your horse. I believe getting up off the horse's back to urinate for its comfort is NOT a myth. The laws of physics and equine structure lead me to believe, logically, that shifting weight forward over the front legs is the right thing to do.

So you may sit down on your horse, but I'll choose to stand when he urinates.

[Nezzy]

Well, Studies say otherwise. I'm glad you're not my horse, too.

[Beverley]

Well, Studies say otherwise. I'm glad you're not my horse, too.

There are good studies, and bad studies. Because something appeared in Equus (or any other publication for that matter) would not automatically make it authoritative or sound science. If you trust a magazine article more than decades of experience by knowledgeable horsemen...well, okay, whatever.

You say your horse 'is obviously not having a problem' because he is still peeing on the trail with you sitting down in the saddle. Are you qualified to determine the difference? Do you know how to read a horse's body language?

Sorry, but it sounds to me more like rationalization on your part than a genuine effort to understand what might truly be preferable for your horse.

[SuperSTB]

Well, it certainly is much more entertaining and interesting than the Pissing Contest going on with our Presidential Election this year. ;)

Okay- changing it to

The Official COTH Pissing Contest of 2008

with following said bumper sticker:

O.C.P.C. '08
What's your position?

[see u at x]

Okay- changing it to

The Official COTH Pissing Contest of 2008

with following said bumper sticker:

O.C.P.C. '08
What's your position?

Oh, I LOVE IT!!!! :yes: :lol: Where can I get one?!?

[Nezzy]

There are good studies, and bad studies. Because something appeared in Equus (or any other publication for that matter) would not automatically make it authoritative or sound science. If you trust a magazine article more than decades of experience by knowledgeable horsemen...well, okay, whatever.

You say your horse 'is obviously not having a problem' because he is still peeing on the trail with you sitting down in the saddle. Are you qualified to determine the difference? Do you know how to read a horse's body language?

Sorry, but it sounds to me more like rationalization on your part than a genuine effort to understand what might truly be preferable for your horse.

and it sounds like you are grasping. You have nothing to prove me wrong.

And good grief, if i AM wrong, do you really think it's a Huge problem? As i said before, IF the horse was UNcomfortable, then he would probably not continue to do the thing that makes him uncomfortable. Just like when certain horses only pee in their stalls because they learned that they don't like urine splashing on their legs.

[Sithly]

Okay- changing it to

The Official COTH Pissing Contest of 2008

with following said bumper sticker:

O.C.P.C. '08
What's your position?

Hah! Love it. I want that on a t-shirt.

[Jumpin_Horses]

gramps (an OLD-timer) told me to lean forward if they pee (like in a 2pt position) because it takes pressure off their kidneys

made sense to me at the time... and it still makes sense to me today.

[Beverley]

and it sounds like you are grasping. You have nothing to prove me wrong.

And good grief, if i AM wrong, do you really think it's a Huge problem? As i said before, IF the horse was UNcomfortable, then he would probably not continue to do the thing that makes him uncomfortable. Just like when certain horses only pee in their stalls because they learned that they don't like urine splashing on their legs.


Grasping? Not hardly. Just making an observation. Though I do sometimes grasp the mane to steady myself when the horse is peeing:).

My position remains- up out of the saddle to help ensure the horse's comfort. Yours seems to be- nah, I read somewhere that's an old wives tale and (based on the quote above) so what if it makes the horse uncomfortable.

I want that t-shirt too!:cool:

[Keepthepeace]

I asked my Vet about this and he said that the kidneys have nothing to do with it since they are not located behind the saddle area and are so tiny that they do not need to be relieved of any pressure whatsoever when a horse pees. The only reason to stand up is if your horse stretches out so far that his back needs help in rebalancing when he steps back under himself. Other than that he should be fine! Standing up is a courtesy that a rider shows their animal when peeing, the kidney thing is an old wives tale apparently!:winkgrin:

[Nezzy]

Grasping? Not hardly. Just making an observation. Though I do sometimes grasp the mane to steady myself when the horse is peeing:).

My position remains- up out of the saddle to help ensure the horse's comfort. Yours seems to be- nah, I read somewhere that's an old wives tale and (based on the quote above) so what if it makes the horse uncomfortable.

I want that t-shirt too!:cool:

Just b/c i don't believe what you do, does not mean i disregard my horses comfort. IMO, it might be more uncomfortable to have a rider try to steady themselves while standing up. all i do is sit quietly.

[Bravestrom]

You stand up because if you don't everyone yells at you "Get off his back".

Just kidding.

I think they are more comfortable if you get up.

My gelding and mare would never pee while riding, but both of my younger son's ponies always pee - every ride - its a standing (no pun intended) joke with us.

Yesterday he rode his ppg pony and she was in heat - she peed 23 times during the practice.

the rest of our horses won't pee while riding and my gelding even hates to poop when being ridden.

He usually pees first thing in the morning - after eating - likes to go outside to his spot and pees. One time he had to get shod in the morning and he didn't pee in his stall - we couldn't figure out why he was so anxious while being shod - soon as he went outside - he peed.

What I hate is in the summer when we bring them into the stalls just to feed - the minute they are in they all pee in their stalls - then we put them back out and have a dirty stall - what a pain.

[Beasmom]

Thanks to Beverly for her THOUGHTFUL remarks. And to Keepthepeace for this: " Standing up is a courtesy a rider sows their animal when peeing..."

"Try" to steady themselves, Nezz? I have no trouble steadying myself in a two point position. Good riders have no problem maintaining a position in two-point. You must, however, and therefore opt to sit.

Well bless your heart.

[goeslikestink]

Just b/c i don't believe what you do, does not mean i disregard my horses comfort. IMO, it might be more uncomfortable to have a rider try to steady themselves while standing up. all i do is sit quietly.

nezzy-- how much does your horse do for you? yet you cant seem to do a simple gesture to help him feel more comfy----- its called respecting the horses needs
as no doubt he does when you ride him here there and everyehere------- he respects you so return the favour-- such a small gesture of thanks mate for being a good horse

[Frog]

Jeez guys leave Nezzy alone. Of course the whole "kidneys" thing isn't true. And if a horse can jump with a person on his back, I'm guessing he can pee. I doubt Nezzy's horse is disgusted that he isn't shown the common courtesy of two-point. I'm not sure the horse really needs that much help peeing. I don't think it hurts to stand but the horse needs help balancing himself? As if he's going to fall over peeing? I just don't think it's a big deal. It seems alot of you have this ingrained from training, and many of you thought it had something to do with kidneys. So a lot of us are wrong here. But this much is true- a horse can pee with a rider on if he wants, and he can do it whether the rider is standing or sitting.

[Jumpin_Horses]

I asked my Vet about this and he said that the kidneys have nothing to do with it since they are not located behind the saddle area and are so tiny that they do not need to be relieved of any pressure whatsoever when a horse pees. The only reason to stand up is if your horse stretches out so far that his back needs help in rebalancing when he steps back under himself. Other than that he should be fine! Standing up is a courtesy that a rider shows their animal when peeing, the kidney thing is an old wives tale apparently!:winkgrin:

Oh, thanks for checking.

You stand up because if you don't everyone yells at you "Get off his back".

:lol: aint that the truth

as far as being able to "balance" in 2pt while my horse pees... my gosh... I can go over a series of jumps in that position. and was forced (by coaches) to hold that position for long periods of trotting over poles, etc.... but, I would have trouble balancing for 15 seconds while my horse pees? :lol: NOT.... most people (who actually ride) have no problems doing that.

besides my mare is a dramatic pee'er.... I think pee'ing is one of her favorite things... she spreads WAY out and 1/2 closes her eyes and just moans-and-growns... she SO cute! while Im up there (close to her neck) its a great time for me to baby her. I think she enjoys the affection, so she get more and more dramatic every time... like.... "im peeing now, come luv on me!" :lol:

[Nezzy]

Thanks to Beverly for her THOUGHTFUL remarks. And to Keepthepeace for this: " Standing up is a courtesy a rider sows their animal when peeing..."

"Try" to steady themselves, Nezz? I have no trouble steadying myself in a two point position. Good riders have no problem maintaining a position in two-point. You must, however, and therefore opt to sit.

Well bless your heart.

Nope, i actually ride the 2-point quite often. i'm fine. Bless you, too.

[Nezzy]

nezzy-- how much does your horse do for you? yet you cant seem to do a simple gesture to help him feel more comfy----- its called respecting the horses needs
as no doubt he does when you ride him here there and everyehere------- he respects you so return the favour-- such a small gesture of thanks mate for being a good horse

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE IS COMFORTABLE WHEN ONE STANDS. How many times do you need to hear it? HE SEEMS PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE WHEN I AM SEATED QUIETLY.

[Cashela]

I do the lean forward thing, if anything to make myself feel comfortable. My girls stand on their hind toes when they pee so I just feel better putting my weight in the front and off of their backs.

I have one mare who will run you into the bushes on the side of the trail until she finds a spot to pee. My other mare just goes any where but lately i've noticed she has been picking some odd spots most where she is standing on a hill.

[Moderator 1]

Please avoid the personal/"pissy" commentary when discussing different ideas concerning this question. ;)

Thanks,
Mod 1

[cloudyandcallie]

I vote for "stand up" for whizzing. And I want a tee shirt too.

I was taught by my uncle and by our english riding instructor when I was a small child to stand up.

My mare altho always in season, never whizzed under saddle, in fact, once tacked up she was all business and wouldn't think of flirting with the boys in the ring. Ex race horse, 3 yrs on the track, all business girl.

My gelding also has never whizzed under saddle.

Both always manured before we started, in the crossties, so that they only had to manure in the ring if we rode a long time. haha, like they would have to work more than an hour at a time.

At shows, Cloudy manured outside the ring, and whizzed in his stall between classes.

Horses like dogs can be trained to manure before they work. At one barn, Cloudy would run around his paddock when I drove up, and whizz before I got him out of the paddock. Callie was ridden 2nd, so she had an hour or more to "get ready".

So is this like the barefoot-shoe threads?:winkgrin: