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View Full Version : what colors are conservative (EV 113.8)



ne900
Aug. 30, 2008, 09:46 PM
I am competing at an event next weekend where the new 2008 USEF Dress Code Rule EV 113.8 will be in effect. Since all three phases of the event are on one day, a competitor can ride all three phases in a white or conservative color, long or short sleeve shirt, with collar (No jacket required in dressage or stadium).

What colors are considered conservative? I ride XC in a navy polo, is that okay, or do I need to wear a light color? If not, what about a medium charcoal grey?

Thanks!

EventerAJ
Aug. 30, 2008, 09:53 PM
Generally when coats are waived, I view "conservative" as white, or a pale solid color shirt. I don't remember a rule specifically requesting "light" colors, but I don't remember seeing a dark shirt in dressage or sj.

However, at a one-day things are often more relaxed. Especially when xc is scheduled immediately (15min) after SJ, everyone will be wearing their xc colors (blue, green, orange, whatever). I still prefer to "dress up" for dressage, then change into xc polo.

deltawave
Aug. 30, 2008, 10:50 PM
For a SJ shirt I'd go with a color/pattern that would normally "work" with your hunt coat. In other words, light, no pattern or only a very, very subtle one.. :)

canterlope
Aug. 31, 2008, 05:54 AM
Unfortunately, conservative varies depending upon the beliefs of the officials at the event. I officiated at an event where another official and I disagreed on what colors are considered conservative. She felt that black was not conservative. I felt that if black was not conservative, then why are our formal dressage and show jumping jackets predominantly black?

The best thing to do is find the TD or PGJ when you first arrive on grounds and show him/her the shirt in question. Be sure to take a solid white spare just in case he/she disapproves your original choice.

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 31, 2008, 07:28 AM
I saw someone yesterday at an event which was not one day wearing a light pale lavender shirt for stadium. I thought it looked nice.

yellowbritches
Aug. 31, 2008, 04:42 PM
I saw someone yesterday at an event which was not one day wearing a light pale lavender shirt for stadium. I thought it looked nice.
It DID look nice.

You can NEVER go wrong with white.

tbeventer
Aug. 31, 2008, 05:08 PM
I normally wear a lavender shirt for show jumping, but at most one days, if it is casual, conservative wear, I may even wear my black full seats and a polo that looks classy with it, like white.

A friend of mine converted from upper level eventing to upper level dressage. She always used white polos for her dressage lessons with a particular Intl. trainer and competitor that she trained with... until one day... She dug up her old YR colour polos from our area (teal). She proudly wore her standard black full seats, but this time opted to wear her YR shirt and polos, for which she was told to, "NEVER waste my time with foolish colours and ALWAYS wear simple black and white". We got a good giggle out of that, as many dressage queens are simply too stuffy and need to lighten up a bit.

However, I like the advice of taking a few options and asking the TD or whomever is in charge. Even calling the show secretary in advance is an excellent option. Perhaps you can even ride in half chaps and paddock boots.

yventer
Aug. 31, 2008, 05:31 PM
Unfortunately, conservative varies depending upon the beliefs of the officials at the event. I officiated at an event where another official and I disagreed on what colors are considered conservative. She felt that black was not conservative. I felt that if black was not conservative, then why are our formal dressage and show jumping jackets predominantly black?

The best thing to do is find the TD or PGJ when you first arrive on grounds and show him/her the shirt in question. Be sure to take a solid white spare just in case he/she disapproves your original choice.


Thank you Canterlope!! This is exactly why I dislike the wording of this rule. It leaves too much open to individual officials' preference or interpretation, and causes a *lot* of confusion for competitors. Why not just list the colors allowed? Eg: neutrals (white, beige, cream); or pale colors including pastels; or neutrals, pastels, and dark colors such as hunter, navy, royal, black and burgundy. Or WHATEVER, just please tell us so we know!

And I don't think that having the shirt tucked in is anywhere in the rule.

Or wearing a belt! (What if you happen to be wearing breeches that have no belt loops, as is the case with some makes?) I cringed when I heard *that* requirement over the loudpeaker at a recent event! I thought, "Great, now officals are making up apparel requirements on the spur of the moment".

Until the rule is better worded, I agree with Canterlope: Either wear a white or beige shirt, or ask the TD beforehand. And bring a belt.

Like we don't have enough *clearly stated* rules to worry about!!! The rules are getting a bit like the weather in certain climes: if you don't like it, just wait a few hours and it'll change! ;->> GRRRRR

thumbsontop
Aug. 31, 2008, 06:32 PM
I thought the new rule this year was that white or a very light color polo was fine for all 3 phases in a one day. I can't find it anywhere though.

I definitely would not wear black. I saw someone last weekend get admonished by the judge for it.

White just always seems like the best choice for dressage and stadium.

Janet
Aug. 31, 2008, 09:38 PM
And I don't think that having the shirt tucked in is anywhere in the rule.

Or wearing a belt! (What if you happen to be wearing breeches that have no belt loops, as is the case with some makes?)
Nothing about a belt. But


8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one
day - Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the
test in progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and
gloves - as applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar
and without neckwear, of a conservative color, neatly tucked into riding breeches.

Dr. Doolittle
Aug. 31, 2008, 10:22 PM
At DRHT last May, a competitor was taken to task by the TD (after stadium; jackets had been waived) for not having her shirt tucked into her breeches; I was standing there, so heard the whole exchange! (And knew this competitor; I had actually mentioned to her that she should probably have tucked her shirt in, and also that Gegi Winslett--the stadium judge--was known for admonishing riders for not wearing belts in stadium when jackets had been waived. The competitor pointed out that she had no belt loops on her breeches!)

The TD took the rule book out and pointed out the passage that Janet provided :)

I asked the TD about the belt requirement, and she said there was no rule on that one (obviously GeGi's personal preference), but that "not having belt loops was no excuse for an untucked shirt"...

And yeah, I agree with yeventer--why not have the requirements for shirt color just spelled out in the rule book?? :confused:

One of my students wore a black polo into dressage warmup at DRHT last weekend, and I persuaded her to put a jacket and stock tie over it, even though the TD had "okayed" it as a "conservative color"...but I wasn't willing to take the chance that the dressage judge would be okay with it at a recognized HT :-/

Yes, IMO these things need to be standardized and clarified!!!

yventer
Aug. 31, 2008, 10:43 PM
Janet says:

Nothing about a belt. But

Quote:
8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one
day - Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the
test in progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and
gloves - as applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar
and without neckwear, of a conservative color, >> neatly tucked into riding breeches. <<

(emphasis mine)


__________________

Oops! Thanks, Janet! I guess I'd better go read the rulebook *again*! ;->

Jagged
Aug. 31, 2008, 10:49 PM
Or we could all go to an event boycotting all solid colors. Leopard print britches and lime green polka dots on a pastel blue background polo (untucked, of course). Hot orange gloves and spurs with diamonds on the sides.

Wonder what the judges would do!

X HALT SALUTE. :D

deltawave
Aug. 31, 2008, 11:13 PM
Leopard print britches and lime green polka dots on a pastel blue background polo (untucked, of course). Hot orange gloves and spurs with diamonds on the sides.

I believe I've seen that rider doing unrecognized shows around here . . . ;)

eqsiu
Sep. 1, 2008, 09:50 AM
I believe I've seen that rider doing unrecognized shows around here . . . ;)

Or the girl on a chestnut in blaze orange for cross country last weekend. Sharon White does it tastefully (still not sure how...) but man my eyes were bleeding.

scubed
Sep. 1, 2008, 12:34 PM
It is hard to specify everything in the rules and not every shirt that works under a jacket works without for every judge. For example, several brands (kerrits, arista, romfph) do the white front shirt with pink or blue backs. When I've asked judges, some have said they do consider those conservative and some not, so I've gone to a white polo shirt if wearing tan breeches and a light blue if wearing white breeches (this would be if jackets are waived by the ground jury at an event where dressage is on a separate day, otherwise, I rarely wear white breeches. When I do, I don't like a white shirt with no jacket). And never mind the judges, my trainer is totally on the tidy, conservative, tucked in, definitely a belt, and minimal bling program

retreadeventer
Sep. 1, 2008, 01:58 PM
Why do they use the word "britches" and in the same rule, use "breeches".
And define "neatly tucked". Why not just say "worn inside the breeches".
I have seen t-shirts, flapping ties, rolled up sleeves, dark green polos, just pullover shirts without collars, no-sleeve polos all worn in recognized competitions without penalty some by professionals with more than one horse, in the ring numerous times.
I have seen white, striped, pink, purple, tan, dark green, navy, blue, and even patterned (pastel).
Conservative would be solid colors in traditional shades which would NOT include pastels. Light conservative would be white or tan. Dark conservative would be dark blue, black, or brown. (YUCK. I would look positively awful in any color but the tan I guess.)
I have a nice pair of breeches that are meant to be worn without a belt and do not have belt loops, fasten on the side, and fit better than any of my other conventionally designed ones. If you do not have belt loops, a belt is just an accessory and inappropriate I think. Because of my shape a belt is often uncomfortable.
These rules are ridiculous. Why not use the English language and make it clear.

Jazzy Lady
Sep. 1, 2008, 02:52 PM
I like a polo... and black is a neutral and thus should be considered "conservative". Go with a light pastel, a white or off-white with beige, yellow or light grey breeches. Can't go wrong. I personally hate the look of tucked in without a belt, so my show breeches have belt loops, and a nice belt to go with.

I also like the look of a ratchatcher. A light blouse is always more cool than a thick polo or even some of those high tech show shirts. What's more breathable than a light cotton??? ;) I wear a light french blue for show jumping and I would not hesitate to wear that if jackets were waived.

4Martini
Sep. 1, 2008, 05:35 PM
I saw someone yesterday at an event which was not one day wearing a light pale lavender shirt for stadium. I thought it looked nice.

I've done pale lavender too. I must have asked 50 people if they thought it was conservative first though :lol:

If you don't comment on my leg you can look at a pic (last fence of my first horse trials.) The shirt has a white collar and cuffs - I love it! (White european stock tie for dressage.) I have also learned to better contain my hair since then too...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2023515820100187715BQGgwx

The rule is very open to interpretation as I don't think purple is often considered conservative...

scubed
Sep. 1, 2008, 09:18 PM
But remember that if you are not wearing a jacket, you can't wear neckware, so no collar with the ratcatcher type shirt (I do sometimes wear mine with the first button open).

melodiousaphony
Sep. 1, 2008, 09:37 PM
But what is the purpose of this rule change?

Call me crazy, but I like the jacket look...

Janet
Sep. 1, 2008, 09:54 PM
But what is the purpose of this rule change?

Call me crazy, but I like the jacket look...
To legalize a situation that was already happening, especially in Area II.

Many events schedule Cross Country 15 - 30 minutes after Show Jumping, with no time to change dress.

Those events encouraged people to do show jumping in their cross country attire. This was technically against the rules, though I don't think anyone protested it.

Anyway, this rule change was to make it legal.

canterlope
Sep. 2, 2008, 02:41 AM
Conservative would be solid colors in traditional shades which would NOT include pastels. Not necessarily. The rule says "conservative", not "traditional", and there was a great deal of thought put into using this specific word when the rule was written. The intent was to discourage the wearing of colors like blaze orange, neon green, and the like during the dressage phase while allowing riders more leeway in their color choices than those traditionally seen in the hunt field. Pastels are appropriately conservative as are subtle patterns and textures. And, as Janet correctly noted, the rule legalized the wearing of cross country attire in show jumping when the event schedule does not provide enough time to change dress in between the two phases.

piaffeprincess98
Sep. 2, 2008, 06:49 AM
I've done pale lavender too. I must have asked 50 people if they thought it was conservative first though :lol:

If you don't comment on my leg you can look at a pic (last fence of my first horse trials.) The shirt has a white collar and cuffs - I love it! (White european stock tie for dressage.) I have also learned to better contain my hair since then too...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2023515820100187715BQGgwx

The rule is very open to interpretation as I don't think purple is often considered conservative...

Yeah, and actually I didn't say in my original post, but to me it still looked very "hunter-y". I know over there they can wear different colors under their jackets.

Here is a photo from GRC, I happened to click on the right person! http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK008J290005&po=5

melodiousaphony
Sep. 2, 2008, 07:40 AM
Those events encouraged people to do show jumping in their cross country attire. This was technically against the rules, though I don't think anyone protested it.

Anyway, this rule change was to make it legal.

Thank you! I didn't connect the two situations in my head. I was thinking "ew, polos for dressage?" and not about that situation which I have encountered.

As for what colors are conservative, now that I've read hear that black isn't I'm a bit fuzzy on my own concept of conservative.
One thing I did like about hunterland was being able to wear a nice, tasteful, purple shirt under my coat. I don't think it was conservative enough a color to wear alone, but a hint under a coat... I liked that. But why isn't black conservative? They need to be more specific. For all thing things they're really specific about, this would be a nice thing to include.

GreystoneKC
Sep. 2, 2008, 08:20 AM
I can't imagine black not being considered "conservative". I would actually be annoyed if a judge or TD scolded me for wearing a black polo - not sure I'd be able to keep my mouth shut, actually. Black is a whole lot more "conservative" than pastel, that's for sure! If they mean, "light-coloured", then they should spell that out. My go-to dress for any occasion is a black polo tucked into either britches or jeans with a black leather/bling belt, so to me it seems quite conservative.

luise
Sep. 2, 2008, 08:52 AM
I love the new rule change. We no longer have to wait for an event to waive jackets when it is hot out. At the event I was at this weekend, many of us wore our jackets/stock ties for dressage, but just wore a polo shirt for stadium as it had gotten warmer out. I get hot very easily, so I love having this option.

Janet
Sep. 2, 2008, 09:24 AM
Thank you! I didn't connect the two situations in my head. I was thinking "ew, polos for dressage?" and not about that situation which I have encountered. For reasons I don't know, when making "polos", etc. legal for show jumping (when all in one day), they decided to make them legal for dressage as well.

fooler
Sep. 2, 2008, 10:47 AM
The PGJ and I (TD) both referred to rule EV113. 5 for 'conservative' attire at an event this Spring.
EV113 Dress
5. DRESSAGE TEST.
s a. Horse Trials (Beginner Novice through Preliminary)—Hunt Cap—black or dark blue;
Coat—dark color or tweed, tail coats are not permitted; Shirt—white or light color, with
stock and pin, or choker, or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white;
Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black
or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps and/or
half-chaps are not allowed. BOD 1/14/07 Effective 12/1/07

EV113.7 does not mention shirt color, so I took it to mean the ruling above still holds true. And the same with
7. JUMPING TEST. Hunting dress or uniform. Protective headgear, with chin harness, designed
expressly for equestrian use in accordance with paragraph 1 above. Hat covers other than
solid black or dark blue are not allowed. Coat—dark color or tweed (if Novice through prelim.)
Shirt—stock with pin, choker or tie; Gloves (if worn)—dark color, tan, beige or white; Jodhpurs, Britches—light color or white; Boots—black, brown, field, jodhpur or a black or brown full grain smooth leather leg piece and matching leather boots. Chaps or half-chaps are not allowed. Member of armed and police forces, as in EV113.5.b.

So in my mind, refer to EV113.5 for definition of conservative color.
8. At Eventing Tests or when all three phases of a Horse Trials are contested over one day
- Protective headgear and protective vests as above. Clothing as appropriate for the test in
progress (see below), or at the competitor’s option - boots, britches, spurs and gloves - as
applicable for the test being performed. Long or short sleeved shirt with collar and without
neckwear, of a conservative color, neatly tucked into riding breeches. BOD 1/14/07 Effective
12/1/07

But have to agree with everyone that the last rule does leave it quite open for discussion as each of us have varying definitions of 'conservative'. I know some whose view of conservative attire matches my view of 'out-there' attire.

Saskatoonian
Sep. 2, 2008, 12:53 PM
So Canterlope, how about a nice blue and white striped seersucker button down? Just the thing on a chestnut horse, I think. ;) And if the worst the D judge can dress me down for (no pun intended) is my shirt color, I've made progress!! :D

canterlope
Sep. 2, 2008, 01:27 PM
So Canterlope, how about a nice blue and white striped seersucker button down? Just the thing on a chestnut horse, I think. ;) And if the worst the D judge can dress me down for (no pun intended) is my shirt color, I've made progress!! :DPersonally, I think it would be perfectly appropriate and would have absolutely no problem with it for any phase. However, I know some dressage judges may have a differing opinion.

I definitely think we've lost sight of the true meaning of our sport and why we compete when riders start getting dressed down for their attire. I know we have rules, but worrying about whether or not a black polo shirt is conservative in a sport where there is a chance that the people and horses who participate in it may not come back in one piece or at all just makes me go huh!?!

Saskatoonian
Sep. 3, 2008, 10:03 AM
Fortunately, as a lawyer, I have plenty of experience dealing with judges with different opinions! he he he!! And then I'd have to consider turnout very carefully when riding in front of that judge again. You can bet my horse wouldn't be braided, and my tack wouldn't be cleaned. ;) Well, at least I'd seriously consider that and have a grand time joking about it. Actually following through? No promises. And the tack's never very dirty anyway.

Hilary
Sep. 3, 2008, 10:29 AM
Back to the original question, if the event is King Oak, we ride dressage then stadium THEN XC - so your XC shirt would be less appropriate.

At an event 2 weeks ago a rider and the Stadium judge had a 10 minute delay discussing whether or not she could ride in her polo. She could, but it was NOT tucked in and looked so sloppy. Since it was not hot that day the impression it left (for me) was that she just didn't care much about her appearance and therefore the event.

However, I am not opposed to the idea entirely - last summer on a VERY hot day, the woman in the very pale pink polo shirt with a colored scarf (pink & green) for a belt. She looked far more stylish and put-together than the woman in the ill-fitting coat and stock that came untied and flapped around.

If you look neat and as if you put at least some thought into your outfit, you should be fine.

I will probably wear my jacket on Sunday as it is not supposed to be hot.

ne900
Sep. 3, 2008, 10:40 AM
The event is King Oak.

I'll probably dress "normally" for dressage and then wear a white polo for stadium and cross country (if I can figure out how to get the stains out of it- I soiled it helping someone with an ailing horse on course at an event earlier this summer).

I only have 25 minutes or so between stadium and cross country, so I'd like to try to wear the same clothes for those 2 phases.

Ajierene
Sep. 3, 2008, 11:07 AM
The event is King Oak.

I'll probably dress "normally" for dressage and then wear a white polo for stadium and cross country (if I can figure out how to get the stains out of it- I soiled it helping someone with an ailing horse on course at an event earlier this summer).

I only have 25 minutes or so between stadium and cross country, so I'd like to try to wear the same clothes for those 2 phases.

Around here, if stadium is before Cross country (usually officially about 20 minutes between, but often less in actuality) you wear your cross country gear, vest and all, to stadium and then go immediately to cross country. Fair Hill started running shows this way when people were trying to do stadium in the dark because the shows got so big running dressage, then cross country then stadium in one day took way to long. The shows still run until dusk, and are much bigger than a few years ago. Dressage is still dressage wear.

Personally, I want to see an organizer decide that hot orange, leopard print and neon green are the only acceptable 'conservative' colors...just for laughs.

Larbear
Sep. 3, 2008, 12:42 PM
But what is the purpose of this rule change?

Call me crazy, but I like the jacket look...

Yeh, me too...'sides, with a jacket, I can wear a t-shirt and just stick a bib with a stock tie on underneath. :D