Suspected Hoarder/Abuser Soliciting Horses On Giveaway Board

[Katie-Nicole]

Hey guys, just wanted to cross post this article/video I found: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2836654/

Tammie listed is LilHighJumper on the giveaways board who has been actively trying to obtain horses from COTH members. Just an FYI to everyone who frequents the board and may have horses listed.

[EqTrainer]

The link doesn't work when I click on it.. can you check it please?

[Katie-Nicole]

Works for me, but here's a cut/paste:

Posted: May. 5, 2008

Sanford, N.C. — Some people in Harnett County say a woman who claims to rescue and care for ailing horses is mistreating them.

“There have been days at a time I've seen these horses not have a mouthful to eat,” Timmy Huff said.

In September, Timmy and Bonnie Huff began leasing a pasture and stables on Oakview Lane, just off Elliott Bridge Road, to Tammie Montiel.

Montiel heads the Private Equine Animal Rescue Sanctuary or PEARS, a group funded primarily by donations

"The next thing I know, she has 25 horses here," Timmy Huff said.

It is Montiel's job to rehabilitate old and sick horses. The Huff family said the horses are not being cared for, however.

"I think that she should be shut down. I don't think she should be allowed to have any animals. I don't think she should be allowed to have a cat," Kim Perry, the Huffs' daughter, said.

They say that three horses were in such pitiful shape, the owner had them removed last week. The Huffs and other people with whom WRAL spoke with said Montiel has made threats.

In response, the Huffs said they are evicting Montiel on Tuesday.

When a WRAL camera crew approached Montiel's barn Monday, she first demanded that reporter Bryan Mims leave, but then decided to talk.

"I do not abuse my horses," Montiel said.

She even showed WRAL around the pasture. Montiel admitted the horses looked bony and malnourished, but only because they have diseases, like cancer, she said.

"There is a medical reason for their weight," she added.

Harnett County animal control officials don't expect to file animal cruelty charges. They have conducted unannounced visits and said they have seen improvements in the horses' conditions.

Animal control supervisor Tino Medino declined an on-camera interview, but he said Montiel is doing the best she can for the horses.

At one point, Montiel had 25 horses; she is currently caring for 11. She said that if she is not able to care for some of the horses, she will send them to other rescue groups.

If she is evicted Tuesday, she said she plans to send the horses to her stables in Sanford.

The video http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/2836835/ Shows some horses that would rank a 1 or 2 on the body condition scale and some young, malnourished horses as well. (Tammie's exposed muffin-top is highly attractive as well. At least we all know she gets fed well)

[seeuatx]

That was horrifying. And the AC people said they have seen "improvement" in the horses condition. If that is an improvement, I think I would be sick to see the before. [edit] there is no excuse for that type of emaciation and obvious parasite infestation. :no:

[Paragon]

Holy crapola. I, too, Googled the email address listed in LilHighJumper's posts and found the same information.

Same lady. Yikes.

[Katie-Nicole]

And I'm sorry, I think it's utter BS about the horses having cancer. I know first hand how incredibly expensive it is to bring back an emaciated rescue. I work a good job, am college educated and own my own farm and felt the pinch by taking on that rescue. If I could only reasonably help one on my income, how can [someone] who doesn't look like she has loose change to rub together do it for several? Yes, I'm snarky, but this has me pissed!

[county]

Well I've taken in as many as 17 head to rescue at once I'm not college educated, don't make a whole lot of money, and some consider me a redneck. [edit]

Oh and that post has me pissed.

[Katie-Nicole]

Well I've taken in as many as 17 head to rescue at once I'm not college educated, don't make a whole lot of money, and some consider me a redneck. [edit].

Oh and that post has me pissed.
But, County, did you do right by the horses in the end? That is what matters most. If you're a rescue and you take on a large amount of horses at one time, that's one thing. From the sounds of it, Tammie was collecting horses one by one and not doing right by any of them. I don't care if you had to take a second mortgage on your house to provide for your rescues, but it's irresponsible to take on a critical rescue without having the resources to provide for them. You're not doing yourself, your family or the horse any favors. In a PM, I was told by someone who's been to Tammie's farm that "The place was a mess, at least one intact pony, and they all definitely needed medical attention. All I can say is that I wouldn't put a goat on that land. And I sure as hell wouldn't put my horses in that fencing. The people seemed to be well intentioned but not knowledgeable. I certainly was not impressed by the condition on the horses. Most, if not all, had some sort of infection going on. She sure as hell doesn't need to be collecting more horses from the peeps on COTH!"

The point is that she cannot manage the ill, malnourished horses she has today, yet still seeking out more horses to take on. I don't care how well intentioned you are, or how educated you are, or your cultural background - do right by the horses you have today before adding to the number of horses that grace your tomorrow.

And if the horses are that ill and downtrodden from cancer - put them down.

[county]

You should have seen the fences here I used to have over the years if you think thats bad. And some of the horses I've bought over the years looked like hell when they came and for awhile after. I have no idea how the person in the video operates, how long shes had those horses or a number of things. I do know that like I said I'm not college educated, don't make alot of money and some consider me a redneck. Not one of those things has anything to do with caring for livestock. I can take you to farm after farm here with people the exact same way that take excellant care of theres.

BTW I have 3 intact stallions.

[fabuleux]

That video made me sad to watch it.


You know, this could all be EASILY avoided if these so called "rescues" documented EVERYTHING. Took weekly pictures, kept track of farrier/vet visits, ect. (I'm sure even real rescues do this, or should do this! It's not too hard to do and definitely not a bad idea!)


I hope nobody on here has given her any horses. :(

[Katie-Nicole]

Owning and caring for horses takes money - plain and simple. I don't care if you have a lot or a little but if you don't have expendable income, get a different hobby. If she doesn't have the funds to care for the rescues herself, there should be no reason why she shouldn't let another rescue step in and absorb the costs and offer her services as a volunteer. She was evicted from the farm in the video. I believe the PM was in regards to the horses current living conditions.

And I don't care if you stand stallions. It seems your business is stock breeding, and if that's what you're doing to put food in your mouth, what's it to me? I do take issue with someone who advertises herself solely as a rescue, keeps a stallion that anyone would tell you should be a gelding, actively seeks donations from people because she can't afford the horses she has and is just going to be popping out babies probably as fugly as the stallion thus compounding her problems by putting more horses in her care. You're not a parasite County - in my opinion Tammie is. It's kinda like welfare abusers who keep procreating - but that's a whole other pandora's box.

Why are you hyper-defensive County? Nothing I've said has been personally directed to you.

[county]

Seems to me your the one whos defensive. Like I said not one thing you used to describe this person has anything to do with how someone cares for an animal so why say it?

[JoZ]

I do think the [personal comments] are a bit out of line. There are plenty of nicely-dressed, thin, well-spoken sickos and abusers out there.

But on the other hand I don't think anyone would be making comments about her appearance if she had been featured for a good reason.

Bottom line, I don't care what she looks like, where she went to school, or what her income is. No one should purposefully acquire animals they cannot take care of. In the absolute best scenario -- and I'm not so naive as to think this scenario is accurate -- Tammie should spend more time caring for the horses she has, and stop fishing for horses on the internet.

All the other stuff, though? The skinny horses, the nasty stallion, the begging for giveaways? Those are not signs that make me feel warm and fuzzy about a rescue (extreme understatement!). If those horses look that bad from an incurable illness, for god's sake put them out of their misery. If they look that bad from lack of food and care, shame on you Tammie.

[Katie-Nicole]

[edit] I'm not defensive by any means. I have a strong opinion when it comes to this and I strongly believe that horse care and rescue is not something to be "half-assed"

[county]

[edit] I also have a strong opinion on this and its not something to be half assed same as any livestock operation of any type should not be. But not everyones opinion of half assed will be the same thank goodness. Depending on where a person lives how livestock is housed, fed, many many things enter into whats the " right " way to do something.

[Beezer]

County, answer honestly: Do you think these animals -- and I care not what species they are or what their intended purpose is or what kind of fencing they are behind -- are being fed and well cared for by generally acceptable standards?

Or are you unhappy/defensive/lashing out/whatever because the OP described someone in a not-PC way (and, yes, I realize that I am being ironic here)?

[simply kim]

Thank you ,Katie Nicole for posting this info. Maybe it will keep people from giving her any more horses. We have a very good horse rescue in this state called USERL and I believe Harnett county AC has worked with it in the past. Usually USERL and the AC that is investigating such things can say very little particularly about ongoing investigations, but I would be very surprised if there aren't a lot of concerned people dealing with this situation.

[county]

No I don't think there cared for properly I never in any way said they were.

[Policy of Truth]

Some of my dad's side of the family has some serious "redneck" in them - however, they are extremely intelligent and good people. They had a horse that I have known since I was VERY young - she was only recently put down due to old age/pain issues. AC once was called out there, and yea, Dawn ( the mare) was thin - however, her pasture-mate was as fat as a tick and AC determined that it was, in fact, due to the mare being 33 years old. My uncle wasn't even angry that they had been called - even asked AC to have his hay tested to make sure it DID have the nutritional value he thought it did - AC now brings horses that NEED a place to stay while being rehabbed LOL!

While I think it's great that the OP brought this situation to light, I agree with County that the insults were uncalled for. Being a Tarheel, I don't much care for people categorizing my state in such negative terms. :no::lol: There are bad people in all states in all socio-economic categories.

[tweeter]

If you look at her profile, she's made like 27 posts, all but 3 are in the giveaway section.

Why is she soliciting horses instead of trying to rehome some of the ones she has?

[ChocoMare]

If you look at her profile, she's made like 27 posts, all but 3 are in the giveaway section.

Why is she soliciting horses instead of trying to rehome some of the ones she has?

Ditto. No legitimate rescue EVER needs to go looking for horses. Just ask Lori of Sunkissed Acres (snkstacres here on COTH). They bang on her door, dump them at the gate in the middle of the night and tie them to the fence post in the afternoon while she's out.

Granted, we don't know the whole story but any rescue that has horses that are UBER hardkeepers have paperwork from vets up the wazoo to show that the horse is aged, diseased, etc. so that any time anyone questions the horse's weight, there is written documentation to prove it truly is a medical reason beyond a human's control. Ms. Montiel offered no such documentation.

It just makes it look suspicious/questionable.

[Katie-Nicole]

Was my comment harsh? Yes, and for that I apologize. It was in no way directed toward anyone else or their family. My opinion of Tammie has been generated by personal and private interactions, and I will continue to carry that opinion until she proves otherwise.

[Policy of Truth]

If you look at her profile, she's made like 27 posts, all but 3 are in the giveaway section.

Why is she soliciting horses instead of trying to rehome some of the ones she has?

A most excellent question. I doubt she will be coming over here to explain it, though, as she spends the majority of her time looking for freebies. :eek:

[7HL]

Owning and caring for horses takes money - plain and simple. I don't care if you have a lot or a little but if you don't have expendable income, get a different hobby. If she doesn't have the funds to care for the rescues herself, there should be no reason why she shouldn't let another rescue step in and absorb the costs and offer her services as a volunteer. She was evicted from the farm in the video.


If you look at her profile, she's made like 27 posts, all but 3 are in the giveaway section.

Why is she soliciting horses instead of trying to rehome some of the ones she has?

Hoarding is a sickness. Some people are lonely and the animals are the only company they have. Collecting animals is her way having friends.

[BabyGreen]

Hoarding is a sickness. Some people are lonely and the animals are the only company they have. Collecting animals is her way having friends.

BS. Hoarding is not a sickness, it is irresponsible behavior. Why do so many people want to drop some "illness" label on these cretins, as if that somehow makes their actions understandable, if not forgiveable? I saw a couple of other people in that video, so obviously Ms. Tammie has some human friends.
People think they have the right to do anything they want to to animals. My guess is she's a low-rent dealer. (Did you notice the sign in that TV video that said "don't feed the horse"?)

[county]

Maybe theres a problem with people feeding the horses if people did to mine I'd put up a sign. Sometimes I beleive it is a type of illness I took some horses from an elderly lady that had rescued animals for decades. She just no longer could care for them properly because of her advanced age and low income. But in her mind she was still doing the good job she had for 50 years.

[Katie-Nicole]

County, I thought you said that income doesn't dictate your ability to care for animals? Aren't we being a little hypocritical?

[county]

Income doesn't dictate me ability to care for animals. Common sense does to me its just common sense not to spend more then you need to. If someone else wants to thats totally their business.

[Katie-Nicole]

So do the bear minimum to generate the greatest profit, and don't go the extra mile for your horses? That sounds GREAT!

Personally, I'd happily spend more on a horse if I knew that it received an annual exam, dentistry, full vaccine series every year, routine 6-10 week hoof care, and a good deworming rotation performed every 8 weeks. But that's me, and how I prefer to take care of my horses. I just see it as an ounce of prevention.

[tkhawk]

In the area she lives in, is there pasture grass for most of the year?? I am surprised though-for me two horses is about the max I can handle financially-without it starting to affect the other areas of my life. Considering that she already has so many horses, why she is going around asking for more. Unless she has her own property with grass growing most of the year and never calls the vet or farrier....

[county]

Don't go the extra mile? Exactly whats the extra mile I don't go? I see many many people not going what I think is the extra mile by locking their horse up in a stall or paddock rather then keeping them on 100's of acres like I do. Does that make them not " going the extra mile "?

Or is " going the extra mile ' what you feel it should be only?

[Katie-Nicole]

I'm sorry County, I was referencing the Horse Loan post. My bad...

You said you spend less than $3 on deworming, $7 on vaccines. You don't do Rabies vaccine (even though it's required in most states.) It just seems minimalistic. I'm all about natural horse keeping. My horses aren't kept in padded stalls, wrapped in blankets. They're outside, they get muddy... But they get the best I can give them in the way of hay, grain and overall care. Is it a bigger investment on my part - yes. But I think the returns are tenfold in the way I feel about how my horses are cared for and how my horses represent me and my farm. You can see the difference between minimal care and just a bit more effort, IMHO.

[county]

Same answer regardless.

[ESG]

Don't waste your typing time on county, Katie-Nicole. He's our resident misogynist/critic/general pot-stirrer. You can't have a discussion with him because he's not interested in discourse and exchange of ideas, because he already has all he can handle. :p Best thing you can do is put him on your ignore list.

The hoarder is sick. She's sick in the same way that child abusers that keep getting foster kids, are sick. They think they're doing a wonderful job caring for their charges, but it's all in their minds. They don't see the matted coats with the ribs sticking through, or the dying/dead lying around - they just congratulate themselves on getting horses out of "bad situations", and unwittingly putting them in far worse.

The one's I'm p!$$ed at are the county animal control folks. "Noticed improvement", have they? :rolleyes: I guess they don't talk to the folks who actually own the land where these horses are pastured, who see what the owner does (or rather, doesn't do) for them, on a daily basis. Asshats. They should all be subjected to Tammie's tender care for a day or two; bet that'd change their tune.

[Katie-Nicole]

County, I just love the double standard. Income doesn't dictate your ability to take care of your horses or Tammie's ability to care for the horses she takes on, but it certainly does for the old lady hoarder you mentioned. You admit that you only do what's minimally necessary for your horses, spending as little as possible for them. And that, I think, is the defining difference between someone who just owns horses and someone who is passionate about them.

[cowgirljenn]

Hoarding is a sickness. Some people are lonely and the animals are the only company they have. Collecting animals is her way having friends.

Hoarding is indeed a mental illness. That doesn't make it understandable or forgivable though. And it isn't as simple as collecting animals as a means of having friends. Collectors/hoarders often hoard everything - paperwork, books, trash, their own feces (yes, you read that right) as well as animals. It isn't about having friends - it is about a need to keep things, not lose control, not give things up, a need to obtain things, etc. There's a lot of variation in hoarders - but rarely do hoarders ONLY hoard animals. I've been on the property of hoarders before, and it is disturbing to the extreme.

[philosoraptor]

I took some horses from an elderly lady that had rescued animals for decades. She just no longer could care for them properly because of her advanced age and low income.

Income doesn't dictate me ability to care for animals. Common sense does to me its just common sense not to spend more then you need to.

So when someone can't care for a horse "because of low income" they need your rescuing. But then you state "income doesn't dictate ability" to care for animals. Which is it?

And you come here talking about the horses you "rescued" but you forgot to mention that you also sell horses to slaughter. I guess by that logic then slaughter kill-buyers are "rescuing" horses every day?

[Ambrey]

I'm sorry County, I was referencing the Horse Loan post. My bad...

You said you spend less than $3 on deworming, $7 on vaccines. You don't do Rabies vaccine (even though it's required in most states.) It just seems minimalistic. I'm all about natural horse keeping. My horses aren't kept in padded stalls, wrapped in blankets. They're outside, they get muddy... But they get the best I can give them in the way of hay, grain and overall care. Is it a bigger investment on my part - yes. But I think the returns are tenfold in the way I feel about how my horses are cared for and how my horses represent me and my farm. You can see the difference between minimal care and just a bit more effort, IMHO.

If we're going back to past posts, let's add in a bit of anesthesia for horses when you geld them :eek:.

Was this the person who posted a rash of posts a while back about needing a horse for 2 little kids? That is just weird.

I agree that in some people hoarding is a sickness (meaning they really don't understand what they are doing or feel compelled to do it). In some people it's just random irresponsible behavior. Who knows about this person.

[Katie-Nicole]

Yes, I believe she was posting about a pony or something for her 4 year old. She also inquired about a Chihuahua listed on the giveaway board.

I don't know if I quite follow you about the gelding comment? Am I out of the loop?

[Ambrey]

I don't know if I quite follow you about the gelding comment? Am I out of the loop?

It was an old thread in which county described gelding adult horses by taking them down and cutting with no anesthesia. Still stuck in my brain I guess :)

[county]

ROTFLMAO Katie you want me to respect your posts? Uh thats a two way street you get respect when you give it. I see no where that you accept my ideals at all. I see no double standard at all I'm sure some of you will jump on it just as you jump on anything you can. Beleive it or not people of many income levels can care for animals just fine its not just for the rich.

And yes I raise and sell livestock to slaughter people eat meat its been going on for awhile now. Nothing new about it, people make money doing it. Its called a business around here its considered a good thing when one makes money.

I'm not passanate about horses? Well I'm sure to a closed minded person that would be true. But the fact is not everyone looks at something the same way that hardly means they can't be passonate about it. In fact around here differant views are considered a good thing.

But hey put people on ignore it shows just how much you actually care about a discussion or want respect for your and others opinions.

[CHorseFarm]

Meow! We haven't had a good catfight here in a while!

[lindat]

Hey guys, just wanted to cross post this article/video I found: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2836654/

Tammie listed is LilHighJumper on the giveaways board who has been actively trying to obtain horses from COTH members. Just an FYI to everyone who frequents the board and may have horses listed.

Thanks for sharing this!

[equineartworks]

Part of me has always wanted to have a retirement home for horses. Especially those who come from therapeutic settings. Most of those loves have already come from circumstances that aren't the best.

We are used to dealing with the sick animals, the "bad" animals, the abused and discarded animals, I have a house full right now...but honestly? I would never do it because unless I had a guaranteed funding source of a billion dollars to cover the care and expenses of the horses I took in I would never sleep. I would just worry constantly that something would happen and the life I promised to give them could be in jeopardy.

I'm a worry wart for sure, a slow and steady wins the race kinda girl. But I really wish people would stop "rescuing" things they cannot care for.

[Sansena]

...Just keep hitting that refresh button 'till the next round of chores need doin'...

**rolls eyes**

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I don't care what this woman looks like or her education - I care whether she is doing right by the horses she purports to rescue, and it appears that she doesn't.

So - KN, thank you very much for alerting the board. I hope it goes much wider than us.

[KPF]

(Ignoring catfight here and sticking to topic :))

It appears that this is a bogus "rescue" to me.

This is why I will do my damnedest to try & keep any horse I care about for life.

It sucks there are so many crooked "rescues" out there, they take away from the legitimate ones (like Sunkissed) that do right by animals. I'm convinced there is a special place in hell for the bogus "rescue" people, hopefully they'll spend eternity getting stomped on by their "rescues".

[equineartworks]

Amen to the stomping KPF!

[Katie-Nicole]

I just don't understand why people who can't afford the costs just can't volunteer. It's great experience, you become involved at a capacity you're capable of without causing any detriment to yourself or the horses. Whether the assistance you provide to a capable rescue is either financial or physical, it's appreciated and goes right to the cause. I just get so agitated by the pseudo-rescuers who can't do it themselves - physically or financially - and then get the "gimme syndrome" because they're so self-righteous because they've labeled themselves as "rescuers"

[equineartworks]

PERFECT answer Katie-Nicole!

My daughter and I volunteer several days a week at a Therapeutic Riding and Hippotherapy center. We get our riding in, get our horse lovin' in and get to hang out with some of the most amazing kids on the planet. I know rescues are almost always looking for help...In fact, most of the time they are desperate for it.

I sometimes wonder if it purely an ego thing? The Florence Nightingale syndrome or something along those lines?

[Katie-Nicole]

PERFECT answer Katie-Nicole!

My daughter and I volunteer several days a week at a Therapeutic Riding and Hippotherapy center. We get our riding in, get our horse lovin' in and get to hang out with some of the most amazing kids on the planet. I know rescues are almost always looking for help...In fact, most of the time they are desperate for it.

I sometimes wonder if it purely an ego thing? The Florence Nightingale syndrome or something along those lines?

I think it's the difference between a selfless sharing/giving of yourself, not being able to single yourself out and making it a team effort vs. the ability to say "I" rescue horses purely for the bragging rights. Some people just can't say "we".

And good on you and your daughter for giving back. I have volunteered with a thereputic riding center in the past and all the kids are so inspirational. Everyone should do it just once.

[Watermark Farm]

Thanks for the head-up on this gal. I agree with someone else who said that no responsible rescue goes looking for horses!

There are a lot of wonderful people helping horses out there, and there are a TON of hoarders. Like an addict, they get high by acquiring and keeping animals. The hallmark of a hoarder is that they don't let go of their animals, and they believe that others cannot take care of them like they do.

I have a horse who belonged to a hoarder for 15 years. She kept him, for his entire life (from weaning to age 15), in a 12x16 pen and never let him out. She fed him bread and lettuce and a little hay. He is SO messed up physically. She said she "loved" him and showed Animal Control baby photos of him when they FINALLY took him away.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/behind_closed_doors_the_horrors_of_animal_hoarding .html
Behind Closed Doors: The Horrors of Animal Hoarding | The Humane Society of the United States

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
The Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/99/1/hoarders.html

http://www.hoarders.org/ahn.html
Hoarding page
Animals in bondage: the hoarding mind, ANIMAL PEOPLE January/February 1999

[Katie-Nicole]

The black arab stallion I took in was from a hoarder. 16 years in a dark block barn. The poor guy had never seen sunlight. He was a headcase if there ever was one. Beautiful, but damaged goods. Very, very sad.

[7HL]

BS. Hoarding is not a sickness, it is irresponsible behavior. Why do so many people want to drop some "illness" label on these cretins, as if that somehow makes their actions understandable, if not forgiveable? I saw a couple of other people in that video, so obviously Ms. Tammie has some human friends.
People think they have the right to do anything they want to to animals. My guess is she's a low-rent dealer. (Did you notice the sign in that TV video that said "don't feed the horse"?)


Agree somewhat. Some people hoard just because they can. They come up with all kinds of excuses why.

[yellow-horse]

I'm glad the op has pointed out questionable behavior of this person seeking horses, many of us think the giveaway forum is a good place to post our animals that need new homes, if there is documented behavior, not just rumor to alert us to a request on giveaways, we need to know

[Tazzie]

I have a horse who belonged to a hoarder for 15 years. She kept him, for his entire life (from weaning to age 15), in a 12x16 pen and never let him out. She fed him bread and lettuce and a little hay. He is SO messed up physically. She said she "loved" him and showed Animal Control baby photos of him when they FINALLY took him away.

http://savingargus.blogspot.com/

For those of you that have not read it, this is Watermark's Blog about Argus, the horse she mentioned in her post above. It is a wonderful read with a happy ending, though beware, Watermark is a great writer and many of her blogs will have you in tears! (FYI - thanks Watermark, I look for an update every day and often wish that I was capable of giving Argus the last home that he will ever need.)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I just don't understand why people who can't afford the costs just can't volunteer. It's great experience, you become involved at a capacity you're capable of without causing any detriment to yourself or the horses. Whether the assistance you provide to a capable rescue is either financial or physical, it's appreciated and goes right to the cause. I just get so agitated by the pseudo-rescuers who can't do it themselves - physically or financially - and then get the "gimme syndrome" because they're so self-righteous because they've labeled themselves as "rescuers"

And - on my soapbox again - you can volunteer REMOTELY. Lori from Sunkissed lives in Georgia, I live in Missouri. But I help with flyers and newsletters and fund raising ideas. I am helping cowgirljenn of Bluebonnet (Texas!) by emailing or snailmailing requests for donations for their open house in early October.

You can write thank you notes for rescues. You can collect for donations. You can snip proofs of purchase from feed bags (for those companies that support this program). You can make flyers. You can help with a newsletter, you can help with a web site.

You don't even need to be computer literate. And you can do this sort of thing in snippets of time.

[Katie-Nicole]

And - on my soapbox again - you can volunteer REMOTELY. Lori from Sunkissed lives in Georgia, I live in Missouri. But I help with flyers and newsletters and fund raising ideas. I am helping cowgirljenn of Bluebonnet (Texas!) by emailing or snailmailing requests for donations for their open house in early October.

You can write thank you notes for rescues. You can collect for donations. You can snip proofs of purchase from feed bags (for those companies that support this program). You can make flyers. You can help with a newsletter, you can help with a web site.

You don't even need to be computer literate. And you can do this sort of thing in snippets of time.


No soapbox necessary. Amen sister!

[tweeter]

In the area she lives in, is there pasture grass for most of the year??

Our grass quits growing around the end of Sept....when the nights start to cool way down. Last year with the drought, it was very bad. So, unless she overseeded with rye, and irrigated it, she was in the same boat as the rest of us.

I have a little over 7 acres, divided up into one large, one medium and 3 small paddocks, plus I can close off my driveway to the barn, as well as let them graze around the barn itself. One small paddock tends to be wet, so that did stay green, but it's a very small area.

Two horses, one who is 30+ and sleeps most of the time. I had grass, but not much. We went thru a LOT of hay! There are at least 4 or 5 other COTHers in this area that I know of, think they'd agree that last year was not good for us.

[Chester's Mom]

Thanks for the head-up on this gal. I agree with someone else who said that no responsible rescue goes looking for horses!

There are a lot of wonderful people helping horses out there, and there are a TON of hoarders. Like an addict, they get high by acquiring and keeping animals. The hallmark of a hoarder is that they don't let go of their animals, and they believe that others cannot take care of them like they do.

I have a horse who belonged to a hoarder for 15 years. She kept him, for his entire life (from weaning to age 15), in a 12x16 pen and never let him out. She fed him bread and lettuce and a little hay. He is SO messed up physically. She said she "loved" him and showed Animal Control baby photos of him when they FINALLY took him away.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/behind_closed_doors_the_horrors_of_animal_hoarding .html
Behind Closed Doors: The Horrors of Animal Hoarding | The Humane Society of the United States

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
The Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/99/1/hoarders.html

http://www.hoarders.org/ahn.html
Hoarding page
Animals in bondage: the hoarding mind, ANIMAL PEOPLE January/February 1999


Argus??

edited to add: I see Tazzie answered and I missed it! I LOVE read about Argus. Argus rocks!! (and watermark farm is da best for helping him and his buddies...)

[BLBGP]

I'm glad the op has pointed out questionable behavior of this person seeking horses, many of us think the giveaway forum is a good place to post our animals that need new homes, if there is documented behavior, not just rumor to alert us to a request on giveaways, we need to know

Sadly, there are a lot of horse owners just looking to get out from under the bills so they prefer to turn a blind eye to where the horse is going. If it weren't for them, people like this wouldn't be able to hurt horses.

Here's some more information on hoarding from http://www.spcamc.org/humane-education.htm:

Animal hoarding is not about animal sheltering, rescue, or sanctuary and should not be confused with these legitimate efforts to help animals. It is about satisfying a human need to accumulate animals and control them, and this need supercedes the needs of the animals involved.

Animal hoarding is a poorly understood phenomenon which transcends simply owning or caring for more than the typical number of pets. It affects every community in the United States. It has serious consequences for people, animals, and communities. It is cruel to animals, it can devastate families, it can be associated with elder abuse, child abuse, and self-neglect, and be costly for municipalities to resolve. Without appropriate post-intervention treatment, recidivism approaches 100%.

HARC uses following criteria to define animal hoarding:

- More than the typical number of companion animals
- Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter, and veterinary care, with this neglect often resulting in starvation, illness, and death
- Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care and the impact of that failure on the animals, the household, and human occupants of the dwelling

In a typical hoarding situation, the hoarder will put their own needs to be surrounded by animals ahead of providing even the most basic care. Although professing great love for the animals, they are often oblivious to serious illness, animals in desperate need of veterinary care, starvation, and even death of the animals. Few if any animals are ever adopted or placed, and new animals are never turned away, even in the face of rapidly deteriorating conditions. There are often substantial efforts to acquire even more pets.

[enjoytheride]

I don't get why you're arguing about income. Income does AND doesn't have anything to do with taking care of horses. If you live within your means, have an easy keeper, a pasture that provides grass most of the summer, and set money back for expenses then you can afford a limited number of horses on your budget. You could have a safe run in, and safe electric tape fences. You might chose to put a horse down instead of going through a colic surgery, or not purchase a horse that needs lots of grain or injections. Nothing wrong with setting a limit and living in your means.

On the other hand you could be bringing in thousands of dollars every week and slowly starve your horse to death because you don't want to buy hay or grain, the horse could live in a barbed wire dirt paddock with no shelter, and you could not spend vet money on an infection or cut.

It's all about using money properly, not about who can spend the most on their horse.

[cowgirljenn]

In a typical hoarding situation, the hoarder will put their own needs to be surrounded by animals ahead of providing even the most basic care.

To add to this, hoarders often put their need to hoard over their own care, too. You'll find hoarders not only living in deplorable conditions (in homes that must be condemned), but also living will illnesses or infections that need to be treated. However they refuse- they're too busy collecting more animals.

[Katie-Nicole]

I don't get why you're arguing about income. Income does AND doesn't have anything to do with taking care of horses. If you live within your means, have an easy keeper, a pasture that provides grass most of the summer, and set money back for expenses then you can afford a limited number of horses on your budget. You could have a safe run in, and safe electric tape fences. You might chose to put a horse down instead of going through a colic surgery, or not purchase a horse that needs lots of grain or injections. Nothing wrong with setting a limit and living in your means.

On the other hand you could be bringing in thousands of dollars every week and slowly starve your horse to death because you don't want to buy hay or grain, the horse could live in a barbed wire dirt paddock with no shelter, and you could not spend vet money on an infection or cut.

It's all about using money properly, not about who can spend the most on their horse.


And that's not what I'm saying at all. Tammie did not have the means to take on the horses she did, and that was a decision she made that has greatly affected the life of the horses in her care in a negative way, and she continues to take on more. Plain and simple, special needs horses cost more than the plump easy keeper I wish every horse could be.

I think in this case, intentions just don't cut it. Could she have started with a good heart but not a lot of brains - sure. Results are what matter here - because for those ailing horses, results are the difference between life and death. Unless she can begin making significant improvements in the quality of care, condition and health of the horses currently in her care, no way on God's green earth should she be taking on anymore. I don't care if she wins the lottery tomorrow - what she's doing today leaves a lot to be desired.

I don't think those people going out and spending primo bucks on saddles, tack, equipment, etc. take better care than those that maintain their horses on second-hand supplies and bargain shopping deals. In fact, if you look at the monograms of a lot of the stuff in my barn - the initials aren't mine. I have no qualms about not having new or the best. I've never owned a brand new saddle either, and it doesn't matter. It's about the investment you're willing to make in your horse - emotional or financial. It's about making them a priority in your life - especially if you're taking on the great responsibility of trying to rehab a rescue. A horse in poor condition takes time, money, dedication, patience, care and knowledge - and more than one of those is missing from Tammie's Rescue Equation.

[Obi]

Trying to bring the post back the original subject, here is a pm I sent someone who was posting their horse on the giveway forum. This was set over 3 weeks ago and it was regarding a horse being possibly sent from NY to NC.


I noticed your post and I would love to take this guy on but due to the drought and hay issues, I do not want to over-extend myself. I did want to give you a heads up over the inquiry by liljumper (from NC). I could be paranoid or perhaps overly suspicious but this is a new poster and she is replying to a lot of free to good home ads. No information on her profile discloses her 'rescue' and with the state of hay and economic issues in NC right now, I really do not think that rescues need to 'find' horses to take in.

I may be too nosey but I wanted to pm you this concern. I live in NC (elon/greensboro) area and do not know anything about liljumper. If you do send the horse down this way, you are more than welcome to have my info/contact numbers as a back up to check on him. I just think it would be good back up to know that you can have an extra set of eyes if he does go out of state.

Good luck placing him. I would so love to take him on but I have to be realistic as I have 2 now. Horses can be like potato chips but I am keeping it to one serving

[Katie-Nicole]

Our dear friend Tammie has posted on the Giveaways board saying "It's not me." For anyone who would like to verify: http://360.yahoo.com/lilrodeo4u

Notice the name and photo on the left had side of the screen. Do a google search of the name, and see what you come up with. The lilrodeo4u screen name is also her yahoo e-mail address.

[Katie-Nicole]

Dearest Tammie changed her picture on yahoo 360 to a sticker that says "I am who I am - your approval isn't needed" Kind of a strange thing to do seeing as she claims it's not her on the video. (I guarantee you it was)

Her most recent reply:

All of my guys eat the best of feed...they arent starved at all..i dont need help... how could an animal who is on grass pasture free choice...have a large roundbale in the pasture with them, and be on either triple crown sr or ultium be considered starving?....I do srs by choice...I have spent over 50,000 since last september trying to be sure they are taken care of. I have drove anywhere from SC to VA to pick up hay..have paid to have it shipped in. I think Ms kate has been on my ass since i first sighned in....for what i dont see...Point given is collectors dont feed horses, they dont vet them..ect. All my guys are up to date..see the vet when needed...so what gives. You dont know me or anything about my animals...and others on here have been posting as their Alter just instigatin shit. whatever.

I'm totally convinced. Aren't you?

[tweeter]

What I find funny is that she hasn't ventured out of the Giveaways Forum long enough to find this thread:lol:

And, she's spent over 50K in the last year on them? I'd love to know how she's supporting them. There aren't many jobs in this area that pay that kind of money unless you are in nursing (I'm an RN), work at the Goodyear plant (and new hires don't make what the old timers make)...or maybe she's in the Army?

The most I paid for hay last year was about $450 a ton for nice T/A, and I got that in Aberdeen, about 50 miles from Fayetteville. No need to go all the way to SC and waste all that fuel.

[edit]

Honestly, I'd love to have another horse. One to plod around on and maybe teach me...and to keep my old guy company. I swear he's gonna give himself a heart attack when I take my youngster out to work. BUT, I want to be sure the horse I get is perfect for us, because we'll have him forever.

Funny too, that she's not offered to let any COTHers visit her farm. If I was adopting I'd welcome the owners with open arms at any time.

[Katie-Nicole]

I big, huge thank you to the COTHer that posted about this on the comments on Fugly. trixtwh, I could hug you. I hope like heck that Fugly will catch wind and post about this insanity on her blog.

[county]

How do you know she hasn't found this thread?

[tweeter]

How do you know she hasn't found this thread?

I'm sure she'd respond, she has on the Giveaways. Maybe I'm wrong tho.

Honestly, if someone talked like this about me, I'd ask for someone to come out, take photos, see what I'm doing. There are several COTHers in her area, and if you add in the peeps from SP there are even more.

We shall see, maybe we'll hear from her today.

[Woodland]

I do not know this woman or her operation. However as a rehabilitator, I have had the "authorities" called on me when someone has seen a recent arrival. Instead of asking questions about the animal they ASSUME [/U]I [/U]have neglected it.

When you get a level one 30 year old horse in - it takes TIME to heal -IF it can even be healed. :no:

I always say "look at the others and look at my feed bills - proof enough".

[county]

According to some on here the $50K would be needed to care for 10 horses. How many does she have? How long have they been with her? I know people that have been turned in for neglect for horses they had less then a week? Their were hardly the ones that caused the problems.

[Katie-Nicole]

I do not know this woman or her operation. However as a rehabilitator, I have had the "authorities" called on me when someone has seen a recent arrival. Instead of asking questions about the animal they ASSUME [/U]I [/U]have neglected it.

When you get a level one 30 year old horse in - it takes TIME to heal -IF it can even be healed. :no:

I always say "look at the others and look at my feed bills - proof enough".

The problem is the emaciated horse was less the exception and more the norm in this woman's case. She tried to write it off as the horses "have cancer" and are a score of 1 on the body scale - if that's the case, anyone with half a brain would have euthanized the animal due to a terminal disease instead of pouring money into them. [edit]

[goeslikestink]

Ditto. No legitimate rescue EVER needs to go looking for horses. Just ask Lori of Sunkissed Acres (snkstacres here on COTH). They bang on her door, dump them at the gate in the middle of the night and tie them to the fence post in the afternoon while she's out.

Granted, we don't know the whole story but any rescue that has horses that are UBER hardkeepers have paperwork from vets up the wazoo to show that the horse is aged, diseased, etc. so that any time anyone questions the horse's weight, there is written documentation to prove it truly is a medical reason beyond a human's control. Ms. Montiel offered no such documentation.

It just makes it look suspicious/questionable.

right on chocy

[goeslikestink]

(Ignoring catfight here and sticking to topic :))

It appears that this is a bogus "rescue" to me.

This is why I will do my damnedest to try & keep any horse I care about for life.

It sucks there are so many crooked "rescues" out there, they take away from the legitimate ones (like Sunkissed) that do right by animals. I'm convinced there is a special place in hell for the bogus "rescue" people, hopefully they'll spend eternity getting stomped on by their "rescues".

that i agree with, take the donations and spend elsewehere and not on the animals in question
which does happen

as regards to county -- hes a bisness man, knowing commercial people as i do know very well bit here in uk or there in usa

i can say with all honesty most people like county if the horse has to be pts or slaughtered then he will make sure the horse is treated with respect be it even if it had a few days out in a field or done striaght of depending on circumstances he would do right by the horse at that time
the same as he does right by other animals- just becuase hes a slaughter buys and sells
doesnt mean to say that he never treats the horse with disrespect

when once has a business such as his, as lets put in comparison a very well known english event rider brother has smae type of business is the major slaughterer for joe public and defra-approved

its not easy job to have to do-------- and to be honest i know i that county would look after my horses well if i left them with him for any time i would come back to well looked after horse--

the people that have lost horses knows how that feel lik to lsoe a horse or to have one going to be pts to sleep etc those that havent dont know how that feels till the day it happensthey can only imagine,

imagine people like vets and people like county that have to do that every day-- so be a bit more respectful, as it might just be him that has to see to your horse for you,, and to be honest i would ratherr have him do it and treat the horse with dignity and respect than some joe blogg i dont know off the street..

[hitchinmygetalong]

I just checked the Giveaways Forum and maybe I missed it, but wouldn't this information be helpful on THAT forum as well as this one? Seems to me it should be stickied to the top in big bold letters.

[Katie-Nicole]

The information is contained in this thread: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=164136

[hitchinmygetalong]

Have the mods been alerted?

[AnotherRound]

I think COTH should not support scammers, hoarders, or abusers, and I will be very very concerned if they allow her to continue to post on this board.

[county]

I haven't been able to follow this whole deal but has this person been convicted of a crime involving these horses? Or is it a personal thing where shes been accused by people on here but thats it?

[Katie-Nicole]

I wonder if COTH has the ability to block an IP address. Because we all know she'll make another ID using another e-mail and keep it up.

[ChocoMare]

I wonder if COTH has the ability to block an IP address. Because we all know she'll make another ID using another e-mail and keep it up.

Yes. That's exactly how COTH Mods ban people.

[Ambrey]

I wonder if COTH has the ability to block an IP address. Because we all know she'll make another ID using another e-mail and keep it up.

Yes, but most ISPs use "dynamic" IP addresses for their customers, so people's IPs change frequently. A static IP address costs extra ;)

That is why most bans anywhere only apply to a username. They might ban the IP, but as soon as it resets the person is back.

[7HL]

With all the uproar from animal over population to slaughter, has hoarding animals become lost? They throw out that they are rescuing and saving these animals, when they get confronted.

Why aren't animal cruelty laws, which this fall under more actively prosecuted? When they are why only a slap on the wrist? Maybe some jail time is in order. Zoning laws in some cases are ignored. Neighbors look the other way. I realize in some cases they live in areas where the community attitude is, "it's none of your business".

Banning this person will just get them to move on. Unless they have a static IP address usually only available to corporations or business. Banning an IP address sometimes you end up banning more then one person. This said new screen names that appear from an IP address that has had a banned screen name should be closely monitored.

[Katie-Nicole]

I also wanted to give everyone the heads up that Tammie Montiel also goes by Tammie Schroll.

[tweeter]

I haven't been able to follow this whole deal but has this person been convicted of a crime involving these horses? Or is it a personal thing where shes been accused by people on here but thats it?

County, the Harnett County Animal Control was called, there's a link somewhere to the article, but no charges were filed. Her landlord was going to ask her to leave I believe.

The concern was raised because she was a new poster, and was answering almost every ad in the Giveaways, for some as far away as CA (shipping paid by the owner), and she's in NC. Her claim is that she's a rescue/retirement farm.

It's raised more than a few flags for some of us who are concerned that COTHers may be being deceived.

She may be legit, but right now things just don't seem add up.

[county]

Doesn't sound like everything adds up but the mods should ban her? For what reason? I mean seriously if everyone was banned because some others didn't like what they do how many here would be left?

[BLBGP]

With all the uproar from animal over population to slaughter, has hoarding animals become lost? They throw out that they are rescuing and saving these animals, when they get confronted.

Why aren't animal cruelty laws, which this fall under more actively prosecuted? When they are why only a slap on the wrist? Maybe some jail time is in order. Zoning laws in some cases are ignored. Neighbors look the other way. I realize in some cases they live in areas where the community attitude is, "it's none of your business".


The laws depend on where you live. Here in CA, a successful animal hoarding prosecution receives jail time, restitution, and probation from owning animals for a set period of time. If you read the previously posted information on hoarding, jail time simply doesn't work. Serious therapy is what is needed, but that is not included in sentencing. Probation without therapy doesn't work, either, sadly....it just keeps them from hurting more animals for a set period of time (usually 2 to 3 years).

If you want to enact change, lobby to get better animal protection laws in your area. That's a start. Hopefully you have a good humane society in your area that has a good relationship with the DA and can prosecute these cases successfully. But if the right laws don't exist on the books, then there's not much that can be prosecuted.

[county]

Sometimes those laws are on the books but theres just no manpower our resources to enforce them. We have the laws but theres no HS or AC in this county and the CA has a staff of 3. This county is dead last for average income and the tax payers aren't exactly tripping over themselves to pay more taxes for a bigger CA staff.

[Katie-Nicole]

PEARS, Tammie's 'rescue', started in 2006 and Tammie leased land from Leslie Bedesma. She was removed from that farm and in September 2007 moved to Tim and Bonnie Hunt's farm. She leased the barn and pastures. The Hunt's were in no way responsible for the horses on their property and took the steps to evict Tammie in May 2008 after they were forced to witness the decline in the horses condition and their depositions state that the horses went extended periods of time without food. The news article states that at one point she had 25 horses, and in May 2008 she had 11. What happened to those other 14 horses? There were three extremely emaciated horses that the Hunts say were just "gone" one day. Tammie refused to say what happened to them after inquiries from the Hunts and AC. The investigative reporter said that several people who inquired as to the poor condition of the horses in Tammie's care and to the fate of horses that have gone missing state that Tammie has become hostile and treatening in response to those inquiries. As well, the PEARS website has no information on how to adopt horses - no links to adoption applications or available horses. IMHO, not the kind of conduct of any reputable rescue.

[county]

Mine either but not illegal. And exactly what was asked of her and how was it asked? I mean seriously if someone jumps down your throat right from the start would you answer them? I know I wouldn't. Theres many people on this forum that attack someone if they don't do things their way, spend money how they spend it, a whole list of things. Why should anyone answer them if they choose not to? Doesn't make them doing something illegal. Maybe this person is breaking laws, etc. But until shes convicted should she be banned? After she is whos next and for what?

This isn't Survivor this is real life.

[tkhawk]

She sounds a bit weird though. Why is she enquiring about horses in CA if she is in NC?? If hse was that desparate to rescue-the local auctions should have horses for rock bottom prices. Some people-maybe she just likes the attention from people, the idea of being a rescue...

[county]

I agree she sounds strange but then I've not heard her side either. But do we really want everyone banned someone thinks is strange?

[tkhawk]

I think if she reads this thread and she is as reported, she probably will refrain from posting herself. If she is as claimed, she will probably just move on to another board. If she has been maligned, she can of course come out and give her side or maybe decide not worth it. Either way it does not look like we are going to hear much from her anyway...

[JoZ]

I agree she sounds strange but then I've not heard her side either. But do we really want everyone banned someone thinks is strange?

County, unlike most of the people here, I usually agree with you. But sometimes it seems like you are missing the point on purpose. Maybe to see the fur fly here? I don't know.

"Strange" is talking baby-talk to your animals, or dressing your dog, or wearing funny clothes. When strange leaks over into the actual care an animal is getting, that's abuse or neglect. And yes, at that point I want action taken.

And I don't have to hear the other side in all cases. This person may think she is doing well by the horses. Pictures say differently. I think the evidence in pictures is enough to present as a warning to other donors.

[tweeter]

Maybe it's me, but if someone were questioning why I was inquiring about horses, I'd invite them to my barn (hell, I'd even make fresh coffee), inspect my horses,I'd provide the names of my vet, farrier, trainer, where I get feed and hay. I want my name free and clear. But then, I have nothing to hide.

[VAHorseGurl]

First off, I do not condone animal abuse. :no: And if this Tammie is actually doing this, then she will get what is coming to her.

However, do any of you know this woman first hand, on a personal basis and work closely with her as a volunteer? Has she been convicted of animal abuse, or even awaiting a trial for animal abuse? I find nothing to suggest any course of action has been taken by Harnett County.

I understand letting other COTHer's know of a potential problem but to out right acuse and abuse someone without proof positive is simple abuse in itself. I also did not see anything mentioned about COTH in that article.

As for Katie-Nicole's crass remarks about Tammie's physical appearence, her lack of education(assumption), and the color of her 'neck', well that is all just simply childish and uncalled for, and you come off as a High School Bully on the internet.

I own 4 dogs and 1 horse and while I am not a millionaire, I care for my dogs and horse the best I can. None of them are skinny, sick, or in need of rescue, but I do not have a large savings account to cover 'what ifs'. And if that makes me a bad pet owner, then so be it. But I will not let anyone sit in judgement over me when I know my animals, all my animals, are well cared for, fully vaccinated, spayed/neutered/gelded, and eat every day.

I find that taking one person's word, without definitive proof, that this lilhighjumper person is the same person in the video is passing judgement on someone I don't know, and I don't think I'll be jumping on the bandwagon.

I will say this, the horses in the video need to be removed and cared for properly and if they do indeed have diseases, they need to be humanely euthenized.

Just my 2 cents....

~Kerri & Pete

[county]

Strange is what each person feels it is. I no more want fur to fly then the next person and like I said the pictures I saw the horses didn't look well cared for. But like I asked and still wonder did she have them for a week or a year? Some people ask questions and wonder about things others don't. I happen to be one that does.

[Katie-Nicole]

Her overall actions point to her guilt. She removed her photo from her yahoo 360 page, because it confirmed her presence in the video - it nullified her "It's not me." defense. Her nasty retorts and threatening behavior also points to a wrong-doing on her part. I've been questioned about rescues on my farm - I had a 40 year old pony who was skinny but we were giving him a summer to enjoy himself and let him be a pony after doing carnival rides his entire life and if anyone ever asked about him - my response? "Come on over and visit, I'll show you what I'm doing. My barn is open."

[VAHorseGurl]

Her overall actions point to her guilt. She removed her photo from her yahoo 360 page, because it confirmed her presence in the video - it nullified her "It's not me." defense.

Katie, be very careful with following/stalking someone around the internet hoping to dredge up more for the rumor mill. It's called Internet Harassment and it can get you into trouble.

I have first hand experience with it as a victim. :(

[county]

Nasty retorts are a sign of guilt? If thats the case there won't be many of us left on here. I've also been accused of things by people over the years and have nothing to hide. But most of those times I told them to kiss my ass and get a warrant if they want to see anything. Of course each time it was when the person made some ignorant accusation in a snide way right from the start. But either way no one has to prove a thing to anyone just because. Unless their the law its none of their business.

[VAHorseGurl]

I have to agree with County on this one.

I was accused of having a litter of Mastiff puppies in my root cellar, not allowing them fresh air and food and water by a someone who felt I needed to live my life by her rules.

The Humane investigator showed up at my place poking her nose around before she had the common courtsey of knocking on my door and allowing me to acknowledge her presence. Once I realized she was snooping on private property, I confront her in a polite manner and she began to verbally abuse me immediately.

I told her to get off my property and if she wanted to check my house, she better bring a Sheriff's deputy with her next time. She stood at the bottom of my driveway and phoned the sheriff's office, they immediately returned my first phone call and I asked them to send a deputy out.

This is where it gets nasty, this woman thought I was actually going to let her in my home after she called me a filthy white trash Redneck. I told the Deputy she was welcome to inspect my home and offered to open doors she had simply walked past, but that nasty humane investigator was not welcome in my home or on my property.

Well, what did the deputy find, NOTHING! I had an 8yr old intact English Mastiff, a 13yr old spayed Pit mix, and a 1yr old neutered APBT. No Puppies, but that Humane investigator took someone elses word as gospel.

Moral of this story, don't judge without definitive proof.

[tweeter]

Nasty retorts are a sign of guilt? If thats the case there won't be many of us left on here. I've also been accused of things by people over the years and have nothing to hide. But most of those times I told them to kiss my ass and get a warrant if they want to see anything. Of course each time it was when the person made some ignorant accusation in a snide way right from the start. But either way no one has to prove a thing to anyone just because. Unless their the law its none of their business.

Of course nasty retorts aren't a sign of guilt, and no she doesn't "have" to prove anything. All in all, I guess I'd just WANT to prove I was on the up and up, but then I wouldn't have made a nasty reply to begin with.

I want her to be legit, I'd like to think she was trying to help out these horses, but it's not easy to believe it at this point.

[Katie-Nicole]

Katie, be very careful with following/stalking someone around the internet hoping to dredge up more for the rumor mill. It's called Internet Harassment and it can get you into trouble.

I have first hand experience with it as a victim. :(

It's not stalking when the information is publicly available and in fact, Tammie offered it up herself. I went to County's homepage listed on his profile, does that mean I'm stalking him?

[county]

You mean everything thats been said abouitr her is on her home page? I missed most of it, didn't see where she mentioned shes a redneck, didn't see where she said she absuses anything, didn't see alot of stuff said about her.

[tullyleague]

Thanks for the head-up on this gal. I agree with someone else who said that no responsible rescue goes looking for horses!

There are a lot of wonderful people helping horses out there, and there are a TON of hoarders. Like an addict, they get high by acquiring and keeping animals. The hallmark of a hoarder is that they don't let go of their animals, and they believe that others cannot take care of them like they do.

I have a horse who belonged to a hoarder for 15 years. She kept him, for his entire life (from weaning to age 15), in a 12x16 pen and never let him out. She fed him bread and lettuce and a little hay. He is SO messed up physically. She said she "loved" him and showed Animal Control baby photos of him when they FINALLY took him away.

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/behind_closed_doors_the_horrors_of_animal_hoarding .html
Behind Closed Doors: The Horrors of Animal Hoarding | The Humane Society of the United States

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/
The Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/99/1/hoarders.html

http://www.hoarders.org/ahn.html
Hoarding page
Animals in bondage: the hoarding mind, ANIMAL PEOPLE January/February 1999

I didn't realize you were Argus' mom! I found your blog ages ago and read his story word for word. I think I left a message for you there saying something like, "There is a special place in heaven for you." Please give Argus a smooch from me.

[jeta]

I wonder if COTH has the ability to block an IP address. Because we all know she'll make another ID using another e-mail and keep it up.


You know I often wonder if banning is not the best alternative....The devil you know is better than the one you don't...or something like that....

[Katie-Nicole]

You know I often wonder if banning is not the best alternative....The devil you know is better than the one you don't...or something like that....

I really don't care whether she gets banned or not. That is not the solution to this lady's problems. I do hope she's realized she's been had here and ceases her attempts to gain any more horses from COTH members.

[Sithly]

Have to say I agree with county. Awful lot of accusations flying around that have not yet been legally substantiated. This thread is really toeing the line of what's acceptable here at COTH.

And really, claiming that someone's guilty because they responded defensively? Yikes. That's your proof? The only thing that proved to me was that you can brag about a college degree without absorbing any of the critical thinking skills you were supposed to have learned from it.

[VAHorseGurl]

It's not stalking when the information is publicly available and in fact, Tammie offered it up herself. I went to County's homepage listed on his profile, does that mean I'm stalking him?


Whether publically placed on the net by Tammie or not, you don't need to post it about for other's to see. Let them find it on their own if they are so inclined.

You are only helping to defame lilhighjumper with no definitivie proof offered by you that this poster is indeed Tammie from the news article.

[Katie-Nicole]

Whether publically placed on the net by Tammie or not, you don't need to post it about for other's to see. Let them find it on their own if they are so inclined.

You are only helping to defame lilhighjumper with no definitivie proof offered by you that this poster is indeed Tammie from the news article.

Ok, I posted the information I know to be true in the effort to protect other people's horses from a very risky fate at the hands of Tammie Montiel. You want to prove me wrong VAHorseGurl - Send her your horse and tell me what happens. But I'm sure you wouldn't let your horse be the innocent victim, and no other COTHers horse should bear that burden either. It's all about preventing the worst from happening, rather than turning a blind eye and believeing that the world is all rainbows and butterflies until that belief is shattered by images of [edit] horses that aren't receiving the care they need and deserve. I sleep well at night not playing Devil's Advocate. My horses are safe, and if I can help other COTHers know that they're keeping their horses safe, then all the better.

[VAHorseGurl]

Katie,

Okay, this is my last post, as this is absolutely ridiculious! You aren't listenting to anyone here and behaving rather immaturely.

Fine, you know lilhighjumper to be one in the same person as Tammie Montiel from the article. Post the Article and waring to other COTHers and leave it at that.

Don't belittle yourself by name call, sitting in judgement where the courts have not been yet, and don't post out information YOU sought out on Tammie or lilhighjumper for others to gander at and jump on your bandwagon.

You could have been far more adult about this situation. If you are 100% sure these 2 people are one in the same, you could have PM'd all posters with a private warning and allowed them to make their own judgement call.

As for Pete, well, he's simply NOT GOING anywhere for a long time, if ever. As for sleeping well at night, I most assuredly do Miss Katie, but the fact remains, you could still have been the BETTER Person about this entire situation.

[Moderator 1]

We took this thread offline while we looked into the situation and have removed some posts due to personal commentary, accusations, etc.

Due to identical email addresses between the poster in question and that affiliated with the rescue/individual featured in the news story, the two do appear to be the same.

There have been no charges filed against this person, so avoid making accusations of criminal/abusive activity. You're free to comment on what you see regarding the condition of the horses in the news video at the time it was shot and the content of the story, but bear in mind that there is no history given on these animals and no action has yet been taken by the authorities.

---------------------------------------------------------------

As far as this individual's activity on the Giveaways forum:

She has posted on a total of THREE threads where she actually expressed an interest in the horses being offered. One was a 22-year-old semi-retired show hunter; another was the aforementioned two retired jumpers from CA for whom she offered a retirement home, and the last was a pony she inquired about, for an apparent associate.

The other threads she has posted upon in which horses were being offered, she has NOT expressed an interest in the horses themselves. Instead, she offered her opinion on contracts for placing an older horse, exercise for an arthritic horse, supplements and breeding responsibility.

She has offered up a horse for adoption in response to a NC-based "wanted" request.

She started a thread regarding finding a place to purchase a specific supplement for a new horse, and also said she'd appreciate donations of unused jars.

She expressed interest in several items offered for free, including a chihuahua, boots and britches.

She's also posted in non-Giveaways forums on several topics.

---------------------------------------------------------

This poster has not violated any rules of the board, and there have been no charges filed or actions taken against her by the authorities.

The news story regarding the condition of the horses in her care understandably raises great alarm as to her presence in the Giveaways forum. Despite our concerns, we are not in a position to prove or disprove legal or criminal claims made against individuals--that is the job of the authorities involved.

That being said, we will be contacting the poster in question with a strong recommendation that she limit her activities on the board until these issues have been resolved.

We do sincerely thank you for your concern,
Mod 1

[Katie-Nicole]

Thank you moderators for bringing back this post after verifying the information provided! If it can help any COTH member keep their horse safe, it's well worth it.

[Katie-Nicole]

I just had a very enlightening conversation with Tino Medina at the Harnett County Animal Control. He told me that there is still a very active issue with Tammie and that she is under orders by AC that she is not to take on any horses or animals, nor is she to be breeding any animals (and there are issues with her keeping a stallion. Tino mentioned there are several dates where he's broken through fences and assistance was called to help recover the horse. USERL and AC are trying to have him gelded but Tammie continues to be resistant.) Tino said that since Tammie has moved to Lee County, he's been actively working the case with board supervision by the US Equine Rescue League. He said the case has long been withstanding - 10+ years and he didn't want to release the case to the already overwhelmed Lee County AC. I've provided him print outs of posts and my private messages and he states that he will be taking it to the board of USERL and they will proceed with confronting Tammie. He said that Tammie was required to release a number of horses to the USERL during the eviction process and [two] of thoses needed to be euthanized due to their condition [one of which was a senior horse with pre-existing major medical conditions]. Those that weren't have improved under the care of USERL. If you need to confirm this, please PM me and I'll happily provide you with Tino's contact information. Anyone from COTH that may have given their horse or any other animal to Tammie, please contact me immediately.

[tweeter]

This just gets worse and worse. Please keep us updated! I've not seen anything in the local paper about this, but that's not really any surprise.

[Alice]

Hmm, where is VAHorseGurl's righteous indignation now?

I'm sure her experience with being unfairly investigated was not pleasant, but should it mean that no one ever is questioned until charges are laid in a court of law? How on earth would those charges be laid in the first place if the public didn't question these situations?

Thank god for people who take it upon themselves to investigate and get the word out, otherwise these people are able to continue their operations unhindered.

Edited to add: the allegations against this woman had some substance to them based upon internet postings, so it wasn't a random witch hunt. Woman also had the opportunity to respond.

[VAHorseGurl]

Hmm, where is VAHorseGurl's righteous indignation now?

I'm sure her experience with being unfairly investigated was not pleasant, but should it mean that no one ever is questioned until charges are laid in a court of law? How on earth would those charges be laid in the first place if the public didn't question these situations?

Thank god for people who take it upon themselves to investigate and get the word out, otherwise these people are able to continue their operations unhindered.

Edited to add: the allegations against this woman had some substance to them based upon internet postings, so it wasn't a random witch hunt. Woman also had the opportunity to respond.

WOW Alice, you're awful mature?

[Alice]

Just calling it like I see it.

[tweeter]

Looks like Katie-Nichole was right on with this one. Haven't seen any posts from her (Lilhighjumper) for a while, so I'm betting she's moved on to "help" on other boards.

I can't believe she was only about 5 miles from me and I didn't know she was there. Which is prolly a good thing for her :D

[Katie-Nicole]

Ohh... Tweeter... bad wording. :lol: I've been around. Tammie has been lurking. I've seen her online, but she hasn't been posting. She was signed in a few hours ago. I don't know whether she's viewed this post, but frankly, I don't care because it's 100% true.

If Tammie is on other forums, hopefully there's a COTH crossover and she's found out there, keeping horses safe. Maybe Tino will lay down the law and confiscate the horses as she's non-compliant with requests made by the authorities. Who knows. Her ride on COTH was short lived, and we're all the better for it.

[tweeter]

Uh, yeah that was definitely NOT the best wording! I'll go back and edit it :o

She may not see this since it isn't in the "Giveaways" ;) but ya never know.

[Policy of Truth]

I'm glad this was allowed to come back. I really hope Lee county can do something about this situation. I'm sorry for those who had horses in her care. :no: How sad for them. :(

[Moderator 1]

After contacting Tino Medina, Supervisor of Harnett County Animal Control, we have verified that the subject of the thread has been under investigation, but that no charges have been made and she has always followed the requests of his department and the vets involved.

As she's now moved, she's under the jurisdiction of a different office, which will be handling the situation going forward. This board does not exist to prove guilt or innocence in these cases; that is the job of the authorities involved. We're closing the thread pending official charges, as we've had to amend or remove further allegations from posts subsequent to our last notice.

We have restricted her access to the Giveaways forum.

Thanks,
Mod 1