Aussie pics/fit

[cloudy18]

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=ar27h75a.9gahps1e&Uy=6yawkq&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&UV=770042674523_789037412210&localeid=en_US

I hope that link takes you to the slideshow, if not I am sorry. In another thread someone said to post pics, so here's my attempts. This is the Kimberley Poley I bought from Down Under. I think it fits very well, although I will definitely need a breast collar to keep it in place, there is NO WAY that it is staying there. I was concerned about the wither clearance, but Down Under said that it's going to be like that bc of her high withers. I sent them pics and they called back and told me it was way too far back, so these were my try again pics. I tried this on a large QH today that has been having saddle fit issues, and it sit low on him also, although not quite as low bc his withers were lower. Anyway, what do you think? I hope it works for the long haul bc I am going to buy a breast collar and the wool covers for that, and maybe wool covers for the stirrup leathers too, which will run about $170, plus shipping.

[GallopingGrape]

My two concerns are the wither clearance... Once you cinch up and sit in that saddle, ther is NO room whatsoever. Second would be your statment that there is no way the saddle is staying there. Breat Collars are necessary, but they shouldn't be what holds that saddle in place. If the saddle fit properly, it would basically stay there. Does it slide back? Side to side? If its that mobile, imagine the pressure that will be under a breast collar basically holding that saddle on..... Just my 2 cents.

[cloudy18]

It does not move side to side. It will slide back, how easily I am not sure. I rode her around my yard a couple times, up and down our hill, and trotted and loped a little, and it moved back some. I didn't have it cinched up very tight either. It should conform better to her back after some riding too, so I am not too concerned about that. More about the wither clearance.When I am in the saddle I can get one finger under the pommel, and maybe another half, like that's easy to measure. Maybe I should go double check. This is what sucks about not having anyone nearby who is competent at saddle fitting.

[GallopingGrape]

My worry would be, once the saddle gets broken in and "conforms"..... it will compress even more down on that wither..... The stuffing in those saddles will compress.... I know it is not what you wanted to hear, but I'm afraid, eventually, it won't fit. :no:

[Kellye]

It looks like your saddle fits very well. There is more wither clearance than the pictures show, I suspect, because the gold cloth is actually hiding how much room there actually is. I also have a Kimberly saddle and saddle fitting is a hobby of mine. Also, it is very common to use breast collars with Aussie saddles. The saddles tend to sit on the horse so that a breastcollar is very useful to keep it in place.

But don't buy the expensive stirrup leather covers!! Get a cheapie fleece girth cover, cut it into 2 pieces and use that instead! That's what I did and it works great. I loved my Aussie saddle from Down Under, unfortunately, my high withered, prominent backboned, slab-sided horse who I bought it for decided to gain tons of weight and muscle as she gained back her figure after having a baby, and the saddle doesn't fit her any more. When she was out of shape, it fit her perfectly. Stupid me...I should have waited a few more months to buy the saddle but I got impatient and bought it too soon. Oh well, I sure enjoyed that saddle while it fit. That was the MOST comfortable seat I've ever sat in. I even took some dressage lessons in it, and my instructor complimented me on how nicely it put me into a correct position.

EDITED: I must have been typing when you responded and stand corrected. If you can only get a finger and a half under the wither area, you may indeed have a saddle that is too wide. It will compress down, like the other poster said. You may need to get a narrower saddle with more wither clearance. On my Kimberley, I could get almost my entire hand under the wither area when the saddle fit my mare, before she got her figure back.

[cloudy18]

Yeah, I can get a hand in, the wide way, but not vertically. Just less than 2 fingers. So should I redo the wither tracing and send it back and have them adjust? Is it going to be a problem with it sliding back bc of her higher withers? My next option was to try a Bob Marshall, but i really like the Aussies.

[katarine]

It's way too far forward in these pics, actually. Are these the pics that they judged the saddle to be too far back???

You don't have enough clearance, I'm sorry :(

[GallopingGrape]

Katherine, I'm sorry to object but this saddle DEFINITELY isn't too far back. Any further up on this horses neck and she'll be riding on it.... :no:

[GallopingGrape]

I'm sorry... I just re-red your post Katherine... sorry... :D

[sublimequine]

As others have mentioned, seems too wide. It MIGHT work right now if you put a nice thick pad beneath it.. but padding is never a great long-term solution and the second those serge panels settle down you're kinda out of luck.

I think Down Under offers one free adjustment after buying a saddle from them, and can adjust their trees to narrower rather easily. Drop them a line and ask. :)

[cloudy18]

These are the pics where they said it fit well. I sent other pics with the saddle back where it settles naturally, and they told me it was WAY too far back and to move it up, the cinch should just be about a finger behind her foreleg. Let me see if I can find them and post the link for those, just for poops and giggles.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=ar27h75a.708e2chu&Uy=dautus&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&UV=223028202371_343473512210&localeid=en_US

These are where they said it's too far back, but this is where it wants to be. This, however, is still lacking clearance AND it tips it forward just enough to where I end up pushed against the poleys. Annoying.

I do get a free adjustment, but am wondering if it is worth the bother. If it really belongs up further it will take a breast collar to keep it there. Which is fine, unless that is going to irritate my horse. Judging by the pics of the horse in this new set of photos, any opinions on a decent saddle? Bob Marshall? Or give this one more try? AUGH!

[sublimequine]

These are the pics where they said it fit well. I sent other pics with the saddle back where it settles naturally, and they told me it was WAY too far back and to move it up, the cinch should just be about a finger behind her foreleg. Let me see if I can find them and post the link for those, just for poops and giggles.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=ar27h75a.708e2chu&Uy=dautus&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&UV=223028202371_343473512210&localeid=en_US

These are where they said it's too far back, but this is where it wants to be. This, however, is still lacking clearance AND it tips it forward just enough to where I end up pushed against the poleys. Annoying.

I do get a free adjustment, but am wondering if it is worth the bother. If it really belongs up further it will take a breast collar to keep it there. Which is fine, unless that is going to irritate my horse. Judging by the pics of the horse in this new set of photos, any opinions on a decent saddle? Bob Marshall? Or give this one more try? AUGH!

..now see, in those pictures, the saddle looks WAAAAY better in where it is placed. I would NEVER call that way too far back, that looks just about right. Also, them saying the girth should be a finger behind the front leg or whatever seems kinda odd to me, as all horses have a different natural girth groove, where a girth will naturally settle into. The girth shouldn't be in the exact same place on every horse.

It also looks to fit SLIGHTLY better when it's moved back, but still kinda precarious. I'd still say it is too wide.

Also, if it means anything, I own an aussie as well, and had some fit issues when I first got it. I sent some emails with photos to Smith-Worthington, a nationally-renowed saddle company that does repairs and tree adjustments on basically anything that CAN be adjusted (although they do work mainly on english saddles, they will do aussies too though :) ), and they told me point blank 99% of my fit issues were caused by the saddle being up way too far. I slid it back, and voila, it fit. :lol:

If I were you, I'd back away from Down Under, as they seem to be giving not so great advice. If you really like the saddle, send it to a saddler and have the tree narrowed. Most good saddlers should be able to do that for you, and for decent price. Otherwise.. cut your losses and move on, I guess. :(

In either case, let me find a photo of my aussie on my girl's back, in the placement that I found worked best. :)

[sublimequine]

Here's my aussie, and my obese middle of winter mare's gut :lol: :

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9723/joyaussiesaddlelw1.jpg

You can see she has plenty of wither clearance, and she's got probably 3 fingers or so from the leg to the girth. I want to say I scooted the saddle even a little further back after this picture (this was shortly after I bought the saddle almost a year ago), but I can't honestly remember. Now I just put it on her back, wiggle it a bit until it hits the spot it wants to be in, and go. :)

[cloudy18]

Thank you. I always rode her old one back like that, bc that is where it settles. And it fit fine except left little dry spots on each shoulder, it was very tight. This one is not tight, but sits too low. AUGH!!! Is there a happy medium? I am thinking of sending it back and losing some money on it (bc they will take off some bc the cinch is now dirty and there are some wear marks from the leathers) and trying something else. Otherwise I am going to lose money anyway, bc if I have it sitting back it is too small for me and I will have to exchange it AND have them mess with the tree on another one. I think I am getting an ulcer over this. I am willing to try anything, I thought about a Wintec 2000 with adjustable gullet, flex trees, no trees, I bought a bareback pad for in the meantime, and it works but not very secure, and that thing even likes to slide back, but at least it doesn't bother her. The summer is gone and still no saddle...

[katarine]

Cloud, they don't know their fanny from a hole in the ground if they think that second set of pics shows a saddle sitting too far back. No Flipping Way. It looks like it's sitting where it belongs. No girth rests that close to the horse's elbow...I always expect/hunt for a hand's width betwixt elbow and girth. No your fatty bay horse LOL, sure, it's going to slide forward some but 1" from the elbow? Nahh. Bad information.

Saddles can be adjusted/reflocked/padded to fit better, and frankly it doesn't look TOO bad in the second set to me, but I'm western, so take care with how much that opinion is really worth. Shims and padding can help a too wide, nothing helps too narrow except the classifieds and craigslist.

I'll be curious to hear other's opines on the second set of pics. And BTW Gallopin Grape, it's Katarine, and it's ok that you misread me. I was giggling at your post, I was like, uh, nope, you read that inside out :D

[sublimequine]

Thank you. I always rode her old one back like that, bc that is where it settles. And it fit fine except left little dry spots on each shoulder, it was very tight. This one is not tight, but sits too low. AUGH!!! Is there a happy medium? I am thinking of sending it back and losing some money on it (bc they will take off some bc the cinch is now dirty and there are some wear marks from the leathers) and trying something else. Otherwise I am going to lose money anyway, bc if I have it sitting back it is too small for me and I will have to exchange it AND have them mess with the tree on another one. I think I am getting an ulcer over this. I am willing to try anything, I thought about a Wintec 2000 with adjustable gullet, flex trees, no trees, I bought a bareback pad for in the meantime, and it works but not very secure, and that thing even likes to slide back, but at least it doesn't bother her. The summer is gone and still no saddle...

I hear ya, sister. Don't give up! I went through saddle hell before finding my english and my aussie that miraculously both fit. And if it makes ya feel better, I tried a Wintec with the gullet system, and whole it's a lovely saddle, doesn't fit my mare. Not even CLOSE. I do like Wintecs, but I think they overestimate the gullet system. If the tree doesn't fit the horse, it doesn't matter what gullet it has. That's what I had a problem with. Tree was too narrow, gullet made no difference.

[cloudy18]

Sigh. Methinks it's going back. I am not going to mess with shims/padding on a new saddle that I had made according to wither tracings. That's just not right. I will just tell them she hates it for some reason. I also tried a used Aust Stock Saddle Co that was at a local tack store and I loved it, but it was snug in her shoulders. It was a steal too!

Oh, the other thing I noticed with it sitting low is that up near the pommel the non-padded part of the tree is close to sitting on her, and this will only get worse I suppose. A thicker pad helped, but that also only tightens up the shoulders again.

I may have to go give another look at the Flex tree that was a possibility a year ago, except I was hesitant of the $750 price tag. Funny how that seems reasonable now. Although I am not a Western fan any more, I liked the comfort of the Aussies, esp. the flexible stirrup leathers.

[GallopingGrape]

The saddle looks beautiful in the second set of pictures, although still not enough wither clearance.... I'm sorry... Saddle fitting is an art. Remember the good ol days when we were kids and we'd toss just about anything on our stoic mounts and ride into the sunset? Poor horses... lucky for them now, we all spend hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars on the perfect fit. Do you have a saddle shop nearby that can help you with fitting? We encourage our customers to bring their horses to the shop. I'll put every saddle in the shop on them until we find the one that fits, or if you live by, I'll come out and do the fitting for you at your farm.
Good luck to you!

[cloudy18]

I have a couple saddle shops in driving distance, three actually. Only one knows more than I do, which isn't saying I know tons, it's just that the other two seem to have basic knowledge and that's it. The saddle below is at the one closest to me. Any opinions?

http://www.bluehillsequestrian.com/Consignment_Saddles3.htm

Not sure if it would fit either of us. Also less structure for me to stick in the saddle, but I think I'd be fine. I'm not totally inept.

[GallopingGrape]

Cloudy, I'm not sure on the fit, but the Thornhill Endurance saddle is an EXCELLENT choice. Thornhill makes great quality saddles. I've riden in this saddle and it is very comfortable... and you still have lots of close contact to get that security that you are looking for!

[cloudy18]

Well that's good news. Now I am SURE it won't fit.;) The seat looks nice and deep, and I see D rings to tie things to. I should go check it out today. I am so stupid to even get excited any more.

[craz4crtrs]

I have a couple saddle shops in driving distance, three actually. Only one knows more than I do, which isn't saying I know tons, it's just that the other two seem to have basic knowledge and that's it. The saddle below is at the one closest to me. Any opinions?

http://www.bluehillsequestrian.com/Consignment_Saddles3.htm

Not sure if it would fit either of us. Also less structure for me to stick in the saddle, but I think I'd be fine. I'm not totally inept.

Thornhills are good saddles. I browsed through the other consignments saddles, too. If I were you, I would sit on everything in the store that interests you. Those two aussie saddles and several western saddles need to be looked over.

Do you have your wither tracings to take with you? You can trace it onto cardboard and place it up into the gullet of the saddles and check for a ball park fit. :yes: Can you take your horse with you? I took my fjordX to a saddle shop and we tried on lots of saddles on him. The ones that fit were more expensive than the custom one I ordered. :cool:

I really wanted an aussie saddle and tried a couple. I either couldn't get one to fit my horse or I felt trapped in it.

I have a Duett Largo dressage saddle, and last year got my dream western saddle. A partial roughout/tooled saddle from Paul's in Texas. Love it. Talk about secure. I have several saddles that fit all my horses, but it has been a lot of trial and error.

Good luck.

[GallopingGrape]

If it helps, the Thornhill seems to be "more forgiving" and fits a wider variety of horses...

[cloudy18]

craz, I did try the one Aussie they have, I loved it, it was tight on my mare's shoulders. Too bad bc it's an Aust Stock Saddle Co for $475!!! I can bring her, it might be easier than dragging each saddle home. I bought a saddle from them when I first got her, a cheap western, but it's way snug and bridges. Maybe I can just ride in the bareback pad and something some day will show up that works. There is a guy in our riding club that has a BM trail saddle with horn. I would get an endurance model if I went that route, but would it be worth it to try his and see, or are the models not too comparable?

[craz4crtrs]

I don't know anything about a Bob Marshall, I've seen them, and what I saw was not a lot of wither clearance. Can't hurt to try one, it is an adventure saddle shopping.

[gabz]

How far are you from East Troy, Wisconsin (it's on the east side of the state) There is an EXCELLENT saddle fitter there.

What I see is a mare with a sway back. She has developed a dip in her back, most likely from being pinched in the shoulders by poor saddle fit.
She needs to be exercised and conditioned to bring her back muscles back up. THe saddle is supposed to rest on the muscles that run on either side of her spine. The Aussie seems to be resting on her shoulders/ just behind her shoulders, and on the mare's back, at the back of the saddle.

I suspect that unless you get a saddle with really high pommel with really great flair to the front of the tree, you may not be able to fit her properly enough to help her build her back muscles. (See below on adding navajo pad) You might also consider a gaited horse saddle - they provide the space for "head nod" and the flare to the front of the saddle tree for the long reach of the front legs.

What you CAN do, is get a saddle that is very close to perfect, and then take a THIN western navajo pad, fold it in half and lay it in the middle of her back, with the fold to the front, over the bottom pad. This brings her back to a more level build which can support the saddle while she builds her muscles.
Backing her up small slopes (with or without riding); trotting over cavaletti or ground poles; hind end scrunches; and carrot reaches (she has to reach between her front feet, keeping her hind feet on the ground, to get the carrot). Belly lifts help the back muscles too.

So far as placement on the horse. I think somewhere between your first trial and the second trial would be good. Putting something in the "sway" / dip in her back, is what will help the most.

I don't believe a treeless/ Bob Marshall will be the best for this mare at this time.

[cloudy18]

Thank you very much, gabz. I found the link to that saddle shop I think, I one of my many searches, but I live on the western side of the state. Grrrr. The owner of the tack shop near me has a swayback I can borrow to try out with saddles. I agree, I need flare for her shoulders, yet something for the bridge. That is why I went away from Western. The serge panels of the Aussie seem to fit in the middle bc she had sweat marks, but I think it will be a pain to keep in the right spot, plus everyone agrees there is not enough clearance, especially if those panels squish down. But I may try some Westerns out with the swayback, or the navajo pad. Maybe a flex tree will fit better? I also considered a gaited, there is only one near me and it's a 16 in, but I could try it for fit. The only problem is finding time to do all this, these three shops near me are all in different directions. One at a time. My cheap Aussie would have been fine if it had flare. (Anyone seen Office Space?:lol:)

[gabz]

In addition to the "flare" you need a tree that has the correct "rock" - that is, the front to back 'dip'. If West20 in East Troy is too far, you CAN take photos - and email them to Julie. Call first to establish contact with her. She will tell you exactly what photos - but if you take some good side ones, like you have (both sides) and then stand on a bale of hay behind the horse and take a photo of her down her back, including her butt and neck.

Julie has done thermo imaging on horses for years and years and can, most of the time, equate what she sees on a horse to what she has learned through experience. She also has the ability to place her hands on the horse's back to feel for "knots" and uneveness in muscling. Her knowledge of so many brands and makes of saddles is incredible. She carries dozens of brands of saddles.

I don't know what tree Circle Y is currently using - but I can tell you do NOT get one. It's like an inverted V with no flare and no rock at all. Saddles with the Steele Equi-fit tree have the flare and rock you need. There are many saddle companies that use the Steele tree. Equi-fit not flex. National Bridle Co, Fabtron uses it in SOME saddles, Crates, Tennesean, and others. So you have the choice of western or endurance and some "in between" Aussie-like. You can also add bucking rolls to the pommel area of many saddles.

You will, in my opinion, still need to level her back with pads or shims until she rebuilds that muscle. As she does that, her belly will tighten up as well. That's why you need to use a somewhat temporary fix to your saddle situation until her back remodels itself.
(this is a situation I'm familiar with with my QH who was pinched for several years - once we quit pinching him, he could bring his head down enough to balance and use his hind end better) AND, I went with a $500 partial synthetic while I work with a fat, out of shape, MFT. Hopefully in a year, he'll have changed shape into something more athletic and I can spend the $$$ on a diff saddle.

For exercises for your horse: search for KBR (Kickin' Back Ranch) - they have extensive articles and info on their site.

Good Luck. I think that that Aussie you have MIGHT work - but I'm not an expert.. .just enough knowledge to make me crazy. !! :lol:

P.S. I don't know when the Wisconsin - Mid-west Horse Expo is... I think it's held in Madison? Julie will be there. If it is like Michigan when she comes here, she takes appointments for people to bring their horse to the expo for fitting too. I know that's still a drive. People have driven from the east side of Michigan (Detroit) to her place in East Troy for fittings!!

[cloudy18]

Thanks for the info. I think I will call or email her for advice. Anyone know anyhting about this person, who is closer to me?

http://www.fortheequine.com/