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chukkerchild
Aug. 20, 2008, 12:37 AM
Does anyone know if the equestrian portion of the pentathlon will be televised at any point?

copper1
Aug. 20, 2008, 07:05 AM
Hope you have high speed internet since none of the men's MP will be telvised but I think some of the women's will be. I get so confused on days with the time difference but I think it starts today(eastern time)

mjedge808
Aug. 20, 2008, 10:36 AM
Hope you have high speed internet since none of the men's MP will be telvised but I think some of the women's will be. I get so confused on days with the time difference but I think it starts today(eastern time)

It should be online early tomorrow morning (thursday) starting 5 am Eastern.

if you catch it, look for Sam Sacksen! He's one of two US men competing in MP, and he's a Pony Clubber from Somerset Pa. We rode together in PC and he's a great competitor, did the USPC's Tetrathlon rallies for years! GO SAM! :)

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2008, 12:09 PM
I would be interested to see if the riding has improved from what I saw in Atlanta. I was horrified to say the least watching it then.

La Gringa
Aug. 20, 2008, 01:26 PM
Is it only available online? It's a shame they don't show more of this event, all aspects of Pentathalon.. I think it's so cool.

poltroon
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:14 PM
The pentathalon riding is usually terrible. And makes me wish my mare were so forgiving.

So they must have a venue in Beijing for it?

FAW
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:18 PM
Riding is horrible for a Olympic competition. I've seen better riding in the Long Stirrups. Half the riders are terrified.

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:40 PM
So they must have a venue in Beijing for it?

I was wondering about this too...

JER
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
According to the CBC website, it's scheduled for the OSC Stadium. The OSC Stadium is the at Olympic Sports Center and some preliminary football matches were held there.

Some photos and info here (http://en.beijing2008.cn/venues/oss/).

The MP riding phase tends to be a hoot. If only I didn't feel so bad for the horses.

copper1
Aug. 20, 2008, 06:19 PM
MP is held in Bejing though the Americans trained in Singapore untill just a few days ago.

chukkerchild
Aug. 20, 2008, 07:00 PM
Thanks! How do you watch stuff online? Is there a site?

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:54 PM
In Atlanta, the horses were used again and again. Riders warming up on them, jumping the course, handing off to the next rider that pulled that horse - like a bucking rodeo horse, only each rider got to have time getting used to them. In the heat, it was terrible. I was so angry. Most of those horses had 3 or 4 (BAD) riders. PETA spends time trying to get the Eventers, but where in the heck were they on Pentathalon day?!?!?

Foxtrot's
Aug. 20, 2008, 11:09 PM
20 minutes warm-up, five practice jumps, and used twice on each day over a 4' course with a triple and a combination. The same height as the 3-day eventers negotiated in Hong Kong. That's normal.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 20, 2008, 11:39 PM
In Atlanta, one horse was used 4 times, and quite a few others were used 3 in the middle of a 95 degree day (I believe it started around 3PM). The riding part of the Pentathalon took less than 2 hours, so basically those horses were being ridden and jumped for 1 1/2 to 2 hours straight in that heat.

It was really sad to watch. Almost all of the rounds had 4, 5, 6+ refusals, falls, and poles EVERYWHERE. Even sadder was that the spectators were not horse people at all. "He got the bad horse" was the general statement every time a horse stopped, or pulled a pole. The crowd believed every fault was due to the horse, not the rider at all. Riders flopping on their backs, jerking them in the mouth over each jump, using the reins for balance, etc.

I walked out of there never wanting to hear the word Pentathalon again, and I am still angry when I think about it.

In Atlanta, the horse part and the running was at the horse park in Conyers. Swimming was in Atlanta.

msrobin
Aug. 21, 2008, 12:19 AM
You would think when you have someone competing in a sport that they actually know how to do it. Those people are NOT olympians because they cannot do the sport they are there to do. Watching them makes me sick. Worse part is one of them will get a medal and for what? Definately not horse back riding.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 21, 2008, 12:58 AM
In Atlanta, one horse was used 4 times, and quite a few others were used 3 in the middle of a 95 degree day (I believe it started around 3PM). The riding part of the Pentathalon took less than 2 hours, so basically those horses were being ridden and jumped for 1 1/2 to 2 hours straight in that heat.

It was really sad to watch. Almost all of the rounds had 4, 5, 6+ refusals, falls, and poles EVERYWHERE. Even sadder was that the spectators were not horse people at all. "He got the bad horse" was the general statement every time a horse stopped, or pulled a pole. The crowd believed every fault was due to the horse, not the rider at all. Riders flopping on their backs, jerking them in the mouth over each jump, using the reins for balance, etc.

I walked out of there never wanting to hear the word Pentathalon again, and I am still angry when I think about it.

In Atlanta, the horse part and the running was at the horse park in Conyers. Swimming was in Atlanta.

I remember that. It looked like the people had never sat on a horse before.

PaddyUK
Aug. 21, 2008, 07:12 AM
I'm watching it now on the Beeb.

Utterly appalling riding.

I can only say, that if one rode like that in an SJ comp here in the UK, you would be stopped.

The USA and British riders were ok.

Some of the others just horrific.

I thought at first that some of the horses were just being naughty, but having seen the endless mouth yanking and spur stabbing.

Well.

Speechless really.

Paddy

copper1
Aug. 21, 2008, 07:15 AM
Sam Sacksen had a clear round and I JUST missed it!!!!!!

Minaret
Aug. 21, 2008, 07:21 AM
Reading this was enough for me:

1020: Little by little, information is dribbling through. Apparently, modern pentathlon competitors have to pick their horses at random, hence lots of fallers, some fences being completely destroyed - and audible gasps of horror from the crowd. It's brutal, but weirdly gripping.

1016: Is this normal? There's another faller in the modern pentathlon show-jumping. The course is like a mud-bath and some of these riders look like they've never seen a horse before, let alone ridden one. I'm looking for a modern pentathlon expert in the office... I may be some time.

1009: "Watch the modern pentathlon. The first competitor has not managed to jump a single fence! The second one has fallen off!"
Beth in London, via text on 81111
Just turned over to see a replay of the faller. Brutal.

Mel0309
Aug. 21, 2008, 01:45 PM
It should be online early tomorrow morning (thursday) starting 5 am Eastern.

if you catch it, look for Sam Sacksen! He's one of two US men competing in MP, and he's a Pony Clubber from Somerset Pa. We rode together in PC and he's a great competitor, did the USPC's Tetrathlon rallies for years! GO SAM! :)


Sam Sacksen had a clear round and I JUST missed it!!!!!!

He came down here to train with a trainer friend of mine before he left - Henrietta (Borst) Eppenauer (orig. from the Netherlands). So now she is listed as an Olympic trainer ;) on his profile

http://pentathlon.teamusa.org/athlete/athlete/1973

caffeinated
Aug. 21, 2008, 02:16 PM
What the heck happened to the French guy? On the NBC site there were pictures of him with a bloody face... I can't even remember the last time I saw blood in a show jumping competition...

*jumper*
Aug. 21, 2008, 08:49 PM
Just frightening....
http://www.nbcolympics.com/modernpentathlon/photos/galleryid=243245.html

I'd also like to know how the heck that happened. Don't look at the pictures if you're squeamish!

bird4416
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:06 PM
Most of these horses look like they haven't been off the track too long. Man, this is some horrid riding. Where is George Morris?

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:10 PM
Those photos and others really tell the story of the riding part of the Pentathalon. Totally disgusting. A couple more in this set. http://www.nbcolympics.com/modernpentathlon/photos/galleryid=114992.html

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:14 PM
Most of these horses look like they haven't been off the track too long. Man, this is some horrid riding. Where is George Morris?

I have been under the understanding that they use older, pretty solid packer type horses. These bad fences are all becaiuse of the poor riding, not bad or untrained horses.

Melissa.Van Doren
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:16 PM
The Frenchman's horse took the back rail of an oxer down and then tripped on it and somersaulted. Rider was thrown clear, but then the horse rolled onto him as it got up. Kicked him in the face with a hind foot. He remounted so his points would count, but did not finish the course.

What a spectacle. While some of the riders were obviously well-schooled and had normal problems riding an unfamiliar horse over a course in such an atmosphere, many others were simply in WAY over their heads. Rough, rough, rough... some by accident, some on purpose. Hard to believe it's condoned, much less revered as a "sport". :cry:

Shameful.

joiedevie99
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:17 PM
That is some of the worst riding I have ever seen. I would trust our short stirrup kids to do better than that. They have atleast mastered the concept of a release.

How many of them fell off? I saw a few disastrous rounds and couldn't watch anymore. There seem to be atleast 4 or 5 different falling action shots - and a few that appear muddy in other pictures.


ETA: I don't mean to condemn them all. I did see some good rides, especially in an IHSA type horse draw situation.

bird4416
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:25 PM
I have been under the understanding that they use older, pretty solid packer type horses. These bad fences are all becaiuse of the poor riding, not bad or untrained horses.

That's what I thought, but most of the horses don't look like packers. I've only seen a few that looked like packers. The rest look like they just learned their job.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:41 PM
At that height, the horses need a bit of help. They can't jump big fences if the riders have no business doing anything more than up-down lessons. This is definitely a sport that needs to be removed from the Olympics before we see a rider become paralyzed or dies. Where is PETA when they could actually do some good? These poor horses are trying to do their job, but no possible way when the riders are so off balance.

If the Pentathalon is left in as a sport, it needs to be over 2' jumps. Or then need to qualify in riding by placing top 25% in 3 classes at real riding shows - like Level ?? jumpers.

bird4416
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:52 PM
How about just having the modern quadathalon; leave the riding out. It just seems much more humane to humans and especially the horses. I saw one horse slam on brakes at the wall with too much momentum to fully stop. He crashed the wall and managed to kick a hind leg into the wall where it went through the wood. He almost fell on top of the rider. The horse shook loose from the wall and ran off lame on that leg. Someone caught him, brought him back to the rider who mounted up. No one checked his leg at all. Thankfully, the rider retired. Hopefully, they didn't make the horse carry anyone else around the course.

chukkerchild
Aug. 21, 2008, 09:52 PM
So I missed it? Darn! Could anyone tell me the site I could watch the women's on? Is there like a live streaming site? I tried looking on cbc.ca but no luck... those pictures were GORY. "Loses points for hitting an obstacle"-- the horse was crashing right through it! Those fences are higher than I thought, what are they, three nine? I expected them to be about three three ish.

Siswai
Aug. 21, 2008, 10:10 PM
Just the fact that, while taking down a rail costs 28 points, falling off only costs 40 points, really says something about the expectations of the pentathletes' riding abilities!:eek:

What I don't get is, these are athletes training for an Olympic sport, so why don't many of them make more of an effort to learn how to jump properly?:confused: It seems like many of them don't take it that seriously, and just expect to be able to muscle around the course like some kind of chest-thumping gladiator:rolleyes:

And I agree, that there is NO WAY that this abuse of horses should be allowed. If the riding part is to stay, then they NEED to have strict standards for quality of riding and acceptable treatment of the horse. It seems like these horses are just considered to be tools in this competition, just like their guns or rapiers. :mad:

joiedevie99
Aug. 21, 2008, 10:19 PM
Anyone know who did the live commentary that is being displayed on the video? The person keeps stating that it is the organizers fault and I would really love to explain to this person what is actually going on.

eponacowgirl
Aug. 21, 2008, 11:19 PM
I really think dressage would be a great replacement for show jumping 4' in this particular sport. Or a classy hunter round over... oh, 2'6".

WTF? 4'? I mean, I would bet that half the people on this board don't and have no desire to jump 4'.

belambi
Aug. 21, 2008, 11:58 PM
shocked to see the grey,,a succesful Australian race horse, obviously sold to china at some stage. (I just confirmed by looking up his brand in the stud book.)

JER
Aug. 22, 2008, 01:19 AM
"Horses not to blame for show jumping fiasco, says pentathlon chief" (http://www.foxsports.com.au/beijing_olympics/story/0,27313,24222983-5016792,00.html), (Fox Sports Australia)


Klaus Schormann, the president of the UIPM (International Modern Pentathlon Union) said the persistent rain had made the going at the Olympic Sports Centre course "very, very heavy" and it was that, together with a lack of riding skill, which caused problems.

But he also said the height of the fences for today's women's competition might be lowered if the weather didn't improve.

I didn't get to watch the fiasco but I did a search for news photos (http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news;_ylt=A9j8eu8TTK5IfhYAkxLRtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBhNj RqazhxBHNlYwNzZWFyY2g-?p=modern+pentathlon+riding&c=images&x=wrt) and -- well, just see for yourself.

I think the MP federation needs to sit down with some sane and reasonable equine welfare people.

mbhorse
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:15 AM
OMG :mad::eek::mad::eek::confused: I found myself yelling for the horses to dump most of those MFers so hard that they'd never be able to ride again :mad:

poltroon
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:28 AM
I have been under the understanding that they use older, pretty solid packer type horses. These bad fences are all becaiuse of the poor riding, not bad or untrained horses.

One might ask where exactly China would find thirty or so 4' packers for such a competition.

belambi
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:31 AM
Is the surface holding up ok to the rain?

poltroon
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:40 AM
I expect that they did not spend as much money on the pentathalon footing as they did at Hong Kong.

belambi
Aug. 22, 2008, 07:26 AM
the USA woman is a vey interesting one.. She WON the riding leg, Broke a record and WON in the swimming leg, was totally LAST in the fencing and 28 in the shooting. This gives her a handicap of -2.05 mins going into the run.

the UK womn in second place at the moment is the most average..ie consistently in the top 10 in each discipline and so that gives her a second place overall. really interesting competition..

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 22, 2008, 07:39 AM
Is there a video of the riding on the NBC website? I can't seem to find it. The photos are pretty horrific. It's like they expect to fall off a few times during the round. I saw a tetrathelon once at PC Championships and even that was better than this!

bird4416
Aug. 22, 2008, 07:56 AM
Here are some photos of the women riding. There is a big difference between the women and the men's riding skills. These pictures don't look too bad. http://www.nbcolympics.com/modernpentathlon/photos/galleryid=247332.html

bird4416
Aug. 22, 2008, 07:58 AM
Here is a link to the mens riding and running.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=pnth-bj-sd09-082108-164024&channelcode=sportmp

Melissa.Van Doren
Aug. 22, 2008, 08:32 AM
Had to add to my previous post by noting USA's Sam Sacksen was someone who stood out in a positive way. He rode well, although he had a stop and a rail, and was the only rider who took a moment to run up his stirrup before leaving his horse with the groom. Pony Club must be proud!

eponacowgirl
Aug. 22, 2008, 09:28 AM
You know, at least all these horses are in snaffles and not some crazy gag combo leverage bits. Makes the yanking and pulling and grabbing a tiny iota more tolerable.

fordtraktor
Aug. 22, 2008, 11:01 AM
How about just having the modern quadathalon; leave the riding out. It just seems much more humane to humans and especially the horses. I saw one horse slam on brakes at the wall with too much momentum to fully stop. He crashed the wall and managed to kick a hind leg into the wall where it went through the wood. He almost fell on top of the rider. The horse shook loose from the wall and ran off lame on that leg. Someone caught him, brought him back to the rider who mounted up. No one checked his leg at all. Thankfully, the rider retired. Hopefully, they didn't make the horse carry anyone else around the course.

I saw this one too. I think they have to get back on or are DQ'ed, but I was so relieved when he retired. The horse was off and for a second it looked like they might go on. However, to his credit he did pat it a lot -- at least it looked like he knew it was lame and quit for that reason.

Can't believe they let the guy that got kicked in the face go on. I can only imagine the head injury he could have. To do a hard run after that is pure madness.

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 22, 2008, 11:07 AM
The footing conditions look terrible... and the riding was flat out scary. The course design wasn't so hot either. Most of the horses were really struggling to get over the jumps (can't blame them). I'm tempted to write a letter to the Olympics complaining that this was absolutly not fair for the horses... borderline cruel. A grey horse took several visably lame steps after his rider crashed him through the umpteenth jump... At the very least, make the jumps lower... 3' still seems too high, but at least most horses are able to get over it, regardless of the rider. A few of the horses were pretty cute and looked like they were probably pretty good jumpers... I only saw a handful of riders pat their horse after they were done :(

CrowneDragon
Aug. 22, 2008, 11:50 AM
WTF is going on here? I had never heard of the pentathalon until I came upon this thread. I watched a handful of rides and could take no more. The horse of Amelie Caze finished their round completely non-weightbearing on a hind leg, his rider looked clueless as to their being a problem despite the gasps from the audience, and she proceeded to ride to the edge of the ring to dismount and smile and wave to her supporters, all the while no one seemed to be attending to the horses problem. I have no idea if the horse was used again.
Disgusting.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 22, 2008, 12:45 PM
Are there any riding schools in China? From what I understand in previous Olympics, horses were loaned for the Pentathlon from private owners. I guess it is prestigious to have your horse compete.

Every 4 years since Atlanta, I have tried to convince others at how bad the riding is, but I have been met with many people that say what a wonderful sport it is. I am glad finally with this coverage, people can see for themselves just how awful it is.

Where is PETA when they could do some good?

Moesha
Aug. 22, 2008, 12:50 PM
Wow that is so sad to hear about the riding....in pony club I had a few friends who were focusing on this and they rode great. I have always thought it was so interesting and fascinating, I hope the horses were ok :( and that things improve, it really is a true athletic test from an ideological standpoint..but it sounds as if the practice part, especially horses needs a lot of standardization...maybe even qualification procedures??

JER
Aug. 22, 2008, 12:58 PM
Are there any riding schools in China?

Yes. Over the last few years, riding has become sort of a hip thing to do, at least in the Beijing area and there are a number of riding clubs on the outskirts of the city.

I've visited several of them and some of them are very nice facilities. The horses looked like mostly OTTBs. I know the HKJC hires riders from the UK to reschool the horses that are headed for riding schools, I assume this is also the case on mainland.

I did notice one of the Chinese MP riders had a clear round and looked ok in photos. I don't know who the Chinese MPer was at Athens but it was clear she couldn't ride -- the horse finally bucked and sent her flying. I take the clear round as a sign of improvement in the national program.

I do think the welfare issue is a serious one. I'd also like to see riding stay in this event as the MP phases make up an interesting skill set. There's no reason why these people can't become competent riders -- how about even 1 lesson a week?

The women looked a lot better than the men. Hopefully, the men will realize there's a lot at stake in the riding phase and get their skills up to par.

TBKate
Aug. 22, 2008, 01:03 PM
Are there any riding schools in China? From what I understand in previous Olympics, horses were loaned for the Pentathlon from private owners. I guess it is prestigious to have your horse compete.

The horses for these Olympics were purchased from Australia after the Sydney games. (I believe they were showjumpers) My question is what will happen to those *saints* now that MP is over. :( I told Sam to stuff a couple in his suitcase to bring back to me, but apparently it's hard enough to get the air pistol through security. :lol:

LoriW
Aug. 22, 2008, 01:19 PM
I watched the first couple and that was it for me. Just shot off an email to Peta for them to look into this so called "sport." I don't always agree with them but I think in this case, they might be able to do some good.

bookwormdude
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'm a little shocked at this suggestion. Obviously things didn't go so well, and while I agree that the MP needs to reevaluate how the Pentathalon is structured and executed, you might want think twice before siccing PETA on this sport. It just might generate reprecussions you wouldn't want. Keep in mind that a.) most of bad riding being witnessed is from riders in foreign countries and b.) the American riders might not appreciate being lumped into such a broad category of "abusive riding and treatment of horses". All the American riders come from riding backgrounds, so they, at least deserve the benefit of the doubt. Much like IHSA, drawing a horse is not an easy thing to do, but the challenge of it is what makes it sport. I agree that there should be better qualifiers...and lowering the height to 3' sounds very reasonable.

Wasn't it the IMP president who said that the heavy rains had made the conditions difficult? At least from the website, it looks like the horses weren't used more than twice each day, which is better than what was said to have gone on in Atlanta.

It might be better as well to change the order of the events, putting riding first so that all the athletes are fresh. After fencing so many rounds and having just completed the swimming portion, even the best athletes have to be feeling tired. Along this same vein, due to how the sport is scored, the first two components are given more "heft" in building an athlete's score, which means they probably spend more time honing their marksmanship and fencing skills than they do their riding. A high initial score makes it easier to hold onto the top spot as the pentathalon progresses, in so much that it determines their "pole position" for the race at the end of the day. If riding was the first event, perhaps the athletes would be more concerned with putting in a good, clear round, rather than just trying to get through the course.

shawneeAcres
Aug. 22, 2008, 02:48 PM
All I was able to see were the few riders shwon by MSNBC. The american was pretty decent, I mean yes her release wasn't very good (almost non0existent), but she seemed to have enough skill to get around and go clear. Another rider (cannot remember which team) rode the same horse and had an awful round, basically kept pulling at the hrose unbtil there was NO distance for him to jump from. The german rider also not veyr good. I keep feeling like, if these riders would just LET the horses head go, stop trying to "hold them back" as the announcer kept saying they would have done a lot better. But overall the few riders I saw were better than I expected. I agree DON'T get PETA involved!!! Make complaints to the IOC if you must, but don't go there!!!!

Frank B
Aug. 22, 2008, 03:13 PM
...PETA spends time trying to get the Eventers, but where in the heck were they on Pentathalon day?!?!?
Elementary, my Dear Watson! The Pentathalon has very limited media coverage. Hence, no PETA.

HorseSoGreen
Aug. 22, 2008, 03:25 PM
I'm with LoriW on this one. This is abusive and horrific. Every one of us in the horse community should get this stopped. What I saw was reminiscent of the atmosphere of a bullfight! I'm emailing PETA, the IOC, and anyone else I can think of. This kind of stuff is what makes us all look bad.

poltroon
Aug. 22, 2008, 04:17 PM
Please don't email PETA. I think it's unlikely that they can tell the difference between the pentathalon show jumping and the equestrian show jumping. There are more constructive ways to make your thoughts known. For one thing, why not write the various pentathalon governing bodies directly?

JER
Aug. 22, 2008, 04:59 PM
Simon Barnes (great sportswriter for the Times and a horseperson) wrote about MP today in his column (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/olympics/article4591011.ece):


It begins with a vicious spit of gunfire and it ends 12 hours later in a howl of exhaustion. Some people think that the modern pentathlon should be kicked out of the Olympic Games because it is completely mad. For exactly that reason, it should always remain.

Barnes reports that the horses come with crib notes -- one is described as 'lazy' with whip/spurs recommended, another is 'normal'.

bookwormdude
Aug. 22, 2008, 05:17 PM
Please don't email PETA. I think it's unlikely that they can tell the difference between the pentathalon show jumping and the equestrian show jumping. There are more constructive ways to make your thoughts known. For one thing, why not write the various pentathalon governing bodies directly?


...or eventing, fox hunting, steeplechase, polo, flat racing, etc, etc...

I agree that the MP governing body needs to address several issues, but I find it hypocritical when there has been such a recent uproar over eventing that others are saying to shut a different sport down. Any equestrian sport can be done incorrectly and unsafely, including all the ones listed above. When put on public display, a sport is under close scrutiny that more often than not reveals the flaws that might otherwise go unnoticed. I highly doubt that MP events conducted in the USA go the way they went in Beijing. And again, how about a little support for our American competitors, who near as I could tell were trying their very best. And let's be honest...you are apt to see the same bad riding at any h/j or eventing competition...I know I have. There are always those who try to compete above their ability. As has been suggested for Eventing, how do we effect change to make the sport safer for horse and rider?

Kat_Renee
Aug. 22, 2008, 05:37 PM
Nam Dong-Hong for Korea should have been DSQ for beating the horse when it was HIS fault the horse couldn't jump.

Uk. this is making me so mad and i just need to stop watching... I wishing horrible hurts upon a lot of those people..

seeuatx
Aug. 22, 2008, 06:05 PM
Melissa- Sam is not only the product of Pony club (and he sure showed it by acting like a horseman... running up his stirrups and loosening his girth), but Rolling Rock. How cool is that.

And Henrietta Borst. Wow, Yett... I haven't heard that name in years. Go Yett.

Did anyone see the grey horse that went down after tripping through the triple? Chinese rider. Horse was 100% lame in it's right hind leg. He was refusing (duuhhh) because he couldn't push off. rider was beating it around. That round was thoroughly disgusting.

belambi
Aug. 22, 2008, 06:33 PM
http://www.bjreview.com.cn/quotes/txt/2007-10/10/content_79146.htm

"All the horses for the modern pentathlon at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games will be made-in-China," said Zhang Bin, Deputy Director of the Competition Office of the Modern Pentathlon World Cup Final, which was recently held in Beijing.

Differing from the full equestrian events, all the horses for the modern pentathlon at the Olympics are supposed to be supplied by the host country. However, the past Olympics have borrowed horses from abroad. This time they'll all be homegrown.

The modern pentathlon includes shooting, fencing, swimming, running and equestrian events. Riders pick their partner horses before the event by blind draw.

At the Modern Pentathlon World Cup Final, one of the "Good Luck Beijing" Olympic test events, all 25 horses came from China, among which 18 were used for the competition and seven as standbys. Having gone through strict screening and quarantine, the horses are also ready for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. Sources say that the Beijing Olympics will demand around 60 horses, both for competition and as standbys.

The yardstick for selecting Olympic horses lies in their competitive ability, rather than appearance, said Zhang. Entrusted by the Organizing Committee of Beijing Olympic Games, the China Equestrian Association and China Modern Pentathlon Association jointly invited a handful of experts to help with nationwide Olympic horse selection. The selection program began in 2005 and more than 120 horses from Beijing, Shanghai, Guangdong and Inner Mongolia passed the primary selection stage. One year later, the number of candidates shrank to 60. Three months ahead of the "Good Luck Beijing" test events, just 25 horses were selected to race.

From 2006 on, the committee began to manage a record of the selected 25 horses. The condition of the horses is inspected every three months by specialized evaluators. Only those that qualify after an assessment of injuries, resistance to epidemics and athletic capability, remain in the Olympic horse reserves. "All the horses have to go through quarantine in terms of national criteria and are then transported to Beijing for the match," said Xu Haifeng, Vice Director in charge of modern pentathlon with the Cycling and Fencing Administrative Center of the General Administration of Sport of China.

Success in equestrian events comes down to both horse riding skills and the quality of the horse. The competitor has only 20 minutes to acquaint himself with the picked horse, and thus the horses must receive special training so that they can do the best when partnered with anyone of the players.

The China Modern Pentathlon Association has hired a specialized horse trainer from Holland. His work is to guide several Chinese trainers through training the horses until the conclusion of the Beijing Olympics in August 2008.

English has become the language of communication with the horses for the trainers and they can often be heard saying words such as "come on" and "stop" to them.

Effective communication between trainers, players and horses has become a key link for the success of the competition. As well-bred horses with a track record of success are smart and familiar with both competition and people, they can even recognize the state of the players riding on their backs. If the player is nervous, the horse is likely to become disobedient. The trainer and the player keep constant communication with the horse through body contact and speaking. The trainer will also tap on the horse's neck as encouragement after completing each training program.

It usually takes two years to convert a horse into a qualified Olympian for the modern pentathlon. This batch of horses has to be strictly registered, with a complete record detailing their type, number, quarantine results and health conditions. Features of their appearance such as the color of hoof and coat are also recorded as a means of identification.

The match horses must reach the racecourse in advance of the competition to adapt themselves to the environment through a two-week pre-match training schedule. Every horse has a tailored training program.

Horses used to racing have to learn how to canter, a skill that requires endurance, rhythm and flexibility. The horses go through a compulsory daily lesson during which they canter around a 15 to 30 meter circle. This is the first step in fostering the flexibility and uniform speed the horses will need for the pentathlon.

Staff workers at the racecourse take care of these horses like children. The horses enjoy rolling in sand after a hard day of training and the staff has to clean it from their hair and hooves. Every detail of the horses is paid close attention.

The horses are so well looked after sometimes they seem to think they are the stars of the Olympic Games rather than the riders. During interviews with the press they are tame and understanding and even pose for the cameras.

Specialized volunteers for the equestrian events will be recruited from the national modern pentathlon team of China to ensure a good performance for the competitors. Their main work is to lead the horses, which is important for keeping them in a good mood. Employing professional competitors to lead the horses is not too much, said Xu, as this role is crucial to ensuring their good performance.

chukkerchild
Aug. 22, 2008, 07:34 PM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT EMAIL PETA. I would never have started this thread. I have zero respect for PETA considering its recent activities in my country... If you actually want to make a REAL difference, call the Modern Pentathlon board, anything. These horses are probably very well taken care of in between rounds, they looked healthy and honest, the problem is the riders and the questions the sport is asking of them-- four foot is far too much. PETA will see this as an opportunity to slam SJ, eventing, everything.

mbhorse
Aug. 22, 2008, 10:25 PM
Thank god they lowered the fence height and the women can ride better than the men. I SO want that horse LeLe. Really liked it the other day with the men, but loved it today with the women who could somewhat ride.

msrobin
Aug. 22, 2008, 11:55 PM
WTF is going on here? I had never heard of the pentathalon until I came upon this thread. I watched a handful of rides and could take no more. The horse of Amelie Caze finished their round completely non-weightbearing on a hind leg, his rider looked clueless as to their being a problem despite the gasps from the audience, and she proceeded to ride to the edge of the ring to dismount and smile and wave to her supporters, all the while no one seemed to be attending to the horses problem. I have no idea if the horse was used again.
Disgusting.

AFTER THAT HORSE HURT IT'S LEG THEY LET IT GO ANOTHER ROUND WITH THE MEXICAN RIDER SANCHEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM SO PISSED OFF BLESS THAT HORSE! I will be doing something about this. There is no excuse for this type of cruelty to continue. The pentathalon folks and who ever else gets added to the "to" section on my email.
The horses name was BeiBei
Poor girl.


Here is where you can complain to the pentathlon board. I sent them a letter already
http://www.pentathlon.org/index.php?id=23

Platinum Equestrian
Aug. 23, 2008, 12:34 AM
Well, I had a great laugh at several rider's unplanned dismounts.

The women look like they just fell off the turnip truck - shirts untucked, hair hanging out of hats, socks out of their boots. Scary.

The more I watched, the more I felt sorry for the horses. I'm the furthest thing from a "PETA person," but that is abuse. The horses don't look prepared to do the job being asked of them. Combined with those riders on them, it is a disaster. I'm not sure how that qualifies as an Olympic sport. Maybe they're good at the other phases, I'm not sure. I couldn't watch anymore. I'm wondering what happens to those horses after the Olympics are over?

I did contact the "sport's" Society by email.

I found it appropriate they came into the ring to circus music... and I had to laugh as the spectators would roar with laughter when a horse would stop.

JER
Aug. 23, 2008, 01:08 AM
The Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080822/SPORTS17/80822017/1048/sports) covered the MP, specifically to follow the progress of US competitor Sheila Taormina, who's competed at swimming and triathlon in other Olympics. Taormina never rode a horse before taking up MP 3 years ago.


....Sheila Taormina calls it “the most beautiful sport I’ve ever done. My favorite sport of all time: show-jumping.”

Sensible girl, she is. Taormina had one of three clear rounds and finished equal 1st in the riding phase.

piaffeprincess98
Aug. 23, 2008, 07:35 AM
Wow, thanks for the video link. I only watched a couple of rides. It was scary. The French guy on the bay actually made it around ok and had a few good fences. But I mean, he got a one stride in the two stride. No wonder fences are coming down, they don't take tugs in between the elements of a combination because they have no coordination or control!

caffeinated
Aug. 23, 2008, 09:06 PM
Just sitting down to watch some of this now... pretty appalling.

I think the horses are absolute saints to keep trying despite the riding... I dunno... if they're going to operate with a "draw" riders need to get better or the fence heights should come down. This is the most unfair thing to horses I've seen in a while.

Nikki^
Aug. 24, 2008, 07:02 PM
The women's was better then the men but not by much. I think the smartest rider was the guy from Spain. He finally listen to his horse after the 3rd refusal and dismissed himself. I think he was scared to death.

The best picture I have seen is the first one in the women's photos, the girl from China. Perfect form over the fence and what a nice release.

I think if they want to keep jumping lower the fences to 2'9 to 3 feet or as others have suggested, switch it to dressage.

The Russian rider, Ilya Frolv, had a death grip on his horse and the poor horse jumped like a deer over every fence.:no::cry:
The best rider so far is Andrejus fro LTU. He actually looked really good.

Now when people tell you that riding isn't hard and the horse does all the work, show them these videos. To me, with riding, you have to be 100% with your horse or it's not going to work.

lep
Aug. 24, 2008, 09:07 PM
The bay that crashed the brick wall put his hoof through it and got it stuck momentarily and went limping off. His rider got back on but then excused himself. I didn't watch to see if the poor horse went again later with someone else.

allanglos
Aug. 24, 2008, 11:48 PM
AFTER THAT HORSE HURT IT'S LEG THEY LET IT GO ANOTHER ROUND WITH THE MEXICAN RIDER SANCHEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM SO PISSED OFF BLESS THAT HORSE! I will be doing something about this. There is no excuse for this type of cruelty to continue. The pentathalon folks and who ever else gets added to the "to" section on my email.
The horses name was BeiBei
Poor girl.


Here is where you can complain to the pentathlon board. I sent them a letter already
http://www.pentathlon.org/index.php?id=23

Here is the link to the video that shows all 36 women competing over fences. The jumping starts at minute 20, if I remember.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=pnth-bj-sd09-082208-164020&channelcode=sportmp

It is simply a horrible video to watch. There are 12 horses. Each get ridden three times. The competition takes three hours, and these horses are going non-stop, as between riders, they are out in the warmup area with their next rider. After they compete, you can see how exhausted they are.

One horse leaves the last fence on three legs, and the rider is clueless.

Another horse packs around the terrible rider from Mexico (Sanchez). The rider finally falls off, and the commentator has the nerve to write that the horse is bad! I was furious.

I used to think MP was an interesting sport. Now, after seeing how terrible the riding is, and how poorly the horses are regarded, I want nothing to do with it.

xeroxchick
Aug. 25, 2008, 07:00 AM
People, PETA are not Animal Cops. They are an "animal rights" organization and clearly state that they do nothing for animal care. Publicity Wh@rs. In suits. Don't romanticize. You have just heard of them a lot, that's all, because that's what they do.

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 25, 2008, 09:19 AM
I agree, and unfortunately, that is why you will never see them doing something that could really help. Publicity means cash to them. $$$ is what PETA is all about.

Foxtrot's
Aug. 25, 2008, 11:36 AM
Sic them onto the horse people and no horse activity will be safe.

hunter-eventer-hunter
Aug. 25, 2008, 11:43 AM
If you call PETA, you won't be able to ride your horse either.
But, I got to admit; that those horses were game. Bad riding, heat, bad footing, and being tired; they just keep trying.

There were very few nasty ditches on the horse's part.

wnnahrse
Aug. 25, 2008, 09:41 PM
There are 12 horses. Each get ridden three times. The competition takes three hours, and these horses are going non-stop, as between riders, they are out in the warmup area with their next rider. After they compete, you can see how exhausted they are.
I totally agree and was going to point that out. If you can find and watch the men's competition you can see each horse's name is something like Chang chang, or Xiu xiu, and as they go through each competitors name you can see that the horses are ridden AT LEAST 3-4 times each.
The footing was abysmal, the humidity is shown to be 84% and the heat in the 70-80's.
The first horse comes out and it is already sweating.
After the debacle of the falls and injuries, they lowered the women's course to 2-3 feet.
I was reading some where that one female competitor had only started riding about a year or so ago...

Perhaps letters in the email in boxes of the IOC, FEI, and if there is an international committee or association for Modern Pentathalon, we should write them as well.

We can all sit here and gripe, write some emails, mail some letters.
Please.
Wnnahrse
(I do have 2 it is an old nickname I have had for a while)

spotted mustang
Aug. 25, 2008, 10:02 PM
I wonder: are these people as bad at their other disciplines as they are at riding? I mean, are there discussions on fencing or shooting boards about how they all poke each other in the eyes or shoot themselves in the foot?

msrobin
Aug. 25, 2008, 10:11 PM
I wonder: are these people as bad at their other disciplines as they are at riding? I mean, are there discussions on fencing or shooting boards about how they all poke each other in the eyes or shoot themselves in the foot?

THAT MADE ME SPIT MY DRINK OUT ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD! LOL LOL THAT WAS TOO FUNNY.

I haven't watched them in anything other than the last part of the running. Some appear to be in shape for that while most of them barely made it around. The fencing and shooting is just boring to me so I never watched it. Makes me wonder now though.

Foxtrot's
Aug. 25, 2008, 10:42 PM
Spotted Mustang and Ms Robin - what an unsporting pair you are.
Can you run, fence, swim, shoot and ride, too? Pretty narrow approach to sport in my book. Add a few smileys and it makes it humour?

FEIwannabe
Aug. 25, 2008, 10:50 PM
I wonder: are these people as bad at their other disciplines as they are at riding? I mean, are there discussions on fencing or shooting boards about how they all poke each other in the eyes or shoot themselves in the foot?
It doesn't matter how bad someone is at running, fencing, shooting (an air pistol at a target), or at swimming. At worst they'll sprain an ankle, loose their bout, miss their target or drown.
They won't make another life suffer.

bird4416
Aug. 26, 2008, 08:09 AM
I'm not trying to defend the riding, but all 5 of the events are done in one day. They have numerous fencing rounds plus the shooting and swimming before they ride. By the time they get to the horses, they are probably pretty tired. I think they should swap the equestrian phase with a biking phase. A nice mountain biking course should fit in quite nicely and they can abuse the bike all they want and no one will care.

spotted mustang
Aug. 26, 2008, 03:10 PM
Spotted Mustang and Ms Robin - what an unsporting pair you are.
Can you run, fence, swim, shoot and ride, too? Pretty narrow approach to sport in my book. Add a few smileys and it makes it humour?

hell, no, I can't. But I'm also not showing up at the olympics.
:)

Fairview Horse Center
Aug. 26, 2008, 03:42 PM
It is going to take more than a casual effort to learn be able to jump 4' on a strange horse. This should not be a competition about how stupid the person is. A smart person would not only say no, but H*LL NO!

The riding part of the Pentathalon is not only not fair to the horses, but the riders as well.

What other Olympic sport can someone from another country ruin your "equipment" and you still have to use it to compete. I can't see a gymnast having to compete on a broken balance beam, but the Pentathalon riders are expected to compete on horses that are now "quitters", or lame, expecting to get jerked in the mouth, and slammed in the back over a jump. Even if they were GOOD riders, the first to go would be schooling the horse over the jumps for the remaining riders.

That is just NOT a valid competition. It's a joke.

petitefilly
Aug. 26, 2008, 10:04 PM
Wow, now I've seen the most useless expenditure of time in the world of sport. Seriously, do these people practice before they ride the event? They all look like local schooling show riders. It is out of the horse's abilities too. Those horses are trying their hearts out, and getting no respect from the riders. It is sad. If the horse had any problems he was on his own. :( Whew, not going back to watch any more of that! Complete with racing horn before entering!

Totally uninformed audience watching anything put in front of them. <Arghhhh>

msrobin
Aug. 27, 2008, 11:55 AM
Spotted Mustang and Ms Robin - what an unsporting pair you are.
Can you run, fence, swim, shoot and ride, too? Pretty narrow approach to sport in my book. Add a few smileys and it makes it humour?



As a matter of fact I can. The only thing I haven't tried is fencing. However as with any sport if I choose it to be an event I want to compete at then I would get the best training possible for that event. I would never go into the olympics not knowing the discipline I am there for. Which is what these people have done. If you think for a second that the riding was fine then you do not know what your looking at.