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freestyle2music
Aug. 19, 2008, 08:59 PM
Today the manager of Anky Casuals announced that they have planned to open 40 shops in China the coming years. In these shops they will sell the complete line of Anky products.

ridgeback
Aug. 19, 2008, 09:02 PM
Great now the rumor will be she has employed small children in sweat shops to make her clothes..:lol:

Miss Dior
Aug. 19, 2008, 09:17 PM
Wow that is amazing!!!! They really are not very stylish however. Kyra K and Pikeur are much nicer. No one really buys Pikeur or Kyra K for the name. They buy them because of the quality and the style. But vive la difference.

freestyle2music
Aug. 19, 2008, 09:26 PM
Wow that is amazing!!!! They really are not very stylish however. Kyra K and Pikeur are much nicer. No one really buys Pikeur or Kyra K for the name. They buy them because of the quality and the style. But vive la difference.

You probably never saw the PK selection, imho opinion and (more important) my wifes opinion they are the best by far.


Theo

canyonoak
Aug. 19, 2008, 09:42 PM
what is "the PK selection"...??

Philippe Karl is designing clothes?

(just a joke, don't hit me)

freestyle2music
Aug. 19, 2008, 09:54 PM
what is "the PK selection"...??

Philippe Karl is designing clothes?

(just a joke, don't hit me)

The sponsor of my sister and her daughter, and a very exclusive company for horse and riders clothing.

Theo

dutchmike
Aug. 19, 2008, 10:07 PM
So slightly biased I would say;)

Pat
Aug. 19, 2008, 10:22 PM
First Wal-Mart. Now Anky. One consumer at a time, capitalism creeps into Communist China. Interesting, isn't it?

These clothing lines seem to be a "dressage thing". You just don't see this in H/J land. Yes, you will see products in Dover's and other catalogs with 'somebody's' name on them. With certain exceptions, those products were already designed and *then* the person simply endorses it and lets them put thier name on it.

Does Kyra K and Anky actually design this stuff?

msrobin
Aug. 19, 2008, 11:27 PM
Ugh ! Why give one red cent to China! They suck. What is she thinking?

DLee
Aug. 19, 2008, 11:46 PM
Ugh ! Why give one red cent to China! They suck. What is she thinking?

Check your clothes tag. :cool: I am more committed than ever now to not buy anything made in China.

Alagirl
Aug. 19, 2008, 11:58 PM
Ugh ! Why give one red cent to China! They suck. What is she thinking?


GIVE money to China?



HAHAHAHA, they do not go to China to give money away, but to MAKE money BIG TIME.

I don't see where 40 stores of Anky stuff would fit into China... but what do I know. China is the single biggest market place for the future!

And let's face it, the more capitalism creeps in the less hold the communist party will keep over the dealings.


And yes, check your house, likely a huge percentage of stuff in it will have come from China, including your high priced Tennis shoes! Like my cheap ones, probabaly from the same factory. Buying that cheap stuff from China lets us do more with our money and it changes the economic face of that far away land. More people use Chinese on the internet now then English...and eventually the information will flow uncensored into the population....

DLee
Aug. 20, 2008, 12:27 AM
I just realized my Ariats were made in China. :no::( Any good American paddock boots?

PasturePuff
Aug. 20, 2008, 12:57 AM
I just realized my Ariats were made in China. :no::( Any good American paddock boots?

I wish.... I hate Ariats tey do not last anymore, and now they are made in China.... Sigh

ridgeback
Aug. 20, 2008, 07:20 AM
I just realized my Ariats were made in China. :no::( Any good American paddock boots?

What about Grand Prix...not sure where they are made.

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:31 AM
I wish.... I hate Ariats tey do not last anymore, and now they are made in China.... Sigh

Reality check. Goods made in China are made to spec. The spec is supplied by the company contracting with the Chinese production facility. If you are buying cheap, shoddy goods made in China, in general(1), you are buying goods that are designed, spec-ed and INSPECTED by the company who is making the margin on your products. If your Ariats are shoddy, it is because Ariat is specifying that the material and the production of the Ariats are shoddy. NOT because "China produces shoddy goods."

If all goods made in China were shoddy, US based companies wouldn't have their products made there. Production moved from the US to China because products could be made there as well, if not better, for a lot less money. Now, call Ariat, whereever the hell they are based, if you have a problem with your Ariats.

Honestly, sometimes I find the ignorance displayed of simple things like the production and shipping of consumer packaged goods stupefying.
__________________________________________________ ________
(1) There are occasional errors made, as in the lead paint in children's toys - these things certainly happen, HOWEVER, they are not in the majority.

dutchmike
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:38 AM
Both recent Ariats I bought lasted 6 months. They are the biggest crappy boots I have ever seen since they are made in China

ridgeback
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:50 AM
Production moved from the US to China because products could be made there as well, if not better, for a lot less money. Now, call Ariat, whereever the hell they are based, if you have a problem with your Ariats.

Honestly, sometimes I find the ignorance displayed of simple things like the production and shipping of consumer packaged goods stupefying.


Can you say sweat shops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find the ignorance that some people display about China's honesty and integrity stupefying.. Talk about a reality check...LOL

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:55 AM
Can you say sweat shops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I find the ignorance that some people display about China's honesty and integrity stupefying.. Talk about a reality check...LOL

I live in China - Nanjing, specifically, hardly a western enclave. My husband operates an office out of China. I hardly consider myself ignorant.

If Ariat boots are crappy "now" and the only difference between "then" and "now" is that the boots are made in China, it's not a reflection of the ability of a Chinese production facility to produce quality work. It is a reflection of Ariat's choice of materials and their production standards. The Chinese factories produce to the standard of the company purchasing the goods. Ariat is choosing to produce substandard products.

ridgeback
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:56 AM
I live there. My husband operates an office out of China. I hardly consider myself ignorant.

AHHH now I understand:) Why don't you hold a peaceful protest about China's human rights...oh yea you can't...

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 20, 2008, 08:59 AM
Both recent Ariats I bought lasted 6 months. They are the biggest crappy boots I have ever seen since they are made in China

So call Ariat and complain.

FullCircleTraining
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:00 AM
...because products could be made there as well...for a lot less money.

I agree with Reynard Ridge here. I think the problem is not with the quality of Chinese workmanship - rather, it is that the companies that are moving their production to China or India or are doing so to [I]increase their margin. So it holds, then, that the companies who are purely concerned with profits (and not with quality) would also be tempted to downgrade the quality of materials used to further bolster their profit margin.

JSwan
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:12 AM
Thank you, RR. I dislike that we've turned over so much of our production to China - but you're right. The fault does not generally lie with China (adulterated products aside). It's American companies that give them the specs. Got a problem with an American product made in China..call the American company. It's their decisions that affect the quality of the products we buy.

Because we want cheap cheap cheap cheap. Properly made, well constructed, beautifully funished furniture? People won't pay for it. Want gorgeous tailored, beautiful clothes? Those come with a price tag we're not willing to pay.

Same with food.

You want cheap? You get cheap.


I live in China - Nanjing, specifically, hardly a western enclave. My husband operates an office out of China. I hardly consider myself ignorant.

If Ariat boots are crappy "now" and the only difference between "then" and "now" is that the boots are made in China, it's not a reflection of the ability of a Chinese production facility to produce quality work. It is a reflection of Ariat's choice of materials and their production standards. The Chinese factories produce to the standard of the company purchasing the goods. Ariat is choosing to produce substandard products.

Eclectic Horseman
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:20 AM
Reality check. Goods made in China are made to spec. The spec is supplied by the company contracting with the Chinese production facility. If you are buying cheap, shoddy goods made in China, in general(1), you are buying goods that are designed, spec-ed and INSPECTED by the company who is making the margin on your products. If your Ariats are shoddy, it is because Ariat is specifying that the material and the production of the Ariats are shoddy. NOT because "China produces shoddy goods."

If all goods made in China were shoddy, US based companies wouldn't have their products made there. Production moved from the US to China because products could be made there as well, if not better, for a lot less money. Now, call Ariat, whereever the hell they are based, if you have a problem with your Ariats.

Honestly, sometimes I find the ignorance displayed of simple things like the production and shipping of consumer packaged goods stupefying.
__________________________________________________ ________
(1) There are occasional errors made, as in the lead paint in children's toys - these things certainly happen, HOWEVER, they are not in the majority.

(2) anti-freeze ingredient in pet foods. :mad:

(3) DOG fur instead of faux fur. :mad:

(4) more less publicized issues with medications, etc.


American companies have not inspected for these dishonest practices because in our culture it would not even occur to someone to do these things! Caveat emptor.

Actually, I want to clarify that I am in FAVOR of globilization, read Thomas Friedman's "The World is Flat" and I'm a big believer. I am sure that it will all shake out in the end. But the Chinese are different culturally, and it is going to take some time for them to realize what is acceptable to the western consumer and what they cannot get away with.

sisu27
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:24 AM
If all goods made in China were shoddy, US based companies wouldn't have their products made there. Production moved from the US to China because products could be made there as well, if not better, for a lot less money. Now, call Ariat, whereever the hell they are based, if you have a problem with your Ariats.

Honestly, sometimes I find the ignorance displayed of simple things like the production and shipping of consumer packaged goods stupefying.
__________________________________________________ ________
(1) There are occasional errors made, as in the lead paint in children's toys - these things certainly happen, HOWEVER, they are not in the majority.

I'm sorry but you are wrong in part. Yes, production has moved from _______(US, CAN, MEX...) to China because products could be made there for a lot less money. Period. Quality is most definitely suffering. Yes, labour is MUCH cheaper as well but what sort of craftsmanship do you get for $1/week vs. $9/hour? I don't blame China. I blame the companies that resort to this and I don't buy their products. I blame Walmart in large part and don't shop there. Ever. Walmart necessitated the move of production in order for companies to stay alive. I know this first hand. I could write tomes on the subject. You are naive if you believe otherwise.

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:28 AM
Same with food.

You want cheap? You get cheap.

And sometimes deadly. :no:

I'm not a China "advocate," or "supporter." But I am all over trying to understand the global big picture. I have been in several Chinese production facilities. The ones I have visited are run by western companies and the western managers are working their tails off to run the manufacturing lines to western safety standards. They fail often, but they are making slow, steady progress. And as they implement safety standards and worker benefits, costs go up. So, "we," the western consumers, will be paying more for our goods.

At the cost of increased safety and quality of life for Chinese workers.:yes: The government is all over the foreign investors. What we're seeing happening is that as more foreign money comes in and as production moves out of the government offices, they government is beginning to mandate "worker rights." Which is all good - but, it's funny if you can see it that way: now that the goverment doesn't have to foot the bill, the employees are getting better wages, vacation and benefits. :yes:

If you want thoughtful debate, I'm all over it. China (and now more so than ever, Russia) pose some interesting challenges to the world. Europe and Asia are going to face some interesting questions in the next decade. Thoughtful, informed debate is important. But the key word is "thoughtful."

sisu27
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:30 AM
I agree with Reynard Ridge here. I think the problem is not with the quality of Chinese workmanship - rather, it is that the companies that are moving their production to China or India or are doing so to [I]increase their margin. So it holds, then, that the companies who are purely concerned with profits (and not with quality) would also be tempted to downgrade the quality of materials used to further bolster their profit margin.

They are trying to maintain a profit margin while Walmart increases theirs year over year.

JSwan
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:32 AM
I'm pretty sure RR knows all of that. She even mentioned abuses/adulterated products in her post.

Perhaps she's just reminding some of you that AMERICAN companies are outsourcing. I don't see y'all complaining about India. Ever make a service call for computer related problems?

OUTSOURCING is what y'all are complaining about - China is just your whipping boy. Your ignorance shows!

Do you know how much it would cost the consumer to purchase an American made product? WE don't want to pay the high prices. Americans created the very problem you are complaining about.

In some cases, you're paying top dollar for products that used to be made to very high standards, with beautiful, quality cloth and leather. Outsource it to China.... and it isn't China that decided to make that product out of poor quality components, ship it back, and still charge a hefty price for it. ;) Check out your fancy designer labels.

It's not only Mal-Wart that's marketing cheap, plastic crap.

How many of you have properly made furniture? A well constructed wood chair can cost 3K. It's worth every penny. But we buy chairs stapled and glued together for 60$ - we're not willing to pay 3K for a chair that our grandchildren will use.

Don't look at China - look in the mirror.

Ashby
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:32 AM
Are the shops going to sell special reins that allow you to crank the horse's head down to its chest? < ducking and running very fast> ;)

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:35 AM
I'm sorry but you are wrong in part. Yes, production has moved from _______(US, CAN, MEX...) to China because products could be made there for a lot less money. Period. Quality is most definitely suffering. Yes, labour is MUCH cheaper as well but what sort of craftsmanship do you get for $1/week vs. $9/hour? I don't blame China. I blame the companies that resort to this and I don't buy their products. I blame Walmart in large part and don't shop there. Ever. Walmart necessitated the move of production in order for companies to stay alive. I know this first hand. I could write tomes on the subject. You are naive if you believe otherwise.

I'm not naive. :cool: Sam Walton was brilliant, but I do wonder what he would think today about the legacy he left the world.

I will grant you the point about Wal-Mart. We were discussing Ariat, who doesn't sell through the mass merchandisers and has different market place pressures then someone who sells painted glassware. But I can agree that smaller manufacturers don't have the controls that, say a Nike has.

TemJeito
Aug. 20, 2008, 09:51 AM
You "purists" crack me up :lol: :lol:

I'm willing to bet your computers or some of their components are made in China . . .so get off the internet RIGHT NOW :lol:

Many of your cell phones are also made in China, as are your Ipods :lol: :lol:

Start checking things are around your house - you might be surprised by the time you are done throwing away everything made in China :yes: :lol:

yaya
Aug. 20, 2008, 10:01 AM
Today the manager of Anky Casuals announced that they have planned to open 40 shops in China the coming years. In these shops they will sell the complete line of Anky products.


My biggest question is: What kind of market would she have for her stuff in China?

It's not any sort of dressage mecca, and it's not like people have money to even have a horse. Why would they buy horse-riding clothing at all, much less 40 stores worth?

sisu27
Aug. 20, 2008, 10:47 AM
You "purists" crack me up :lol: :lol:

I'm willing to bet your computers or some of their components are made in China . . .so get off the internet RIGHT NOW :lol:

Many of your cell phones are also made in China, as are your Ipods :lol: :lol:

Start checking things are around your house - you might be surprised by the time you are done throwing away everything made in China :yes: :lol:

You're right. It is nearly impossible to exclude all things China from life. However rather than throw my hands in the air and say "oh well, too hard" I take the time to look and see where things are produced and speak with my $$ accordingly. Cell phone is a Blackberry made by RIM in CANADA. Running shoes are New Balance made in the USA. My horse wears $40 bell boots for turn out which he destroys on a monthly basis because they are made in the UK. And so on. It gets harder every day but it is all I can do. If it saves one job in NA I feel it will be worth the effort and extra expense.

Eclectic Horseman
Aug. 20, 2008, 10:50 AM
You're right. It is nearly impossible to exclude all things China from life. However rather than throw my hands in the air and say "oh well, too hard" I take the time to look and see where things are produced and speak with my $$ accordingly. Cell phone is a Blackberry made by RIM in CANADA. Running shoes are New Balance made in the USA. My horse wears $40 bell boots for turn out which he destroys on a monthly basis because they are made in the UK. And so on. It gets harder every day but it is all I can do. If it saves one job in NA I feel it will be worth the effort and extra expense.

Umm, where are the people in China and the rest of the world going to get the money to buy our stuff? Just asking. Because if we can't sell our stuff, then there are going to be a lot of lay offs in the NA.

Please read "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. He expresses much better than I can why protectionism is no better than a Ponzi scheme. Eventually you run out of customers!!

sisu27
Aug. 20, 2008, 11:13 AM
Umm, where are the people in China and the rest of the world going to get the money to buy our stuff? Just asking. Because if we can't sell our stuff, then there are going to be a lot of lay offs in the NA.

Please read "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. He expresses much better than I can why protectionism is no better than a Ponzi scheme. Eventually you run out of customers!!

I will read it but not today. Today I feel like that is very strange logic. If that were to happen it is a LONG way off. That pendulum is going to have to swing a good distance before we reach that point. With the amount of immigration happening daily here in Canada I am not worried. I'm not saying it is an impossibility but hardly something to fear at this point and not a valid reason to support China in any way. Just my thoughts.

Alagirl
Aug. 20, 2008, 11:33 AM
AHHH now I understand:) Why don't you hold a peaceful protest about China's human rights...oh yea you can't...


???


Well, a lot of High end products are also made in China...those expensive Nikes everybody wants? And they don't cost any more to make then the Cheap Walmart ones.

It is not like US companies have not cut corners that endangered lives before.


And believe it or not, by putting that 1 $ a week in a Chinese person's pocket (it buys a whole lot more then 9$ an hour in most places over here!) and being present in China with all the Western influence a person brings with her, RR is probably doing a whole lot more than any peaceful protest anywhere else in the world.


But I am still in the dark as to who would buy Anky's stuff in China...yes there are a lot of people getting rich there right now, but I still don't see it...or is she branching into production?

tecumsea
Aug. 20, 2008, 12:49 PM
May I interject:

Kathy Lee meet Anky, Anky meet Kathy Lee, now you may both show each other your facilities followed by a trip to the 6 and under room where all directions, quality control and other stuff is done in crayon, to be followed by questions from, Primetime Live, Primetime Investigates and all other braodcasts!!!!

Good Grief.

As much as I hate products being made over seas in unfair employment practices, let her open up stores and wait for the circus to begin.

DLee
Aug. 20, 2008, 01:22 PM
I never particularly thought of my Ariats as cheap. And I actually LOVE my Ariats. That's why I was disappointed that they were made there. And yep, I wrote to Ariat and told them I was switching to.... something else, not sure what yet. :lol:

And it isn't just China, it's outsourcing in general, although I have to admit I was really ignorant about China until these Olympics and that has made me read much, much more. :(

So, I do my little part that I can and buy what I can from hopefully my own country or countries I support. My leather halters all come from Quillin. :yes:

Albion
Aug. 20, 2008, 01:25 PM
Anyone who thinks capitalism 'coming' to China (hello - it's been there for decades under the CCP, and centuries if we ignore the 2.5 decade blip post-'49) is going to equal a loss of power for the CCP is either delusional and/or doesn't know their history. One reason for the Tiananmen Square protests was dissatisfaction over the loosening of economic restrictions without loosening of political restrictions that had been building for quite some time. Capitalism is not 'creeping' into China, it's been there for a VERY long time and even under the CCP, capitalist structures were carrying forward in little ways (like on the village level). The history of the CCP, like the history of anything, goes in cycles - and we've seen periods of extreme repression as well as 'opening up,' even during periods that most Westerners associate with Mao and extremism.

China is perfectly capable of producing extremely high quality goods. I'd put my Chinese-made goods up against anything produced in the West. But, in the case of clothes, for example, I bought the fabric myself, went to a tailor, and had them made. American companies, and more importantly, the bulk of American CONSUMERS wouldn't want to pay the prices for $$$ workmanship, whether it's done here or in China or wherever.

Mainland China & more recently ROC have been duped, cheated, and lied to by Western powers for nearly two centuries at this point. Well, now they're the one's holding the reins - we've made our consumer-oriented bed, and now it's time to lie in it. Not a pretty vantage point, is it? :no:

Coreene
Aug. 20, 2008, 01:35 PM
These clothing lines seem to be a "dressage thing". You just don't see this in H/J land. Actually, you see it all through Europe in the different disciplines. New colors every season, new fashion line for spring / summer / autumn / winter, all in the new styles and colors. Just divine. Thank goodness my ass is too fat to wear anything but black breeches, or I'd have blown all my money just on riding clothes when I was in Holland in April.

Theo, I love the PK stuff. Didn't they do the KNHS jackets they sell at Divoza? I got one, I love it.

Miss Dior
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:19 PM
Take a look at cristina sport .de Very spiffy. No rollkur reins though...darn!!!!!!

JSwan
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:33 PM
Actually, you see it all through Europe in the different disciplines. New colors every season, new fashion line for spring / summer / autumn / winter, all in the new styles and colors. Just divine. Thank goodness my ass is too fat to wear anything but black breeches, or I'd have blown all my money just on riding clothes when I was in Holland in April.

Theo, I love the PK stuff. Didn't they do the KNHS jackets they sell at Divoza? I got one, I love it.

I have some fahhhbulous riding boots - Newmarket style - perfect for shopping in London, then rushing over the Guards to watch the polo. Or Cowdray; wherever HRM can be found. :D;)

(In truth they are just rubber boots I got on sale at a local tack store. But they are made in England.)

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:45 PM
Yeah new Ariats suck... they are more like rubber than leather. I can't believe that even the Monacos are made in China... who here wants to pay for $800 non-custom, Chinese made boots when you can get custom, Italian made boots for that price?! The old Ariats were made in Italy, at least that's what my old Crownes said.

I LOVE Grand Prix now... and as far as I know, they are still made in Italy.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:56 PM
Yeah new Ariats suck... they are more like rubber than leather. I can't believe that even the Monacos are made in China... who here wants to pay for $800 non-custom, Chinese made boots when you can get custom, Italian made boots for that price?! The old Ariats were made in Italy, at least that's what my old Crownes said.



Anyone considering spending that kind of money on paddock boots should look to getting Vogel ones -- custom, made in NYC, and less expensive.

JSwan
Aug. 20, 2008, 04:59 PM
Or Dehner's. Made in the US. Somewhere. Nebraska? Iowa? Somewhere people grow lots of corn.

Good boots.

3Dogs
Aug. 20, 2008, 05:54 PM
my Dehner paddock boots are still going strong - 17 years old, black and brown - I loff them!

Appsolute
Aug. 20, 2008, 07:04 PM
My husband is a buyer for a bicycle company. Most bicycles are made in China, or Taiwan these days. The quality out of Taiwan is much higher then average then the quality out of China. With the SAME SPECs. The specs are given out to bidders, samples are made.. and inspected. Even with the same specs quality differs greatly from one manufacturer to the next.

Its also VERY common to have a manufacturer make samples, that look good, get the deal inked, first shipments will look good.. and then, quality will go down after the deal is sealed. This has happened time and time again with different manufacturers. Once the contract is in place, it is hard to leverage the manufacturers to improve their quality.

One was a Chinese company making bike frames. First two shipments were great, then, the bikes started breaking in half (with riders on them!). But, the contract was signed, and the Chinese company pointed out they had the option to "fix" the broken frames.. which was a shoddy patch.. Long story short quality is often not consistent in china, and business carries a different set of ethics then what is thought as acceptable in the western world.



If Ariat boots are crappy "now" and the only difference between "then" and "now" is that the boots are made in China, it's not a reflection of the ability of a Chinese production facility to produce quality work. It is a reflection of Ariat's choice of materials and their production standards. The Chinese factories produce to the standard of the company purchasing the goods. Ariat is choosing to produce substandard products.