Is it time to say goodbye to the FEI? - Petition added

[Vegas Sky]

In light of the Olympics and the recent threads on all that is happening there, I think that we, as eventers, are posed with one really big question: Is it time to say our goodbyes to the FEI, and therefore the Olympics and possibly even the WEG? Should the USEA split off of even the USEF and go our own way as many of the breed organizations have?

How would such a thing be accomplished - would we leave the upper-levels to the bureaucrats and only split off the lower levels, or would we take all the levels and let the bureaucrats run CCIs only if they feel like it? What would be the ramifications of such a move for the USEA?

I am interested in everyone's opinions, but please keep it civil.

[deltawave]

I think it's worth talking about, but can't be driven entirely by pique or hard feelings. It's just gotten to be a different sport at the top, and less and less relevant to the rest of us.

Whatever happens, I certainly don't think the CCI format (the real one) should be part of the carnage--if anything, I think its best chance for survival is with the lower level riders, who can return it to the pinnacle it once was, and learn a hell of a lot about horsemanship in the process. Give everyone who completes one their gold medal--they've earned it. :yes:

[flutie1]

Having put on FEI competitions for the past 5 years, I think one of the biggest problems I've noted in my involvement with the FEI is that they have not Clue One about eventing in the States - in fact, eventing anywhere but in Europe. How do the Aussies handle the apparent disconnect (aside from Wayne Roycroft's handling of it by getting pissed off which I believe is entirely justified. He was obviously dissed.)

flutie

[quietann]

Having put on FEI competitions for the past 5 years, I think one of the biggest problems I've noted in my involvement with the FEI is that they have not Clue One about eventing in the States - in fact, eventing anywhere but in Europe. How do the Aussies handle the apparent disconnect (aside from Wayne Roycroft's handling of it by getting pissed off which I believe is entirely justified. He was obviously dissed.)

flutie

Good point... but how is it different in Europe, or Australia? Just curious!

[JER]

I'd recommend taking a look at the endurance model. The American Endurance Ride Conference (AERC) was founded as an NGB for Endurance in 1972. The FEI recognized endurance as a discipline in 1978; by 1982, AERC and the FEI had worked out an agreement for international competitions. The old USET added endurance as a discipline in 1993.

Endruance riders are not, by nature, the type who welcome European bureaucracy to their sport. Endurance was doing just fine without their help and they'd be the first to tell you that. There's an AERC committee, AERC-International (http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_FEI.asp)(AERC-I) that acts as a liaison between AERC, USEF and FEI but for the most part, AERC is all about endurance in the US.

AERCs most prestigious events, the Tevis Cup and the Old Dominion, are not run under the FEI's auspices. The AERC National Championships (http://www.dbdr.info/Assets/NC_2008_RideFlyer-1.pdf) are not run under the FEI's auspices.

Most endurance riders and ride managers (organizers) will never, ever come into contact with the FEI, even at the top levels of the sport. If you want to go the international/FEI route, it's there for you and AERC-I will tell you how to go about this. If not, you can compete in the most prestigious events and national championships without ever getting an FEI passport or even learning what FEI stands for.

One big difference here is AERC was founded as and functioned as an NGB years before its shotgun marriage to the USEF. But I think the AERC model is one worth thinking about because the prevailing notion is that what's best for US endurance is not what's best for endurance riding in, say, Holland. And that seems to be the case for eventing as well.

Another thing to think about: how would eventing change if the FEI wasn't involved? What would be affected? Would it suffice to have an 'international track' for those with goals to ride overseas?

[Rescue_Rider9]

I know a lot of people state that all the problems come up with young riders moving up the levels to fast and with the long format gone. What if the long format came back only for the lower levels. I am pretty sure the reason the long format is gone was because of the olympics (that iswhat I have heard anyway. I could be wrong). So what if the olympics and only 4* events were held with the short format? Or even some 3* Like only the Olympics qualifiers were short format?

I could be totally off, but with what I hear everyone say on here this is what I can gather. But again.. I am just a newbie who knows nothing about the sport and am trying to learn about it and pray that its still around when I get good enough to compete higher.

[Thames Pirate]

I know a lot of people state that all the problems come up with young riders moving up the levels to fast and with the long format gone. What if the long format came back only for the lower levels. I am pretty sure the reason the long format is gone was because of the olympics (that iswhat I have heard anyway. I could be wrong). So what if the olympics and only 4* events were held with the short format? Or even some 3* Like only the Olympics qualifiers were short format?

I could be totally off, but with what I hear everyone say on here this is what I can gather. But again.. I am just a newbie who knows nothing about the sport and am trying to learn about it and pray that its still around when I get good enough to compete higher.

The problem is that there is no ONE event or series of events that are Olympic qualifiers. Anything at the top levels gets you points to qualify you (as an individual), but more points are awarded to the CCIs than CICs, for example. If the WEGs had remained long format, we could have seen a compromise for the Olympics, but not for Rolex, Badminton, Burghley, etc. The sport as a whole sold out to the Olympic format, and one has to wonder why.

We do have the long format at the "lower" levels (the T3DE/half star and the CCI*). However, you don't want it to be at too low a level--the point of Novice and Training was to be educational levels to better prepare you for the eventual Prelim and then CCI*. We run back into the problem of the "mini-Rolex" if we go too far down that road.

[Vegas Sky]

I think everyone here has brought up good points.

In my personal opinion, yes it is time to break off of the FEI. JER mentions the Endurance example, and that seems like a good model, though I must admit my knowledge of it is limited to what was in that post.

So if we (the 30,000 non-international riders) were going to break away, how would we do it? It seems less than likely that the USEA would cut the apron strings from the USEF...would we have to create a new USEA? Perhaps if we did have a new USEA, we could follow the Endurance model even further and make the old USEA the liaison between US eventing and international eventing.

BUT...what would that do to our big-name events, such as Rolex, Galway Downs, Rebecca Farms, Jersey Fresh? Would they still run under the FEI or change to the new regime?...but I suppose that would ultimately be up to each event...

I have a feeling that as a whole, 90% of eventers would favor the split. But where do we even start?

[Shrapnel]

I think that we, as eventers, are posed with one really big question: Is it time to say our goodbyes to the FEI, and therefore the Olympics and possibly even the WEG? Should the USEA split off of even the USEF and go our own way as many of the breed organizations have?


No, it's not time to "say goodbye to the FEI". I actually think that's a rather stupid idea. I don't like them either, but any issue isnt worth loosing the Olympic and WEG competitions over. I'm sorry, but that is my personal opinion.

What about us YRs that have Olympic and WEG dreams/goals!?

[Hannahsmom]

The sport as a whole sold out to the Olympic format, and one has to wonder why.

From my armchair QB seat...because there were no entries for the non-Olympic format. I have never heard upper level riders weigh in on whether they need the Olympic competition or goal as a reason for owners, horses, etc. but I assume they must NEED the Olympics for thieir personal or financial goals based on their actions. I will guess, I think those ULR's that don't NEED the Olympics are voicing with their dollars and entries. An organizer cannot offer divisions people will note enter, if competitors don't enter them, they will offer what people enter.

This is just a guess from observations.

[deltawave]

What about us YRs that have Olympic and WEG dreams/goals!?

Let them shoot for their goals. Nobody's saying the FEI should cease to exist, but 99% of the sport's competitors go on their merry way without crossing paths with the FEI--let the FEI co-exist somehow with the upper levels, leave the rest of the sport to those of us whose aspirations are to be good horsemen, to compete and to have fun with our peers and to reach pinnacles that are meaningful to us.

[denny]

I`d like to see the USEA step up and become semi-autonomous from the USEF, and begin to take a stronger role in running at least Beg. Novice through Training levels, giving its members what its members want, not giving them FEI hand me downs from the 2 or 3 higher levels.

Can this happen? I think so, but it will take the USEA membership really getting involved in requesting it, and I question the will and staying power necessary to pull off a mini revolution.

[flutie1]

From my armchair QB seat...because there were no entries for the non-Olympic format. I have never heard upper level riders weigh in on whether they need the Olympic competition or goal as a reason for owners, horses, etc. but I assume they must NEED the Olympics for thieir personal or financial goals based on their actions. I will guess, I think those ULR's that don't NEED the Olympics are voicing with their dollars and entries. An organizer cannot offer divisions people will note enter, if competitors don't enter them, they will offer what people enter.

This is just a guess from observations.

A sad observation - since the emergence of the CIC's and their evident importance, the FEI divisions - 1,2 and 3* - are effectively killing off the National Advanced, Intermediate and Preliminary horse trial levels. Riders are going where they can qualify because the system has been set up that way. Too bad. As an organizer who holds FEI divisions, I honestly don't dare drop them even though they are a PITA and not really cost effective to run. A real Catch 22!

Flutie

[Long Shadow Farm]

If we decided to step away from the FEI, I think it would be pretty easy to convince some/most events to hold regular HT vs FEI shows. I know around here (Area V) we only have one event that has FEI divisions. Most of the Area V people I know don't give a hoot about FEI vs regular shows. They just want to show and would probably be much happier not having to run around trying to get passports, etc. And who said that we had to have our biggest events based on FEI status. I betcha 5 dollars that if the people behind does events said that they are going to run them without the FEI status, people would still go. I mean, Rolex would still be Rolex and people would still go and compete regardless if it was FEI sanctioned or not!

Just my little training level brain thoughts...........

Bobbi

[RAyers]

Dare I say it?

Viva la revolution! Burn the FEI!

The FEI has become eurocentric, static and political. I doubt the Princess ever had a beer after XC.

[Vegas Sky]

RAyers, I share your sentiment! I feel it is in the best interest of the sport, even for those of us who have international goals in mind.

But the question remains, how do we start? Denny mentioned giving the USEA pressure from the lower levels, but what if we just took the national horse trials from BN-A and started a whole new organization?

[Long Shadow Farm]

I don't know if we would have to start all over with a totally new association vs just making it known to the USEA through mass petitions, letters, etc, that we are tired of having to bend to the FEIs rule. It would be very costly for us to start over and we do have a great organization, we just need to make it known to them that the 30,000+ lower level people are tired of catering to FEI and the top few riders who support them. Then if they don't listen, we can take the next step. I would think that if the powers that been in USEA figured they are going to lose the vast majority of their membership if they don't do something about us being ran over the top of by the FEI, they may step up and do something. But they have to hear it directly from us through the petitions, letters and boycotting of FEI divisions. Just as Flutie said, the upper level FEI division are getting all the entries. So if you are an upper level rider, enter in the National division instead. Otherwise, if you a lower level, you need to start sending letters and we need to generate a petition to go around for everyone to sign. If someone who has greater writing skills than mine would draft it up, I would for sure sign it!

Look at the AECs........ they are not FEI are they? and they are one of our greatest events now........ no reason if the Orgs of other great events pulled their support for FEI, they shouldn't still be able to have their shows. People will still attend and support the destination events regardless of FEI status (or I feel they would....... ).

Once we break our dependent ties to FEI, we can create our own divisions that replace the status of the FEI divisions. This will not be the end of upper level Eventing, including the CCIs and CICs, but rather a move for us to bring them back under our control so we can make decisions for them that better reflect the population of Eventing in America and not a handful of big wigs.

Excuse any and all typos and spelling errors... it's 3:15am and I am letting the dogs out as I type!

Bobbi

[Thames Pirate]

While that sounds great, the USEA will not move away from the FEI (and certianly not with the USEF's approval). We can boycott FEI divisions, organizers can choose not to run them, and the USEA will suddenly decide to split from the FEI? Nope, they're still getting their money from us, because even to enter national divisions we have to be members of the USEA. I could (assuming I were at that level, which I am not) go Prelim, pay my USEA/USEF dues to be able to do so, and do they actually care if I choose to enter the Prelim or the CIC*? We're effectively cutting off our noses to spite our faces. The FEI simply says "fine, we can do without the pesky USA."

If there is going to be a split, it won't be from the FEI (at least not yet). It would be far more likely to be a parallel organization to the USEA that is autonomous from the USEF and the FEI. It would have to start at the lower levels, and the shows would likely be more like schooling shows until you get organizer buy-in. That would be the tricky part. If there were two organizations putting on "recognized" (by that organization's nat'l governing body) shows, I would likely do both, as I am not a point chaser, but an adrenaline chaser and an experience collector. Thus we would have a house divided so severely that only one half can survive, and it won't be the offshoot.

Don't get me wrong--I'm not happy with the current state of affairs within the FEI, the USEF, and the USEA. However, pressure to change from within is perhaps more feasible at this time than a full-on split. That would take planning before one could make that "threat" to the USEA/USEF legitimately.

[denny]

The FEI dictates standards to all the national federations, including USEF.
Then USEF makes rules which dictate how US events are run, and this is where much dissatisfaction lies.

If the 3 top levels want to play by FEI standards, that shouldn`t mean the other 85% of USEA members should have to, if that 85% feels those standards are unappropriate.

Which brings the question, "who is the USEA for?"

Which is why I wrote that recent Between Rounds about the growing divide between the top few, and the majority.

If USEA`s primary interest is in its big guns, and reading the magazine, and seeing which riders are usually on the cover leads to that supposition, then it`s up to the disenfranchised many to speak out.

Stay silent, take what you get.

[Vegas Sky]

Here is a very very very rough draft of a petition that I just wrote. Please suggest any changes that you think should be made. I really only took a few minutes to do it, and with the ideas I have gathered here, so please make suggestions. I tried to keep it as brief as possible.

After we get a final draft, we need to get a way of circulating it around...I don't think the USEA would be very fond of us taking out a full-page ad in the magazine :) besides, I am only a poor college student with no advertising budget.


Petition for Autonomy from the FEI and the USEF

We, the members of The Unites States Eventing Association, recognizing the recent changes in format and governance of our sport, do petition for autonomy from the International Equestrian Federation and The United States Equestrian Federation for the following purposes:

1) The USEF and more particularly the FEI operate for the best interest of equestrian sport and competition as a whole, and not for the best interests of eventing.
2) The recent changes and tragedies to befall eventing have created new challenges and necessary changes that are unique to American eventing.
3) In order for the sport to survive in this country, these changes need to be made by eventers for the best interest of eventing, free from influence of other disciplines or nations.

We propose that the following actions be taken as soon as possible to ensure the future survival of our great sport:

1) That the USEA separate the national horse trial levels (i.e. Beginner Novice through Training and non-FEI division Preliminary through Advanced divisions) from governance of the USEF and the FEI.
2) That the changes necessary to ensure the sport’s survival, while maintaining firstly the welfare of the horse, and secondly the safety of the rider, be made in consultation and accordance with the membership of the USEA.
3) That the USEA maintain a liaison with the USEF and the FEI for those current and future riders who wish to compete internationally.

We, the undersigned, propose that these actions be implemented immediately according to the wishes of the membership of The United States Eventing Association.

[ss3777]

Autonomy certainly sounds like an attractive idea. Does the USEA have the resources/desire to take this on? What sort of revenue would the FEI/USEF lose as a result of this schism? If the FEI/USEF are going to lose $$ I assume there will be a bit of a skirmish on our hands. History teaches us that organizers can not continue a format that does not attract entries. Would this split cause the big names and their students to not show up at some venues? Just trying to brain storm with this worth while effort, not throw rocks.

[LexInVA]

Autonomy certainly sounds like an attractive idea. Does the USEA have the resources/desire to take this on? What sort of revenue would the FEI/USEF lose as a result of this schism? If the FEI/USEF are going to lose $$ I assume there will be a bit of a skirmish on our hands. History teaches us that organizers can not continue a format that does not attract entries. Would this split cause the big names and their students to not show up at some venues? Just trying to brain storm with this worth while effort, not throw rocks.

The USEF cannot and won't split from the FEI. Not gonna happen unless you somehow seized control of the organization. The USEA could certainly split from the USEF (at least in theory) but there are some logistical problems that would need addressing before it could be a viable idea. The International stuff is all done through the USEF so in reality, the domestic sport wouldn't really lose anything sweeping other than the rules/regulations of the USEF and whatever changes the USEF tries to make to the sport to bring US Eventing into parity with what the UK has. Of course there are other things that would also need to be replaced like the USEF Young Rider program but it would be a good way to reorganize the administration of the sport to reflect recent events and whatever changes of direction would better serve the masses.

[SEPowell]

2) That the changes necessary to ensure the sport’s survival, while maintaining firstly the welfare of the horse, and secondly the safety of the rider, be made in consultation and accordance with the membership of the USEA.

While I think most of the people who read this board value horses much more than they value humans, I think you still might consider dropping the "firstly" and the "secondly". :lol:

[Hannahsmom]

A sad observation - since the emergence of the CIC's and their evident importance, the FEI divisions - 1,2 and 3* - are effectively killing off the National Advanced, Intermediate and Preliminary horse trial levels. Riders are going where they can qualify because the system has been set up that way. Too bad. As an organizer who holds FEI divisions, I honestly don't dare drop them even though they are a PITA and not really cost effective to run. A real Catch 22!

Flutie

Yes, I would agree with you. I hate it too, and wish for the old CCN divisions. I refused to ride in any of the FEI levels just on the principle of the thing. That whole extra registration really galled me. My coaches kept trying to convince me that I needed to do that with my horse and I just had to say that I wouldn't on the principle of it. I just stayed at the horse trials and competed up through Intermediate. But for organizers, you are stuck with offering what the ULR's riders 'need', particularly if you want to break even.