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TeddyRocks
Aug. 16, 2008, 07:33 AM
So it starts... Any early predictions? Go Steffan and Courtney!

SGray
Aug. 16, 2008, 07:59 AM
watched the GP at work on T1 lines - wonderful

here at home on DSL I get stop-motion and it's every third or fourth stride -- too frustrating

(interestingly everthing is smooth when I go to the youtube videos)

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 08:00 AM
I'm just curious to see if the horses will relax more this time around.

There's some jerkiness in my vid feed today. Diff comp though so could be a comp speed issue.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 08:55 AM
GO STEFFEN AND COURTNEY... I LOVE STEFFEN'S HORSE:D

PennyRidge
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:04 AM
Just for informational purposes...his name is Steffen (with an "e"), not Steffan.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:28 AM
Wow no Dutch judge for Anky..

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:31 AM
Wow! Balagur, the pink Russian horse, had a great test! 71.4!

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:33 AM
and all the judges agreed:D

Nikki^
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:33 AM
Alexandra Korelova of Russia put in a gorgeous ride. Could those piaffes be anymore perfect?!

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:34 AM
Balagur is a joy to watch. So happy in his work.

nickers@dawn
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:35 AM
Does anyone know Balagur's breeding? Is he a gelding also?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:37 AM
Is he on youtube with his first ride? I can't find anything so if someone could provide a link I'd much appreciate it.

Dorienna
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:39 AM
Vincent just had a lovely ride... quite nice!

Nikki^
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:41 AM
Does anyone know Balagur's breeding? Is he a gelding also?

He's a stallion. You can see that his forelock isn't braided and most people who ride stallions in their tests do not braid the forelock.

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:44 AM
Yes, a 1990 stallion by Raskat, it says here:
http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2008/08og/pre_gpsorder.html

But breed/ registry affiliation was not provided.

nickers@dawn
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:48 AM
Thanks, I didn't know about the forelock custom. I've groomed stallions in the US and we braided the forelock. This was 20 years ago though....

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:51 AM
I'm surprised by Minderhoud's score. The haunches were swinging all over the place in the changes.

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:51 AM
84F (29C)

Humidity 78%

Feels like: 91F (33C)

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:55 AM
84F (29C)

Humidity 78%

Feels like: 91F (33C)

Yikes. I wonder if any of the competitors are using cool packs under their clothes.

yaya
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:56 AM
According to some other sites, Balagur is an Orlov Trotter.

hsheffield
Aug. 16, 2008, 09:57 AM
anyone else wondering if the USA could get an individual medal?

Courtney's freestyle has changed a lot since California (more music written esp. for Myth) though she hasn't performed the changes in public yet.

SP has a great though green horse that could pull it out...

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:01 AM
84F (29C)

Humidity 78%

Feels like: 91F (33C)

What is the dewpoint? Dewpoint is what makes it feel really muggy.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:02 AM
anyone else wondering if the USA could get an individual medal?

Courtney's freestyle has changed a lot since California (more music written esp. for Myth) though she hasn't performed the changes in public yet.

SP has a great though green horse that could pull it out...


What determines if they can ride in the freestyle?

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:04 AM
What is the dewpoint? Dewpoint is what makes it feel really muggy.

Dewpoint is 77F

hsheffield
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:05 AM
I believe the top 15 (or is it 12?) move on to the freestyle. I think both SP and CK will make it to the freestyle.

I think the scores from the GP don't count for individual: only the special and the freestyle.


please someone correct me if I'm wrong...

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
Dewpoint is 77F

Ouch...

Dorienna
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
i missed the first few rides... Can anyone recap Ashley's (Pop Art) ride for me?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
I believe the top 15 (or is it 12?) move on to the freestyle. I think both SP and CK will make it to the freestyle.

I think the scores from the GP don't count for individual: only the special and the freestyle.


please someone correct me if I'm wrong...

So the top 12 or 15 from the special move on to the freestyle? GO USA

hsheffield
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:10 AM
IMHO, Ashley didn't have the amazing flow that she usually has. I've been trying to decide if it's because it's on video and not in person....I'm wondering if that changes things?


Does anyone else think Don Schufro is fighting Andreas? He looks like a strong horse.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:10 AM
Ashley holzers ride was gorgeous

yaya
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:11 AM
Well, you can tell Don Schufro is using his abs - he's breathing from both ends!

That's what you get with mikes all the way around the arena!

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:13 AM
Andreas had a big bobble in the passage to extended trot. They weren't in sinc though I don't think they were fighting per se.

PS: what a nice horse Elvis is, he decided to poop for the judges. LOL
PPS: now Elvis looks interested in fighting. He was waving his head for a bit in the passage work.

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:16 AM
Don Schufro - nice ride, I like the horse...but he and Briar seemed to looked tired in places. Just didn't have the spark.

yaya
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:18 AM
Elvis also broke to canter in the first trot half-pass.

He didn't want to do that first piaffe - he probably wasn't done pooping.

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:23 AM
I think cappelman's score was a tad generous for all that went on in the test. That horse has a funky walk. Very stiff and jerky in front. Tood bad, not as nice a test as the first one.

They're replaying the russian horse's piafe. Wow. that really was lovely. I'd call that perfect. Wonder what her score was for that one movement they just showed.

kt
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:23 AM
They just showed a replay of Balagur during the ring drag. I'm loving that little pink pony! What a champ.

dressagetraks
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:24 AM
There's a line that I read in a report after Atlanta 1996 that has always stuck with me. Whoever riding Weyden for the bronze (easier to remember the horses than the riders for me :D) said of a rough spot in one of his tests, "Imagine that I'm on the toilet, and someone comes up to me right then and wants me to piaffe." :lol:

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:24 AM
Ashley makes it to the freestyle! YAY

monicabee
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
Well, you can tell Don Schufro is using his abs - he's breathing from both ends!

That's what you get with mikes all the way around the arena!

I was trying to think of a polite way of putting this! It was quite noticeable in his GP test too. I guess it is not a way of advertising engagement...

They are just showing a little of Balagur, will have to wait for the rewind to see that in full. Obviously a crowd favorite. I wonder if he got applause like that at the circus where he supposedly began.

Schiffon
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
Does anyone else think that Elvis lacks engagement and self carriage in the collected canter? Looks to me like a 3rd level horse. Medium trot also. I usually find myself wishing the GP horses would have a longer frame and cover more ground in the medium but he was too much so.

Fantastic
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:25 AM
What did Nadine just have to sign? Did she get chosen for drug testing?

I heard her say "nooooooo" after she got off Elvis, after the man spoke to her in german. After she signed, the english speaking woman with the clipboard said "you can do it or I can".

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:26 AM
Hey, they're finally showing the band!

Funny quote about piafe and toilets.

AiryFairy
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:29 AM
Alexandra Korelova of Russia put in a gorgeous ride. Could those piaffes be anymore perfect?!

I've been a fan of his for a long time - and no one deserves more to be in the medals than this horse with the perfect piaffe, he looks like came straight out of a book on classical horsemanship. She had a couple of bobbles in the qualifier where rather than piaffe, he stopped for a step and she poked him to get him going again. Today she rode beautifully, amazing rider and horse.

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:30 AM
Would be cool to see a come from behind horse and rider get a medal.

added: NBC's site is doing it again. As the competition progresses, they are slowly loosing the final scores for every rider. Ugh.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:32 AM
Balagur article http://www.eurodressage.com/news/focus/foc_balagur.html

He probably learnt his P&P in the circus!

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:32 AM
What did Nadine just have to sign? Did she get chosen for drug testing?

I heard her say "nooooooo" after she got off Elvis, after the man spoke to her in german. After she signed, the english speaking woman with the clipboard said "you can do it or I can".

I assumed drug testing, but I really don't know.

I'm suprised nobody has lost their medals yet...

Dorienna
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:32 AM
they just showed Ashley's ride on rerun, wow what a tactful rider... And she goes on to the freestyle! Good for her!

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:33 AM
So the top 12 or 15 from the special move on to the freestyle? GO USA


Top 15 go on to the freestyle.

Fantastic
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:35 AM
Isn't that announcer Brian O'Connor? I recognize his voice from Dressage at Devon.

The announcer on the first day sounded like Nico Meredeth, who usually announces at the big California shows.

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:37 AM
Another Donnerhall child.

Nice to see famous stallions represented here.

Stubborn Mare
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:43 AM
i missed the first few rides... Can anyone recap Ashley's (Pop Art) ride for me?

Personally I thought Ashley's ride was lovely but don't know how it compares to her usual. My impressions were that it was clean, correct and generally tension-free, just maybe a bit flat - nothing terribly dazzling but got the job done. Did anyone else catch the candid comment she made afterward asking which judge put her in last place? (after five tests, three judges had her first, one third and the german judge fifth).

Seems like many of the rides are suffering from serious fatigue about 3/4 through, horses getting heavy and more faults creeping in - understandable of course. I felt Don Schufro was one of those, though Helgstrand said afterwards his canter and passage felt better than previously.

Fantastic, they are doing quite a bit of random drug testing it seems, and did the same for the eventers. There are officials with clipboards and the riders that are tested seem to more or less have to drop everything straight after their ride to go over paperwork etc. Don't think there's anything unusual or signficant about Nadine being asked.

Roll on the afternoon and keep fingers and toes crossed for Emma Hindle (oh yes, and the Americans and Canadians too of course!)

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:43 AM
A little Elvis trivia for you:

Elvis has the distinct honor of having bucked off Nadine Capellman, Klaus Balkenhol, AND Martin Schaudt (who originally purchased him at Verden). After two bad spills, Nadine Capellman wouldn't ride the horse for a solid two years. The trainer she sent him to straightened him out, but I imagine he's still a very difficult ride.

I find his breeding (Espri/ Garibaldi II) pretty inspired and, despite the bobbles in today's test, I think Capellman has done a very good job with the horse.

PS - He is named Elvis because as a foal his forelock always fell from right to left. :)

Fantastic
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:43 AM
Hey, it is our Brian O'Connor! Good for him!

http://special.equisearch.com/blog/brianoconnor/2008/08/day-4-o3.html

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:51 AM
On my feed I can hear someone (a judge, perhaps?) giving Stephan's scores for each movement. 9...8....7....8....if that is really what I'm hearing (and not just a backseat judge in the grandstands) he got a 9 for his first extended trot and he is getting mostly 8's throughout. (So far).

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
YEE HA Steffen in first place... 71.8 GO Courtney...1, 2 for USA

Fantastic
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:56 AM
GO STEFFAN and RAVEL!!!

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:57 AM
So cool, he is thrilled! "Good Stuff". I like how they show a little bit at the end.

Happy Feet
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:57 AM
Yipee!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 10:58 AM
What is the highest score ever given at this level of competition? I assume there's never absolute perfection?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:05 AM
good score for Courtney? 70.8%

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:07 AM
Courtney did really well! She should be proud of herself in her Olympic debut!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:08 AM
Gotta love the kiss!

freestyle2music
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:09 AM
Courtney did really well! She should be proud of herself in her Olympic debut!

And probably we don't see the German Judge back during the Freestyle to Music. He placed Courtney #13 ?!

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:11 AM
And probably we don't see the German Judge back during the Freestyle to Music. He placed Courtney #13 ?!

I guess that explains why her score was lower than I expecting!

Stubborn Mare
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:12 AM
agh, it's all too much - I MUST go make a cuppa tea... someone PLEASE fill me in on Kyra K and Anky's rides?!??

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:12 AM
Both americans had one judge give them significantly lower scores. Kind of odd. Hmm, the first three, I should say.

Jasper'sMom
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:13 AM
I guess that explains why her score was lower than I expecting!

Yes, I thought her ride was at least as good as Steffen's, and probably better. I guess two of the judges agreed, but :eek: that is quite a discrepancy from the judge at E!

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:13 AM
In Steffen's and Courtney's rides....both horses seemed so mentally relaxed.

Beautiful ride Steffen ! Such attention to the smallest details.

And Courtney - so cool and elegant on a stunning horse. He looked just like his dad a few times...

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:14 AM
And probably we don't see the German Judge back during the Freestyle to Music. He placed Courtney #13 ?!


Sjeesh. I was wondering about the score. I have not seen the rest (got up late). But that is irritating.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
67.400 (13) 71.400 (3) 71.800 (1) 72.800 (1) 70.600 (5)

How do these riders not get completely frustrated with the politics.. Good for them to keep going:mad:

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
Ugh. Thank you German judge.

Kyra's horse looked PISSED during the whole ride.

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:15 AM
I do wish the stands were more filled...

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:17 AM
Kyra is one classy lady.

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:18 AM
Kyra just said she messed up the extended trot trying to keep him straight. He was shocked by too much contact. She's so cool.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:18 AM
If the next rider doesn't go pass Steffen he's going to get at least the bronze...So was Courtney robbed... Seriously placed 14th when two judges had her in first, one in thrid and one in 5th...

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:19 AM
Agreed - very classy of her to take responsibility for an error rather than blaming her horse.

Jasper'sMom
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:19 AM
Kyra is one classy lady.

Yes. :)

Does anyone else find the orange trim on Anky's coat a bit over the top? And to be fair, I'd feel that way if an American rode in with the old stars & stripes sewn into their collar, too. ;)

nomorecold
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
If the next rider doesn't go pass Steffen he's going to get at least the bronze...So was Courtney robbed... Seriously placed 14th when two judges had her in first, one in thrid and one in 5th...

Except this isn't the medal round. The top 15 have Freestyle to combine with these scores.

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
Oh, that last sidepass of anky's wasn't there at all. Gotta wonder how that was scored.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
Yes. :)

Does anyone else find the orange trim on Anky's coat a bit over the top? And to be fair, I'd fell that way if an American rode in with the old stars & stripes sewn into their collar, too. ;)

I love it but have been used to it from the jumper world..

Happy Feet
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
67.400 (13) 71.400 (3) 71.800 (1) 72.800 (1) 70.600 (5)

How do these riders not get completely frustrated with the politics.. Good for them to keep going:mad:

Absolutely. I am so proud of the two of them! What super riders on such lovely horses. They should be soo happy!!! Both of them on pretty green GP horses, They'll be back with a vengance in London.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:20 AM
If the next rider doesn't go pass Steffen he's going to get at least the bronze...So was Courtney robbed... Seriously placed 14th when two judges had her in first, one in thrid and one in 5th...

I feel so bad for her after that great ride. I loved how her piaffes were right on the spot and never traveled.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:22 AM
I feel so bad for her after that great ride. I loved how her piaffes were right on the spot and never traveled.

Ok so I didn't see it but I'm furious...:mad: I'm I wrong?

Jasper'sMom
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:24 AM
I love it but have been used to it from the jumper world..

True, I guess you do see it with the jumpers. Probably just that Anky irritates me. ;)

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:25 AM
True, I guess you do see it with the jumpers. Probably just that Anky irritates me. ;)

LOL well at least you can admit that:)

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:25 AM
"Ok so I didn't see it but I'm furious... I'm I wrong?"

No, I don't think so. She definitely deserved better.

Of course, I am sure Anky will get great marks for her ride, which looks so labored by comparison, imho.

Madeline
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:25 AM
Isn't Salinero making a lot of odd moves for a horse with his reputation?

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
orange is holland. they all have their collar have their national colors. That is not some showoffy 'Anky thing'. Jeez.

Some horses in every GPS class ALWAYS have errors based on confusing the test with the GP test. It is normal. Every error I am seeing is very, very minor in the scoring. They just aren't important things - a momentary break, etc. Especially not in a movement that consists of several parts.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:27 AM
Well I hope the U.S. judge plays the games like the German judge...Clearly wishful thinking....

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:28 AM
74.9 for Anky. What a surprise - NOT!!!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
I guess breaking to the canter is ok?

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
Who knows Dutch? I want to know what Anky and Sjef are saying!

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
That score was BS. Anky had only an ok ride. Steffen was perfect. Explain how that works? Oh yeah, politics. I remember Athens where her horse didn't piafe and kicked the board out at one point. They gave her an insane score.

I'm kind of hoping dressage gets eliminated from the olympics. The scoring's just stupid.

Stubborn Mare
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:29 AM
Anky is NOT happy about something.... wish I spoke Dutch! One does wonder about some of these scores though.

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:30 AM
Agreed - very classy of her to take responsibility for an error rather than blaming her horse.

Oh crap, I did not hear the whole thing!! I take back my earleir comment.

Anky was not that happy about her little canter steps. OOPS. Could not fully hear her exchange with Sjef, but wow. She should go have a drink or something.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:31 AM
Coming from the hunter/jumper world I don't think I gave the dressage riders enough credit with the Bull Sh*t they have to put up with:mad::no: I'm so irritated with Courtney's score I have a headache..

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:31 AM
Who knows Dutch? I want to know what Anky and Sjef are saying!

Someone get Coreene over here, lol.

Jasper'sMom
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:31 AM
orange is holland. they all have their collar have their national colors.

Yes, I know it is. That's why I made the comment about the stars & stripes. But really, I think it is just my auto-annoyance when I see Anky. I don't think she is horrible as some people on this forum do (I think), just get tired of the feeling that she she really needn't bother even riding the test..she should just be handed the gold. ;)

freestyle2music
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:32 AM
Isn't Salinero making a lot of odd moves for a horse with his reputation?

He will certainly have received 1 or 2 low marks, but many 9's and 10's must also be on the scoresheet. Anky is a master (like Isabell) in focussing on the movements which counts. And when you are famous of not having a good halt, it will score double when you have a good halt. Welcome to the world of dressage .

reprise
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:32 AM
I've lost touch with the link to the scores for today. Does anyone have it handy?

Home Again Farm
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
Courtney was robbed. Anke was handed brownie points. What a shame. :no:

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
Just goes to show, if you really have it out for someone, you can hate what they say even when you don't speak a word of their language.

Coreene maybe can translate, I could only get a few words, but from her expression and that little bit, it seemed like she was quite upset with herself. Salinero still got his treat and a pat, she is very clear about owning up to her own mistakes. She is very hard on herself based on the interviews and comments I've seen. It's fairly obvious in her autobiography too, she is very, very hard on herself.

A canter break would affect the score only very slightly. I have never seen a momentary thing like that affect a score much.

Snowhorse Farm
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
Shouldn't that have been a 0-2 for Anky's final halt?

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
Anky is NOT happy about something.... wish I spoke Dutch! One does wonder about some of these scores though.

The part where Salinaro wanted to break into canter. I sounded like Sjef was telling her what she should have done, but she was defending her approach (something about it already being too late). I speak Dutch, but they were not easy to understand. It almost sounded like she dropped the F bomb (under her breath) when she handed Salinero to her goom, but I hope I am mistaken. I wonder if they have any idea the camara's are that close??? (I guess not...)

Bugs-n-Frodo
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:34 AM
Anky seems to get an automatic EXTRA 5% just for being Anky. That was TOTALLY not a fair score. He was uneven in the extended canter, broke to canter... arrrgggg. I would LOVE to have an olympics WITHOUT HER! I wonder who they would glorify then? She does have some pretty perfect Passage/Piaffe transitions, but she also makes mistakes that tend to get over looked ALOT!

Nikki^
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:34 AM
Someone get Coreene over here, lol.
I know she said the "F" word lol.

Why such a high score? Her Piaffes were solid I can give her that but everything else seemed bland.

Even the crowd gasped a bit when her horse broked into the canter at the half pass. He even did it twice.

Next is the freestlye right?

Phyxius
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:35 AM
Who knows Dutch? I want to know what Anky and Sjef are saying!

I'm on my laptop and the speakers don't get that loud, but I heard something about the canter and she was definetly not happy. Nor was Sjef.

*edit to add...you guys type fast. :) I see this has already been answered!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:36 AM
I'm on my laptop and the speakers don't get that loud, but I heard something about the canter and she was definetly not happy. Nor was Sjef.

I guess even they thought they didn't deserve the score? Also, was that even a halt at the end?

Just curious....does anyone know what kind of life Salinero has outside of the ring?

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:36 AM
Yes. :)

Does anyone else find the orange trim on Anky's coat a bit over the top? And to be fair, I'd feel that way if an American rode in with the old stars & stripes sewn into their collar, too. ;)

Sheesj, it is just plain orange. Not stars and stripes. I see a lot of red, too. What is the big deal? Franky, I like when people show national pride, and would not care if the US riders had stars and stripes. Good to be proud of your country and show it!

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:37 AM
Poor Imke S-Bartels. I hope she is happy to see Lancet, a horse she trained and sold, going so well under Hindle. But still, it must be tough to sit out.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:38 AM
A canter break would affect the score only very slightly. I have never seen a momentary thing like that affect a score much.

Yes it would only affect the score slightly if your Anky or Isabell but God forbid you're someone else I bet it would affect the score a lot more that slightly..

Phyxius
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:39 AM
I guess even they thought they didn't deserve the score? Also, was that even a halt at the end?

Just curious....does anyone know what kind of life Salinero has outside of the ring?

That was closer to a halt that what they normally have. Halt would have to be Salinero's lowest score at every event, I think he regularly gets 4s and 5s on his halts, if I remember correctly.

akor
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:40 AM
Well, history will likely repeat itself in that the best ride will not win.

But, now, the drama, will Anky hold on? Wait, that's not drama, that's a sure bet.

One must get past it though, if you are to watch dressage these days. I had my "OMG - How can we all put up with this crap" moment at the World Cup in Vegas in 2004, Very defining moment for me. Now, I accept it. Sort of like the sunrise, it's going to rise rise every day.

I still want Anky, just for an experiment, to leap off the horse during a test, and see what happens. I'm thinking the rider score will move to 11 for incorporating something extra. They sure couldn't mark her DOWN for something...now, could they?

Acck. I wish I had a furball to hack up.

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:40 AM
Anky's score was pretty high for the magnitude of the mistake she made, but the rest of the ride was nice. I'm surprised she looked so upset by getting such a high score with such a mistake! Would love to understand what they're saying, too!

Ravel made balance mistakes - it was not a perfect ride. (those one tempis betweent he pirouettes were excellent!) But what can one expect for such a young horse?? In 4 years, if he stays sound and happy, he'll be spectacular.

The judging is about as mysterious as gymnastics and figure skating, in my opinion. If you really pay attention to details such as whether or not the gymnast has his/her feet together, toes pointed, no arch in the back, and the difficulty score for each little movement, then you have a good idea of the scoring. Dressage is that way, too. Sometimes the scores are a little high or a little low, but I don't think drastically.... personally.... I know that there are politics in judging for sure, but also, I think they know that the entire world is watching how they score with a magnifying glass right about now.

whitewolfe001
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:41 AM
Shouldn't that have been a 0-2 for Anky's final halt?

Let's see....

4 Insufficient
3 Fairly Bad
2 Bad
1 Very bad
0 Not executed

It was pretty much not executed, so yeah, I would say 0-2 would be a very appropriate score.

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:42 AM
Honestly the only thing I though Anky had over Steffen was that Salinero uses his hind end more in the piaffe.

Otherwise, their rides were the same for me.

I expected Anky to be perhaps 71% or 72% max. .....just because of who she is.

But not 74.9%. That's almost a 75 !

Good grief.

HORSEBACKRIDER
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:42 AM
International dressage judging calls to mind Russian ice dancing judging.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:42 AM
Anky is not going to win. But I don't see a medal for steffen unless something odd happens.

Heike kemmer is having a beautiful ride. Beautiful.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:43 AM
One must get past it though, if you are to watch dressage these days. I had my "OMG - How can we all put up with this crap" moment at the World Cup in Vegas in 2004, Very defining moment for me. Now, I accept it. Sort of like the sunrise, it's going to rise rise every day.

How true. I was there also, and the crowd reaction to the scores said it all! Seems like nothing is ever going to change though :-(

Phyxius
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:44 AM
Heike seems quite happy with her ride so far, I like the smile during the extended walk.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:44 AM
I think if Isabell has a good ride she will win and Anky will win freestyle.. Now if Anky does win the dutch can't bit*h about the German judges being out to get her.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:44 AM
I don't agree with you. The low marks are consistent, a canter break wouldn't affect ANYONE'S score that much (i once broke 3x in a class and still got a second place, it didn't affect the score in the least)

oops that first pir on the center line was weak.

akor
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
Anky should get 10s on some moves and 1-2 on others. But, she doesn't. Rather than getting "extra" points, I guess it might be that her scoring scale starts at a 6 as rock bottom and go from there. I think she is given an "8" in the judges heads and then any "small" or "large" error might be 0.5 or 1 point off. So, I do think they have a different scale in mind when the score her. It's the only thing that can explain some of the scoring to me.

Phyxius
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:46 AM
I think if Isabell has a good ride she will win and Anky will win freestyle.. Now if Anky does win the dutch can't bit*h about the German judges being out to get her.

Acutally, I'm not sure about her scores in the special but in the first round the DUTCH judge gave her the lowest scores.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:46 AM
I don't agree with you. The low marks are consistent, a canter break wouldn't affect ANYONE'S score that much (i once broke 3x in a class and still got a second place, it didn't affect the score in the least)

Ok I'm not talking about your level I'm talking about at this level where politics etc play into the scores. Can someone explain to me the 14th placing from the German judge..I didn't see courtney's ride yet.

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:49 AM
[quote=Mardi;3448041] Steffen's free walk with slack in the reins to show relaxation (Courtney did it too)....Anky hardly let go.
[quote]

it's not a free walk. There's supposed to be contact, actually.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:50 AM
Acutally, I'm not sure about her scores in the special but in the first round the DUTCH judge gave her the lowest scores.

The Dutch judge gave anky and Isabell the same score. On the other hand the German judge scored anky 3.5 points lower then Isabell.

RainyDayRide
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:51 AM
The results are at
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/resultsandschedules/rsc=EQX001200/index.html

altho' a couple of columns are cut off in my browser.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:51 AM
Thats right. I only saw part of steffens, there were things not right that i thought he was marked fair for.

For heaven's sake Ravel is a baby, if he doesn't get a medal who gives a fig, he was a very good horse about the whole thing, did it on very, very slim experience, and got better every day.

Good heavens, the heat is really bothering Isabel.

HOLY SHIT! It happened! Oh my god!

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:51 AM
I think if Isabell has a good ride she will win and Anky will win freestyle.. Now if Anky does win the dutch can't bit*h about the German judges being out to get her.

Actually, most of the Dutch were bitching about the German judge not judging the American riders fairly in the team competition, but oh well...

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
Actually, most of the Dutch were bitching about the German judge not judging the American riders fairly in the teqam competition, but oh well...

I agree but I have heard it about World Cup, WEG etc.

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:54 AM
That's gonna hurt! :(

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:54 AM
Wow, what happened?!?

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:56 AM
That's gonna hurt! :(

Maybe ;-)

Tucked_Away
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:57 AM
Wow, what happened?!?

Satchmo went backward and bounced around/crow-hopped in (what should have been) the piaffe...hard luck!

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:57 AM
oooh is anky going to take it?

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:57 AM
I don't know, I don't know really. It was not at a critical point, I do not really know it's going to change things...but I just can't tell...HOLY SHIT! That looked so bad for a second...


No Satchmo just got startled by something momentarily, she recovered asap...but I just don't know. Horses are not generally punished in scoring for doing that between movements like that.

No, by the replay I didn't see all of it, I must have looked away forr a second...what is it...

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:57 AM
I agree but I have heard it about World Cup, WEG etc.

Ah, gotcha...I did not get to watch those competitions, and did not follow the threads either. (That would just frustrate me too much...). I am just glad I get to watch it.

I do feel Courtney and Steffen should have had higher scored. But I am not qualified to say what they should have been.

Looks like Isabel has a couple of rough patches. HM.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:59 AM
No surprise there:)

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 11:59 AM
OOOHHH!! talking about team colors, I really like Satchmo's browband!

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:00 PM
That's gonna hurt! :(

I guess not!!! What BS.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:00 PM
I hope Steffen is thrilled with such a young horse and I hope Courtney's happy..

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:00 PM
Yes - Isabell!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:01 PM
OK, so I am obviously not a dressage person (H/J) but it's amazing to me that something that bad can happen and still be the top score.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:02 PM
I don't think so - the horse went on and performed the movement and continued the test perfectly. I'm not sure I've ever seen too many so cool under pressure and recover so fast.

AiryFairy
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:03 PM
A rear and bolt backwards gets you first place? This judging is EL SUCKO.

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:03 PM
I guess not!!! What BS.


Holy. cow.

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:03 PM
Steffen's free walk with slack in the reins to show relaxation (Courtney did it too)....Anky hardly let go.
[quote]

it's not a free walk. There's supposed to be contact, actually.

Article 403 The walk
. . .
4.3. Extended walk. The horse covers as much ground as
possible, without haste and without losing the regularity of his
steps, the hind feet touching the ground clearly in front of the
footprints of the forefeet. The rider allows the horse to stretch out
his head and neck without, however, losing contact with the
mouth.

4.4. Free walk. The free walk is a pace of relaxation in which the
horse is allowed complete freedom to lower and stretch out his
head and neck.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
I don't think so - the horse went on and performed the movement and continued the test perfectly.

Would that be the same for other riders? I think not...

foxhavenfarm
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
A rear and bolt backwards gets you first place? This judging is EL SUCKO.

Yep. :mad:

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
You could score a 0 on one movement and if the rest are of sufficient quality you will score well. Quite fair really! It tends to reward consistency AND correctness.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:04 PM
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky's horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.

foxhavenfarm
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky's horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.

Besides the fact that Satchmo looked a bit frazzled in the first part of his canter work.

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky's horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.

Exactly and that is what frustrates me...God I can't wait for the jumpers to start again....no politics:D

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
isabel had a fabulous ride except for one movement. Maybe she would have been in the 80s with that ride.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:07 PM
You could score a 0 on one movement and if the rest are of sufficient quality you will score well. Quite fair really!

Maybe. However, in aerobatics, which has a very similar scoring system, a 0 on a figure will put you totally out of the running unless everyone else gets VERY low scores. I don't see how such a gross disobedience should be able to beat what were very good tests by several other riders.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:08 PM
Besides the fact that Satchmo looked a bit frazzled in the first part of his canter work.

I also heard what appeared to be a kick at the boards at one point.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:08 PM
Yes, ridgeback, it's always like that - for everyone. I have had moments like that in a class and it affected scores not at all - not in the least. It has been that way for everyone for a very long time - because it's a basic, basic principle of dressage judging. She performed the movement. She recovered, she went on, it was fine.

This is not a western pleasure class, things like that are given very, very little emphasis. It was referred to in one judge's seminar article as 'a momentary instinctive reaction'. If the rest of the work is good, it is not going to be a major issue. For anyone. That's all there is to it. She evidently lost some points for it, but simply not alot, and all your conspiracy theories aside, I think that's exactly the way it should be.

Besides - I would bet anything she was on the road to get a 76 or even higher without that. She didn't get that. And she got her lowest score from the German judge.

JanM
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:08 PM
That wasn't disobedience-he's so talented he was doing the test backwards. She looked like an eventer after a bad landing for a second-those full seats must have stickum on 'em. I can't believe that she's in first after that.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:08 PM
Would that be the same for other riders? I think not...

Based on what exactly?

Elegante E
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
So, by the rule standards, extended walk has overstep. Someone should inform Anky of that bc her horse wasn't even stepping into his own tracks.

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
I'd have to agree with EquiBrit. What happened was not an instance for disqualification and negative marks are not awarded.

Even if she got a 0 for that piaffe, unless we saw the marks for all the movements there is no way to tell if Werth's score was warranted or no.

We just don't have all the info. I'd LOVE to see all the scores for each movement.

Eileen

KristiC
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky's horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.

Ummm did you see the rest of the test??? Watch it again. Do you think that one mistake is going to lower every other great score. The test was beautiful except for the spook.

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
Although, it is worth noting that scores do not carry over movement to movement. IMO, Anky and Isabell are supreme at leaving a bad movement behind them and moving on like nothing ever happened. There are alot of points to be accrued in the GP and the Special. I'd like to see the breakdown per movement for these rides. Second, these two riders always ride last - judges want to set them apart for their excellent riding by giving them higher scores. It would be interesting to see how they'd score if they went first and second in a field of 30 riders.

kkj
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
What it looked like to me was he didn't want to piaffe anymore came above, threatened to rear and then sort of ran backwards. Very disobedient and not a spook. Thats what I think it was. He is resenting having to piaffe. and that is why he kicked out in the first test.

Also did anyone see him sort of hit the railing (I could hear it) I think it was on a canter half pass if I remember correctly.

Otherwise a nice test, but I think the score was too high.

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:10 PM
So, by the rule standards, extended walk has overstep. Someone should inform Anky of that bc her horse wasn't even stepping into his own tracks.

IF you go through the FEI rulebook, you'll see a LOT of stuff that Anky isn't doing according to the rules, and yet she is scored as if she is.

That's my major b**** with it.

Eileen

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:10 PM
OK, guys and girls, let's all meet her tomorrow morning 4:15 PST, 7:15 EST for the rest of the team jumping competition!! No unfair judging to be had there! Woohoo! :D:yes: May the best win!

Santpoort
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:11 PM
Also did anyone see him sort of hit the railing (I could hear it) I think it was on a canter half pass if I remember correctly.



Yes, I noticed that too...

cottagefarm
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:12 PM
She (IW) could hae gotten anything from a 0-3 on that one movement and it also will affect the submission score but the rest of it was lovely.
There's 38 scored movements in the GP special that's a lot of make up scores where she probably got 8 & 9's


The trot half passes are co-efficients , which were fluid and forward
The other co's are for the ex. walk, one tempi's and the canter P's.


Courtneys ride should have been at least a 72 IMO. Anky's ride was def not worth what she got.
S.P' had a lovely fluid ride. that horse is going to be awesome :yes:

Sally

mjhco
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:12 PM
Maybe. However, in aerobatics, which has a very similar scoring system, a 0 on a figure will put you totally out of the running unless everyone else gets VERY low scores. I don't see how such a gross disobedience should be able to beat what were very good tests by several other riders.

The Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special have a great many movements.

Perhaps look at the test itself, score it with lots of 8s and 9s then perhaps a 2 for the movement with the acrobatics and see what score you come up with.

http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Organisers/Pages/Dressage_Tests.aspx

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:12 PM
What it looked like to me was he didn't want to piaffe anymore came above, threatened to rear and then sort of ran backwards. Very disobedient and not a spook. Thats what I think it was. He is resenting having to piaffe. and that is why he kicked out in the first test.

Also did anyone see him sort of hit the railing (I could hear it) I think it was on a canter half pass if I remember correctly.

Otherwise a nice test, but I think the score was too high.

Yes, as I posted above, I heard that hit also - it was pretty loud.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:14 PM
Yes, but he was just close to the boards, he didn't clip them because he had his haunches crooked, so again, it doesn't make any difference.

I'm sorry but you guys are just wrong. Egon is right. That was over a 76% ride, maybe even 80% as she said. It was stunning. She lost a little points on that movement alone.

You'd scream your head off if you did a perfect test with one glitch and got a crappy score - the fact remains, that is just not how dressage is judged. It's not a 'quietest horse' award. It just isn't.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:14 PM
OK, guys and girls, let's all meet her tomorrow morning 4:15 PST, 7:15 EST for the rest of the team jumping competition!! No unfair judging to be had there! Woohoo! :D:yes: May the best win!

Sounds good. I'll even bring mimosas for everyone :-)

FalseImpression
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:15 PM
International dressage judging calls to mind Russian ice dancing judging.

That is what I was going to post... except you can't blame a French judge this time !!! :) ;)

Regarding Isabel's ride: our commentators were just mentioning that the horse was fiddling with his bit and then it happened. So they thought he caught his tongue under the bit and then she gave him the signal to go into the next movement, and he got pinched. I know NOTHING about dressage and get bored after a few rides so I am just repeating what was said. It seems strange to me too that she kept such a high score, but the rest of the ride was beautiful and they both regained their cool pretty fast.

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:16 PM
The Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special have a great many movements.

Perhaps look at the test itself, score it with lots of 8s and 9s then perhaps a 2 for the movement with the acrobatics and see what score you come up with.

http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Organisers/Pages/Dressage_Tests.aspx

Thank you for that -- I was looking for the test.

So the walk was supposed to be extended, not a free walk.

Eileen

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:18 PM
Yes, but he was just close to the boards, he didn't clip them because he had his haunches crooked, so again, it doesn't make any difference.

I'm sorry but you guys are just wrong. Egon is right. That was over a 76% ride, maybe even 80% as she said. It was stunning. She lost a little points on that movement alone.

You'd scream your head off if you did a perfect test with one glitch and got a crappy score - the fact remains, that is just not how dressage is judged. It's not a 'quietest horse' award. It just isn't.

I'd have to agree with SLC.

Get the test from the link provided and rewatch the ride. Score as you will and see what you come up with. You'll see how the numbers forgive mistakes.

Eileen

Mardi
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:19 PM
God I can't wait for the jumpers to start again....no politics:D

At least not IN the ring ! :)

1derful
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:20 PM
The Grand Prix and Grand Prix Special have a great many movements.

Perhaps look at the test itself, score it with lots of 8s and 9s then perhaps a 2 for the movement with the acrobatics and see what score you come up with.

http://www.fei.org/Disciplines/Dressage/Organisers/Pages/Dressage_Tests.aspx

I wonder what Isabell got for that individual score. She is such a perfectionist. Every other rider would let that slight behind the bit go and be happy with the incorrectness. She tried to correct it and her horse over-reacted.

kkj
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
Yes, but he was just close to the boards, he didn't clip them because he had his haunches crooked, so again, it doesn't make any difference.

I'm sorry but you guys are just wrong. Egon is right. That was over a 76% ride, maybe even 80% as she said. It was stunning. She lost a little points on that movement alone.

You'd scream your head off if you did a perfect test with one glitch and got a crappy score - the fact remains, that is just not how dressage is judged. It's not a 'quietest horse' award. It just isn't.

I agree it was a beautiful test but I think his submission score should be dinged significantly. I do not think it was just a little glitch. What I see is a horse that wanted to get a lot more disobedient and a rider who is so skillfull that she kept him in control.

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
I agree. It was one movement and pros like Isabell know how it all works. It amazes me that she rebounded with such poise! The rest of the ride was fantastic.

I'm so happy for Heike Kemmer and Bonaparte! What a test!!!! Go B-line Hanoverians!!!!

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:22 PM
She could have got a zero for the whole damned movement from every judge and still won the class. Do le math.

FancyFree
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:23 PM
I have to admire how she just carried on, as if nothing happened. She's really grace under pressure. She rode a lovely test.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:23 PM
Ummm did you see the rest of the test??? Watch it again. Do you think that one mistake is going to lower every other great score. The test was beautiful except for the spook.


I agree, with the exception of some tension is some of the other movements, however, my point was not that her ride was bad, like I said, I love the horse, my point was that if it had been anyone but her or Anky, it would have severely reduced the score. To me, that is disobedience, isn't that one of the major things dressage is all about? Same for Anky's ride. I am actualyl more upset about Anky's score than Isabel's, Anky's score was totally unfair.

kkj
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:24 PM
I get that SLC and I don't have a problem with it. She otherwise had a beautiful test. Do we know what the judges scored him for submission, because while she is amazing and he is fabulous, I don't think he is as submissive as a lot of the less fabulous ones?

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:24 PM
So Dressage is more similar to figure skating? Where a routine with brilliant jumps but a major fall will beat a routine that is really good but not as extreme?

There's no reward for a horse that does it all right? I guess with the politics and all I thought dressage was similar to hunters. But a hunter that breaks stride (or heck, rears and runs backwards) will never beat a less-brilliant horse that trucks around - even with politics. I guess I learned my something new today.

akrogirl
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
I agree it was a beautiful test but I think his submission score should be dinged significantly. I do not think it was just a little glitch. What I see is a horse that wanted to get a lot more disobedient and a rider who is so skillfull that she kept him in control.

Exactly! How could she possibly get a decent submission score, with its x2 coefficient, after that blow up. Sorry, but that makes no sense.

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
No submission score is going to get 'dinged' much at all for a momentary brain fart in an otherwise 80% test! This is not a lady's hack class or western pleasure and it is simply not judged that way! This is referred to as a 'momentary instinctive reaction' and these things just DO NOT KILL YOUR DRESSAGE SCORE. If it happened over and over, YES, but once, NO. Not in this time-space dimension.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:26 PM
I guess that's why she wanted the jumbo screen turned off!

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:27 PM
Yes, ridgeback, it's always like that - for everyone. I have had moments like that in a class and it affected scores not at all - not in the least. It has been that way for everyone for a very long time - because it's a basic, basic principle of dressage judging. She performed the movement. She recovered, she went on, it was fine.

This is not a western pleasure class, things like that are given very, very little emphasis. It was referred to in one judge's seminar article as 'a momentary instinctive reaction'. If the rest of the work is good, it is not going to be a major issue. For anyone. That's all there is to it. She evidently lost some points for it, but simply not alot, and all your conspiracy theories aside, I think that's exactly the way it should be.

Besides - I would bet anything she was on the road to get a 76 or even higher without that. She didn't get that. And she got her lowest score from the German judge.

First I never said anything about conspiracy!!! A conspiracy would be if judges were making deals behind the scenes I was just pointing out that if riders had errors like that they would have been judged more harshly(JMO). Second the German judge DID NOT GIVE the lowest score...

yaya
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:27 PM
I also heard what appeared to be a kick at the boards at one point.

He didn't kick at them, just got too close and stepped on them.

kkj
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:28 PM
I don't think that was a momentary brain fart. The horse shows tension in the piaffe. He did in the first test too where he kicked out. He came above, threatened to rear and ran back. That is not a brain fart. That is a lack of submission. She is an amazing rider and did a very good job with it but it was a lack of submission.

cottagefarm
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:30 PM
As I posted before there are 38 scored movements. She blew one which would also effect the submission score but she also hit all the co-efficient movements, trot HP, EW, 1 tempi's, canter P's .

Sally

sascha
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:33 PM
...If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.
Sure it would have if they'd been aiming at 60's or very low 70 something. Do you actually think that judges go back and change scores once they are written down and entered? Given the work both before and after the 'spook' or the tongue bite or whatever it was, do you seriously think that a test which was probably scored as mostly 8's and 9's could be lowered to a 60 something in good conscience and while maintaining fairness to ALL competitors?

freestyle2music
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:34 PM
I think when Courtney learns to take Mythilus to the limit, and when Courtney learns to calculate that this might cost 1 or 2 lesser scores she will be battling for Gold in London. Mistakes that you and me see with Anky, Kyra, Isabelle etc.. are always mistakes in the so called "grey-area" . The riders mentioned are masters in earning the points where the points are.

On the other hand AND I MEAN THIS !! The USA should be very proud to have these two beautifull riders and horses, because these four are cleaning the way for the new generation to come. This new generation don't have to put the USA on the map of the judges anymore, because Steffen and Courtney already did this for them.

Theo

Stubborn Mare
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:34 PM
Sigh.... I am slightly disappointed but still optimistic that this Olympics is an improvement, because I think if you look down the order of placings there is more diversity there and more evidence of correctness being rewarded. However, it seems the medal hunt is still a bit skewiffy somehow.

On the subject of disobediences or breaks in gait, etc: at least in this country it is taken seriously and marked down. Obedience, forward impulsion and purity of gaits are paramount - however, WHY disobediences happen and how and where has a lot to do with the scoring - so you can't make broad brush statements like it does matter or it doesn't, and you must keep in mind that the GPS test is loooong with lots of marks and plenty of chances to move on and improve the overall average. Furthermore, the judges are seeing the test from lots of different angles and we only see one. Having said that, I guess I'm old fashioned.... I like to see freedom of gaits and relaxation as a prerequisite for all else, and that's not necessarily what I saw rewarded here today. I know some people say that sparkle or exuberance or what-have-you must be rewarded, and I agree - but I think that should come second to ease and harmony. (Some judges I know would agree with slc2 that this isn't Western Pleasure or Lady's Hack... but would say that in fact, submission and harmony are MORE important here, due to the battlefield heritage, and hence the separate coefficient score).

I do sometimes think that we need to decide whether or not dressage is truly a sport.... if there is such a difference in ability between the world's top three or four horse/rider pairs and everyone else, then it's no kind of sport.... the outcome is predetermined and unexciting. On the other hand, if there is a large-ish number of horses/riders of similar ability (say at least 10-15) then we should be able to get through an Olympics without being able to confidently predict the top two placings halfway through. Just my thoughts.

sascha
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:35 PM
I don't think that was a momentary brain fart. The horse shows tension in the piaffe. He did in the first test too where he kicked out. He came above, threatened to rear and ran back. That is not a brain fart. That is a lack of submission. She is an amazing rider and did a very good job with it but it was a lack of submission.
Ah, but the judges were not judging the first test today were they? They were judging what they saw presented in front of them today and today only.

vineyridge
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:38 PM
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

In the final scoring why wouldn't that have given IW damn close to a 0 on submission? And if it did (or should), how would that affect the total score?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:41 PM
So Dressage is more similar to figure skating? Where a routine with brilliant jumps but a major fall will beat a routine that is really good but not as extreme?

There's no reward for a horse that does it all right? I guess with the politics and all I thought dressage was similar to hunters. But a hunter that breaks stride (or heck, rears and runs backwards) will never beat a less-brilliant horse that trucks around - even with politics. I guess I learned my something new today.

Don't kid yourself it happens they just look down at their card real quick and act like they didn't see them break...might not happen as much but it does happen.:D

AiryFairy
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:44 PM
Honestly, this is discouraging. Anky's horse WAS uneven in some movements. Isabel was having a nice ride, I love Satchmo, but COME ON!!!! This is so dissapointing to watch. If ANYONE else's horse did that, you can bet the score would have been on the 60's. What crap.

Anky's horse broke to canter twice during the first trot half pass, and had zero engagement in the piaffe. Oh judges with blinders, and yet they have the gall to backstab other riders. Pathetic, I hope the US files a protest.

mjhco
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:44 PM
For those who are interested/intrigued by scoring dressage tests, I am sure there are "L" programs near you. Attend and audit. Find out what the judges are being taught. Give feedback on what you see and hear.

1derful
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:48 PM
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

In the final scoring why wouldn't that have given IW damn close to a 0 on submission? And if it did (or should), how would that affect the total score?

Because if submission is based on one movement, perhaps some of the judges picked the movement that showed 10 submission. ;-)

Talking about incorrectness in vaiours rides (not Isabell's): piaff with front legs not vertical (going under body); piaff without flexing the hip and stifle joints but just bending hocks; consistent short neck, behind the bit; extended trot hardly tracked up; collected trot with no front end lift and lowered hind end; - you covered the front legs, you'd see the hind end that is probably no better than your horse's working trot.

Roan
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:51 PM
Not trying to keep throwing the rules at everyone, just hoping that we can see where things are coming from by reviewing them --

These are the guidelines the judges are supposed to use:

Article 417 The submission / The impulsion

1. Submission does not mean a subordination, but an obedience
revealing its presence by a constant attention, willingness and
confidence in the whole behaviour of the horse as well as by the
harmony, lightness and ease he is displaying in the execution of
the different movements. The degree of submission is also
manifested by the way the horse accepts the bridle, with a light
and soft contact and a supple poll, or with resistance to or
evasion of the rider's hand, being either “above the bit” or “behind
the bit” respectively.

2. Putting out the tongue, keeping it above the bit or drawing it up
altogether, as well as grinding the teeth and swishing the tail are
mostly signs of nervousness, tenseness or resistance on the part
of the horse and must be taken into account by the judges in their
marks for the movement concerned as well as in the collective
mark for “submission” (No. 3).

3. Impulsion is the term used to describe the transmission of an
eager and energetic, yet controlled, propulsive energy generated
from the hind quarters into the athletic movement of the horse. Its
ultimate expression can be shown only through the horse's soft
and swinging back to be guided by a gentle contact with the
rider's hand.

4. Speed, of itself, has little to do with impulsion; the result is
more often a flattening of the paces. A visible characteristic is a
more pronounced articulation of the hind leg, in a continuous
rather than staccato action. The hock, as the hind foot leaves the
ground, should first move forward rather than being pulled
upwards, but certainly not backwards. A prime ingredient of
impulsion is the time the horse spends in the air rather than on
the ground; in other words, an added expression within the
paces, always provided that there is a clear distinction between
the collected trot and the Passage. Impulsion is, therefore, seen
only in those paces that have a period of suspension.

1derful
Aug. 16, 2008, 12:52 PM
I am most disappointed with Kyra and Max's score. Way too high for me. I missed Bernadette's ride. She and Vincent are always beautiful to watch and I can truly see the difference in the whole horse front and back for each of the movements.

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:01 PM
So when is the Freestyle? Can't seem to find it on NBC.com

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:03 PM
You guys sure know how to suck the joy out of everything.


I agree it was a beautiful test but I think his submission score should be dinged significantly.

For one movement? He did get dinged. He got a 6, I think. he probably merited an 8+ without that incident. It's not like he fought his way through the whole test. Elvis, for example, who had some things lovely(ie passage) had submission/contact issues throughout. Satchmo had a stellar test with one glitch and so how would you mark that? Generally, with one exception, his submission was perfection. :)

hansiska, freestyle is Tues. I am loving this live stream video on the internet. it's miraculous!

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:06 PM
I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders... they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell's horse didn't take out the fence... how awesome would that have been? ;)

yaya
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:09 PM
I do sometimes think that we need to decide whether or not dressage is truly a sport.... if there is such a difference in ability between the world's top three or four horse/rider pairs and everyone else, then it's no kind of sport.... the outcome is predetermined and unexciting. On the other hand, if there is a large-ish number of horses/riders of similar ability (say at least 10-15) then we should be able to get through an Olympics without being able to confidently predict the top two placings halfway through. Just my thoughts.

Does that mean swimming is not a sport when Michael Phelps is on the startlist?

(Yes, I KNOW swimming is not subjective! Same outcome, though)

1derful
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:11 PM
I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders... they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell's horse didn't take out the fence... how awesome would that have been? ;)

While watching diving, I was joking that not only the top and bottom scores needed to be dropped, and a judge who got dropped more than 50% should be banned from judging for a year.

Perhaps more judges are needed for the dressage tests and same drop score rule can apply.

I can just see the test entry fee be $1k for that 6-8 minutes. :-(

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:12 PM
I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders... they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell's horse didn't take out the fence... how awesome would that have been? ;)


You are an idiot.

capricorn
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:13 PM
Which ones made it to the freestyle?

1derful
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:16 PM
Long-form rewind is up... signing off...

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:22 PM
You are an idiot.

And you are clearly disturbed!!!

candico
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:23 PM
I think I saw it somewhere, but who is the judge at E? Just seemed way off on Courtney's score... I agree with Theo on these four being an exciting glimpse to what is ahead for dressage. Courtney is sooo elegant and tactful in her riding and with more confidence in her own ability she is going to be brilliant and hopefully an inspiration to all. And Steffen is just magic with all the horses he rides.

That said, I'm also rooting for Balagur!

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:26 PM
Which ones made it to the freestyle?

The top 15 on this list:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/resultsandschedules/rsc=EQX001200/index.html

As the #15 rider, Ashley Holzer just made it!

The judge at E is the German judge. Check out the link I posted and scroll down for the judges.

frugalannie
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:27 PM
Can someone explain how one can go back and see the rides that were missed? I assume it's somewhere on the NBC website, but I can't seem to figure it out.

RunningwaterWBs
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:29 PM
Go here, then scroll down to the videos. Click on "See more equestrian video":
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/index.html

justalittlex
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:35 PM
So Dressage is more similar to figure skating? Where a routine with brilliant jumps but a major fall will beat a routine that is really good but not as extreme?

There's no reward for a horse that does it all right? I guess with the politics and all I thought dressage was similar to hunters. But a hunter that breaks stride (or heck, rears and runs backwards) will never beat a less-brilliant horse that trucks around - even with politics. I guess I learned my something new today.

my thought exactly.

vineyridge
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:37 PM
Well, one good thing--the riders in the top 15 are from so many different nations that no country has to drop a rider from the freestyle. :)

akor
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:42 PM
Wow! A faceoff between who can have the best ride that INCLUDES a major disobdience!

I think it's clear, in that case, why IW is first at the moment. Anky has been beat at her own game! I hadn't thought of that angle, maybe it really did work to IW's advantage;)

So, if you are in 3rd/4th, are you scurrying about trying to find music to match a buck, then schooling your horse for such an event?

I'm too old to appreciate this "new" dressage. But, it makes for fun internet chatter!

J-Lu
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:57 PM
I think if people took the time to understand how the technical aspects of dressage are scored and looked at the point distribution in the actual GP and GPS test, they might have a better understanding of the outcome.

On that note, I'd pay money to watch anyone tell Gary Rockwell in person that he robbed Courtney and Steffen by inflating Isabell's and Anky's scores. ;)

Stubborn Mare
Aug. 16, 2008, 01:58 PM
Does that mean swimming is not a sport when Michael Phelps is on the startlist?

(Yes, I KNOW swimming is not subjective! Same outcome, though)

Interesting. You're right of course, but I think that in general (not being a swimming fan) Phelps is a historical anomoly - and an individual, not a country. Take that one individual out of the equation and you have a more level playing field. There will always individuals who dominate throughout their career, and every sport needs stars. But why is it with dressage the stars only come from certain stables, and they are untouchable by everyone else? Again, I'm not saying that it's necessarily about nationality (though it may be), but I saw far too much tension in the top placed tests for my liking. It just doesn't make sense to me but I suppose that's why I'm not an O judge yet.

Still, we have a truly international freestyle comp and that's something to celebrate!!

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:15 PM
So - what was that thing Mythilus was doing with his left front foot in the passage?

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:21 PM
Looked like the Cha-Cha. Got him some extra points, I'm sure.

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:28 PM
Looked like his leg was totally relaxed and hanging loose from the knee. He was not the only one. I don't think it was a fault though, is it?

If so, why?

slc2
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:32 PM
The hooves are supposed to point the toe right at the ground (rather than fetlocks being curled up tightly). That indicates relaxation.

dressagetraks
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:39 PM
I just watched Courtney, Steffen, Anky, and Isabell on rewind during lunch. Will watch the rest later. Here are my lower level thoughts, which with $4 will get you a gallon of gas. :)

Courtney - She is going to be fantastic. This horse is marvelous, too; love him. They look like a top pair to me who aren't QUITE totally there yet, but boy will she be great in 2010 and 2012. I love her reactions, too, and her feeling for her horse. She really seems to have a good partnership and a lot of appreciation for her beastie.

Steffen - Man is this horse talented. Not as good as he will be (2010 anybody?), but awesome ride. I was surprised on the scores on this one. Would have had him in second of these four.

Anky - She just doesn't look happy to me this Olympics. The waves to the crowd are there, yeah, but she doesn't seem like she's enjoying it as much as she has in the past. She seems to be working more than usual to ride him, too, team and today. My humble impression. Salinero had several rough spots and doesn't always track up. I was surprised on the scores here, too. Or actually, I was not, but I would have liked to have been. Judging from my computer and admitting that the worst rider there could ride rings around me, I still think Steffen had a better test than Anky today.

Isabell - My first reaction at the piaffe was OH CRAP!!! It really looked bad. But Isabell officially gets my nerves of steel award for the Olympics. To go on, and to do another piaffe right after that one. I really can learn a lot from watching top riders make mistakes and just recover and go on. That moment aside, though, it looked like a very good, very smooth test. She went for more in extensions today than in team. It was jarring there for a moment, but I do agree with the score and with her being in first, based on the rest of the test. If he'd had another moment like that, repeated offenses, nope. But that one movement did not cancel the whole rest of the test. I think they deserved a lousy score there, but I also think it was a great test otherwise. Her score was fair. Anky's wasn't. Steffen's wasn't.

JMHO. :)

danceronice
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:42 PM
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

Old system, yes. In the new skating scoring system there are so many different deductions possible, you can have a fall and still beat a clean skate with a lower degree of difficulty or more small errors in execution. (For reference, look at the ladies' skating from Torino 06--Sasha Cohen and Irina Slutskaya had more falls and errors than Fumie Suguri, the fourth-place finisher, in fact Sasha hit the ice twice, but both also had more difficult elements--higher spin values, higher grade of execution marks on footwork, etc. They racked up enough points that even with some serious errors, they still came out ahead of Fumie. The only "clean" program on the podium was gold, with Shizuka Arakawa and some argued she dumbed it down a little by taking out her triple-triples to avoid risking deductions for underrotating.)

Admittedly, many people now hate this, because while the average figure skating TV viewer (as opposed to obsessive fan) can't tell a level one spin from a level three, everybody knows what a butt plant looks like. They had to change a little how jumps were being called because some people (*cough*Jeff Buttle*cough*) were being given 0 or POSITIVE grades of execution for managing to rotate a quad in the air--even when they fell on the landing. That meant they still got points for a quad. (Now falls are downgraded.)

Dressage, IIRC, is scored in a similar way--you can have a major flaw on an element, but if everything else on the test has a high score, you could conceivably beat someone who was clean overall but whose scores were only middling.

La Gringa
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:44 PM
Isabell has to have the most composure of any rider I have seen, to come back so smoothly after her horse lost it.. I think she deserves the score she got. I did think her test over all, even with the mistake, was the best.

Beautiful to watch...

:)

grayarabpony
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:46 PM
For those of you who think tension can't cause unevenness, did you check out the first part of Anky's test? :lol: I thought she finished up well though. Salinero looks much better than he did 4 years ago.

Isabella Werth's test was gorgeous except for that one piaffe. I was holding my breath, thinking oh my gosh he's going to back out of the arena! But they recovered very well. I LOVE her horse!!

barncreature
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:51 PM
I just watched Courtney, Steffen, Anky, and Isabell on rewind during lunch. Will watch the rest later. Here are my lower level thoughts, which with $4 will get you a gallon of gas. :)

Courtney - She is going to be fantastic. This horse is marvelous, too; love him. They look like a top pair to me who aren't QUITE totally there yet, but boy will she be great in 2010 and 2012. I love her reactions, too, and her feeling for her horse. She really seems to have a good partnership and a lot of appreciation for her beastie.

Steffen - Man is this horse talented. Not as good as he will be (2010 anybody?), but awesome ride. I was surprised on the scores on this one. Would have had him in second of these four.

Anky - She just doesn't look happy to me this Olympics. The waves to the crowd are there, yeah, but she doesn't seem like she's enjoying it as much as she has in the past. She seems to be working more than usual to ride him, too, team and today. My humble impression. Salinero had several rough spots and doesn't always track up. I was surprised on the scores here, too. Or actually, I was not, but I would have liked to have been. Judging from my computer and admitting that the worst rider there could ride rings around me, I still think Steffen had a better test than Anky today.

Isabell - My first reaction at the piaffe was OH CRAP!!! It really looked bad. But Isabell officially gets my nerves of steel award for the Olympics. To go on, and to do another piaffe right after that one. I really can learn a lot from watching top riders make mistakes and just recover and go on. That moment aside, though, it looked like a very good, very smooth test. She went for more in extensions today than in team. It was jarring there for a moment, but I do agree with the score and with her being in first, based on the rest of the test. If he'd had another moment like that, repeated offenses, nope. But that one movement did not cancel the whole rest of the test. I think they deserved a lousy score there, but I also think it was a great test otherwise. Her score was fair. Anky's wasn't. Steffen's wasn't.

JMHO. :)

Wow, I know zero, nada, ziltch, nothing about dressage, but am an old ex-ballerina, and love to watch dressage because it looks like the horses are doing ballet....anyway, I just watched all you talked about above and totally think that the guy (steffen) did way better than the Anky woman. (i've never heard of any of these people).

Just my humble uneducated, sittin' in the peanut gallery, opinion.

FAW
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:51 PM
Several have asked this question with no answer..

WHEN is the freestyle?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:53 PM
Question: Is the special and freestyle worth 50% each to come up with the individual Gold, Silver and bronze medal?

ridgeback
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:56 PM
Several have asked this question with no answer..

WHEN is the freestyle?

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/EQ.shtml

keep this link so you can see the scores etc!!

buryinghill4
Aug. 16, 2008, 02:59 PM
Balagur is a joy to watch. So happy in his work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqf9WzdxvY

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 16, 2008, 03:15 PM
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.


Actually, that is incorrect. There was that somewhat scandalous judging incident that gave a Russian pair the Gold medal, despite a fall, over a Canadian pair that was also brilliant but did not fall. And following a protest, both pairs were awarded gold.

That said, I do not think the spook was akin to a skater falling. It is more like a skater hesitating off the ground and taking an awkward step, or a gymnast taking a big step on landing. Those are not fatal errors.

And I am very, very impressed by Isabelle Werth's ability to immediately get past an error and no give up or get rattled. There was some beautiful riding there, imo.

Bugs-n-Frodo
Aug. 16, 2008, 03:38 PM
Actually, like I said before, the test score that REALLY upsets me is Anky's. Isabell's score, IMO, should have been lower than it was, but I still think her test was very nice, well ridden and had that extra pizazz to it. Anky's score was ridiculous! The thing I liked the most about her test was her passage/piaffe transitions, all but one of them was just about perfect. Isabell is a wonderful rider with composure that I admire. I DO think Steffen's test should have scored better. You KNOW Anky will get an outrageous score for the freestyle, she always does. I hope one or both of our USA riders will push too and get a great score. If Isabell got the gold, I would not have a problem with it, but if Anky gets it, I will be so disappointed, so far, this has not been a gold medal olympics for her.

TeddyRocks
Aug. 16, 2008, 04:19 PM
Ummm did you see the rest of the test??? Watch it again. Do you think that one mistake is going to lower every other great score. The test was beautiful except for the spook.

I just watched all the rides that I missed before (last group)... As far as Isabel goes, I agree that the test rocked except for the spook/bit issue/whatever it was... And I think IW handled it perfect, and I think if we got to see the test, the scores afterwards would be higher than the scores before the incident. He was electric! And of course I'm sure she got nines or 10's on her trot half passes... (I hope)... They are heaven... And if you put in a two for that movement and everything else 8's (and we know some of the scores were higher than 8's), then if my math is correct, the score was too low... not wanting to start a battle. My math may be wrong.

I dont think Anky's ride today was great. Her team ride was much better in my opinion... So the score was much too high. Just didn't look like anything about the ride was teamwork...

Steffan should have beat her score. It was dazzling. What a horse. What a team. And Courtney (Miss Cool) Dye, and the darling Mythlius should have been right there also... Watch out 2012!!!

And I had never seen Heike and Bonaparte before these games, and that team will and should be giving everyone a run for their money. VERY nice..

GO USA!!!

J Lav
Aug. 16, 2008, 04:29 PM
Anky should get 10s on some moves and 1-2 on others. But, she doesn't. Rather than getting "extra" points, I guess it might be that her scoring scale starts at a 6 as rock bottom and go from there. I think she is given an "8" in the judges heads and then any "small" or "large" error might be 0.5 or 1 point off. So, I do think they have a different scale in mind when the score her. It's the only thing that can explain some of the scoring to me.

Actually in the GP the other day I can tell you that Anky's marks went from a 3 (for the final halt) to 9's and she had 4's, 5's 6's 7's and 8's as well. But when there are alot more 8's and 9's then there are 3's and 4's then your score will still be high.

J. Turner
Aug. 16, 2008, 05:10 PM
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

In the final scoring why wouldn't that have given IW damn close to a 0 on submission? And if it did (or should), how would that affect the total score?


I love Michelle Kwan, but she has stood in first or second after the short program even with a fall, I believe. Of course it depends on the kind of fall. If she didn't complete a combination that would be brutal. But she is so brilliant and steady and correct (at the same time, which is hard to achieve) at the same time.

Unfortunately her skating didn't work as well in the new scoring system which places more emphasis on being Gumby-ish (Ie - how often and for how long one can hold ones foot above ones head) rather than on skating (edges, etc.) Of course her hip couldn't hold up to the triple-triples (especially the loop motion). That hip also hampered her in the layback spin which emphasizes back and hip flexibility - her weakness. If she had been younger, she might have more energy and time to adapt. But look at the sport without her - to me it's awful.

Anyhow - in skating they post the protocols - scores for each movement. Do they do that here. I know the flash them in the stadium. Not really fair we can't see them.

Eyemadonkee
Aug. 16, 2008, 05:13 PM
You are an idiot.

It is a pleasure to have you on the boards.

Mike Matson
Aug. 16, 2008, 05:16 PM
The freestyles are Tuesday morning 7:15 a.m. ET.

sascha
Aug. 16, 2008, 05:19 PM
Oh yes, Uranass, I agree wholeheartedly. Eggy writes with lovely clarity and in such a concise and refreshing manner.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 05:54 PM
Eggy - you'll get deleted. I did for EXACTLY the same words. This is one opinion you are not allowed to express here!

BLBGP
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:12 PM
Like I said before, I didn't realize how it was all scored. I guess I always assumed something relatively major (from my perspective) like breaking to the canter or rearing and running backwards was akin to knocking down a rail in the jumpers. A bummer of a momentary mistake that puts you out of contention, even though the rest was great. It seems odd that a performance with a major mistake could beat an Olympic-quality horse who didn't have a major mistake. It's not like Salinero and Satchmo are up against backyard nags. Or, from a dressage perspective, are they?

I get the point system now. Still seems odd to me, but I get it. I just never know a horse without something as simple as a halt could still win win win because of the point system. Has it always been this way?

I will say that besides that little, um, glitch, Satchmo did look pretty amazing.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:15 PM
Has it always been this way?


Yes.

Equibrit
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:21 PM
Which would you rather have win;

A test with 88% brilliance and 12% crap, which would look fantastic with an unfortunate error.

or

A test with all of it 76% of good, which would look pretty average.

grayarabpony
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:49 PM
I thought Anky was scored too high.

CBoylen
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:51 PM
Like I said before, I didn't realize how it was all scored. I guess I always assumed something relatively major (from my perspective) like breaking to the canter or rearing and running backwards was akin to knocking down a rail in the jumpers.
I was actually thinking it was interesting that so many of these recent dressage discussions seem to debate the same ideas that people unfamiliar with the hunter ring have trouble understanding. One missed movement seems to be akin to the one deepish jump or the swap at the fence that turn a top hunter's 95 round into an 88, even though they still win because they're the most quality horse in the class and the rest of the trip was just that good.
Someone (apologies, I can't remember the poster) said something on the other dressage thread about how sometimes it's expression over obedience in dressage, and I was really looking forward to using that the next time I was explaining the hunter ring to a dressage person ;).
I can't really visually pick out what is better here, but the scoring makes sense to me.

grayarabpony
Aug. 16, 2008, 06:52 PM
Well, I would have been sick if Isabella Werth had gone backward through the arena siding, but can we try to keep from namecalling? Although that can be difficult if not wellnigh impossible.

egontoast
Aug. 16, 2008, 07:16 PM
sorry folks, I should not have posted what I was thinking. :no:

Poor sportsmanship is just so very unpleasant. How's that? better?