Bolting

[WilfredLeblanc]

Ok, so the horse I lease--a 5 yr. old Belgian X TB--is a splendid fellow in many, many respects. I love him to pieces, actually. He's been through BN level with his owner, minds his aids very nicely for the most part, but does have a wee problem: There's a particular hill at our barn that he really likes to approach at Mach 4 without any prompting. If I put some leg on and ask him to canter, he generally does as he's asked, but on three or four occasions he has exceeded his mandate significantly, locked up in a racetrack gallop, shot off the trail, crashed through the thicket, and sent me tumbling. Possible mitigating circumstances include our being totally alone on one occasion, and him seeing other horses going up the hill ahead of us on another, but I think there's really no excuse for this bolting crap, either way.

My trainer's current response has been to put him in a Kimberwicke the size of a tire iron. Indeed, this has the desired effect of installing very effective brakes. But the horse--we'll call him Ralph--seems to be stressed by it, too.

Somehow, I feel like we're taking a step back. Ralph definitely has a tendency to get emotional and does need something to correct him, but I felt like the best behavior I've gotten from him resulted from spending a lot of time doing lengthening and collecting exercises--letting his head out and reeling it back in at walk, trot, and canter. Do we just continue on like this using the Kimberwicke? When would be the right time to let Ralph have his happy bit back? Or is there a better way to curb the bolting habit?

My trainer is outstanding, mind you, but her barn is a three-ring circus most afternoons, with many more advanced and fairly serious competitors than I, and she has little time to focus on my particular situation outside of our weekly lesson, so I want to learn to solve Ralph's problems on my own as much as possible.

Thanks!

[Ajierene]

I have had horses that have had issues with this in varying degrees.

Another issue I had was a draft (percheron) that I was asked to work with. He could canter, but not turn so he would essentially take off across the backyards of the neighborhood the lady lived in.

My mare is usually a lovely thoroughbred, but her stride is much bigger than the lesson horses where she lives. When we were leading a trail ride through a small piece of woods behind the ring, she got rather annoyed that I wasn't giving her her head. We started doing some shoulder fore and sidepassing type issues.

It sounds like your horse does not like his bit - take it out. Work on some dressage type moves. Work on serpentines and some leg yielding and transitions.

Start in the ring, then move out to the field. Asking him to serpentine or leg yield left and right up the hill at a walk or trot. Basically you are finding a way to get him to keep his attention on you and not what else is going on. You need to be a bit proactive - if you know there are going to be horses cantering up the hill - say you are in a group trail ride - start asking for bending and moving before you get to the hill, then keep working on it as you move up the hill - verbal praise for paying attention to you is always good as well. The running through the thicket was likely caused by his drafty braking and turning issues - kind of like a truck takes longer to brake and takes wider turns than a little sports car.

Anyway, hope that was helpful. Have fun!

[quietann]

Based on my very limited experience, and having a mare who has been known to bolt (usually after a jump), I think your instincts are spot on -- work on transitions, responsiveness, etc. And possibly try a couple of other bits since "stronger" is not always "better."

My little mare, well, she is back at Step 1 basic dressage training, being treated as if she is green (even though she's not.) And eventually we will be doing the same thing with jumping -- start with ground poles and work up, only move up when she is calm. All this is being done by a trainer right now as I am injured and unable to ride.

I do wonder though, why that particular hill? Do other horses tend to bolt there?

good luck!

BTW -- could you post a link to a photo of your guy, just for fun? Here's my girl: http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/2008-05-16/turnout1.jpg

[Lucassb]

For a horse like this, I might try a 3 ring bit with two reins. One rein is attached to the snaffle ring (and you could easily use a happy mouth mouthpiece if he likes them.)

The other rein is attached to the lower ring. It remains inactive unless he ignores the snaffle rein... an voila, you have brakes he wasn't aware of. ;)

Sort of the best of both worlds, if you will. It will teach him that even wearing the bit he can be relaxed and comfortable in ... he can be kept under control at all times.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Might be too simple but my response is don't canter up that hill. Make him walk.

He's learned a bad habit...that he can run up that hill. Don't let him...and don't encourage it by trying to canter or even trot. If he starts to get quick, make him circle....make him walk back down. Walk a few steps, halt, walk forward again....walk in serpentines making him bend. Don't even consider going faster than a walk until you can calmly walk up the hill.

It is not an uncommon issue....it is not an issue of bits....it is a BAD habit and one that many people teach their horses. Can't tell you how many times I have had to undo this habit and it isn't a pretty thing to do. Lesson for others to learn...do not always canter up a hill...it will often quickly turn into this sort of habit.

[asterix]

I agree with bornfree.

Also, I have a horse who is Belgian/TB on one side (Old/Tb on the other) -- my baby in the profile, and I had to chuckle a bit in recognition.

My horse can bolt, every now and again, with really no provocation. Bonus points for doing it in a particularly QUIET place (or his own field, which he lives in 24/7). He is an angel at shows, in places with a lot of activity (screaming children jumping off a trampoline into a lake, for example). But sometimes it's like his imagination gets the better of him, and he's big and strong.

However. My horse goes in a snaffle and even when he does this, I can stop him within a few strides. So you have a bigger problem here, obviously.

I do NOT think a giant bit is the way to go. these guys are sensitive and smart, and do not generally take well to being bullied (cf. trailer loading, failure of, vs. trailer loading, success of -- coercive techniques, NO. Allowing a moment for snuffling of trailer, patting of head, and taking ownership of the idea, YES.).

Do what bornfree said. Do NOT set him up for failure or punishment. Set him up for success. Walk, but keep him busy. When that is a success, try trotting. Keep him busy. If he squirts away from you, discipline him once, return to the scene of the crime, and make him get busy, calmly and slowly. I once had to circle and practice all our fun new lateral movements about 15 times before he heaved a big sigh and gave it up.

Give him something positive to replace the negative behavior, and make a fuss over him when he does the right thing.

These horses are very cool, but you've got to go about things in the right way or they can really shut down on you. And then they are just big ;)

[WilfredLeblanc]

The running through the thicket was likely caused by his drafty braking and turning issues - kind of like a truck takes longer to brake and takes wider turns than a little sports car.

I think you're dead-on there. Another person who rode him made the same observation, but didn't make the link to his draft blood.

[WilfredLeblanc]

I do wonder though, why that particular hill? Do other horses tend to bolt there?

I'll have to ask around, but none of the others have a reputation for it, at least.

Another thing that occurs to me is that he might feel like he has to run that fast to make it up to the turn comfortably. At a mere canter he seems to have a slightly harder time with it.

I'll see if I can't post a pic.

Thanks to all for being so helpful!

[Shortstroke]

Over the years we have dealt with several ponies who bolted and what we found was extremely effective was to make them keep going and when they wanted to slow down keep them galloping until they were really tired. We found you had to do this on both leads for them to get the picture. We had one horse who bolted after the jumps and it took 3 times of galloping many times around a large field (a late August afternoon in GA)before he quit doing it but then he never has bolted after a jump again. When they realize that the behaiviour is not only uneffective but also results in hard work, they cut it out. We've never had this not work. However, we have not tried it with a TB but then we haven't had a TB who bolted.

[Hilary]

Another agreeing with Bornfree- you taught him to gallop up that hill, now you need to teach him that he can also walk and trot up the hill. They love to go fast up hills. They learn very quickly "ohh!! here's were we go FAST".

This isn't about bits, this is about him doing what you want, and probably you have to walk up that hill a lot. Then trot. Do transistions from walk to trot back to walk. When he can do that without getting excited as him to canter. If he's rude, immediately walk .

I've taught a couple of my horses to bolt up the hill we used to think was fun to canter up, and it's a pain, but it's my own fault.

[Ajierene]

Shortstroke has a good idea - except the lack of turning ability and running into the thicket issue....makes putting it into practice a bit difficult.

Something you mentioned triggered another thought. He's only 5, he most likely lacks muscles, which means the hill is hard. On the other hand walking/trotting up the hill will be great for those muscles. Just something else to think about.

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

I have an enormous haffy who had an very naughty bolting problem when I bought him. His bolting would come from a spook usually, but he could also go mock 10 for no apparent reason at all. My former trainer had us keep going when he'd bolt until he wouldn't want to go anymore. (She also had me spank him when he would stop :rolleyes:) I found this to be very uneffective. Possibly b/c of the spanking, but also I think b/c it would take so long for him before we'd stop he wasn't seeing the cause and effect of why I was not letting him stop to begin with.
I was refered to my current trainer, by a member of this BB when I posted and was appropriately flamed for a post about a 15 min bolt in which I had zero control out in the woods.

Here's what I've done...
The big picture/problem was I could not get Duke to steer, stop or go (100% of the time) when I asked no matter where we were. (Ring, trail, field...) So we really, really have worked on this non-stop. We've done a lot of transitions such as halt to trot, trot to halt with no steps of walk (4 times on a 20 meter circle)...these have really helped enormously. We also do these from halt to canter, canter to halt with no steps of trot, too.
When Duke has bolted in recent times, although these are becoming exceedingly rare and certainly not mock 10 anymore, I am to hold my line no matter what. We go exactly where I planned.
Working through these exercises have really helped me become a better, more precise rider, too.

I think it's pretty typical to want to bit up a bolter. My haffy came to me in a kimberwick. I am really proud to say we went cross country schooling in our boucher the other day and there were no "rapid accelerations". My goal is to get him to hunt in the boucher this fall. (We usually hunt in a mylar)

I also don't buy into the bigger drafty types need more room to stop/turn as they're more like mack trucks than sports cars. To me that's making an excuse for them. My horse needs to be responisive to what I'm asking when I'm asking for it...no matter what his breed/type. That's really just to keep us both safe.

[WilfredLeblanc]

Another agreeing with Bornfree- you taught him to gallop up that hill, now you need to teach him that he can also walk and trot up the hill. They love to go fast up hills. They learn very quickly "ohh!! here's were we go FAST".

Well, if anything, the owner "taught" him to do that and he came to me this way.

This isn't about bits, this is about him doing what you want, and probably you have to walk up that hill a lot. Then trot. Do transistions from walk to trot back to walk. When he can do that without getting excited as him to canter. If he's rude, immediately walk .

Actually, walking and trotting up the hill, working on the transitions, and getting the trust level back up is what I did following episode #1, and he became very cooperative. Consequently, I was pretty surprised by episode #2. So it sounds like I should just keep reinforcing the earlier lessons.

The Kimberwicke does do wonders for the brakes, but I don't want to keep upping the ante. I want to get him back to his happy bit as soon as possible.

And don't get me wrong, Memphis (his real name) really is a good boy on the whole--just a little emotional.

[WilfredLeblanc]

. . . what we found was extremely effective was to make them keep going and when they wanted to slow down keep them galloping until they were really tired. We found you had to do this on both leads for them to get the picture.

The version of this at my barn is to ride up and down the hill in 20 meter circles until the horse hyperventilates.

[WilfredLeblanc]

BTW -- could you post a link to a photo of your guy, just for fun?

Hey, quietann! Here's a picture of me and Memphis working out:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc122/fwhiteiv/Dad279.jpg

You'll note that I'm such a pituitary case (6'4/200 lbs.) that this 16.5 hand horse looks barely in proportion to me!

[quietann]

heee! He is an adorable horse and looks like a lot of fun. Good luck with him!

(My brother's 6'4" and about 180 lbs so I know from tall men! I am 5'1" and 150... we are not genetically related...)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Well, if anything, the owner "taught" him to do that and he came to me this way.



Actually, walking and trotting up the hill, working on the transitions, and getting the trust level back up is what I did following episode #1, and he became very cooperative. Consequently, I was pretty surprised by episode #2. So it sounds like I should just keep reinforcing the earlier lessons.

The Kimberwicke does do wonders for the brakes, but I don't want to keep upping the ante. I want to get him back to his happy bit as soon as possible.

And don't get me wrong, Memphis (his real name) really is a good boy on the whole--just a little emotional.


LOL...it takes a LONG time to break them of that habit....and they learn that habit REALLY FAST. If he is only bolting in that situation, then I think you really just need to stay with the walk and trot work for a while on that hill....and be careful cantering up other hills. Then, I might start by letting him canter a few strides and bring him back...but really, I have a mare that came with that habit and there are some hills I didn't go faster than a trot for a year....and when breaking her of the habit, we had a few heated "discussions". Now that she is at prelim....I can canter up any hill and rate her...but she is much more schoolled now.

[WilfredLeblanc]

Well, we're off for schooling at Twin Rivers tomorrow, so we'll see. Today, he was a perfect gentleman when we were doing stadium fences, but this will be the first time I've ridden him on a bona fide XC course. At my barn, we have the mock XC set up around the perimeter of the dressage ring--not an inch of wasted ground there!--so I've been over logs and chicken coops and so on with him, just not in a wide-open space.

[asterix]

Hey, let us know how it goes! He's CUTE!!! One other thing (not a major factor in the bolting, but a minor one, probably, and useful in general) to think about: these guys take a while to mature, physically, and for a long time pulling is easier than pushing. They are slow to learn to use their hind ends and quite strong early on with their front ends.

So keep that in mind with all his work -- "apparent" speed is not the same as impulsion, and asking him to slow down and use his hind end doing anything will be hard and a work in progress -- but a REALLY important thing to work on, if you want him to end up in a year as a horse who can balance himself, use himself, and not just drag himself around with his shoulders and neck.

My Belgian cross is now 6 and has really changed enormously since he was 5 -- but it was a lot of specific work to get him there!!!

[JMBjump]

it has been my experience that that bad habit, along with rearing, will come back and haunt you at the least oportune time. you can fool around with gadgets and training all you want but the best idea is recycle before you get hurt

[AiryFairy]

it has been my experience that that bad habit, along with rearing, will come back and haunt you at the least oportune time. you can fool around with gadgets and training all you want but the best idea is recycle before you get hurt

I couldn't disagree more. My last horse (a very nice warmblood) was a giveaway because he was a bolter, and "dangerous". But when he bolted, he wasn't dirty about it, he could have dumped me in a second, he had simply been abused with a whip and developed the bolting out of fear. He was also smart, and took advantage of everyone who wasn't in complete control. He learned who he could easily intimidate and he did. It was more an issue of trust than anything, when it became clear that I was not intimidated and had no intention of losing the argument, AND wasn't going to beat him when he reacted that way, he gave it up and became just the best horse ever, solid as a rock, not a dishonest bone in his body.

You just can't ever lose that argument, he goes where you say no matter how long it takes to get that point across.

[WilfredLeblanc]

Hey, let us know how it goes! He's CUTE!!! One other thing . . .

Thanks for the kind praise and the helpful hint about working on impulsion.

We had a great day at Twin Rivers. Couldn't have been better, really. We got to try a bit of everything: the galloping track (Memphis can MOVE!), water, drops, ditches, and assorted fences and obstacles. The only thing Memphis had any trouble with was this particular turkey feeder. It was the first time he'd ever pulled a jump refusal on me, but with a good crack of the whip and a low growl, he got it on the third attempt. My trainer moved us from BN up to N in a few places, which was validating.

Interestingly, I found out on the ride down that Memphis came to the barn from none other than Gina Miles, who started him and had a couple of riders work with him at her barn down the coast for his first few years.

[WilfredLeblanc]

. . . he gave it up and became just the best horse ever, solid as a rock, not a dishonest bone in his body.

My sentiments about Memphis, more or less. Especially after our most recent jumping lessons with stadium fences and the XC schooling, I'm very confident in his basic goodness. He's a sweet and extremely athletic boy, just a bit emotional some days, but as long as I keep insisting on being the alpha, I don't think he'll fail to grow out of the bolting compulsion--which in any case surfaces seldom. I do think the kimberwick bit is helpful!