Spinoff - So which is better?

[Invested1]

Buying a horse to show you the ropes or buying one you go up the ranks with together?

I can only speak to the latter as I bought my horse as a hunter prospect then went and watched one horse trial and have been hooked ever since. :D

The thing about learning together is that I understand that we are teaching each other and that I cannot put him into a situation I don't understand and expect him to figure it out and save me. Does that make me more....cautious than being on a horse that knows his job and I would expect to make up for my mistakes?

I don't know.
Would love to hear opinions! :yes:

[Ajierene]

It depends on the horse. I have always only ever evented my mare and she was not even saddle broke when I started working with her. I kind of fell into eventing - it wasn't my plan.

With her, there was a lot of confidence issues about jumping, which created confidence issues with me and jumping. They are lingering in cross country, though they are fine in stadium.

If I had a packer type to run around a few horse trials or even school cross country, I think the confidence issues would have been alleviated by now.

It is great to learn with your horse and I have LOVED the experience. I just would have liked to have at least popped over some jumps, done a cross country clinic or something with a made horse that could show me the ropes would have been great.

[deltawave]

I think it's like asking which child you love the most. There is no correct answer (hopefully). You love each one for what he/she is.

I've gotten to do both, albeit not in a very intense fashion: bought a Prelim packer and she took me from Novice to Prelim capably, and I have also bred my own baby who is now a Training-wannabe. Both horses are priceless to me, and I wouldn't trade either experience. Now that I'm older I am not so keen on the "make the baby from scratch" prospect. :) OTOH, thanks to my packer, I don't have to walk around Novice courses any more and be scared at their size. :)

Personally I'd wish both experiences on everyone. Not to be missed, either one of them. :yes:

[LexInVA]

Hmm....

[Jupes]

I think it also depends on the rider.

With:
solid basics
confidence
natural instincts
some talent
I bet s/he could do pretty well.
I know people like this.

On the other hand, if you're talking about just an average rider: the basics but lacking one or more of the other 3 qualities... well, then, I dunno...
(I know a rider like this, too. :lol: )

[Saskatoonian]

I'm with Deltawave. Best of all worlds? Start with the packers, then do the greenies. Best to learn before you have to teach.

Spent my whole life riding horses other people wouldn't (and never went above N! - though I did jump bigger at home, sometimes with the comment afterward "I can't believe you were brave enough to jump him over that!" - mind you, his owner was setting the fences), and when I could finally buy my own, he was an older (like 17) T level packer. He taught me T. Then I got my friend's retired *** horse, who taught me P. They gave me the skills and mostly confidence to bring Toony from the track through training, and to know to dump Kingsley, and to buy Toucan immediately. :) They've all had their thrills.

Having taken Toucan for his first XC school a couple of weeks ago, I'd gently suggest that going XC on a green horse is not going to be necessarily the biggest confidence builder ever for a green XC rider. ;) You do sort of have to have a sense of humor. A death grip on the mane and a solid bridge don't hurt either.

[Hilary]

Eventing is hard enough, why try to learn on a horse who doesn't know how either. I was lucky enough to have a saintly horse when I was a teenager. He was good enough to go Training and when I rode right he was brilliant. When I didn't, half the time he'd save my butt and half the time he'd stop, roll his eyes and say "Hey, up there, wanna participate?" which taught me, safely, how to ride well.

Riding is supposed to be fun, and without a "Ralph" to teach me that it could be, I might not have been able to become good enough to teach other horses how to event.

I think the thrill of completing a clean fast Prelim XC is about equal to that of getting your homebred around her first "logs on the ground" event when she's 4.

So get the best horse you can, learn from him and make him better, then get yourself the project.

[AirJockey24]

Depends on the horse. My current horse has had a ton of miles but he's so in tune with how I'm feeling, that if I'm not confident at a fence and take my leg off, he'll stop, which (at least for me) causes more problems. Those things can happen with any horse. Sometimes the horse that you make your self can be more of a steady mount than one who knows his job. Like it's been said before, all depends on the horse.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Buying a horse to show you the ropes or buying one you go up the ranks with together?




Easy answer...green and green is never advisable. If you don't know what you are doing and your horse doesn't know what it is doing....it doesn't always work out well.


Sometimes it does.. I've never had a made horse....my first event was training level...as was my horse's. While dressage was painful to watch...the rest was fine. But this was only because I was an experienced rider generally, and had lots of good experienced eventing help (did a TON of xc schooling). BUT it would not be the way I would recommend as the best way....it was just the only choice I had (starting with green horses).

Now I enjoy bringing along green horses (always have enjoyed)....but I'm also just as quick to know when I need more help and will let a better more experienced rider get on and help my horses out. But I can afford to do that now....and I don't have an ego that gets in my way of knowing that sometimes the best answer for my horse is to let someone else ride them;)


Long answer...but bottom line, if one can afford it, it is better to learn the game when at least one of the partners knows what they are doing!

[Janet]

I think you shoud FIRST do it on a horse that already knows it (though not necesarily a packer). At least through Training.

THEN you can bring a long a greener horse, becuase you have a better idea of what it is SUPPOSED to feel like.

[Crazy_Eventer]

at least for me, I definitely need a packer right now (which I just bought about a week ago :D ). I think at least one of the pair needs to have some sense of what they're doing. I tried the greenie route for the past 2 years and ended up getting hurt in competition because neither of us knew what we were doing. I'm only 18 (was 16 when I bought said greenie) and was new to eventing so we both were trying to learn together-which obviously didn't work.

For an experienced rider, a greenie can be fun but for a green rider, a packer can be the safer option until they become more experienced.

[Invested1]

I think at least one of the pair needs to have some sense of what they're doing.

Agreed! :lol:

Thankfully my boy is one of the most honest, kind-hearted horses I have ever met. He tries so hard to give me whatever it is that he thinks I'm asking for. :yes:

Looking back, would I have rathered have a horse who knew his job instead of us learning together? Honestly, I don't know. Every time Ted and I finish an event or move up a level or finally *get* something, it is the most incredible feeling of accomplishment. I'm not sure I would have wanted it any other way.
Then again, that's just me. And I certainly didn't know when I bought Tedi that this is the route we'd be taking. :D

[yellowbritches]

I think it is always preferable to have something to learn on instead of with, however, lots of people start eventing on the horse they had, and, as long as they receive halfway decent education, they do fine. I do think it is nice to at least get to ride a "packer" at some point, though.

I started eventing on a horse who'd never evented (Neigh). Because we had lots of trust in each other, it worked out great. Other than a small ditch issue which I didn't have the education to fix (solved by the boss putting a very good rider on him and schooling the hell out of him for me. Good education for me, watching her, and great for him. He's been a star at ditches ever since), I learned the basics of the sport on a horse I knew and trusted. HOWEVER, my real education came from Elf (especially in xc). Elf had gone prelim and had foxhunted for years. He taught me all about riding at speed and jumping out of a good forward rhythm and what it meant to ride boldly. The boss helped that education along a bit by sending me out on Elf with a Nathe. :lol: I finally figured out how to make time that day! :lol:

[Bobthehorse]

There are more options than buying a made UL horse or a green bean baby.

My first eventer was a 22 year old ex-everything. Little bit of this and that, some LL eventing, western games, jumpers, schoolie. He was an eventer at heart, and taught me how to ride just because he was tolerant and forgiving, but challenging at the same time. By no means a made horse, but had that been there done that attitude.

My second horse was a problem horse. 10 year old QH that had been at an eventing barn, but his rider was nervous and he just wasnt working out even for LLs. Then he was at a dressage barn and got some sketchy training. Sent back to his breeders, who was also my farrier at the time. He knew his basics, jumped when he got to the jump, steered, hacked. But he was miserable about whips, contact and spurs. He would rocket around and take flyers over every jump in sight (we did lots of multiple bounces!). So, while he was trained, per-se, he needed a lot of reworking to get him going nicely, and everything from BN up is all me and my coach. I am insulted when people make comments about him being a packer or an easy ride, because I spent years working with this horse, and he wasnt always honest and didnt always look like an easy ride. He likes to jump, but he has a difficult personality and is very opinionated.

Now I have a green bean baby, but Im not a new eventer anymore either. I have now spent 9 years in this sport, up to Training and schooling Prelim, so while Prelim+ will be us learning together, I have the skill and experience to show HIM the ropes at the LLs, and by the time we are going Prelim, we will be a solid team.

[Janet]

There are more options than buying a made UL horse or a green bean baby. I didn't take "a horse that knows the ropes" to mean either a "made UL horse", nor a "Training Level Packer".

More a horse that has competed at least at Novice without major problems.

[scubed]

I evented first on my trainer's homebreds and schoolies that had never evented before. Some had never jumped before. Then after an 18 year eventing hiatus, I started and evented a bunch of horses off the track and out of pasutres, etc, none with any experience. 3 through training, one through intermediate. This year, I rode a made horse for the first time. He is a former 3* horse and I rode him preliminary. I really think it was harder in the sense that he knew how to be ridden correctly, whereas my horses assumed that the crappy way I ride is just the way it is. I also didn't have the wealth of experience with him to know how he would react in various situations (although obviously, one could gain that over time with any horse). Still, I really like the bond with the horses I bring along, but probably past prelim or intermediate, a horse with some experience at the level could be a confidence boost.

[riderboy]

Experienced horses, however can be very expensive. I agree that someone to show you the ropes is the way to go. I'm looking for a horse who is solid at prelim, not too old, sound and sane as an amateur rider and the prices are just unbelievable. In fact, I think the relative lack of good affordable horses for lower level riders is one reason people get discouraged with the sport. And who do you trust to buy that horse from for all that money? I know I'll find one but the process is painful.

[Divine Comedy]

I must say that I don't believe I have ever even sat on a horse that has gone preliminary. I've ridden for twelve years, evented for six, and never had my own horse until January 2007.

I definitely wish I could have ridden a packer when I was younger. But when I went to buy my own horse, I wanted something much younger, because I was also looking at him as an investment (although not as much now, I really would like to keep this one). I bought a just turned 5 year old TB and he has been the most amazing thing I've ever ridden. He's never once stopped at a cross country fence out on course except when I pushed him too hard after a fall in a lake last fall. We worked through a ditch problem and a water problem and now I trust him to jump anything for me.

So I wouldn't trade having a green horse for anything. But I definitely would have liked to ride a packer when I was younger.

[deltawave]

I'm looking for a horse who is solid at prelim, not too old, sound and sane

Drop just one of those criteria and the price comes down considerably. :D

I opted to drop the "not too old" one (Gwen was 16 when I bought her) and had four FABULOUS years (2 at Prelim) that I wouldn't trade for anything. Wouldn't compromise on sane for any price, and "sound" is of course a relative thing for a high-mileage eventer. :)

[Whisper]

I got to learn the ropes a little by part-leasing a horse who had evented through Training. I still don't think I know enough/ride well enough to bring along a complete greenie, even with a lot of help. I did get to ride the little Paint (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1090/1184064601_d570c28a58.jpg) on his first XC outing, but he's a very experienced trail horse, so he's negotiated logs, banks, and ditches before. The first day, we just did some flat work and very easy, plain fences. The next day, I let him hop over some of the fences with his halter and leadrope (and boots), hand-graze a bit, and just generally settle in, before I tacked him up for the actual schooling. If we were doing anything more than Elementary, I would have needed to have a trainer ride him first at that level.

[Invested1]

my horses assumed that the crappy way I ride is just the way it is.

:lol:
Ditto.
:lol:

[Sightunseen]

I think that your first event horse should have so kind of experience, that being said I do not think that you need a horse that has been there done that at all levels, but it doesnt hurt.

[yellowbritches]

There are more options than buying a made UL horse or a green bean baby.
I didn't take it to mean UL OR baby. Neigh and I had done just about everything you could do in a english saddle when we did our first event. He was far from a green bean, just had never done any xc, other than the occasional log in the woods. Most people I know who come to the sport with their horse have been doing something else. Sometimes they come with a green bean, but not always.

When I passed his reins on to someone else to event, I totally considered him a packer, but he'd never done more than novice. He gave her all the confidence in the world, and took a rider who at one point never saw herself jumping xc, let alone actually eventing, and got her to fall in love with the sport. Hardly and UL horse.