Lucinda Green Weighs In On The One-fall Rule

[Cisco's_Mom]

http://www.useventing.com/education.php?section=safety&id=1645

I couldn't agree with her more.

[Saskatoonian]

Brilliant as always. Thanks for posting this.

[Pixie Dust]

I'm so glad she is speaking up.

[RiverBendPol]

Lucinda is a genius.

[bip]

She's probably right.

I did think that the rule did its job with the AT fall, however. I have no particular opinion on AT either way, just that the fall did not strike me as "bad luck", the way it would if the horse just slipped making a tight turn. And it was nice to see the rule applied to the upper levels, instead of the lower levels where it ends up happening most.

[Regal Grace]

I know it's a pipe dream but it would really be something if the USEA could lure her over her for a couple a years.

[poltroon]

I'm not sure how I feel about fall-and-out at the national level, but I think it's a good idea for FEI competitions. At the Olympics, these days, if you fall off, and you're not going to be in contention for anything, not even a team medal.

[Jealoushe]

I'm for the rule, and she may be right.

But since they won't do anything about the bad riding these days, they gotta do something.

So they change rules, courses, fences, etc where for years they didn't need to. Where all they really need to change are the riders.

[JER]

I'm not sure how I feel about fall-and-out at the national level, but I think it's a good idea for FEI competitions. At the Olympics, these days, if you fall off, and you're not going to be in contention for anything, not even a team medal.

The rule had an interesting effect on the Olympics but that's because it functioned as a scoring issue, not a safety issue. At a top-level team competition, the one-fall rule actually adds some excitement -- but only because it's about scoring.

I agree with Lucinda on this rule. It's the appearance of safety and not actual safety -- and that right there is dangerous.

[Fergs]

I'm for the rule, and she may be right.


I also see Lucinda's point, but I am for the rule.

Jump judges should NOT have to be in the position of deciding whether a competitor is fit to continue or not. It may be one-size-fits-all approach that is largely necessary because of devolution in the kinds of riding we're seeing at events, but it's the safest course of action for both horse and rider.

[poltroon]

I think it does add to safety at the Olympics. Of the riders who fell, I don't think any one of them needed to get back on and finish. If they had, it would've taken time and attention to get them going again, and you have a higher risk that a rider will be overtaken, etc. There's not time to really evaluate a horse and rider adequately.

At novice or training at a local event, it's potentially a different story.

[Hony]

I completetly see LG's point and strongly dissagree with the rule.
A month ago at an event I fell off. The rule wasn't in use at that time so I got back on and proceded. The ground jury were at the fence I fell off at. They asked me a few questions to assess my situation. I had not hit my head. In fact I had no injuries, not even a scratch. If I had been finished by that fall it would have been really frustrating because there was nothing physically wrong with me or my horse.

[inquisitive]

If you legislate for every one-off incident, you will have a thicket of rules and a sparse sport.

:yes:

[Saskatoonian]

It's a training issue - confidence - and therefore a safety issue - that Lucinda is raising. It doesn't matter if the fall removes you from contention for ribbons or medals. Her perspective is much broader than a single competition.

[toeknee]

It's the appearance of safety and not actual safety -- and that right there is dangerous.
...very true!

[BLBGP]

I wouldn't have wanted to see any of the riders who fell off during these Olympics get back on a keep going. Sure, they weren't hurt, but there were obvious reasons why they fell. For one reason or another, it wasn't their day and I'm glad they didn't have the opportunity to make things potentially worse.

[yellowbritches]

As always, I think Lucinda is brilliant and spot on. She put the thoughts I have regarding the rule (I hate it) in to a well organized, well stated thought. She said what I basically, one way or another thought, and she's right on the money. Confidence IS a fragile thing, and being able to jump on, learn from the mistake, and finish confidently before you've had a chance to think too much is a very important part of learning how to do this RIGHT. I think the rule is a knee jerk reaction that isn't going to solve anything. Other than the Quiet Man, does anyone know of any other instance that getting back on resulted in something bad?

Just food for thought, I remember a fall I took a few years ago when riding Ralph in the ring at home. I was having a jump lesson and working on some things to prepare me for my move up to prelim. I missed my line, Ralph ran out, and hit the deck. I jumped back on, got my line better the second time, and we finished on a brilliant, confident note. If I'd been in a competition environment and had done that, I would have dwelled on the issue and probably been backed off.

Stupid rule. Agree with LG. :yes:

[Trixie]

Jump judges should have to be in the position of deciding whether a competitor is fit to continue or not. It may be one-size-fits-all approach that is largely necessary because of devolution in the kinds of riding we're seeing at events, but it's the safest course of action for both horse and rider.

Unfortunately, this would probably scare some people off jump judging - can you think of the liability if they allowed someone to get back on and compete who wasn't fit to continue and had an accident? Jump judges, for the most part, don't have much in the way of medical qualifications to be making decisions like that.

[Fergs]

Unfortunately, this would probably scare some people off jump judging - can you think of the liability if they allowed someone to get back on and compete who wasn't fit to continue and had an accident? Jump judges, for the most part, don't have much in the way of medical qualifications to be making decisions like that.

Trixie, thanks for quoting me because it highlighted the fact that I left the word "not" out of my previous post!

Jump judges should NOT be in a position to decide whether someone is okay to continue. That is the reason the rule makes sense to me and, more importantly, to organizers.

This is why I am for the rule despite being able to understand where Lucinda is coming from.

[Saskatoonian]

I've been close to posting this a couple of times but it's not quite on point, so I've resisted. As it seems to be a recurring theme, however, here you go.

Every time I've ever jump judged, the briefing has been abundantly clear on this: if there is any doubt, the jump judge radios in and the EMTs check the rider out before he or she continues. The jump judge is thus not required to make the call.

[Hilary]

As the rider of a very quick, silly, spooky horse I HATE this rule. Thank you Lucinda for, as usual, speaking as a voice of experienced reason.

[fooler]

Interesting that the AA rider who is normally riding only 1 horse has 1 fall and is out of the competition.

What about those riders with 2 or more horses, usually the pros? They are out on that horse, but have 1 to 11 more to keep going.

I have to agree with LG and to the one who noted: It's the appearance of safety and not actual safety -- and that right there is dangerous.

[Flying Hippotamus]

Last time this topic came up I never got back to correct a few things. I agree with Lucinda, I'm against the rule at least at Training and below which is really what I know about.
First if they want to call it an E that's fine but let the rider get back on. Maybe that would get rid of the competitive pressure and "in the moment" stuff.

Second - Organizers as a group are not for the rule. Some are very much against it. I am an organizer for one. Opinion is as varied as this board, so really don't do me any favors.

Third - I'm not against the rule because I fall off alot. I think I fell off once in competition more than 10 years ago. And that was in stadium when it was still allowed. It was below BN on a wiry green TB that spooked at buttercups growing on the field. Glad I was able to get back on that green bean. I against the rule because I have seen a lot of falls and no one has gotten back on that I shouldn't have. I still believe falling off at an event is the safest place to fall off. I don't like seeing competitor end their day on a bad note rather than a good one.

Fourth and this one makes me almost sick. People are saying go fall off at schooling trials. Well I asked the organizer of our schooling trials if she was going to let people continue if they fall. And she said (I am totally gagging writing this) that she would ask the lawyers. So that is what it comes down to our sport being guided by lawyers. I'm not blaming her. Years ago when I was running the schooling trials and they first required armbands and safety vest, I didn't want to require them particularly not below BN. I felt people were just getting into the sport and was a big investment. But we had to go with the rule because of legal reasons. So I ended up lending out my own vest alot that year.

Like Lucinda said horses are dangerous. They worst injury I have seen and the only one that has required an airlift in 10 plus years of organizing was a childs pony kicked a trainer multiple times. Our safety coordinator likes to keep the emt's near the trailering area because he says that is where most of the accident occur. Two mounting problems are tied for second as worst in my book. Horse landed on car and the other reared up till fell over. The x-c course has been relatively quiet.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

Ooh I hadn't realized Lucinda will our keynote convention speaker! Brilliant!

And can I offer now to buy Flutie and Lucinda a drink and let them duke this rule out at the bar?? That would be an interesting conversation, I'm betting.

Might be a heck of a fundraiser if we let people toss money in a jar to support their side of the discussion, then donated the proceeds to some safety or education effort... ;)

[crittertwitter]

Great article. :)

[jumpjesterjump]

i belive that Lucinda is right on. I commented on the one fall your out rule on another post and was pretty much told i needed to pick a different sport when i made mention of confidence being lower after a fall.

[Saskatoonian]

heck, Jester, I find myself wondering that a lot these days... ;)

[jumpjesterjump]

i love eventing and want ot get back too it soon (no horse right now :( ). I have only lost my confidence after a couple of kinda nasty falls, both were when i thought i was ready to move up and found out that i guess i wasn't.

I also think that i am cursed on the third weekend of June, (both of my falls in competition were that weekend 1 year apart). Then two years after that i sprained my ankle, again, on that same weekend.

[LLDM]

LC may be right on the money about the UK. But if you read this part of her statement:

HORSES ARE DANGEROUS. That is why the Pony Club spent so much time teaching us how to approach our pony, tie-up, pick out feet, and generally learn how to deal with between quarter and half a ton of living mass, capable of reactions quicker than the speed of light. Kicking at a fly can kill you - if your head is thoughtlessly in the way.

One might realize that here in the US our riders are no always so well educated and seem to have egos bigger than their capacity for sense. Which is why we might just really need this training-wheels rule. I don't like it, but I think it is necessary at the moment. Maybe if we behave and grow up a bit we can rescind it later.

Hmmm, maybe that is true of some at the upper levels as well?

SCFarm

[LessonLearned]

I am jump judging Intermediate and Prelim at an event in a few weeks -- NO WAY do I want the responsibility of deciding whether or not someone can/should get back on.

While there were many things that disturbed me about the HBO special, one of the main thoughts that stuck with me was the commentary about jump judging. I have volunteered at multiple events. While it probably should have, it never occurred to me that someone might consider suing ME should something go wrong (again, it should have since we live in a culture where everyone sues anyone for anything -- including their own stupidity).

I don't like the one fall rule because I know that it is not a black and white issue. But I don't want to be the one deciding whether the shade of gray is dove or steel.

Frankly, I am glad that it is in place because I don't want to give someone a leg up only to have them crash and burn at the next fence.

Of course, my own personal soap box, having been to more bleary morning briefings than I care to think about, is better training for jump judges (and walkie-talkies that work -- I'm really keen on those), particularly in terms of what constitutes dangerous riding.