Future team competitions -- what does Team USA need to change?

[Eventer4life28]

What do we need to do to be as strong as Germany, Australia and Great Britain?

Anyone have any ideas? Thoughts?

Do we need to change...
Our selection process?
Our coach?
Our horses?

[BaroquePony]

Start with our training.

[poltroon]

To be honest, even on our best day we would've been duking it out for bronze. The Germans were incredible, impeccably mounted, impeccably trained, and they were foot perfect in all three phases. The Aussies were similarly just wonderful, getting all five of their riders around with great scores.

We were unlucky when the other teams were lucky. Our dressage was good but theirs was better. McKinleigh was awesome.

I'd say we need more riders with the right horses, always a need. I'd also like to see a bunch of our riders going to Badminton next year. They need more chances to ride internationally, and that means money for plane tickets.

All that said, I'm very satisfied with the competition. This was a great showing of great riders. Even knowing that Gina Miles needed rails to drop for a medal, I was rooting for all the other great riders who also deserved medals - Tina Cook, Mary King, Ingrid Klimke, the list goes on. And Hinrich Romeike! An amateur won it all!

[krobert]

Hehehe....just kidding!

Don't think about giving our latest exports to the US new citizenship (Boyd Martin, Ryan Wood, Kadi Eykamp) :lol:

Surely the US will get back in the team medals again, you certinaly have no financial lacking, quality events, nice horses, great training, etc.

Persistence pays off!

The Kiwi's are probably asking the same question, they went from dominating the sport to having to bring legends out of retirement :winkgrin:

Eventing is one of the toughest and most leveling sports around. As long as the sport doesn't change to suit dressage horses who can jump and the x-country phase remains to be a testing phase for an athletic bold jumper who can gallop with endurance. Not to mention the rider who needs to be brave and quick thinking and has a trusting relationship with their steed. The sport has already changed enough to suit a more purpose bred sporthorse rather than the racetrack rejects.

[Kanga]

There is one answer to this..........OUR COACH!!!

The best thing the Germans did about 6-7 years ago that turned them around to be at the top of this game was to hire Christopher Bartle as their coach.

He spanked CMP and I LOVE IT!!!!!!

[denny]

I`m pretty out of the current loop, but I talk with plenty of riders who are in the thick of things.

So, from them------It isn`t a good thing to have a coach who lives somewhere else, and doesn`t, therefore, truly understand the entire US eventing infrastructure, know the younger up and comers, know the young up and coming horses, know and respect the grass roots, etc.

Le Goff made the commitment to move here, even became a US citizen, I think, and he really understood what American eventing was, partly because of his respect for, and friendship with, Neil Ayer, the USEA President.

I don`t know how many actual days out of 365 CMP actually spends in the USA, but I`d be very surprised if was 100 days, if that, and that`s not enough to become integrated into our system.

[Innocent Bystander]

There is one answer to this..........OUR COACH!!!

The best thing the Germans did about 6-7 years ago that turned them around to be at the top of this game was to hire Christopher Bartle as their coach.

He spanked CMP and I LOVE IT!!!!!!Although I do agree with you, Kanga, I don't think a coach change is going to be the ultimate solution.

Until the US stops asking breeders/owners to foot the bill in terms of breeding/developing Olympic caliber horses and implements a program that provides financial support for this group, we will never have the depth of horseflesh needed to be a true and consistent contender on the international Eventing scene. Sadly, US breeders are producing some really nice horses, but they go unnoticed because many of these breeders can't afford to develop them due to high costs combined with little to no financial support.

And anyone who thinks the US can go to foreign countries and buy what is needed is not being realistic. Do you really think German breeders are going to let the US come in and buy their best horses? Heck no, but they'll be more than happy to sell us their third and fourth stringers while charging top dollar prices.

[Jealoushe]

Better riding lessons.

Horses that are better jumpers.

MUCH more conditioning (considering tired horses after 8 mins whereas they used to be going 2hrs and still jumped around...maybe the long format weeded out the horses that weren't 4* fit caliber???)

More experience overseas.

[snoopy]

There is one answer to this..........OUR COACH!!!

The best thing the Germans did about 6-7 years ago that turned them around to be at the top of this game was to hire Christopher Bartle as their coach.

He spanked CMP and I LOVE IT!!!!!!



There isn't much better than chris, I will have a agree.

[Kanga]

Innocent Bystander- You are right 100%. I just think that a better Coach is where to start if the Americans want to be world-beaters again. The Irish have so many incentive programs for breeders, which off-set costs for many. It is too bad that we can't come up with something over here that is similar to help the breeder/owner. I do think many nice horses slip through the cracks here because people just don't have the money or connections to promote them correctly.

Denny's point of view on how much Mark lives over here, I'm not sure if that really is the answer. It would be nice to have a coach live here all the time to understand the system of eventing here in America. However, there are coutries that do well with foreign coaches that continue to live in their homeland and operate their own businesses.

Innocent Bystander is very correct in saying that if you go to Germany or most of these European countries to buy a top horse you will NOT get their top horses they will sell you a third or fourth string horse telling you it is their top horse and CHARGING you the big bucks.

For me personally I have not liked the idea that George Morris is helping our Event riders. The HUNTER influence in American eventing I feel is one big reason we are having accidents and not looking nearly as competent as the Australians or Germans.

I know there will be those of you out there that don't feel that way but the system of training for this sport overseas is far different than what we see here.

[Long Shadow Farm]

I think we do need a change in our coach to start with. We have several very talented Internationally level trainers here that are American citizens... why are we not using them???

Also, I think we need to try to get some newer blood in at the top. We have the same riders just about representing us every time. I know that KOC is good, but I much rather had seen Clark or someone in there and give them the chance to prove themselves Internationally. The Aussie team fielded all people who had never rode in the Olympics before and did a great job. And this was Gina's first. I think when it is a new experience, you tend to try harder, ride better, etc. Granted nerves might be a problem, but let someone else who has a great record in there!

And I do think we need to go back to the long format to help condition and weed out the horses that just don't have the "heart" for it. I am all for new ideas and standards, but we have to remain true to the heart of eventing which is the testing of a horse through all three phases including the full endurance.

The USA now has the chance to really sit down and take a long hard look at what is going on with our system and what we need to do to start making changes to improve it. Don't dumb it down by removing our endurance part... bring back the long format. Also focus on the number of talented up and coming riders that need the financial backing to bring new faces and talent to our teams.

Bobbi

[flyingchange]

A fall four-star.
Winters off (like the English do!) for the horses (December - February - no competing). If you MUST go to Florida, work on your LL horses.
More attendance at dressage-only shows, like Devon, as well as the SJ shows like HITS
Less running around and teaching clinics/buying horses for students and more focus on their own riding and programs for their horses
Work with real XC teachers - Wofford, Lucinda.

[Janet]

The Irish have so many incentive programs for breeders, which off-set costs for many. It is too bad that we can't come up with something over here that is similar to help the breeder/owner. I do think many nice horses slip through the cracks here because people just don't have the money or connections to promote them correctly.
...
Innocent Bystander is very correct in saying that if you go to Germany or most of these European countries to buy a top horse you will NOT get their top horses they will sell you a third or fourth string horse telling you it is their top horse and CHARGING you the big bucks.

The result of the Irish system is that there are LOTS of Irish HORSES at the top of the leaderboard, but it hasn't helped the Irish TEAM much.

Similarly, the Irish seem quite willing to sell their top horses overseas, as long as you have enough money.

[Kanga]

The Irish breed a TON of nice top quality horses which is one reason we see Irish everywhere BUT the Irish themselves really do not ride or train well in their Dressage and this has hurt them for many years with their Event Horses.

Janet- You are right, everything is for sale in that country for the right dollar but I don't think that is the case with some of the other European countries.

[fordtraktor]

Also, no reason to blame George Morris. Mark Todd rides like a George Morris poster child. I don't think it is the "hunter influence" that hurts eventing, I think it is a lack of basic skills and training. A good rider will take the best from each instructor and make it her own -- and that means looking for the best instruction in dressage, jumping, and XC. Besides, isn't it Laura Kraut who has been helping the team with the jumping phase? All the blogs reflected how much the team was learning from her and how great she was.

I do think that American eventers generally have a very poor understanding of showjumping and generally ride the phase haphazardly. The Germans, on the other hand, could be just as successful in a real jumper show. With some exceptions (some of them on our team), our riders are just not there. Look at the disaster that was Rolex showjumping this year -- it's embarrassing. The team needs more George, not less.

[LexInVA]

Also, no reason to blame George Morris. Mark Todd rides like a George Morris poster child. I don't think it is the "hunter influence" that hurts eventing, I think it is a lack of basic skills and training. A good rider will take the best from each instructor and make it her own -- and that means looking for the best instruction in dressage, jumping, and XC. Besides, isn't it Laura Kraut who has been helping the team with the jumping phase? All the blogs reflected how much the team was learning from her and how great she was.

I do think that American eventers generally have a very poor understanding of showjumping and generally ride the phase haphazardly. The Germans, on the other hand, could be just as successful in a real jumper show. With some exceptions (some of them on our team), our riders are just not there. Look at the disaster that was Rolex showjumping this year -- it's embarrassing. The team needs more George, not less.

Ding ding! More cowbell too!

[Regal Grace]

There is one answer to this..........OUR COACH!!!

The best thing the Germans did about 6-7 years ago that turned them around to be at the top of this game was to hire Christopher Bartle as their coach.

He spanked CMP and I LOVE IT!!!!!!

I really needed a good laugh given the morning I was having....Thanks Kanga ; )

[Jazzy Lady]

Someone else mentioned it and it's worth repeating. The problem now is the US is sending mostly the well experienced riders but with sometimes inexperienced horse, or horses who are super experienced at the old style (such as Poggio) and not as good on this style course.

While other countries are building up by giving inexperienced and younger riders some international and team experience, the US is sending the "dream team". What will happen when they aren't available? Some of these younger riders who have not yet had the opportunity to go need to be allowed. Look at your US gymnastic team. They are mostly younger gymnasts with a few experienced for anchors. Same with China. Keep a few of those big wigs who are always on the team, but add at least 2 that have never had a chance and have proven themselves to be ready. Like Jennifer. Look at what Gina brought. An experienced horse, a cool head and a fantastic partnership. She has a better partnership with that horse than any other team member out there and it showed. The team needs to grow, by bringing inexperienced riders with preparred horses... not experienced riders with fairly green horses if there are other options available...

JMHO.

[LexInVA]

The big problem is the American system. They pretty much work the same way as the H/J discipline and it does NOT develop riders and horses to the point where they are International material. What they need to do is look carefully at what got them the Gold a decade ago. They had riders like the O'Connors who had lived and competed internationally overseas for many years. They don't have that anymore. It's all domestic and riders are focused on bringing along horses to sell to well heeled clients. Unfortunately, they are at the point where they are running out of money and donors are not lining up like they once were so they can't field the financial burdens of keeping riders overseas.

[poltroon]

The big problem is the American system. They pretty much work the same way as the H/J discipline and it does NOT develop riders and horses to the point where they are International material. What they need to do is look carefully at what got them the Gold a decade ago. They had riders like the O'Connors who had lived and competed internationally overseas for many years. They don't have that anymore. It's all domestic and riders are focused on bringing along horses to sell to well heeled clients. Unfortunately, they are at the point where they are running out of money and donors are not lining up like they once were so they can't field the financial burdens of keeping riders overseas.

The O'Connors set that up for themselves. There was no Team money supporting them or arranging that. They built a network of sponsors and found the way to pay for it.

[JER]

If you look at the 'attrition list' that Badger compiled for another thread, you see the problem. Too many listed horses lost to injury.

This has been going on since about '96. Hmmm.

The coach's job is to coach the listed riders/horses so as to get the best team ready for international competitions. This has not been happening. Instead, we have a pile up of injured horses. Why? The riders have already gotten their horses to top level; they must have been doing something right in terms of conditioning and training. So perhaps there's something wrong with the program.

I think US YRs should be going to the UK/Europe to work, train and compete. They're not going to get the experience here. This is one of the things the Germans (and Italians) have been doing and it's starting to show up in the results.

[magnolia73]

I think bottom line problem is the cost of horse sports. If I'm a gymnast - and I'm great, and my parents have moderate incomes, it is not so hard for a team to subsidize my training.

Equestrians have two things to pay for- horse and rider, and really- to get really good, you need two horses at least. That excludes probably 95% of American families from supporting an international level rider. The horse business doesn't pay well for just competing like basketball or golf. So you make money off sales, training and lessons (if you have a good reputation) which eats into time. I believe I was reading that Courtney King has had to step away from her business for months. Months with no income. In a sport with huge expenses. So you need sponsors. And sponsors support people with strong records. So essentially, if you want money, you need success first. But to have success, you need money.

If Team USA could better subsidize 18 to 24 year old developing riders I think it would insure a strong future. I think everything from assisting with purchasing horses, free training, assisting with competition fees are in order.

[yellowbritches]

Ditto pretty much everything flyingchange said AND-

A much, much deeper base of class act horses and riders, and the ability/willingness to get those horses and riders together (I think we have A LOT of both, but the horses are either being ridden by their non-world class caliber ammy owners- no offense, please- and the riders are stuck with the junk. In Europe owners are far more excited about seeing their horses go up the levels and compete at the top with OTHER riders than owners are here).

We just don't have that. We have some really fine riders and some excellent horses, but we don't have the pairs that everyone else does. Think for a moment. The teams that medaled did so WITHOUT their super stars. No Bettina Hoy for the Germans, no Andrew Hoy or Matt Ryan for the Aussies, no Pippa Funnell, just to name a few, for the UK. William Fox-Pitt had the choice of, what, 3, 4 four star WINNERS? Until we have the depth of horses and riders, it is going to be hard for us to really, really be competitive on the world stage.

On top of that, we need to be better, period. Or dressage is lacking, our show jumping is lacking, our cross country is lacking.

We need to make sure we are sending riders to Europe more. We tend to get stuck in our own little culture here, and then get shocked by the rest of the world when we decide we want to play. I don't think we necessarily need to wait to send combos over for the big 4 stars, but send them for three stars, too. Hell, maybe even two stars!

I do think our coaching needs to change. Less "this is the way I say we do it" and more "may I suggest?" By the time most of our riders are in team contention, they have an established program. They wouldn't be a candidate if something wasn't working, so why do our team leaders insist upon changing everything for everyone when we start ramping up for the big ones??

And, just to make it doubly clear, LESS WINTER CIRCUIT! We are COOKING are horses!

[yellowbritches]

I think bottom line problem is the cost of horse sports. If I'm a gymnast - and I'm great, and my parents have moderate incomes, it is not so hard for a team to subsidize my training.

Equestrians have two things to pay for- horse and rider, and really- to get really good, you need two horses at least. That excludes probably 95% of American families from supporting an international level rider. The horse business doesn't pay well for just competing like basketball or golf. So you make money off sales, training and lessons (if you have a good reputation) which eats into time. I believe I was reading that Courtney King has had to step away from her business for months. Months with no income. In a sport with huge expenses. So you need sponsors. And sponsors support people with strong records. So essentially, if you want money, you need success first. But to have success, you need money.

If Team USA could better subsidize 18 to 24 year old developing riders I think it would insure a strong future. I think everything from assisting with purchasing horses, free training, assisting with competition fees are in order.p;
Actually, it is more that we have people who are unwilling to help our riders. The US has a culture were everyone wants to be a rider. That's why we have levels all the way done to rails on the ground. While that is WONDERFUL that we try to include everyone, we end up having conversations like this one- what are we missing? We are missing people willing to help the international caliber level riders make it to the top and bring home medals. This is something most other countries have. People have horses, have riders ride them, and foot the bill, at least to a degree. Like I said, people LIKE seeing their horses go to the top, and when you pick up the UK Eventing mag or Horse & Hound, everyone, even the young guy who's only been eventing 5 years, has a string of decent horses to develop. Here we have a major anti-ULR environment but don't understand why we don't medal. If more people were willing to help a rider by supporting a horse for them, we'd probably start to see a deeper depth of international quality combos.

The UK and others do also have a great national support system, with sport lotteries and such. They CAN help their riders, but it is more than just the team suppsidizing its team members.

[subk]

Is it possible our Young Rider program isn't providing the riders for the UL as it was intended to?

There are so many successful kids that are successful not because they are learning to be great horsemen, but because mom and dad ponied up a lot of money for a horse and all the trimmings. I'm not saying there aren't any great kids out there--I know there are! But once upon a time Pony Club was the funnel for kids into eventing. What young top riders do we have now that were graduate Bs and As? For the most part they all use to be!

At the end of the day I think a kid coming out of PC with an A rating is much more likely to be the type of horseman that gets all the none riding parts which are a huge piece of the puzzle to success on the international stage. There are plenty of examples of young adults at the upper level that aren't much of any kind of "horseman."

What would we have now if we had taken all the time, effort and money we've put into the YR program and had instead had pumped it into an organization that had already shown success in preparing kids to be world class riders? What would we have if the top honor for a kid wasn't the Young Riders Championship which you can go a long way to winning with money, but instead was a national PC rally that was held at the same level? Pony Club has a history of being a tremendous asset to kids without great resources.

If I had to chose which 22 year old kid to financially support as a sponsor, given similar basic riding skill but less competing experience for the A PCer I'd be writing checks to the A PC everytime.

Flame suit on and zipped securely.

[agromustang]

Give CMP a snorkel and some fins and tell him to start swimming...he can go back to England.

[snoopy]

Ditto pretty much everything flyingchange said AND-

A much, much deeper base of class act horses and riders, and the ability/willingness to get those horses and riders together (I think we have A LOT of both, but the horses are either being ridden by their non-world class caliber ammy owners- no offense, please- and the riders are stuck with the junk. In Europe owners are far more excited about seeing their horses go up the levels and compete at the top with OTHER riders than owners are here).

We just don't have that. We have some really fine riders and some excellent horses, but we don't have the pairs that everyone else does. Think for a moment. The teams that medaled did so WITHOUT their super stars. No Bettina Hoy for the Germans, no Andrew Hoy or Matt Ryan for the Aussies, no Pippa Funnell, just to name a few, for the UK. William Fox-Pitt had the choice of, what, 3, 4 four star WINNERS? Until we have the depth of horses and riders, it is going to be hard for us to really, really be competitive on the world stage.

On top of that, we need to be better, period. Or dressage is lacking, our show jumping is lacking, our cross country is lacking.

We need to make sure we are sending riders to Europe more. We tend to get stuck in our own little culture here, and then get shocked by the rest of the world when we decide we want to play. I don't think we necessarily need to wait to send combos over for the big 4 stars, but send them for three stars, too. Hell, maybe even two stars!

I do think our coaching needs to change. Less "this is the way I say we do it" and more "may I suggest?" By the time most of our riders are in team contention, they have an established program. They wouldn't be a candidate if something wasn't working, so why do our team leaders insist upon changing everything for everyone when we start ramping up for the big ones??

And, just to make it doubly clear, LESS WINTER CIRCUIT! We are COOKING are horses!




BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO...very well said.:yes:

[Gnep]

I don not see a master plan.
That is what made the German team so good and with such depth horses and riders.
They have 2 coaches Bartels and Melzer and an extraordinary staff behind them.
They have a comprehensive system to bring new horses and new riders along.
If one looks up the CCI or CiC results in Europe than one finds besides the usual names a ton of young and upcoming riders that are consistingly placing in the top and they a furthered, promoted and part of the National Team efford.
That plan includes the huge costs and how to raise the money, get sponsors, get money to buy the right horses and than match them with the riders.
The German FN owns horses, the DOKR, German Olympic Comitee for Riding.
That is an organisation, that has a plan, with goals and that has a plan for future riders and horses, the plan is including and not excluding, is not elitist, that goes from pony riders to Olympic champions, the Kraut Kiddos just won the Pony European Eventing Championship and they had or have the same support as the guys that went HK.

That is what I think is missing, a real plan.

[yellowbritches]

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO...very well said.:yes:

Thank you! This might be the highlight of my day, a compliment coming from you and such. ;)

Gnep's post also got me thinking. Our YR program IS lacking. In Europe, kids can start riding on FEI teams while on ponies. They then graduate to juniors, then YRs, and hopefully onto the senior teams. They are watched from the ponies on up and get top instruction from the get go. They also know how to play the team game by the time they make a senior team. That IS part of it (though I don't think being a team player is our real issue). Countries see talent and they develop it. I don't know how much the federations have with getting good kids good rides, but I know when I read Eventing (UK again) and read about the pony team riders and YRs, most have at least a couple of horses and ponies to ride and compete. More horses means more riding means better riding.

[canterlope]

A much, much deeper base of class act horses and riders, and the ability/willingness to get those horses and riders together (I think we have A LOT of both, but the horses are either being ridden by their non-world class caliber ammy owners- no offense, please- and the riders are stuck with the junk. In Europe owners are far more excited about seeing their horses go up the levels and compete at the top with OTHER riders than owners are here).About eight years ago, I had some really nice horses that I though could make a go of it at the international level. I approached three upper level riders with the following proposal:

I would send them a horse on trial for thirty days. During those thirty days, I would pay full training fees in addition to any other hard costs incurred (hay, grain, vet, farrier, etc). At the end of thirty days, they would let me know if they thought the horse had what it took to be an international level eventer. If not, they would return the horse to me. If so, I would continue to pay hard costs, but the rider would not charge me training/showing fees. The riders had the ability to end the partnership at any time. In addition, if a reasonable purchase offer was made for the horse, we both would have to agree to sell it and any net profit would be equally shared.

All three riders agreed and I sent them each a horse. At the end of thirty days, all three said the horse I had sent them had international potential and they wanted to continue our partnership. However, before the end of the next thirty days, all three of them contacted me again to say they couldn't afford to not charge me training fees. Now bear in mind that none of them were being asked to pay for anything on behalf of my horses. Rather they were being given a free ride with all expenses paid along with the potential for making a profit at some point and all they had to do was invest some of their time. Since they were unwilling to hold up their end of the bargain, I terminated my partnerships with them, brought my horses home, and enjoyed them myself.

Personally, I would love to see one of the horses I've bred go up through the levels and compete at the top with any rider. So it isn't a matter of being unwilling to turn horses over to the upper level riders. It is a matter of wanting to be in a partnership with an upper level rider where both parties benefit instead of the upper level rider reaping all of the benefits without assuming any risks while I assume all of the costs and risks.

[yellowbritches]

About eight years ago, I had some really nice horses that I though could make a go of it at the international level. I approached three upper level riders with the following proposal:

I would send them a horse on trial for thirty days. During those thirty days, I would pay full training fees in addition to any other hard costs incurred (hay, grain, vet, farrier, etc). At the end of thirty days, they would let me know if they thought the horse had what it took to be an international level eventer. If not, they would return the horse to me. If so, I would continue to pay hard costs, but the rider would not charge me training/showing fees. The riders had the ability to end the partnership at any time. In addition, if a reasonable purchase offer was made for the horse, we both would have to agree to sell it and any net profit would be equally shared.

All three riders agreed and I sent them each a horse. At the end of thirty days, all three said the horse I had sent them had international potential and they wanted to continue our partnership. However, before the end of the next thirty days, all three of them contacted me again to say they couldn't afford to not charge me training fees. Now bear in mind that none of them were being asked to pay for anything on behalf of my horses. Rather they were being given a free ride with all expenses paid along with the potential for making a profit at some point and all they had to do was invest some of their time. Since they were unwilling to hold up their end of the bargain, I terminated my partnerships with them, brought my horses home, and enjoyed them myself.

Personally, I would love to see one of the horses I've bred go up through the levels and compete at the top with any rider. So it isn't a matter of being unwilling to turn horses over to the upper level riders. It is a matter of wanting to be in a partnership with an upper level rider where both parties benefit instead of the upper level rider reaping all of the benefits without assuming any risks while I assume all of the costs and risks.
This is a very good deal. It is too bad the riders couldn't figure out how to make it work, because, in the long run, paying for entry fees is the EASY part. I know some riders who might be willing to work with you. ;):lol:

[snoopy]

Thank you! This might be the highlight of my day, a compliment coming from you and such. ;)

Gnep's post also got me thinking. Our YR program IS lacking. In Europe, kids can start riding on FEI teams while on ponies. They then graduate to juniors, then YRs, and hopefully onto the senior teams. They are watched from the ponies on up and get top instruction from the get go. They also know how to play the team game by the time they make a senior team. That IS part of it (though I don't think being a team player is our real issue). Countries see talent and they develop it. I don't know how much the federations have with getting good kids good rides, but I know when I read Eventing (UK again) and read about the pony team riders and YRs, most have at least a couple of horses and ponies to ride and compete. More horses means more riding means better riding.



Right on the mark again. If the US is going to play the game on the world stage it has to play like/with the rest of the world...not just a the Olympics/WEG. I am amazed thathe US does not help to fund the development of its athletes....especially when it puts so much stock in its success. GNEP is correct when he says that it should be about inclusion not exclusion. The more you turn away...either on purpose or by setting up the system to make it all but impossible...the less you have to choose from.
The danish, the germans, the french all have organizations in place to KEEP horses for their owners/riders when the temptation is to sell when that big offer comes from america and italy. The current system focuses on a few riders...not on a the pool of world class horses. I also firmly believe that those who drive the sport in the US are concerned about their jobs, their bonuses, and their own egos before the welfare of the sport and its delopment and success.

[canterlope]

This is a very good deal. It is too bad the riders couldn't figure out how to make it work, because, in the long run, paying for entry fees is the EASY part. I know some riders who might be willing to work with you. ;):lol:Amanda, I was paying the entry fees myself. All I was asking the riders to do was not charge me a fee for training or showing them.

[centeur]

Well, there's at least three of us that have the same thoughts; you, me and Lucinda Prior-Palmer Green!

Better riding lessons.

Horses that are better jumpers.

MUCH more conditioning (considering tired horses after 8 mins whereas they used to be going 2hrs and still jumped around...maybe the long format weeded out the horses that weren't 4* fit caliber???)

More experience overseas.

[Ajierene]

While there are a lot of great points - one thing to consider is that the gold medalist is an adult (44) amateur. That seems to tear up the 'bringing the young riders/not enough young riders' and 'team training program' up a bit.

What I did notice about the German riders is that they had more of a relationship with their horse - is it from riding less horses and taking more time to understand the one or two you have? Delving into the training and riding history of the riders may be very appropriate.

Another issue is the idea of a program for junior riders and pony riders. While excellent in concept, the US is not Europe. The US is the size of Europe. Each program is divided into countries that control that program. Germany is roughly the size of Oregon - so even the 10 regions of the USEA are much bigger than many of the European countries. Then, of course, you have states like Alaska and Hawaii that are part of the same region as California - but how are you going to get from Alaska to Hawaii to compete?

While the concept is a great idea, it cannot be plucked from a European country and planted on the US - it just won't work. It should be studied, but then modified and adjusted for the fact that US is a different ball of wax.

[subk]

About eight years ago, I had some really nice horses that I though could make a go of it at the international level. I approached three upper level riders with the following proposal:

I would send them a horse on trial for thirty days. During those thirty days, I would pay full training fees in addition to any other hard costs incurred (hay, grain, vet, farrier, etc). At the end of thirty days, they would let me know if they thought the horse had what it took to be an international level eventer. If not, they would return the horse to me. If so, I would continue to pay hard costs, but the rider would not charge me training/showing fees. The riders had the ability to end the partnership at any time. In addition, if a reasonable purchase offer was made for the horse, we both would have to agree to sell it and any net profit would be equally shared.

All three riders agreed and I sent them each a horse. At the end of thirty days, all three said the horse I had sent them had international potential and they wanted to continue our partnership. However, before the end of the next thirty days, all three of them contacted me again to say they couldn't afford to not charge me training fees. Now bear in mind that none of them were being asked to pay for anything on behalf of my horses. Rather they were being given a free ride with all expenses paid along with the potential for making a profit at some point and all they had to do was invest some of their time. Since they were unwilling to hold up their end of the bargain, I terminated my partnerships with them, brought my horses home, and enjoyed them myself.

Personally, I would love to see one of the horses I've bred go up through the levels and compete at the top with any rider. So it isn't a matter of being unwilling to turn horses over to the upper level riders. It is a matter of wanting to be in a partnership with an upper level rider where both parties benefit instead of the upper level rider reaping all of the benefits without assuming any risks while I assume all of the costs and risks.
I think that that is an extrodinary story. It almost leaves me speachless...or typeless as it were.

[YRAP Mom]

The gold and silver medalists are amateurs. While one is in a different country, one is located on the other coast (like a different country perhaps?) away from USEA/USEF central.

[LKF]

What does a person have to 'do' or 'be' to be hired as the USA Eventing coach?

Maybe the answer is logical - my nomination would be Denny Emerson.:yes:

[pwynnnorman]

I just posted on another thread what is basically my position on this one, too: I think we must accept the fact that we may never have the depth they have across the pond and without that depth, our results are going to vary much more widely than theirs. That hardly means we have bad riders. It just means we don't have the deep pool others have to be consistent in what we produce (or how we produce it, for that matter). We cannot follow their system. We do not have and probably can never have the kind of "quality control" that licensing affords, such as in Germany. And we sure as heck won't ever have the UK's lottery system to fund our top and developing riders.

Now, wanna REEEEAAAALLLY help us at least edge closer? Yeah, start 'em younger: Let's have a credible pony base so kids can grow into juniors with the kind of foundation that produces better competitors. Like someone said, that's one fundamental that could be changed if there was the will, but kids won't ride ponies (much less ponies over 3'3" or more, like they do in Europe) if there are no trainers to train them (kids or ponies) or competitions to attract them.

So what do we end up with? IMO, some pretty unnatural kid/junior/YR riders. Look at Cayla Katiama (sp?). Lovely girl, jsut lovely. But she didn't scrap around on ponies now, did she? How many kids in Europe get to ride four-star WEG horses? Again, NOT NOT NOT a criticism of her, OK? But we've talked about this before: there's a difference there that might just matter. No proof it does, of course--certainly, Cayla has done NOTHING to make one think she typifies any weakness in our system!!! (as in, Laine, maybe; Cayla, no or not yet).

As was also said before, we also don't have kids who foxhunt. Speaking generally (as in, "on average") our kids simply do not have the foundation to become the kind of riders Europe can produce. So, IMO, we have to figure out how to do it our own way. I think that is what is getting in the way of discussions like these: folks think "their" way is best--and maybe it is, but we can't use it, so there's no point in crying over that spilt milk. We have to find our own way--and that's gonna take a long time, if ever.

[Ajierene]

The gold and silver medalists are amateurs. While one is in a different country, one is located on the other coast (like a different country perhaps?) away from USEA/USEF central.

Very valid points as well.

I forgot to add as well, cantelope's story was also intriguing. If canterlope is footing the bill and the rider is getting all the glory, why training fees on top of that? Plus, any sales would include splitting the profits. It doesn't make sense. It is also something I have been considering doing with my future foal (because you know she's going to be Olympic quality...of course...) and now am wondering if I can make it work. I don't have all kinds of money to be spending on training fees and don't mind that the rider will get the glory, the horse will get the glory and no one will know me from Adam. My main motivation is a love for the stallion that is going to be the daddy (yeah, not even bred yet and I am dreaming big...) and wanting his name to be in the lights as the foal's father - as well as the pride I will feel knowing that I produced such a fine horse.

Anyway.....back to the topic at hand - why are amateurs better? I still think it has a lot to do with concentrating on developing a relationship with one horse and competing for the love of the game. Similar to canterlope's story - maybe some upper level riders have their sights set to much on money and fame and have lost sight of the love of the horse and the discipline.

[Jealoushe]

Yep and Yep to the last 2 posts...

I was thinking of doing the same with my horse, as I might be travelling for a year and want him to go where he can go....I wonder if the canadian riders would be more keen on it? I'm not sure about it now..

[Elghund2]

I'll say that you don't have to do anything to the program. Since 1984 the US has won more eventing medals than any other country and, I believe, is the only country to have won a medal in every one of those games either as a team or individual. I think people have to realize things run in cycles. If you look at th ages of the horses run in these games for the US, they were relatively young compared to some of DOC winning rides.

People need to take a deep breath.

[Eventrgrl]

I think, for the most part, most people my age (jr/yr) see NAJYRC as a good goal before you go to college or age out. If you track a lot of the winners in the past years, many quit, or go to college.

However, I think the two YRs who won the * and ** this year, Callie Judy & Jennie Brannigan, will without a doubt eventually become US team members. Both are young, EXTREMELY talented, have had excellent coaching, and most importantly what seems like unlimited SUPPORT from not only their parents but outside supporters. This is the difference between most YRs (even those with $$ parents) and these two standouts. Without a doubt they have everything to keep climbing up the levels and rankings. I think these are the type of people, along with YRs like Maddie Blackman, Nate Chambers, Missy Miller, the Tracy sisters, etc who are super successful at the FEI levels, who should be on SOME KIND of training list to get them to the next level. They all ride with the best coaches in the country but could be that much better with more backing behind them.

Then theres the young[er] riders who have aged out but are still extremely talented but sometimes get lost in the scramble. Who knowns if the younger riders who have already proved themselves, like Allison Springer, Lauren Kieffer, Emilee Libby, Kelly Sult, etc. would be if they got the same kind of support like Karen, Kim, Phillip, etc. Most are "given a chance" to make a team but I wish they got more in the way of attention and support.

And ofcourse, our country will never have the same kind of dominance that Germany has. Their riding programs and show circuits puts our PC to SHAME. While those kids are learning the training scale and shooting for the FEI pony tests, kids here are cranking on their poor ponies' faces without anyone to teach them the basis of dressage. And dont even get me started on PC these days. Im proud to say Im atleast a survivor... the kids coming out of PC, at least in my region, are pretty damn scary.

[Gnep]

ajierene,
you did not get the point, the German FN has a national coach for the ponie riders, the coach has a staff, those kids are trained, groomed, supported like The BNs. It is the base, the future, even if only 3 or 5 of them end up riding CCIs or CIC it paied of.
Same on their developing rider programs, they groom and develop riders.
Same for horses.
The German Team, The Team not just the 5 that went, was already in place last year and was consitently preped for the specifics of HK. Only one Team Rider rode a 4 star this year, they concentrated on the shorter CICs 3 and the CCI 3, because that is what they got in HK.
For the test event, they send the whole coaching staf and vets and what so ever over there to gain experiance and colect data, they even tested riders clothing from the Dressage outfit to the X-C and stadium outfit.
They have not just a national coach, but a complet coaching staf and on top of it they used the huge expertise of the of other disciplin riders, Romeike did his stadium walk with one of the top jumpers as an example.
That coaching staf was present at every major show the Team Riders rode, even in Badminton were only 1 Team Member and a number 2 rider ( aTeam member ) rode.

The german Team arived in HK 2 weeks before, had ample time to adjust, knew the facilities and so on.
It was planed, well managed and executed.

Just calling for the firing of one guy will not do it, it needs a plan it needs the depth of personal, that are able to develop a Team

Compare that with the US, who was at the test event, look at the coaching staf that was in HK. Look at the shows the US Riders went in the last 12 month and so on. In the US it is more an individual effort of the riders, its not a Team effort.

[I'm Lucy]

I don't think everything has to change. I think Amy T. could have ridden a slightly straighter line to the fence where she fell. I think Becky made a dumb mistake (happens to everyone, too bad hers was at the Olympic Games). Gina was brilliant but even she goofed up her lead changes, AND any one of the team members could go head to head with Gina and her horse on most days...Perhaps Karen's horse was too green to go to the Olympics and Buck would have been a better choice, but hindsight is 20/20... and Phillip did the best he could. I see no reason why everything should change. By the way, Mark does not dictate to his riders-- rather, he does suggest. Jack LeGoff was a coach who dictated every move. Mark is not popular with all the ULR's-- some have communication problems with him, and that does play into who succeeds in the current system of team training. I agree that our hard ground takes its toll on our horses, and I agree that we have a serious lack of depth of quality young horses being bred here, and being brought along correctly. Even if our riders are good enough, they need good horses. Sponsorship is a very costly endeavor. One must be truly dedicated. It takes an incredible amount of time to produce an upper level horse. Most riders could not afford to give away their time for free, no matter how nice the horse is. I think all of you are too quick to blame. Why do you feel it is necessary to point the finger?

[poltroon]

I would love to see a good pony program of pony dressage, pony jumpers, and pony eventing. We're doing a little, but what they have in Europe is just jaw dropping compared to what we do here.

I'm doing my part: I'm raising a kid and two ponies. :D

[canterlope]

By the way, Mark does not dictate to his riders-- rather, he does suggest. Jack LeGoff was a coach who dictated every move. Mark is not popular with all the ULR's-- some have communication problems with him, and that does play into who succeeds in the current system of team training. You say PO-ta-to, I say Po-Ta-to. I'm sorry, but telling upper level riders that they wouldn't make the team in 2004 if they ran the long format 4* at Rolex wasn't a suggestion in my book, but rather a dictation. And popularity or communication problems don't excuse the fact that good riders are not succeeding in the current system. Any coach worth his salt will find a way to make the team about the team, not about himself and his personal issues with potential team members.
Even if our riders are good enough, they need good horses. Sponsorship is a very costly endeavor. One must be truly dedicated. It takes an incredible amount of time to produce an upper level horse. Most riders could not afford to give away their time for free, no matter how nice the horse is. Funny, the lower level adult riders can't really afford to give their time for free either, yet they find a way to do it week in and week out volunteering at events. And besides, if the upper level riders I dealt with couldn't afford to give their time for free, they shouldn't have accepted the deal in the first place. That they did and then weren't willing to hold up their end of the bargain told me it all came down to money with them, not dedication.

[snoopy]

You say PO-ta-to, I say Po-Ta-to. I'm sorry, but telling upper level riders that they wouldn't make the team in 2004 if they ran the long format 4* at Rolex wasn't a suggestion in my book, but rather a dictation. And popularity or communication problems don't excuse the fact that good riders are not succeeding in the current system. Any coach worth his salt will find a way to make the team about the team, not about himself and his personal issues with potential team members.
And besides, if the upper level riders I dealt with couldn't afford to give their time for free, they shouldn't have accepted the deal in the first place. That they did and then weren't willing to hold up their end of the bargain told me it all came down to money with them, not dedication.



:winkgrin:

[Gnep]

can any one explain to me why Gina Miles is as of june 30 only 37th in the US ranking and goes to the Olympics, and is the only one that delivers ?

Canterlope,
you got a mare, realy good mare, I know a red coat that would kiss your feet and would pay for everything and you even don't have to wash your feet.

[pinkdiamondracing]

About eight years ago, I had some really nice horses that I though could make a go of it at the international level. I approached three upper level riders with the following proposal:

I would send them a horse on trial for thirty days. During those thirty days, I would pay full training fees in addition to any other hard costs incurred (hay, grain, vet, farrier, etc). At the end of thirty days, they would let me know if they thought the horse had what it took to be an international level eventer. If not, they would return the horse to me. If so, I would continue to pay hard costs, but the rider would not charge me training/showing fees. The riders had the ability to end the partnership at any time. In addition, if a reasonable purchase offer was made for the horse, we both would have to agree to sell it and any net profit would be equally shared.

All three riders agreed and I sent them each a horse. At the end of thirty days, all three said the horse I had sent them had international potential and they wanted to continue our partnership. However, before the end of the next thirty days, all three of them contacted me again to say they couldn't afford to not charge me training fees. Now bear in mind that none of them were being asked to pay for anything on behalf of my horses. Rather they were being given a free ride with all expenses paid along with the potential for making a profit at some point and all they had to do was invest some of their time. Since they were unwilling to hold up their end of the bargain, I terminated my partnerships with them, brought my horses home, and enjoyed them myself.

Personally, I would love to see one of the horses I've bred go up through the levels and compete at the top with any rider. So it isn't a matter of being unwilling to turn horses over to the upper level riders. It is a matter of wanting to be in a partnership with an upper level rider where both parties benefit instead of the upper level rider reaping all of the benefits without assuming any risks while I assume all of the costs and risks.

I think I know a UL rider who might just love that kind of deal!!!

[Ajierene]

ajierene,
you did not get the point, the German FN has a national coach for the ponie riders, the coach has a staff, those kids are trained, groomed, supported like The BNs. It is the base, the future, even if only 3 or 5 of them end up riding CCIs or CIC it paied of.

I do get it. I do get that Germany has an awesome program. Consider this, though - Germany's widest distance latitudinally is about 400 miles and longitudinally, about 500 miles. So, to get to the top trainers in Germany, you have to drive a maximum of say 9 hours, conservatively. The US is conservatively (I am measuring on the West Coast - the middle of the country is a bit longer) 1300 miles, or about 20 hours of driving. From West Coast to East Coast you are looking at about 3000 miles, or about 45 hours of driving.

Any really good program like the one Germany has includes being able to get the best trainers to the students. That may be a headquarters where the students go, a way to get the trainers out to the students or a combination of both.

The problem with a system like Germany's is that getting the top trainers to the riders or visa versa is much more difficult in such a large geographical area as the US. Where are you going to have the headquarters centrally located to where the students can get to them? How are you going to pay for the trainers to the students? Keep in mind, in the center of the US - not all that many eventing venues, so there is another consideration of building an eventing venue or training farm in the center of farming country.

This is why I don't think the German training program will work in the US - not because it isn't good, but because the US is to expansive for that. It can be used as a base and modified to fit the geographical issues of the US, as well as the cultural differences, but to say the German training program is the end all be all and needs to be put into the US without modification is a bit of a stretch, as far as I see.

[caevent]

Canterlope:

You can send all three of your horses to me out here in California! :cool: I'll campaign them happily! :D I own one very good horse, who will be very good in a few years, but the cost of bringing just one along is daunting, let alone a whole string. I wish there were some sort of network to bring aspiring, money-limited riders and great quality horses together.

[SR Rider]

I agaree with Ajiarene...the US of A is a huge country...our eventers are spread across the
width and breadth of it. That makes logisitics for shows, coaching, etc. pretty difficult.
You can get to Badminton from Europe in less time than California to Virginia.

Also, in England kids grow up fox hunting prior to tackling eventing.

In addition, to achieve the big bucks needed for sponsorships, etc. better news/sports coverage would certainly be a benefit. Maybe if our riders went half naked like the gals
in beach volleyball NBC would have showed cross country in prime time....I live in the Midwest and flat guarantee you we have more interest in horse sports than beach volleyball.

[Kanga]

SR Rider & Ajiarene -

I have one thing to say about what both of you are saying ....

If you want to be the best you can be in this sport then it is up to you to go where the best are. People have to relocate, that is what it takes sometime. Everyone has to set their own priorities in life but there are those people out there that are willing to give up everything to be able to train with the best it just depends on their level of dedication.

[snoopy]

SR Rider & Ajiarene -

I have one thing to say about what both of you are saying ....

If you want to be the best you can be in this sport then it is up to you to go where the best are. People have to relocate, that is what it takes sometime. Everyone has to set their own priorities in life but there are those people out there that are willing to give up everything to be able to train with the best it just depends on their level of dedication.


agreed. All this talk that we must send riders to europe to compete against the best then we should do the same on home soil and get the riders to where the best training, events, and competition is. You go where the work is. It is not surprising that when area 1 was the mecca that the team training centre was relocated from NJ to hamilton MA. And those riders invited to train with Jack moved...Most other sports with national training centres require moves in order to train with the best.
If I wanted to be a competitive downhill skier I would not base myself in florida.

[flyingchange]

also - our upper level "elite" riders get, I think, used to mediocrity - at least in SJ - because they compete against each other, and only against each other, every weekend. And there aren't very many of them. And they compete over the same CDs courses. If they really want to improve beyond their current plateau, then they should get out there and do some REAL jumper shows. Get their asses kicked a little by some "no-names," and then perhaps the reality check would get them working on improving themselves and their horses by the amount necessary to be elite on the world stage.

Same for dressage.

They are all very used to being top-dogs and boy they are in for a rude awakening when they get outside of their comfort zone (the east coast of the US).

[Gnep]

ajirene,you are perfectly right, pointing out the goegraphicle problems of the US verses Europe.
This is such a huge country and living out west I know it to well.

But at no level there is a comprehensive program to bring along the next generation, there is one national coach, period, thats it.


You have to be on the list to get any support.

I ask it again why did number 37 US ranking pulled it of, were was she in the last 12 month ?
62 national points against 531.

[subk]

can any one explain to me why Gina Miles is as of june 30 only 37th in the US ranking and goes to the Olympics, and is the only one that delivers ?
This might help: http://useventing.com/competitions.php?id=831&horse_id=9766

[Kanga]

Gina & McKinlaigh have been together and competing at the top for quite some time. It is no surprise that she did this well, they are a pair that have a lot of history together. I picked McKinlaigh & Gina up this year to run Rolex (off the Airplane from Cali) and took a look at his passport to see what he had done. It was shocking how many pages he had filled with CCI/CIC. This was long overdue for her. She deserved it and I'm so happy it happened for her now with this horse.

[Eventrgrl]

also - our upper level "elite" riders get, I think, used to mediocrity - at least in SJ - because they compete against each other, and only against each other, every weekend. And there aren't very many of them. And they compete over the same CDs courses. If they really want to improve beyond their current plateau, then they should get out there and do some REAL jumper shows. Get their asses kicked a little by some "no-names," and then perhaps the reality check would get them working on improving themselves and their horses by the amount necessary to be elite on the world stage.

Same for dressage.

They are all very used to being top-dogs and boy they are in for a rude awakening when they get outside of their comfort zone (the east coast of the US).


Actually I think this year more than ever US' dressage and SJ were really quite competative with the other top nations. The XC turned out to be a huge bust for the team but that is out of the norm for the most part.

[three_dayer]

Gina lives on the west coast...there are 5 advanced courses up and down the coast,to get from ram tap to galway downs its around 12 hrs...to get to rebecca farms it takes around 24 hrs, and to get back east without flying the horse it takes around 3-4 days, for an advanced horse(or any horse) that is a lot of distance to travel and I think that she was saving her horse for the ones that matter.(like the olympics)..Those 2 have been partners for years and they know each other very well....

[dwhite]

Gina accumulated her points riding one horse. Most of the other advanced riders accumulated their points on mutiple horses. FWIW

[Carol Ames]

hardened riders exceptional horses:yes:



I wish we we had an "outpost " in England where we could send a few horses and riders to live,train and compete, as Karen and David did:yes:
I'd say we need more riders with the right horses, always a need. I'd also like to see a bunch of our riders going to Badminton next year. They need more chances to ride internationally, and that means money for plane tickets.

greed!:yes:

[Maryalden]

Kanga, wish I'd been with you guys to pick up Gina. Oh well, next year (the fresh, fried veggies are on me!). Good luck this weekend. :)

[Dawnd]

Using only this Olympics as example:

First - coaching.
The directive of any coach to the first person to go (whether it's a swimming, running or gymnastics) should have been - "go clean". Don't go overboard, just go clean and leave it to the anchor rider to take risks. If this was not the directive of CMP, he should be fired.

Second riding.
The first rider should have gone clean at all costs. If the first horse/rider on a team can't control their ride enough to go clean, they shouldn't be on the team. period. Sure there might be mistakes that can't be avoided but this combo did not look like a combination that was riding to go clean at all costs. (IMHO)

Third leadership.
The fact that the USEF took the blame for not informing Dutton of the rule change was completely lame. The chef d'equip should know EVERY SINGLE rule inside-out and upside-down. That's his/her ultimate responsibility. Where is the leadership when someone else says "oops"? Can you really say that you are doing your job when something like this happens?

Fourth Leadership.
Isn't there a conflict of interest in the president of the USEF is coaching a foreign team?

Fifth Horsemanship.
The goal of every equestrian should be to get the best out of the horse. Not to win but to get the best possible performance given what are the horses qualities and frame of mind for the day. Not every rider had that attitude.

These are of course my very humble opinions as I aspire to be a smurf and haven't yet made it to that level.

[snoopy]

Using only this Olympics as example:

First - coaching.
The directive of any coach to the first person to go (whether it's a swimming, running or gymnastics) should have been - "go clean". Don't go overboard, just go clean and leave it to the anchor rider to take risks. If this was not the directive of CMP, he should be fired.

Second riding.
The first rider should have gone clean at all costs. If the first horse/rider on a team can't control their ride enough to go clean, they shouldn't be on the team. period. Sure there might be mistakes that can't be avoided but this combo did not look like a combination that was riding to go clean at all costs. (IMHO)

Third leadership.
The fact that the USEF took the blame for not informing Dutton of the rule change was completely lame. The chef d'equip should know EVERY SINGLE rule inside-out and upside-down. That's his/her ultimate responsibility. Where is the leadership when someone else says "oops"? Can you really say that you are doing your job when something like this happens?

Fourth Leadership.
Isn't there a conflict of interest in the president of the USEF is coaching a foreign team?

Fifth Horsemanship.
The goal of every equestrian should be to get the best out of the horse. Not to win but to get the best possible performance given what are the horses qualities and frame of mind for the day. Not every rider had that attitude.

These are of course my very humble opinions as I aspire to be a smurf and haven't yet made it to that level.

Careful someone might think you were my alter...;)

[Jazzy Lady]

It would probably be more of a conflict in interest for him to coach his own wife...

[poltroon]

also - our upper level "elite" riders get, I think, used to mediocrity - at least in SJ - because they compete against each other, and only against each other, every weekend. And there aren't very many of them. And they compete over the same CDs courses. If they really want to improve beyond their current plateau, then they should get out there and do some REAL jumper shows. Get their asses kicked a little by some "no-names," and then perhaps the reality check would get them working on improving themselves and their horses by the amount necessary to be elite on the world stage.

Same for dressage.

They are all very used to being top-dogs and boy they are in for a rude awakening when they get outside of their comfort zone (the east coast of the US).

I think quite a lot of them do. Several of our top event riders went to Florida to ride and show with Laura Kraut over the winter, and here in California, event riders regularly kick butt in straight dressage shows.

[quietann]

Using only this Olympics as example:
Fourth Leadership.
Isn't there a conflict of interest in the president of the USEF is coaching a foreign team?


I like your list, except for this one. One of the things I like about eventers is that they (generally) help each other out, and sometimes that means working against one's best competitive interest. E.g. the Chinese rider was coached in the UK by riders from NZ; now of course he isn't yet competitive, but someday he might be. And at the moment, I am desperately hoping that some BNT, preferably an American, takes on Pawel Spisak as a trainee. Not just because I'd love to see such eye candy in the US ;), but because he's such a sportsman, at a young age... and I suspect that with more training and support, he'd beat the pants off most of the really good riders.