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View Full Version : What's with the weird releases??



xEchox
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:35 AM
I noticed during cross country and now the jumping that several of the riders are having abnormal(atleast to me) releases. I believe it was Gina? That was releasing like that...Maybe it's normal but i've never seen it before....

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:40 AM
Eventers are not hunters. They go for function over form. Coming from a hunter/Equitation barn, I cringe at some of the releases and form over fences, but after competing in eventing for a while, I come to realize that sometimes it takes a bit of a different form. I think everyone can benefit from learning proper equitation, but not everyone learns this - they learn the function part.

quietann
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:42 AM
Agree with Ajierene here -- there are lots of different releases and some work better for different horses and riders. No one is "judging" eq directly so why not use what works best?

ideayoda
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:46 AM
Certainly the caprilli seat is disappearing, agreed.

vineyridge
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:50 AM
Certainly the caprilli seat is disappearing, agreed.

Yup. Eventers seem to have gone back to the old foxhunting seat. It may be a function of poor teaching, or it may be fear. Defensive riding is back seat riding.:yes:

Nikki^
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:50 AM
Certainly the caprilli seat is disappearing, agreed.

Not really. Did you see Mark Todd's ride? Perfect form over the fences. His leg didn't budge at all and his releases were very nice. Some of the other riders had excellent form too.

Jazzy Lady
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:54 AM
You have to remember that it is not the show jumping you see on TV. These horses just came off xc the day before and are a bit tired and often stiff. The last thing they did also involved very fast speeds and jumping out of a gallop. The fences they rode yesterday do not fall when the horse hits them with their feet and requires a much different ride. For the rider and the horse to adapt to the new environment the following day requires a much different ride than what you see in the hunters. Often these horses are getting nursed around the course and require as much support as a rider can offer. Eventers will tend to use an automatic release or a short crest release so it is easier to balance the horse when he lands off the fence, particularily if they are a bit flat, so they don't get boogying in xc mode. These tired horses won't pick themselves up like a well rested hunter or jumper. They are trained to go in several different fashions. ;)

McKinleigh is also a very large horse and Gina is a very small lady. She does a wonderful job, but he can easily take advantage of a loopy rein and get strung out and very long. Gina keeps that contact so she can keep the rideability, balance and fluidity throughout the course. :)

THe back seat comes back to xc and also riding these tired horses around sj for a clean round. Gotta stay off their shoulders and "git 'er done". These courses now a days need backseat riding on xc. Then you take tired ponies and you give them all the ride you can.

Seven-up
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:56 AM
I noticed a lot of people yanking on the takeoff; you know the ones who look like they're physically trying to lift the horse's front end off the ground? Am I misinterpreting that? I see it sometimes in the jumpers, but noticed a lot of it yesterday and today.

xEchox
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:59 AM
That makes alot of sense. Wasn't sure if it was rider error on their part;crazy releases or what. So thank you SO much for replying to my question =).

CiegoStar
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:02 AM
I noticed a lot of people yanking on the takeoff; you know the ones who look like they're physically trying to lift the horse's front end off the ground? Am I misinterpreting that? I see it sometimes in the jumpers, but noticed a lot of it yesterday and today.

What you're seeing is the first phase of the following hand or automatic release. As the horse jumps up with his front legs, his neck shortens, and in order to maintain light contact with the mouth the rider's hand comes back. The next phase is the horse stretching horizontally over the fence, and the rider's hand comes forward and down. Some riders do this with more finesse with others. The "jerking" you're seeing is the less-finesse'd.

gully's pilot
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:04 PM
As far as defensive riding goes, sometimes on xc it is completely necessary if you want to stay in the tack. A jump off a drop is the prime example, though there are others. Remember that the terrain is part of the course; it's not flat like jumpers and hunters.

Renn/aissance
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:15 PM
Not really. Did you see Mark Todd's ride? Perfect form over the fences. His leg didn't budge at all and his releases were very nice. Some of the other riders had excellent form too.

Hear, hear. I made my sister sit down and be totally quiet when Mark Todd was on the screen. I'm totally amazed at how well the "rusty" "old geezer" can equitate around an Olympic XC course.

Mommy, I wanna be Mark Todd when I grow up...

vineyridge
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:25 PM
As far as defensive riding goes, sometimes on xc it is completely necessary if you want to stay in the tack. A jump off a drop is the prime example, though there are others. Remember that the terrain is part of the course; it's not flat like jumpers and hunters.

Agreed that sometimes back seat riding is necessary; but I'll contend that it's not necessary as often as so many eventers do it. If you're a steeplechase jockey with steeplechase jockeys' legs, you can keep off your horse's back, even when when you appear to be sitting down at the top of a non-drop jump. I'm not sure that most eventers have those legs, though. Olympic caliber ones undoubtedly do.

Caprilli was a cavalry officer who invented his seat for cross country because it was easier for the horse to self balance. Too bad it's getting lost. That may be the result of not as much foxhunting for people who thrive on XC. JMHO

Fallbrook
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:02 PM
Riders "release" to allow the horse full use of his body for the jump. The notion that you must therefore place your hands here or there is an invention that allows others to determine whether or not you conform to their particular standard of equitation and are, therefore, subject to ridicule.

If the rider stays in balance with the horse over the fence, the horse is free to jump, and jumps clear, I don't see why it makes a bit of difference where the hands go, as long as they are not making rude gestures at the crowds.

sisu27
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:07 PM
Yup. Eventers seem to have gone back to the old foxhunting seat. It may be a function of poor teaching, or it may be fear. Defensive riding is back seat riding.:yes:

I have to say I would rather see that than a hunter perch (which I have seen at the lower levels and scares the $hit out of me).

When I came back to eventing after doing the hunters (I won in the eqs too) I had to work hard to get myself riding a little more "backseat-ish". Obviously neither is good eq but one is most definately safer than the other. I also had to re-learn an auto release. My green horse would land in a heap if not and I now pretty much put myself where ever I feel I am hindering least and helping most. Wouldn't pin me in the hunter ring but gets the job done.

To me good eq should be function over form and yes, check out Mark Todd for an example of what it outta look like. He's amazing.

Tackpud
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:21 PM
So many of the pictures you see of the eventers have absolutely perfect eq on cross-country - I wish the hunter riders would copy them. Lots of depth in the heel (sometimes too much foot in the stirrup for my taste, but they need to stay on so I understand it), beautiful automatic releases, eyes up, back flat. I love looking at their pictures compared to the hunter pictures - and I'm a hunter/jumper trainer!

imapepper
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:43 PM
Hear, hear. I made my sister sit down and be totally quiet when Mark Todd was on the screen. I'm totally amazed at how well the "rusty" "old geezer" can equitate around an Olympic XC course.

Mommy, I wanna be Mark Todd when I grow up...

:yes: Me too! His cross country was beautiful too. It was a pleasure to watch.

vineyridge
Aug. 12, 2008, 04:44 PM
Now I'm going to put on my flame suit, but the way Mary King rides XC just creeps me out. Half the time she looks like a chicken flapping her wings, and the rest of the time (over jumps) she is so far in the back seat, she's almost off the tail.

That second to last jump of hers that was shown was incredible, unbelievable, and scared the bejeezus out me as a spectator. Her horse is a miracle.

Mark Todd was a textbook on how to ride XC effectively, as I'm sure (if they had showed any of him) was William Fox Pitt.

Eventer13
Aug. 12, 2008, 05:07 PM
Mary King is pretty damn effective, even if she's not pretty. Phillips eq is pretty bad, too, but you can't deny that his horses go fantastically. I would think that if either of these riders' positions were hindering their horse they would not be getting the results that they do.

DancingQueen
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:47 PM
If I remember correctly, Mark Todd competed in the Olympics in show jumping twice. It really shows. There's a home video clip on youtube btw. So so quality but you can still tell what an excellent rider and horse.

FEIwannabe
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:13 PM
I have 2 questions:
What is a caprilli seat?
What is a hunter perch?
Can someone post links to a picture?

I guess that's 3 questions.

vineyridge
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:24 PM
Don't have a picture of a hunter perch, but here is a lovely picture of a caprilli seat--

Anne FS
Aug. 13, 2008, 12:40 AM
What is a hunter perch?
Can someone post links to a picture?


Leaf through the pages of any hunter magazine, including the COH, and you'll see it over and over again. ;)

JSwan
Aug. 13, 2008, 08:45 AM
Hunter perch aka cat in heat pose aka praying mantis position.


Leaf through the pages of any hunter magazine, including the COH, and you'll see it over and over again. ;)