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View Full Version : Eventing's New Rider Fall Rule



pony grandma
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:29 PM
Well how did it look to you while watching?

I was impressed. It is bitterly disappointing, but the riders seemed to handle it well. It came across as looking very sportmanslike. No one got hurt, rider, nor horse. It was one of those 'hey, call it a day' judgments that happens in life. It looked like an example was being set.

Maybe it will give "Get Over It" new meaning now.

Mardi
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:32 PM
No problem with it here. Ya fall off, you're done. Next !

I thought the course looked gorgeous...on the grass, through the trees....beautiful.

snoopy
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:35 PM
I am and have been for it...like anything new..it will take time but everyone will get used to it.

jumpjesterjump
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:46 PM
i felt kind of bad for the first Chinese eventer to go (he fell early) and you could see that he was mixed mad/disapointed in falling off. i agree with the new rule to a certain extent. yes it could be safer in the long run, but for a lot of people eventing on a budget a fall can throw a wrench in your season if you are unable to finish a competiton. Growing up i was only able to go to a few events a year and if i had the one fall your out rule it would have been a couple less completions (gaining experience). If you aren't allowed to get back on after you fall you could lose confidence (i did, when i was unable to get back on (due too sprains and or horse pulling two front shoes) and keep going, it was quite awhile before i could go to the next event) or you are on a young horse then it is harder the next time to get over the "bogey fence, scary shadow, etc..."

There is a time and place to keep the rider from re mounting but i think we need to do more research before making a big change to the sport.

snoopy
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:07 AM
i felt kind of bad for the first Chinese eventer to go (he fell early) and you could see that he was mixed mad/disapointed in falling off. i agree with the new rule to a certain extent. yes it could be safer in the long run, but for a lot of people eventing on a budget a fall can throw a wrench in your season if you are unable to finish a competiton. Growing up i was only able to go to a few events a year and if i had the one fall your out rule it would have been a couple less completions (gaining experience). If you aren't allowed to get back on after you fall you could lose confidence (i did, when i was unable to get back on (due too sprains and or horse pulling two front shoes) and keep going, it was quite awhile before i could go to the next event) or you are on a young horse then it is harder the next time to get over the "bogey fence, scary shadow, etc..."

There is a time and place to keep the rider from re mounting but i think we need to do more research before making a big change to the sport.




so you are more concerned about your budget then your safety?

Mardi
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:16 AM
"If you aren't allowed to get back on after you fall you could lose confidence...."


If you fall off, and are eliminated, are you allowed to go back to the warm-up area and get back on and school for a few minutes ?

tbgurl
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:19 AM
I think it's a good rule, as long as you are allowed to go back to the warm-up and school once you've fallen.

ETA: So long as you and horsie check out fine, that is. I think it's important to get back over a few jumps so confidence isn't lost. My trainer would always say, "Are you ok? Alright, get back up and try it again!"

jumpjesterjump
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:34 AM
i'm not more concerned about my budget than my safety. Safety always comes first, i am saying that if you are physically fine you should be allowed to continue. I have had my share of falls (in competition and at home). I have always (when able) gotten back on and tried the jump again, that was how i was taught growing up, you always get back on.

I did ask permission at a horse trials before to school a young horse over some warmup fences after having a fall, and retiring (it was his 2nd or 3rd event). They allowed me too, it was a boost of confidence for him and me (him: that mom isn't scary when we jump, me that i got back up and did it.)

snoopy
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:40 AM
i'm not more concerned about my budget than my safety. Safety always comes first, i am saying that if you are physically fine you should be allowed to continue. I have had my share of falls (in competition and at home). I have always (when able) gotten back on and tried the jump again, that was how i was taught growing up, you always get back on.
)


But there in lies the problem...it is to prevent riders from continuing when the think they are fine but are actually not. Always getting back on has consequences.

Kenike
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:10 AM
In H/J we are eliminated with one fall. We can go pop a couple schooling fences, but not in the show ring. Different world, I know, but similar consequences during competition.

I think it was a good thing. *Maybe* letting the lowest levels get back on and continue, so long as horse and rider are okay, but I like the 1 fall and your out rule.

Ibex
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:15 AM
It's so hard to tell, even at the lower levels. We had a PT kid get back on her horse, and it wasn't until she started galloping around completly confused that anyone realized there was an issue and flagged her down.

paw
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:21 AM
I haven't been paying close enough attention - does the "fall and out" rule only apply to falls at fences, or other falls on course, too? I'd suppose it's perfectly possible to be bucked (or spooked) off while galloping between fences - that never used to matter (aside from time faults). Did it change?

I did feel for the one rider last night who came off on the way to the misting tents. Wasn't quite clear what happened - she might have tried to do a jockey (flying) dismount and got caught in the stirrup... Anyway, no more than embarrassing, poor thing...

ponyjumper4
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:26 AM
Aside from the safety issue, it's a competition. If you fall off, you should be done. Period. It's an extreme error to separate from your horse and should be looked at in such a way.

On a side note, just thought you guys might want to know that Amy Tryon is actually 16 years old, at least according to my NBC news tonight when it showed her fall.

snoopy
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:29 AM
Aside from the safety issue, it's a competition. If you fall off, you should be done. Period. It's an extreme error to separate from your horse and should be looked at in such a way.

On a side note, just thought you guys might want to know that Amy Tryon is actually 16 years old, at least according to my NBC news tonight when it showed her fall.



just saw that on NBC17

knz66
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:05 AM
I am sure Amy would love being called 16 again!!! LOL

strawberry roan
Aug. 12, 2008, 06:28 AM
Regarding the rule, I think it is good. Regarding those commentators, as glad as I was to see the coverage, they made me go "huh??" :)

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:42 AM
"If you aren't allowed to get back on after you fall you could lose confidence...."


If you fall off, and are eliminated, are you allowed to go back to the warm-up area and get back on and school for a few minutes ?
There is no rule against it (unless you are riding dangerously). I have done it in the past.

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:43 AM
I haven't been paying close enough attention - does the "fall and out" rule only apply to falls at fences, or other falls on course, too? ...Only falls related to fences.

ctanner
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:52 AM
If you have a fall and your horse is hurt so you can't get back on,do you lose your confidence?

Jealoushe
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:12 AM
i felt kind of bad for the first Chinese eventer to go (he fell early) and you could see that he was mixed mad/disapointed in falling off. i agree with the new rule to a certain extent. yes it could be safer in the long run, but for a lot of people eventing on a budget a fall can throw a wrench in your season if you are unable to finish a competiton. Growing up i was only able to go to a few events a year and if i had the one fall your out rule it would have been a couple less completions (gaining experience). If you aren't allowed to get back on after you fall you could lose confidence (i did, when i was unable to get back on (due too sprains and or horse pulling two front shoes) and keep going, it was quite awhile before i could go to the next event) or you are on a young horse then it is harder the next time to get over the "bogey fence, scary shadow, etc..."

There is a time and place to keep the rider from re mounting but i think we need to do more research before making a big change to the sport.



If you lose your confidence THAT badly that you wont get on another horse unless its right after you fall, then eventing is not the sport for you!

Jazzy Lady
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:21 AM
I got bitten by it at my last event. It's bitterly disappointing, but I still agree with it.

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:25 AM
I am for the rule. Not that I was picketing for it previously, but I don't see the big deal. If you fell off your horse, it isn't your day. Pack up and go home (yes, I have done this).

Similar to what Jumpjesterjump has stated - the biggest voice of complaints about this rule are the people that seem to fall off regularly. Jumpjesterjump noted numerous falls both inside and outside of competition. If you are falling that much that it really kills your competition year, you might want to rethink what you are doing.

I scrimp and save and between many personal and financial issues I will make three unrecognized events this year. I was eliminated due to a fall at one. That means two events where I complete....sucks, but such is life. Fall off, not your day, school the problem and come back another day. You have a spooky horse that can jump 2'9", don't take him Novice where he is jumping his height, take him Beginner Novice or to some unrecognized shows at even lower levels. Be intelligent about it, don't complain because you cannot stay on.

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:59 AM
Similar to what Jumpjesterjump has stated - the biggest voice of complaints about this rule are the people that seem to fall off regularly. Jumpjesterjump noted numerous falls both inside and outside of competition. If you are falling that much that it really kills your competition year, you might want to rethink what you are doing.
I don't know about "regularly", but I have more falls on my record than I would like. And I am in favor of the new rule.

2 tbs
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:14 AM
Ok, so if the rider falls in the cross country they are eliminated all together? They aren't allowed to come back for the stadium?? Or did those riders choose not to come back as their scores wouldn't count anyway? I'm so confused.

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:19 AM
Ok, so if the rider falls in the cross country they are eliminated all together? They aren't allowed to come back for the stadium?? Or did those riders choose not to come back as their scores wouldn't count anyway? I'm so confused.

They cannot come back and do stadium. The only place where you are allowed to continue - at the organizer's discretion - are unrecognized events. Similar to schooling shows in the hunter and dressage world. The rider would still be eliminated, the organizers just allow them to continue so they can school their horse further. In recognized shows, you should not need schooling so pack up and go home, you were eliminated.

The best way to think about it is that dressage/cross country/stadium are one really long class....so you fell off and were eliminated from the class.

2 tbs
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:47 AM
Oh wow. That's a super huge bummer! I can understand the rule at that level but it's still a bummer!:(

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:51 AM
They cannot come back and do stadium. The only place where you are allowed to continue - at the organizer's discretion - are unrecognized events. Actually, it is permitted at USEF recognized events, and it is at the discretion of the ground jury (in colsultation with the organizers).


4. DISQUALIFICATION OR ELIMINATION.
a. The disqualification or elimination from one of the tests entails disqualification or
elimination from the final classification.
b. The Ground Jury, in consultation with the Organizing Committee, may, if requested,
permit a competitor who has been eliminated in an earlier Test to take part in the subsequent
Test(s). After elimination in any previous Test, any competitor who starts a subsequent
Test without such permission will be liable to disciplinary action, including a reprimand
and/or a fine of up to $100. payable to the Organizing Committee.
c. A competitor who withdraws or retires a horse is considered to have withdrawn or
retired from the entire competition and will not be permitted to continue in subsequent
tests with that horse, except with the expressed permission of the ground jury.

But not under FEI rules

4. Disqualification or Elimination
Disqualification or elimination from one of the tests entails disqualification or elimination
from the final classification.

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:08 AM
Actually, it is permitted at USEF recognized events, and it is at the discretion of the ground jury (in colsultation with the organizers).


But not under FEI rules

Now you tell me!

Where were you last year when I was eliminated in stadium for a fall and bummed because the cross country course looked really nice. I cannot remember if I asked the organizers anything - I was pretty upset (with myself mostly, it was a dumb fall and I should have known better).

EDIT: This makes the other complaint fairly invalid - the complaint about not being able to at least school the next phase because you were eliminated in one.

zannebar
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:27 PM
Sorry, non-eventer coming in with a probably dumb question: if this fall-once-and-you're-eliminated rule is new, what was the old rule? Were you allowed two falls or something?

Thanks!

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:56 PM
Sorry, non-eventer coming in with a probably dumb question: if this fall-once-and-you're-eliminated rule is new, what was the old rule? Were you allowed two falls or something?

Thanks!
First "fall of rider" was 65 penalties.
Second "fall of rider" was Elimination
First "fall of horse" was Mandatory Retirement.

But long ago you could continue after fall of horse as well.

FlightCheck
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:57 PM
used to be you were eliminated on the 2nd fall of rider.

100yrs ago when I started eventing, I don't recall there being ANY rule about falls - you got points if you didn't stay on past the penalty zone, but I seem to remember people falling more than 2x (or maybe my memory is going too!)

jumpjesterjump
Aug. 12, 2008, 05:50 PM
If you lose your confidence THAT badly that you wont get on another horse unless its right after you fall, then eventing is not the sport for you!

i didn't say that. i have fallen in competition 3 times, at home more than that (when i was growing up, a lot in the past 3-5 years once or twice). the couple of times i fell in competition i was moving up to the next level and it was usually a "stupid fall" i.e horse looked hard and jumped big (jumping me out of the tack), or the other one was horse tripped on landing and i went over his nose.

I wouldn't say i lost all of my confidence it was usually the first time out after a fall that i was a little nervous (i was lucky enough to have a really good, confidence giving horse). I have been eventing for quite awhile, but growing up we didn't get to go school very much, some of the jumps at the shows were sometimes the first time seeing it.

*now though i have the ability to get out and school more before a show and after any incidents that may arise at a show.

Kenike
Aug. 12, 2008, 06:40 PM
Given the example of it sometimes being so hard to tell, and the knowledge of that being so true, I do have to say that my comment on it maybe being okay at the lower levels to continue on is now being recanted.
If all is truly alright, then maybe a little school in the w/u ring to boost horse/rider confidence if such is needed.

But I'm still all for the rule. I think it's a good one, even if it does muck up the finances for some.

MissIndependence
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:05 PM
i'm not more concerned about my budget than my safety. Safety always comes first, i am saying that if you are physically fine you should be allowed to continue. I have had my share of falls (in competition and at home). I have always (when able) gotten back on and tried the jump again, that was how i was taught growing up, you always get back on.

I did ask permission at a horse trials before to school a young horse over some warmup fences after having a fall, and retiring (it was his 2nd or 3rd event). They allowed me too, it was a boost of confidence for him and me (him: that mom isn't scary when we jump, me that i got back up and did it.)


I'm not an eventer - but frankly never understood that rule. In show jumping - if we fall - we're eliminated. Done. Why was it ever different in eventing???

Gnep
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:08 PM
what is the big deal, you get dumped in dressage you are out, you get dumped in stadium you are out. so why are still people questioning the X-C rule

Janet
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:09 PM
what is the big deal, you get dumped in dressage you are out,
Not so.

snoopy
Aug. 12, 2008, 07:10 PM
what is the big deal, you get dumped in dressage you are out, you get dumped in stadium you are out. so why are still people questioning the X-C rule


Exactly but I do believe that a fall of rider in dressage is not E