PDA

View Full Version : What happenned to Team USA



TeddyRocks
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:29 PM
I work nights and just got up... And much to my horror... I see Amys out and Karen, Becky and Phillip are 54th (!!!), 48th(!!!) and 14th (not too bad considering)...

GO Gina and McKinliegh for their 5th place standings...

What happened, and what does this mean for ANY medals? Is there somewhere online to watch the rides?

Thanks,

BAC
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:52 PM
Amy fell off, Becky and Karen had refusals, Gina and Phillip jumped around clear. See the "live feed" threads for more details and comments. You can watch it at nbcolympics.com.

Dressage62
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:56 PM
USA is about to get beaten by Italy and Sweden in eventing!!! Oh, dear!
It will be interesting to hear our eventing coach Capt. Phillips spin on things.
If only....Karen O'Connor still had "Teddy."
If only...Bonnie Mosser didn't have to drop out.
If only....Heidi White didn't have to drop out.

I know all the riders/grooms/support staff did their best.
No one wants to do badly-- but horse sports are never a guarantee.
Except for that Headly Britannia-- just unbeatable in all phases.

linquest
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:11 PM
Wow, anyone know the last time USA didn't medal in eventing?

Mary in Area 1
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:14 PM
Lucinda Fredericks is one of the nicest people on earth, and an incredible horsewoman. If it can't be an American, let the cream rise to the top!

Equibrit
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:17 PM
But she's British!

dogchushu
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:19 PM
Amy fell off, Becky and Karen had refusals, Gina and Phillip jumped around clear. See the "live feed" threads for more details and comments. You can watch it at nbcolympics.com.

Yup! Amy came off at about fence 10. She and Poggio look to be fine. Becky had a run out, and then crossed her path when circling back to the fence (so it counted as a refusal and a run out). Karen had a run out early o, then took a straight line through some angled brush fences on second to last jump on course, and had a refusal.

Watch the online footage or check out Oxygen tonight from 6 to 8 pm ET. We didn't get to see much of Becky's ride and only saw Karen's refusal (not the earlier runout). From the limited portions I saw, neither were riding poorly. They had judgement errors that were very costly but also unlucky. Poggio looked like he was running off with Amy. What she could have/couldn't have or should have/shouldn't have done is currently a debate on some of the other threads! :D

tbeventer
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:19 PM
'92 in Barcelona was a tragic year for the US in eventing... I was quite young, but remember Todd Trewin had quite a disasterous XC which led to folks really stepping it up on how to make horses most comfortable after coming off XC. I believe Jill Walton finished quite low, as well. I think it's one of those years we don't really like to talk about.

Then, '96, Jill Henenburg (sp?) had a fall at or near the water jump. I believe the team did medal that year, but had to rely on the 3 best scores and toss hers.

However, this isn't a disaster... Gina is right in there, as is Phillip, so not all is lost for the US!

What is even more cool is that Germany is back with Ingrid Klimke doing superb once again! Remember, Ingrid got her gold pulled in '04 when she supposedly tripped the timer in the start box for XC, although not leaving early. Goes to show that she is definately NOT a name that comes and then goes again in eventing... (No, I'm not German, but glad to see her continuing her success!)

Mary in Area 1
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:22 PM
But she's British!

Yeah, that's why I said, "if it (meaning top rider) can't be an American..."

I would just love to see her do well at the Olympics. By the way, she was brought up in the UK and still lives there, but by marrying Clayton, she is formally Australian and riding for that team.

snoopy
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:24 PM
What is even more cool is that Germany is back with Ingrid Klimke doing superb once again! Remember, Ingrid got her gold pulled in '04 when she supposedly tripped the timer in the start box for XC, although not leaving early. Goes to show that she is definately NOT a name that comes and then goes again in eventing... (No, I'm not German, but glad to see her continuing her success!)


Check your facts.....

JERinNJ
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:35 PM
Wow, anyone know the last time USA didn't medal in eventing?

That last time, as a team, couple years ago at the WEGs (4th by VERY little).

Dont count us out for an individual medal just yet for this year.

Janet
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:37 PM
. By the way, she was brought up in the UK and still lives there, but by marrying Clayton, she is formally Australian and riding for that team.
Not quite that simple. Marrying someone of a different nationality doesn't automatically give you a different nationality.

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:41 PM
Okay, I must confess...I loved the two German horses...Butts Leone and Hilrich (I'm sure I mispelled that)...are those two horses, hanoverians? Hilrich had the most incrediable gallop last night and Butts Leone was just beautiful to watch in the dressage.

I didn't get to see all the coverage either night....but those two really stood out. I also liked the gray Australian horse that was on course at the same time as Hilrich.

I only saw Becky's ride last night for team USA

linquest
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:46 PM
'92 in Barcelona was a tragic year for the US in eventing... I believe Jill Walton finished quite low, as well. I think it's one of those years we don't really like to talk about.

That's right, I remember now. Jill had the highest US indiv score but wasn't even in the top 10.

huntrpaint
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:48 PM
Where are the live feeds? I have had no luck with the NBC website and can't find anywhere else with live feeds. With my work schedule that will be the only way I can wathc. Thanks!!!

snoopy
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:50 PM
For some time she did infact ride for australia...changed with the FEI...and could have competed at the WEG BEFORE receiving her AU passport. Christian Plage rode in the WEG for switzerland before having a swiss passport. Both of these riders were unable to compete in an olympics until they held a passport of the country they are representing. (both had pending applications for citizenship at the time)
Now the FEI has cracked down and will not allow any changes once you register (as of june this year). So if you hold dual nationality be careful who you register as riding for because according to them, you can only change if you actually give up citizenship to the country you are registered with the FEI and therefor must register with the remaining citizenship.
Lucinda was very open about the reason for her change...she is also a grand prix dressage rider and she felt that she would have more of a chance of making a national team riding for AU then the very competitve British team places.

BAC
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:52 PM
I believe Jill Walton finished quite low, as well. I think it's one of those years we don't really like to talk about.

What is even more cool is that Germany is back with Ingrid Klimke doing superb once again! Remember, Ingrid got her gold pulled in '04 when she supposedly tripped the timer in the start box for XC, although not leaving early. Goes to show that she is definately NOT a name that comes and then goes again in eventing... (No, I'm not German, but glad to see her continuing her success!)

You are misinformed, Jil Walton did a great job, Patrona was young and relatively inexperienced so she took it slow but had a beautiful ride, in fact she later commented during her interview that she was not really expecting much except to give her mare experience for the World Games a couple of years down the road. She ended up being the US' top rider IIRC.

And that was NOT Ingrid Klimke - it was Bettina Hoy who lost her gold medal. Ingrid is awesome, I hope she finishes well, I would love to see her get an individual medal.

poltroon
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:00 PM
'92 in Barcelona was a tragic year for the US in eventing... I was quite young, but remember Todd Trewin had quite a disasterous XC which led to folks really stepping it up on how to make horses most comfortable after coming off XC. I believe Jill Walton finished quite low, as well. I think it's one of those years we don't really like to talk about.

Jil finished 11th that year as the highest placing American. Mike Plumb and the young Adonis had a fall, and Steven Bradley had a stop with Sassy Reason.


What is even more cool is that Germany is back with Ingrid Klimke doing superb once again! Remember, Ingrid got her gold pulled in '04 when she supposedly tripped the timer in the start box for XC, although not leaving early. Goes to show that she is definately NOT a name that comes and then goes again in eventing... (No, I'm not German, but glad to see her continuing her success!)

I'm very happy to see Ingrid Klimke doing so well - she is fantastic. However, you're thinking of Bettina Hoy who went through the flags twice at Athens.

Janet
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:05 PM
However, you're thinking of Bettina Hoy who went through the flags twice at Athens.
In show jumping, not cross country.

yaya
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:07 PM
Where are the live feeds? I have had no luck with the NBC website and can't find anywhere else with live feeds. With my work schedule that will be the only way I can wathc. Thanks!!!


Don't go to the main NBC site, go to www.nbcolympics.com (http://www.nbcolympics.com) and click on "Video" on the top bar.

vineyridge
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:15 PM
So how much bonus do we think the Captain will haul in for THESE Games? Heh heh. :cool:

He's been publicly bitching in the British press about the lack of US depth in both riders and horses. But look what got sent to the Pan Am Games and as the replacement horse and rider for these Olympics.

Dixon
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:16 PM
Hey gang, I know relatively little about cross-country courses. Borrowing from showjumping, was this course designed as a "power" course that favors massive jumping efforts over good galloping speed? Just wondering if that's affecting the results.

vineyridge
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:18 PM
Both Butts Leon and Ingrid Klimke are branded Hanoverian, sponsored by the Hanoverian Verband, and are 31/32s TB. I think more TB than even Headley Britannia.

Um, both of the US OTTBs blew up XC, didn't they?

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:47 PM
Didn't see the US OTTBs.....which horses??? I couldn't stay awake to watch the entire thing and I came in late.....so unless Becky was riding one, I missed both of them.

I don't follow eventing on a regular basis, so I admit that I am ignorant as to what is going on.

I

spotted mustang
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:01 PM
Both Butts Leon and Ingrid Klimke are branded Hanoverian, sponsored by the Hanoverian Verband, and are 31/32s TB.


Ouch. Poor Ingrid. I wonder where she was branded - on the butt cheeks? That's gotta hurt when she sits in the saddle...

spotted mustang
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:03 PM
Okay, I must confess...I loved the two German horses...Butts Leone and Hilrich (I'm sure I mispelled that)...are those two horses, hanoverians? Hilrich had the most incrediable gallop last night and Butts Leone was just beautiful to watch in the dressage.


I think the horse's name is Marius; Hinrich Romeike is the rider. I loved his xc - so smooth.

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:23 PM
I think the horse's name is Marius; Hinrich Romeike is the rider. I loved his xc - so smooth.

LOL!! !I think youre right. That horse was just amazing.

tx3dayeventer
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:24 PM
Didn't see the US OTTBs.....which horses??? I couldn't stay awake to watch the entire thing and I came in late.....so unless Becky was riding one, I missed both of them.

I don't follow eventing on a regular basis, so I admit that I am ignorant as to what is going on.

I

Comet is an OTTB as is Poggio

Anne FS
Aug. 11, 2008, 05:02 PM
Both Butts Leon and Ingrid Klimke are branded Hanoverian, sponsored by the Hanoverian Verband, and are 31/32s TB. I think more TB than even Headley Britannia.

Um, both of the US OTTBs blew up XC, didn't they?

Well, remember, that was part of the brouhaha about changing the format: No roads & tracks, no steeplechase, both of which things (including them, I mean) worked to the TB's advantage. The new format is def designed for warmbloods as opposed to TBs. There was a lot written about just that motive behind the format change when it happened, that that's why the Europeans went for it - it is MUCH more suited to their type of warmblood horse than to a TB.

Do you think the fact that xc in Hong Kong was shortened by 1/3 had anything to do with it this time?

Drvmb1ggl3
Aug. 11, 2008, 05:15 PM
Well, remember, that was part of the brouhaha about changing the format: No roads & tracks, no steeplechase, both of which things (including them, I mean) worked to the TB's advantage. The new format is def designed for warmbloods as opposed to TBs. There was a lot written about just that motive behind the format change when it happened, that that's why the Europeans went for it - it is MUCH more suited to their type of warmblood horse than to a TB.

Do you think the fact that xc in Hong Kong was shortened by 1/3 had anything to do with it this time?

The irony of course is that the Germans are leading with horses that are 95% TB (albeit from 5 generations of select sporthorse breeding), which is hardly "their type of warmblood horse".

Btw, the composition of the US team is no different that pre short format Olympics, i.e several OTTBs and several ISHs or BSHs.
The Brits are still riding ISHs. The Aussies and Kiwis have some of their own homebreds and a few they picked up in GB and Ire.
The only difference I see is that none of the ISHs are sired by a TB stallion, unlike in the past. But that has probably more to do with the rise of ISH stallions in Irish breeding as a stallions in their own right, which reflects a more developed approach to SH breeding in the country.

soloudinhere
Aug. 11, 2008, 05:24 PM
I think the horse's name is Marius; Hinrich Romeike is the rider. I loved his xc - so smooth.

Even better, the rider is an amateur with a "day job" who rides the horse when he gets home from work every day. I believe he is a dentist.

Janeway
Aug. 11, 2008, 05:58 PM
Even better, the rider is an amateur with a "day job" who rides the horse when he gets home from work every day. I believe he is a dentist.

which is one of the main reasons I am hoping he showjumps clean to keep a medal! His horse Marius is wonderful, and he sounds like the nicest fellow. Plus, wasn't he the one from the Athen's German Gold Medal team who refused to give back his medal because it meant so much to him?

Its weird, because I don't really want the German team to win on principle, because as others have said, the sport has conveniently been changed to benefit them... but on the other hand I want both Hinrich and Ingrid to do well. Ingrid has been the bridesmaid far too often!

Anne FS
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:01 PM
The irony of course is that the Germans are leading with horses that are 95% TB (albeit from 5 generations of select sporthorse breeding), which is hardly "their type of warmblood horse".


Well, most of the good warmbloods do have a lot of TB blood, but you have to admit when you saw the German horses in eventing dressage, no matter what their blood, some of them were super-warmblood looking compared to a TB, right?

Carol Ames
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:14 PM
ironically,, sh at the next WEG the Irish will have an American bredTB, and the the US will have ISHs!:winkgrin:

Anne FS
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:18 PM
Cool! I'll root extra for the Irish. I LOVE TBs.

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:22 PM
Even better, the rider is an amateur with a "day job" who rides the horse when he gets home from work every day. I believe he is a dentist.


No kidding????????? I was amazed at how quietly he rode that horse through country.

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:24 PM
Well, most of the good warmbloods do have a lot of TB blood, but you have to admit when you saw the German horses in eventing dressage, no matter what their blood, some of them were super-warmblood looking compared to a TB, right?j

I AM a proud owner of an English TB ex event horse. He's 24 now. He was one of Buck Davidson's mounts back in the mid 90s...I didn't know any of this when I bought him. Now he's my sweet dressage star. He's one heck of a horse.

I also have a Hanoverian/TB cross

So as you can see I am PRO TBs. :yes:

dalpal
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:37 PM
AHHHH, just saw the "I'm in love with a Dentist" thread....guess I wasn't the only one amazed by those two.

YankeeLawyer
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:42 PM
Both Butts Leon and Ingrid Klimke are branded Hanoverian, sponsored by the Hanoverian Verband, and are 31/32s TB.

I am assuming you are referring to the horses, not the riders, but do you have a link to their pedigrees? I thought the Verband requires that horses be at least 50% Hanoverian to be registered Hanoverian (and both sire and dam must be approved for breeding with the registry).

canyonoak
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:58 PM
FRH Butts Abraxxas v. Heraldik xx/Kronenkranich xx

that is to say-- Abraxxas is by Heralkdik xx, a Thoroughbred approved by the Hanoverian Verband, out of a mare whose dam sire is Kronenkranich xx, yet another TB apporoved by the German Hanoverian Verband.

http://www.hannoveraner.com/102.html

Leon is a similar cross.

Germans like TBs just fine--most especially when they have BRED them

LOL

or approved them, like the two above and Lauries Crusador xx.

LOL

J. Turner
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:13 PM
For some time she did infact ride for australia...changed with the FEI...and could have competed at the WEG BEFORE receiving her AU passport. Christian Plage rode in the WEG for switzerland before having a swiss passport. Both of these riders were unable to compete in an olympics until they held a passport of the country they are representing. (both had pending applications for citizenship at the time)
Now the FEI has cracked down and will not allow any changes once you register (as of june this year). So if you hold dual nationality be careful who you register as riding for because according to them, you can only change if you actually give up citizenship to the country you are registered with the FEI and therefor must register with the remaining citizenship.
Lucinda was very open about the reason for her change...she is also a grand prix dressage rider and she felt that she would have more of a chance of making a national team riding for AU then the very competitve British team places.

It doesn't sound different than the (now) American ice dancer Tanith Belbin. She was Canadian and her previous to getting her American passport they were able to skate for America in everything but the Olympics.

vineyridge
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:22 PM
Ouch. Poor Ingrid. I wonder where she was branded - on the butt cheeks? That's gotta hurt when she sits in the saddle...

She could have gotten branded on her Abraxxas. Her Butts Abraxxas. :winkgrin:

sm
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:24 PM
The only difference I see is that none of the ISHs are sired by a TB stallion, unlike in the past. But that has probably more to do with the rise of ISH stallions in Irish breeding as a stallions in their own right, which reflects a more developed approach to SH breeding in the country.

Or maybe there's a shortage of approved TB stallions, so ISH breeders used what stallions they had to work with. Reflecting a "more developed approach to SH breeding" to most means coming in first or second in the world after the xc phase. On that note: enter Germany's two TB sires.

Germany has been collecting TB stallions for centuries, maybe they just have the right blood available for today's short format job and ultra emphasis on dressage.

Drvmb1ggl3
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:38 PM
I am assuming you are referring to the horses, not the riders, but do you have a link to their pedigrees? I thought the Verband requires that horses be at least 50% Hanoverian to be registered Hanoverian (and both sire and dam must be approved for breeding with the registry).

Butts Leon (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/butts+leon)
This was explained in detail a time or two on the SHB forum by Kareen and Aurum I believe. They are indeed registered Hann and are indeed 95% TB. As long as the dam is a registered Hann in the marebook,then you have your 50%.
Mr Butts bred specifically for eventing, and it's a great testimony to his breeding program that he has two horses in the top 10 at the Olympics.

Drvmb1ggl3
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:44 PM
Or maybe there's a shortage of approved TB stallions, so ISH breeders used what stallions they had to work with.



SM, have you ever been to Ireland? There is absolutely no shortage of TBs in the country. It's practically overrun with TBs, very well bred ones too. There must be a son of Sadler's Wells in every parish in the country.
It was not for lack of TBs to go to.


Reflecting a "more developed approach to SH breeding" to most means coming in first or second in the world after the xc phase. On that note: enter Germany's two TB sires.

Yeah, having 7 of the top 15 horses in an Olympic discipline, along with the last 2 gold medal winners, plus the majority of the CCI**** winners worldwide over the last 10 years reflects a failure in ISH eventing breeding alright.
Jeez, you must be the biggest spin doctor these forums have ever seen.