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freestyle2music
Aug. 11, 2008, 12:30 PM
Allthough I stayed up the whole night to watch the XC at HongKong, I needed several towels to keep my head dry. When it was all done and all the riders and horses survived I opened a bottle of champagne to celebrate the riders and horses who did their magnificient job.

I even called my sister (a noted dressage rider) to share my positive feelings but then she send me this

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/265296.html

Theo

NoDQhere
Aug. 11, 2008, 12:45 PM
But people get killed trail riding too. We just had a gentleman killed on a "wagon train" here in South Dakota when his horse bucked him off. Another gentleman is in critical condition after his team bolted and his wagon tipped over. Doing things with horses is dangerous, no doubt, but it seems like Eventing is always under a microscope.

ridgeback
Aug. 11, 2008, 12:57 PM
I live in the Lexington area and I remember seeing my first Rolex cross country I got tears in my eyes and goose bumps...but when horses die year after year it begins to sour you to the sport. Hopefully things will get safer for the horses.

Jealoushe
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:02 PM
But people get killed trail riding too. We just had a gentleman killed on a "wagon train" here in South Dakota when his horse bucked him off. Another gentleman is in critical condition after his team bolted and his wagon tipped over. Doing things with horses is dangerous, no doubt, but it seems like Eventing is always under a microscope.

While I agree everyone knows the dangers of getting on a horse, if you read some things over in the eventers forum you might see there is definitly a higher risk these days in the sport. The eventing community is doing what it can to try and figure out how to change things back to when they were having much less fatalities. I myself am an eventer but I'm not going to deny how dangerous the sport is now.

sisu27
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:38 PM
While I agree everyone knows the dangers of getting on a horse, if you read some things over in the eventers forum you might see there is definitly a higher risk these days in the sport. The eventing community is doing what it can to try and figure out how to change things back to when they were having much less fatalities. I myself am an eventer but I'm not going to deny how dangerous the sport is now.

How is the risk any different now than in days gone by? The basic elements are the same. My feeling is that we, as eventers have created the added risk be being unprepared and competing at levels we have no right to be competing at. The unfortunate results are dead horses and riders.

Sure, I'd kill to ride like Mark Todd or Mary King. But I don't. Therefore I stay where I belong in the lower levels, thus lowering the risk of hurting my horse and myself. A little self awareness would go a long way in our sport.

It may not be the sport for you freestyle but you must appreciate how these horses are the ultimate equine athletes. I'm glad that horseman from other disciplines are watching and hopefully gaining an understanding as to why some of us accept the risk to experience even a small part of what you watched.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:46 PM
How is the risk any different now than in days gone by? The basic elements are the same. My feeling is that we, as eventers have created the added risk be being unprepared and competing at levels we have no right to be competing at. The unfortunate results are dead horses and riders.

Sure, I'd kill to ride like Mark Todd or Mary King. But I don't. Therefore I stay where I belong in the lower levels, thus lowering the risk of hurting my horse and myself. A little self awareness would go a long way in our sport.

It may not be the sport for you freestyle but you must appreciate how these horses are the ultimate equine athletes. I'm glad that horseman from other disciplines are watching and hopefully gaining an understanding as to why some of us accept the risk to experience even a small part of what you watched.

I do completely agree with you. I just want to point out the differences. If you compete above your level in dressage, the greatest risk is a bad test.

If you compete above your level in hunter/Equitation, the greatest risk is not getting a ribbon and knocking some rails.

If you compete above your level in jumpers, you knock down jumps or have refusals.

A bad competitive trail ride usually results in a tired horse, no more.

In cross country jumping the 'knocking down jumps' part is not an option. This is why the change in the Equestrian culture overall - more people buying 'made' horses to win the easy ribbons or bringing horses up the levels to quickly and forgoing horsemanship, people coming into the sport because they suddenly have money and not understanding or being properly educated is high lighted in eventing because of the 'jumps don't give' element of cross country.

Eventing is not a sport you can just jump into without proper education and training and expect to not only do well, but survive. On the eventing board I see a lot of lamenting the old days but no one wanting to address the changes in society.

Jealoushe
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:49 PM
How is the risk any different now than in days gone by? The basic elements are the same. My feeling is that we, as eventers have created the added risk be being unprepared and competing at levels we have no right to be competing at. The unfortunate results are dead horses and riders.

Sure, I'd kill to ride like Mark Todd or Mary King. But I don't. Therefore I stay where I belong in the lower levels, thus lowering the risk of hurting my horse and myself. A little self awareness would go a long way in our sport.

It may not be the sport for you freestyle but you must appreciate how these horses are the ultimate equine athletes. I'm glad that horseman from other disciplines are watching and hopefully gaining an understanding as to why some of us accept the risk to experience even a small part of what you watched.


I completely agree, but I do also think the course changes, removal of the long format and the use of non-tb horses has influenced the sport in a negative way. That is all just a theory though.

dogchushu
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:02 PM
I do completely agree with you. I just want to point out the differences. If you compete above your level in dressage, the greatest risk is a bad test.

If you compete above your level in hunter/Equitation, the greatest risk is not getting a ribbon and knocking some rails.

If you compete above your level in jumpers, you knock down jumps or have refusals.

A bad competitive trail ride usually results in a tired horse, no more.

In cross country jumping the 'knocking down jumps' part is not an option. This is why the change in the Equestrian culture overall - more people buying 'made' horses to win the easy ribbons or bringing horses up the levels to quickly and forgoing horsemanship, people coming into the sport because they suddenly have money and not understanding or being properly educated is high lighted in eventing because of the 'jumps don't give' element of cross country.

Eventing is not a sport you can just jump into without proper education and training and expect to not only do well, but survive. On the eventing board I see a lot of lamenting the old days but no one wanting to address the changes in society.

To be fair, I think we've all seen examples (in dressage, hunters, jumpers, whatever) of people who overhorse themselves and get hurt. Taking solid jumps at speed may be a greater risk, but it's not fair to single out eventing as the only equine activity with significant risk. We all need to know our limitations and ride accordingly.

Pat Ness
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:04 PM
I live in the Lexington area and I remember seeing my first Rolex cross country I got tears in my eyes and goose bumps...but when horses die year after year it begins to sour you to the sport. Hopefully things will get safer for the horses.

ridgeback - this is EXACTLY what happened to me. My first Rolex was 1982 and my last was 2002. When I now venture to watch, a few rides can give me the tears of joy and goose bumps, but not many anymore.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:05 PM
To be fair, I think we've all seen examples (in dressage, hunters, jumpers, whatever) of people who overhorse themselves and get hurt. Taking solid jumps at speed may be a greater risk, but it's not fair to single out eventing as the only equine activity with significant risk. We all need to know our limitations and ride accordingly.

Valid point - though the percentage of deaths (horse and/or rider) is much higher in eventing. That was just my point. Other than making a fool of yourself riding above your limit, death is a definite risk.

Everyone should know their limitations, but should know and do know are different things.

NoDQhere
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:12 PM
How is the risk any different now than in days gone by? The basic elements are the same. My feeling is that we, as eventers have created the added risk be being unprepared and competing at levels we have no right to be competing at. The unfortunate results are dead horses and riders.

Sure, I'd kill to ride like Mark Todd or Mary King. But I don't. Therefore I stay where I belong in the lower levels, thus lowering the risk of hurting my horse and myself. A little self awareness would go a long way in our sport.

It may not be the sport for you freestyle but you must appreciate how these horses are the ultimate equine athletes. I'm glad that horseman from other disciplines are watching and hopefully gaining an understanding as to why some of us accept the risk to experience even a small part of what you watched.

Well said. I am a retired eventer myself, competed through Intermediate and I too think 'UNPREPARED" is a huge issue. Hopefully the sport will address these issues because it really is the ultimate sport, IMO. Watching Ingrid Klimke go around x-country was a PERFECT example of a well prepared horse and an excellent rider. Gave me goosebumps!

WNT
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:06 PM
In cross country jumping the 'knocking down jumps' part is not an option. This is why the change in the Equestrian culture overall - more people buying 'made' horses to win the easy ribbons or bringing horses up the levels to quickly and forgoing horsemanship, people coming into the sport because they suddenly have money and not understanding or being properly educated is high lighted in eventing because of the 'jumps don't give' element of cross country.

Eventing is not a sport you can just jump into without proper education and training and expect to not only do well, but survive. On the eventing board I see a lot of lamenting the old days but no one wanting to address the changes in society.

I don't usually throw in my opinion on these threads, but I think there is a very important point made here. Sorry, I erased the bit about people buying made horses, etc. which is very important to the point.

Another thread on COTH was along the lines of what irks you about riding. One of my biggest peeves is people who buy an experienced horse (nothing wrong with that), but that also expect that to be enough for them to succeed. And in eventing, success isn't the whole story, because jumps don't fall down, the terrain isn't flat, etc and there is a lot more than a fancy or smart horse to get a rider through the finish flags.

Here is where I will lament the "olden days", and I do think that the USEA should do everything in its power to keep eventing safe. But I also think that eventing should NOT change itself for people who are not willing to accept the responsibility, for whatever reason. I think that to a great extent, we need to do something about the "changes in society" that have led to the current mindset that seems to be permeating the sport.

I think that "society" needs to raise its standards of responsibility and accountability before we make eventing idiot-proof, oops, I mean make it safer.

Dressage62
Aug. 11, 2008, 04:13 PM
I thought Jan Byyny wrote very eloquently about safety in eventing on her website:
www.SureFireEventing.com "Recent News"
She had one of her top horses break a leg at an event.

sisu27
Aug. 11, 2008, 05:09 PM
Wow, some great posts guys.

I didn't intend to turn this into another one of those threads but...

I am tired of us measuring our success on the day based on a body count. We all are. What are we to do though? I have nothing but praise for the changes already underway but I think it is a band-aid solution. Decrease risk as quickly as we can at the highest levels which get the most press and carry the highest risks. Good start. My opinion is that it is the lower levels that most desperately need the attention. I'm not saying we are breeding a whole generation of LAs (she's an anomoly I hope) here but from what I can tell there are a lot of people that DO NOT belong eventing at any level, yet. I used to board at a barn where there was a little girl (8 or 9yo) that has started her riding career eventing. Non-horsey parents, no Pony Club...I found it very difficult to be around them, they scare me. Not fair to saint of a horse or kid. When the stars align kid might get a ribbon but mostly finishes at the bottom if she isn't eliminated. Coach is a lovely rider but very young. Kid does not even know how to pick out horses feet properly. Horse might get ridden a couple times a week then they show up on a Friday night, kid gallops around with no supervision nevermind coaching while mother cleans kids tack and away they go the next morning. I've never seen the horse come home and get cold hosed or grazed or wrapped. Horse is treated like a machine. I have nothing but praise for the coach AS A RIDER but can't help but question her coaching abilities. Given that I do not ride at the same level as coach my opinion which I was very careful/tactful to ever offer up, means nothing. This particular example is a ticking time bomb in my opinion and from what I observe it isn't the only example. I get that the young coach needs to make a living and has limited time and is pushing her own career forward but if she can't educate them who will? They are all really nice people and have good intentions but just don't seem to get it. Eventers need to be the ultimate horseman and they seem to be few and far between lately.

So what can we do to fix it? I wish I could help but I honestly have no idea how. I think coaches need certification. I think riders need certification. I think we should all have human passports that prove we have the education and experience to event. Our sport IS DIFFERENT from H/J, dressage...so maybe we need to treat it as such.

Dunno, it is terribly frustrating though.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 06:12 PM
sisu27 - I agree whole heartedly.

This seems to be the obstacle to overcome. It is not the girl's fault she is not educated - how does she know what she needs to be educated on? The parents - they aren't horsey, how do they know what their child needs to be educated on?

The coach should have ensured the child received the education she needed, whether or not the child's parents elected to put her in Pony Club or something.

I say elected because Pony Club is expensive. The coach should have discussed it with the parents in terms of the educational benefit, but if the parents decided it was to much, the coach needs to make sure there are no holes in the child's education.

The barn where I rode in high school - there was no Pony Club or 4H. Older students volunteered to help kids get ready, which included showing how to pick out feet and properly tack up horses. If the older students did not own horses, they could usually work on getting riding time. If they did own horses, they usually did this anyway because they were there and it is what their friends were doing.

I only mention this to show that it does not require some club to have proper horsemanship - but you have to be aware of your students' limitations. That may be land, money, trailering, etc. Just be aware of it and find ways to get the child the proper education anyway. This seems to be the biggest obstacle in eventing - a lot of people are having trouble coming to grips with the fact that this needs to be done.

sisu27
Aug. 11, 2008, 07:42 PM
sisu27 - I agree whole heartedly.

This seems to be the obstacle to overcome. It is not the girl's fault she is not educated - how does she know what she needs to be educated on? The parents - they aren't horsey, how do they know what their child needs to be educated on?

The coach should have ensured the child received the education she needed, whether or not the child's parents elected to put her in Pony Club or something.

I say elected because Pony Club is expensive. The coach should have discussed it with the parents in terms of the educational benefit, but if the parents decided it was to much, the coach needs to make sure there are no holes in the child's education.

The barn where I rode in high school - there was no Pony Club or 4H. Older students volunteered to help kids get ready, which included showing how to pick out feet and properly tack up horses. If the older students did not own horses, they could usually work on getting riding time. If they did own horses, they usually did this anyway because they were there and it is what their friends were doing.

I only mention this to show that it does not require some club to have proper horsemanship - but you have to be aware of your students' limitations. That may be land, money, trailering, etc. Just be aware of it and find ways to get the child the proper education anyway. This seems to be the biggest obstacle in eventing - a lot of people are having trouble coming to grips with the fact that this needs to be done.

Yes, I agree with all you have said. The problem is they have no concept whatsoever as to how many essential pieces of the puzzle they are short. If you aren't aware that you are missing something why would you seek it out? The coach sees the kid for one hour lesson a week and then meets them at the show in the morning. She doesn't seem to notice how much they don't know. This is why I believe there needs to be some sort of system that quantifys (sp?) your requirements. For those of us that have put in the time and had the thirst to learn anything and everything about our sport it will be a no-brainer to prove why we belong in the sport. BUT...for those that haven't they will need to gain some education if they want to participate. It equates to treating us all like children but I think we have not proven that we possess the good judgement to make these decisions on our own. If it saves one horses life I think it is worthwhile.

You know what is also sad about the whole thing? This kid has no idea about the satisfaction one gets from TRAINING to go eventing. The process in itself is so rewarding. Just the other day I took my greenie to a Hunter Pace/Hunter Trials at the Hunt Club for some mileage and for the first time I felt him locking on and taking me to fences with ears pricked forward and not an ounce of hesitation. We didn't win a thing all day but I can't remember the last time I was happier. These little victories escape this generation of eventers that don't train, don't condition, don't become obsessive about feeding and supplements... I guess if they stay at the lower levels it won't matter but I see some with good financial backing that will just buy all that anyways when the time comes. But you can't really buy that can you? It just makes me sad and I wish I was in a position to really do something about it.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 08:01 PM
It is a difficult thing to overcome. I taught lessons for a short time and one student was a bit fearful of horses, but wanted to learn. Her mom seemed to only want her to get into riding to be a perfect little princess so to speak - a proper aristocrat, which included riding, in her book.

So the girl was pushed and not really allowed to deal with her fears and really be friends with the pony. It was a tough spot for me as well because when her mom was watching lessons, I could feel eyes on me to make miracles happen and make this girl a perfect rider in a few lessons. The lessons did not last long, luckily.

Then some people are just not animal people and do see them as objects more. You will always have that, though.

I do agree that there need to be requirements for levels that prove horsemanship. I think having a long format three day under your belt to compete prelim and above is a great start. Maybe some sort of horse care test as well?

sisu27
Aug. 11, 2008, 08:14 PM
See I initially thought that maybe have your C in PC or something but as you pointed out not everyone can afford to do the whole PC thing so that wouldn't work. Although I still firmly believe in the value of PC so perhaps if more people like you and I got involved the costs could be reduced?? I barely have enough time to look after my own horse but I would gladly give up a night a week or a day a weekend to help out if it would make a difference.

Or perhaps your local association doesn't issue memberships without completion of some sort of competency test or something. Eventing runs on volunteers so I bet many would participate in off season seminars and such. Hmmm...I sort of like that idea, perhaps that one should be revisited.

I guess the issue is that I would feel better if I could do something, anything that would be contributing to making eventing better rather than just pointing out how flawed it has become.

Carol Ames
Aug. 11, 2008, 10:02 PM
There are today there are fewer people with "horse sense",that includes vets and farriers;;even fewer now find it important to obtain horse sense:no: the new format encourages riders, often still novices which buy expensive horses who can meet the dressage standard ,now definitely higher, and jump the jumps, and ability to condition a horse, listen to that horse on roads and tracks,especially after the steeplechase:eek: is no longer required :no:again, lessening the influence of horsemanship:no:,and finally, I am not convinced:no: that, we have more deaths now than in the past, look a tthe history of world class events:eek: in the back of Reiner Klimkes'""DAS MILITAER"The internet is now definitely a part of the problem;We knew of that riders' death at Hartpury wiin24 hours:eek: , earlier it would have taken weeks:yes:.inally Posted by sisu27 http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3432838#post3432838) How is the risk any different now than in d

equest
Aug. 11, 2008, 10:21 PM
I do completely agree with you. I just want to point out the differences. If you compete above your level in dressage, the greatest risk is a bad test.

If you compete above your level in hunter/Equitation, the greatest risk is not getting a ribbon and knocking some rails.

If you compete above your level in jumpers, you knock down jumps or have refusals.

A bad competitive trail ride usually results in a tired horse, no more.

In cross country jumping the 'knocking down jumps' part is not an option. This is why the change in the Equestrian culture overall - more people buying 'made' horses to win the easy ribbons or bringing horses up the levels to quickly and forgoing horsemanship, people coming into the sport because they suddenly have money and not understanding or being properly educated is high lighted in eventing because of the 'jumps don't give' element of cross country.

Eventing is not a sport you can just jump into without proper education and training and expect to not only do well, but survive. On the eventing board I see a lot of lamenting the old days but no one wanting to address the changes in society.

Very well put! And I certainly don't think that this opinion diminishes the eventers on this board or the sport one bit. I believe a number of those on the eventing board would agree, as well.

bosox
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:26 PM
because Pony Club is expensive

:lol::lol:

PC is very inexpensive for a horse club/showing. Nationals or Championships can be expensive but PC yearly activities are pretty low fees.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:31 PM
Can you name what the fees were in your pony club that made it inexpensive?

whitewolfe001
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:35 PM
Does anyone think the Olympic XC course this time around was toned down a bit?

After a couple of years of cringing at the astounding size and complexity of the top XC courses at Rolex, etc..... and after all the controversy of overfacing the horses, the accidents.... this course looks fair and not too crazy. And there have been very few mishaps.

But I am a dressage rider and not an eventer (anymore), so I'm interested to see what others think of it.

bosox
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:37 PM
Yearly fees to include rating preps/book/pin and some lessons 110 dollars for the year.

Rallies range from 40 to 130 dollars. The club will pay for 1/3 of the rally. The 130 rally is for a USEA REC event.

We are outside the DC metro---so our fees won't be the lowest and probably some of the highest due to our cost of living.

D camp runs 55 dollars for 3 days of instruction by Professional Dressage, Eventing instructors. Includes crafts and food.

Pretty cheap.....

seeuatx
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:45 PM
Can you name what the fees were in your pony club that made it inexpensive?

In my PC the yearly membership was $50 approx. Rallies (horseshows) ran about 100-150 for the whole shebang including stabling... but Rallies are not a requirement. (This is pricing as of 6 years ago when I went to college and let my membership lapse)

Membership included Weekly(ish) unmounted meetings in the winter, and bi-weekly mounted meetings (lessons) with local instructors. We would fund raise for a yearly clinic with someone bigger, so it could be free or at nominal ($20 or so) cost. And the ratings were included.

Camp was expensive, about $300 for 5 days... but I only went twice. Festival and championships are very expensive, but lots of clubs fund raise. Festival was a once in a lifetime experience for me, because I got to ride with some top people.

So if you have a kid that absolutely has to go to every rally, and camp, and have all the fashionable new stuff that so an so has.... PC will run you upwards of 1k/ year (hey, it's less than most A show weekends).

If you/ your kid were like me... not poor, but I did not get to do everything. I got to pick 2 rallies (easy... dressage and eventing), and camp if I babysat to help raise $$$... it was maybe $500/year. $250ish the years I did not do camp.

But there were kids that did not show, but just did it for the horsemanship and lessons... $50/ year.

Sure some kids in my club had 50k horses, and all the cool stuff and got to do all the rallies. But I think I did pretty respectfully on my little 2k horse. Anyhow, with PC... you get out what you put in as far as effort not money.

Ajierene
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:47 PM
Yearly fees to include rating preps/book/pin and some lessons 110 dollars for the year.

Rallies range from 40 to 130 dollars. The club will pay for 1/3 of the rally. The 130 rally is for a USEA REC event.

We are outside the DC metro---so our fees won't be the lowest and probably some of the highest due to our cost of living.

D camp runs 55 dollars for 3 days of instruction by Professional Dressage, Eventing instructors. Includes crafts and food.

Pretty cheap.....

How many rallies in a year? And the camp is once a year, right?

I have never been in pony club so can only go by what my trainer talked about, which included monthly clinics (about $100 a piece) a week long camp (whichi will be definitely more than $55 - a couple of hundred from what I remember correctly), on top of expected regular lessons (my trainer charges $40 a lesson, that's about average around here). I recall something about rallies, but not sure how many - they may have been mixed in with clinics.

Then you have shows, if you want to go to them - which most kids do. Pony club price for an unrecognized show right now is $70 or so.

It just isn't as doable.

Then you have the people that come to eventing as adults or older teens - are they out of luck with moving up because they didn't have Pony Club? And what about the areas that don't have Pony Club?

Pony Club is great, there are just a lot of variables there to make anything Pony Club specific a requirement for moving up levels.


EDIT: Just read your post, seeuatx - dues (which I don't remember discussing with my trainer) may have covered lessons. Hence the 'expected lessons'.

seeuatx
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:56 PM
Rallies: Showjumping (if qualified by rating... c-1 minimum I think), Dressage, Eventing (D3 and above... D rally for D1 and D2), Tetrathalon, Quiz (called knowdown in my day... unmounted). 5 rallies total.

Most riders did not do all of them. In my club most did Dressage and Eventing and Quiz (to help us with written exams at other rallies). Only one member I know did all, but her parents owned a barn and she had 3 horses. Some members did none.

My club did not host regular horse shows. I went to the fairground and showed in dinky little 4-h stuff between the bigger stuff for fun... hey it was $5 a class.

springer
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:59 PM
Sorry to be politically incorrect as usual, but your eventer horses all look underfed and the dressage tests look like crap. Your horses are incredibly brave and fit but I feel sorry for them. Pushing them to the brink at any risk and trying to wear too many hats means none of them are worn quite properly. Just my opinion of course

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:01 AM
Rallies: Showjumping (if qualified by rating... c-1 minimum I think), Dressage, Eventing (D3 and above... D rally for D1 and D2), Tetrathalon, Quiz (called knowdown in my day... unmounted). 5 rallies total.

Most riders did not do all of them. In my club most did Dressage and Eventing and Quiz (to help us with written exams at other rallies). Only one member I know did all, but her parents owned a barn and she had 3 horses. Some members did none.

My club did not host regular horse shows. I went to the fairground and showed in dinky little 4-h stuff between the bigger stuff for fun... hey it was $5 a class.

I do that all the time at shows - was going to a few weeks ago if I didn't screw up my back so badly.

Anyway - what might be a good thing is to take the requirements for C level Pony Club and adjust them to meet the needs of the event world. Make a rally, of sorts, mandatory to go from say Training to Prelim and passing the tests a requirement for being able to do Prelim. maybe another one to go from intermediate to advanced.

I have no idea what it takes to be a C Pony Club person...so just tossing stuff out there.

seeuatx
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:10 AM
I have no idea what it takes to be a C Pony Club person...so just tossing stuff out there.

http://www.ponyclub.org/files/bin/2313

All standards could be found under "forms" at ponyclub.org, for reference if you are interested in what is involved.

sisu27
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:26 AM
Sorry to be politically incorrect as usual, but your eventer horses all look underfed and the dressage tests look like crap. Your horses are incredibly brave and fit but I feel sorry for them. Pushing them to the brink at any risk and trying to wear too many hats means none of them are worn quite properly. Just my opinion of course

Yikes. What prompted that? Go through it out on the eventing forum if you are looking for a train wreck. For the record, your opinion sounds a bit ignorant but I guess you are entitled to it. Oh and don't feel sorry for my horse. He puts up with a couple minutes of dressage torture so he can gallop xc GLEEFULLY. Ever seen a horse smile?

Anyways...I was just using PC as an example. I have no idea what it costs but I know it was a hell of a lot cheaper than just about anything else I have done. Mum and dad didn't object to the cost...just the politics;). If you can't afford to show and do PC then I say do PC. Point being that PC has well established levels and guidelines and could provide a basis for some sort of qualification blueprint.

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:29 AM
Anyways...I was just using PC as an example. I have no idea what it costs but I know it was a hell of a lot cheaper than just about anything else I have done. Mum and dad didn't object to the cost...just the politics;). If you can't afford to show and do PC then I say do PC. Point being that PC has well established levels and guidelines and could provide a basis for some sort of qualification blueprint.

I can agree with it being used as a blueprint.

Thanks for the link Seeuatx, though right now I can't get anywhere with it - doesn't seem to be working right with my computer. I think that is the signal for me to go to bed (stadium jumping is online tomorrow at 715 after all...).

paw
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:36 AM
Does anyone think the Olympic XC course this time around was toned down a bit?

The XC at the Olympics is never full-on - you never know exactly who is going to show up (at least for the individuals), and you don't want to kill someone... You need to take into account that some folks might not feel comfortable saying "the course is too difficult for my horse" when they're riding here.

I think MES did a spot-on job of designing a course that would sort the riders and horses according to ability without seriously endangering anyone. When you take into account the size of the venue (not terribly large) and the temperature+humidity that the later competitors would have to endure, it wasn't an easy task. It'll be interesting to see how many don't present for the final phase...

Jealoushe
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:25 AM
Sorry to be politically incorrect as usual, but your eventer horses all look underfed and the dressage tests look like crap. Your horses are incredibly brave and fit but I feel sorry for them. Pushing them to the brink at any risk and trying to wear too many hats means none of them are worn quite properly. Just my opinion of course

And you are a twit

Just my opinion of course:lol:

Jealoushe
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:25 AM
Also

Pony Club = more important and worth more for the $$ than showing!

Knowledge, experience, great clinicians and lifetime friends!

quietann
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:40 AM
As an adult re-rider, one of my proudest moments was when one of my early instructors -- a very well-respected dressage judge -- asked me if I'd been in Pony Club as a kid. She liked my horsemanship skills, though I was and am far from a "pretty" or super talented rider.

I had to tell her no, though. I never had my own horse, parents could not afford it and were not willing to drive me to "horsey stuff" more than twice a week. We lived in a big city -- without a ride there was no way to get to horses. Luckily my instruction was from someone who knew a thing or two about horses and had the students do a lot of the horse care, simply because she could not afford to hire grooms. Not everything about her was wonderful, but in that way she was very good.

Now as an adult, with eventing aspirations and a lovely little horse, I do wish there was something like PC for grown-ups. I get great knowledge from friends who have done PC but would really love to learn it all first-hand!

I think I am drawn towards eventing (very low level) simply because it's three very different things that one has to be passably good at. It appeals to my intellect as much as anything else.

Ajierene
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:53 AM
Some great points quietann. I was in a similar situation in that I did not have Pony Club in my area, nor did I have parents that would have put the money and time into it.

In Pony Club, don't you generally own your own horse? That would have been a challenge as well, since my first horse was bought and kept with my own money.

I worked for a rich, older lady one summer and she talked about the origins of Pony Club and how the idea came about because there were so many kids around that did not know or possibly care about proper horsemanship. Pony Club was designed to make sure they understood their responsibilities as a horse owner.

Today there are a lot of adults that are finally living their childhood dreams of horses. My step-mom has owned a horse for the last 15 years, but she did not start riding until her late 30's. She has always boarded her horse and the barn owner takes care of shots, worming and other things. She would be hard pressed to pass any Pony Club tests. She isn't a bad person or a bad horseperson, just not knowledgeable. She has taken classes about horses where she could, but there are not many out there and not everyone can afford to the time or money to take the college courses she took.

Someone like this could really benefit from an adult type Pony Club (Horse Club maybe?)

caffeinated
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:08 AM
Sorry to be politically incorrect as usual, but your eventer horses all look underfed and the dressage tests look like crap. Your horses are incredibly brave and fit but I feel sorry for them. Pushing them to the brink at any risk and trying to wear too many hats means none of them are worn quite properly. Just my opinion of course

And while we're opinionating, what about those clinically obese show hunters? And saddlebreds going hollow? and the weird feet on show drafts? and in human sports, those horrible triathletes who aren't quite great at any one event and look way too skinny compared to, say, me?

(I know, I shouldn't contribute... but really...)

Mozart
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:48 AM
Actually, these Games and this course have gone a long way to restore my faith in Eventing. Which, post Rolex, was at a seriously low ebb.

tarragon
Aug. 12, 2008, 12:12 PM
Now, I'm a dressage rider, but to my not-an-eventer eye, it looked like the course was a pretty darn good test of horse and rider. It looked to ride pretty tough technically with some tough bending lines, options and those skinnies that gave a lot of riders problems but no really scary or dangerous jumps. It seemed like the shortened time was a good idea (although no one finished within the time, right?) given the conditions as it looked like all the horses finished tired, but there were none of the heat/exhaustion issues we've seen in previous Olympics.

I will say that after watching the German riders it was very easy to see why they are leading.

mew
Aug. 12, 2008, 02:32 PM
The real problem is that the focus of young riding is about ridding, not about horsemanship. Parents are not honestly told about the time commitment that is doing the right thing by the horse. They pay for an hr lesson and thats all they plan to be at the barn.

I had the privilege of ridding at a BNT barn, more often than not I was hit in the face with how little this kids knew about ridding other than jumping. More than once I watched kids bring out one of their Grand Prix horses in the one of their other GP horses tack. Think sensitive snaffle horse in a pretty serious bit, they have no idea. These are kids who have placed in the money at big GP's.

The system is broken and it has to be fixed, horse management needs to become part of every lesson program. Some lesson are mounted some are not, kids need to know all the types of bits and be able to tell you what their main lesson horse is ridden in. They need to know how to clean tack, and all the rest of it.


eddited to add

I was never in pony club because I did not have a horse until I was 12 and by then I would have been in with the 7 year olds my 12 year old self wasn't up for that. You need to have a horse or lease to do pony club, then you also need to be able to get to the rallies. If you don't come from a horsie family that is awful hard for them to get onboard to buy the horse, learn to trailer and be willing to and all that fun.