Incident at Millbrook Horse Trials

[shamrocker]

Today we were spectating the Advanced Level XC rides at Millbrook Horse Trials. Myself and many others were sitting behind the taped off area at the water complex. The majority of the rides were really good, smooth and trouble free. However, there was an incident today, that was truly terrifying.

A rider was having trouble controlling her horse, she seemed to be going way to fast according to many bystanders, and fellow competitors. The horse came into the water complex, and missed the first jump element, and was circling back to attempt it. The rider seemed to be having more trouble and was trying to circle yet again but this time up near the spectators. A moment of focus seemed to be lost between the rider and the horse, and the horse jumped the white tape right into the large crowd of spectators. The horse started to go sideways within the spectators who at this point were now scrambling madly to get away from the rider and the horse. The rider dismounted and announced she had retired. A spectator appeared to be hurt. The horse left the area and an EMT arrived, there were fortunately not any injuries, but the woman had gone into a bit of shock, and had recovered fairly quickly. This was a horrifying situation, the horse jumped the tape 10 feet away from me. It was a miracle that no one was hurt by this loss of control.

I know this stuff can happen on a very rare occasion, but I won't forget this episode for a long time, it was really scary!

[Jagged]

Sounds like it might have been something that could have happened at any level, probably not just because it was his or her first time running advanced. I'm sorry, it sounds very scary though. I'm glad everyone was alright, and that the rider was smart enough to retire.

[sofiethewonderhorse]

I'm really happy to hear the rider retired!

[kml84]

I didn't see the incident or know who was involved but I do believe I overheard the rider involved on the phone with someone this afternoon and for what it is worth she seemed to be quite upset and concerned about what happened....also a little confused as to why her horse behaved that way...sounds like it was really just not their day!

[ryansgirl]

Glad to hear the rider had the sense to retire and not push on. :)

[rennyben]

Wow! That is a little scary. One year at Foxhall -- maybe 2 years before the last one, a rider came down the big hill, I think fell off at the mushrooms at the bottom and his horse kept going straight and went through the tape, dragging it with him as he galloped home. Luckily there were no spectators in his way!

I also think I remember seeing video footage online of a horse jumping into a crowd? Maybe from Badminton? I can't find it now though.

[Ajierene]

Way back in the day, when I first started riding I was at a hunter show. The arena was indoors and instead of closing the doors, they put a two foot jump up that was brought down to allow horses in and out, then put up again. Other competitors and coaches generally stood there instead of the stands.

I was riding a nice horse who's only problem was a habit of cutting left when I wanted him to go right. The course was twice around the four jumps that were against the rail. One class was the right lead, another the left lead. Well, we didn't have time to practice the whole course because it was to crowded (schooling show, so we warmed up over the actual course we would be jumping).

Get to my time to jump and my gelding thought that we were done after once around and to my great surprise he cut left and jumped out of the arena! My most vivid memory is my fellow student standing just to the right of where I was jumping - to close to getting her head taken off by my horse's hooves for comfort.

I was very upset and embarrassed! My only excuse was the stables I rode at had only had this horse a few weeks before the show, so not as much time to really assess this cutting left issue. All it took was a moment of loss of control - in that instance I did not think he was going to cut left AND jump, so I did not do enough to prepare for that possibility.

[Crazyabouteventing]

I'm really happy to hear the rider retired!

Im sorry, the a retiring rider would be the least of my thoughts, safety to all at or near the incident is the first priority.

[belambi]

One of the most amazinglt lucky escapes was a Badminto a few years ago.. Australian rider Stuart Tinney lost steering comming out of the water..and jumped into the spectators.There were indeed casualities but amazingly enough just a few broken bones..I still have the photo!

http://i33.tinypic.com/25ztqtt.jpg

[kcrubin]

We were unfortunate witnesses to a horse going through the last water at the Radnor 3 day several years ago and a horse went through the ropes and over spectators including a child. I whisked my toddler away and the child injured was apparently ok in the long run. Unfortunately it has had long term effects on my own child that have really surprised me. She currently will not go to a show with her pony because she thinks someone will be hurt.
She unfortunatly has been at not only this event but at least two others with falls in front of her - the other two were people we knew. Everyone, thankfully, has been ok each time.

Horses are not machines. They don't intend to hurt people 99% of the time. My daughter is 7 now. The incident she witnessed must have been 3 or 4 years ago.

What do you do?

For me, I give it time - yes, people can get hurt, they are animals. Do I question my sport - you bet. Do I push my child - no.

No easy answers.

[AiryFairy]

Horses are not machines. They don't intend to hurt people 99% of the time. My daughter is 7 now. The incident she witnessed must have been 3 or 4 years ago.

What do you do?

For me, I give it time - yes, people can get hurt, they are animals. Do I question my sport - you bet. Do I push my child - no.

No easy answers.

Perhaps when she's old enough to rationalize the risk and her own abilities, she'll gain some confidence, but to be honest if I'd seen something like that when I was young, the impression would have been indelible. Seeing big horses and people fall isn't the textbook introduction to the sport, but it might make her a safer rider in the long run.

[Tux61096]

Quite a few years ago now, the showjumping stallion Ommen, jumped out of the ring at one of the big Fall indoor coliseums and into the crowd. Very scary, but kind of amazing that he would do such a thing. One woman broke her leg as a result of the incident.

[CANTEREOIN]

Was this called dangerous riding by the TD? Wow.... scary and I kind of wish I was there to watch... of course on the other side of the water complex where it was safe.

[twofatponies]

Horses are not machines. They don't intend to hurt people 99% of the time. .

And their riders are not machines either. Am I sensing some readers here (not you kcrubin) are tut-tutting that a rider would "let" her horse get out of control? I can't imagine a rider out there that wouldn't do everything she could think of (in slow motion, in the middle of an unexpected emergency, in a chaotic situation) to try to straighten the horse out and get him back on track...

I must have just missed this incident. I was watching at the water most of the morning. I was more worried about the spectators who constantly make last minute dashes across the course to get a view from a new spot!

[clivers]

Was this called dangerous riding by the TD? Wow.... scary and I kind of wish I was there to watch... of course on the other side of the water complex where it was safe.

Does the dangerous riding designation refer to all riders of out-of-control horses, or only those who are NOT trying desperately to fix it? Sounds like this rider was trying to bring her horse back under control by circling repeatedly etc.!!! Dangerous, yes. Deliberate or oblivious, no. So is it still "dangerous riding"?

[twofatponies]

No, unfortunately she was not trying to bring her horse back under control. She had already been out of control. She was simply trying to continue and not get eliminated, iregardless of the hundreds of people that were there. There is no doubt we get caught up in the heat of the moment at an event, go into tunnel vision, but this was just plain bad horsemanship.

If that's the case then that is irresponsible. I can't imagine being "out of control" and not prioritizing my own safety, my horse's safety, and spectator safety (likely in that order, mind you!!).

[Jagged]

Yes, I was there and here is the REAL problem. YES - the rider was YELLOW CARDED by the Officials - rightly so - it was dangerous riding and she had no business doing what she did. It was reported that she was out of control well before the water complex with all of the spectators. She should have pulled up long before she got there. So she did receive the Yellow Card and PROTESTED it. That is a real problem. How could she possibly contest that. Very disturbing. Yes, runaways, unexpected things to occur, but to not accept the consequences, take it gracefully and learn from it is one of the major problems we are facing in our sport. It makes us ALL look bad. Shame on you the rider of that horse.

I have to wonder, though, if it is appropriate for you to be posting this information on a public internet forum.

[kcrubin]

the one I saw at Radnor the rider was doing everything she could to keep the horse from doing what he did and she was very very upset. She made sure the child was ok - somewhat - got back on and went through the flags to finish, and ran back to sit with the child sobbing.
I saw all that looking back over my shoulder after quickly grabbing my child and rushing away as soon as it happened and my brain clicked into gear.

[Janet]

Does the dangerous riding designation refer to all riders of out-of-control horses, or only those who are NOT trying desperately to fix it? Sounds like this rider was trying to bring her horse back under control by circling repeatedly etc.!!! Dangerous, yes. Deliberate or oblivious, no. So is it still "dangerous riding"?
from the rules
1. Any competitor who rides in such a way as to constitute a hazard to the safety or wellbeing
of the competitor, horse, other competitors, their horses, spectators, or others will
penalized accordingly.

[snoopy]

I have to wonder, though, if it is appropriate for you to be posting this information on a public internet forum.


I feel it is entirely acceptable and prudent to be discussing these types of incidents. This is exactly the situation that needs to be addressed and the fact that she was yellow carded and it made public is just as important. The fact that she protested is another issue that needs addressing. This type of incident will not be the last and there has to be tangible evidence that safety is being taken seriously by our officials and that there is a process in place for the inevitable "unfair" moans of those riders in question.
This is not inside information. She was riding dangerously at a high profile event at the highest level.

[Little Valkyrie]

This might be off course, but it does pertain to Millbrook. So there I was, sitting in the spectator's tent during stadium, happy as a clam to be quietly enjoying the day. Next to me is this broad who is alternately waving and calling to ULRs (Yoo hoo, Markie!, Bucky!), and (to anyone within earshot)
vetting their horses with a chainsaw and totally eviscerating their current sale horses.
I do appreciate everyone's first amendment rights (no, that isn't the "right to bear arms" one), but can we save the ubersnark for a more private venue!
Please don't blame Little Valkyrie for this post, this is Wheel Whip, too lazy to change loggings

[JanWeber]

WW - hard to educate some people (they really don't see the issue with their behavior) - you did smile politely and get up and move out of earshot, didn't you? I was at Millbrook yesterday for X-C day and was pleasantly surprised by how relaxed and friendly everyone was - even in the long line at the ice cream truck! My daughter was stabled directly across from the water jump and we spent much time there - missed the infamous "jump into the crowd" scene, but there really didn't seem to be much talk among the spectators about it from what I heard. Just - "oh, you missed a good one. Well, maybo not so good - a horse jumped out over the tape and into the crowd".

[Little Valkyrie]

If I was totally out of earshot, I'd have to be in another state! But enough complaining... Millbrook was lovely and a big thanks too all, organizers, volunteers and competitors for providing a lowly spectator with great sport.

[Mary in Area 1]

OK folks, I was there. I saw her come in to the water complex at probably 2x the speed she should have been going. She headed directly toward the training table, and we all thought she was looking for an option at the water (there was none.) She then turned toward the first jump in the water complex, then sped past it and ran along side the water for about 10 meters. At that point she turned her horse right and directly at the crowd (I mean, completely perpendicular to the tape, not at an angle.) The horse jumped the tape and landed about 5 feet from where I HAD been standing. I had taken off my boots, and tripped over them trying to lunge out of the way, so I fell and scrambled away. The horse landed on one woman's foot. A child had a dog on a leash, and the child went one way while the dog went the other way. A person screamed "Let go of the dog!" which she luckily did, and neither was hurt.

Later, I was telling another Advanced competitor about the incident, and a person said from behind me, "That was me." We turned around and asked her if she and her horse were OK. She said, "Oh yes, this happened at Bromont, too. I just had more room to keep circling." I asked her why she had turned her horse toward the crowd, and she replied, "I was hoping it would slow her down." Astonished, I told her about the woman being hurt. She hadn't known about that, she hadn't asked.

She told us she had been frantically trying to get the horse under control, but I have to tell you honestly, I was there with a group of 5 very good riders and they all agreed that none of us saw her attempt a pulley rein, or in fact, any strong rein aid at all. She was not speaking to her horse, or warn the crowd, and she had a very dazed and glassy-eyed look. We were so confused, because it really looked as if she was steering the horse exactly where it went. She told me she was going to speak with Leslie Law about trying some new bits. That was her only suggestion for improvement.

This was a terrifying incident, and certainly deserving of a formal reprimand, in my opinion.

[Jazzy Lady]

Was it the rider's first time at this level, or just the horse?

[Mary in Area 1]

Neither. They have both been attempting to ride successfully at the Advanced Level for some time. They had just competed at Maui Jim, and as I wrote, a similar incident occurred at Bromont.

[JERinNJ]

Neither. They have both been attempting to ride successfully at the Advanced Level for some time. They had just completed Maui Jim, and as I wrote, a similar incident occurred at Bromont.

Alright, definitely know who you're talking about now.
This mare is definitely a little bit on the "wired" side, and the rider usually has her work cut out for her micro-managing, as thats the way I've seen her ride.
Sad to see this happened and very dissapointed the rider handled the situation absolutely horribly.

[lakeville]

A round of applause goes to young "Ashley" one of fabulous rider/trainer Rebecca Coffins .. Staff..Whom Yelled out to the child " Let Go Of The Dog~!"Bravo!! and, as well, to one of her female clients for collecting the riders horse!

[RiverBendPol]

OK folks, I was there. I saw her come in to the water complex at probably 2x the speed she should have been going. She headed directly toward the training table, and we all thought she was looking for an option at the water (there was none.) She then turned toward the first jump in the water complex, then sped past it and ran along side the water for about 10 meters. At that point she turned her horse right and directly at the crowd (I mean, completely perpendicular to the tape, not at an angle.) The horse jumped the tape and landed about 5 feet from where I HAD been standing. I had taken off my boots, and tripped over them trying to lunge out of the way, so I fell and scrambled away. The horse landed on one woman's foot. A child had a dog on a leash, and the child went one way while the dog went the other way. A person screamed "Let go of the dog!" which she luckily did, and neither was hurt.

Later, I was telling another Advanced competitor about the incident, and a person said from behind me, "That was me." We turned around and asked her if she and her horse were OK. She said, "Oh yes, this happened at Bromont, too. I just had more room to keep circling." I asked her why she had turned her horse toward the crowd, and she replied, "I was hoping it would slow her down." Astonished, I told her about the woman being hurt. She hadn't known about that, she hadn't asked.

She told us she had been frantically trying to get the horse under control, but I have to tell you honestly, I was there with a group of 5 very good riders and they all agreed that none of us saw her attempt a pulley rein, or in fact, any strong rein aid at all. She was not speaking to her horse, or warn the crowd, and she had a very dazed and glassy-eyed look. We were so confused, because it really looked as if she was steering the horse exactly where it went. She told me she was going to speak with Leslie Law about trying some new bits. That was her only suggestion for improvement.

This was a terrifying incident, and certainly deserving of a formal reprimand, in my opinion.

Mary, I am so glad you're OK. Please, in future, keep your boots ON when out in public. I have told you before, maybe you should get some Crocs.:cool:

I heard the tale of woe told almost word-for-word by another friend of mine who was on scene. The scary part is that the rider (whom I've known for years) had a blank stare face, made no attempt to pull up, change direction, warn spectators, etc., then following the whole ordeal, rode away without so much as a 'thank you, ma'am' to the crowd she had just abused.
She didn't REALLY protest the yellow card, DID SHE???????????

[FlightCheck]

I bet she did protest.
She is a SCARY rider.

[flutie1]

FC, you have a PM.

flutie

[Badger]

Something in the same vein happened at Maui Jim with a training rider. I don't know the whole story, but I understand that she was approaching the water jump at speed, maybe at the jump just before, didn't make a turn, jumped the ropes, and ended up eliminated plus had 25 dangerous riding penalties added.

[TripleC]

I have to wonder, though, if it is appropriate for you to be posting this information on a public internet forum.

Yes, it is - as evidenced by many other posts. A PUBLIC forum is EXACTLY where these incidents need to be. Why would you think it is OK to put so many people in danger and slink away under the radar...

[Mary in Area 1]

[quote=RiverBendPol;3431854]Mary, I am so glad you're OK. Please, in future, keep your boots ON when out in public. I have told you before, maybe you should get some Crocs.:cool:


Pol, I HAVE Crocs, but I don't think it would have made a difference! I'm just not fast enough/agile enough to leap out of the way. In fact, after the horse stopped, and we looked at the area he had landed, THERE were my stupid Muck boots, right where the hoof-prints went! Several people actually thought that I had jumped out of my boots!!!:eek:

I'm going to start a new thread on Dangerous Riding now, so I don't lead this one astray.

I have to say, in spite of this incident, Millbrook was AMAZING considering the 500 horses competing, and the zillions of people and HUGE rigs that had to manuever in the mud. The footing held up remarkably well and the stabling stayed dry. Everything went as smoothly as the weather would possible allow. A big thank you to Louise and her gang, as well as to Tremaine for keeping the track safe. Now if we could only find a decent hotel near there....

[RiverBendPol]

It is confirmed. She was given a yellow card and she did protest it. Gosh. Rider responsibility and all that.

[modernchemistry]

I think people need to check their information before they start posting things on the interent. Obviously with everything that has happened in the last few months saftey has been everyone's concern but freak accidents still happen. I think people need to pay attention when making accusations when dealing with someone's reputation. I personally was there when this happened and the rider made every attempt to stop and circle but obviously there was a serious lack of control at that moment. She obviosuly did not intentionally point her horse to the crowd. Someone else I know saw the other part of the course which went smoothly and was in full control. I think people need to realize that were dealing with animals and you can't always predict whats going to happen. It was unfortunate this happened in that specific spot where there was a lot of spectators. I know for a fact the rider did accept her warning without any kind of protest.

[snoopy]

spoken like the rider in question...well done.

[tx3dayeventer]

spoken like the rider in question...well done.
:lol:

[pixietrix]

I saw the Millbrook incident ( she headed straight for us when her horse BOLTED left instead of staying straight from the jump previous to water complex). Instead of circling her horse, she pulled as hard as she could on her right rein which put the horse on a line that was too far right to be anywhere near the line to the water...as the horse galloped past the "in" ( still bolting, actually), he was very nicely presented with the tape and the crowd.....paused briefly....( I will not forget the looks on everyone's faces as it became clear she was headed for THEM) jumped the tape and [I]somehow[I] avoided stepping directly on the woman under them & the dog they very nearly squished. Someone grabbed the horse's bridle & led them away.... I have never seen anything like this & I turned to the ULR I was standing there with & said "do ya think THAT was dangerous riding"????? to which he said "uh, yeah....." & then I said, "nope, she won't get the DR because she just retired, she better get a yellow card for that". It was a horrifying example of someone trying to play the game at a level they are never, never going to be ready for & the only thing more frightening than the rider hurting herself & her horse is the thought that she's going to take out a few innocent bystanders....can we say RIDER RESPONSIBILITY or REALITY CHECK? The woman needs to be handcuffed to the Novice/Training start box, IMO.....grrrrrrrr :mad:

[BaroquePony]

Originally posted by modernchemistry:

I think people need to realize that were dealing with animals and you can't always predict whats going to happen.

I've been around horses for almost 50 years now and the only thing that I have seen that makes these "animals" unpredictable is the stupid human on their back :yes:

[bip]

This thread has degenerated into the nastiest brand of high school clique-driven bitchiness, thinly veiled by the guise of safety-consciousness.

Seems to be happening more and more lately.

[BaroquePony]

Originally posted by bip:

This thread has degenerated into the nastiest brand of high school clique-driven bitchiness, thinly veiled by the guise of safety-consciousness.

Seems to be happening more and more lately.

Maybe, what you perceive to be "the nastiest brand of high school clique-driven b......., thinly veiled by the guise of safety-consciousness", is actually based on experiences from working with horses and riders in the real world.

You seem to act as if people should always be polite and respectful of others who don't take responsibilty for their and their horse's actions.

I can only speak for myself, but I have seen a lot of very poor horsemanship in some of the various barns that I have worked at and at many of the clinics that I have ridden in.

I get very tired of it.

It is like being in a war zone of bad horsemanship.

Unless there is an overall respect for good horsemanship in general (meaning that it is normal practice at most barns in the U.S.), then it becomes very difficult to teach, train and produce great horses and riders.

[CANTEREOIN]

This thread has degenerated into the nastiest brand of high school clique-driven bitchiness, thinly veiled by the guise of safety-consciousness.

Seems to be happening more and more lately.

I agree with BIP. This should be a discussion about the principals of Dangerous Riding and not about the person riding. Not that the person shouldn't be a part of the discussion but the personal attacks on her integrity makes us more like the other contentious boards... And to assume that a new poster defending the situation is the rider in question... sorry folks... childish and a bit threatening (no matter how humorous you think the response is.)

My, and...

I'm glad that the rider got a Yellow Card. Even if riding is unpredictable and a horse has a mind of its own and on occasion could run away and endangering others, it's still dangerous riding.

I'm not commenting on this pair... but if Karen O'Connor's (insert any big name rider here) horse bolts for whatever reason and she could not get it under control and the horse runs/jumps into a crowd of spectators... its dangerous riding in my book.

And if that rider (insert any rider's name here) protested an additional penalty should be assessed.

The Yellow Card is a warning and if the DR continues at another show... then further action will be taken. That is the way it works.

[BaroquePony]

I do think that the personal attacks can get *catty* shall we say, but one of the things that I have noticed that comes from them, negative as they are, is that when people know who is actually being *attacked* then more and more information seems to come out about said person's LONG history of such and such.

In some ways, that begins to add a credibilty to the pros and cons of responsibilty in a public venue.

Unless these things get out in the open, they cannot be changed in order to help the sport.

No, it isn't always pretty, but it seems to help in understanding what needs to happen in order to fix some of these problems.

[NeverTime]

I didn't see this happen in person but I was in the same division, rode the same set of fences and saw this on video at the competitor's party that night. And, it might be, that watching it on video - where there's not the chance of being squashed and the related adrenaline! - gives a different picture?
It looked to me the way pixietrix described: Not that she was "looking" for an alternate route, but that her horse jumped the fence before the water and then, for whatever reason, took the bit and bolted. Everything about his body language said "bolt" to me, and even once she got him turned back the other way, he still seemed to be bolting. That, I felt fairly sure of from what they showed on the tape -- she had very little control, and possibly through no fault of her own. The horse was taking the bit and running away from something.
What I didn't really get was how/why she got him turned a third time (the turn toward the crowd). The water complex was roped so that it was a bit of a funnel, to allow spectators on both sides. The roping allowed enough room to weave in and out of the water, should you have a problem with one element, but not enough to make a big ol' circle next to it. I imagine that rider had a split second to decide whether she was going to let her horse bolt past the water complex and try to regain control in the more open area beyond it, where it would be easier and safer to circle, or whether she was going to try not to "give up" on the complex by circling near it, gaining control, and presenting to it. My impression was that she picked the latter option and failed in making her circle (not a surprise, given the bolting horse) but NOT that she purposely aimed the horse toward the crowd to stop it. If the latter is the case, and I hope it's not, that's plain scary.

(FWIW, it rode fabulously and the cheering crowd was much fun! :D)

[snoopy]

I agree with BIP. This should be a discussion about the principals of Dangerous Riding and not about the person riding.



Ah don't they go hand and hand....

[Mary in Area 1]

[quote=NeverTime;3436730]My impression was that she picked the latter option and failed in making her circle (not a surprise, given the bolting horse) but NOT that she purposely aimed the horse toward the crowd to stop it. If the latter is the case, and I hope it's not, that's plain scary.

(quote]

NeverTime, I actually SPOKE to the rider after the XC. She TOLD me that she turned towards the crowd in a mistaken effort to slow/stop her horse. Although we had guessed that MIGHT have been the reason, I would not have posted it as fact if the rider herself had not TOLD me personally (in front of other people as well) that was the case.

And yes, it is PLAIN SCARY!

[NeverTime]

yikes. I imagine she wishes she could take that moment back.

[CANTEREOIN]

Ah don't they go hand and hand....

Sometimes, yes... but the tone of the discussions recently have gotten so personal that sometimes I have to check to see what board I'm reading.

[snoopy]

Sometimes, yes... but the tone of the discussions recently have gotten so personal that sometimes I have to check to see what board I'm reading.



Eventing

[CANTEREOIN]

Eventing

Oh... the friendly board. I forgot that was the one I liked the best!

[cyberbay]

Yikes, someone posted that the rider in question made a comment that she was going to make improvements/fix the (runaway) situation by talking to Leslie Law(?) about changing bits, and the poster said, "That was her only suggestion."

I think it's really important to NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS about what this rider was thinking, tried to do, or what she will be doing in the aftermath. Only if you've had several, complete conversations with her will you be in a position to make a statement about her intentions!! This applies to anyone, anytime, for any reason!!

It's incidences like this that keep me on my feet when spectating on xc, unless I know the layout is going to give me a huge leadtime to get to my feet and start running away!