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View Full Version : Hong Kong Venue Comes To Life With First Horse Inspection



Shrapnel
Aug. 8, 2008, 09:56 AM
Hong Kong Venue Comes To Life With First Horse Inspection:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/index.php?cat=1212907081247892&ShowArticle_ID=1280808082454297

2008 Olympic Eventing

ridgeback
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:03 AM
Man I feel bad for the Chilean riders...what a way to be kicked out.:(

belambi
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:04 AM
http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/4868945/olympics-britain-breathes-easy-foxpit-withdrawal-scare

royal militron
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:04 AM
Oh my goodness! I can't believe 2 horses where spun because they couldn't jog in hand?

belambi
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:07 AM
6.30 session tomorrow times
http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/EQ/C51CB/EQX003400.shtml#EQX003401

dressagetraks
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:08 AM
They've had 2 meters of rain since May? :eek:

Wow. And I thought I was getting drenched this year.

Weird on the Chilean horses. Surely they would have practiced this, you'd think.

ridgeback
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:15 AM
They've had 2 meters of rain since May? :eek:

Wow. And I thought I was getting drenched this year.

Weird on the Chilean horses. Surely they would have practiced this, you'd think.

The A/O's and Green horses for hunters have to jog for soundness every class and I'm still surprised how some can become pigs..

SparklePlenty
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:26 AM
Not trying to be negative.. just a question here.

After looking through the COTH's blog pictures i feel like the horses from USA look a little TOO ribby. Does anyone else feel this way? or is that how an Olympic Caliber in shape horse shoud look?


thanks!

KSevnter
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:29 AM
It isn't unusual for 4star horses to be a bit ribby and lean, particularly the TBs. But also take into consideration the amount of travelling these guys did, that type of stress makes horses drop weight instantly.

I competed in the North Georgia CCI* the year before the Atlanta Games and our horses were used as "test subjects" by the vets to see how they handle everything. My horse dropped 70 lbs from Sat am to Sat pm presumably in water weight.

mythical84
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:34 AM
I love the expression on Poggio's face. He's looks like he's just going for another walk in the park. :)

belambi
Aug. 8, 2008, 11:06 AM
http://www.efanational.com/image.asp?image=20267,20268,20269,20270,20271,2027 2,20273,20274,20275,20276,20277,20278,20279,20280, 20281,20282,20283,20284,20285,20286,20287&display=7

Regal Grace
Aug. 8, 2008, 11:12 AM
Not trying to be negative.. just a question here.

After looking through the COTH's blog pictures i feel like the horses from USA look a little TOO ribby. Does anyone else feel this way? or is that how an Olympic Caliber in shape horse shoud look?


thanks!

I thought that too once when I went to the jog up at Rolex 3-Day in Kentucky (Phillip Dutton's Connaught comes to mind) and I asked my Equine vet who used to work at Belmont Racetrack and he said generally horses of that caliber are very fit and lean. If you look at Racetrack TB's its similar and they drop quite easily before and after the race. When my OTTB mare has gone to horse shows like Garden State or HITS she goes off her feed and drops weights quickly too. She just goes into the zone like she's getting for race but otherwise she is fine.

TexasTB
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:02 PM
I definitely think the ribby-ness has a lot to do with the amount of traveling these horses have been doing to get to the games. Between the stress of the time traveling, and the time in quarantine, its amazing how much weight a horse can lose so quickly.

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:17 PM
I like the pic of Headley Brittania and Lucinda Fredericks. Neither of them are touching the ground at the moment the picture was taken.

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:21 PM
Oh my goodness! I can't believe 2 horses where spun because they couldn't jog in hand?
OK, I'm not an eventer. What is this term 'spun'? Unless it just literally means they spun the things in a small circle...?

Mel0309
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:23 PM
An expensive trip for the Chilians to just have to pack up and go home.

Do they not allow someone to help behind the horse - it is just for soundness, right, not training.

Glad the US horses are doing well and everyone passed!

KSevnter
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:37 PM
OK, I'm not an eventer. What is this term 'spun'? Unless it just literally means they spun the things in a small circle...?

It just means they didn't pass the jog (or in this case didn't jog at all apparently).

Janeway
Aug. 8, 2008, 01:16 PM
I feel sorry for the Chileans! and what about Olympic spirit? Surely the ground jury could have allowed the grooms to help trot them up? As Mel pointed out, the trot up is not a competitive phase.

Its kind of sad really.

AM
Aug. 8, 2008, 01:23 PM
According to Brian O'Connor's blog, only one of the Chilean horses was not accepted. The other horse that was not accepted was a Brazilian horse who was lame.

Regal Grace
Aug. 8, 2008, 01:26 PM
Besides not trotting I think the horse did not look good either. At least that's the impression Brian conveys in his blog.....

Here is a portion of what he had to say along with the link to the full posting on his blog.

"Well the horse inspection was not without drama....most horses were sharp, looked great, full of energy , and were presented fine. The US horses all looked good, even when they asked Phillip to re-jog (what for?)...Connaught was fine. Two horses were NOT accepted, one from Brazil (lame) and one from Chile. The Chilean horse would not even trot down the lane, no kidding,..the rider had to drag him down the lane. The horse looked awful (I mean sick), did not even walk well, and when the rider borrowed a small whip (to jazz up the horse a bit) the horse backed up scared, looked terrible and was really an embarrassment. The judges did not even ask him to re-jog (it was that bad). How this horse even got qualified to be in the Olympics is beyond all of us. We have never, ever , seen such a situation. Good thing we have these checks and balances from the officials to be able to prevent any further embarrasment, or worse, injury. We all hope this horse can get some medication to help him feel better - he was not right at all."

http://special.equisearch.com/blog/brianoconnor/

Larksmom
Aug. 8, 2008, 01:33 PM
First: It is UNBELIEVABLE that the Chilean riders did not know how to jog a horse. :dead: Did they not have a coach? Could they not see what everyone else was doing? Have they never done this before? It may have been a good thing they were spun if thewy cannot even jog!
Second:It seemed to me the only horse I saw on a long rein was Comet. I always notice that as the rider is supposed to leave the head free. If the horse is lame, the head would bob, and while I am sure these guys aren't lame, most of the riders really had a tight hold on the reins.
one last question: after the fiasco of Athens, who DID end up with the Gold medal? Was it the gorgeous French horse Sauvage?

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:35 PM
Some other countries have totally different criteria for how they pick their teams. In these cases, it is not nearly as competitive and stringent a process as ours and some of the other bigger countries.

I know this because my ex represented Puerto Rico in the Pan Ams and basically, all you had to do was prove citizenship. Your name got added to the list through your country's Olympic committee representation and off you went. It was amazing (in a scary way).

The people that represented PR had no international experience whatsoever. We're talking, had never left the island. My ex had the most experience, having grown up in the US and was fortunate to have a horse of the Leone's on loan. Peter arranged for him to train with the horse at the USET for a few weeks prior and he'd done several grands prix on his own horses before that. But everyone else just had little unassuming horses that had been imported from Argentina or the DR or had been born and raised right there on the island. But I have to say, they all tried their little hearts out. Their performances certainly were not dismal by any means.

They had no coach when they went and Peter, looking out for his investment, took the time to accompany his horse and my ex and kept an eye on the horse throughout the games. Which was uber-cool for me because I got to glean all kinds of goodies from Peter each day when we walked the course.

So, hearing about the Chilean as appearing to be unprepared does not surprise me at all. I'd venture to say the guy is pretty much on his own and he and his horse have probably had limited int'l experience.

BAC
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:44 PM
Surely the ground jury could have allowed the grooms to help trot them up? As Mel pointed out, the trot up is not a competitive phase.

I think the rules require the rider to trot the horse. I do remember Ginny Leng having to get permission for a groom to jog her horse at one of the big events (Badminton or Burghley?) because she had been injured on cross country and was unable to "trot" although she was able to manage to ride the show jumping phase.

It does seem lacking in Olympic spirit not to allow them to have some help though, very sad.

asterix
Aug. 8, 2008, 03:18 PM
On occasion at Rolex someone will be too gimpy to jog their horse after XC day -- in these cases that I have seen it is always another competitor who jogs for them.

If Brian O'Connor's blog is accurate, however, the horse could not/would not jog because he was feeling crappy. In a way this is a lack of experience, too, as I doubt any experienced international rider would present at the Olympics without having pushed a few buttons and inquired as to perkiness and wellness that morning ;)

FairWeather
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:29 PM
From the O'conner blog, it seems as though the Chilean horse just wasn't looking "right" and was described as "sick".
Poor guy :(

Drvmb1ggl3
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:36 PM
Some other countries have totally different criteria for how they pick their teams. In these cases, it is not nearly as competitive and stringent a process as ours and some of the other bigger countries.

The FEI has strict criteria as to who can compete at a CC1****, and a CSI***** and CDI**** for that matter.
You can't just show up with a horse and say you're their to represent Guinea-Bassau. You have to have qualified by having competed and completed certain levels, I can't remember the exact details, but I'm sure they are available on the FEI website.
So the Chilean riders would have had to have competed in a FEI recognised CCI in the past and would have been through a jog and inspection.

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:39 PM
The FEI has strict criteria as to who can compete at a CC1****, and a CSI***** and CDI**** for that matter.
You can't just show up with a horse and say you're their to represent Guinea-Bassau. You have to have qualified by having competed and completed certain levels, I can't remember the exact details, but I'm sure they are available on the FEI website.
So the Chilean riders would have had to have competed in a FEI recognised CCI in the past and would have been through a jog and inspection.
Well, that's just sad, then.

I feel terrible for the guy that he got all the way there and had to get sent home. What an awful shame.

mbarrett
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:49 PM
Sorry, but if the gentlemen from Chile couldn't trot their horses for the vet. inspection, they should be spun. This isn't Pony Club or 4H, it's the OLYMPICS! They had better be prepared. If they aren't prepared, then they need to go home and get some help and coaching.

I am glad they were spun. What if everyone felt sorry for them because they couldn't trot their horses for the vet inspection, and the officials let them continue in the competition anyway? Can you imagine what would happen to these guys and their horses in the cross country!? You think there is an image problem with eventing now, what would happen if these guys had a wreck during the Olympic cross country?

I know we're all hoping for a safe trip for all competitors for the cross country. Why on earth would you want folks who are not up to the task competing? That's what the vet. inspections are for.

Something to think about. RIDER RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:59 PM
Sorry, but if the gentlemen from Chile couldn't trot their horses for the vet. inspection, they should be spun. This isn't Pony Club or 4H, it's the OLYMPICS! They had better be prepared. If they aren't prepared, then they need to go home and get some help and coaching.

I am glad they were spun. What if everyone felt sorry for them because they couldn't trot their horses for the vet inspection, and the officials let them continue in the competition anyway? Can you imagine what would happen to these guys and their horses in the cross country!? You think there is an image problem with eventing now, what would happen if these guys had a wreck during the Olympic cross country?

I know we're all hoping for a safe trip for all competitors for the cross country. Why on earth would you want folks who are not up to the task competing? That's what the vet. inspections are for.

Something to think about. RIDER RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!
No, I'm with ya - just saying how sad for him either way. I'm sure he didn't fund himself. It's a shame the investment to get him there was made and then have the results (or lack thereof) he delivered before the games even kicked off.

But, where did I read it -- was it Brian Sosby's blog? where it said the horse appeared NQR. So, maybe it wasn't a matter of the guy not knowing how to jog (and if you take into account what Drvmb1ggl3 said, I'm sure it isn't his first jog) but just simply that the horse just did not weather the trip well at all. If that is the case, which is what it sounds like, I sincerely hope the horse recovers well.

Ja Da Dee
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:02 PM
Hopefully his horse recovers quickly. It almost looks like he's about to tie up in the picture. The travel has got to be hard on the horses. It's sad for any rider to get spun especially before the XC phase. What a dissapointment.

Drvmb1ggl3
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:04 PM
HORSE AND RIDER MINIMUM ELIGIBILITY STANDARD
All horses/riders who take part in the 2008 Olympic Games must achieve the following minimum
eligibility standard as a combination by obtaining “FEI qualifying results” in the following level of
competition:
- 1 qualifying result at a CCI 4*, or
- 1 qualifying result in a CCI 3* AND 1 qualifying result in a CIC 3*.
An FEI qualifying result is achieved by completing the above competitions within the minimum
parameters of an all round performance, with:
- Not less than 50% Dressage good marks;
- 20 jumping penalties on Cross Country Obstacles, not more than 90 seconds over the
optimum Cross Country phase time. At 4* events, the maximum time by which the
optimum time may be exceeded is 120 seconds;
- not more than 16 jumping penalties on Show Jumping.
Riders and horses may obtain the minimum eligibility standard at events at the specified level which
take place between 1 January 2007 and 30 June 2008.
List of approved selected events counting for achieving minimum eligibility standards for 2007 and
2008 will be published on the FEI website: http://www.horsesport.org/.


So any horse and rider on the ground in HK has been through at least a CCI***.
There was something obvioulsy wrong with the horse, not a issue of the rider never having jogged a horse.

MyReality
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:14 PM
Feeling crappy or NQR is not an excuse for not being able to jog. Horses jog even when they are in pain, that's how we evaluate them and present to vet in the first place, so they need to learn how to jog even in poor circumstances. We're talking something extremely painful like founder that the horse can't move.

I saw in one of the pics, the guy is holding a whip. Why is he pulling the horse by the bit, when he could have used the whip? Perhaps whip is forbidden?

mbarrett
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:15 PM
Anyplace Farm, OK, I agree that it was because the horse was sick, not that he couldn't jog, why the horse was spun. However, why on earth is the rider presenting a SICK horse at the first horse inspection?

Who's the coach for that team?

Yes, he made a huge investment to get to the Olympics, but you have to be a horseman first. If your horse is sick, no go in the Big Game. It's too bad, but that's the way it is. This is the Olympics! You better be prepared!

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:20 PM
I feel sorry for the Chileans! and what about Olympic spirit? Surely the ground jury could have allowed the grooms to help trot them up? As Mel pointed out, the trot up is not a competitive phase.

Its kind of sad really.



It is typically not an issue of training....it is an issue of soundness. No one goes through the expense of shipping to someplace like Hong Kong thinking that their horse will not be sound enough to pass the Jog. But horses get hurt during shipping....or sick. This is why in eventing there is a jog before the begining of the competition...and another jog after xc before stadium. It is to ensure that the horses are physically fit enough to safely compete or continue competing. However, I believe the Chilean horse is also a stallion....so besides perhaps not feeling right, he was having a stallion moment.

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:23 PM
I definitely think the ribby-ness has a lot to do with the amount of traveling these horses have been doing to get to the games. Between the stress of the time traveling, and the time in quarantine, its amazing how much weight a horse can lose so quickly.


The horses should look a little ribby...but coats should be healthy and eyes bright. These are not show hunters....they are as fit if not fitter than a race horse. You do not want even a remotely heavy horse galloping xc at this level....it would be a good way to get them injured. They are trained to be at peak fittness for this event and will then be let down in terms of fitness following the event. Take a good look at the runners....especially long distance runners....that is the type of athlete these horses are.

huntrpaint
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:26 PM
Feeling crappy or NQR is not an excuse for not being able to jog. Horses jog even when they are in pain, that's how we evaluate them and present to vet in the first place, so they need to learn how to jog even in poor circumstances. We're talking something extremely painful like founder that the horse can't move.

I saw in one of the pics, the guy is holding a whip. Why is he pulling the horse by the bit, when he could have used the whip? Perhaps whip is forbidden?
I've had horses tie up and when they have tied up they don't jog. You're lucky sometimes to get them to walk out of their stalls.

Ajierene
Aug. 8, 2008, 05:44 PM
Besides not trotting I think the horse did not look good either. At least that's the impression Brian conveys in his blog.....

Here is a portion of what he had to say along with the link to the full posting on his blog.

"Well the horse inspection was not without drama....most horses were sharp, looked great, full of energy , and were presented fine. The US horses all looked good, even when they asked Phillip to re-jog (what for?)...Connaught was fine. Two horses were NOT accepted, one from Brazil (lame) and one from Chile. The Chilean horse would not even trot down the lane, no kidding,..the rider had to drag him down the lane. The horse looked awful (I mean sick), did not even walk well, and when the rider borrowed a small whip (to jazz up the horse a bit) the horse backed up scared, looked terrible and was really an embarrassment. The judges did not even ask him to re-jog (it was that bad). How this horse even got qualified to be in the Olympics is beyond all of us. We have never, ever , seen such a situation. Good thing we have these checks and balances from the officials to be able to prevent any further embarrasment, or worse, injury. We all hope this horse can get some medication to help him feel better - he was not right at all."

http://special.equisearch.com/blog/brianoconnor/

In the Chilean's defense - it might be a bad reaction to travel. I would think that Chile would be just as interested in getting the best rider as anyone else. It might have been training issues that the Chile government was unaware of, but it may have been just to much for the horse. Not knowing how they select their horses, it is possible international venues - especially ones that require the horse to take an airplane ride - may not be a requirement.

I feel bad for him, he must have been embarrassed at the turn of events. I'm glad the US team did not have any issues.

Clear Blue
Aug. 8, 2008, 06:33 PM
There are plenty of reasons for a horse to be painful and not want to jog (pleuritis, laminitis, tying up, etc.).

It is such a long trip it is inevitable that not all will travel well. I hope that the horse gets some medical attention and ends up ok.

Arizona DQ
Aug. 8, 2008, 06:43 PM
Sorry for my ignorance. But what does "spun" mean? I understand the horse cannot compete, but I am unfamiliar with this term. Where did it come from? TIA. :confused:

bornfreenowexpensive
Aug. 8, 2008, 06:47 PM
Sorry for my ignorance. But what does "spun" mean? I understand the horse cannot compete, but I am unfamiliar with this term. Where did it come from? TIA. :confused:


Good question...I've been eventing for a long time and do not really know. It always seemed to me that they have to spin around and go back to the barn instead of continuing on to the competition. But there is likely a story behind the term.

Anyplace Farm
Aug. 8, 2008, 06:57 PM
Anyplace Farm, OK, I agree that it was because the horse was sick, not that he couldn't jog, why the horse was spun. However, why on earth is the rider presenting a SICK horse at the first horse inspection?

Who's the coach for that team?

Yes, he made a huge investment to get to the Olympics, but you have to be a horseman first. If your horse is sick, no go in the Big Game. It's too bad, but that's the way it is. This is the Olympics! You better be prepared!
Totally, totally with you on this. Just must not be coming out in my responses.

Hunter's Rest
Aug. 8, 2008, 07:02 PM
Spun = turned around ('spun' around) and sent packing back to his stall.

Thames Pirate
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:45 PM
I would just like to note that not only do they have to have qualifying results, but they also need to have enough international points. They get points based on placings at these events as well (so completing 2 CCIs is better than completing one, placing well is better than finishing with a qualifying score, etc.) All riders are ranked internationally according to their points. Since countries such as the US, who might have 75 riders ranked highly, can only send 5 riders, riders such as the Chileans can get in. They take the highest ranked individuals that are not part of teams. As riders pull out due to financial issues, training choices, injuries, etc. the next riders are chosen (so there is a wait list).

Incidentally, I'll bet they paid most of their way themselves. I worked for a rider who was his country's only representative at the highest levels of eventing, and he was wait listed for Athens. Each week we moved up the list, and it literally came down to the last few days before he decided to pull his name out; he didn't want to fly his horse that far without knowing if he could compete.

The Chilean riders probably placed decently at their events; let's not knock them. Let's also remember that many of us had to be taught to trot up our horses somewhere along the line (whether from a T3DE or from coaches). In addition, they could be having a hard time adjusting. Let's cut him some slack for not knowing how to properly present. However, I don't disagree with the vets' decision.