Anyone compete with a hackamore?

[good booie]

I will often ride my horse bareback with just a halter and lead tied to the sides. Mostly because of the heat and me just being lazy. I don't school in the ring like this but out in the field (100 acres). Last night I did some cross country work and he was a prince.

[cudabear]

I have in the past competed XC in a hackamore. But I was leary of stadium if it was a tight, jumper course; the long big turns/curves on some courses were fine. I did do a few stadium rounds in it, would have worked better if she was listening to my turn cues. But she has a huge stride so I wasn't worried about time.

My mare can get really strong on course, the hackamore kept her from pulling me out of the saddle. It was easy to regulate her speed, but tight turns were a little tricky with the hackamore I was using. I've been looking into other "bitless" options but now she can't jump so I won't be eventing her anymore.:cry:

When I trail ride her I'm lazy and use a side pull. It basically a glorified halter. She works great in it. I was thinking about trying it for jumping but she hurt herself before I could, now can't jump anymore.

[mjrtango93]

I used a hackamore for everything but my actual dressage test on my old one star horse. He had a facial deformity from a pasture accident as a yearling and using a bit would cut the one side open and it was quite painful for him. He went really well in the hackamore and I never had a problem steering or stopping even on the tight turns.

My advanced horse switched to a hackamore for SJ as well. He was way to strong cross country for one, but too soft and gumby-like in SJ for even the happy mouth nathe I rode him in for dressage. He loved the hackamore and again never had any problems with even the tightest turns. Both horses however were incredibly broke and very sensitive so all I had to do was think turn and they would.

[good booie]

What are the different types of hackamores? What about bitless bridles? Is one better than the other?

[bludini]

I used a hackamore for everything but my actual dressage test on my old one star horse. He had a facial deformity from a pasture accident as a yearling and using a bit would cut the one side open and it was quite painful for him.
In these cases, I think the rules committee should be able to make an exception. It's physically painful for this horse to have a bit in his mouth, but the deciding factions can't be called upon to think outside the box and make an exception.

I'm not talking about exceptions for horses who resent the bit and behave fussily because of it.

Just My Opinion which means absolutely nothing. Just felt like a light rant was needed.

I now return you to your regular programming.

[mjrtango93]

In these cases, I think the rules committee should be able to make an exception. It's physically painful for this horse to have a bit in his mouth, but the deciding factions can't be called upon to think outside the box and make an exception.

I'm not talking about exceptions for horses who resent the bit and behave fussily because of it.

Just My Opinion which means absolutely nothing. Just felt like a light rant was needed.

I now return you to your regular programming.

Believe it or not at 2 recognized events I was actually allowed special permission to compete him without a bit. Both times were because he had re-injured the area (his mouth was half sewn shut on one side with this wierd bubble from scar tissue) and I approached the ground jury beforehand. I was not allowed to ride in a hackamore or sidepull because the action is different and it would have been unfair for me to have a curb chain in a prelim test when nobody else did. What I got permission to ride in was a drop noseband with a rein attached to that lower ring. Colin was a saint and actually a higher level dressage horse so it was no issue, but I got some wierd looks in warm up with nothing on him but a drop noseband with a browband and a rein.

[ThirdCharm]

I have one mare who I have been riding at home in a mech. hack for two months, and she goes SOOOO much better o/f. I have not competed her in it yet, but have schooled xc and it made a huge difference. Turning is not a problem as she has always been excellent on the flat and turns off outside leg/rein. I usually ride her in the hack at home, but occassionally I throw the snaffle on for flatwork and she still goes great in that, so that isn't a problem....

Jennifer

[tx3dayeventer]

Didn't Becky Douglas show jump at Rolex in a hack?

[mjrtango93]

Didn't Becky Douglas show jump at Rolex in a hack?

Becky, Heidi, Amy with Poggio just to name a few. Kirsten Bonds old horse Diablo Centimo used to go in one as well. Plenty of people show in a hackamore!

[Gnep]

I ride my Nutty Woman with a Hack. She hates anykind of bit, which makes Dressage an interesting affair, even that we have surprisingly good scores.
Jumping in a bit is next to impossible, she concentrates on her hate for any bit on that piece of metal in her mouth and takes jumps down in record numbers.
The Hack was a recomendation from Mike Hubert and it works just nice. The Woman is very well trained and an easy stear, reacts nicely to rein and weight and leg imput.
With the standart leather nose hack she is exelent in stadium, but at Prelim a handfull in X-C.
Once past 500 and the juices flowing nicely it takes some power to step on the brakes.
I will try a covered bicycle chain Hack with 7 inch shanks next.
I tried a double bridle combination Hack with snaffel, no go, the bit thing.

Even on a very well broken and normaly easily to controll horse which is dandy with a hack, one should realy be careful going X-C, once the juices flow it could become to damm interesting.

[NRB]

I use an "English Hackamore" in the Dover catalog, the one with fleece on the inside of the leather noseband. It has great brakes, steering not so good, esp if they pop a shoulder out on a turn. Sometimes I feel that it's too much brakes and makes my guy jump flat...less round and thrusty from behind, more flat back, head up. Of course all of that is probablly due to rider error, but it only happens in the hackamore.

[quietann]

My girl has been in a hackamore for jumping and X/C. She hates(hated???) contact with her mouth, especially over fences, and would grab the bit and run off. We also were under the mistaken impression that she had dental issues, and had a several week wait for the vet. So her rider at the time (a brave young teen) switched her to a jumping hackamore with short shanks. She stopped running off, while remaining eminently steerable by seat and legs. She's small and catty and super-athletic.

Now she's in (re)training, dressage only right now, and we've found a bit she accepts, at least on the flat. But I can say I'll go back to the hackamore if she goes back to her old tricks, once her jumping days start up again.

[pony grandma]

Believe it or not at 2 recognized events I was actually allowed special permission to compete him without a bit.

Who do you appeal to, the TD, I imagine. And how might this be able to be determined earlier, before the actual event, who might I go to within the USEA and get an answer? I only ask b/c we are working with an OTTB who almost had his tongue cut in two with a bit at the track. Obviously he'll go in a jump hackamore as much as possible. I will experiment with some tongue relief bits, but not much is legal for dressage. He's such a good guy despite his somewhat shady history of scanky claiming trainers. He's certainly deserves to be able to be useful beyond his injury. TKS!

[mjrtango93]

Who do you appeal to, the TD, I imagine. And how might this be able to be determined earlier, before the actual event, who might I go to within the USEA and get an answer? I only ask b/c we are working with an OTTB who almost had his tongue cut in two with a bit at the track. Obviously he'll go in a jump hackamore as much as possible. I will experiment with some tongue relief bits, but not much is legal for dressage. He's such a good guy despite his somewhat shady history of scanky claiming trainers. He's certainly deserves to be able to be useful beyond his injury. TKS!

The two times I was granted permission I did it at the event. The first day I went and found the president of the ground jury and TD and spoke with them. The ground jury would come take a look with the vet and agree on the fact that the bit would cause issue and unneeded discomfort. I never did it before like say going through the USEA or anything but just on a case by case deal. There were also many shows that I was turned down and warmed him up in a hack or a noseband and then threw a bridle on right before going down the centerline and then dropped the bit out the second we were done.

[AmandaandTuff]

What are the different types of hackamores? What about bitless bridles? Is one better than the other?

http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Hackamores.html

They have a pretty wide selection of hackamores, depending on what you were looking for (stopping, rating, or turning) each one would be better for a specific issue. I'd stay away from the mechanical hackamores.

[bludini]

Who do you appeal to, the TD, I imagine. And how might this be able to be determined earlier, before the actual event, who might I go to within the USEA and get an answer? I only ask b/c we are working with an OTTB who almost had his tongue cut in two with a bit at the track. Obviously he'll go in a jump hackamore as much as possible. I will experiment with some tongue relief bits, but not much is legal for dressage. He's such a good guy despite his somewhat shady history of scanky claiming trainers. He's certainly deserves to be able to be useful beyond his injury. TKS!

The two times I was granted permission I did it at the event. The first day I went and found the president of the ground jury and TD and spoke with them. The ground jury would come take a look with the vet and agree on the fact that the bit would cause issue and unneeded discomfort. I never did it before like say going through the USEA or anything but just on a case by case deal. There were also many shows that I was turned down and warmed him up in a hack or a noseband and then threw a bridle on right before going down the centerline and then dropped the bit out the second we were done.


I'd just like to say, THANK YOU to both of you for the obvious devotion you show for your horses' comfort. I really believe that a petition needs to be made to the rules committee, REPEATEDLY until they see the light and can offer this kind of dispensation for these cases.

There needs to be an addendum to the rules that states, "in the case of mouth or head injuries(healed) where it is apparent that the horse is in discomfort due to the bit, special dispensation may be granted by the ground jury..." so that the ground juries, TDs, etc are aware that they can grant this permission. Perhaps, down the road, a "card" can be presented to the owner/rider that they would present at the time of entry to simply show this problem has been reviewed and bitless permission has been granted for this horse.

Again, I'm not talking about horses who resent the bit simply because they don't like being told what to do. My mare is so soft mouthed that I ride her in a rubber dog bone, no metal in the mouth at all, on all three phases. It has made me very cognizant of my hands and the effectiveness of my communication through my hands. No, I'm talking about these instances where the horse is tortured by the bit but is an amazing, willing partner nonetheless.

This can work, but it will take some time. Remember, there was a time, not too long ago, when we couldn't have copper in the mouth, couldn't carry a whip in dressage, couldn't use "tongue relief" bits in any way.

[ThirdCharm]

http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Hackamores.html

They have a pretty wide selection of hackamores, depending on what you were looking for (stopping, rating, or turning) each one would be better for a specific issue. I'd stay away from the mechanical hackamores.

How do you define mechanical hackamore? Most of the hackamores on the link are what I would consider mechanical hackamores (utilizing leverage), the others are bit/mech hack combinations.

Jennifer

[AmandaandTuff]

I agree that all of them are mechanical hackamores, but some are described/named a mechanical hackamore vs. something like the little S or beetle hackamore.

http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Hackamores/Mechanical-Hackamore-Rubber-Covered-Bicycle-Chain-Horse-Size-WBF15.html

http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Hackamores/Bike-Chain-Hackamore-WBE41.html

http://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Hackamores/Flat-Leather-Nosed-Hackamore-WBA22.html

Those are what are referred to as 'mechanical' hackamores over here in the western world. They wouldn't work at all unless you plan on just neck reining, they can do too much damage to the face if you direct rein. I've seen many horses get hurt, not to mention they apply much more pressure per pound than most other hackamores due to their longer, straight, even forward shanks. I used one the first time I rode my horse in a hackamore and he resorted to rearing at the slightest pressure.

[pony grandma]

I really believe that a petition needs to be made to the rules committee, REPEATEDLY until they see the light and can offer this kind of dispensation for these cases.

There needs to be an addendum to the rules that states, "in the case of mouth or head injuries(healed) where it is apparent that the horse is in discomfort due to the bit, special dispensation may be granted by the ground jury..." so that the ground juries, TDs, etc are aware that they can grant this permission. Perhaps, down the road, a "card" can be presented to the owner/rider that they would present at the time of entry to simply show this problem has been reviewed and bitless permission has been granted for this horse.

I'm talking about these instances where the horse is tortured by the bit but is an amazing, willing partner nonetheless.

And THANK YOU too! Both us and the horse! Exactly the point to be made. I will send my thoughts along regarding this to USEA. I can understand a dressage horse needing to be bitted to be used exclusively for that discipline, but eventing should be able to factor some considerations for these very special cases.

And thanks to the forums here I did find this exceptional buy for a hackamore. http://www.beval.com/Products/Sheepskin-Hackamore/2101200.aspx

[Pandarus33]

My TB/Standardbred functions the best in a hackamore. I used the really short shanked kind with the leather on the outside and fleece on the inside plus Sealtex wrapped around the chain part of the curb. She's a total princess- the fleece can't be worn down or stiff, take off the Sealtex and she freaks, put on a leather curb and she won't stop. The leather has to be formed to her skinny head which takes me about 6 weeks of shaping it before I can use a new one on her. Consequentially, I always have one on her bridle and two mor being "worked" behind the tack room door. It took me months (and five other types of hacks) to find the right combination for her.

So, she has her Boucher french-link for dressage and everything else is in her hackamore. She steers beautifully with leg so steering isn't much of an issue. She's happy, focused and rarin' to go with her hackmore. Before I tried a hack, we went through 15 different bits and she fought every one of them. Yes, her teeth had been floated, no back pain, etc. She is just really fussy with bits. We found what worked for us and I'm totally thrilled!