PDA

View Full Version : Isabell Werth wants the video-walls removed at HongKong



freestyle2music
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:07 AM
Isabell Werth's Satchmo paniced yesterday-evening. The hugh videowall in the main arena was the cause that Satchmo almost felt on his back. Isabell told that she will file an official protest to get the screen removed or at least switched off during the training and tests.

Theo

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:14 AM
Isabell Werth's Satchmo paniced yesterday-evening. The hugh videowall in the main arena was the cause that Satchmo almost felt on his back. Isabell told that she will file an official protest to get the screen removed or at least switched off during the training and tests.

Theo

Good for her I think that video screen is crazy...

slc2
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:21 AM
It is too much. They are not robots. I don't think that place is really built for horses.

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:39 AM
I hope she is able to get that for all the competitors, it sounds like a terrible distraction.

Kareen
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:43 AM
It's a scary place for horses in itself I agree. Why do they need to put a huge videoscreen up on top? If there is need for one why not have it elsewhere to give an extra space for watching...

Regal Grace
Aug. 6, 2008, 09:17 AM
At the 4 minute mark of this video made by Anky's husband Sejf you can see the horses schooling in the ring near the the Video Wall. There is a horse that is spooking (it looks like it could be Isabell Worth but not sure) In any event, it's not a big spook or rearing but you can see the horse is not digging that video wall and it seems in the commentary that Sejf is noting it too.

http://horsus.nl/olympischespelen/bekijken/755699/

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 09:44 AM
What, THAT little thing?? Please.

I agree that overall the place is scary for horses. The video screen may possibly need to be moved upwards a bit, above their sight line.

But remove it?? Are we not being just a *bit* extreme? Honestly, coming from 2 different disciplines (jumpers; ASBs) where large screens for the audience are bog-standard whether we like them or not... Get over it, Isabell, sorry.

magnolia73
Aug. 6, 2008, 09:51 AM
Watching that video, several horses are shown working near the video wall with little problem. These are horses expected to perform in tense, electric conditions. Yes, unfair to not be able to get used to the videos, but it is a part of showing to have outside distractions. It seems unfair to say "OK, 80% of the horses were fine, but we'll take it down since 20% including the favorite are not fine". Should the judges ignore a horse that spooks at a banner or fence or judges box?

Bottom line- horses and riders should be able to handle the conditions given. If not, go home.

Regal Grace
Aug. 6, 2008, 10:12 AM
on the Video Wall. Came across this blog posting from Event rider Selena O'Hanlon

Day 10 - Aug 5th
Jog at 8 am Colombo looking very sound according to Dr. Ober. Yipee! Needed a few clenches tightened on his right front shoe, so Chris Volke the team farrier helped me out there. Light ride at 9 am.

Well no one told Colombo that. I took him into the main arena to walk around and get used to it more. Remember how I said he was easy when I rode him there last and the TV’s were on and the music…well. They had a TERRIBLE demo video on one of the big screens. It looked like a computer game from the days of the Commodore 64. It was showing the dressage tests and penalties for eventing and show jumping. Well every time the GIANT horse came on the screen most of the horses in the arena would spook and get upset. Colombo thought that was a great excuse, well if they’re doing it I should too. I walked and walked and walked trying to get him to settle and ignore it. Finally I gave up and just gave it some distance and walked around the rest of the ring. I took him to the large schooling ring and trotted a few steps of shoulder-in and half pass. Then worked a little on his canter (Mark Todd square) again. He was great because the excitement was just enough to get his butt underneath him.

http://www.horse-canada.com/?cat=48

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 10:58 AM
I don't think it would need to be removed, but it would seem sensible not to show extra busy animated nonsense during tests. Would it kill them for the screen to show a still picture during people's tests?

magnolia73
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:02 AM
Would it kill them for the screen to show a still picture during people's tests?

That would make sense. And be fair. That way you don't have one horse seeing a blank screen and one seeing some crazy video with flickering.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:09 AM
Um, well, no, the point is for it to be like a rock concert - where the video screen provides a closer look at what's going on LIVE. I looked at the pics everyone has provided, and I actually thought it was pretty generous and sensible of the organizers to provide them with a "giant horse" to practice to!

Anyone here ever been to any of the horse shows they hold in KY at The Red Mile? Now THAT is some scary sh*t: you're entering the ring at a spanking trot with a bunch of other horses - and what all y'all's horses are *seeing* is the big video screen at the *other* end of the ring, with seemingly a whole herd of giant horses trotting straight at them!!

This would account for my "cowboy up, Izzy" attitude, no doubt! :lol:

ThreeFigs
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:12 AM
I've never seen a big screen that close to an arena. Jumbotrons are usually placed high up in the stadium and well away from the horse's line of sight. I think this placement is just stupid.

Most of the horses seemed to ignore the video screen, but still! Depending on what's being projected on the screen at a given time, it could surely cause a distraction for the riders and judges. I hope they shut it off for the duration of the tests.

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:28 AM
Um, well, no, the point is for it to be like a rock concert - where the video screen provides a closer look at what's going on LIVE. I looked at the pics everyone has provided, and I actually thought it was pretty generous and sensible of the organizers to provide them with a "giant horse" to practice to!

Anyone here ever been to any of the horse shows they hold in KY at The Red Mile? Now THAT is some scary sh*t: you're entering the ring at a spanking trot with a bunch of other horses - and what all y'all's horses are *seeing* is the big video screen at the *other* end of the ring, with seemingly a whole herd of giant horses trotting straight at them!!

This would account for my "cowboy up, Izzy" attitude, no doubt! :lol:

Um Yea been to the red mile and if you are comparing those crazy saddlebreds to how a dressage horse is suppose to behave that is not realistic..

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:39 AM
Um Yea been to the red mile and if you are comparing those crazy saddlebreds to how a dressage horse is suppose to behave that is not realistic..

Why not? They're all expected to show obedience, pay attention to their riders and perform the requested movements correctly, not stop-prop-and-blow because they see Giant Horsies.

We expect our *junior equitation riders* to put in meticulous, letter-perfect individual tests in the Red Mile ring. If it's THAT damn hard at the Olympics, how come Izzy is the only one complaining?

Ah well: perhaps the monsoon will blow the thing down! :lol:

Hopeful Hunter
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:40 AM
I dunno....

They ARE getting the chance to work the horses on site to acclimate to the ring, and the screen. Yes, it's a bit low, but they do have a chance to introduce it. They're even being given actual moving video to work with.

Isn't dressage all about that whole "submission" thing anyway? Welllll....IF the horse is truly obedient, on the aids and submissive, seems to me the horse should maybe flick an eyelash but go on about its business, in the gait and pace selected by the rider, regardless!

Many of us talk about getting people involved, increasing the spectator base and demystifying equine sports. The big screen projection is a step toward that, IMO, allowing people to see the movements up close, even if they're not there. I think the concept is quite good, and frankly, maybe the riders just need to test their training and deal with it...

Heck, if Scout could finish his Green Conformation round at Devon WITH a whippet literally at his heels over the jumps - and stay on course, focused and not break at all - a video screen that isn't actually chasing a horse should be OK, too!

Mozart
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:41 AM
It's the Olympics. I don't thinks she or anyone else should have to "cowboy up". All of those riders have spent a lifetime getting there; to have it potentially blown by a screen that is unusually big and unusually low down...I don't think it's fair.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:47 AM
It's the Olympics. I don't thinks she or anyone else should have to "cowboy up". All of those riders have spent a lifetime getting there; to have it potentially blown by a screen that is unusually big and unusually low down...I don't think it's fair.

How is it not fair? EVERY horse/rider combination who competes at the Olympics and WEG has to deal with a set of circumstances which is, after all, quite unique to those two events. The jumbotron is not likely to be turned ON just for Isabell's test and turned OFF for everybody else!!

Unless a horse has campaigned at that level before, it has probably never encountered noisy crowds of that size, or jumbotrons, or floodlights that bright, or being misted while ridden, or any of the other stuff that's going on. Being able to perform consistently and well under exceptionally trying circumstances is part of what makes an international horse truly Olympic-caliber.

I do agree that the screen would ideally be moved UP, but as to removing it completely, I'd vote no.

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:52 AM
I just hate the mindset that says all public events (baseball games, other sporting events, meetings) have to have the look and feel of a freaking video game. We are raising a generation of kids who can't pay attention to anything slower moving than a video game, and we are gonna be sorry for it.

Equestrian sports are not electronic phenomena. The audience needs to be ready to shut up, sit down, be quiet, watch, and let the horses do their thing. If you are too ADD to attend to something that doesn't look and behave like a video game, you shouldn't be taking up scarce seats and tickets.

(I am not always so cranky, but the perpetual motion jumbotrons make me nuts.)

Calvincrowe
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:52 AM
War Admiral, I'm with you. I've been to dressage shows where, if a stray napkin flutters, people gasp and panic! OOOH! It might spook a horse. Sheesh. Try a windy hunter show, with chairs flying into the ring, and jumps coming down while the Jack Russel just has to run into the ring while you're coming down a line which has pigeons scratching around in the dirt in.

Or, the killer umbrellas ringside?

Or, Harley's rumbling along the road next to the ring?

I get it that the screen is none of those things, but take a peak at a jumper show sometime--horses need to be used to distractions and high pressure situations to show at the Olympic/World level. Move it up if necessary, but Oy Vey.

Mozart
Aug. 6, 2008, 11:58 AM
I'm not saying just move it for Isabell or just the dressage horses, I think it is too much and should be moved for all of the horses.

And yes, there is plenty of distraction at hunter shows, but as someone who has shown hunters, jumpers, eventing and dressage, it is my experience that the same horse will react differently to an external distraction during a dressage test than during a jumping round. When they are jumping, the fences and the course in general have a much stronger "pull" on their attention. They notice much less of the external stimuli than when they are doing a dressage test.

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:04 PM
Moving it isn't necessary. Just project something STILL for the duration of each test.

And no one told the riders prepping for the Olympics that they would have to bombproof their horses for jumbotron animation before they came to Hong Kong. How exactly does one school that at your average indoor arena?

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:11 PM
Moving it isn't necessary. Just project something STILL for the duration of each test.

Thereby defeating the whole purpose. If I were to travel to Hong Kong & get stuck in the cheap seats, I know I would love to have a close-up of Isabell's (and everyone else's) application of the aids during the tests...

Guys, they had jumbotrons at the last WEG, too. For everybody. In this day & age I just think it's an occupational hazard that riders are going to have to learn to accept and work around, sorry.

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:12 PM
Why not? They're all expected to show obedience, pay attention to their riders and perform the requested movements correctly, not stop-prop-and-blow because they see Giant Horsies.

We expect our *junior equitation riders* to put in meticulous, letter-perfect individual tests in the Red Mile ring. If it's THAT damn hard at the Olympics, how come Izzy is the only one complaining?

Ah well: perhaps the monsoon will blow the thing down! :lol:

Obedience hmmm I don't think they are the same..I don't want to make this a saddlebred thing but they want those horses on the edge of exploding and I've seen plenty of it while at the red mile. I've seen horses spook, cut corners, can't stand in line and still win...lets just say it's different..Lets be clear they don't have a giant screen on the ground at red mile it's up in the air where the horses don't even notice it.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:13 PM
War Admiral, I understand that dressage shows in Europe are lots noisier and the crowds rowdier than here in the US. Yes, here we tend to treat dressage like a tennis or a chess match -- which is a bit over the top the OTHER way.

No, there's no comparison between Saddleseat and Dressage. As far as I know, no dressage trainer uses fire extinguishers and the like to "entertain" (yes, a term I''ve heard used by Saddleseat people) horses. The methods of training and expectations for ASB's is not even in the same universe as dressage.

A previous poster remarked that these people have worked years and years to get to the Olympics. Yes, everyone is likely to have to tolerate the Jumbotron, so in that sense, it's "fair". OTOH, what is fair about everyone having to put up with such a distracting device during what may be the most important competitive event of their lives? Why can't the 'tron be shut off for the duration of the tests? If it is meant for the people in the cheap seats, well, the placement is unfortunate. It is still placed too low compared to other venues I've seen. Move it higher and/or further back. The cheap seat folk will still benefit from it, but land's sakes, get it away from the arena edge!

If a person or a horse gets injured or killed, will you still be so smug? I hear the train a'coming on this one.

STF
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:13 PM
I dont blame her. Its stupid to have it there.
Poor horses thinks a HUGE horse from outerspace is out to get them

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:14 PM
Thereby defeating the whole purpose. If I were to travel to Hong Kong & get stuck in the cheap seats, I know I would love to have a close-up of Isabell's (and everyone else's) application of the aids during the tests...

Guys, they had jumbotrons at the last WEG, too. For everybody. In this day & age I just think it's an occupational hazard that riders are going to have to learn to accept and work around, sorry.

Yes they had them at the World Cup, Spruce meadows etc but the point that it's at ground level and the horse can see itself as it trots toward the screen is crazy.

magnolia73
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:16 PM
they would have to bombproof their horses for jumbotron animation before they came to Hong Kong

Some horses seem fine. Some horses need more bombproofing than others. Some need more work on being supple. Some need more work to get good gaits. Everything is a trade off. You have some benefit with a big explosive horse with great gaits- but there is sometimes a tradeoff. Why should anything be modified to accomodate what is indeed a fault of the horse's and its training?

They have a few days to get in that ring and get the horses used to it. Sorry your horse reacts to things by rearing dangerously. But you aren't a 4-Her at your first show. It's a risk you take showing a brilliant horse. The unexpected is expected to figure into scoring sometimes. That's part of a show.

Being a spook is not a "given" for performance horses......

Tiligsmom
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:25 PM
No, there's no comparison between Saddleseat and Dressage. As far as I know, no dressage trainer uses fire extinguishers and the like to "entertain" (yes, a term I''ve heard used by Saddleseat people) horses. The methods of training and expectations for ASB's is not even in the same universe as dressage.



Beasmom - AGREE! What a silly comparison!!!! All you have to do is watch a SB competition to see that Tension is stimulated and rewarded. Relaxation is the foundation of the Dressage training scale. The 2 are mutually exclusive.

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:25 PM
I ride a horse who didn't spook when an ultralight plane buzzed the field she was being trail ridden across. However, she won't be doing any Prix St. George work in the near future. (ha) It's an exceedingly rare horse who is both bombproof and extraordinarily athletic and talented.

The fact that the screen is down near ring level just seems like bad planning and a decisionmaking, divorced from the realities of handling horses. Most screens at arenas and stadiums are quite high in the air, making them a far less immediate source of distraction.

slc2
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:28 PM
This is not a napkin fluttering, and this is not a bunch of local DQ's.

Regal Grace
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:37 PM
http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2008/08og/pre_screen.html

Ginger
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:40 PM
Satchmo is not a novice dressage horse, and Isabel is not being a prissy DQ. She is putting the safety of her horse first, I applaud her for that. I hope she prevails. Maybe Satchmo reacted more because he was being ridden in a snaffle compared to everyone else who was in a double??

WA, you can see much better with binoculars than with a jumbotron, which usually has a pretty fuzzy picture anyway. I am sure you can find good ones pretty inexpensively in Hong Kong.

freestyle2music
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:48 PM
http://www.eurodressage.com/reports/shows/2008/08og/pre_screen.html

Yes I love this QOUTE :


In an interview with the Dutch national television (NOS news), Anky's Sjef trainer was asked if this year would be the year that the Dutch team would beat The Netherlands, and Janssen quipped, "you should ask if the Germans are able to beat the Dutch." The assertive Janssen, who is the official Dutch team trainer and Anky's year long individual coach, has all the right to say that it will be very hard for the Germans to beat The Netherlands this year based on the lower than average scoring performances of the Germans this show season.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:50 PM
LOL, OK, the Red Mile comparison wasn't all that apt - other than I was trying to *agree* with y'all that Jumbotrons can be scary.

However: Competitive riding - no matter what level or discipline - is a game of mental toughness and preparation.

All the team leaders, from every country, had the opportunity to review this layout and observe mock competitions in that selfsame arena with all the bells and whistles as early as 2007. They all knew the Jumbotron was going to be there WELL in advance. That gave them all plenty of time to be prepared.

I forget which blog I was reading, but I know one team was sufficiently concerned about the plastic horse statues scattered around at ringside that they went home and *built* some at Team HQ. You telling me that they couldn't afford a few grand for some big screen teevees?

Everybody from every country in every discipline has seen the Jumbotron well before these Games. No one else has said anything.

So what's Isabell playing at here? Did the rest of her team prepare at home with big screen teevees and she thought she was too epic to NEED to, and is now finding out the hard way? Or do you think she's playing a psychological game here with her fellow competitors?

I can see a certain amount of merit in trying to psych out one's fellow competitors so that THEY go in the ring all tensed up, thinking "OMG, OMG, my horse is gonna spook at that Jumbotron" and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...

There is no such thing as a perfect environment for any equestrian competition. Every horse, at some time in its competitive career, again irrespective of discipline, is going to have to compete in a ring where it Sees Dead People and other horses don't. And every rider is going to have to learn to deal effectively with that.

This is called competition. And I'm sorry, but any rider who is sitting there thinking "OMG, my horse is gonna spook at that" and whining that it should be removed is less of a rider than those more mentally toughwho just get on with the job of preparation.

gieriscm
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:55 PM
Well, it looks like the problem has resolved itself. From the article:

The monitor is not very technically reliable, and it can not be guaranteed that it will work during all rides, which will lead to unequal circumstances for the participants. So for the moment, the thing will stay shut down.

Also, after seeing the picture of it, I have to say that my horse would probably freak as well if I tried to ride by it.

Dixon
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:55 PM
Satchmo is not a novice dressage horse, and Isabel is not being a prissy DQ. She is putting the safety of her horse first, I applaud her for that. I hope she prevails. . . . you can see much better with binoculars than with a jumbotron, which usually has a pretty fuzzy picture anyway. I am sure you can find good ones pretty inexpensively in Hong Kong.

Yes. And the jumbotron is but one unusually visible example of how the Beijing Olympic organizers and the HK facilities do not place the horses' best interests first.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:58 PM
[QUOTE=gieriscm;3418598]
The monitor is not very technically reliable, and it can not be guaranteed that it will work during all rides, which will lead to unequal circumstances for the participants. So for the moment, the thing will stay shut down.

Now, that I would totally agree with.

mp
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:58 PM
Why not? They're all expected to show obedience, pay attention to their riders and perform the requested movements correctly, not stop-prop-and-blow because they see Giant Horsies.

What Beasmom said. If dressage horses were trained to be animated with fire extinguishers and shaker cans, you might have a point. Since they aren't and dressage tests aren't ridden "in a herd" the way rail classes are, you don't.

slc2
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:58 PM
Isabel has years and years of competing successfully at very, very noisy loud venues with all sorts of distractions and with very, very powerful, fit, excited horses performing the most difficult dressage tests at the highest standard in the world. I have seen her ride thru incredible spooks, bucks and young horse shenanigans on her video of training young horses.

If she says it's too much, it's too much.

magnolia73
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:12 PM
Satchmo is not a novice dressage horse, and Isabel is not being a prissy DQ. She is putting the safety of her horse first, I applaud her for that.

OK, then scratch. I can totally understand getting to a Venue, realizing your horse won't deal safely and scratching. Totally sucks if it is the Olympics. But people scratch the Olympics due to minor strains. Some chose to skip due to excess heat. It happens. Perhaps part of team selection should be about some level of reliability. I can see where it would be disconcerting to have a horse that spazzes out and almost falls. But probably most give a good spook, a buck, pop up or get tense. And it is probably more than Dobbin spooking at a paper- but then the riders are the BEST in the world and should be able to manage accordingly. That's a part of the game. Either you can play or you can't.

marta
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:13 PM
used to distractions much more than the american horses. the horseshows in europe are filled with lively audience, kids yell, things fall, they don't have that hushed atmosphere that you often find at the american horseshows. i'm a bit surprised that isabelle is having a problem with that screen.

Eclectic Horseman
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:18 PM
OK, then scratch. I can totally understand getting to a Venue, realizing your horse won't deal safely and scratching. Totally sucks if it is the Olympics. But people scratch the Olympics due to minor strains. Some chose to skip due to excess heat. It happens. Perhaps part of team selection should be about some level of reliability. I can see where it would be disconcerting to have a horse that spazzes out and almost falls. But probably most give a good spook, a buck, pop up or get tense. And it is probably more than Dobbin spooking at a paper- but then the riders are the BEST in the world and should be able to manage accordingly. That's a part of the game. Either you can play or you can't.


Oh please, is it about Dressage? Or Parelli? Or what? What is the athletic event here? What have these people trained their whole lives and spent thousands on?

I like dressage. I want the best horse and rider to win. My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere. It's not a trail class, people!!

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:28 PM
Amen, eclectic horseman. And right on, slc2.

mp
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:30 PM
Oh please, is it about Dressage? Or Parelli? Or what? What is the athletic event here? What have these people trained their whole lives and spent thousands on?

I like dressage. I want the best horse and rider to win. My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere. It's not a trail class, people!!

Very true.

But, ya know ... I bet if Isabell knew how to do a one rein stop, Satchmo would be just fine with that video thingy. :lol:

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:35 PM
I like dressage, too. The word means "training" and "preparation".

Fail to prepare - take your chances in competition.

DownYonder
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:35 PM
I would wager that the screen is also putting out an electrical field that the horses can sense. Not only that, but I wonder if they can hear it buzzing, too. And even riders who are used to competing in venues with jumbotrons are not used to having them at ground level.

Ginger
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:36 PM
If European shows are so much more chaotic than American shows (and I have no idea if that is true), doesn't the fact that Isabel has a problem with the screen say something to you? Says volumes to me... And she is leveling the playing field for everyone by requesting that the screen be turned off. It is not to her advantage if her competitors' horses became more calm as a result. She is trying to produce the best dressage test of which Satchmo is capable. I thought that's the whole point of the Olympics.

Hilary
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:38 PM
I think I'd hate to have a jumbtron anywhere near my horse. However, what I saw on that video was a whole lot of horses ignoring it, and ONE horse having a 2 second "gosh what's that" sort of look. Since they get to practice with it now, it shouldn't be a problem. It's not like they got surprised as they came down the centerline.


If everyone was freaking? Yes, it's a problem. One horse/rider complaining? Not a problem.

But then, I'm an eventer. We don't mind a little noise and distraction here and there.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:41 PM
If European shows are so much more chaotic than American shows (and I have no idea if that is true), doesn't the fact that Isabel has a problem with the screen say something to you? Says volumes to me...

No, what says volumes to me is that none of the other horses seemed to have had as much problem with it as hers did, and that her fellow competitors interviewed don't seem to be backing her up.

HOWEVER: That said, if indeed as reported in the article the thing is flickering on and off and would be on for some rides and not others, then by all means turn it off. I'd back her on that.

Eclectic Horseman
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:44 PM
I like dressage, too. The word means "training" and "preparation".

Fail to prepare - take your chances in competition.

Training and Preparation for the athletic competition at hand. In this case, dressage, not every conceivable environmental or atmospheric condition.

Perhaps they should be hiring helicopters or hot air balloons to land next to the arena at home...just in case? Or exactly what kind of preparation is it that you are recommending for the sport of dressage?

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:44 PM
I think I'd hate to have a jumbtron anywhere near my horse.

See, now this whole thing has me dying to try it!! Anybody got one I can borrow?? :lol:

I do think that the only winning psychological attitude to go in there with would be to breathe deep, grin broadly and say to your horse "Whoa, dude, let's go do a pas-de-deux with that Giant Horsie over there! Won't that be fun? Kewwwwwwwwl!" :lol:

AM
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:46 PM
War Admiral,

Were you there in Hong Kong for the test event to see that the jumbotron was in place? I just looked at Brian O'Connor's pictures from the test event in 2007 and I can't see the jumbotron. There is the usual sized score board that I've seen at all the WEG's outside the ring.

At the Atlanta Olympics there was a spherical camera about the size of a basketball suspended on a wire above the ring. It was not allowed to move during the rides.

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:47 PM
[B]Or exactly what kind of preparation is it that you are recommending for the sport of dressage?

I advocate Training and Preparation for the athletic competition at hand. Which seemingly includes a Jumbotron (which has been in place since the trial run last year).

magnolia73
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:50 PM
My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere. It's not a trail class, people!!

There is a wide range between bombproof and spazzing out enough to flip over. I imagine most of the horses will settle in with a few schoolings. My idea of an athletic horse is one with a sound enough mind not to be a hazard to itself when scared. Do I think dressage should be some fat QH plodding around? No. But it also should not be horses so sensitive that they can not handle exposure to new things. There is a balance between brillance and rideability. You can have a brilliant horse that can handle a scary moment without melting down in a self destructive manner. I would think that is to be encouraged.

As much as you'd hate to see the Olympics turned into fat parelli horses moseying about (I'd hate that too), I'd hate to see it turned into a controlled production that allows people to ride horses so unstable (but spectacular) that they lack self preservation.

I guess she is leveling the playing field- but I assume her horse is one of the volatile brilliant types. So you are taking a situation that gives some benefit to the types that absorb distraction better and "leveling" it to benefit the horse that is more brilliant, but less- ummm- submissive? Rideable?

MelantheLLC
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:51 PM
I think they should turn it off, myself.

That said, this thread reminded me of this video of a piaffe by the highest scoring Olympic dressage horse ever, Absent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0_AS_YBFks).

Watch the last few seconds. :eek:

ETA: I don't think Satchmo is considered particularly volatile among the top horses.

fiona
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:56 PM
So what's Isabell playing at here? Did the rest of her team prepare at home with big screen teevees and she thought she was too epic to NEED to, and is now finding out the hard way? Or do you think she's playing a psychological game here with her fellow competitors?

Are you for real? Do you know anything about horses at all? Are you joking - i can't tell. Do you know any Olympians? Have you ever been involved in the training?

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:56 PM
I think they should turn it off, myself.

That said, this thread reminded me of this video of a piaffe by the highest scoring Olympic dressage horse ever, Absent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0_AS_YBFks).

Watch the last few seconds. :eek:

Yepyepyep. To me, THAT is dressage.

What a gorgeous horse, BTW! Heard of him but never seen him before. I never think to look for stuff like this on YouTube. Thanks for the link!

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:58 PM
"On her website, Anky van Grunsven wrote that Salinero was also looking with strange interest at the screen, but she has had no problems steering him past it. "

Could he really see it or was his head on his chest?;)

petitefilly
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:01 PM
:) what does this really tell you?

The seats must be far away from the ring! :):):) You need a screen this big to let the audience see the action? Poor seats!

I do agree all the animals at this level should be able to deal with the screen. Have you seen the stands at Aachen? If you can work with the live crowd there, you can work with a flat screen that flickers at you! :)

freestyle2music
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:05 PM
Maybeeee all countries should appoint some Friesian horses in their team.:yes:

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:07 PM
"On her website, Anky van Grunsven wrote that Salinero was also looking with strange interest at the screen, but she has had no problems steering him past it. "

Could he really see it or was his head on his chest?;)

Haha, now that made me lol!!! :D

freestyle2music
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:12 PM
Haha, now that made me lol!!! :D

Can you please stop quoting remarks from Ridgeback, because everytime I read this "small black moustache" comments I have to puke and buy a new keyboard.

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:15 PM
Theo doesn't like anyone raining on his Anky parade:) LOL Theo thinks it's ok to spread lies on this board and when called out on it he gets all upset and blocks people...I'm happy he does because the truth can get out and we don't have to listen to his complaining. Is the small black moustache suppose to mean something? If anyone gets his humor please fill me in...LOL Oh and war admiral you better listen to him he does run this board..Oh yea how many times has he been kicked off this board?

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:17 PM
Oh, c'mon Theo, I loff you to death, but do admit, it *was* funny! :D

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:20 PM
Oh, c'mon Theo, I loff you to death, but do admit, it *was* funny! :D

Hey not only funny but accurate..:D

Eclectic Horseman
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:22 PM
Perhaps Isabel could take a lesson..... After all it worked for Nicole before Anky. ;)

Kenike
Aug. 6, 2008, 02:45 PM
I think the black moustache was a reference to Hitler....at least that's how I understood it...

Frankly, I can see how it could be distracting, but if he's having THAT big of a heart attack over it, how's he going to react when there is a noisy crowd and possibly trash blowing around? I have to agree with WA on this.

And trust me, the jumpers get distracted by outside stuff, as well...sometimes to the point that they won't even move forward any longer. But it's expected that there will be extremely scary and very boisterous things outside the ring. Not to mention the already mentioned occasional dog breaking free from its handler and chasing the horse through the ring. Therefore, the horses are maybe a little better prepared to handle situations such as this giant screen that could be higher up?

ridgeback
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:05 PM
I think the black moustache was a reference to Hitler....at least that's how I understood it...



Hmmm ok, I'm an American woman that lives in the heart of the U.S. I guess there's a resemblance to Hitler..:lol::lol: dutch-apartheid

lesson junkie
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:09 PM
One of my best friends was asked at a clinic what her horse's "job" was. Her answer-"To go from leg to hand with a smile on his face." She is a dressage rider, and a good one.

This discussion is interesting. When you train, do you want all distraction eliminated, or do you tolerate loose dogs, children on the swingset and playing basketball?

I know a great magic cowboy if she can't get the horse over the jumbotron in time for her rides.:lol:

War Admiral
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:33 PM
When you train, do you want all distraction eliminated, or do you tolerate loose dogs, children on the swingset and playing basketball?


Depends. If I'm teaching a new concept to a horse where he is going to have to stretch his brain a bit, then I'd rather do that in a calm, quiet atmosphere where it is easier for him to focus on me.

OTOH if it's a schooling/consolidation session more than a training session - i.e., we're just working to improve/perfect something the horse already knows well - then I think it's part of my job as the rider/trainer to learn to assist/encourage each horse *through* its "interesting moments". :D

3dazey
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:35 PM
From what very little second-hand information I have about the two horses, I'm really surprised that Salinero is dealing with the screen okay and Isabel's horse is not.

We truly don't know alot about the way a horse would perceive such a thing visually. I know when the screens are higher they tend to ignore them completely. I can only imagine how it appears to them at ground level. I agree the playing field should be level with no special favors but it really has to be safe, for horse & rider.

Mardi
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:44 PM
But remove it?? Are we not being just a *bit* extreme? Honestly, coming from 2 different disciplines (jumpers; ASBs) where large screens for the audience are bog-standard whether we like them or not... Get over it, Isabell, sorry.

um, these dressage riders have too much invested in this competition to just "get over it". Unlike ASB's and jumpers, the dressage horses need to be totally mentally focused during the test to compete at their best. That's the nature of the sport.

I understand that American Saddlebreds are purposely stimulated in order to be shown at their best advantage (aren't fire exstinguishers the norm ?), but jumpers I may have to disagree...only because the wanna-be jumper BNT at our barn recently told a QH riding western rider not to ride on a small trail by the grand prix field, as the jumpers are not used to seeing a horse there, and well you know, who knows what could happen. (good grief)

Anyway, go get 'em Isabell.

Mardi
Aug. 6, 2008, 03:59 PM
. If I were to travel to Hong Kong & get stuck in the cheap seats, I know I would love to have a close-up of Isabell's (and everyone else's) application of the aids during the tests...
.

Then bring binoculars.

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:03 PM
Was Satchmo the horse that had the eye problems (and surgery) some time ago?

ThreeFigs
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:05 PM
3dazey said: "I agree the playing field should be level with no special favors but it really has to be safe, for horse & rider."

Yes, safety first.

Save the jumbotron for rock concerts and hockey games. Yes, accidents will happen in the best of circumstances, but why borrow trouble with a poorly placed giant screen TV and flashing animation?

Anyway, it sounds like they will shut the jumbotron off -- thank God! Problem solved!

Kenike
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:09 PM
I know a great magic cowboy if she can't get the horse over the jumbotron in time for her rides.:lol:

:lol: you actually made me guffaw out loud! :lol:

Ginger
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:11 PM
(I am probably going to regret this, but here goes...)

3dazey, take a look at this photo and tell me which horse looks like it has better freedom to express its emotion.

http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Detail.aspx?axd=DetailPaging.Search|1&axs=0|82155994%2c82156001%2c82155952%2c82155976%2c 82158040%2c82158217%2c82156011%2c82156029|0&id=82156029

fiona
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:11 PM
Equibrit - yes.

Kenike
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:15 PM
Unlike ASB's and jumpers, the dressage horses need to be totally mentally focused during the test to compete at their best. That's the nature of the sport.

How is that not also the the same for jumpers? Have you ever ridden a jumper who isn't totally mentally focused during their class?? Rails drop all over the place, distances aren't there, refusals happen, horses and riders even fall & get very hurt. So that's not exactly a good comparison, either (can't speak for ASB's, I've only ridden both hunter and jumper rings and have some dressage training from back in my eq days [Sally O])

As for the trainer at your barn? They're either smoking crack, or they just wanted to be a snarky bytch toward the QH person.

Kenike
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:16 PM
Ginger, the photo and/or link didn't come through.

If Satchmo has eye problems, then I'll give him a pass. But the playing field SHOULD be level. No special treatment.

(can I post any more in such a short amount of time? :lol:)

Equibrit
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:22 PM
If I'm remembering correctly she had major problems with the horse being a bit of a hooly until he had eye surgery. I can understand her position if the visual effects disturb his vision.

Lori B
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:27 PM
Say it with me:

An equestrian competition is not a rock concert.
An equestrian competition is not a monster truck rally.
An equestrian competition is not a rodeo stampede.

Omitting the screen animations for all competitors is fair to all and virtually costless to the venue.

Werth isn't asking for summary executions for people who crinkle their candy wrappers. She's saying that a large animated video screen nearly at horse eye level is a problem. Horses aren't exactly great at taking in brand new sensory inputs while trying to do other work. She's not a wimp or an idiot or a prima donna for finding this to be too much.

Mozart
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:30 PM
How is that not also the the same for jumpers? Have you ever ridden a jumper who isn't totally mentally focused during their class?? Rails drop all over the place, distances aren't there, refusals happen, horses and riders even fall & get very hurt. So that's not exactly a good comparison, either (can't speak for ASB's, I've only ridden both hunter and jumper rings and have some dressage training from back in my eq days [Sally O])

As for the trainer at your barn? They're either smoking crack, or they just wanted to be a snarky bytch toward the QH person.

Which is why it shouldn't be there for the jumpers either.

Can you imagine if it is off and then suddenly comes on as a horse is jumping towards it down a line? They would be lucky if the horse ONLY dropped a few rails.

Ginger
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:40 PM
Never mind, Lori B is stating pretty eloquently what I'm thinking. :)

Kenike
Aug. 6, 2008, 04:58 PM
Agree completely, Mozart. I'm just basically agreeing that it should all inclusive in not having it on, or all inclusive in having it on all the time. (personally, I think off is fine)

asterix
Aug. 6, 2008, 05:15 PM
I'd be more impressed with their focus on "safety" if they all wore helmets. :eek:

slc2
Aug. 6, 2008, 05:17 PM
Let's pay War Admiral's way to go over there and ride a couple of the Olympic dressage horses in the ring with the thing on.

InsideLeg2OutsideRein
Aug. 6, 2008, 05:42 PM
According to St. Georg Magazine in Germany this has already been solved. Before even protesting, some official decided that the screen will remain OFF as it only works sporadicallly anyway (due to technical problems with it), and that would lead to unequal conditions for the athletes.


Satchmo übersteht Taifun Kummuri und Videoleinwand-Monster bleibt ausgeschaltet
Hongkong ist eine heikle Mission: Taifun am Morgen, brennende Hotels am Mittag, Vogelgrippe am Nachmittag. Mal sehen, was noch kommt …


Und dennoch, es gibt auch gute Neuigkeiten: Die Pferde, die wegen des Taifuns Kummuri in Amsterdam nicht starten konnten, sind inzwischen in der Luft. Die Pferde, die bereits vor Ort sind, haben das Wetterchen gut überstanden. Auch Satchmo kann aufatmen. Der hatte sich vor Schreck nämlich fast überschlagen, als er auf einer überdimensionalen Videoleinwand sein eigenes Konterfei erblickte. Nach ersten Überlegungen seitens der Reiter, Protest einzulegen, hatte eine höhere Macht anscheinend ein Einsehen. Die Technik ist ziemlich unsicher, daher funktioniert die Videoleinwand nur sporadisch. Weil das zu ungleichen Bedingungen für die Teilnehmer führen würde, bleibt das Gerät ausgeschaltet.


Quelle: www.isabell-werth.de

Cooper
Aug. 6, 2008, 05:58 PM
Isabel is one of the coolest cucumbers I have ever seen compete, and if she says it is too much, I tend to agree with her. I watched her show Satchmo at Aachen in 2006, and let me tell you, that environment is absolutely electric. Even Anky's horse said this is too much, and made an unplanned exit during the awards ceremony.

I don't think anyone can say that it is a training issue, and that Isabel needs to work on her horse's submission. These horses see plenty of the big jumbotron screens, I'll try to attach a pic of the one in Aachen, it was huge, it is just placed with a bit more care.

Let these top riders have the best opportunity to show us their best performance!

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k128/Taylor515/IMG_0151.jpg

Reynard Ridge
Aug. 6, 2008, 05:59 PM
I'd be more impressed with their focus on "safety" if they all wore helmets. :eek:

:lol::lol: That was funny.

dogchushu
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:05 PM
It does look like the screen is placed in a crappy spot. It should be higher and out of the sight line. I can see being upset at such a stupid design decision, but I wasn't sure it merited a protest.

However, if the thing is unreliable then it definitely should be turned off (as it seems it will be). It had better be nearly foolproof if they want to use it. Not only would it be unfair for some to have it on and other off, it would be horrible if you started your test with the screen on, it flickers off, then comes on again, then flickers off. That would be very bad.

Mardi
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:38 PM
As for the trainer at your barn? They're either smoking crack, or they just wanted to be a snarky bytch toward the QH person.

LOL ! I vote for the second option.

Carol Ames
Aug. 6, 2008, 08:46 PM
sounds as if, there are other problems as well,lin the hotels, and closing/locking of the stables? Will someone please tell me, whose idea it was to keep the games in China,when the required quarantine :no:area, , was not ready in Bejing? It would be nice to be able to say, ah,they'll make it right:yes:, but, I am not so :no:certain; this culture has no history:sadsmile: of hosting international horse sports, so, who, let his decision go, IOC, or FEI? and, where were our delegates?:confused:

SLW
Aug. 6, 2008, 10:35 PM
I'd be more impressed with their focus on "safety" if they all wore helmets. :eek:

Amen. That's the first thing I noticed about the riders perched on the top of tall horses in an arena where the RIDERS were already concerned about the screen.

FTR, a friends daughter just competed out at NARYC in dressage. She said during one of her daughters test times, the reiners were competeing nearby w/ the fans whooping and hollaring on their favorite from the stands. Her daughters horse was like "huh, what's going on over there?" and so forth. By Sunday night she said their WB was proofed to death on all things "beyond a dressage show" and acting like a good broke roping horse and they were damn proud. :)

horsegirl888
Aug. 6, 2008, 10:47 PM
Oh please, is it about Dressage? Or Parelli? Or what? What is the athletic event here? What have these people trained their whole lives and spent thousands on?

I like dressage. I want the best horse and rider to win. My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere. It's not a trail class, people!!
Thank you. I agree.

Mardi
Aug. 7, 2008, 12:59 AM
To those who think dressage people and their horses are wimps, it's not that. In Europe many dressage shows are held with jumper classes in the next ring over. We know that the best dressage horses, and best jumpers, all have an innate sense of bravery.

The issue with the big video screen is a valid one. It doesn't belong where it is. It's a horse show first, and the competitors are the #1 priority. Not the audience.

FancyFree
Aug. 7, 2008, 02:36 AM
I like dressage. I want the best horse and rider to win. My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere. It's not a trail class, people!!

That is exactly it for me. I want to see the best dressage horse. Not the best dressage horse that can deal with a Jumbotron. I just feel that that is above and beyond what we should expect from our dressage Olympic team. I want to see dressage, not the most bombproof horse.

freestyle2music
Aug. 7, 2008, 07:43 AM
However, removing the video boards doesn't give the crowd the so much beloved "scores per movement", "slowmotions", "close-ups" etc anymore.

Theo

slc2
Aug. 7, 2008, 08:37 AM
If they're that interested in that they can purchase a video after the games for armchair quarterback analysis.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 7, 2008, 01:43 PM
"dressage is not professional wrestling"

I dunno, slc, sometimes on my mare it seems like it....

That header made me LOL!

Yup, I'd loooove to see WA ride one of those horses in front of the Jumbotron.

seabreeze
Aug. 7, 2008, 07:34 PM
I'd be more impressed with their focus on "safety" if they all wore helmets. :eek:

I'll third that...(or fourth it, or whatever the count is) :yes:

freestyle2music
Aug. 8, 2008, 07:49 AM
If they're that interested in that they can purchase a video after the games for armchair quarterback analysis.

The last message from HongKong : It seems that the videowalls will stay and will be kept alive.

Theo

half seat
Aug. 8, 2008, 08:13 AM
The last message from HongKong : It seems that the videowalls will stay and will be kept alive.

Theo

Curious, where did you see that?

Ajierene
Aug. 8, 2008, 09:18 AM
I agree that only if the jumbotron is not reliable should it be turned off.

Personally, if a horse is at that level, and given time to get used to the jumbotron - I don't see any reason not to leave it up. If your dressage horse is not submissive to you and thus spooks, then maybe he is not ready for that level.

My horse could very well have a heart attack at it - or not, she tends to be spookier at home. If she did spook, she would be expected to work through it because she should be paying attention to me, not the jumbotron.

To me, this is what dressage is, this is what a well trained horse is. While there may be some spook - that video of Absent was a great example of what I view a well trained dressage horse to be.

As far as not being sympathetic to the equestrian audience - have you noticed the attendance at the last Game? Seats were maybe half full. I have heard rumors that they are thinking of pulling the Equestrian sports from the games due to lack of interest on the spectator side. If having a jumbotron where people can actually see what is going on sparks interest in equestrian sports from a wider audience, then I am all for it.

Besides - I am remembering this from another thread - wasn't there a great horse that had a meltdown at Athens due to some statues stationed in the dressage area? I would expect the horse to be submissive and not spooky - or not spooky enough to be dangerous, but if it isn't your day, it isn't your day - whether that be at a schooling show or the Olympics.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:15 AM
Why not add a line of cheerleaders along the edge of the arena and encourage the crowd to do the wave during tests?

What BS!

What is this crap about "not ready for that level"? Who are you kidding? Most of these horses have showed at very active, noisy venues like Aachen. They've been exposed to LOTS of strange stimuli -- including overseas flights and all that that entails.

If they have that Jumbotron running during the showjumping and any of the lines face that 'tron, I'd expect some great wrecks. Demolition derby, anyone?

The people who opted NOT to go to the Olympics may be very happy with their decision now. Horse and rider safety is obviously not at the top of the priority list.

magnolia73
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:28 AM
Horse and rider safety is obviously not at the top of the priority list.


If it was, dressage riders would wear approved helmets. Look- from the footage, it looked like most of the horses were fine. Perhaps a few will melt down during the schoolings, but I bet the riders work things out. It may cause a tense spot in some tests or a few rails in showjumping, but it is not the first time outside distractions have impacted results. If someone gets bucked off or their horse rears up do to the screen during the test, I'd be pretty suprised.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:42 AM
You may be right. Who knows? Just happy it's not my problem with my horse. Jumbotrons are not a part of the landscape at our local shows.

akor
Aug. 8, 2008, 11:48 AM
Typically, I'm one to whine about the obsessive, whiny DQs. So, my first reaction is shut up and deal with it, you are a pro. The WC in Vegas irritated me, we all had to hold our breaths at times just in case some itsy bitsy noise bothered GP pookie.

Then, though, I read some of the replies here and it changed my mind.

This is NOT an ASB show. These are not ASBs. They are not being asked to trot around the rail in one of 5 or so gaits. There are significant portions of the test where the dressage horses are asked to be relaxed. And, while they may not have to halt to win gold (Ok, I admit, I can't help it, I still can't believe what Anky got by with at WC....), they have to walk in some "normal" fashion.

I have watch some high level ASB shows. Mostly on video, yes, but in person too. They are not comparable to dressage, IMO. There's a bit of a melee (and yes, this was at Kentucky) atmosphere that for whatever reason, like it or not, we have decided is not proper for a dressage venue. It does not make the ASB show improper, but it's not a dressage venue.

If just ONE horse had an issue, well then, Ok, chalk it up to bad luck. But, if there are even 10% bothered, I say to work with the riders and coaches on it. Just be fair to all, if Isabell gets a still picture of alfalfa, then so does rider x.

jilltx
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:05 PM
I'd be more impressed with their focus on "safety" if they all wore helmets. :eek:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Now that is funny.

huntrpaint
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:32 PM
Obedience hmmm I don't think they are the same..I don't want to make this a saddlebred thing but they want those horses on the edge of exploding and I've seen plenty of it while at the red mile. I've seen horses spook, cut corners, can't stand in line and still win...lets just say it's different..Lets be clear they don't have a giant screen on the ground at red mile it's up in the air where the horses don't even notice it.
As an example of the difference: I showed a westie for a friend one time. His nickname was killer and he literally attacked the other male in the ring. I strung him up and he bit me on my leg while in a rage. He would walk forward because he was so intent on getting the dog behind him. This was a big show and I was supposed to lose so that my friend could finally finish her CH on her bitch. (the bitches didn't have any majors in CO at that time so she was having a hard time getting that last major, had to go BOB)
Anyway, with what I would have considered a horrendous performance and been excused from either the labrador or akita ring, it actually went in Killer's favor. He won Best of Breed and Group 1 because he showed the terrier tempermant so desireable in the breed.
I was mortified by his behavior and the judge loved it.
I see the same differences between saddlebreds and dressage horses. The dressage horses need to act totally calm and submissive like a labrador to win. The saddlebred has to be on the edge of explosion and can even still place with explosions.
It's apples and oranges between showing dressage and saddlebreds.

Ja Da Dee
Aug. 8, 2008, 12:57 PM
... Personally, if a horse is at that level, and given time to get used to the jumbotron - I don't see any reason not to leave it up. If your dressage horse is not submissive to you and thus spooks, then maybe he is not ready for that level.

...
As far as not being sympathetic to the equestrian audience - have you noticed the attendance at the last Game? Seats were maybe half full. I have heard rumors that they are thinking of pulling the Equestrian sports from the games due to lack of interest on the spectator side. If having a jumbotron where people can actually see what is going on sparks interest in equestrian sports from a wider audience, then I am all for it.

Besides - I am remembering this from another thread - wasn't there a great horse that had a meltdown at Athens due to some statues stationed in the dressage area? I would expect the horse to be submissive and not spooky - or not spooky enough to be dangerous, but if it isn't your day, it isn't your day - whether that be at a schooling show or the Olympics.

I think that a horse had an issue with flags in Athens, from what I recall, people reported that they were really loud and distracting that particular day.

Someone help me, I remember reading that XC day at Sydney was the most attended event outside of the opening and closing of the games? Anyone else remember that? Of course, this year attendence should be down because the majority of the athletes and specators are very far away. I dont' believe they were looking at pulling EQ events because of lack of viewers, but because of the land it takes to support the events. This is one reason the FEI changed to the short format for eventing.

I read that booking the main arenas for schooling is a PIA, something like 15 minute allotments based on country? It doesn't sound like "ample time" to school your horse to me.

You <general You, not any specific you> can't compare Saddle Seat Show Horses and Dressage. Look at the directives for ASB's and then look at the directives for Dressage in the USEF rulebook. ASB's are scored completely differently, and the "Pop/look" is part of it. You can't compare the two.

For those that say "just suck it up", I do hope that someday, you are in a situation that you have worked hard over several years to be in and spent a fortune on, have something really off the wall happen to ruin your experience. It seems that some people can't show any empathy, so hopefully someday they have experience to look back on and say ... I wish they were setting this event up for success instead of setting it up for failure. I know a lot of people have spent money to help send the US riders to Hong Kong, it costs thousands. I personally would like to see all the riders have every opportunity to have a good rides. I certainly hope that the best of the best rides wins, and not the best of the worst. Everyone giving their all instead of holding back. That's what I want to see in the Olympics.

Beezer
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:00 PM
As someone else so rightly said, if there are only a couple horses -- and I do not care whose they are, they could be U.S., German, Martian or what-have-you beasties, or what discipline they're in -- that cannot deal with the horse-eating video screen and pretty much all the others can ... well, too bad, it's sad, sucks to be you.

Of course, I'm a H/J person who once had to deal with a pile-driver and other heavy construction equipment (not to mention the nighttime dynamiting :eek: ) literally working at the end of my rings throughout what was a ginormous horse show to me and everyone else there, so -- shrug. If an ancient, bad-kneed, overweight ammy on an OTTB can learn to deal with THAT (and trust me here, there were many, many horses that couldn't, and their riders and trainers sucked it up and got on with the job or they went home), then what's an Olympian's excuse? By the very fact of being there, they and their horses are universes better than I am.

Now, if every horse (or even an overwhelming majority) goes into total, stark-raving meltdown, I can see the point, but it still comes down to what the organizers and rules committees want and say. (Which is why that huge, hundreds-of-horses show I mentioned went on, pile driver and all, despite the hysterics and protests of some riders.)

CA ASB
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:09 PM
Sorry, but the horses DO notice it at the Red Mile as it is only about 12 10 feet off the ground. Some will not even go near that end of the arena. It takes some getting used to as that is the only venue that has one. At the Charlotte Jumper Classic, the Jumbotron was up really high over the arena, so the horses didn't notice it (Jumpers, ASBs or Clydesdales).

And, it's more of a difference between disciplines. Dressage - no applause, supposed to be a quiet environment. Saddle seat - cheer your favorite on. And, with saddle seat, the explosiveness is generally an illusion. The horses should still be under control, but look like they are on the edge. Sometimes, that does spill over and they are out of control :eek:, but, in general, saddle seat horses are pretty unflappable. Parades, marching bands, flags, gunshots; they are pretty much inured to all of that. Just makes them "air up" - but not get silly. As an example, I saw far more silliness (rearing, spinning, bucking) with the jumpers brought back in for the ribbon presentation at the Charlotte Jumper Classic than I have seen in line-ups at ASB shows.

ThreeFigs
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:13 PM
Thank you, Ja Da Dee! Your last paragraph was perfect!

asterix
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:23 PM
From reading the blogs of riders, it sounds as though most horses are not having issues but a few are having real issues (as per Gina Miles' blog, for example).
However. They are in place and schooling in that ring with the screen on for days and days before competing. You can see this on the dutch video posted earlier (where we had the pleasure of watching dressage riders, on their mostly large, mostly super fit horses, try and work through whatever issues while wearing baseball caps. I truly find this ridiculous. Why on EARTH do these people think they can't fall off??)

I would think this would indeed allow even the upset horses to settle.
Apparently the cartoons are causing the most problems -- let's hope they are not running those during actual performances.

ridgeback
Aug. 8, 2008, 02:30 PM
From reading the blogs of riders, it sounds as though most horses are not having issues but a few are having real issues (as per Gina Miles' blog, for example).
However. They are in place and schooling in that ring with the screen on for days and days before competing. You can see this on the dutch video posted earlier (where we had the pleasure of watching dressage riders, on their mostly large, mostly super fit horses, try and work through whatever issues while wearing baseball caps. I truly find this ridiculous. Why on EARTH do these people think they can't fall off??)

I would think this would indeed allow even the upset horses to settle.
Apparently the cartoons are causing the most problems -- let's hope they are not running those during actual performances.

If an adult rider makes the choice not to wear a helmet it's really their business not ours..

KSevnter
Aug. 8, 2008, 03:00 PM
If an adult rider makes the choice not to wear a helmet it's really their business not ours..

No, it isn't our business if they choose to wear a helmet. You do have to admit it is somewhat comical to be complaining loudly about safety and then not wear a helmet when riding in the "unsafe" conditions.

I have been reading the eventers blogs from US, Canada, GB and for the most part they are saying the horses are not having too many issues and those who are are simply doing the best they can to work through it. These guys have to go in there and perform dressage tests too.

Ajierene
Aug. 8, 2008, 04:01 PM
For those that say "just suck it up", I do hope that someday, you are in a situation that you have worked hard over several years to be in and spent a fortune on, have something really off the wall happen to ruin your experience. It seems that some people can't show any empathy, so hopefully someday they have experience to look back on and say ... I wish they were setting this event up for success instead of setting it up for failure. I know a lot of people have spent money to help send the US riders to Hong Kong, it costs thousands. I personally would like to see all the riders have every opportunity to have a good rides. I certainly hope that the best of the best rides wins, and not the best of the worst. Everyone giving their all instead of holding back. That's what I want to see in the Olympics.

Ah, but we do. We scrimp and save our pennies to go to a show - then our horse spooks because the show used rope instead of chains in the dressage arena and the wind picks up and our test goes down the tubes. Some inconsiderate person is standing right in our way in cross country and there goes our cross country score. Screaming kids go running by and my mare breaks away from the trailer after they have been running around screaming in their parents' sights and not being admonished.

It may not be the thousands of dollars for the Olympics but when you are buying the cheap knock offs at the clothes store, forgoing that evening out with your friends and making other sacrifices to go to the show, it is a big deal for you. Complaining about conditions gives you no recourse - sucks to be you that the wind decided to pick up that discarded styrofoam cup at that particular instant. And no, didn't get to school that one. They get to school the jumbotron experience.


I do agree that complaining about safety and not wearing a safety helmet is hypocritical.

3dazey
Aug. 9, 2008, 02:39 PM
The jumbotron has been running all through the eventing dressage. The horses have seen more bothered by a) the camera by "C", b) the judges' booths, and c) the little birds flying and landing on the arena floor. No god-awful hella-spooks, but a couple hard props, high heads and snorting.

I guess Isabell's gonna have to suck it up??? :confused:

Tackpud
Aug. 10, 2008, 05:24 PM
Anyone remember Pony Finals in Asheville when the scoreboard was IN the ring along with TRUCKS! and this was an indoor arena not a huge outdoor. The green ponies were expected to go in there and perform with NO warm-up. And the first jump was a single headed right into that end of the ring. Why would I compare this? Well this was the Olympics for many of those pony riders - the culmination of a year's work and the dream for many of them. They all just went in and dealt with what they were handed. Yes, people complained and the trucks were removed for the rest of the show, but that was just life that weekend and we all dealt with it.

I'd expect any horse of Olympic caliber to be able to work through a distraction, especially with time to school in the ring. I do think that they should only have the current test running (no comics!) to keep it even and fair, but they shouldn't have to move the screen. And if the screen isn't running reliably, keep it off for everyone.

Miss Dior
Aug. 10, 2008, 10:54 PM
Sorry guys but the " chaotic" atmosphere or "electric" atmosphere at Aachen? WTF??? People can hear you pick your nose in the seats during the rides. They are a very respectful and quiet crowd. yes there is the occasional moment, but no more so than here. The jumper ring is another story, it is VERY large and busy around the perimeter. Like the opera, you cannot even go to your seat during a ride at Aachen and a few other big European shows. Hate to burst the bubble but just ain't so. Turn thr fu....king thing off. Was a stupid idea. Bigger is not better. Just what equestrian sports need is another serious injury to an animal to get us booted out completely.

DeLovely
Aug. 11, 2008, 12:49 AM
Count me on the side of people who would like to see it remain off. That was just stupid placement of the screen--there are a lot of other ways they could have placed the monitor and the court to avoid the unfair disturbance. I think that horses should be able to handle crowds, noises, etc. but that is too much. I'd just like to watch a nice test, rather than watching to see whose horse will freak out and whose horse won't--that isn't really the sum of their training.

diKecnadnuS
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:12 PM
Anyone remember Pony Finals in Asheville when the scoreboard was IN the ring along with TRUCKS! and this was an indoor arena not a huge outdoor. The green ponies were expected to go in there and perform with NO warm-up. And the first jump was a single headed right into that end of the ring. Why would I compare this? Well this was the Olympics for many of those pony riders - the culmination of a year's work and the dream for many of them. They all just went in and dealt with what they were handed. Yes, people complained and the trucks were removed for the rest of the show, but that was just life that weekend and we all dealt with it.

That's exactly what I thought of when I heard about this! If little kids on green ponies could deal with bright orange range rovers and the clicking and clacking scoreboard then Olympic riders and their mounts should be able to deal with this. It might be frustrating, but at that level of riding it should not be a problem for horse or rider.

Kenike
Aug. 11, 2008, 01:24 PM
I still think it should remain. I'm fine with it staying off if it isn't working properly, but if it does work, keep it on.

Suck it up. Why? Because there are plenty of us who have spooky horses and have scrimped & saved to do one show a month (big shows, too) and have lost all the time and money involved to get there over a big spook. Oh well, tough luck. It's the one time that the expected spook doesn't happen and you ribbon that makes it all worth it.

And, sorry, but once you get to this level (the FEI/Olympic level), something spooky shouldn't be THIS big of a deal unless it is truly a safety hazard. As the majority of horses don't seem to be batting an eyelash at it, and others take a look then go "oh, okay, no big deal," then I don't think this is a safety hazard. (and I agree it's hypocritical to cry safety when you're set to pop your head like a watermelon because you're not wearing a helmet, adult decision or not)

Equibrit
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:04 PM
This is probably related to the eye problems that Satchmo had. Before he had it seen to he had behavioural issues! That being the case, Isabell would be at a disadvantage to everybody else if the board remains on.

Mozart
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:09 PM
It seems (from reading the various blogs) that most of the horses are over the jumbotron...apparently it was the cartoon horse that really set them off!

Any word on whether Satchmo continues to have issues with it?

sisu27
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:12 PM
This thread is hysterical!

I agree that if the eventers managed to get through their tests than why should the GP horses get anything different? Aren't their horses meant to be the most "submissive" aside from western types?

I watched every single ride thus far and I didn't even notice the stupid thing actually.

I remember a show at a fair as a child where at noon a million steam things (they weren't trains...what the hell were they?) blew their whistles. Well that was exciting! Kids and ponys flying everywhere! I also remember another where they had parachuters (parachutists???) drop in. Same results, very exciting!

I might like it for my guy as he has a MASSIVE ego and so enjoys admiring himself. He also really puffs up when he doesn't recognize his own reflection and boy oh boy does he get "expressive"! Can I request one of those? Might get some 8's and 9's then!

Jasmine
Aug. 12, 2008, 10:23 AM
It sounds like Isabell is the only one seriously campaigning for it to be shut down. If her horse has eye issues, that is NOT the fault of other riders. Why give her special consideration because her horse has an issue? If her horse had an abscess, she wouldn't be given a pass until he healed. Next people will be hollering for lame horses to be given consideration for the injury that made them lame.

Deal with it. If one horse is spookier than the rest, tough cookies. It's the olympics, not a leadline class in an unrated local show.

ridgeback
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:11 AM
It sounds like Isabell is the only one seriously campaigning for it to be shut down. If her horse has eye issues, that is NOT the fault of other riders. Why give her special consideration because her horse has an issue? If her horse had an abscess, she wouldn't be given a pass until he healed. Next people will be hollering for lame horses to be given consideration for the injury that made them lame.

Deal with it. If one horse is spookier than the rest, tough cookies. It's the olympics, not a leadline class in an unrated local show.

Ok this thread was started about a week ago, do we know if she's still campaigning or are we just beating a dead horse?

Ginger
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:15 AM
People beating a very dead horse who have no clue what (or who) they're talking about.

petitefilly
Aug. 12, 2008, 11:50 AM
:):):):)

I am invoking the name "Hitler" to end the thread. Yep, Hitler would have liked the big tron. Eventers seemed to deal just fine, and if you will notice it is far away from the ring in reality. EVERYTHING is far away from the ring. Get real.

ridgeback
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:15 PM
:):):):)

I am invoking the name "Hitler" to end the thread. Yep, Hitler would have liked the big tron. Eventers seemed to deal just fine, and if you will notice it is far away from the ring in reality. EVERYTHING is far away from the ring. Get real.

Dream on dressage is just starting...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Why would you bring up Hitler that is kinda ODD!!!!!

Kenike
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:26 PM
I think Hitler came up in reference to an earlier mention of a black moustache. :lol:

ridgeback
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:32 PM
I think Hitler came up in reference to an earlier mention of a black moustache. :lol:


Hee hee yea I'm hitler because I don't stroke someone's ego...Of course I'm first an American with ZERO German blood but if that makes him feel better y'all can call me hitler...Just in case you think I'm German I give the moderators permission to check my IP and let you know where I live...oh by the way the publisher of the chronicle knows me;) :lol::lol::lol::lol:

GO USA and GO GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

00Jumper
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:48 PM
Isn't Godwin's Law something along the line that as a thread dies, Hitler's name and/or references to Nazis are used? Perhaps petitefilly was trying to help the thread along in its death throes. :lol:

summerhorse
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:50 PM
It's the Olympics. I don't thinks she or anyone else should have to "cowboy up". All of those riders have spent a lifetime getting there; to have it potentially blown by a screen that is unusually big and unusually low down...I don't think it's fair.


Back in the dark ages at the State 4-H show in Tampa they parked big semi refrigerated (well AC I guess) trucks by the showmanship/halter and equitation rings. It ruined many a horse's chances (including mine) because there was no way for us to have trained using a running semi and we had NO chance to get them in the ring before hand. I guess in south/central FL those may be commonplace at big shows but up in the boonies unless your Dad was a DRIVER your horse didn't have run into semis much! So I can see that side. But since all these horses have been to huge shows all over the world they shouldn't be bothered by much.

I do agree raising the screen would help a lot. At least THEY get to practice with it.

magnolia73
Aug. 12, 2008, 01:53 PM
oh by the way the publisher of the chronicle knows me

:) Be sure to give him a ring. Next thing we will need are some baby carrots to hurl at Salierno to even the playing field.

ridgeback
Aug. 12, 2008, 09:58 PM
:) Be sure to give him a ring. Next thing we will need are some baby carrots to hurl at Salierno to even the playing field.

I assume he's at the olympics but maybe I will when he gets home;) Get the carrots ready:cool:

ccoronios
Aug. 13, 2008, 01:52 PM
"if you are comparing those crazy saddlebreds to how a dressage horse is suppose to behave that is not realistic.."

Beg pardon. That sounds a bit uneducated to me. Educated in the world of ASBs, that is. The entire equestrian world would be better off if more were known about each others' disciplines.

ridgeback
Aug. 13, 2008, 01:54 PM
"if you are comparing those crazy saddlebreds to how a dressage horse is suppose to behave that is not realistic.."

Beg pardon. That sounds a bit uneducated to me. Educated in the world of ASBs, that is. The entire equestrian world would be better off if more were known about each others' disciplines.

Nope not uneducated maybe just a difference in opinion..

SlamDunk
Aug. 13, 2008, 03:00 PM
However, removing the video boards doesn't give the crowd the so much beloved "scores per movement", "slowmotions", "close-ups" etc anymore.

Theo

Somehow I don't think that will be a problem considering most of the fans fell asleep;)http://www.monstersandcritics.com/sport/olympics2008/news/article_1422742.php/Olympic_dressage_events_leave_Hong_Kongs_horse_rac ing_fans_yawning

Wellspotted
Aug. 13, 2008, 03:16 PM
The world got along fine for ages without instant replays, slow-motions, close-ups, etc. I'm not a horse, but I was getting a headache last night with all the close-up, freeze-frame, etc., in the diving competition. As the announcer herself said, the judges don't get to see all those, and they still have to judge, from what they see in ordinary time and space.

Just wondering, does Olympic dressage have the constant, headache-provoking, nonstop CHATTER of the other events? I have been pressing my mute button a lot just to watch the competitions without the CONSTANT commentary. All they have to do is give the lane positions, etc., in the swimming for example, then shut up and let us watch. What with all the screen graphics we can tell who's ahead and who's actually won. And it doesn't take a commentator to tell me that a fall from the balance beam is a BIG MISTAKE.

I would not enjoy a dressage test where some commentator was constantly telling me what was happing in the arena.

Watching is learning.

At least now we know a good drug-free treatment for ADD kids. Send them to dressage shows.
Can't get your baby to go to sleep? Stick in a dressage video and let him watch.
They say all Michael Phelps does at the Olympics is eat, swim, sleep. Maybe if he started watching dressage videos to fall asleep too, that would make the sport more popular and they would show it on TV.

Or else make reining an Olympic event.

freestyle2music
Aug. 13, 2008, 04:00 PM
The world got along fine for ages without instant replays, slow-motions, close-ups, etc. I'm not a horse, but I was getting a headache last night with all the close-up, freeze-frame, etc., in the diving competition. As the announcer herself said, the judges don't get to see all those, and they still have to judge, from what they see in ordinary time and space.

Just wondering, does Olympic dressage have the constant, headache-provoking, nonstop CHATTER of the other events? I have been pressing my mute button a lot just to watch the competitions without the CONSTANT commentary. All they have to do is give the lane positions, etc., in the swimming for example, then shut up and let us watch. What with all the screen graphics we can tell who's ahead and who's actually won. And it doesn't take a commentator to tell me that a fall from the balance beam is a BIG MISTAKE.

I would not enjoy a dressage test where some commentator was constantly telling me what was happing in the arena.

Watching is learning.

At least now we know a good drug-free treatment for ADD kids. Send them to dressage shows.
Can't get your baby to go to sleep? Stick in a dressage video and let him watch.
They say all Michael Phelps does at the Olympics is eat, swim, sleep. Maybe if he started watching dressage videos to fall asleep too, that would make the sport more popular and they would show it on TV.

Or else make reining an Olympic event.

Wait untill you have watched the Grand Prix Special.:D

ThreeFigs
Aug. 13, 2008, 04:19 PM
Begging YOUR pardon, ccoronios.

I've seen some ASB's who were sweethearts on the ground and under saddle. I've seen others who were batshit crazy; offering to bite or kick, nasty tempered, running through the bridle no matter what the rider did, and probably in a certain degree of pain.

I've ridden a few of each. A good ASB is a GREAT horse. One that's been ruined from either bad genetics or bad training is a horror.

The demands on horses in the ASB world versus those on horses in the dressage world
are (no pun intended) worlds apart.

malarkey
Aug. 13, 2008, 07:03 PM
My idea of the ideal olympic dressage winner does not have the word "bombproof" in it anywhere.
But it should have the word "submissive" in it somewhere. And, bottom line: spooking = not submissive.

Kenike
Aug. 13, 2008, 07:29 PM
The world got along fine for ages without instant replays, slow-motions, close-ups, etc. I'm not a horse, but I was getting a headache last night with all the close-up, freeze-frame, etc., in the diving competition. As the announcer herself said, the judges don't get to see all those, and they still have to judge, from what they see in ordinary time and space.

Or else make reining an Olympic event.

In gymnastics they DO get to watch the replays now. It's really stupid.

And reining IS an Olympic event, as an exhibition sport right now, but in the works as a full event. (unless you meant past exhibition)

magnolia73
Aug. 14, 2008, 10:54 AM
Wow- don't think the screen hurt her in the least.

ccoronios
Aug. 14, 2008, 04:29 PM
Begging YOUR pardon, ccoronios.

I've seen some ASB's who were sweethearts on the ground and under saddle. I've seen others who were batshit crazy; offering to bite or kick, nasty tempered, running through the bridle no matter what the rider did, and probably in a certain degree of pain.

I've ridden a few of each. A good ASB is a GREAT horse. One that's been ruined from either bad genetics or bad training is a horror.

The demands on horses in the ASB world versus those on horses in the dressage world
are (no pun intended) worlds apart.

But haven't we all seen the same in other worlds? I've seen VERY unhappy dressage horses - and jumpers - and hunters - and western horses. The post I quoted sounded to me as though the poster lumped all ASBs in the "batshit" category, whereas all dressage horses were perfectly fine until something upset their little applecarts. (said somewhat tongue-in-cheek)

I have ridden, shown & trained in several disciplines; I now video & photograph most of them - and some others I'd never known existed. I find I can learn from each - and have a difficult time with folks who are so 'inner-directed' that they can't see ANY good in anything but their own...some of which isn't so good either.

Beezer
Aug. 14, 2008, 05:44 PM
Wow- don't think the screen hurt her in the least.

Zactly what I was thinking. :p

ridgeback
Aug. 14, 2008, 06:08 PM
Zactly what I was thinking. :p

It's my understanding it wasn't on, can anyone confirm.

Renn/aissance
Aug. 14, 2008, 09:41 PM
Screen or no screen, that was a hell of a ride!