Training 3-day---Thoughts

[denny]

Last Thursday I was the Phase A starter for the GMHA training level 3-day, so I got to see all 45 riders, 28 of whom were young riders.

Some random thoughts----

Already, in just 3-4 years, the 3-day is a fading "art form." Several of the kid`s trainers made that same comment, that the riders had to learn so many new things, how to follow roads and tracks, how to pace r and t, how to walk steeplechase, how to gallop at speed on steeplechase, how to use their watches, how to recover on Phase C, what to do in the vet box at the 10 minute hold before D, how to trot up for the vets, how to treat horses after D, and back at the barn, and on and on, and on------

HORSEMANSHIP----That`s what the 3-day teaches, far more than any horse trials, even upper level horse trials. And it`s horsemanship that`s the fading art form as our sport starts its slide toward the joys of Hunterland.

So we collectively NEED TO SAVE THE 3-DAY.

If only at the training level, where it`s both doable and affordable.

It should be a primary USEA goal to make certain that this critical piece of eventing, the absolute core, bedrock foundation of the sport, the piece that differentiates eventing from the pseudo "sports", isn`t allowed to fade away entirely.

WHICH IT WILL if we let it.

So how can we get people to understand this urgency?

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

Just musing out loud, but I wonder if there would be any chance of a rule requiring a RIDER have completed 2 T3D's or one * to move to intermediate, and/or 1 T3D to move to Prelim??

I certainly can't think of a rider I know who has done a half* who is anything but enthusiastic about it - but of course it's a self selected pretty motivated group of participants at this point - and not a huge group, either...

[StrawberryFields]

i've had the same problem actually. My friend who is qualified to go to the waredaca three day was surprised when she found out it was a long format! she didn't even know! :eek::no:

I think the USEA WILL preserve the training three day. With the way things have been going recently it would look bad for them to get rid of the EDUCATIONAL 3day. My opinion is that if they weren't prepared to come and learn then don't complain about it. They knew what they were getting into! Other ppl shouldn't have to suffer because the trainers and students that don't approve didn't bother to stay home. JMO.:)

[Eventingjunkie]

i've had the same problem actually. My friend who is qualified to go to the waredaca three day was surprised when she found out it was a long format! she didn't even know! :eek::no:

I think the USEA WILL preserve the training three day. With the way things have been going recently it would look bad for them to get rid of the EDUCATIONAL 3day. My opinion is that if they weren't prepared to come and learn then don't complain about it. They knew what they were getting into! Other ppl shouldn't have to suffer because the trainers and students that don't approve didn't bother to stay home. JMO.:)

I don't think anyone is complaining about it...just trying to figure out what to do to ensure it continues. Too bad these half stars are so few and so far away from each other, a series with a trophy and recognition involved would be ideal. But how do we make it worth the organizer's while to make the effort to put the half stars together?

[RiverBendPol]

Denny.......
As you know, I agree with you 100%. It was fun to see you last week!!

I was at GMHA too, as my daughter was riding. She had done a CCI* years ago with another horse, GMHA last week was the first time at a long format for her current beast.

I have to tell you, we were shocked and saddened by the total lack of understanding coming from the competitors. They had no clue as to how the whole deal worked. There was grousing in the barn from YRs who had "...already BEEEEN to 3 meetings, why do we have to go to anOther one???" Perhaps because the officials know you don't know a bloody thing about what you're doing here and want to keep you safe?? Duh. People were asking us amazing questions ("Do we need to put more shavings in the stall after XC day? Is that what people do at a 3-day?") One person was planning to compete her T3D horse at Prelim this coming weekend. How about the one who went completely the wrong way on R&T and tried to gallop and lie her way out of it. Sheesh.

The long format 3-day event is ALL about horsemanship. The hours spent in the saddle preparing the horses gives the riders insight as to what makes their horse tick. How does he cope with exercise more intense than 30 minutes in the dressage ring? How much CAN he do and how can I help him recover? What is physically AND MENTALLY going on with him? Many riders had no idea what to take to the 10 minute box. Granted they were there to learn but what they didn't know was really pretty shocking. Oh, woe, the list of benefits to horse and rider and to eventing in general is immeasurable and endless.

I still believe the answer to the carnage at the upper levels is to incorporate full format 3-days into ALL divisions, as a REQUIREMENT to moving up. Horse and rider together to complete a full format 3-day at their current level before qualifying for the next level. We already have T3Ds popping up around the country, Morven and Virginia are still running (*)s, Radnor could reinstate the (**) Bromont could surely bring back the (*) and (**), just to name a few local ones. I believe it can but more importantly, SHOULD and NEEDS to be done. So, Denny, you're the brains of this operation, how do we get it done? You know I'll help if I can.

[asterix]

A friend of mine was at the GMHA T3d with a student -- she (my friend) had previously run the Waredaca t3d. She was pretty surprised by the difference in preparation and the difference in education between the two. At Waredaca we have TONS of prep seminars -- before xc day dawns you have learned how to walk R&T, how to gallop steeplechase, how to do aftercare, how to run your watch, and how to deal with the vet box. EVERYONE participates in these seminars. No one complains-- it is seen as part of the whole point of doing the T3d.

In addition, the year I did it, Janet's sister Gillian ran a pre-clinic to review all this stuff -- you brought your horse and practiced A, B (in mini form), and C, along WITH your vet box crew. It was amazing. My "crew" (bambam) took copious notes, which I later turned into a "what you need to know" writeup (http://www.waredaca.com/competitions/2006/t3daytips.shtml) we posted on the Waredaca website.

As we push to get more of these on the calendar, I think it is imperative that we retain the strong "educational" aspect of this as it is run at Waredaca. I think a pre-clinic OR participation at all the seminars should be a requirement of each entrant (of course, as an anal adult ammie, I did both.).

[canterlope]

Too bad these half stars are so few and so far away from each other, a series with a trophy and recognition involved would be ideal. Ummm.. we already have this. Go to http://www.useventing.com/competitions.php?section=training3day

[LLDM]

Seriously. I would love to see a Novice 3 Day Event. If nothing else, you expose a whole lot more people to it - esp. the BN riders who, by virtue of their ride times, rarely get to see anything other than Novice riders & horses go.

Plus - honestly - a T3D is a pretty big thing to bite off for a lot of "regular" riders. Ya know, the kind with jobs and kids who drive 30+ minutes each way to ride 2-3 times a week on the horse they love. Most of these people could mentally wrap their mind around a N3D - but are scared witless by a T3D.

Heck, as a mature (physically, not mentally) adult who gets to live on my farm and did the what was unrec. Training way back when, a T3D seems like a lot to bite off. I got derailed when I blew my ACL in May - so I am really pushed back on my T3D plans. But I could conceivably to a N3D in late spring/summer (2009). I had initially hoped to do a T3D in the Fall 2009, but I'll be lucky to be back enough to get my mare fit for any rec. HT this Fall. I am not even cleared to ride yet. Then I'll have to qualify at T. Looking more and more like 2010 - and will there even be any left by then?

I would hope that if someone can go around very well and safely at Novice, it would not take a huge amount more to safely do a N3D - AND they (meaning me!) could really focus on prep-ing, training and executing a fabulous AB&C!

I think this would be a great place to have as a step-up to Training and a great psychological way to prep for a T3D. Which of course is the same logic for going up to Prelim and then a full 1*.

This could stuff the pipeline. I bet for every person that will do a T3D, you would have 3 or 4 who would take on a N3D. I bet you would get a bunch of Training Level riders willing to step "back" to a N3D - just to get a feel for the whole thing. And wouldn't more (even lower level) entries make it more doable for organizers?

And speaking of, would anyone need to wait for the USEA? Or could organizers just run it ( a Novice 3 Day) unrecognized?

SCFarm

[Firefox]

[QUOTE=denny;3417770]
Already, in just 3-4 years, the 3-day is a fading "art form." Several of the kid`s trainers made that same comment, that the riders had to learn so many new things, how to follow roads and tracks, how to pace r and t, how to walk steeplechase, how to gallop at speed on steeplechase, how to use their watches, how to recover on Phase C, what to do in the vet box at the 10 minute hold before D, how to trot up for the vets, how to treat horses after D, and back at the barn, and on and on, and on------

But isnt this the place that they have to learn at, the whole purpose behind the T3d is to learn, we dont come into this world knowing how to do R&T and pace, I agree that the T3d should be a requirment before going prelim, it has done a great job for me in confidence etc!!

[pegasusmom]

Think we need to make the 1/2* and 1* long formats gateways to other things - we learned SO much at the Virginia CCI*. And everyone told us Andrew's horse would be a different beast on XC after completing a long format. Absolutely true. Confidence level through the roof on a horse that previous would check in at every fence. Base fitness level now there. He skipped around NAJYRC like a D-1 pony club course.

Denny, I understand there is movement from FEI to take over the 1/2* as it redesignates through 5*. In addition, adding a T3D is coming up in conversations here in NC - are you game to help?

We need to keep hammering that the long format isn't about jumping 8 steeplechase fences once a year. The question long format asks is can you produce the horse. That is getting lost quickly.

[denny]

My sense is that neither the USEA, and especially not the USEF makes a big enough deal out of the Training 3-Day initiative to whet the hunger of aspiring riders.

Look at the USEA masthead, online. Gold Cup, Team at Hong Kong, so very much about 1 % of our riders, so little about the core constituency, by comparison.

The USEA Magazine cover----Dutton--Dutton---O`Connor---Dutton---

So no wonder there`s little interest, little fundraising, little "buzz" about doing a 3-day.

There should be an annual list of all Training Level 3-day completers, like USDF does for its 3 types of medallists. T-shirts "I`ve done a REAL 3-DAY-
Have you?

Pictures of kids who won on OUR cover, not just another red coat.

Make it a USEA priority, not some damned afterthought to what`s going on with our mainly out of touch top 50.

[SRF1]

Hi Denny,

Why dont we put together a petition of sorts (not demands) of concerns,
ideas and requests from the lower level rider of sorts (smurfs). I know frugalannie has started a sticky saving some of these good ideas. I know in the past this avenue has worked for other causes. Think of all the names we could generate from this B/B. Just an idea. :)

[Hony]

A 1/4* was done in Ontario last year. From what I understand, it was not well attended.

[Hilary]

Well, I'm trying really hard to get my mare qualified for this next year because I've discovered that having her in front of my leg on XC and really forward is what makes her love it, stop spooking, jump effortlessly - I have no doubt that steeplechase will change her tune about XC - she loves it once she gets in gear.

I was a working student for an upper level rider and got to see how she prepped her horses for the long format and groom for her at Radnor - and it seemed like normal horsemanship. It wasn't special. But I needed to be taught.

We do need to save the 3-day so when those experienced at the long format finally get too old to hobble out to the barn to teach us (we've still got a few years, I'm sure!) people my age and younger will have the experience to pass on.

[imapepper]

A 1/4* was done in Ontario last year. From what I understand, it was not well attended.

I think that attendance might be the biggest problem. People can't afford to run these events unless they are attended well. But at the same time....there needs to be some advertising for these events and there needs to be some preperation events. I would love to get my mare prepared to run a T3D but I am having a hard time just getting her out there.

[gahawkeye]

OK, I'll post this again.... remember the safety summit from June and all the discussions on education replacing experience? Well the T3D is a great educational AND experience vehicle. It was suggested that some rule changes for move up be implemented wherein you get more points for completing T3D or LF*/** rather than just horse trials. Therefore, you have incentive to complete these for more than the 'educational' aspects - the education is a fortunate bi-product.

I believe there were some naysayers that said something like 'but why should we have to motivate people to do the right thing - i.e. enter the LF events to get that experience'. Guess that is just human nature -- if there is a short cut, we'll take it. Competitors are voting with their entries and if they don't have to enter LF they won't. Make it worth the extra effort to do it (because it is a lot MORE work and risk - short term -- we all know the long term rewards). Give points, recognition, prize $$, whatever -- put you have to make it MORE VALUABLE than short format/horse trials -- or it will fade away forever. :-(

[foxhavenfarm]

I still believe the answer to the carnage at the upper levels is to incorporate full format 3-days into ALL divisions, as a REQUIREMENT to moving up. Horse and rider together to complete a full format 3-day at their current level before qualifying for the next level. We already have T3Ds popping up around the country, Morven and Virginia are still running (*)s, Radnor could reinstate the (**) Bromont could surely bring back the (*) and (**), just to name a few local ones. I believe it can but more importantly, SHOULD and NEEDS to be done. So, Denny, you're the brains of this operation, how do we get it done? You know I'll help if I can.

ABSOLUTELY! If the USEA can mandate this doesn't it make sense that everyone competing at USEA competitions would just be BETTER PREPARED for FEI competitions (even if the FEI competitions are short format)? JMHO!:D

[melodiousaphony]

After being part of a "pit crew" at the GMHA T3DE, I'm even more hell bent on participating myself.

What makes me sad is that I don't "just" want to do a T3DE. I want a P3DE someday, and maybe more. And I would LOVE to do one at Novice level, before Training, when I'd be beating myself up more than my horse, learning my lessons before it's actually strenuous for him, and then do a T3DE.
But mainly, I'm dying to do Endurance Day.
I'm psyched to go to meetings, to get to listen to how I can make everything easier for my horse.
If there is anything I could do/say/scream to try to get more 3-days, I will.

[MichelleNH]

I was at GMHA for the T3D with my YR student. I came up the night before endurance day (damn those day jobs). I was amazed how many people did not have a clue what was going on. Not to be negative, but the educational prep part of this 3 day was not that great. People came without anyone to help out in the vet box or assistance area!

I watched steeplechase, with great envy. My student had a grin from ear to ear, start to finish. She is totally hooked and can't wait to do a full format CCI*.

We must save the full format 3 day!

[Gnep]

I agree completly with Denny, the T3D should be headline for the USEA and we need experianced riders that have Long Format experiance support it.
I rode the T3D in Cocconino, it was fun, serious fun and it did my horse good was very educational for that beast.
It was sad that there were only 10 teams.
The 3 young riders that finished at the top were realy well prepared and were a perfect axemple of the skills needed.
They took something out of this T3D that will last.
Everybody who finished got the I did it medal, which was a very nice touch.

I do not have the time to prepare, is the usual excuse, if one can find the time to preparea prelim horse for competition than one can find the time to prepare for a T3D.

The USEA has to make a real effort to promote the T3D and it should be an effort on the same level as the Gold Cup, I think it should be part of the AEC

[Ajierene]

Personally, I think the long format continued would be a great learning tool. The biggest problem I see is time commitment.

More and more people are eventing between jobs and raising kids. Children are eventing around working parents - getting to the barn when they can.

A training three day requirement to move up is a great idea, but a bigger issue may be time to condition for the long format, as well as time to participate in the long format.

The Novice three Day is a great tool as a learning format, but making it mandatory to move up to training may just make more people stay at Novice or quit eventing because they do not have the time/money to go to a show that takes place over three days.

I think it can and should be done, but I think the time commitment needs to be addressed. Personally, between working and trying to ride, plus having to trailer to get anywhere to get out on trails, I do not feel that my horse would be fit enough for a three day and would likely not enter. I could be wrong. This is where outside education is needed - like a pamphlet or website on what kind of fitness level a horse needs and the likelihood of being able to successfully complete a three day.

[CBudFrggy]

There's a small group of us BN-N riders aiming for the T3DE over on Yahoo. We'd love any input you can give us, Denny, Riverbendpol, and others. I think one of our big draws toward attaining this goal is for the complete horsemanship we will have to earn/learn/experience on our way. It's not the destination, it's all about the journey.

There's very little information in Area III about preparing for the T3DE offered at Florida Horse Park twice a year. In fact, the horse park's website fails, IMO, to adequately set forth its requirements for entry, seminar dates and times, etc.

Everytime I search for info on USEA's site there are the same 2 articles--The Three-Day lives on or some such rot, but very LITTLE of educational value.

I agree that the program seems undervalued and underpromoted.

[NMK]

Denny,

I just finished my first three day (training) at South Farm in July. I was so impressed with the format (unmounted clinics, and a mounted steeplechase clinic) and what I gleaned from it that I wrote a letter to Jo at the USEA. She asked to publish it. I also recommended that anyone moving up to P should do one of these half stars if they have never done a full format before. I also recommended that the USEA HELP these organizers with some of the costs involved.

It is educational for the riders, but let's not forget the horses--it is highly eductional for them as well. My horse went up there as a solid T horse and came back as a potential P horse with great confidence.

We had three certified instructors helping us through the phases, some highly qualified technicians, and some folks with wonderful perspective from the "behind the scenes" point of view. South Farm has an owner/organizer that really believes in this format. I am very grateful that I had the opportunity to be part of it as a rider and also as "crew" in past years.

In our group we had about three adults and a dozen YR's. When asked our backgrounds, two adults had "outside" event experience riding racehorses or doing endurance riding. No one had ever foxhunted. This format really does help educate with riding at speed over terrain. The unmounted clinics really help with the preparation and welfare of the horse. It fills a "gap" that I feel is missing from today's riding education.

I would lobby for more of these educational formats, and would highly recommend that they become part of the qualification process for those that have never done a full format. I believe in it so strongly that I did write a letter, and received a response from Jo literally within minutes, so I think they are very supportive.

Nancy

[Fence2Fence]

About a year ago, quite a few motivated COTH members, joined together for the Training level TDE 2010 pact. You can join us here: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/T3DE2010/


If there was a Novice 3DE, I'd be there, no matter how far I had to drive!

I would like to see the USEA include the T3DE as one of its 'glamour' activities, right up there with the Gold Cup. And it's time for the USEA to start putting some different faces on the cover of the newsletter.

[Fence2Fence]

Ok, I know I'm posting again...but... I keep thinking about Jo's quick response to Nancy, requesting to publish it, and Denny's comment about how it should be apart of USEA's emphasis.

Perhaps what the USEA needs is for folks to step up to the plate (they certainly have enough there, it seems), form a committee, and figure out how to get the T3DE promoted. I'm all in for this, anyone else?

[FairWeather]

But isnt this the place that they have to learn at, the whole purpose behind the T3d is to learn, we dont come into this world knowing how to do R&T and pace, I agree that the T3d should be a requirment before going prelim, it has done a great job for me in confidence etc!!

I could very well misunderstand what Denny's concern was, but it seems to me he agrees that it is a good venue to learn (the only venue to learn?) but that 1/2 stars are not all that common--hence the ability to go learn this stuff will fade away if the 1/2 stars are not supported.

[missamandarose]

I would HATE for the T3D to go the way of the dodo...

I attended the Fox Hall Cup several years in a row and LOVED watching the steeplechase, and it really inspired me to get back to riding.

I have had some seriously craptastic riding instruction in my lifetime of on and off lessons and showing. At 29 that all changed; I found a great instructor and a great horse to lease and in the process of relearning to ride, I realized that I missed out on a LOT of horsemanship. I NEED the T3D. I WANT to learn those things... even if I can't get there, my mind set is to learn everything I would need to--and should-- know to complete a T3D. Heck, I have even picked out my jog-up outfit and asked my horse for approval (he nodded). Hopefully the clothes will still fit in 4-5 years when Im ready!

I'm part of the Yahoo group that a couple of other posters mentioned and its a really great network. Helpfull, supportive... and all striving to get to the ultimate goal of a T3D.

[RiverBendPol]

I think a couple of things need to be clarified here re: the T3D at GMHA last week. We had an extraordinary ground jury. The obvious ones, Mark Weissbecker, Bobby Costello, Bobby Stevenson, a fantastic vet, Mike, who's last name has escaped me at the moment (sorry!) and Liza Stanley. This team rocked. They held meetings, walked courses, walked R&T, held a steeplechase practise session, gave private intruction, answered a million questions, taught riders how to use their watches, how to listen to their horses, talked about the olden days of 3-day eventing. They were available to the riders all week. Obviously, one can't win for losing. There were complaints of there being too many meetings and there were complaints that there wasn't enough education. How to balance THAT?!
The folks behind the scenes are also heros. Hours and hours and HOURS of work goes into hosting a 3-day. We owe a thousand thanks to all those who helped make it happen. They are the "Givers"!

Another thing I want to add: We *MUST* keep the FEI away from the T3D. They have no rights and no reason to put their sticky fingers into the pie. For that matter, I think all of these qualifying 3-days of which I dream should be run under USEA authorization. USEF if we have to. OR, create the North American Eventing Association and let us run it. That should be enough.:winkgrin:

[tuppysmom]

Gnep may have hit on a blockbuster of an idea. That is to have a T3D at the AECs. You would have to qualify at a T3D to go, like YRs have to qual to go to NJYRC. That way your AEC T3D would be your second, at least, go at a LF and everyone would have some experience and know what they are doing. It could be a "Big Deal" event for riders.

Also, Rebecca Farm has stated that they will continue to run a CCI* LF even if they only have 1 entry. So there are some organizers who feel strongly about the LF and are willing to keep hosting them. They had a pretty good turn out for the LF this year.

[colliemom]

We do need to save the 3-day so when those experienced at the long format finally get too old to hobble out to the barn to teach us (we've still got a few years, I'm sure!) people my age and younger will have the experience to pass on.

This is the part that really worries me. Since the current crop of upper level riders have so totally drunk the Koolaid of the short format, the pool of educated people in all aspects of the long format will get smaller and smaller over time. So, it's not only how can we preserve the format itself, but how can we preserve and hopefully expand the knowledge base of what it all takes?

I totally agree with the concept of making the Training Three Day required to (at the very least) enter a CCI*, and I would even suggest that they be required to move up to Preliminary level. In order to make that happen, though, there would need to be a lot more of them (which I would also be in favor of!)

[Jazzy Lady]

There is a short cut to the higher levels now. It's called a short format... as long as long format is not required, the younger generation will not go to it. Seriously, I talk to teens that are doing prelim, and some even older and when I mention the long format to them they say "I don't want to do that to my horse. He doens't need the wear and tear on him".... ummmm...??????? These are often the same people who will run their horses almost every weekend in the summer...

Someone please make Fair Hill run their ** as a long format this year. That would be fab.

I did the long format CCI* at Midsouth last year and had the time of my life. I hate that there are none at the ** and higher anymore. If I had a green horse, I would find a T3DE somewhere.

[denny]

Part of why I feel there`s a growing split between the "top 200" and everyone else (My last Between Rounds addressed this) is the huge unwillingness of many of those people to even acknowledge any use whatsoever for ANY level of 3-day.

They sort of roll their eyes when it`s even mentioned, as if to say, "Get a life, Dude, it`s so totally OVER.'

Not all, but many.

So there`s that 900 pound gorilla to fight.

And the other 900 pound gorilla is that most of our leadership---not all, but most----is very interested in those riders, and bends over backwards to promote them.

Until there`s a culture change, it`s going to be a tough struggle, I`m afraid.

[NMK]

Gnep, great idea, that would make me go to the AEC's. The delegate at our
T3DE said there is a study from Waredeca about the success of people who go through the half-star there. Does anyone have it? If I remember correctly the results of people that did a half star and then moved on to P found them to be very successful. There is data to be found to support the T3DE, we just have to compile it.

Nancy

[fooler]

I think a couple of things need to be clarified here re: the
Another thing I want to add: We *MUST* keep the FEI away from the T3D. They have no rights and no reason to put their sticky fingers into the pie. For that matter, I think all of these qualifying 3-days of which I dream should be run under USEA authorization. USEF if we have to. OR, create the North American Eventing Association and let us run it. That should be enough.:winkgrin:

Totally agree - keep the FEI out of the T3D!

I sent a proposal to the "Long Format" committee (can't remember their official title) several years ago suggesting a National 3 Day Championship to be held at KHP. They have the facilities to host and Janie loves the 3Day.
Have qualifications much like AEC, but you have to "complete" at least 1 T3D or 1 P3D to enter. That would encourage folks to compete at the various 1/2* & * LF's to qualify for the National Title.
I considered tying with the AEC's but did not know if the AEC organizers were prepared to take on 2 LF's as well as BN-A. That is alot to ask of an organizing committee.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

NMK - the data bit I read recently was something about the percent of Waredaca 1/2* competitors who went on to move up to P - it was a fairly high percentage, certainly more than the % of regular T riders who move up.

Of course it's a self selected, motivated group, but it seems obvious that doing a 1/2* would help build the skills to bridge the jump from T to P.

One handy thing about the 1/2* I think is while it introduces the concepts of "speed" and "endurance" it really isn't a test of either for most horses who might be thinking of moving up. (And side discussion, RiverBendPol, but I have been wanting to ask around about reasonable spacing between a 1/2* and a P run. Total mounted time endurance day at Waredaca is under 50 minutes, isn't it? And 3ish minutes at 520 gives a lovely taste of steeplechase, but I'm not so sure the total effort demands down time afterwards. Maybe it does, and for some horses I'm sure it does, but frankly I'm not sure it demands the same aftercare as a * or **, does it? I don't generally like run back to back weekends, but it seems like taking a puffed up, 1/2* horse P the next weekend with a lightish week beteen might be great prep... )

[horsecents]

I like the idea of a long format 3 day at the various levels. I attended and helped at the T3D at South Farm and will definitely put it on my things to do list. Participating in a long format would help competitiors decide if they want to make the commitment it takes to move up to the next level. Ajierene mentioned the time commitment that training for a T3D would take but to me a horse/rider competing at P HT would have to be just as fit and have the same skill level to safely and successfully compete. Nowadays, I see too many competitors moving up without developing the necessary skills and fitness just because "the jumps are only a few inches higher".

Definitely keep the FEI out.

[Tuckertoo]

I'm another one of those in the T3DE pact group. Most of us are aiming for 2010 or later, but any help or advice from experienced people is most certainly welcome any time. We have just recently set up a database in our group. It's a table listing if we can offer or need help at future T3DEs, where, when, etc... If anyone would be interested in helping us at our future T3DEs, we would love it if you would come join us and add yourself to the database.


I'm totally in support of the T3DE. It's one of the last things we have to hold onto if we want to have any hope of maintaining/increasing the level of horsemanship we are seeing these days. The LF is vital to us all. I would hate for it to disappear, especially the T3DE since it is soooo educational.

Just a thought, but what if we sort of "re-started" the whole "Save The 3-Day" campaign. From looking back at previous threads, it was 2004 when the petition went around on COTH, the last post was Jan. 3 2005. It's been almost 4 years since. We've noticed the effects losing the 3-Day has had. Hopefully with more people in support of the LF, maybe more people will rally behind "The Cause" and we can get a bigger result? I don't really know what I'm talking about, but it seems that with the 4 years to reflect on how things have drastically changed, it's time to try again. Whaddya think? Am I crazy?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Hmmm....maybe I'm out of touch but I've not heard or seen anything that would indicate that the T3D is at risk.

What is at risk....is a long format CCI*. And that is something I'm far more concerned about.

As to horsemanship skills....I sure hope people are learning about horsemanship skills from sources beyond a competition or T3D......I'm sorry, but I learned horsemanship skills from the moment I first started riding as a kid from various good horseman....from how to muck a stall, to knowing to always run my hand down my horses legs, take their temp at the slightest indication they are not normal....knowing what is normal for my horse....and many other skills for conditioning and taking care of a horse. Since those horsemanship skills are critical regardless of whether you event, show hunters or jumpers, dressage or hell...even just plain pleasure trail ride.

I'm not knocking the T3D or long format as important....but I do think that promoting horsemanship skills must come from more sources than just that. I think the lack of horsemanship skills we are seeing is sad and scary...but I have still seen many other YRs who do have good skills. Many of them learned them through Pony Club and having good horsemen as their mentors....and a T3D or long format event is just where those skills became apparent to outsiders.

It is worth saving...but to me it is the CCI* long format that is really at risk....not the T3D.

[fooler]

Hmmm....maybe I'm out of touch but I've not heard or seen anything that would indicate that the T3D is at risk.

What is at risk....is a long format CCI*. And that is something I'm far more concerned about.

As to horsemanship skills....I sure hope people are learning about horsemanship skills from sources beyond a competition or T3D......I'm sorry, but I learned horsemanship skills from the moment I first started riding as a kid from various good horseman....from how to muck a stall, to knowing to always run my hand down my horses legs, take their temp at the slightest indication they are not normal....knowing what is normal for my horse....and many other skills for conditioning and taking care of a horse. Since those horsemanship skills are critical regardless of whether you event, show hunters or jumpers, dressage or hell...even just plain pleasure trail ride.

I'm not knocking the T3D or long format as important....but I do think that promoting horsemanship skills must come from more sources than just that. I think the lack of horsemanship skills we are seeing is sad and scary...but I have still seen many other YRs who do have good skills. Many of them learned them through Pony Club and having good horsemen as their mentors....and a T3D or long format event is just where those skills became apparent to outsiders.

It is worth saving...but to me it is the CCI* long format that is really at risk....not the T3D.


You were better positioned than most as young person in horses. Personally I did not have benefit of steady mentors or of Pony Club. The only Pony Club was over an hour away & my parents were not that supportive. Agreed there are more Pony Clubs available today in more areas, as in there a local Pony Club in my old home town. However take a look at the next event or horse show - overall people are either not being trained or are not learning or both.
As Denny stated above - Eventing is all about Horsemanship. Trying to find an old rule book as I believe it used to state Eventing is Horsemanship (in so many words). We don't seem to remember that anymore - what with can I school the H20 before presenting as flagged, what are the appropriate XC colors, why can't I use a hackamore in dressage, etc.
Planning and training for a true LF 3day (1/2* or ****) requires more thought, long term vision, eyes/hands on the horse and hours in the saddle. HT's and short CCI's tend to let folks think in the present - so many are running their horses most of the year - without the let down required by the LF.
So we are becoming competitors - not Horsemen. IMO

[fooler]

NMK - the data bit I read recently was something about the percent of Waredaca 1/2* competitors who went on to move up to P - it was a fairly high percentage, certainly more than the % of regular T riders who move up.

Of course it's a self selected, motivated group, but it seems obvious that doing a 1/2* would help build the skills to bridge the jump from T to P.

One handy thing about the 1/2* I think is while it introduces the concepts of "speed" and "endurance" it really isn't a test of either for most horses who might be thinking of moving up. (And side discussion, RiverBendPol, but I have been wanting to ask around about reasonable spacing between a 1/2* and a P run. Total mounted time endurance day at Waredaca is under 50 minutes, isn't it? And 3ish minutes at 520 gives a lovely taste of steeplechase, but I'm not so sure the total effort demands down time afterwards. Maybe it does, and for some horses I'm sure it does, but frankly I'm not sure it demands the same aftercare as a * or **, does it? I don't generally like run back to back weekends, but it seems like taking a puffed up, 1/2* horse P the next weekend with a lightish week beteen might be great prep... )

Just IMO - would depend on the horse. A well conditioned horse, not really stressed by the T3D might be able to do a P the next or the following weekend.
My thought would be about a 2 - 6 wks of light to regular work afterwards, again depending on how the horse handled the competition.
I haven't done a T3D, hopefully next spring. It would be interesting to hear feedback from those who have.

[NMK]

One way to save the CCI* is to promote the T3DE. Once you 've done one, you'll want to fight for the long format at any level. I don't think they are at risk, but they certainly are not plentiful either.

Jeanette, (just IMHO) the level of fitness required is about the same as I would need for P, but part of the education is to provide your horse some down time after a long format excursion. That becomes a personal choice and really depends on how your horse comes back. Mine would have been fine going the weekend after, but I chose to give him some down time. I did not want to push my luck because I really worked on his conditioning (and he did win the most conditioned horse award) and thought he deserved a little vacation.

Nancy

[deltawave]

How about making some effort to have a T3D be part of the AEC? In fact, I'd vote to see the AEC be a "three day" format for ALL LEVELS, but if that's too much "pie in the sky" (and I realize it doesn't work in the plans of many ULRs, etc) why not at Training and below? For those of us to whom the AEC *is* the Olympic games? :)

I learned more about my horse prepping for a T3D and then a CCI* than I'd learned about horses for a very long time. The information is available in books, it is certainly still available from veteran trainers, but mostly I learned it from the horse herself. There is just no substitute for spending those hours in the saddle, feeling legs, fretting about the footing, the horse's attitude, the amount of sweat they produce during a ride, etc. etc. Anyone who doesn't do this is missing out on a HUGE learning experience.

I agree--bring it on at Novice! My young mare is now schooling Training level happily and I hope to get to a T3D with her this decade (maybe join the 2010 clique!) but heck, I'd go to a Novice 3 day any time--there is nothing more fun and no better way to make the time spent with the horse really count. :yes:

[Invested1]

(and he did win the most conditioned horse award)

I've always wondered--how is that determined?

[Tuckertoo]

I agree--bring it on at Novice! My young mare is now schooling Training level happily and I hope to get to a T3D with her this decade (maybe join the 2010 clique!) but heck, I'd go to a Novice 3 day any time--there is nothing more fun and no better way to make the time spent with the horse really count. :yes:

Do it! :D We're glad to have anybody join, but especially those who have been there and done it and have experience/advice to give.

[denny]

I know it`s been touch and go to keep the half star at GMHA because of light entries. And it`s the same in other places, I`m told.

They`re hard and expensive to run, and when few riders show up, organizers get discouraged.

So it wouldn`t surprise me if the full 3-day does vanish, sometime in the next decade, unless there`s some major initiative to save it.

Right now, there isn`t such an initiative, at least none that I know about.

It would be nice to think the USEA could lead here. Any chance of that?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I know it`s been touch and go to keep the half star at GMHA because of light entries. And it`s the same in other places, I`m told.

They`re hard and expensive to run, and when few riders show up, organizers get discouraged.

So it wouldn`t surprise me if the full 3-day does vanish, sometime in the next decade, unless there`s some major initiative to save it.

Right now, there isn`t such an initiative, at least none that I know about.

It would be nice to think the USEA could lead here. Any chance of that?


I hadn't heard that....I know the one at Waredaca is well attended.

This year events in generally are not filling the way they use to.

In order for there to be initiative...someone needs to take the lead. The USEA is spread fairly thin. I think that they would lend what support they can but someone or some group needs to take the lead. Gather a name sponsor or two....come up with a proposal that they can support.

[PhoenixFarm]

Im running around like a loony today, so I haven't read the whole thread but a few comments.

My position on the importance of the long format is no secret. At the safety summit, on the last day, after hearing another long winded speech about the importance of education, and another bout of hand wringing about how we are going to teach people horsemanship, galloping, speed, xc riding, etc. I stood up and said, "Hey, we HAD a perfect vnue for teaching those things--it was called the LONG FORMAT."

I truly believe a significant portion of these problems would GO AWAY if peoplestill had to prepare for LF.

That being said, I will put away my curmudgeon hat for a minute, and share a recent hopeful expereince. As LF booster, I decided to enter my homebred with his YR in the LF one star at Rebecca Farms. This is a horse i bred with the LF in mind, as at the time I couldn't concieve of thee ever being anything else. They did great, (finsihed 4th), and the rider came of course, with an admitted look of wonder on his face and said, "That was amazing. The best he's ever been, and steeplechase is just FUN." Then he said, "Why can't there be a long format two star?'

We also had along another young helper, who (and this is sad) had never seen or heard of a LF. She was absolutely amazed at the process, and absolutely hooked.

By the same token (k, putting curmudgeon hat back on) I see that of the five horses entered in the AI ht at woodside this weekend, FOUR of them competed in and completed the CCI** at Rebecca a mere two weeks ago. Let me add that in addition to the rigors of the cci**, most of these horses travelled over a thousand miles one way to get there.

Great horsemanship, huh?

[Fence2Fence]

I don't expect the USEA to just suddenly start a committee to promote this. I know from my office job, when I have a 'great' idea, I'm the one stuck implementing it.

Now, if a few of us got together and volunteered our time and efforts to promote the T3DE and contacted USEA, I would hope our efforts would be welcomed.

Anyone interested?

[Speedy]

I definitely support the T3D and hope that the USEA will promote it more heavily. I don't know that promotion is the problem though - everyone I know, knows about the T3D. It isn't lack of knowledge that keeps folks from doing it - it is preparation, time and money, and the fact that many of its biggest supporters aren't competing reliably at T yet themselves.

I don't think it should be mandatory to move up, however. There are the time and money constraints for some. Additionally, there are some folks that don't want to put the wear and tear on their horses. They may be riding horses that are very much ready to move up and have proven themselves at T, but that don't need the added stress associated with conditioning for a long format. This is a decision that should be made with trainers and vets.

[fooler]

I definitely support the T3D and hope that the USEA will promote it more heavily. I don't know that promotion is the problem though - everyone I know, knows about the T3D. It isn't lack of knowledge that keeps folks from doing it - it is preparation, time and money, and the fact that many of its biggest supporters aren't competing reliably at T yet themselves.

I don't think it should be mandatory to move up, however. There are the time and money constraints for some. Additionally, there are some folks that don't want to put the wear and tear on their horses. They may be riding horses that are very much ready to move up and have proven themselves at T, but that don't need the added stress associated with conditioning for a long format. This is a decision that should be made with trainers and vets.

Speedy - In our effort to save our horse's legs, we are killing them. It seems to me that most of the horses that fell at P-A fences in the US this spring had limited experience at the level they were competing. How often do we hear of a 'rising star' (equine & human) that moved up the ranks withing 3-4 years, as in BN-A? Do you remember the ad that appeared in magazines several years ago where a BNR stated if they planned to 'invest 3-4 years' getting a horse 'up to Advanced" they were going to use stated product.
Not every horse and/or rider understands all of the questions (can't think of another word) that are asked at each level in 4 competitions. Most require more time at one or more levels to really understand or if you will to graduate to the next.
I did compete thru Prel - but never qualified for a 3day. Several folks from my old barn did compete at LF 3days & I groomed at several, including Rolex & Chesterland. I know the time and effort required - including the hearbreak when the horse has to be pulled due to an injury received in a training/conditioning session. IMO - removing the LF was the 1st step in gutting this sport.
If a horse's legs can not handle the stress of lower level LF's to qualify for the next level, why are we risking their lives and our lives to rush them to Advance where a breakdown in competition is potentially more dangerous?

[quietann]

Lowly smurf here would *love* to see just the 2nd day (R&T, steeplechase, X/C) at a very low level, to use as a conditioning/training tool. Make it a weekend clinic maybe? As I am unlikely to ever go above BN or maybe N, I wish there was that opportunity for me. Plus, I think my mare would *love* the LF as she's very fit and fast; she came off her first Novice X/C (with a teen rider) with an embarrassingly short ride time (would have been serious speed penalties had it been a recognized Novice event) wanting more more more.

Somehow USEA and all of us ammys out here need to do whatever we can to keep the LF available. For me, that probably means finding one to volunteer at.

[NMK]

Invested1--the award is given based on the veterinarian's choice and by the members of the ground jury, based on parameters on the first "in barn" check, the 10 minute box and the recovery box statistics. It also takes into consideration "presentation" at the vet checks (physical appearance, soundness, etc.) Evidently at SF the vet puts a star on the list of horses noting the ones he sees that have good parameters throughout the event.

Mostly it just makes all those long hours, and hauling to conditioning tracks feel worth the time!! I was amazed at how confident my horse became as his fitness level increased.

Nancy

[CANTEREOIN]

I know it`s been touch and go to keep the half star at GMHA because of light entries. And it`s the same in other places, I`m told.

They`re hard and expensive to run, and when few riders show up, organizers get discouraged.

So it wouldn`t surprise me if the full 3-day does vanish, sometime in the next decade, unless there`s some major initiative to save it.

Right now, there isn`t such an initiative, at least none that I know about.

It would be nice to think the USEA could lead here. Any chance of that?

When you put together proposals, etc... you have to consider, location, cost and volunteers. I think the support we're looking for is financial support from the USEA... that is for the organizers and the instructors.

Face it, the LF, with or without the support of the ULRs, are expensive to run and need more volunteers and I am sure, more paid professionals. There has to be a critical participant level for an organizer to break even or make money. It is also expensive to enter - time and money... well worth it but probably not reachable for many.

Support has to equal money... either sponsorships, member donations/sponsorships and/or USEA funding. I think you solve the money issue the others will fall into place.

My horse and then trainer competed at Waredaca in 2006. The experience was amazing for me as the ground person. I learned alot and have pledged to do one in 2010 (or at least do the work to get me there).

And for those complaining of the amount of seminars, I'm not sure it is clear to the participants that it is an educational seminar rather than a pure competition.

[NMK]

Denny--couple of thoughts (also sent to USEA) ..they are expensive. For riders..$475.00 and two days off work/school (possibly three). They are expensive AND time consuming for organizers (hence I asked the USEA to subsidize them as educational clinics). Thirdly, they are not well promoted.
I would not have tried it or even considered it if not for the fact that I crewed there for a friend in prior years. If it had its own championship or was part of USEA's AEC, that would really help. But mostly, if we collect the data and it shows the success of the program or make it part of a qualification process, people would be more apt to learn more about it and participate.

Nancy

[Invested1]

Invested1--the award is given based on the veterinarian's choice and by the members of the ground jury, based on parameters on the first "in barn" check, the 10 minute box and the recovery box statistics. It also takes into consideration "presentation" at the vet checks (physical appearance, soundness, etc.) Evidently at SF the vet puts a star on the list of horses noting the ones he sees that have good parameters throughout the event.

Mostly it just makes all those long hours, and hauling to conditioning tracks feel worth the time!! I was amazed at how confident my horse became as his fitness level increased.

Nancy

Oh thanks!

[Jazzy Lady]

To enter a LF three day is no more expensive than a SF three day. Bromont is over $800 for a SF CCI*. Midsouth was just over $500 for a LF CCI*. (Just entries).

For those competing at the larger events in the US, even at the lower levels, you have to take time off work anyway. It's run over 3 days, some over 4 because of the sheer number of entries.

[WW_Queen]

I absolutely love the idea of making at least on LF 3D as a "qualifier" to move up to the next level. It exposes the horse/rider to the next level (ie, how to handle speed) and as a mandatory venue it would be well attended. Maybe the championships could be a 3D?

One pricey event where you have to take one day off work per year should not be impossible. It may eliminate a few people who are showing on a shoestring....but as you progress up the levels showing becomes more and more expensive anyways, better to be safe on a lower level than horribly underprepared and overfaced by breezing up to a higher level too soon.

I like the idea of doing a N3D on the basis steeplechase will weed out some of the weaker/more fearful riders from progressing if they are not ready for obstacles at higher speeds.

[Sannois]

Denny.......
As you know, I agree with you 100%. It was fun to see you last week!!

I was at GMHA too, as my daughter was riding. She had done a CCI* years ago with another horse, GMHA last week was the first time at a long format for her current beast.

I have to tell you, we were shocked and saddened by the total lack of understanding coming from the competitors. They had no clue as to how the whole deal worked. There was grousing in the barn from YRs who had "...already BEEEEN to 3 meetings, why do we have to go to anOther one???" Perhaps because the officials know you don't know a bloody thing about what you're doing here and want to keep you safe?? Duh. People were asking us amazing questions ("Do we need to put more shavings in the stall after XC day? Is that what people do at a 3-day?") One person was planning to compete her T3D horse at Prelim this coming weekend. How about the one who went completely the wrong way on R&T and tried to gallop and lie her way out of it. Sheesh.

The long format 3-day event is ALL about horsemanship. The hours spent in the saddle preparing the horses gives the riders insight as to what makes their horse tick. How does he cope with exercise more intense than 30 minutes in the dressage ring? How much CAN he do and how can I help him recover? What is physically AND MENTALLY going on with him? Many riders had no idea what to take to the 10 minute box. Granted they were there to learn but what they didn't know was really pretty shocking. Oh, woe, the list of benefits to horse and rider and to eventing in general is immeasurable and endless.

I still believe the answer to the carnage at the upper levels is to incorporate full format 3-days into ALL divisions, as a REQUIREMENT to moving up. Horse and rider together to complete a full format 3-day at their current level before qualifying for the next level. We already have T3Ds popping up around the country, Morven and Virginia are still running (*)s, Radnor could reinstate the (**) Bromont could surely bring back the (*) and (**), just to name a few local ones. I believe it can but more importantly, SHOULD and NEEDS to be done. So, Denny, you're the brains of this operation, how do we get it done? You know I'll help if I can.

Riverbend, It for sure would bring the aspect of horsemanship which is sadly slipping away.
ITs so sad to hear that people have no clue as to the long format and were not prepared. That is the area of the sport that intrigued me so much so many years ago. Dennys right it is beoming like hunterland! We must stop it!!! PEople in all the divisions would have to EARN the move up.
And Not just complete but finish above 9th place.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

Seems to me the biggest thing we can do to encourage 1/2*s is to keep the number of participants and volunteers up - if you can't ride in one this year or next, jump judge at one, or volunteer to hack your friends horse one day a week to help her prepare despite her pesky job/family/commute. Or get together 5 friends and sponsor a fence. Something tangible which YOU can do, not something you ask someone else to do...

[asterix]

So, this is interesting to me -- if they had all the same seminars and clinician availability at GMHA, something else is different in terms of rider prep with Waredaca -- every year at Waredaca, we get one or two riders (out of something like 40) who do not have a vet box crew/plan. So why were so many riders unprepared at GMHA? I wonder if the accompanying educational materials need to be beefed up or more aggressively promoted ahead of time?

I love the idea of making a T3d a requirement for going prelim. Would the pros howl? Should there be an exemption if the rider has successfully run prelim in the past 2 years?

Interesting side note -- we are doing ICP assessments at Waredaca this week, very illuminating. The single required element of XC for your Prelim certification (there is a pick list of other elements you need to select from) is a steeplechase fence.

[NMK]

RB--There were also some competitors at SF that acknowledged that they will have to come back and do it again. And be more prepared. What I really like about this educational format is that members of the ground jury can talk to each individual, and chances are they do not know any history about them. They see what they see, and can tell it like it is. And the beauty of the LF is that it does weed those out that don't pay attention to details.

Yes, the clinics do make for some long days. Many of us are used to that, some are not. For some it's a wake up call about fitness at many levels.

Just a note--I think the cost of it is worth every penny and then some, but I am not a non-riding parent with kids in this sport that might look at it differently.

One thing we can do is contact the USEA and ask them how we can help promote the T3DE ---raise funds for grants, raise funds for organizers that struggle to put these together for us? Has anyone asked them what we can do to ensure the future of them? Heck, put together some ideas and I'll send that to Jo too.

Nancy

[denny]

If some company would sponsor a series of 1/2 stars, like is done for the Gold Cup, etc, that would help enormously.

Any ideas?

[Fence2Fence]

http://useventing.com/competitions.php?section=training3day

This link says Maiu Jim, Stackhouse, and NunnFiner are presenting sponsors.

Certainly that's a starting point?


This is a small idea, but it would emphasize the T3DE.... The T3DE needs a clickable logo at the top of the USEA site along side the AEC, YEH, FEH, ICP, etc.

[AirJockey24]

Here's my two cents:

I'm a junior rider who after met my 2006 goal of the AEC's, set my sights on the 2007 Waredaca T3D. I was pumped because my dream since I started eventing in 2004 was to ride in a long format. Chances of that at were looking slimmer until I found out about the T3D.

I am fortunate to know Sam Burton (was David O'Connors groom for a number of years) who was at the event and she taught me so much about preparing the horse for the Jog ups and the 10 minute box and pretty much anything needed to know about riding in a long format. I was a bit nervous about steeplechase because my horse is a freight train and has done CCI*/** before, but I was never sure how to ride it. Attending the seminars had to be the best part of the event. Unfortunatly I had a tough fall at the 8th fence on phase D so I opted to retire.

Point is, since then, I have never been more excited about eventing in my life. I have taken what I learned from the seminars, course walks, etc to heart and I've had a different perspective on what it means to be able to ride an event horse (and to condition and train and event horse) successfully. Though I didn't move up to prelim yet thanks to a nasty fall at a later event, I will deffinity take what I learned with me as I move up and I feel more prepared to handle UL events.

I am in full support of making a T3D a requirment for moving up to prelim because the t3d teaches riders to respect the horses, eachother, and the sport.

Thanks.

[Speedy]

Speedy - In our effort to save our horse's legs, we are killing them. It seems to me that most of the horses that fell at P-A fences in the US this spring had limited experience at the level they were competing. How often do we hear of a 'rising star' (equine & human) that moved up the ranks withing 3-4 years, as in BN-A? Do you remember the ad that appeared in magazines several years ago where a BNR stated if they planned to 'invest 3-4 years' getting a horse 'up to Advanced" they were going to use stated product.
Not every horse and/or rider understands all of the questions (can't think of another word) that are asked at each level in 4 competitions. Most require more time at one or more levels to really understand or if you will to graduate to the next.
I did compete thru Prel - but never qualified for a 3day. Several folks from my old barn did compete at LF 3days & I groomed at several, including Rolex & Chesterland. I know the time and effort required - including the hearbreak when the horse has to be pulled due to an injury received in a training/conditioning session. IMO - removing the LF was the 1st step in gutting this sport.
If a horse's legs can not handle the stress of lower level LF's to qualify for the next level, why are we risking their lives and our lives to rush them to Advance where a breakdown in competition is potentially more dangerous?

As I said, I support the T3D. I think the long format, and the things that you learn preparing to do it, are invaluable, so we don't disagree at all on that.

That said, mandating it for a move up at the lower levels may not make a lot of sense for some horses/riders, and the fact is that MOST riders happily stay at the lower levels forever.

I'll give you a personal example of the types of horses that should do it, and those that shouldn't: my older mare was perfectly able to event through prelim. She taught me so much when I evented her! But she had joint issues that had to be managed. She could attain and sustain the required fitness for a lower levels horse trials quite easily, and could compete now and then without any ill effect - but - had I gone off and made an effort to "condition" her for a long format, she may have broken down. The shear repetition of the conditioning work, sometimes on less than optimal ground, would have been quite hard on her. Instead, she spent a few good, managed years eventing with me, and now does quite well in the dressage ring. My young horse, on the other hand, is ready to move up to training and I would love, love, love to do the T3D with her when she is ready - but - she is a very different animal, in that she is a healthy just-turned-6 that can handle the conditioning (knock-on-wood).

If the long format is about bringing along horsemen and the welfare of the horse, then you need to let riders make informed decisions with their trainers and vets about whether or not they should do the long format with a particular horse. The fact that they choose not to may have nothing to do with a lack of competency or skill and everything to do with their horsemanship.

Edited to add: If there is one thing that should be changed about the T3D, I'd suggest it's in the timing of the eduction provided by the organizers. There are an awful lot of folks out there who do what they think they need to do to condition for the T3D (often too much), and then learn from the experts what was really required - and WHY - AT the T3D. I've heard a lot of folks say, "gosh, I wish I had known that 3 months out!" So, my suggestion would be that folks register early (even, if necessary, in anticipation of being qualified), and do the seminar portion of the event several months beforehand, so that folks can really benefit from the education while they are preparing. Attendance at the seminar should be mandatory for the entry (e.g. a part of the qualification requirements). Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the education coming at the end of the process, instead of at the beginning, when so many folks are out there working without trainers, or with trainers that have never done a long format, doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

[denny]

Just spoke with Amanda Edson, who ran GMHA`s T3Day in `07 and `08.
Last year, 38 entries, but a $5,000. gift let them break even.
This year, 45 entries, no gift, probably won`t break even.
Both years, entry fee $450.

Biggest expense, officials, airfare, etc.

Amanda says people like Bobby Costello, Mark Weisbecker, Bobby Stevenson, Katherine Kohn---they really cut GMHA a break, go way beyond and above to make it work.

Amanda says the big challenge is getting enough entries----people say they want it, but don`t enter. Said Coconino even less subscribed than GMHA. (She`s living in Az.)

She is sending me budget figures.

If someone takes this on, I`ll help as much as I can. As GMHA Director Jon Woodhull told me, it`s all about horsemanship "If they can`t take care of their horse on Phase A, B, and C, they don`t get to do D.
If they can`t take care of the horse after D, they can`t showjump on Sunday---"

[CBudFrggy]

...I have to tell you, we were shocked and saddened by the total lack of understanding coming from the competitors. They had no clue as to how the whole deal worked. There was grousing in the barn from YRs who had "...already BEEEEN to 3 meetings, why do we have to go to anOther one???" ...

That's b/c no one KNOWS what it is, what to expect, b/c it's under-promoted and under-utilized.

[asterix]

well, then, Speedy's idea of PRE-education mandatory as part of your entry is a great idea. Have a clinic 3 months out to review conditioning, introduction to the phases on endurance day, logistics prep (like having spare shoes drilled and marked, labelling your gear, getting a crew set up for the vet box), etc.
This does not have to be a mounted clinic so would be easier for folks to attend.

[Thames Pirate]

Just spoke with Amanda Edson, who ran GMHA`s T3Day in `07 and `08.
Last year, 38 entries, but a $5,000. gift let them break even.
This year, 45 entries, no gift, probably won`t break even.
Both years, entry fee $450.

Biggest expense, officials, airfare, etc.

Amanda says people like Bobby Costello, Mark Weisbecker, Bobby Stevenson, Katherine Kohn---they really cut GMHA a break, go way beyond and above to make it work.

Amanda says the big challenge is getting enough entries----people say they want it, but don`t enter. Said Coconino even less subscribed than GMHA. (She`s living in Az.)

She is sending me budget figures.

If someone takes this on, I`ll help as much as I can. As GMHA Director Jon Woodhull told me, it`s all about horsemanship "If they can`t take care of their horse on Phase A, B, and C, they don`t get to do D.
If they can`t take care of the horse after D, they can`t showjump on Sunday---"


I just qualified for a T3DE in June, and while it has been a long-standing goal of mine (still is), the only one out here in Area VII is Lincoln Creek. It happens to fall on the week school starts. As a teacher (and a relatively new one), I can't afford to miss the first 3 days (Wed-Fri) with my students. Many students (ie YRs) can't attend for the same reason. I would LOVE to attend one a bit earlier or maybe a bit later. The trick is timing them appropriately with consideration to things like holidays (NOT on a weekend like Labor/Memorial Day, when many people have plans), school (to accomodate both juniors and parents), timing within the season (if there are only 2 events before the 3 day in the area, it doesn't give people a lot of time to qualify/get back into competition mode), etc. In addition there is the difficulty of scheduling officials, etc.

I am still considering the T3DE in October in California; the problem is that it's a LONG drive, necessitating even MORE time off work (which I can't really get) as well as entering another event in early October so I don't go into it completely cold (having not competed since June), which in turn again requires more time off.

I fully support the T3DE as well as any LF CCI*s (and someday I'll do Rebecca!). I will do whatever I can to keep them around and to bring back the LF for CCI** and above. However, I cannot attend or even volunteer at the one event in my area.

I am fortunate to have been able to groom at 2 LF events (Radnor and Foxhall). That experience will be valuable if I never get to a T3DE before trying for a CCI* (which is several years off).

[retreadeventer]

Gnep, great idea, that would make me go to the AEC's. The delegate at our
T3DE said there is a study from Waredeca about the success of people who go through the half-star there. Does anyone have it? If I remember correctly the results of people that did a half star and then moved on to P found them to be very successful. There is data to be found to support the T3DE, we just have to compile it.

Nancy

Wow! I am late to this party....so sorry....but I have answers to MANY of the questions raised here. Denny, PM me. Nancy, PM me.
As far as sponsorship and nationwide support -- anyone interested in promoting that, PM me. I am behind all of that -- have ALREADY made inquiries on behalf of Area II's T3DE, as you know, I am the sponsorship coordinator, have been for four years now. I have a buttload of info at
http://trainingthreedayevent.googlepages.com/home
including all of our sponsorship folks so far listed there. Please PM me about some of these issues -- I would love to tell you what I've done so we are not re-inventing the wheel here. AND...I would just like to say....we have a WAITING LIST OF UPPER LEVEL riders, trainers and coaches at this point in time for our 2008 October dates. If that isn't caring and interested, I don't know what is. The 900 lb gorilla shrinks a few pounds on that news, eh?
Thanks, Holly

[retreadeventer]

http://useventing.com/competitions.php?section=training3day

This link says Maiu Jim, Stackhouse, and NunnFiner are presenting sponsors.

Certainly that's a starting point?


This is a small idea, but it would emphasize the T3DE.... The T3DE needs a clickable logo at the top of the USEA site along side the AEC, YEH, FEH, ICP, etc.


We have one already made by our own Cheryl M. in area II and it's beautiful. go to our website to see it....posted the link above....the presenting sponsors are offering prizes to every T3D (8) in the nation. However that does not support the event's expenses but just offers prizes to the winners. The Stackhouse saddle that is donated is drawn for, from the winners of the various T3D's nationwide. The girl from Texas won it last year.

I am sure the logo with a little work could be beautiful and work for every T3D.

Sponsorship nationwide - please folks I have already started working on it and I NEED your help to get either Kerritts or Dover Saddlery to say yes!

[RiverBendPol]

I agree that pre-education is a great idea but if you schedule it 3 months out, people will say they don't even know if they are going to do the 3-day, why bother going to the seminar, especially if there is an event on the seminar weekend. Maybe what could work better would be a printed brochure/booklet with chapters on what one needs to do/have/know in order to complete a T3D...it would be a conglomeration of Sally O'Connor's Start Box book, Jimmy Wofford's Training the 3-Day Horse book, a whole pile of tips from hags like me who have been playing the game a while. It would be a fun thing to put together and riders could buy a booklet for $6.00 which would go into the SAVE THE 3 DAY fund.

Retread, you rock.

[pegasusmom]

Just spoke with Amanda Edson, who ran GMHA`s T3Day in `07 and `08.
Last year, 38 entries, but a $5,000. gift let them break even.
This year, 45 entries, no gift, probably won`t break even.
Both years, entry fee $450.

Biggest expense, officials, airfare, etc.

Amanda says people like Bobby Costello, Mark Weisbecker, Bobby Stevenson, Katherine Kohn---they really cut GMHA a break, go way beyond and above to make it work.

Amanda says the big challenge is getting enough entries----people say they want it, but don`t enter. Said Coconino even less subscribed than GMHA. (She`s living in Az.)

She is sending me budget figures.

If someone takes this on, I`ll help as much as I can. As GMHA Director Jon Woodhull told me, it`s all about horsemanship "If they can`t take care of their horse on Phase A, B, and C, they don`t get to do D.
If they can`t take care of the horse after D, they can`t showjump on Sunday---"


Will be interested to see the figures Denny, as I said early, it is a topic of conversation down here in steamy NC - so I'll ask again - are you game to help?????

[specialK]

my daughter was one of the YRs that did the GMHA 3D. the ONLY problem is...she's totally hooked!! And so is her horse, who we found out is a fabulous steeple chaser. She can't wait to do her next one, but they aren't easy to find. The skills learned in pony club, and from her trainer (who did lots of 3 days back in the day) had her well prepared.
WE were in the YR barn and did not hear the complaining that others report. we actaully rented a ski lodge and had 8 YRs staying there. THe dinner conversation was exciting and full of eager anticipation. Discussion of how many wathces to wear and whether it made more sense to run the time up or down. I do think that there was a fair amount of anxiety about what endurance day would bring, and thus lots of questions and realistic concern. Riders should be concerned about what they are getting themselves into and if their horses have been well enough conditioned to manage the physical/mental demands with out undue stress.
I'd love a Novice 3 D and wonder how much more complicated it would be to add it in to GMHA's T3D next year? THere are lots of us out there that are ready and willing to take on the challenge.
What a great opportunity GMHA gave to this generation of eventers. Also Area 1 YR did a nice job building in a team component.

[Gnep]

Denny
Cocconino had 10 entries, which was a shame, a real shame, I was 1 of the entries. I could have done the Training, because I needed one more as a qualifier for AEC. But I felt it was my obligation, as a Long Format Big Mouth, that I had to enter.
It was not realy a obligation, since I love the Long Format and I can't make the qualifikations for a 1 star with my horse this year. For me it was the next best thing to do and it was great.

When we had this 3D movement going I made a proposal, organize a cup or championship, make it 2 areas or maybe 3 east, central and west and than have the what ever top meet in Lexington and duke it out inclusive teams.
I offered $1000 out of my own pocket for a start for the price money, I did not get any takers.

So Denny if you and I are realy serious about keeping the tradition of the real 3D going and make the T3D a building stone for future 3D, probably on a national base, no FEI, no USEF, USEA based, why don't we join forces, put up some money find sponsores riders who have ridden for their country, I know one who would join, and other people. Put a complet package together and go to the USEA.
Not asking them, but presenting it to them, what private initiatif can do.

Give you an example, take John Staples and Reed Ayers program, I am not realy one of the driving forces, but I bought watches and gave them to John and Reed, and the program has endorcement bu the powers to what ever.
It was a well presented program, it was based on purely private action and funding and it got the interest of the brass.

Instead of talking about what we have lost, we need to make it happen, get organizers, get money, corporate and private, get riders, clinichians that donate time etc. and we have to start with our own check book.
It will only work if we can present a complet package to the brass.

If the package is right and worked out with organizer, there might be riders.

I agree completly with Flutie, the Long Format can only excist if it stands on its own feet, not forced on to the riders, coaches and owners, per qualification rules. But in order to achieve that, there has to be more than just a colection of HTs that offer Long Format.

If you are game, I am game.

[Tux61096]

I agree that pre-education is a great idea but if you schedule it 3 months out, people will say they don't even know if they are going to do the 3-day, why bother going to the seminar, especially if there is an event on the seminar weekend. Maybe what could work better would be a printed brochure/booklet with chapters on what one needs to do/have/know in order to complete a T3D...it would be a conglomeration of Sally O'Connor's Start Box book, Jimmy Wofford's Training the 3-Day Horse book, a whole pile of tips from hags like me who have been playing the game a while. It would be a fun thing to put together and riders could buy a booklet for $6.00 which would go into the SAVE THE 3 DAY fund.

Retread, you rock.

What about folks like me who want to acheive the goal of a T3D, but don't have any experience with the LF. I'm an avid reader, so would gladly purchase any written materials, but would like to bolster that with an educational seminar. In fact, I would pay to attend the seminar even if I was not quite ready to enter a T3D, kinda like auditing. So perhaps you pay a lesser fee for the seminar portion, which would then be put towards your total entry fee should you decide to enter on the opening date. Just a (self serving) thought :D.

[Whisper]

Seriously. I would love to see a Novice 3 Day Event.
I remember someone posted about her daughter doing one of those (I think it is also referred to as a "1/4*" event, but I couldn't find it when I searched - it may have expired. Here's one (http://www.oakhurstfarm.com/3day/) in Canada. I think a couple of people expressed concern about doing steeplechase at that height - they felt it was unsafe at steeplechase speeds. I still think it would be fun, and the speed could be modified to be appropriate for the fences, I would imagine.

[Kairoshorses]

I'm late, too, but I want to add an "amen"! I just joined the Yahoo group, and my goal IS to do training by the time I'm 50--which will be 2010--and to be good enough at that soon after to do the 3 day. Damn, I hope it's still there by then.

I just went to Coconino for my first Novice, and I'll be back there--but I'm waiting until I'm "bored" at Novice before moving up. So I can only enter when I'm ready. Again, I really, really hope that Coconino and Meadow Creek continue to have these, because I really want to do one. I've been in the pit crew a couple times, and I know how intense it can be. But wow, what a goal to work towards!

Maybe if a lot of people made donations? I could afford, say, $25 to support the T3D part of the event before I can enter--but I can't afford to pay for two entries.

[Ajierene]

I agree that pre-education is a great idea but if you schedule it 3 months out, people will say they don't even know if they are going to do the 3-day, why bother going to the seminar, especially if there is an event on the seminar weekend. Maybe what could work better would be a printed brochure/booklet with chapters on what one needs to do/have/know in order to complete a T3D...it would be a conglomeration of Sally O'Connor's Start Box book, Jimmy Wofford's Training the 3-Day Horse book, a whole pile of tips from hags like me who have been playing the game a while. It would be a fun thing to put together and riders could buy a booklet for $6.00 which would go into the SAVE THE 3 DAY fund.

Retread, you rock.

This is a great idea. This will work for the 'maybes' as well as the hopefuls that are looking a few years in advance.

The pamphlet can be designed so that the competitors can go to a mandatory clinic a month or two before ( long enough to adjust training at least a little bit, but not so long out that the 'maybes' won't show up) that is designed to go over the pamphlet from page 1 to the end.

I agree that horses would not be necessary. A construction, or visuals of what the different phases would look like would help the competitors understand what they are going to be asked for.

[Whisper]

well, then, Speedy's idea of PRE-education mandatory as part of your entry is a great idea. Have a clinic 3 months out to review conditioning, introduction to the phases on endurance day, logistics prep (like having spare shoes drilled and marked, labelling your gear, getting a crew set up for the vet box), etc.
This does not have to be a mounted clinic so would be easier for folks to attend.
Asterix, for that matter, I'd love to attend the clinic if they had an open spot even if I knew I wasn't going to be able to attend. It sounds like it has a fantastic amount of horsemanship information!

[nextyear]

Why the pre-ed clinics? There are so many GREAT books on prep for a 3-day out there...J Wofford, the first book was great for info on getting a 3-day horse ready and what to expect. Judy Bradwell Eventing Prep, Training and Competition, and Eventing-The book of the 3-day event is excellent. Does any one read books anymore???? And I sure hope all that are getting ready to do their first 3-day are riding with a instructor that has done 3-days.

[Tuckertoo]

Yes, I think that it's a good idea to hold a clinic/seminar several months out to talk over things such as conditioning and what to bring so that people are prepared for the event and aren't learning this stuff the weekend of the event, when it's too late if you forgot/didn't know something. I know that I would attend one now, even though currently I'm just prepping for BN, as I feel at even BN it would be very educational and helpful. The more info I can get the better, doesn't matter if it's BN or A, I need and want to know this stuff to become a better horsewoman.

Of course there will be those people who will say "I don't even know if I'm going yet" but there will always be people like that in any aspect of life. I would think that more people than not would take the opportunity even if, like me, they weren't even planning on doing a T3DE that year.

So I say make these seminars open to anyone who wants to attend, not just those who have to go because they want to do the T3DE.

[Tuckertoo]

Why the pre-ed clinics? There are so many GREAT books on prep for a 3-day out there...J Wofford, the first book was great for info on getting a 3-day horse ready and what to expect. Judy Bradwell Eventing Prep, Training and Competition, and Eventing-The book of the 3-day event is excellent. Does any one read books anymore???? And I sure hope all that are getting ready to do their first 3-day are riding with a instructor that has done 3-days.


I read books. I don't know how to explain it, but for some reason I just can't absorb it through books, no matter how many people recommend them. It's something I have to get hands on instruction for. Books help to a certain extent, but there are some things that I just don't understand until I have a real person standing there, talking to me, and explaining stuff to me.

[asterix]

Sure, there are great books. There are great instructors who have long format experience.

I have a news flash for you. There are now a number of instructors, certified through "Training" level by the ICP, who have NOT done a long format. This number will only increase as the long format fades into obscurity.

Whether or not you can read a book is beside the point. If a lot of people (apparently) showed up at GHMA this year having no idea how to organize A, B, C, and the vet box -- and didn't even know you should have a person (or two or three) in the vet box...then they are not reading the books. Holding a clinic would be a reasonable investment in their education, short of examining them to see if they are "Ready."

The days of showing up at your first * with a long format veteran coach in tow are numbered, if not already gone for many riders.

[RiverBendPol]

Hey, how about winter seminars? That way they wouldn't cut into the competitive season and they'd surely work to get people revved up in the dead dark of February.

[WakeRider]

I love the training 3-day. I competed *and won* one of the first one's held at Waredaca Farm, it taught me so much about both my riding and my horse, etc etc. (i wont reiterate everything which has been said previously... i totally agree...but my point is....)

However, i think that making it *required* is a bit much. Some people work or have school *ahem college!* and can't take the required week off for a 3-day let alone the additional cost. So while i think it should be strongly encouraged, making it mandatory for prelim and intermediate (where hopefully one is smart enough to have the proper training and conditioning techniques under one's belt), i believe, is a bit over the stop.

[retreadeventer]

Folks,
Denny asked me sort of write a synopsis of how the Area II training three day gets the job done. While we have the riches of location, being in Area II with a very large amount of both eligible riders, horses, and a great central place to hold it - Waredaca -- I think we are also blessed by the people that help us out, the upper level riders, the organizers, and the volunteers.

We have been doing it now for five years, we being the Area II Adult Riders program. This group is an active and vocal bunch and we really enjoy each other's company and eventing; and try to get together to get stuff done as often as we can. We have the added advantage of having a good sized membership of about 100 or so, not all are active, but we also have 501.c3 status which helps on the sponsorship/fundraising side, as all contributions are tax deductible as charitable giving.

As sponsorship coordinator, from my side, I start early in the year asking and asking -- we get a lot of donations from a lot of different mid-level and small companies. I have worked on the large companies and one day I hope to make an impression on one of the national level equestrian companies to help us, and I have every confidence we may do that very soon. It's just a matter of getting to the right person at the right time, I think. (Yes, it would help quite a bit if the USEA and I could coordinate a LARGE national sponsor on this as well, and I think that might have a future....)

It does take a lot of work, time and money to put this on. Waredaca spreads some of the work out by holding our half star in conjunction with their fall horse trials, so the courses are already set, dressage arena up, etc. But we cut corners in many ways to make ends meet. We have many people who work for free or at a reduced rate and are very grateful for their contribution. I try and get fence sponsors, prize sponsors, and cash donations to cover the other bills as best I can. I sell ads for our program and am working on getting a couple of paying displays for the weekend, too. Sponsors like the numbers -- lots of people and the continued exposure -- over three to four days. One day horse trials -- well, if someone picks up a free sample, maybe they will take it home and use it. At a three-day -- there's loads more time to look over free stuff, read literature, and become a user of a product because you're stuck there for four days -- and I hawk that side of it extensively to my sponsors.

Our upper level riders and educators come out of loyalty, or because they are persueded by our Area Chairman, or the organizers, or both! We do not ask them to take on a whole day, but rather just a small group for a short time, and try and get several to do this, so no one feels like they are being taken advantage of. Because our three day is held on Wed-Thurs-Fri with Sat. stadium, we are lucky in that many aren't competing until the weekend and can give us some time.

We have dinners three nights in a row and have speakers at the dinners. The topics vary, usually nutrition is one, preparation is another. Max Corcoran always gives a really great talk on studs and preparation for the vet box and does that the night before Endurance Day. Our ULR's take riders individually in the barn area Weds. morning, before the jog, and help teach them how to jog their horses correctly. These are just examples of how over the years Cindy DePorter and Gretchen Butts have organized things. Jimmy Wofford has been a huge supporter and has given a couple of course walks, and one keynote speech where he said that the amateurs at the dinner that night may well be the ones to save the classic three day event. I believe we did give him a standing O for that talk and speaking for myself, felt a couple a tears at that thrilling response for him, from a group of "smurfs" about to go out and trot down a wet trail in the morning mist for the first time on Phase A. Not sure how Cindy and Gretchen get these great people to come and help us but they do!

Riders hack R & T ahead of time so they know where to go. We give a steeplechase demonstration and allow riders to practice with supervision. We have two judges, use a large dressage ring, and the judge has a seminar the day before with a demo rider explaining the test and what they are looking for. Portable stabling is ordered and all the horses stay in the stabling, and riders share tack room stalls. Usually at least one Olympic medalist or USET rider is around to walk cross country with the riders and others give seminars on dressage day, two of them (morning and afternoon so all riders can attend after or before riding dressage). They will talk about how to time R & T, what to do in the box. Everyone is available for questions at all times, our officials are accessible 24/7! Some riders camp out in the stabling area, some stay in hotels but we try and have everyone get to the dinners and seminars. Waredaca has a lovely dining hall on the property we are able to use. Over the years some have tried shipping in each day but stabling there is really easier on the horses.

The most important part (I think) of our half star is the personal experience that the riders share. The event becomes a really neat thing they are a part of, and it becomes one of the greatest things they have ever done with their horse in their lives. By creating this experience, and it comes as a result of many volunteer hands, let me tell you, I think we will also encourage the participants to become evangelists for the format. Every year, former riders come back and volunteer on XC day and write letters thanking us and just in general promote it to others in their barns and circle of friends.

And that leads me to our last and most important link - the volunteers. To say you are interested in supporting the T3D on the bulletin board is nice. But we have people who put the meat in it by showing up, jump judging all day in the rain, etc. As a reward, the volunteers are treated right alongside riders in being welcome to all the seminars, course walks and educational sessions -- even the dinner. They also recieve packets when they attend their briefing with "goodies" just like the riders and grooms. Many volunteer and return as riders and that is what we hope to do -- teach them by watching and volunteering one year, and then they know what to do and can be better prepared when it is their turn to walk into that start box on their horse the next year!

We try very hard to make this a really special affair for everyone, I even make up name badges for our officials with our T3D logo on it and hang lots of banners. Our stabling office is decorated and filled with candy and food and fruit and our volunteer person makes coffee each morning, we really try to make it like a "mini Rolex" for our people, because it's just fun to do, I guess, I have fun doing it and enjoy it when the riders are so ecstatic after stadium on Saturday morning. And you know it really wouldn't be a TRUE adult rider function without some Adult Beverages! We do that too! (shhh - don't tell anyone.)

I really wish we could get a bit more press on these, and we've been lucky to have the USEA cover it a bit in the past -- if I can get results and a write up to them each day they will post it. Robert, Gretchen and Cindy work VERY hard to get this coordinated, and I think they are truly a very special part of this event as well. Gretchen's expertise is just unmatched, she watches all the kids and horses, she knows what will happen, is prepared, keeps an eye out for danger, makes absolutely incredibly perfect courses for the level of riders each year. Last year it rained and rained and yet still everyone came through OK thanks in large part to the Butts family and their preparations and experience.

So those are our ingredients for a successful half star. I am not sure that all areas can do what we do in terms of numbers; nor can all have the preparation or people we have available to us. But I think there can be more support nationwide and I would like to strive for that -- helping other areas and other T3D's get more support and help with the "blueprint" if it works for them.

Want to know the sad part? I'm not even qualified for my own T3D yet! I haven't had enough clean XC rides yet! :))) I'm getting there, though. I need two more and then I will be qualified hopefully for next year's if my horse stays sound enough.

[oldbutnotdead]

This year I voluntered for roads and tracks for the * at Rebecca Farms. It was thrilling to see the horses and riders come through gate C-7!

[rivenoak]

Coconino's T3D is generously underwritten by The Parker Group/Merrill Lynch of Santa Fe, NM.

Last year, the 1st year, there were about 23 entries. This year, I think we had 13 entries but had some scratches, etc. It was sad to see it drop off, but all of our entries are down.

The T3D is my personal goal at this point. It'll take a few years to get there, so I hope it's in existence when the new mare and I are ready.

It does take a lot more work to put on the 1/2*, so please please please, support them! Whether it's with your entry or your volunteerism, show your organizers you want to be a part.

Heck, if there was a 1/4*, I'd be up for that, too! Just one more stepping stone along the way.

Wonder if that'd help boost entries/offset costs & effort? Since everything's already set up for the 1/2*, to just run the N people over the same R&T, 'chase, etc.
Any orgs out there care to comment??

[oldbutnotdead]

Thinking of Coconino's 1/2* in 2009! ;) Punk_pony, don't cringe yet! I won't do it without "approval!"

[frugalannie]

Denny, great idea starting this thread. And Retreadeventer, thank you for the enlightening synopsis.

Can either of you get info on the multiplier for LF costs vs. SF costs at the same level? (that is a 1/2* v. a training level horse trial).

[denny]

In some of those business books, The "champion" concept is credited as the key ingredient for whether some idea makes it, or falls by the wayside. In other words, somone, or small group, gets solidly behind the idea, and constantly pushes that agenda.

This sounds like what Retreadeventer and the Area 2 Adult Riders have done with Waradaca`s Training 3-day.

So this can be a blueprint for other areas, or groups, no?

Here in Area 1, we could get a group to help GMHA push the T 3-D, for example.

It would be nice to think someone on staff at USEA might take on that role there, as well. Right now, the sense I get is that USEA acts as cheerleader for our upper 1% in a disproportionate manner, not reflective of its real constituency.

Read its headlines---Nary a word about any training level 3-days, all about big guns.

So come on, USEA, let`s have some help here???

[CANTEREOIN]

Everything Retreadeventer says about Waredaca is true! When we went there in 2006, I was treated like a superstar. The seminars were hugely educational/entertaining, taught by some of those ULRs that people feel are uninterested in the LF.

I was so impressed that my goal was to do Waredaca (rather than GMHA) in 2010. So, my thinking has changed... maybe I need to work with Area 1 to have GMHA's event as fabulous as Waredaca.

So off to join our Area 1 Adult Rider's program...

[NMK]

One word for the pre-clinic seminar...how about a WEBINAR? If we could get some big guns for an hour, or two, and could post questions to them? Maybe have two a year? That way those considering them can come on line and find out what they are in for...and some of us old hags that have done one can help them. Now that would be one fun webinar.

Cool thread, much needed.--Thanks Baroque Pony...I am better at cleaning stalls.

Nancy

[BaroquePony]

WEBINAR

[/tech nerd]

[rivenoak]

Webinar! +1

Out here in Area X, it would make it easier to "attend."

[rivenoak]

Thinking of Coconino's 1/2* in 2009! ;)

Do it, do it!!

Risk-Averse Rider & I will hoot-n-holler for ya.

This year all entrants got a special Coconino T3D t-shirt & as Gnep said, if you completed, you got a medal.

It looks like mad fun. :yes:

[tx3dayeventer]

I have been lurking, a first for me, ... I would totally help out if there was a webinar.

I might not be competing now but I have done my fair share of long format 3Ds including the very first T3D held at KY. Come to think of it, I don't think I have EVER done a short format 3D (besides CICs but those don't count), as my last 3 day was FoxHall *** was suppose to be the Pan Ams at Fair Hill, if my mare hadn't gone lame 45 days out :rolleyes:. hmm.... I am all for helping keep the LF around and will volunteer to help at the T3D here in TX.

What else can I do to help?

[jumpjesterjump]

i had the chance to spectate at a T3DE in Ky one year, i was running BN or N at the time and thought that it was the coolest thing (it was fairly new, like first or second one run) and was thinking of trying to get to it in later years. Things shifted for me at the time but i would still love to compete at one in my lifetime (if i can find a horse).

But i do remember Palmer Video was there, like always in KY, and had taped all of the educational seminars. My mom bought me the videos, i think there were 5 or 6 in all. They covered how to do R&T, steeplechase, vet box, xc, jogs, pretty much everything you would need to know. They filmed all (or most of) the riders that were participating in the clinics/seminars and used them in the videos. I've watched them quite afew times, over the years that i've had them and every time i watch i pick something new/different up from them. they are very educational, and i think that there should be something to that effect that the USEA could offer for sale/rent to potential T3DE (or 1*) participants, so that they know what to expect going in to their first 3DE.

When i was a groom my first 3DE grooming was going to be Fair Hill, the rider had a student going to Morven CCI* and told me to help them in the vet box so that i knew how to handle Fair Hill. I learned a lot at Morven and even more at Fair Hill. I can't wait for the oppurtunity to came again that i can groom for someone at a three day (or compete in one).

[Fence2Fence]

What's a webinar?

retreadeventer I sent you a PM earlier. I love the logo too.

[Debbie]

oh, a webinar is a TERRIFIC solution to getting the word out.

F2F, a webinar is a conference call with web access so that everyone can view a visual presentation while listening in on the call. (I will have sat through 9 of them in 2 days by the end of today, eek.) Without a huge amount of technical expertise, you can drop in video and photos as well, which can help with the visual learning aspect.

If I ever get my act together between new farm, promotion and lame ponies, a T3DE is in my sights as a competitor, but I will plan to volunteer both time and some (meager, but something) dollars to any organizer in Area III that puts on a 1/2 star.

[NMK]

I'll let Baroque Pony answer this, she's more technically versed than I am...

[denny]

What do we think of stealing the Area 2 concept of trying to get each area`s adult riders to be the "champions" of a Training 3-day for that area?

Then there would be an existing structure in place, tax deductible, I think, and we could rally around their efforts.

This is if they`re willing, obviously, but maybe it means we don`t have to reinvent the wheel.

Like in Area 1, we have GMHA willing to do one, but what if we all (all who cared to) helped out, THROUGH Area 1 adult riders?

Thoughts? Other ways?

[NMK]

Count me in Denny, I so strongly believe in this format. I'm in Area VIII and will work with anyone here to promote it in this area.

I thought of the Webinar because we can all send visuals to one place to view and print...for instance, I got my list of what to have in the vet box from a now out of print book "The Event Groom's Handbook" and then added a few things of my own. We can also share training/conditioning logs for those that are starting out. It would be terrific if navigated by someone special, huh Denny?

Nancy

[CBudFrggy]

Andrew Nicholson's book, Training the Cross Country Horse, has a chapter written by his groom, Kate Green, on how to handle the 10-minute box also.

[Fence2Fence]

I'm willing to do anything to help Area VIII....or any area for that matter! And I already am planning to go up to South Farm next summer and volunteer during the T3DE.

Webinar sounds like a great idea.

[Lori T]

I think having a T3D is a fantastic idea and would love to see it offered at all events, not just select ones. My daughter was really bummed that she had to retire Imp before getting to do one, but maybe she will have the chance with Vertigo...who knows, maybe even Tucker and I will get there someday!
What about working something with pony club? Pony Club is already teaming up with USEA and the certified instructors program..maybe this could be the next step?

[Firefox]

What do we think of stealing the Area 2 concept of trying to get each area`s adult riders to be the "champions" of a Training 3-day for that area?

Then there would be an existing structure in place, tax deductible, I think, and we could rally around their efforts.

This is if they`re willing, obviously, but maybe it means we don`t have to reinvent the wheel.

Like in Area 1, we have GMHA willing to do one, but what if we all (all who cared to) helped out, THROUGH Area 1 adult riders?

Thoughts? Other ways?

Denny, it seems to me that most of us posting fit that bill of adult riders and I am a member of the Area 2 Adult riders and have been stable manager for 3 of the 4 years running and one year I competed. I really feel that it was the best prep ever for my young horse and made to move to prelim for him very easy!!

[BaroquePony]

Whew, I have been reading through some of the other threads trying to figure out how to bring out the main points (eek) :dead:

I am weak in some tech areas :yes:

True webinars usually involve a participant to be on the phone at the same time that they are accessing their computer (two phones lines involved).

But, there are other solutions that would work just as well, if not better.

For instance, having a web site that has a very simple question and answer thread going at the same time there are live links to related videos and related text documents. Pictures and diagrams help too.

You could have a web site that has all options. The option to do a webinar, but also have the other aspects available.

The webinars that I have been involved in usually offer a couple of options.

One option is to be connected via the phone at a specific time and ask questions at that time, but not be on the computer at the same time, having reviewed or studied the computer material earlier. This option is used when taking into consideration people may have dial-up service (slow) or not have state of the art video software (slow). The intention is to make the material being discussed available well in advance so people can view it at a time that is convenient for them. And then the phone connections are made available at certain times that are convenient for whoever may be available to answers specific questions. A teleconference. Teleconferences can be quite a bit of fun and very educational since you have multiple parties involved so others learn from the questions and answers of all.

Of course the best webinars, in a perfect world (hah) has everyone using exactly the same software, two open phones lines using state-of-the-art fiber optics, super high speed connections that don't crash and the fastest video software on the planet.

I don't think it would be reasonable to expect that from any of the participants.

Anyone living outisde of a metropolitan area may have difficulty accessing high-speed connections.

But some very simple web site set-ups could definately be developed that would be very user friendly and provide several types of accessible information.

[retreadeventer]

Count me in Denny, I so strongly believe in this format. I'm in Area VIII and will work with anyone here to promote it in this area.

I thought of the Webinar because we can all send visuals to one place to view and print...for instance, I got my list of what to have in the vet box from a now out of print book "The Event Groom's Handbook" and then added a few things of my own. We can also share training/conditioning logs for those that are starting out. It would be terrific if navigated by someone special, huh Denny?

Nancy

Adult Riders works for us (II) because we have an active group of workers who have rallied behind the idea. We need Adult Rider officers in each area to believe in it and get behind it as Denny has stated before -- how good ideas get implemented, with a whole group of people pushing behind it. The national adult rider coordinator is Cindy DePorter and she's not on this board, but I will shoot her an email and make her aware of it.

My idea for a webinar -- why not do a live streaming of such a session during the national USEA convention and utilize the same technology that has been done in past years to get the live discussion online via the association? At least it would be audio but could be rigged up to include video, I guess, not a techie here.....
Materials presented could be collected and disseminated later in article form -- but this wouldn't allow a lot of Q & A from learners, unless you were there in the room at New Orleans. Webinar is a great idea -- just might take a bunch of money tho to set up and golly, someone has to provide the materials to present, etc.

Already have a website: http://trainingthreedayevent.googlepages.com/home.
Lots of info there including how to prepare and condition for R & T. I can easily add more and if anyone has any good articles that can be "lifted" and placed there -- including the vet box discussion and what to bring from this board -- with permission I'll be happy to set them up there.

[denny]

What`s the best way to start to bring the various Adult Rider groups from each area on board?

And what other plans if there is lack of interest from them?

[FairWeather]

There are a few pro's who are trying to pull together a Championship series Training 3 Day (WITH PRIZE MONEY!). They have been working on it very hard, and would LOVE help. Email me or send a Private Topic and I'll hook you up with them.
It is very much in it's infancy, hence not much public information, but I know they'd be thrilled with not only the verbal support seen on this thread, but actual help pulling it all together.

I got copied on an email the organizer sent to Denny, so hopefully he got that and will give his thoughts. <nudge nudge!>

The organizers are working with the Adult Riders in Area 2 right now and really want to see this program succeed as a "destination" event.

[horsecents]

Those interested in promoting the T3DE within the area could contact the Adult Rider Coordinator in their area and volunteer their services to help coordinate ideas. Possibly contact the organizer directly to see what assistance they need. Cindy DePorter is the AR committee chair, she would be the go to person, especially to get it discussed at the upcoming USEA Annual Meeting.

[melodiousaphony]

Just tell me what to do and I'll help!
I'm bummed that there is only long format (as far as I know) at training level, so I'll do what I can to try to keep that at the very least.
Right now, I just need someone to give me direction.

[retreadeventer]

What`s the best way to start to bring the various Adult Rider groups from each area on board?

And what other plans if there is lack of interest from them?

Letting my brain run on a bit here...are you thinking of sort of a new national organization, sort of a 501.c3 - like a UST3DE? where all the educational training three days can sort of go to get help or money or how-to? And sort of franchise the T3D's around the country so there is valuable expertise, help with PR, help with sponsorship including funds?

[Gnep]

retreat, that would be the way to go, even if it were not a 501.... money could be funnelt through the horsetrial foundation. I just can not remember at the time its correct name or web adress.

[denny]

Personally, I like the Area 2 model, but that may only work because a few people make it work, and those same kinds of people may or may not be in other areas.

So I`d advocate pushing USEA to contact their Area Adult Riders, float the idea of those adult rider groups championing the T3-D, to see if there are "takers".

Only if that initiative falls flat would I think we look elsewhere.

[frugalannie]

So, Denny, if I'm following you the idea is that everyone who has posted on here that they want to do a three day (training level or not), and they support it etc. should contact their Area Adult Rider co-ordinator and see what they can do to either:

- support any three day in their area with volunteering, getting more riders interested, fund raising, etc.

- help create a three day in their area by developing a team to work with a willing organizer.


I agree, BTW, that the adult riders are the ones who have to provide the engine for this effort. There's nothing that a bunch of old smurfs can't do when motivated.;)

[RiverBendPol]

Area 1 Adult Riders:
adult-riders@area1usea.org
Cindy Strate and Heidi Beaumont

[CookiePony]

Finally reading this thread after several days away from COTH...

As for whether the T3DE is endangered-- maybe, maybe not, but the bottom line is that we could be doing so much more with it. A national championship, perhaps at AECs, would be fabulous! So would a higher profile and more national sponsorship.

I love the idea of a pre-event session. I think the webinar idea has potential, but an in-person experience, particularly if it involves volunteering, would be ideal. As retread said,
Many [people] volunteer and return as riders and that is what we hope to do -- teach them by watching and volunteering one year, and then they know what to do and can be better prepared when it is their turn to walk into that start box on their horse the next year!

Is it realistic to require volunteering at a previous T3DE for riding in one? This is an honest question.

I know Cindy DePorter has been supportive of the T3DE and it could well be worth a conversation with her over how to integrate it in the Adult Riders programs. Retread, your participation would be mandatory. ;) Will you tell us if she emails you back and seems willing? People who are interested in such a conversation (via conference call, I imagine), drop me a PM. If Cindy is willing I would be happy to set up the conference call.

[denny]

I don`t know if THE T3-Day is endangered, but I know that Area One`s current T3-Day at GMHA will be, sooner or later, if it keeps losing too much money.

This relates to how many entries they get, how much fund raising gets achieved, how many volunteers they get, lots of things.

And those are all things that a vigorous support program can improve, luckily.

[ValleyMiss]

Been away from COTH for almost a week, so I'm just now catching up on all of this. I just wanted to add a couple of things. About 4 or 5 years ago I was competing in my first recognized HT, BN at Mayfest. One of the other girls I rode with was riding in the T3D. Luckily school had let out for the year already so I was able to go down for the whole event and I got to participate in the seminars as well. It was such an amazing experience. I even had the opertunity to ride out on R&T with my mare, just to get a feel for it and the timing. Being there and getting to experience that as a spectator/groom (luckily the endurance phase didn't interfer with my own ride times) I learned so much. And it made me want to participate myself. Unfortunatly I am a wennie and probably won't ever make it to training. For that reason I love the idea of a N3D. Everything could be scaled down and the steeplechase wouldn't have to be run as fast. That would be a wonderful opportunity to give people the exposure to the LF at the lower level.

Anything that can be done to promote the T3D and to possible organize a N3D, well count me in. I am going to try to volunteer at the South Farm T3D next summer.

[LisaB]

Here are some thoughts:
Glen Oro had held a 1/2* for years before it came down here. A friend of mine and I proposed to a certain local GMA that we hold one right in VA at a certain lovely venue that already held a * and ** at the time. You know what? We got royally shot down. Enough for me to call it quits on that outfit. They stated they didn't believe in it and Karen O'Connor said it was dangerous to hold steeplechase at that low of level. Well, Karen certainly changed her tune :cool: She groomed for Max the year before last. Anyway, the Area 2 Adult Riders proved them wrong :D
It took awhile for it to ramp up. The entries were low and the effort high. But there was an altruistic sense about holding the 1/2*. We knew we needed it for the sake of education because of the downfall of the long format. And we were right. So, don't give up hope on the numbers just yet.
And after I did the 1/2*, I stated that I think it should be mandatory at least for the YR's before they do a *. I would rather have them make errors and not know their head from their ass at a 1/2* than a full *. I think it should actually be mandatory for all * virgins to complete a 1/2*. It was that eye opening. I truly did have a different horse on phase d. And he's Mr. Consistency at a show. So don't ever think that's not your horse. That your horse won't change. Oh, he's a wb, he'll be fine. Heck I have a part draft and he was a beast and I had to slam his ass down in the beginning and got some time penalties for it.
And the FEI are just a bunch of money grubbing whores. There's been quite a few successes in Europe for the 1/2* and a lot of cancellations too. But they see $$$ and that's it.
I think it be mandatory and also still just a clinic. That is only if everyone has the ability to participate in one. If there's none on the west coast then it won't be fair to them.
Denny, we are at the infancy stage of this. So there are lots of venues being spread out so I think that's why the lower numbers. Also, I would much prefer the complainers to whine at a 1/2* and mess up than a full *.

[Emstah]

Well, I did the training 3 day at GMHA and it was fantastic- loved every second of it! It was great because even though I had done a 1* back in my YR days, I hate to admit that I had forgotten the ins and outs of it all. It was great to have it be educational and have them take us through step by step. One thing I would certainly recommend for future years is to have something online or mailed out as a resource for people who really have NO clue! Upon entry I think you should have to read through a certain amount of material on preparation and what the actual event will entail and then sign a thing that says you've read it all and understand it. I felt like I knew more than everyone there about what was expected and it had been close to 7 years since I had done one! Just suprised and saddened me how little everyone knew.

Anyway, onto the good news, my horse has never jumped so well as he did in the steeplechase! Take a peek and feel free to gush over his beauty :winkgrin:

http://www.hoofpix.com/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=28980&category=gallery/Proofs/PresentYear/GMHA%203-Day/M/Merrill_EM&start=0

[CANTEREOIN]

What a beautiful picture.

[RiverBendPol]

What a beautiful picture.

www.hoofpix.com happens to take the very best photos. Check out her whole site-you can get a lampshade with your horse's face on it!!

[three_dayer]

i rode in a few three days when i was a young rider, but after i hit 21, school, work, and no horses got in the way of me having a good time. I evented once in a while, borrowing horses, but not really being competitive. This year im borrowing my moms horse and i rode in the 1/2* at coconino...i had forgotten how much fun steeplechase is and how enertaining roads and tracks are(i always feel like im lost most of the time) and how different the horse was on x-c...way too much fun..the one thing that they didn't discuss much at the meetings about how to take care of the horses after x-c...but most of the meetings were very educational. now my horse has changed his attitude about everyting, very quiet and relaxed, its a bit weird but what can you do? Thank you to coconino ht for putting it together, it was a great event, and so much fun!!!

[NomdePlume]

Well, there are some other long formats out there... Rebecca Farms, for one, runs a beautiful CCI* long-format.

But per the T3D, it is a fantastic idea. I am surprised to hear that so many riders were unfamiliar with the long-format, however, this must be part of a generational shift.

I would also simply like to add that I find the qualifications, at some venues, too strict. Qualifications are at the discretion of the venue, and in many cases it is 20 penalties xc and 3 Ts. The T3D at Galway in Area VI is 4 clean trainings with the horse and rider as a combination. A friend would love to run the T3D before she moves her new horse up to prelim (both of whom have run through Intermediate separately), but have a 20 on their record at Training and not enough time to squeeze in 4 more HTs before the T3D. They'll be running the long format CCI* before they ever had the chance to try out the T3D!!! It's too bad, because it's such a good education for the horse...we need MORE of them!

[three_dayer]

tell your freind to call up robert kellerhouse and discuss the problem with him, i didn't have my qualifications to ride at coconino, but i got to run cause the organiser thougt that i would be ok...i did very well and had a blast good luck, im thinking about going to run prelim there, think that will be fun, have to figure out how to get out of school, such a pain in the buttocks....