Weird how the universe comes to help you out.

[FootPerfect]

I've been shopping online for horses for the past month. I've probably looked at 100's online and had 5 set up to look at this week. One of my barn mates is also looking. For a different type of horse, different level of riding.

Last weekend a couple of my barn mates went to look at a TB gelding at the junk farm about 1/4 mile from our place. This is one of those farms with horses stuck everywhere, minimal care and junk all over the place. Garbage here and there, wire piles, hay bale strings left in paddocks where they fell. My friends rode him and he was too big and too green for the buyer, but my barn owner thought he'd be great for me.

So the owner of the junk farm rode him to our barn today and I took a lesson on him with my instructor.

Walking out of the arena my instructor said "Buy him." So he's at the barn, I am having a vet check done on Friday. My vet refused to do it sooner saying "I can hear the stars in your eyes, you need to sleep on this. I'll talk to you tomorrow morning." :)

He's an 8 year old TB gelding. His history is kind of sketchy, but it sounds like he didn't make it as a race horse and stood in a pasture until he was 5 or 6. Then was purchased as a barrel horse. That didn't work out and the lady at the junk farm decided to trade one of her barrel horses for him because "she wants to get into Grand Prix showjumping." :eek: (This is a western rider who has just decided to do this.... anyways...) Junk farm lady said "I ran him at a 4' jump and he jumped it."

Oh-kay.

Also, "We've been jumping barrels regularly." But on the bright side she said "I don't know anything about english so I didn't mess with his head or a head set at all." and she is adamant about not using tie downs or draw reins or any type of training device. She watched our lesson and we now have a new dressage and jumping convert. :)

So in my lesson I gave little hugs with my legs and he rewarded me with a huge swinging walk. His trot is huge and springy and when I sponged just a little with my inside rein he said "Oh, you want me to do this?" and he picked up a little contact. Half way through our trot work he said "You know, I really need to stretch forward and down" and did that all along the long side. His canter is huge and lovely. We did trot poles at the walk and after 3 or 4 times was saying "Ok, I'll just go down the middle here." He figured it out at the trot really quickly. We jumped about a 6" vertical once and after that he said "I'll just trot this, if that's OK with you. Less energy you know."

He's very laid back. Curious about the world. He did spook once but it was one of those in-place I am going to shrink spooks. He's also about 150#'s underweight. So he probably thinks he's died and gone to heaven because he gets hay thown at him every time he turns around now. He need to have his teeth and feet done. He's a bay TB with black points. 2 white hind anklets in the back. About 5 white hairs where a dot would be. About as standard of a bay horse as you can get. And I am totally smitten. And I think he is as well. Every time I walk to his gate he leaves his current project of hay and comes up with ears up to just stand with me.

We put a stick on him and he's a hair above 16.2hh. Built uphill. :) When I asked what level of dressage my trainer thought he could do, trainer said 4th level with ease. She said she would buy him for herself. He enjoys jumping. :)

So we'll see. If he tanks on me and has issues I'll move him on and try again.

But I hope he works out. I am so excited. Stars in my eyes as my vet says.

Back to sleep with me:sleepy:

[IrishDeclan]

He sounds lovely!! I hope everything works out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!! :)

[wolfmare]

I love a new partner story!! He sounds exactly like a universe meant to be for both of you! And I really like how you are enjoying the wonderful star in your eyes high, yet maintaining a little bit of reality check.
Best of luck on the PPE.
Pictures and name when vet gives the okay please.

[Sannois]

I've been shopping online for horses for the past month. I've probably looked at 100's online and had 5 set up to look at this week. One of my barn mates is also looking. For a different type of horse, different level of riding.

Last weekend a couple of my barn mates went to look at a TB gelding at the junk farm about 1/4 mile from our place. This is one of those farms with horses stuck everywhere, minimal care and junk all over the place. Garbage here and there, wire piles, hay bale strings left in paddocks where they fell. My friends rode him and he was too big and too green for the buyer, but my barn owner thought he'd be great for me.

So the owner of the junk farm rode him to our barn today and I took a lesson on him with my instructor.

Walking out of the arena my instructor said "Buy him." So he's at the barn, I am having a vet check done on Friday. My vet refused to do it sooner saying "I can hear the stars in your eyes, you need to sleep on this. I'll talk to you tomorrow morning." :)

He's an 8 year old TB gelding. His history is kind of sketchy, but it sounds like he didn't make it as a race horse and stood in a pasture until he was 5 or 6. Then was purchased as a barrel horse. That didn't work out and the lady at the junk farm decided to trade one of her barrel horses for him because "she wants to get into Grand Prix showjumping." :eek: (This is a western rider who has just decided to do this.... anyways...) Junk farm lady said "I ran him at a 4' jump and he jumped it."

Oh-kay.

Also, "We've been jumping barrels regularly." But on the bright side she said "I don't know anything about english so I didn't mess with his head or a head set at all." and she is adamant about not using tie downs or draw reins or any type of training device. She watched our lesson and we now have a new dressage and jumping convert. :)

So in my lesson I gave little hugs with my legs and he rewarded me with a huge swinging walk. His trot is huge and springy and when I sponged just a little with my inside rein he said "Oh, you want me to do this?" and he picked up a little contact. Half way through our trot work he said "You know, I really need to stretch forward and down" and did that all along the long side. His canter is huge and lovely. We did trot poles at the walk and after 3 or 4 times was saying "Ok, I'll just go down the middle here." He figured it out at the trot really quickly. We jumped about a 6" vertical once and after that he said "I'll just trot this, if that's OK with you. Less energy you know."

He's very laid back. Curious about the world. He did spook once but it was one of those in-place I am going to shrink spooks. He's also about 150#'s underweight. So he probably thinks he's died and gone to heaven because he gets hay thown at him every time he turns around now. He need to have his teeth and feet done. He's a bay TB with black points. 2 white hind anklets in the back. About 5 white hairs where a dot would be. About as standard of a bay horse as you can get. And I am totally smitten. And I think he is as well. Every time I walk to his gate he leaves his current project of hay and comes up with ears up to just stand with me.

We put a stick on him and he's a hair above 16.2hh. Built uphill. :) When I asked what level of dressage my trainer thought he could do, trainer said 4th level with ease. She said she would buy him for herself. He enjoys jumping. :)

So we'll see. If he tanks on me and has issues I'll move him on and try again.

But I hope he works out. I am so excited. Stars in my eyes as my vet says.

Back to sleep with me:sleepy:
Just reading your story! He sounds like a dream. Seriously praying that it all works out!
Keep us posted!
:yes:;)

[thumbsontop]

He probably has stars in his eyes too! I hope the vet check goes well.

[riva1]

Ohhhhhhhhh - I hope it works!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pony grandma]

Thank you -- that nice story read was perfect with my morning cup of coffee!! Much better than the world news in the local newspaper. What a nice lift to my day to read about your new friend and future partner. Lucky both of you. Hope all goes well!!

[Josey'sMom]

He sounds wonderful! Crossing my fingers he passes the vet check with flying colors and we'll be seeing pics soon.

[foxhavenfarm]

Thanks so much for sharing that story-Love it! Hope the vet check is a good one!

[zagafi]

He sounds lovely!

[ThatScaryChick]

Great story! I hope it all works out for the both of you.

[ellebeaux]

Wow, sounds like a wonderful partnership already! I hope you print out and keep this post for your scrapbook on him :)

Do keep us posted!

[TexasTB]

Well be sure to keep us updated on ya'lls progress together!
How exciting for you :)

[bludini]

He sounds wonderful and I really hope it works out. Sounds like a great horse I found at the track who vetted perfectly clean and is now training for eventing and GP jumpers!

Pictures FRIDAY, right?



I am having a vet check done on Friday. My vet refused to do it sooner saying "I can hear the stars in your eyes, you need to sleep on this. I'll talk to you tomorrow morning." :)



BTW, I hope you "kiss" your vet for looking out for your best interest. What an awesome encouragement, really.

[rideforthelaurels16]

Wow, lucky you! Sounds like you're made for each other!

[Kairoshorses]

Horse hunting can be SO frustrating-but when you find THE partner, it's so incredibly wonderful Stars in your eyes, indeed! I can relate. I found my true love after he sat in a field for five years. They are out there! I hope you keep us posted, and good luck to the both of you!

[Lori B]

A win for everyone, with luck. How cool! If the vetting goes well, we will need pics!!!

[KayBee]

I hate to say it... I'm jealous!

Seriously, sounds like a match made in heaven. I hope all goes well and you get to enjoy the years of pleasure ahead of you both.

[kcrubin]

cool beans!

sounds great - good luck on Friday

[FootPerfect]

Thanks everyone! I will post pictures on Friday but I warn you, he is not in great shape. Even if he does not pass the vet with flying colors I will keep him. I cannot let him go back to the place he came from.

I am so nervous about the vetting; I really hope it goes well. I am hoping I don't jinx myself. (I've even picked a barn name... Max) He does have some faults like he is a little over at the knee and his right hind cants out a little bit. But who is perfect? Really I want to develop my dressage and do BN or N so I don't think being over at the knee will really hurt those goals.

I rode him again this morning and it was amazing. Again I started asking for just a little contact and again he was happy to comply. We went out to our outdoor arena with a couple of my barn mates. Usually I am a big chicken when it comes to riding outside but we were walking, trotting and cantering around and we were having a great time. He lacks steering and balance but that did not really bother me at all and usually those things would. I can see my self galloping with him and I never felt like I could do that with my other horses, due to their sneaky-ness or lameness issues. He has a sweet spot in the trot that when I find it just right with my seat I feel at one with him.

Really amazing.

After our work, my barn mates and I rode down the lane a ways. He could have cared less about the other 2 horses next to him. Or the garbage truck that came roaring up the driveway. When we went back to the barn one of the horses tried to take off and was spinning. He just walked past and didn't even flick an ear at her. :yes:

When he tries to do something like take a step forward while I am running the stirrups up I just say a quiet "no" and he would stand stock still. I led him into the alley and said "Whoa" and he stopped. I walked him to the stall door, turned to go in and said "Whoa" and he stopped and took a step back.

Yup, I still have stars in my eyes.

More to come. Vet check is Friday around 3:30 central time.

[LessonLearned]

Well, I know *I* can't wait for Friday. . . :winkgrin:

Good luck with him -- he sounds like a winner!!! :)

[FootPerfect]

I've never posted a link before so we will see if it works. These photos are from my barn mate and barn owner who went to the junk farm to look at Max before I did. So you can see the place where he came from. :eek: Most of the photos have the owner riding him. Please don't post comments on the photo site, Maria would not understand.

I have to say this again, this is not the farm I board at!

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8AbN2zZo1ZuGP4&emid=sharview&linkid=link5"

So you can see his condition. It's worse close up. But in a couple of the photos you can see moments of what he has to offer.

[NMK]

My grandmother once gave me a generous gift to "invest" and of course I found a project at the track...he had fungus all over him but a kind eye. And the trainer said, "he bites." I said, this one? Bites what? He said "wood." Yup, he was a cribber and did not pass the vet, failing flexions behind. But I COULD NOT bring myself to take him back to the track. I tried. Really I did. I hooked up the trailer and went to load him, and he gave me "the look." So back to his stall he went. My "project" became the horse of my dreams, took me to P and taught others the joy of the sport in his twenties. I do believe horses find you, he certainly found me.

Nancy

[RHdobes563]

I'm a sucker for a bay horse. Love the online pictures of him under saddle---looks like such a kind soul.

Good luck with (Max"imum") Stars In My Eyes! :winkgrin:

[annikak]

I may be wrong in saying in saying this...

Doesn't matter WHAT the vet says...if he is broken, okay, but...He is quiet, and nice and pretty and lovely and very special.

Buy him. If he has joint issues, those can usually be dealt with. If he has other things, they can be dealt with. Broken bones, okay, maybe not, but...

horses like that are few and far between. Very special horse you got there, lady!

[Anna79]

"I can see my self galloping with him and I never felt like I could do that with my other horses, due to their sneaky-ness or lameness issues." -FootPerfect (I tried to quote it but it didn't work)

This quote really spoke to me. That's such a wonderful and rare feeling to have. Good luck to you. My fingers are crossed for the vet check!

[SEPowell]

30 more minutes until vet time. Good luck to you and horse!

[Watermark Farm]

I just loved reading your story! Thank you for sharing it.

I found a horse in a very similar way and rode her for 18 wonderful years. Never knew her history. Took her to intermediate. Best horse of my life. And she did not pass the PPE, but I bought her anyway. She was still being ridden by my kids the day before she died at age 25.

I used to help my coach shop for horses. We found many junkyard horses through newspaper ads. It was fun to see them blossom into magnificent sporthorses. One in particular went to Rolex!

[bludini]

So you can see his condition. It's worse close up.What are you talking about? He's beautiful! He may not be hunter fat, but he's going to be an eventer!

I agree with the others. Unless he has an issue that cannot be treated, buy him. Sounds like you've already decided that.

And his color is PERFECT! Bright bay, dark black points and perfect hind socks. Who could ask for more!?!


Oh, also, Gent seems to be his current name, yes? THAT sounds like a GREAT name. Too many "Max s" around. Gent is far more descriptive and unique for this man. And somebody said "Stars in my eyes." Sounds like you've got his show name too!

Fingers crossed. And thanks for the pics.

[kcrubin]

He looks GREAT!! Waiting to hear the results and decision!

[Fence2Fence]

What I like about him, is he looks really Sturdy and Tough, and a kind face.

Let us know how the vet check goes!

[jenm]

Wow...what a find!! He looks like a great horse and I just love this story.

I'm looking forward to the update and more pictures. :)

[FootPerfect]

Well, the vet check on Max did not go well. Basically, only his front left leg is good. His front right leg has a bench knee. He did not flex sore on it, it's more of an alignment issue. Vet was not worried about it, given my goals and also when you look at the rest of the picture.

Goals: I want to work on dressage and event BN and maybe N. I want to go to the championships at BN. :)

Max has had some type of trauma to his right hip/tail area and has a bad right sacral illiac (sp?) joint which then affects that right leg. He flexed a very mild positive on his left hind and positive on his right hind. To quote the vet 'Right SI painful upon palpation & flexion, can see displacement (of bone) by visual exam."

My vet says that you will see this type of injury in larger, longer backed horses. She said if she were to go though a large barn that had 40-50 horses, she would find quite a few horses with this problem. The larger the horse, the more common it is. If I were looking at ponies, this would be a non-issue. Quite often people think they are having stifle or hock issues and it's really this joint. She also said there are no really good ways to treat this issue. She could also point to a woman named Sue Dyson out of New Market England who has horses with this issue in work and they are going very well. I need to see if I can find information on her on the internet and see if she has published anything about working with this kind of injury.

My vet also did not think his hocks were coming under him at the trot, but they were at the walk and canter. She thought this may be correctable by training but there is no guarantee. He does really paddle in with his hind feet, almost crossing over underneath with one. Interestingly, when he had more impulsion at our jog out in the trot this became a non-issue. Who knows what a good trim and shoes will do for him. They should help for sure.

So where does that leave me?

From some research I've been able to do on the internet, I suspect he is closer to 6 years old than 8. How/when this trauma happened who knows. Right now at the walk/trot/canter he is comfortable to ride. I asked about a work routine to see how best I could manage him from the get-go. Vet said 20 min of work to start, adding 5 min each week. Spacing ground poles out so he really has to stretch that hind end. Also supplementing with the flax and oil to help with his joint health. Being careful to build him up slowly and correctly, to monitor how he's doing and to not ask for more than he's capable of. None of this will help the ligaments correct themselves but by building up the muscle perhaps we can create a sling and protect this area and manage it.

Sadly, there is just "no certain outcome." My vet can point to several upper level dressage horses that have this issue and are good with it. Or you can go the other direction and have my other horse who has this issue, who just cannot do it. So it's just a gamble and one that I now have to decide if it's one I have to take. Since I have just gotten this diagnosed in one of my other horses I know the pain signals. Now that I know what to look for I can be very careful to not ask more than he is capable of.

For me, riding has always been more about the journey than the goal, although I have to admit I do have goals that I want to meet. Also, from a sappy animal lover prospective, I really do not want him to go back down the road to that farm.

So I talked to the seller tonight and made a very low counter offer on him. She originally asked $2500 for him and I offered her $1,000. I left the door open to discuss this with her more and I am going to meet her around 9 tomorrow to show her what we can see physically and will also give her a copy of the vet report. She's a horse dealer and currently has 35 head. I pointed out to her that this horse will never pass a vet and basically indicated to her if she's willing to "cut bait" I would take him on and give him the best home and care as I could; to manage him, never asking more of him than he is able to give. Since we are 1/4 mile down the road from her she can check up on him. I think for a horse dealer she is attached to him, and what I am hoping is she will let her heart to the right thing. The counter to this is the major ^$%$hole of a husband she has.

As much as I do NOT want him to walk back down the road I saw enough during the vet check that I just cannot take a big risk. I asked the seller if I could have him for another week or 2 for me to get in a few more rides to see how he does with the increased work load and also to wait for the vet report. I also want to talk to the 2 small animal vets in my barn and my trainer to see what they think. My trainer is going to talk to the vet as well.

He's got an awesome mind and lovely gaits. If I can figure out a way to manage him and get really good correct training on him, then perhaps we can do great things.

I do think I will set up times to go look at a few other horses that I was going to look at this week. Just to clear my mind and to try to keep perspective.

1-2 weeks of light work isn't enough I don't think to really get a feel for how this will pan out, but if it stays the same and maybe improves a little bit then I am more willing to come up a bit in price.

Tomorrow I hope to ascertain what her absolutely lowest price is, then ask her for some time to work with him to see if I can provide a reason for myself to come up toward her price.

My vet gave him a body score of 4 which is not terrible. So that is good.

I hope to get video tomorrow and will take some still photos of his rear end so you all can see the "bumps" we can see. In an interesting aside, my girlfriend had come to see him tonight and then went to the track later to watch the races. She said about 80% of the horses walking to the post had the same bump in the same area. So that was an interesting aside.

Sorry if this jumped around a bit. I need to go back to bed.

Cheers.

[wolfmare]

Glad you are treading lightly.
In this market- and not knowing where you are, I think your offer sounds reasonable. Good starting place anyway. Also good to go look at those other horses. Hardest part sounds like if you decide not to have a go- you really don't want to feel responsible to send him back to the owners farm. My experience has been its hard to reach goals starting sound! Something always comes up. I like that he is willing to move forward when he is uncomfortable. I hope you can find a common purchase price if you go ahead... I am all over the place too! Need to sleep.
Wishing you all the best of luck, you and "Max"

[WW_Queen]

Max has had some type of trauma to his right hip/tail area and has a bad right sacral illiac (sp?) joint which then affects that right leg. He flexed a very mild positive on his left hind and positive on his right hind. To quote the vet 'Right SI painful upon palpation & flexion, can see displacement (of bone) by visual exam."

My vet says that you will see this type of injury in larger, longer backed horses. She said if she were to go though a large barn that had 40-50 horses, she would find quite a few horses with this problem.

Is there any further exam they can do to assess exactly how bad the area is? Many horses do have sacral problems (my own "big" horse included) which manifests itself as a hunter's bump. Lots of horses do the UL's in ANY discipline with this problem.

Building up the back muscle is crucial, cortisone injections have helped, as well as chiropractic, good shoeing and I hope to try accupuncture.

My only concern is the comment about the displacement of the bone. Does she mean in the spinal area? If so, it could be a sublaxation of the spine which manifests itself as a hard, bony lump (or lumps) in the sacral area. My chiropractor was able to readjust my horse and after three treatments the lumps were completely gone! (Granted, they have come back after he slipped and fell on the lunge however at least I know what they are and how to fix them.)

Could you buy him to "rescue" him, fix him up and then sell him as a hack/pleasure horse or AA dressage horse? :)

[annikak]

Did you ask the vet if they would take the change given your goals?? I know that sounds strange, but I will almost bet that many horses would have a PPE that sounds like that. Honestly. Really. For Real. :yes:

How old did your vet think he was? For some reason, I thought he was TB, and therefore might have a tatoo.

Sorry it was not stellar, but I think it's not all bad. Good Luck- he is lovely! I can only imagine what my PPE would look like...I would never be sold! :lol:

[FootPerfect]

Since I've been dealing with this exact issue in my other horse for the past 9 or 10 years I know how to work with it. The bone is actually displaced. If he wasn't positive on the flex test then I would have been more willing to work with it. But he was positive in both legs and he's only been getting worked once a week or less. And not "work" like we think of it. Work as in being ridden down the road ponying other horses.

The best I could do with the horse that I currently have is to get him to training level. He just cannot canter with out pain. I have put a lot of time, money and emotion in to my current horse only to have spent the last 10 years at training level. Like I said, it's about the journey but when your journey is stuck in a circle then it's not much fun.

I rode current horse today and I realized, he's not fun to ride. Even after 10 years of dressage work. Good work. I had fun on Max and I want something that I can go out with and work with. I've been in horses for almost 30 years and a lot can happen to a horse. I know no horse is perfect. But give my current history, financial situation and frustration of being stuck at training level I just cannot take a risk like this.

Seller was not willing to budge on price nor was she willing to "see" what I was talking about. Had she come down, even a little I would be more willing to take the risk.

So I passed on him for right now and will keep him in the back of my mind while I look at some other horses for perspective. I have 4 horses lined up to look at next week and will see where that goes. Maybe I go back to Max and ask for a trial at a later date.

I am kind of down about this. I'll sleep on it and mull it over.

Thanks all for your support and comments. I hope I didn't break your hearts to!

[annikak]

I am so sorry for you. I know about being on a road that feels endless, and I totally understand your position. I am sorry that this one had such issues. I had 3 (YES!) horses not pass their vet checks with heart murmurs. Since I was working on a cardiology Step-down unit then, it felt totally surreal. Why did I keep attracting the same type over and over???

There is someone special out there for you! Keep looking! Good Luck!

[YRAP Mom]

I'm so sorry Max didn't work out but you took the exact right approach by thinking through the positive and negative aspects of taking on his issues. We can't rescue all of them but you're nearby enough to take action if conditions worsen. At least the owner has a real affection for him.

Best of luck with your search. When you find the right one, it will be wonderful.

[pony grandma]

Boy, it's tough. But so is hanging onto them and feeding them for 15+ years and not getting the return for the investment (I have a few here like that for me now). You are young and need to be spending your time and money having the fun part of your life right now. There are a ton more horses around every corner. Good for you to be a smart shopper. We all know how much it hurts.

[ellebeaux]

Oh, that's a bummer because it seems like you have real feelings for the horse.

Is there a way you could free lease the horse for a few months? Say you worked with this horse for a while and got a real feel for how it stood up to more rigorous training. It would benefit the seller by having the horse's fitness and experience improve. You could sign a contract with her to ride the horse x amount of times/week and have the option to buy the horse at $x at the end of the trial. That would still give you time to look for another horse and not commit you to buying the horse if you decided he couldn't perform at the level you wanted.

Just a thought. Guess I'm reluctant to give up on the love story, too!

[Sannois]

I have to say I would have bought him anyway, if the owner would take a grand for him. But then I have heard problems like that and for the price and his mind I would be willing to gamble it. He sounds so awesome.
I am so sorry for you. I think the two of you could have made it work.
But I am the eternal optimist, and I know how hard it is to find your soul mate in a horse! :sadsmile:

[FootPerfect]

Yeah, my vet stressed that she was very concerned about what she saw. And there was a lot more wrong with the horse and his hind end than even I thought there would be.

It's really for the best, I don't have the funds to pay board not get a return on him and I just didn't know what we would have in the end.

My vet breeds race horses and is an Intermediate level event rider in her own right. She's also one of the most intellegent women I have ever met. (We, my barn mates and I) are pretty sure she also has a photographic memory.

The keys things here were the:
~previous injury with a displaced bone that you could see.
~Showing lameness on both hind legs (positive on the flex test) when having only been ridden 1x a week. Not being asked to carry himself.
~Hind feet that paddled so badly when not asked to move with any impulsion.
~A front leg that had a bench knee.

So yes, there was a lot to like in his mind and movement. But I just can't take that risk and I can't save them all.