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View Full Version : Modern Penthalon-Includes Show Jumping!!



RiddleMeThis
Aug. 1, 2008, 02:00 PM
Another semi horsey event...not sure how much coverage it will get, but the modern pentathlon includes show jumping, so try and stay on the look out for that!

lizathenag
Aug. 1, 2008, 02:04 PM
I did a pony club B testing in Southern California right after the LA Olympics and several of the horses had numbers painted on their hooves as they were used in the pentathelon.

I think most of the pentathelon riders treat the horses as machines.

cloudyandcallie
Aug. 1, 2008, 02:08 PM
And someone on this BB has a family member competing. Someone from up north, not down south here.

Frank B
Aug. 1, 2008, 03:41 PM
These can be a hoot! They're required to ride an unfamiliar horse and some know little about horses, so the horses gladly take advantage of them.

It's often been said that it's a good thing they don't carry their pistol when they ride! :lol:

Actually, it's an air pistol. You'd think since it's of a military background they'd use something a bit more realistic, like a .45 ACP (with or without ivory handles -- thank you George Patton :lol: )

linquest
Aug. 1, 2008, 03:52 PM
It's often been said that it's a good thing they don't carry their pistol when they ride! :lol:

Or their fencing epee! At the lower levels of domestic competition, some athletes will skip the riding entirely.

mayhew
Aug. 1, 2008, 04:34 PM
Oh, so they have a choice to either take the horse for some set of miles, or go by their own manpower?

TBKate
Aug. 1, 2008, 04:37 PM
I actually know a guy competing for the US in pentathalon...and he can ride! Grew up pony clubbing and foxhunting, so he's got a definite edge on a lot of his competitors. I got to see a video of the test rides of the horses that are being used in the Games, and all I can say is that they are the MOST TOLERANT horses I have ever seen. They were jumping no matter how badly the riders bounced on their kidneys or yanked on their mouths (or both!!).

linquest
Aug. 1, 2008, 04:42 PM
No, the riding is a show jumping course. It's probably mandatory for most sanctioned pentathalons. I guess at the lower levels or for junior competitions, some competitors who aren't comfortable with the riding portion (i.e. they're still learning to jump) will just skip it and finish on their score from the other sports. But in that case, they're more likely there just to train rather than to win/place.

imapepper
Aug. 1, 2008, 05:32 PM
At one point in my career, I worked for a barn that trained the US Olympic Penthalon team. I got to ride all of the horses donated to the program until it was determined that they would work for the program and also rode the horses on a regular basis when they needed a break from the program. The athletes have to ride an unfamiliar horse over 18 jumping efforts that include one double combination and one triple combination (15 numbered fences). There is also usually a triple bar and a liverpool. The fences are set at 1.20 meters. I have gotten to prepare a bunch of horses for the competitions and participate in the jury rides where the horses are judged to make sure that they are more or less rideable. If the horse looks like it's a tough ride for a "real" rider, the jury can choose not to accept the horse for the draw. It is a very interesting sport. For the most part, the US riders try very hard to ride decently but most of them rely on their strength to control the horse and try to muscle them around the course. Watching them ride is not for the faint of heart. Although the horses are (for the most part) game, the athletes usually don't have a riding background so there are a ton of gasp-worthy fences. Most of the athletes are chosen for their swimming ability because the coachs feel that it's the hardest skill to teach and a good swim gives the athlete a big advantage. I actually preferred not to watch the ride.

BTW: It was REALLY scary back in the old days. I heard (and have seen photographic evidence) that the athletes were originally required to ride cross country instead of a show jumping course.

copper1
Aug. 1, 2008, 05:38 PM
My vet's son is a member of the team and he grew up in Pony club and was National Champion in the Tetrathalon. He is a rider first and then learned the other sports. I know he has put a lot of effort into the game and I wish him all the best! I think the swimming and the riding will be televised on the 18th. I need to check to get an exact time.

linquest
Aug. 1, 2008, 05:43 PM
I wonder how they can modify the riding to make it less stressful for the horses (and riders!)? Maybe they can change it to dressage- still a discipline with a military background!

Foxtrot's
Aug. 1, 2008, 05:44 PM
The US actually campaigns for runners and swimmers as they are the endurance events, compared to the technical events. BTW a lot
of the pentathletes come through Pony Club or other equestrian background, so it is not fair to tar them all with the same brush.
Lesson horses have to put up with a bit, too, but they serve a purpose when you think how many people started out at a riding school.

imapepper
Aug. 1, 2008, 06:46 PM
The US actually campaigns for runners and swimmers as they are the endurance events, compared to the technical events. BTW a lot
of the pentathletes come through Pony Club or other equestrian background, so it is not fair to tar them all with the same brush.
Lesson horses have to put up with a bit, too, but they serve a purpose when you think how many people started out at a riding school.

But lesson horses don't have to put up with it over 1.20 meter fences ;) I do think that the horses in the program have a pretty cushy life otherwise but the competition is a bit rough to watch. And when you are personally involved with the horse (groom them, put in training rides, take care of them if they are sick or injured) it's a little harder to watch them have some questionable rides over big fences because you have to get them confident again after those rides.

Also, I haven't had anything to do with it for about 12 years :) Maybe the athletes coming up now do have a Pony Club background....but they didn't when I was working with them.

TBKate
Aug. 1, 2008, 08:27 PM
Copper1, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same guy! Are you a Sam fan too? ;)

My vet's son is a member of the team and he grew up in Pony club and was National Champion in the Tetrathalon. He is a rider first and then learned the other sports. I know he has put a lot of effort into the game and I wish him all the best! I think the swimming and the riding will be televised on the 18th. I need to check to get an exact time.

copper1
Aug. 3, 2008, 01:38 PM
TBkate-YEP! Sam Sacksen! I have watched him grow up and it is so cool that someone from tiny little Somerset, PA has made it to the Olympics! He is a young man with a great work ethic and truly deserves this great opportunity! I am sure the better part of Spruce Run Equine clients will be watching tv for the event!

Everythingbutwings
Aug. 4, 2008, 10:07 AM
From "Modern Pentathlon" dot com:



Riding - Equestrian Show Jumping The riding event (equestrian show jumping) included in the modern pentathlon competition involves jumping over hurdles of a maximum height of 1.20m.
The hurdles course has a length of 350 to 450m length, and includes 12 hurdles (15 jumps) with one double and one triple jump.
Athletes compete with horses provided by the organisers, which are selected through a random draw 20 minutes prior to the commencement of the event.
For warm-up and preparation purposes, athletes are allowed to ride their allocated horse for 20 minutes and to have up to five trial jumps in the auxiliary exercise area provided for the purpose.
The athlete has a specific time limit within which to compete the course, according to its length.
A time limit is set for the course, equating to one minutes for every 350m in length.
A fault free ride within "the standard time" ( 1 min - 1.17 min) is worth 1200 points.
For each mistake the rider loose points:
Every knock down gives 28 points deduction.
Every refusal or disobedience to jump gives 40 points. But any disobedience leading to the knocking down of an obstacle gives 60 points deduction. After two refusals to jump the rider must try to jump the next obstacle. For every not jumped obstacle the athlete loose 80 points.
A fall of the rider from the horse or both fall gives 40 points. After two falls the riding will be terminated and the rider will have a further 300 points deduction.
Every second above the standard time gives 4 points in deduction. The maximum time is the standard time + 60 s. If the ride is slower than the maximum time the riding is terminated and the rider gives minus 240 points and also a deduction of 80 points for each obstacle he didn't jump.
Competitors can walk the course before riding begins.
Riders must stay between the flags marking the course and must jump the obstacles in order.
Riders must wear protective headgear and a riding jacket and can use a whip and spurs, but hoods and blinkers are prohibited.

seeuatx
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:43 AM
Wow. I did not know that Sam Sacksen was going to the Olympics. Just Wow. I spent my teen years in Brush Run Pony Club, and shared camp with Rolling Rock. I remember him from camp and rallies, and his dad did the PPE on my old horse. I also had a big old crush on him for about 2 hours when I was 13.... ;).

Go Sam!!!

tx3dayeventer
Aug. 4, 2008, 12:09 PM
At one point in my career, I worked for a barn that trained the US Olympic Penthalon team. I got to ride all of the horses donated to the program until it was determined that they would work for the program and also rode the horses on a regular basis when they needed a break from the program. The athletes have to ride an unfamiliar horse over 18 jumping efforts that include one double combination and one triple combination (15 numbered fences). There is also usually a triple bar and a liverpool. The fences are set at 1.20 meters. I have gotten to prepare a bunch of horses for the competitions and participate in the jury rides where the horses are judged to make sure that they are more or less rideable. If the horse looks like it's a tough ride for a "real" rider, the jury can choose not to accept the horse for the draw. It is a very interesting sport. For the most part, the US riders try very hard to ride decently but most of them rely on their strength to control the horse and try to muscle them around the course. Watching them ride is not for the faint of heart. Although the horses are (for the most part) game, the athletes usually don't have a riding background so there are a ton of gasp-worthy fences. Most of the athletes are chosen for their swimming ability because the coachs feel that it's the hardest skill to teach and a good swim gives the athlete a big advantage. I actually preferred not to watch the ride.

BTW: It was REALLY scary back in the old days. I heard (and have seen photographic evidence) that the athletes were originally required to ride cross country instead of a show jumping course.

Did this happen to be outside of San Antonio at a barn out by the Rose Palace?

copper1
Aug. 4, 2008, 01:01 PM
Wow. I did not know that Sam Sacksen was going to the Olympics. Just Wow. I spent my teen years in Brush Run Pony Club, and shared camp with Rolling Rock. I remember him from camp and rallies, and his dad did the PPE on my old horse. I also had a big old crush on him for about 2 hours when I was 13.... ;).

Go Sam!!!

WE can all say "we knew him when"!

366474
Aug. 4, 2008, 02:03 PM
Wow! I didn't realize this was an Olympic event. I used to be really pretty good at tetrathlon. Thanks for the info!

JER
Aug. 4, 2008, 08:14 PM
The French modern pentathlon team, not content to merely swimshootfenceriderun, wrote and recorded a pop song about their event.

How's that for Olympic spirit?

"T'as les jambes et t'as la tĂȘte" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTxOL9jYxc) (They made a video too.)

imapepper
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:00 PM
Did this happen to be outside of San Antonio at a barn out by the Rose Palace?

It might have been ;) I worked for a surly old guy and rode all of his sale horses until they were either deemed safe for the working students or talented enough for the head trainer :) It had it's moments but for the most part was a great learning experience :winkgrin:

billiebob
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:22 PM
My very first riding instructor did modern pentathalon! She was a very good rider who competed sidesaddle regularly. She never made it to the Olympics though. I remember running with her and thinking "is this how fast she goes when she races because if I can keep up with her that's way too slow." That may have hurt her chances somewhat. ETA Trust me I'm definitely not fast. AT ALL.

Lostboy
Aug. 6, 2008, 12:38 PM
The pentathlon course is a grand prix style course, set at 4 ft.spreads to 6ft,iirc. usually includes a couple cross country style elements and can be like 30 fences. the riders draw a horse get 5 min hack and literally a couple warm up jumps.. typically Not set at 4'. they then go in and have to do the course..

Coaches observe all the horses go at a schooling show before hand and can take all the notes they want about how the horses go so the rider has a small idea ahead of time about which jumps their horse had trouble at. Horses that consistantly stop or are dangerous are eliminated before the draw.

But basically it's jump a tough 4' course on a horse you don't know... which many people showing on the H/J circuit never have to do.. and naturally 3 stops U are out.. fall is out.. of the entire event.. riding used to be first event and so eliminated many competitors.. not sure if it still is but compared to 20 years ago ALL of the riders are significally better..

the rider gets points based on his course time , the points from all events get totaled and then there is a long run (on foot,lol) at the end with the runners staggered by their point totals.. first one across the finish line is the overall winner of the event. and yes this part can really turn in to a horse race ! (pun intended)

Both recent Olympics in the States offered a completely different set of horses for athletes to hack before the games just to get practice time in.. so figure over 100 horses just to offer this event

BTW not so easy to come up with 60+ horses that pretty much can pack for this event.. kudos to all the trainers and riders that pre-school and get the horses ready


IMA: I am guessing you rode with Col Russell ? he was a pentathlete himself as was Gen Patton.. back in the day
and yes his barn is still near Rose Palace altho I believe the Pent training biz has moved to Colorado Springs.

imapepper
Aug. 6, 2008, 01:30 PM
The pentathlon course is a grand prix style course, set at 4 ft.spreads to 6ft,iirc. usually includes a couple cross country style elements and can be like 30 fences. the riders draw a horse get 5 min hack and literally a couple warm up jumps.. typically Not set at 4'. they then go in and have to do the course..

Coaches observe all the horses go at a schooling show before hand and can take all the notes they want about how the horses go so the rider has a small idea ahead of time about which jumps their horse had trouble at. Horses that consistantly stop or are dangerous are eliminated before the draw.

But basically it's jump a tough 4' course on a horse you don't know... which many people showing on the H/J circuit never have to do.. and naturally 3 stops U are out.. fall is out.. of the entire event.. riding used to be first event and so eliminated many competitors.. not sure if it still is but compared to 20 years ago ALL of the riders are significally better..

the rider gets points based on his course time , the points from all events get totaled and then there is a long run (on foot,lol) at the end with the runners staggered by their point totals.. first one across the finish line is the overall winner of the event. and yes this part can really turn in to a horse race ! (pun intended)

Both recent Olympics in the States offered a completely different set of horses for athletes to hack before the games just to get practice time in.. so figure over 100 horses just to offer this event

BTW not so easy to come up with 60+ horses that pretty much can pack for this event.. kudos to all the trainers and riders that pre-school and get the horses ready


IMA: I am guessing you rode with Col Russell ? he was a pentathlete himself as was Gen Patton.. back in the day
and yes his barn is still near Rose Palace altho I believe the Pent training biz has moved to Colorado Springs.

I did and I helped get a bunch ready for the Atlanta Olympics. Just a side note....my husband went to Atlanta to ride some of the horses as a prep. He was the first person to fall off in the new arena. And the second person to fall off in the new arena ;) That really amused him at the time :lol:

copper1
Aug. 8, 2008, 07:11 AM
Sam Sacksen has been doing a blog for the local papers that his mom has been sending to me and what a fun read! Very intersting to see the process through the eyes of a competitor!

belambi
Aug. 8, 2008, 07:44 AM
equine influenza caused chaos for Aussie modern pentathletes..basically easies explained by reading this..



the full story

I believe Angie found out THIS MORNING she can start..hope she has her bags packed!
Alex (the male rep) was dissallowed to compete, because EI prevented the showjumping phase from happening in his qualifiers.HOwever..his selection was sanctioned bt the international pentathlon association Remember Alex is AUSTRALIAN now..but used to compete for Kazakhstan..He was the GOLD MEDALIST at Atlanta..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/2291012.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...02/2291801.htm

now..in relation to Angie

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...09/2298793.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...24/2313059.htm

But then dramatically

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...28/2316477.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...29/2317934.htm

and then

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/2321614.htm

hardly the most ideal prep!

belambi
Aug. 8, 2008, 07:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTxOL9jYxc&feature=related

monicabee
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:57 AM
One of the Chinese show jumpers, Zhang Bin, started as a swimmer in their kids training program, then a pentathelete, before getting on the Shangai equestrian team.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsebytes/archives/145422.asp

In my research I found an article about the preparation of the horses for the Pentathalon. They will all be from China, unlike the European horses the Chinese team will be riding.

There is a two year preparation and selection process. I would imagine that after the games they would be in high demand as school horse. There are quite a few riding clubs in China - another show jumper, Li Zhenqiang, owns one - and they are hoping the Olympics will create a surge of interest.

I am really curious to see the horses.

chukkerchild
Aug. 8, 2008, 10:54 PM
WOW. I really want to try this sport. Does anyone know if there are any organizations in Canada?

Foxtrot's
Aug. 8, 2008, 11:01 PM
Go to www.pentathloncanada.ca - links to the provincial bodies, too.

AreYouKidding
Aug. 11, 2008, 10:50 AM
Good luck Sam at the Olympics, he is a nice kid!

FEIwannabe
Aug. 11, 2008, 11:50 AM
The only video I was able to find. Very little jumping going on here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdU0Fu1qmd0) *snark*.

There were some other riders in the pentathalon that were terrifying to watch. I remember there was a Japanese woman, who was practically laying down on the horses back every time she went over a jump. Between jumps her shoulders were swinging wildly from side to side at every stride. I was horrified. It's a miracle she stayed on. The horse was a saint to put up with it.

Tex Mex
Aug. 11, 2008, 02:49 PM
Wow, that video...is he even doing a course or just running at whatever jump comes up first? So crazy. But I appreciate him giving the horse a pat at the end. That horse actually jumped cute a couple times.
I went a GM clinic where some of the pentathathetes rode. I think he helped them a lot. Although he did sternly comment to one of them "You may be a star in other athletic sports, but at this moment you are to behave like a horseman". He was not happy with this guy who wasn't having the easiest time with GMs requests. But I feel bad that they have to jump that high because most of us who ride at that level have been training for many years. Equestrian sports are not easy to just "pick up".

FalseImpression
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:05 PM
love the French song... thank you

When is this event taking place? I'd love to watch and I hope Bold will provide coverage here in Canada..:)

WNT
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:15 PM
If only there wasn't the pesky swimming and running parts. That sounds like a blast! I never did Tetrathalon in PC (I hate running and lap swimming), but I love fencing and shooting as well as riding.

I do wonder about the horses for the competition, though. What a bunch of saints they must be.

flogarty
Aug. 11, 2008, 03:19 PM
My vet's son is a member of the team and he grew up in Pony club and was National Champion in the Tetrathalon. He is a rider first and then learned the other sports. I know he has put a lot of effort into the game and I wish him all the best! I think the swimming and the riding will be televised on the 18th. I need to check to get an exact time.

Are you talking about Sam Saxon?

I was on some teams with him and his brother Ben (at eventing rally, and show jumping rally), and we took our C3 rating together.

copper1
Aug. 11, 2008, 08:05 PM
Yep, Sam Sacksen a graduate member of Rolling Rock PC. The 20th is the MP