Neck reining help

[Megz]

Not sure if this is where i should post this, but i figure there are the most western riders here, and I am training this horse to be a trail/kids horse.

Ok, I have been working with this 4 year old gelding for 2 summers now. He direct reins, but i would really like to teach him to neck rein.

Problem is, I have ridden english most of my riding life, and have no clue where to begin.

Any help whatsoever would be appreciated.

[Overo Kid]

Lay the rein on his neck for a cue while direct reining, using your leg and seat, etc. After a bit, give the neck rein cue first (with leg and seat) with the direct rein a little after--gradually work your way up to giving only the neck cue. Drop the direct rein cue once he's neck reining. Ideally, a neck reining cue is very light--just laying the rein on the horse's neck a couple of inches up from his withers.

Got this on a google search:
http://horses.about.com/od/horsetraining/ht/howtoneckrein.htm

[LookinSouth]

I may not be the most qualified person here but I ride english and taught both my english discipline TB's to neck rein. I personally think neck reining is an extremely useful tool when out riding the trails. Heck I used it alot this past weekend because I took my dressage/event horse out to work cows at a western barn:)

Basically I taught both boys to neck rein by using it quite frequently on trail. Hold your reins in one hand and when you use your leg to ask for a leg yield or turn also move your neck rein hand so that the rein drapes on their neck on the side that your asking. When they complete the leg yield or turn bring your reins back to the center of the neck. You can incorporate direct rein too if they are confused.

I found that it is basically repetition. Work on it everytime you go out for a ride. Afterawhile you will see that the horse will associate the neck rein with your leg pressure and a request to move over or turn. Soon they will learn to "leg yield" just from the neck rein and a small shift of weight.

One thing I've found is some horses learn faster than others. I taught my old TB as a complete beginner after a friend taught me and he caught on in DAYS. That horse had a neck rein to rival any western performance horse!:lol:
My TBX it took a good year or so for him to really respond to just the neck rein. Now he is great though and we were using our neck reining to cut cows this weekend which involved some pretty quick and accurate lateral movements.

hope this helps

[Megz]

Thanks for the suggestions! Great so far, but keep em coming!

I had kind of guessed that repetition and what has been suggested so far would be where to start, but didn't know if there was something else to it.


Thanks!

[Bluey]

Depends on what you call "neck reining".

True western neck reining uses the reins only as a kind of half halt and to indicate direction change to the horse.
Using the rest of the aids is what the horse respond to.

Pulling on the reins one handed to "neck rein" will give you a horse that will point his nose to the outside of the turn and drop the inside shoulder.

Neck reining is not for beginner riders or for horses that are not "finished".

Get thee to a good western trainer and a few lessons on some finished horses.
You get the feel for this and will be one of the better ways you ever spent money.:cool:

[LookinSouth]

.

Pulling on the reins one handed to "neck rein" will give you a horse that will point his nose to the outside of the turn and drop the inside shoulder.



Did anyone say anything about pulling?

I always thought neck reining was the horse responding the to the draped rein brushing against the neck because they were conditioned to the request other aids like leg, seat and weight.

[gabz]

Taking a few lessons wouldn't hurt...

But one of the issues I've seen when people are learning how to neck rein on horses that know how to BE neck reined, is that they pull the reins backwards... this tells the horse to stop forward movement... so be sure to avoid that.

Before the horse can neck rein, it MUST be able to work from seat, thigh, leg cues and you need to be able to ride the horse without a great deal of restraint from the bit.

As you would use a direct rein, pulling back on say the left rein and giving with the right rein, to turn left, it's the opposite with the NR. you lay the rein on the right side of the neck, NEAR the withers and open up the left rein a tiny bit but moving your hand just a little to the left of the horn/center of the horse. Keep your hand down very low. Raising your hand up the neck is used when asking for speed in stock work. And.. look UP and in the direction you want to go (not down at your hand) ... that transmits all down through your body and helps to signal the horse.

You could also use 2 reins at first. one closed, english one for direct rein and the other longer set for the neck reining. Leave the direct rein on the neck unless you need it. Use both briefly at a time if you feel it's necessary.

[Megz]

Depends on what you call "neck reining".

True western neck reining uses the reins only as a kind of half halt and to indicate direction change to the horse.
Using the rest of the aids is what the horse respond to.

Pulling on the reins one handed to "neck rein" will give you a horse that will point his nose to the outside of the turn and drop the inside shoulder.

Neck reining is not for beginner riders or for horses that are not "finished".

Get thee to a good western trainer and a few lessons on some finished horses.
You get the feel for this and will be one of the better ways you ever spent money.:cool:

I guess i should have elaborated on my experience a bit more. I am not a beginner rider. I'm no PSG dressage rider either, but i do know how to use my aids. I probably could benefit from a few lessons, i will see about that.

I have ridden well trained western horses before and neck reined.

so If I am following correctly and want my horse to be trained to "true" neck rein, I should make sure he is understanding my leg and seat aids first. Also please define "finished" horse. I would agree this horse is not finished, but am wondering when you would recommend a horse is ready for neck reining.

[Bluey]

I guess i should have elaborated on my experience a bit more. I am not a beginner rider. I'm no PSG dressage rider either, but i do know how to use my aids. I probably could benefit from a few lessons, i will see about that.

I have ridden well trained western horses before and neck reined.

so If I am following correctly and want my horse to be trained to "true" neck rein, I should make sure he is understanding my leg and seat aids first. Also please define "finished" horse. I would agree this horse is not finished, but am wondering when you would recommend a horse is ready for neck reining.

There is no shame to being a beginner, all of us are from time to time, if we do anything we are not already proficient doing.:yes:

When some English rider tells me they have ridden western and neckreined and ask how to teach a horse to neckrein, as you are doing, I think of the many western riders that tell me they know how to jump because they have jumped.
I ask they show me and their horse jumps, in a western saddle, over one pole at 12" or at best two barrels laying end to end, jumping them back and forth with snaking approaches, at any gait they get the horse going to the jump and pogo sticking over it from any distance they happen to hit.;)

Just as we would expect someone that tells us that they know how to jump to have learned the basics of jumping gymnastics and so much before they even jump a course and can say they can jump, I expect that someone that has really learned to ride western has learned to do more than sit on a western saddle and ride around some.
If someone has really learned to ride in western events (and that is not barrel racing, poles, etc.) they have also learned to hold their hands still and use their bodies to ask the horse in the way western horses are trained.

That is why I said to go learn, because a few good lessons to someone already riding well in the english disciplines would put them up to snuff with western riding, that is technically considerably different, enough to understand then how a "neckreining" horse works and so how to teach it.:cool:

I have seen a western trainer get on a colt for the first time and the colt was turning properly in a way you may call "neckreining" the first few turns he asked of that colt, because the rider knew how to ask any horse to neckrein and had prepared the colt from the ground in the few minutes he worked with him before stepping on him.

Without seeing someone ride, this is all a guess, no more or less.:confused:

[Megz]

Bluey, Thank you for all your advice. I am going to look into a few lessons, as it has been years since i rode western. I learned to ride western, and was in 4-h. I did trail courses and western pleasure (addmittedly on an already very well trained mare who was an ex reiner).

[Overo Kid]

Neck reining isn't rocket science. Go to the link I posted above, follow the instructions, and train your horse. No need for lessons and trainers and roundpens. It's just not that big of a deal.

[Bluey]

Bluey, Thank you for all your advice. I am going to look into a few lessons, as it has been years since i rode western. I learned to ride western, and was in 4-h. I did trail courses and western pleasure (addmittedly on an already very well trained mare who was an ex reiner).

Then you already should know how to handle reins in a true neck reining way.
Do the same to train your horse you were doing to train your pleasure horse. Start walking on a straight line and as you pick up a little on the slack as a kind of half halt and, keeping your hand still then, keep asking with your outside leg as you have your weight on the outside of the turn.
Ask only for a 1/8 turn, two or three steps only and forward, straight ahead and repeat.
Then make a circle and repeat, then a square figure eight with 1/4 turns.
Then go back to a straight line and ask for 1/2 turn around.

Always do a few and quit and stand there, repositioning yourself, then forward again and when you have impulsion again, which at first may take trotting a half a circle, then back to walk and pick up, hold and use your leg, etc.

Your horse should start catching on the presignal of the reins to pay attention and the indication of the other aids for what to do next.

Try it a few days and see how it goes, since you already know the feeling you are after.

Some people move their hand around to neckrein and so open that inside shoulder up to fall into the turn, so try to avoid that, keep the horse working properly thru the changes of direction and yourself in the middle, don't collapse to the inside.

Why? Because to get that control of the horse's body while in western type self carriage will permit you later to ask for a canter depart off that presignal, hip over but then forward with a cluck.

This can get you to feel like a pretzel, about like tap dancing, rubbing your belly, patting your head and blowing bubbles, all at the same time.
That is why a trainer sorting you out thru this in a few lessons can get you and your horse so much further and correctly along, than keep trying to reinvent the wheel by ourselves can.

Some say that true neck reining is connecting your intentions to your horse's back feet thru your little rein signals and seat and leg, so he can move in the most effective manner, doing as you ask, be it forward, backwards or in any one direction, without you having to plow rein for that.
The better the training, the lighter and smoother the horse works for you, moving without any resistences anywhere, like he is reading your mind.
The down side is that, since he is doing exactly what you ask, you need to be very precise with what and how you ask for anything.:)

[goodhors]

Very well put Bluey. I enjoyed reading that explanation and thought you hit it right on the head about the Western side of things. There is a lot of technicality to it, done right.

Lots of levels of neckreining that folks use, correct and incorrectly done, like your jumping explantion. Yeah, it IS all jumping, yet not the same.

The OP will do best with some Western lessons and should have it easy after that. Learning how to ask horse correctly, is the hardest part. Gimmick methods not accepted.

We use a form of neckreining with all our ridden horses, but we want to feel the mouth all the time. Light contact, just need a touch to keep me and the horse happy. Because they know how to accept the other body signals, it appears they neckrein as lightly as any Western horse. We just don't throw away all the bit contact, keep the head in front of the body and don't drop the inside shoulder. Sure fun to watch someone's mouth drop open when the 17H horse does that quick rollback to change direction. I think the horses enjoy it as well. I like all the good features of both English and Western riding, expect the horse to be able to do them when asked!