Can junior riders accept $ to help pay for expenses?

[MediaMD]

My 17 yr old is hoping to go to the NAJYRCs next year and desperately needs to earn money to pay for the staggering expense of regular lessons with an excellent trainer, and traveling to and competing in qualifying shows. I wish we could afford to just pay the freight and not have to depend on her contributions, but we are not well off and the expenses, as many have said, can run into the thousands of dollars.

She has been approached about helping a local AA who has a young horse about tuning it up for her on a regular basis and also acting as a ground person for her. Another person has asked her to ride some horses for her and also help give instruction to the beginners in her barn. In the past she was able to trade out lessons for work for her trainer but that situation no longer exists since we have moved away and now must trailer in a considerable distance. It wouldn't be significant money but any amount would help and she's a lot better at riding than she is babysitting or waitressing.

If I read the USEF rules correctly, she is still a Junior/Yr until age 22 regardless of renumeration after which she would declare open rather than AA if she continued to accept payment of any kind. (I know it varies between disciplines but only care about dressage classification.)

However, because I do NOT want to in any way jeopardize her status for the NAJYRC competitions, I am humbling approaching the many experts on this board to set me straight on this issue before she does something that will get her into trouble.

Thanks much ya'll.

[dressagediosa]

You are correct. She will need to declare herself a professional, or Open, rider with USEF, but this does not affect Jr/YR status with USDF.

[ridgeback]

I think they can in the hunter/jumper world..or at least it's done all the time:)

[MediaMD]

Thanks much. Probably a non-issue as it turns out for now, but I appreciate the feedback in case another opportunity comes her way.

Suzanne

[Lindie]

It is my understanding anyone under 18 is considered a junior and they cannot declare amateur or professional status until they reach their 18th birthday.

[preferred]

I think they can in the hunter/jumper world..or at least it's done all the time:)

No. A junior is never allowed to take payment for any catch rides. Juniors are not allowed to teach either, however...junior in H/J is up to 18 as of Jan 1 that show year.

I'm curious as to how those camp kid "helpers" get compensated:confused:

[preferred]

Best resource for this topic is Lendon Grey herself. She holds a forum at her young riders festival that discusses how these YR can obtain sponsorships without jeopardizing their riding futures.

[yaya]

The OP is correct.

In dressage, Juniors/Young Riders may accept payment for teaching/training. There are no restrictions, and NAJYRC riders do it a lot to help pay for the trip (and to jumpstart their pro careers).

It's only AFTER 21 that you must declare either Ammy (no payments) or Open (can get paid).

[Renae]

No. A junior is never allowed to take payment for any catch rides. Juniors are not allowed to teach either, however...junior in H/J is up to 18 as of Jan 1 that show year.

I'm curious as to how those camp kid "helpers" get compensated:confused:

Your wrong. 17 and unders can get paid to do anything, including train and give lessons. 17 and unders are always amateurs, even if they are getting paid for training/lessons, and they do not have to declare themselves as professionals, in fact they can't. This completly changes the first December 1 on which they are 18, however!

[dressagediosa]

It's only AFTER 21 that you must declare either Ammy (no payments) or Open (can get paid).

Just to clarify, it is at 18 where a rider must declare Amateur or Open, and adhere to those rules, but everyone competing in dressage under 21 is a Jr/YR, regardless of Open/Ammy status. For example, I declared myself an Open rider at age 19, but still rode in the Jr/YR divisions.

[Evalee Hunter]

No. A junior is never allowed to take payment for any catch rides. Juniors are not allowed to teach either, however...junior in H/J is up to 18 as of Jan 1 that show year.

I'm curious as to how those camp kid "helpers" get compensated:confused:

(1) As already said by Renae, you are totally wrong with this information.

(2) There is a specific exemption for teaching at a summer camp AFTER the age of 18; e.g., an amateur may teach at a summer camp & remain an amateur, as long as teaching riding is only part of what they are paid for.

[freestyle2music]

Don't you think that you (all) should do something about this. Let me first tell you that I don't know any country where they have these rules. Junior en Youngriders shouldn't be blocked to spread all the things they've learned from the toptrainers to lower level riders. The only way to get the circle round is to let these riders teach and train others as much as possible. I truly believe that this whole AMATEUR-STATUS thing is holding back the USA to climb up the dressage pyramide.

Theo

[ridgeback]

1992 Barcelona
GOLD Germany
SILVER Netherlands
BRONZE United States

1996 Atlanta
GOLD Germany
SILVER Netherlands
BRONZE United States

2000 Sydney
GOLD Germany
SILVER Netherlands
BRONZE United States

2004 Athens
GOLD Germany
SILVER Spain
BRONZE United States

I know in the hunter/jumper world most junior riders get gifts which can be the same as giving them money..

[yaya]

Please read DR119.3:

3. For purposes of competition in the Dressage Division: Individuals are eligible as Juniors until the end of the calendar year in which they reach the age of 18. Individuals are eligible as Young Riders from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach the age of 16 until the end of the calendar year in which they reach the age of 21. Competitors shall compete as Adults from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach the age of 22. Individuals possessing current amateur certification are only eligible as Adult Amateurs from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach age 22.

Dressage is different from the other disciplines.

In dressage you CANNOT declare Amateur status until the age of 22.

So yes, after 18 they will be Senior Open members of USEF, but they may still ride in Jr/YR classes and they may accept payment.

They CANNOT ride in Adult Ammy classes under any circumstances until the age of 22, because by dressage rules, they are neither an Adult nor an Amateur until 22.

The 18-22 years are a big black hole of confusion with USEF, especially since the dressage rules differ from the other disciplines.

[MediaMD]

(Thanks everyone who responded-- I hope the info has been helpful to others in the same boat who actually HAVE read the rules, but were still unsure exactly what was legal and what wasn't. I'm straight now and appreciate the clarification.)

However, on a related topic, can anyone explain why this rule and other important rules are written by lawyers instead of level headed judges, ULRs and experts who just want to protect the integrity of the sport?
The whole amateur vs professional morass is just one of the many unnecessarily mind-numbing, garbled directives that govern our sport, regardless of discipline; and if you accidentally misread a rule you can be eliminated or not allowed to compete, or have championships taken away!
I'm not talking about stuff that is obvious like a whip rule, illegal equipment, or a forbidden substance, but even the process of trying to get a horse an FEI Passport is like being nibbled to death by mice...

Honestly, I wish the FEI and the USEF would write their rules less "backasswardy" and more straightforward. ie You can do this. This is forbidden. Baddy bing.
Instead, so much of the time you have to read the rules multiple times to get a true sense of the meaning.

It's like reading one of those truth tables and syllogisms in Logic class: This is true if it's not false. All of this is true some of the time; some of this is false all of the time. This is always true. This is always false. Unless there is an exception. See rule DR 125-6a. aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrg!

Any judges or TDs want to weigh in on this topic?? Are the FEI and USEF rule books eventually going to run to hundreds of pages like the US Tax Code and we'll never be able to simplify it again? Or is it possible to rein in the lawyers and revise the rule books to something a normal busy AA, trainer or parent of a Junior could understand and follow in a straightforward manner?

(I'm a professional writer and occasionally have re-written technical material so that the information can be understood by those not in the industry or not yet expert ie for advertising or training lower level employees. I would be willing to volunteer time to help re-write these rule books to a simpler version of the basic do's and don'ts and let the TDs deal with the cases that require a more in depth problem solved if there were any sort of groundswell movement to do so.)