very basic question regarding getting horse off forehand

[baythoroughbred]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the dressage board and somewhat new to COTH. This is a very elementary question but I mainly ride hunter/jumper and my horse is very much on the forehand (he's an OTTB). He really bulks up in the front and I am determined to start getting him using his hind end. I should say that we are really just starting out with his training. I got him off the track and he had to have surgery so last year he barely did anything.

I do have access to hills but he's still green outside of an arena setting and I plan on getting him nice and calm so we can do hill work.

I have also been doing transitions from trot to walk. Lots of transitions. I feel him drag his hind end under him, he's not really coming under in his hind end.

Please give me some other exercises that are great for getting him to learn to use his hind end. Sorry if this is too basic for this board, but I appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[asanders]

Just one suggestion, I'm sure others will follow.

The downward transistion work is a good idea, but the transition has to start from a balanced gait for it to do any good. Could this be part of the problem?
Try using a combination of figures and transitions (and don't overdo the transitions). Use the figures (circles, serpentines, etc. to get more balanced trot, and only ask for the walk when you feel he has it 'right'

[BaroquePony]

It shouldn't be too basic for this board :)

Downward and upward transitions can help a horse become more engaged, but they need to be done carefully. The horse should not get stiff as you do these. The horse needs to be ridden forward into the downward transitions.

If you know how to do a half-halt using your seat, then the whole process is much easier. Tuck your seat for just an instant and go forward.

The half-halt is basically half of a halt :yes: and then ride forward. That alone helps engage the hindquarters.

The downward transitions from trot to walk and walk to halt should not take forever even in the beginning. A stride or two, mayber three at first. Same with the upward transitions from halt to walk and walk to trot.

As you and your horse get better at it and get more conditioning doing it, then you can begin to demand a quicker transtion. Trot to halt in one or two strides. Halt to trot in one stride.

Your goal is to develop "crisp" precise transitions.

When you ride your horse forward into the downward transition, you close your hands BUT you continue to ride the hindquarters forward into the halt using your leg aids. Then your horse will stop with his legs engaged under him and he will be ready to move off from the halt to trot instantly.

Canter to trot and trot to canter, go for the precise transitions ... no straggling strides or rushing or falling into the canter. This takes some time to develop but you must start somewhere.

All of these transitions should be done with your horse's spine being elastic. No screeching halts or braced stiff stuff.

Better to allow some straggling strides in the beginning, but ask for more each time as you progress.

Remember to ride forward into the downward transtions.

Edited to add: and the 20 meter circle. It gets the horse to engage the insde hind leg in order to balance, yet it is a very quieting exercise. Of course do it both ways. Figure eights etc..

[merrygoround]

Be sure when you do your downward transition that you are asking with your seat first, keeping your legs on, then closing your fingers. Keeping the legs on, and using the hand softly last keeps the forehand from stopping first, and driving into the ground. So it is "forward into halt". Forward into the walk. :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

And remember, the horse must become strong enough and balanced enough behind so that he can lighten his forehand. And this takes time, especially for a guy coming back off surgery. Like merrgoround said, forward first!! I think with TBs, forward isn't so much the issue as straightness and balance.

Good luck!

[BaroquePony]

Originally posted by merrygoround:

asking with your seat first, keeping your legs on, then closing your fingers

:yes:

[baythoroughbred]

thanks everyone for the advice on transitions. That helps a lot. I know we are doing the transitions, but we are not doing them correctly.

Any other exercises that would be good for us to work on?

He's a really fast learner too and I have to mix things up or he anticipates. I know this is going to take time and lots of training, thanks for all of your input.

[BaroquePony]

Serpentines are excellent for working on getting a smooth change of rein.

Teach him the turn on the forehand if you haven't already.

[Tilly]

Transitions, transitions, transitions. Make him sensitive to your aids, and make sure you have a balanced [insert gait] and that he's paying attention to you before you ask for an up or down transition. You can do transitions within the gait, and that will help too, i.e. a collected canter up to a medium canter then back to a collected canter. Also, you might try taking a few dressage lessons. It takes time to teach the horse to be balanced and to carry himself, but it sounds like you're off to a good start! :)

[slc2]

...I mainly ride hunter/jumper and my horse is very much on the forehand (he's an OTTB). He really bulks up in the front...I got him off the track..he had to have surgery so last year he barely did anything.

I do have access to hills but he's still green outside of an arena setting and I plan on getting him nice and calm so we can do hill work.

I have also been doing transitions from trot to walk. Lots of transitions. I feel him drag his hind end under him, he's not really coming under in his hind end.

--Hill work can help a horse some, and is good exercise, but the exercises done with dressage horses in the ring develop all the muscles more progressively, and teach the horse to 'engage' his legs (put them more toward the midline of his body).

--Improving the hind quarters has 3 phases. 1. preparatory suppleness. 2. developing pushing power 3. developing carrying power

--An example of suppleness is when the horse can put his hind leg more toward the midline of his body in a leg yield. His hind legs are more flexible (supple).

--An example of pushing power is when the horse thrusts himself across the ground in a lengthening of stride at the trot.

--An example of carrying power is when the horse steps strongly under his body with a leg that bends at the hock to take more of the horse's body weight, almost like you stepping on a stair on a staircase.

--For starters, exercises like leg yield and circles can get him more supple and start the building process by getting him to bend in the body and put a little load on his inside hind leg which has to take more weight and step over under his body in leg yield and just support the bend in the circle - keep turning and going in the other direction so each hind legs gets a rest, works, gets a rest.

--Work at the posting trot on a circle, changing your diagonal, can help to even up the hind legs, so they both push the same. Changing diagonals every 5 strides on a circle, then circling the other way and changing every 5 strides, makes the hind legs stronger and more alike in how they push and bend.

--An additional exercise is going on a 20 meter circle, then turn the other way, make a 10 m circle in the opposite direction. Use a stronger more ground covering trot on the larger circle.

--Later, exercises are needed to improve his pushing power. Going promptly from a walk to a trot improves pushing power, if you make him do it very promptly. Doing that on a circle is harder, and can continue the building process.

--Later in building pushing power, lengthenings become important.

--Further on, you start to develop a very basic carrying type of strength, and this can be done by trotting, halting, reining back only 1-2 steps to position the hind legs, and then trotting promptly forward.

[Valentina_32926]

To keep his mind busy but help develop the carrying power in his hind leg start introducing lateral movements - start with the leg yield (can start on the ground then under saddle).

The other suggestions above are also great.
When I HH I also push down into my stirrups at same time as HH. pretty soon that's the largest clue to the horse, so they don't get as tight with the leg/hand at the same time. (And forces me to use less hand more seat :yes:.)

[sm]

In addition to the exercises already mentioned, cavellettis (ground poles) also helps get the hind legs under.

Lay down five or six poles in succession, and trot over. You have to play with the width between the poles to match his stride, typically five feet is a good place to start. You could also lay them out randomly and incorporate it with circles and serpentines to keep him mentally engaged while you are building muscle. Something like a game, and make sure he can win at this game so he becomes more relaxed and confident... the more relaxed he is the easier it is to supple his back...

Also, if you have already jumped low jumps with him, place a ground pole AFTER the jump so he is not allowed to stay on his forehand after he lands.

It takes a lot of time to build in suppleness in the back, esp if he is older. And of course especially if he isn't relaxed or if the flatwork work itself builds tension in him. That's why keeping it a fun game, with a sense of rewards and accomplishment, helps.

Of course too, whatever xercises you do in one direction do equally in the other. You will find he works better in one direction, the point is to develop both equally. Keep it short and sweet, he will try but it is impossible for him to succeed without the muscles. So ask, then accept what he has to give you that day, then switch exercises. Do not dwell on failure -- he needs to build confidence and relaxation to ultimately succeed.

Best of luck! In some ways I envy you, I would like to work with an OTTB greenie again...