A colt that might get noticed in the dressage arena

[slc2]

[link removed]

[siegi b.]

Why would it?

[Griffyn]

I know nothing about the sport but hes darling.

[egontoast]

interesting, huh, siegi;)

[arnika]

Ha ha ha, slc. :lol:

His movement is reminiscent of some of the GP horses around lately.

[petitefilly]

Dressage Today recently had an article about Hackneys and there presence in dressage. I see no reason why a properly trained horse such as this would not do well in a ring. All horses have the ability if one wishes to work hard enough with them. :):):):)

The first thing anyone would see would be the high whites! He has "presence" for sure.

[slc2]

I was just noticing the markings, especially on the face. I don't think I ever saw a marking shaped like that.

Dressage is for all breeds, except Hackneys? Actually quite a few of them have done well. Someone here shows Hackney crosses, I can't remember who.

[Sabovee]

Not to be a party pooper... but... He's a lovely looking colt, and his trot is nice, but you buy a dressage horse for it's walk first and canter second. The trot is the gait you can improve the most through proper training. The pieces of canter I saw left a lot to be desired.

Lovely markings! He's also incredibly tolerant of the football dogs that are begging to be trampled. If that was my stallion both those dogs would be pancakes.

[JackSprats Mom]

More importantly what the heck is that fat little white round thing at the horses feet? please don't tell me a dog :lol:

[MelantheLLC]

More importantly what the heck is that fat little white round thing at the horses feet? please don't tell me a dog :lol:

I'm afraid it's a cross btw a jack russell and a great pyrenees. ;)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I'm afraid it's a cross btw a jack russell and a great pyrenees. ;)

Well, maybe we should see how well this one does in the dressage arena?

[Hoofprince in Mud]

I was just noticing the markings, especially on the face. I don't think I ever saw a marking shaped like that.

Dressage is for all breeds, except Hackneys? Actually quite a few of them have done well. Someone here shows Hackney crosses, I can't remember who.

He is for sale, are you thinking of buying him SLC? He would be an interesting project for you.

Thus offering you the chance to proving his merit as a dressage mount to the world.

[Donella]

WHY do people like that own dogs?

[hitchinmygetalong]

Pretty fancy package, though I find the white, um, distracting.

[edit]

[cuatx55]

I like hackneys (from the little I've read) and see an awesome cross with an arab....I would definitlely look at this guy if I was horse shopping. He looks well balanced and the back seems soft and easy to sit. I like the dutch harness horse and hackney crossed with a nice polish arab...
this horse looks like he has too many white markings (though I love some color)...he reminds me of a paint I know, Might need to re-check the bloodlines...

[saje]

I want the judge to be looking at the horse's way of going and the quality of the training and the test overall, I too think the high whites and the face markings are distracting.

He's cute, and would definitely make a fun ride or drive, but I don't think he's anything to write home about dressage-wise.

[slc2]

Don't you know these jack russells are trained 'demo dogs' taught to move horses for sale dvds? Where's the usual lecture against wrapping horses in bubble wrap, keeping them in a stall and depriving them of normal life experiences? :lol:

You can't evaluate a canter when a horse is playing around in its paddock.

I think we may see different breeds as we wish to, rather than as they really are. If I had said the horse was a <insert favorite breed here> that I found abused and starved at auction for 50 dollars, that a classical dressage rider from the Portugese school of dressage spotted and wanted to use to challenge the international Warmblood Junta, I may have gotten a different reaction - LOL.

Actually, many of the horses shown here as prospects have many more negative points than this little guy and get much more praise. Me thinks a little breed prejudice is present here! Hackneys are very strong, active horses, with a reputation for iron legs and feet.

They have a temperament that is very active and sensitive and is sometimes compared to a Thoroughbred or Arab.

And we have many posters who criticize time and again 'those who are not sensitive enough to handle our great breeds' and hold themselves up as superior horsemen because they have these breeds. But I guess that only applies to certain breeds?

Hackneys have a lift to the knee reminiscent of baroque horses, and we are told time again again here that baroque horses are 'the original dressage horse', 'more suitable to dressage', 'generous', etc.

Just because a horse lifts his knees doesn't make him a bad prospect. And, just because a horse has markings doesn't make him a bad prospect. I don't think a decent judge would be 'distracted' by any markings on any horse. Only the railbirds would be.

Each type of horse has pluses and minuses.

A horse built more on the forehand, with low action, deep chest, deep shoulder, long lowset neck and slight hindquarter has many problems in dressage, even at the lower levels...many, many such horses are shown here and praised highly, though they may stop at the lowest levels with leg problems caused by the weight on the forehand - or simply be able to go no further than first level. All the work to balance the horse - and it's very hard work, may just wind up to a big struggle in the end with very little progress.

A horse with a higher action may need more stretching and suppling work, but that type has advantages too.

[saje]

Where's the rambling-incessantly-on-irrelevant-tangents smiley?

Blah blah blah and back on ignore it goes...

:sleepy:

[slc2]

well look at it this way, i think similarly of much of what you post, but usually just say 'bless your heart!'

[exvet]

All snarkiness aside, I would like to discuss the merits/conformation of this colt. Personally I like him but he would not be one that I would purchase as a dressage prospect with hopes of moving very far up the levels. I actually had a very similarly marked colt (I happened to like his markings and don't find them distracting but respect the opposite opinion 'cause I also love plain brown wrapper types as well). Though mine was a different breed, the resemblance and way of moving is uncanny. I trained/rode/showed my guy up through second level and then sold him on to a PC rider. The reason being is that like this colt his knee action came all from the elbow more or less...... Look at the way this guys angle runs from his scapula to his humerus and elbow and then watch it in motion. I see no inclination for him to truly reach through his shoulder. He comes up well behind but I would predict that despite proper training this guy is going to find it a challenge to demonstrate the lengthenings that a judge is going to reward. This guy is bred to cover ground efficiently with a pretty eye-popping trot. He does so very, very well but WITHOUT lengthening his frame or reach. And looking at how is doesn't use his back or shoulder at liberty [at least here] I think (having gone down that path with a horse that had a hell of a work ethic and a true desire to please) that it could be a very long and frustrating road. I would be singing a different tune if his elbow was set just a few inches more forward (thus a different angle between scapula/humerus/elbow) which would allow/encourage more length of stride or use of that shoulder. Of course I realize that all I have looked at is a few moments of time in a restricted area. His temperament appears to be saintly BTW. Again I don't have a problem with knee at all and like this colt for what he is but have worked with a breed that I believe has helped me develop my eye and discern movement such that I think I can determine if a coachy mover, if you will, can excel easily in dressage with the right training versus those who may have the heart and work ethic but would still find it a challenge. Now I'm not as worthy as the rest of you or as knowledgeable but would like to see if instead of the cat calls and back biting if you all agree or have other real reasons for finding fault with this guy (not the breed).

[saje]

Exvet you said it all very well, and I agree with you totally. It's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, only I was too lazy (need another cuppa tea) to type it all out.

I think he's really cute and looks like he could be a lot of fun do do various things including lower level dressage, but I think the only thing that'll get him really noticed in the ring is his markings, and that's not why I ride and show.

Some small part of me has always wanted to learn to drive so I could have a fancy pair o' Hackneys and go smartly down the road with them :)

[Equibrit]

WHY do people like that own dogs?


People like what?

[STF]

Sad to say, but that front end movement is what seems to score these days. Thing is, that horse will fall out in the canter work, and well...... upper level is mostly canter work, so.............. knees up dont always means hind end under. ;)

[Equibrit]

Tell that to the FEI judges!

[STF]

People like what?

I think she means, that chase the horses around.
Our dogs would get snatched up by their necks if they chased the horses. Big, big no, no. We have mutts mostly, but they know when I say "back off, or lay down, or get out of the barn".... they LISTEN.
My barn manager has two Boarder Collies. One was her competition dog and is VERY well trained. The other is young and learning, but smart.
Anyway, our dogs dont chase, or they get in a crap load of trouble.

[STF]

Tell that to the FEI judges!

Think about it, how many of those high knee movers that we see in the inspections, young horse, etc - make it up the levels? Hummm.......

[Equibrit]

I didn't see any people chasing the horse around!
But - if they didn't own the dogs, what kind of people would they be?

[~Freedom~]

He sure would be difficult to match up in pairs!

[Equibrit]

Think about it, how many of those high knee movers that we see in the inspections, young horse, etc - make it up the levels? Hummm.......


AVG comes to mind.

[slc2]

Some of the best riders and breeders I know are notoriously lax with their dogs at shows, at home, when traveling to other barns for lessons. I dislike it intensely, but it doesn't relate directly to the quality of their horses or horse care.

The second video of this guy is even better (I've gotten used to how much hackney horses change from 1-3 yrs, i think it's even more than warmbloods). The proportions have gotten better, the back doesn't look as long, the neck is shaping up, and the horse did a gorgeous, balanced sequence of flying changes where he went one direction, did a perfect change, changed directions, did a perfect clean change, a number of times.

I think the canter is particularly balanced, and I wouldn't worry about the extended trot regardless of how his front legs go right now - a correct extention using the back and hind quarter can be trained by correctly gymnasticizing the horse.

I understand what exvet's saying about angles, but despite the angles, i see a fine reach in the front and a lot of very athletic movement and changes of direction - many horses break traditional rules and still have very good mechanics and balance. I especially like the strong back the sire contributed and the balance at the canter.

At this age, I am much, much more concerned about a horse having balance at the canter on turns and transitions, than looking like it will do an extended trot or not.

[egontoast]

It's quite funny how slc likes to pick apart a 2 yr old from hilltop but puts up a whole thread on this horse because he's sabeeeeeno??:lol:

[canticle]

I like this guy. I'm not sure why anyone would have a problem with him. Dressage is not judged on color, so sabino should not detract in any way.

[Dune]

Are the dogs for sale? They are just like I like them cute, small and obnoxious!:lol:

[EqTrainer]

I like this colt and think for the price, he's a good deal.

The one thing about him that I am not crazy about is the length of the underline of his neck. It is very close to the length of the topline of his neck. Considering his breed is originally intended to go poll high/inverted, this works great for them. Not so good for dressage. It will be a bit of work to keep him lifting at the base of the neck/withers and not using the underside of his neck instead.

My working student's pony has the same issue and it's tricky. A vertical chest front and a high neckset are all well and good but a shorter bottom line would make everything easier.

[slc2]

yep, but having 'turned over' such horses i'm not worried - i also thought the neck improved from yearling to 2 yr old videos, so not worried, and looking at the sire, dam and siblings, not worried.

[staceyk]

I like the second video better -- but in both he looks like serious fun. Would someone on this thread please BUY HIM?

Not to hijack, but here is another video of a youngster with interesting markings. I'm liking her alot (meets my "serious fun" criteria). I do not know the owner and didn't ask for permission to post. I figure anything on youtube is fair game, and it's more to enjoy than to critique...

At liberty http://youtube.com/watch?v=K-HLwE6x2rg
Under saddle http://youtube.com/watch?v=IwFYl2g67UA&feature=related

Stacey

[slc2]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pTl30em1cMs

[egontoast]

"yep, but having 'turned over' such horses i'm not worried "

Based on your multiple serial postings over several years you have owned maybe 4 horses in your life? The FEI horse who was never shown FEI, the rescue manure pile pony, the "bionic pony" which may have been a QH cross and perhaps a new horse? Maybe, maybe not.

How many have you owned and trained other than those?

Try to be honest about this before you scream at me in the usual manner.

[ridgeback]

"yep, but having 'turned over' such horses i'm not worried "

Based on your multiple serial postings over several years you have owned maybe 4 horses in your life? The FEI horse who was never shown FEI, the rescue manure pile pony, the "bionic pony" which may have been a QH cross and perhaps a new horse? Maybe, maybe not.

How many have you owned and trained other than those?

Try to be honest about this before you scream at me in the usual manner.

So you have to own the horse to sell it?? You have heard of horse trainers selling horses for clients/friends haven't you:lol::lol::lol::lol: And since when does she or anyone else for that matter owe you any kind of explanation..

[hitchinmygetalong]

I think those vids all show horses that trail their hocks behind. Sorry.

[staceyk]

Agreed, but they don't seem conformationally hopeless to me (well, Zia is downhill). The ones that naturally travel with hocks under also have the bigger price tags. What I see (esp in the dressage test footage) is a tight back that relaxes periodically, and nice potential. The rider's hands seem a little set, could be chicken or egg, but the horse looks ready to stretch forward with encouragement.

That said, what a nice compliant test.

[~Freedom~]

"yep, but having 'turned over' such horses i'm not worried "

Based on your multiple serial postings over several years you have owned maybe 4 horses in your life? The FEI horse who was never shown FEI, the rescue manure pile pony, the "bionic pony" which may have been a QH cross and perhaps a new horse? Maybe, maybe not.

How many have you owned and trained other than those?

Try to be honest about this before you scream at me in the usual manner.

Drums fingers on desk waiting....

[goeslikestink]

actually i dont how you got the cheek to post a thread as rgards to hackneys and if they can do dressage

i perosnally like the foal but dont think hes fulll bred but thats neither here nor there

the question was about hackneys

mate slicky ------ what on earth do you think they get place so high in the driven work and the ridden work a true hackney is like a small tb, and native to our island

and the x type also do well in any sphere

mate -- the horse is question has lovely markings and its wether you can school it to the level your at
obviously that woudl be a bit hard for you as your a beginner at dressage as in a novice so would find the finer tunning a tad diffifcult....

meaning you can tlak the tlak but can you do the walk the to walk

[EnjoyingRiding]

SLC has not posted anywhere on the thread as far as I can see that she wants to buy the horse....she's pointed out that the colt might get you noticed in the dressage arena. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell the purpose of this thread was to discuss the colt, not Slcs abilities to train it up the levels. Slc, are you looking to buy the horse?

Having said that, back on topic...I think he's very flashy looking, and I LOVE the 4 white stockings. It's impossible to tell from a few short videos of him messing around in the pasture whether he has the ability to do the upper levels. Time, growth, conformation (it'd be interesting to see a nice confo shot of him), and training will tell that.

[Gucci Cowgirl]

Think about it, how many of those high knee movers that we see in the inspections, young horse, etc - make it up the levels? Hummm.......

Yeah, but how many of ANY type of mover ever makes it up all the levels?

How many of the downhill, sewing-machine trotters, or the daisy-cutting, lateral walking, lumbering horses make it to GP? Not a lot. No type of mover can be discriminated against in this sport, because success depends on SO many different things, other than movement. It's not easy for ANY horse to move up all the levels successfully.

it's easy to say that brilliant movement isn't gauranteed to make it up through the levels..and then provide examples. It's also really easy to say that flat, unattractive movement doesn't make it up the levels, and provide examples of that, too.

Nothing is ever gauranteed to make it anywhere.

[egontoast]

Well I am questioning slc's statement having read her stream of consciousness thisismylife serial postings for many years.

yep, but having 'turned over' such horses i'm not worried "



I doubt slc has 'turned over' many horses. Am I allowed to say so?

[goeslikestink]

where does it state in this thread she buying it

all shes done is post a video link----------- er your assuming as alittle egg, to a chicken
dont run before one walks-- thy doesnt know thy poster yet

[EnjoyingRiding]

^Can you rewrite that so it makes sense?

eggontoast - you can say what you like, but that statement had nothing whatsoever to do with the point of this thread. It just seems pointless and childish to go on bashing someones ability to hypothetically train a horse up through the levels.

[goeslikestink]

laymans terms dont jump to conclusions

[egontoast]

It just seems pointless and childish to go on bashing someones ability to hypothetically train a horse up through the levels.


Ah yes, it SEEMS that way, doesn't it. Stick around a while . ;)

[PaddyUK]

Ah yes, it SEEMS that way, doesn't it. Stick around a while . ;)

There goes the tea all over the keyboard - again:lol:

Paddy

[Carol Ames]

he pieces of canter I saw left a lot to be:yes: desired. three pure :cry::sadsmile:gaits is the minimumm requuirement:yes:;"gaits balance and movement" After tha tcomes the trainiig:o

[risingstarfarm]

I grew up around Hackneys. Nice driving ponies.

[Moderator 1]

No links to videos/ads for sale horses, so we had to remove the links. If you want to continue discussing the colt/critters like him related to dressage, feel free, but avoid the personal commentary.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[STF]

Yeah, but how many of ANY type of mover ever makes it up all the levels?

How many of the downhill, sewing-machine trotters, or the daisy-cutting, lateral walking, lumbering horses make it to GP? Not a lot. No type of mover can be discriminated against in this sport, because success depends on SO many different things, other than movement. It's not easy for ANY horse to move up all the levels successfully.

it's easy to say that brilliant movement isn't gauranteed to make it up through the levels..and then provide examples. It's also really easy to say that flat, unattractive movement doesn't make it up the levels, and provide examples of that, too.

Nothing is ever gauranteed to make it anywhere.

I have to agree with all you said. Your 100% correct.

[STF]

Ah yes, it SEEMS that way, doesn't it. Stick around a while . ;)


Eggy, stop picking on her before I swat your hand with my ruler! :winkgrin:

[MelantheLLC]

Are the dogs for sale? They are just like I like them cute, small and obnoxious!:lol:

And furry! I swear the fat one looks like a 7-8 week old Great Pyrenees but a pyr baby could never move that fast.

At least I don't think so... (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4518134183949691327&q=great+pyrenees&ei=3fCLSJCXBqK8qwP9isGgCA)