Old swimmers...keep going guys!!!

[gubbyz]

So what is the oldest fresh cooled semen you have had success with? My mare was not ready to breed yesterday, probably will be either Monday or Tuesday. So I have this lovely container of you know what as a center piece on my kitchen table! Semen was collected Friday morning. :lol: Great conversation piece :eek:

[spacely]

I'd have the stallion collected again & reorder.

[gubbyz]

Thats probably what will happen, but if anyone has had success with older more "mature" swimmers, I would like to know. Just curious.

[STF]

When I have done the semen testings on our stallion, I do a 1 day, 2 and 3 day test. At one day he avergaes 80%, 2nd day in the low 60's and third was in the 20's. Now, 20% of 1.4billion sperm, is still ALOT of swimmers, but they were def. not as active as the ones that were 1 day old. So...... yes, there is a possibility, but will the swimmers last long enough for the follice, etc - as they are dying.
I was also very highly scutinized by another breeder once for letting my vet AI one of our mares using 2 day old semen, but it worked well and without any issues with mare and a foal 11 months later.
Anyway, if your vet told you to get the semen, the chances that your mare has already ovulated is high, so you have to go more with what the follices are doing than what is sitting on your table.
Good luck.

[pintopiaffe]

I'm sort of in the same boat. I threw in some 48 hr, 20-25% motility last Thursday.

The mare is acting VERY lovey, and she hates me. So I'm holding out a little hope that just one of those little guys (GUYS for her, too!) got there.

Mine was the opposite though, mare was ready, Big Blue got lost in Memphis. (all I kept humming was "Walking in Memphis... Ma'am I am tonight..." :lol: ) Didn't have luxury of ultrasound but she was still in wonderful breaking down heat by the time I got it here, figured I might as well put it in there. :uhoh:

Crossing EVERYTHING.

[STF]

Big Blue got lost in Memphis.

I had a Fed Ex shippment go out on Tue that did not make it either!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!! Must be a crappy time of the year on their part! Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

[pintopiaffe]

my SO said that often she sees shipments get 'stuck' in Memphis but then miraculously come out where they belong. So she held out hope until 1000 EDST when I went to pick up and NADA.

She says Memphis is the black hole for Equitainers.

I dunno why. If anything, you *might* think the Equitainers might make it before the disposables, which can look and feel like just any other package.

[FriesianX]

We inseminated mares with my stallion's semen at 3.5 days (remember, we don't lose a day to shipping since I can run him to the Stallion Station then bring home the semen) - my vet checked the semen first, and was amazed at how many swimmers there still were. I think it all depends on the semen. BUT... I figure semen still swimming at 3.5 days isn't going to last as long in the mare, timing becomes even more important. If you can re-order the semen, do it... If your mare ovulates Monday, you might be OK w/ the stuff you have, but if she hangs on until Tuesday :sadsmile:

[genevieveg17]

What does the mare have? If she is close to a 35 give her Deslorelin and inseminate. I would put the semen in. It is not going to get her pregnant sitting on your coffee table.
You can always order more if she hangs on.

[ShowjumpersUSA]

What does the mare have? If she is close to a 35 give her Deslorelin and inseminate. I would put the semen in. It is not going to get her pregnant sitting on your coffee table.
You can always order more if she hangs on.

Ditto!!

[Fairview Horse Center]

What does the mare have? If she is close to a 35 give her Deslorelin and inseminate. I would put the semen in. It is not going to get her pregnant sitting on your coffee table.
You can always order more if she hangs on.

Absolutely. IMO, it will last longer in the mare, and I would have inseminated her as soon as it arrived. At this point, I would take a quick look to see what the progressive numbers are just before inseminating. I would also order another shipment if it will arrive before ovulation.

[gubbyz]

She has not ovulated yet, just came in. Since stallion is now local, I got a dose ahead of schedule, figured we would try. Cervix was too tight. She u/s last thursday with a 40, but no heat signs in uterus. Now she is in heat and should be ready by mon or tues. I will put it in her anyway, ya just never know! Oh and Genevieve17, I wonder if the Juice Shack can make a special shake! :lol:

[pintopiaffe]

well, but you don't want to put the 'old' stuff in her if you're able to get a new shipment tomorrow... if it's not very good, all you'll do is cause too much inflammation for a new shipment to have the best chance.

Ideally, you only want to breed once. I don't have the cite, but recently read (Kathy's site maybe?) that using the 2nd dose can actually be quite counterproductive... so you don't want to use the 'old' first if you're able to get a GOOD batch...

does that make any sense? Maybe someone else can explain what I'm trying to say.

[gubbyz]

Thanks Pintopiaffe, makes sense. We will look at it under the scope tomorrow before we use it and go from there. If it is still looking good, than ok, if not I will try and get a fresh batch.

[goodmorning]

Hmm..I understand what you are saying pinto, but with a 40 on thursday she could have ovulated today, and that semen would have been better off in ;)

Good luck! I hope those swimmers last and she held on for you :yes: :)

[gortmore]

Shipped for someone else. That 1st mare was bred. Another mare was checked when the first mare was checked 2 days post breeding. First had ovulated, second mare was not pregnant again with frozen. They called and asked if they could use the second dose we had shipped. I said yes but good luck as it was 5 days old. Vet checked the swimmers, they looked great and the mare was bred, conceived and 340 days later had healthy, normal, full size twins, unassisted. It was amazing, they checked the mare multiple times and I guess one of the fillies just managed to hide.

I also had another breeding where we were heading to the US for a horse show. The vet had brought a mare into season so that we could get her bred before heading to the US. Of course she did not cooperate and we did a collection and shipped before leaving. That was a Saturday. They bred the mare Tuesday and got a pregnancy. I have also shipped to Nova Scotia where Air Canada managed to pull the Equitainer and left it to sit on the tarmac in Toronto for 3 days. Of course the mare had ovulated by that point but the breeder checked the swimmers and said they looked great.

Long story short we have had great luck with the older swimmers, although not ideal glad to know that our boy ships really really well.

[Signature]

Our vet also says it'll live longer in the mare than anywhere else. So, I'd put it in - we did that over the 4th of July; had to collect early due to the holiday and they collected Tues for Wed/Thurs breedings, mare didn't ovulate till Saturday, just checked in foal this AM with an appropriate size vesicle that would say she ovulated that Saturday or so.

We have mares who are breaking down with a 26mm follicle and wagon wheel edema, then tease for 6 days, then have others who don't even have edema or show anything until 45+ and only tease 2 days... just funny how different they can be!

[TrueColours]

Before I acquired my stallion the former owners sent a semen shipment from Ontario, CANADA to Ontario, CALIFORNIA.

FedEx screwed up - it got to Ontario, CA and they turned around and sent it back to CANADA where they realized their mistake and sent it BACK again to California

Long story short it arrived at the 68-70 hour mark, they inseminated the mare and she did conceive

The INRA extender that we use(d) was supposed to be good up to 72 hours with no problems at all. The new Revolution extender is supposed to keep the semen viable and active up to 120 hours (5 days) so we have switched all of our collections to Revolution instead

Good luck! :)

[STF]

All of you using semen that is over a day old are going to repo hell! LMAO
You should all be ashamed!!!

he he he he

[pintopiaffe]

Hmm..I understand what you are saying pinto, but with a 40 on thursday she could have ovulated today, and that semen would have been better off in ;)

Well, I would have put it IN too... but by Sunday night when we're asking about tomorrow, (I'm presuming) Monday, when a new LOCAL shipment is available... Just seems like it would be silly at this point.

I would have probably put it in the mare as soon as the cervix was open and soft enough... given a 35+... then used HCG or Des. Or heck, at least just put it in on Sat'dy. Then by Monday inflammation response would be calmed enough for a second breeding if neccessary.

I just was thinking/saying that to put in old semen on Mon'dy, then possibly new on Tues'dy didn't make much sense.

[Fairview Horse Center]

It would depend on when the mare ovulates. If another shipment is available before ovulation, I wouldn't inseminate. You have to wait at least 24 hours between inseminations, or you might as well dump it on the ground.

If the mare has not ovulated, no doubt, I would get another shipment pronto, and not bother with the one she has. It has to last a couple of days AFTER insemination, not just when it is put in the mare.

[Home Again Farm]

What does the mare have? If she is close to a 35 give her Deslorelin and inseminate. I would put the semen in. It is not going to get her pregnant sitting on your coffee table.
You can always order more if she hangs on.


Absolutely. The semen will keep as well in the mare. I have had mares pregnant when inseminated up to 4 days early. Always time to order more if this doesn't work. :yes:

[not again]

We have had the occasional mare come up with twins on twin check when the second follicle ovulated 9 days after the first. Some stallions have great longevity.:yes: But the semen has to be in the mare for that to happen.;)

[pintopiaffe]

So what did you end up doing????

(I'm whiling away a long shift at work while I do boooooring reports... ) ;)

[gubbyz]

Well today she showed a 36, uterus had edema, cervix was wide open, so we bred her. Heres hoping for bionic semen!

[Fairview Horse Center]

If she has edema, you have time to get another shipment. This is not when I would try to save a collection fee.

[gubbyz]

It looks like we may breed her again tomorrow with semen collected today.

[Signature]

I would definitely do that, you should have time. I am with Fairview, if she had raging edema and cervix is wide it should still be there today if not tomorrow too. If she has lost the edema you know you're getting close. Ask vet to tell you how soft the follicle is, that will help predict ovulation too. From what we've seen, firm follicle, lots of edema, you have a day or two, mushy and lost edema, you are imminent! :) Good luck, but I would DEFINITELY get another shipment. Did the vet check motility on the "old" batch? I am amazed that there are vets that don't check it - we went through that with two separate tries with a mare and then they finally checked the third batch and it was all dead as a doornail. No wonder she didn't take... stallion then was proclaimed infertile, after thousands wasted on this end - would have helped if semen was checked the first time!

[Fairview Horse Center]

For anyone breeding their mares at home, a basic microscope is a must. I am amazed at how many people don't have one to check the semen.

Without one, you also may be getting great progressive motility, but the swimmers may be few and far between. You need to have enough sperm to get a pregnancy, and some popular stallions may be pushing it to get the requests for that day filled.

[gubbyz]

You will love this...I work for my vet, and when we went to check the sperm under the microscope, the bulb was burned out! So we got his 7 yr old daughters toy, but real microscope out of his house (clinic is on thier property) but could not see anything! :lol: Darn Mattel products! Might as well have whipped out the "Easy Bake" oven and cooked up some lunch!

[spacely]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

OMG! That is hilarious! I will have to share that story with my vet. He'll love it!

[Tasker]

:lol:

I can add a funny to this tale of 'basic' microscopes!

When we do our frozen breedings, I take a teeny tiny droplet of residue, blot it on a slide and fire up an ancient microscope...this thing is from the 50's and has a hot lamp that is the light source, mirror that has no glue left to hold it (so be careful trying to move it) and the best part is that it does work! It is from a home, learn to look at small stuff Kit complete with prepared slides of all sorts of weird stuff (labels are gone), about 100 clean slides & covers and then the tools to dismember whatever you want to look at! :lol: I feel like I am about 10 all over again when we do this! :D

We just use the microscope and some slides - I try to stay away from the tools and weird goo that is in the other boxes!

Whatever works, right? :D

[gubbyz]

Funny Tasker! Whatever works is right!:yes: Our Mattel microscope had earth worm and some other bug goo on pre made slides! Oooohhhh...ahhhh...:winkgrin: I also believe that you had to have a light pointed at it to be able to actually see anything.

[goodmorning]

Great microscope stories!

FWIW, a great source of used-microscopes that are *wonderful* but maybe a little older, is your local University. I was able to get an amazing microscope for $300 that is nicer than the scope's in my undergrad labratory ;) I just went and bought it over in the post-grad building :lol:

[gubbyz]

Good to know!