newbee seeking really basic help - (sitting trot)

[ChelseaR]

Hi,
I have never posted on the dressage board before! I ride jumpers mainly (have ridden some beginning reining, a little bit of polo, cross country etc).
I did some beginner dressage when I was working with an eventing trainer but that was a couple of kids ago!

I love jumping and don't want to really switch over. I am looking more to cross train and maybe a little showing - my jumping trainer recently hired a dressage trainer as an assistant - so far it has been very helpful. I have noticed that people who are good jumper riders are having no issues with cross training (one very good rider with limited official dressage is getting ready to show second level). So I think that the right basics have been taught.

I however and not such a great rider ;) My current problem is the sitting trot. I have a dressage saddle (fits fine and comfortable for the horse - still cheaper leather though so rather stiff). I am getting more comfortable with leg postion (longer through thigh, lighter in stirrups, no bracing etc). What limits me now is my seat - or lack there of...

My mare is athletic but not the greatest mover - she has a big stride but is somewhat jarring.
She has had some dressage training in the past (not with me :) ). I have ridden a couple training level tests last month with ok scores. (I think ?? 65ish - what's a decent score for a new dressage rider?)

So advice on improving my seat so I can sit the trot and still have independant hands, use my legs effectively etc? I ride without stirrups and find it easier to sit that way but I think it makes me grip in the wrong places? I can have a friend lunge me too if that helps?

What feeling am I looking for at the sitting trot - I get moments where everything seems to click but then it goes away :(

Sorry so long!! Thanks for reading a long and very novice post :)

[MelantheLLC]

Definitely lunging. A LOT! W/o stirrups. Once you feel your back soften and begin to fit the horse's rhythm, then you can take stirrups back. If your horse does have a jarring stride, you really have to work at figuring out how to get your body to relax into it. You may have to consciously lift your pelvis with each stride to allow the horse's back to come up under you. Turn your knees inward and drop them down. (Not easy, you may need to lunge with a horse with an easier stride to sit first, to get the feel of it.)

I personally think this takes some inner thigh to stabilize you; others here may feel differently. You don't want to grip because that will put you out of rhythm, but you do want to be more than a sack of potatoes, so your muscles are taking some of the motion and softening it, as shock absorbers.

If you find that having the stirrups makes you bounce up more, then you are stiffening against them, probably in your ankles, or maybe your knees.

You may also want to try rising the trot w/o stirrups, until you feel stable, and then lightly sitting it for a few stride until you feel yourself bouncing out of rhythm, then rise again. You will get in shape, if nothing else!

[ChelseaR]

Thanks for replying - that is helpful :)
As a side note I sit much better without stirrups than with - what does that mean?

[coloredhorse]

That means you are just like most of the rest of us! Riding sans stirrups makes it so much easier to let your lower body drop down and find the right place to be. I second the recommendation for all the longe lessons you can get.

One thing that might help you -- it really helps me -- is to focus first on feeling a straight front back swing of your seat/pelvis. Then try to feel more of a one-hip-forward-then-the-other. At first it feels like a side-to-side motion (or at least it did to me), but then more the one-hip-other-hip. I find that when I can latch on to that, it mentally gives me something to do (beyond fretting that my sitting trot is lousy and what if my bad back won't allow me to sit and what if that means I can't pursue dressage anymore and, and, and ... :lol::lol:).

[stryder]

Thanks for replying - that is helpful :)
As a side note I sit much better without stirrups than with - what does that mean?
For me, it means I'm bracing against the stirrups.

I'm still working very hard on sitting the bigger trot, but here's what I did in the beginning. My trainer told me to put one hand on the small of my back, probably more to feel my back than anything else. As soon as the horse starts to trot, I push with my pelvis and my hand. I push as fast as I can, because I'm nearly always behind the stride of the horse. If I find myself going faster than the horse, it's OK, because it's easier to slow down than to catch up.
This is done on the longe. I leaned back pretty far in the beginning - it made it easier.

good luck.

[Reiter]

Thanks for replying - that is helpful :)
As a side note I sit much better without stirrups than with - what does that mean?

Yes, it means you're bracing and coming from a jumper background I would guess with your knees/thighs! The key to a good sitting trot is relaxation. As soon as you tense/brace you move against and not with the horse! The only thing that should be be tight is your core, your legs drape down loosely. I agree with whoever said to take longe lessons, as you can then really focus on your seat! It takes time and it is very different from a jumping type of position, so don't expect it to happen over night. Usually you'll get a couple of AHA moments and then try to recreate that feeling until it becomes natural! :)

[MelantheLLC]

You may be trying to maintain the "heels down" from your h/j background. Unless you have extremely flexible ankles, this will stiffen your whole leg against the stirrup and make you bounce. You don't want heels up or to push down with your toe, but a level foot is ok in dressage. Your foot can just rest in the stirrup; it doesn't have to be cramming the stirrup down because you won't be going into two-point with your heels as a base--for dressage sitting trot you are meant to be adhering to the saddle with legs just draping down "like wet towels" as de Knuffy (I think) says.

Think drape, think of yourself as melting down into the saddle in a relaxed way. You need core muscles but if you try too hard and tense your tummy or butt, you are lost. You want to widen your seat bones and "gel" downward. You truly "ride" the trot, accomodating the movement within your core without tensing it.

However, you will find this difficult on a horse with a big jolting trot, because you will have to take all the motion in your pelvis. If this continues to be an issue, I'd really recommend getting comfortable first sitting a horse with an easier trot. Riding a big hard trot is not the least of the skills any rider learns! There are plenty who never really manage it--see any number of videos of dressage tests with riders on big horses who can't hold their hands quiet because they can't really sit the trot in a relaxed manner.

If you are bracing at all against the stirrups, you tend to move both your knee and lower leg forward, particularly if any part of your leg is stiff, because then your knees can bend to take the movement instead of your ankle. Instead, you want to feel as if you are kneeling in the saddle, with your upper leg almost directly beneath you and your lower leg able to move BACK from the girth.

You may need to lengthen your stirrups. Try to find a length where you don't lose them but where your leg can hang down without a deep bend in your knee.

[slc2]

You can't be doing TOO bad! You got a 65 your first time out! :D

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Correct longeing and riding without stirrups will develop the sitting trot.

The BAD news of course is that some pundits say it takes 2 yrs to develop that sitting trot into a nice, adherent relaxed technique.

[Raji]

two suggestions that may help and of course longeing is the best way to go.
1. Put the reins in one hand and rest your fingers on the horse's croup
2. Pretend you are posting and let your inside hip swing toward the outside shoulder.
Relax the knee and ankle joints. Any siffness in the joints will cause you to brace. Think of your hips swinging with the horse's hips. This is easier if you are young but us oldsters usually do not have that flexability so I concentrate on just swinging one hip.

[ChelseaR]

This is really helpful - some good things to think about and I guess I will go find the lunge line :)

[sidepasser]

Riding bareback on the longe w/o reins is what taught me to sit the trot. Of course back then I was riding western, and we were NOT to bounce..so lots of longe line lessons learning to separate our lower back and hips from our upper body and learn to move with the horse.

The poster Coloredhorse describes what the feeling should be..and it will work, though you will be exaggerating the movement at first. Over time, you will find yourself becoming more refined and if you can sit the trot with a piece of notebook paper sticking out from under your butt and it not fly away..then you are doing well.

Something most of us older western riders were taught as the trot must be done sitting and it should be done effortlessly and without exaggerated movement (no bouncing up/down or side to side). I find that training helped me tremendously over the years to sit a trot regardless of the horse's conformation and way of going. Lofty gaits or short strided, you learn to feel the horse's movement quickly and adjust but it does take a while to learn it.

Posting on the other hand..geez..y'all got that down pat! I'm struggling with that as an older rider and will frequently just give up and sit the trot and do so as a "relief" as it is easier for me. I keep trying though..lol..maybe by the time I am 50 I will have it...

[grayarabpony]

Get a copy of Centered Riding by Sally Swift -- I think she gives an excellent explanation of how not to work against the horse while sitting the trot.

[Gayla]

When I first started riding the instructor would say to students that the sitting trot is the most active trot not the least. That is to say that when you are sitting the trot you are fully using your stomach muscles and your leg muscles to hold your body up and in motion with your horse. I found it helpful to think of the sitting trot as doing a hula motion r/t front to back. If your face isn't red and your not breathing a little harder after trying to sit for a good long stretch you are not trying hard enough. But as all things in dressage you must be strong and flexible and relaxed at the same time. try this. put your stirrups where they are longer than for jumping but short enough you can stand in them. Put your toes on them and then ask your horse to trot. Let your butt and thighs relax around the horse while all your weight is on the stirrups. Really try and feel the motion of the horse. Think about the hula girl. Then let your self sit down and take control of the saddle and thus the horse. The sitting trot is the most powerful tool b/c you can manipulate the horse's back and sides without leaving the saddle. Second exercise. Use the dressage arena by cantering down the long side. Stop in the corner with the horse's nose still pointing in the direction you were going. Do a turn on the haunches and canter off down the short side and stop in the corner again. Turn on the haunches and canter off down the long side. repeat until you can do with no problems or you fall off the side. haha. It really gets the horse's back going and you sitting to canter. Then go back to a little sitting trot and it is usually the best you have ever done b/c the horse's back is swinging.