Ottb for dressage?

[ivy62]

I am looking at adopting this horse and would like a better eye then mine to look at his conformation...I am told he has a floaty trot also...would he be suited for dressage?
Thanks
http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg115/ivy62/?action=view&current=affairposed.jpg

[Ajierene]

I'm not the best at telling confirmation to discipline, but he looks nice. One thing I did was compare him to a warmblood stallion.

http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdirnew/han/hn0023/hn0023lg.JPG


The horse you are looking at is not built quite as downhill as the stallion, but has the same shoulder and good legs. To me, it looks like he could do well in dressage, but of course, have someone knowledgeable go out and look at him with you, if possible.

[oldbag]

What about the rider? How much experience? How seriously do you take riding? How much time have you got? Do you have a good independent seat?

Are you the right height and weight for this horse? How ambitious? Do you aspire to International GP or schooling show training level? Why do you wish to 'do' dressage? ( I hate the expression 'do dressage' but training for dressage competitions is often considered somehow different from normal good riding)

The answers to these questions are as, if not more important than those about the horse.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Excellent post, oldbag. Thank you!

To the OP - how fresh off the track is this horse, and has he had any undersaddle work since then?

If I were considering him, I would want to see a video of him under saddle. I have not retrained any OTTB's and would either want one that has had some remedial work or I would have a trainer-in-waiting to start him. OTTB's can sometimes have some quirky issues.

As far as looks, I don't see anything terrible there. He's not standing square to the camera and he's leaning a titch forward in front, so that makes his front pasterns appear a little more upright than they might truly be. He's also standing very wide behind, again, this is a problem with how he is posed.

I think he's got a beautiful neck, he appears to be very "regal". I would certainly want to learn more about him.

Also, the "floaty trot" - is that when he is bombing around in the field, or under saddle?

Good luck!

[egontoast]

The Op just asked if this horse's conformation would be suited to dressage.

That's a reasonable question, I thnk.

It would help to see a photo of him on level ground side on (and it would be nice to see him move but the Op was asking about his conformation). Perhaps this is step one before she goes to look.

[hitchinmygetalong]

The Op just asked if this horse's conformation would be suited to dressage.


Thanks egon - you are right. I apologize for my verbosity :)

[ivy62]

I am looking for a horse to do lower level dressage, maybe I could get to second level. As my jumping days are long over. Did the hunters and equitation as a kid but as an adult I would rather try learning this discipline other then just doing the basics. I have retrained 2 OTTB, one fresh off the track and the other was off the track for a while but had no retraining at that..
I am trying to find out how much training he has had. His last race was in Aug of '07.. he had a bad fall and fractured a splint bone I believe that has healed well....
I know my last Tb was built more for hunters which I know more about that is why I posed the question...
Hitchinmygetalong- that regal look you describe is the Look of Eagles as seen in many Tbs..my present one has that also but he is a gorgeous bay...
FYI- I do have a trainer also and as far as being an OTTB, I love them!
Thanks for your in put. I am going to see if I can get a video of him moving under saddle and go from there....

[oldbag]

The Op just asked if this horse's conformation would be suited to dressage.

That's a reasonable question, I thnk.

It would help to see a photo of him on level ground side on (and it would be nice to see him move but the Op was asking about his conformation). Perhaps this is step one before she goes to look.

What exactly has conformation got to do with dressage? Dressage simply means training does it not? Does that mean only horses with certain conformation are suitable for training? And to what level?

Obviously, if you are a good enough rider with deep pockets and a desire to win Olympic gold, you are not going to be buying an OTTB. But even then you would excuse certain conformational imperfections if all the other boxes were ticked.

[ivy62]

old bag- I have heard that uphill builds are more then likely the better choice then down hill or even..so I was wondering about that..certain hind ends seem to shaped better for collection. These are the things I wonder about...Also, have heard that being able to rock back and collect on the hind end has something to do with build.....
I am treading in new territory and just was curious....
If it is just about training why would you not want an OTTB for grand prix levels and only a WB?

[egontoast]

What exactly has conformation got to do with dressage? Dressage simply means training does it not? Does that mean only horses with certain conformation are suitable for training? And to what level?
Obviously, if you are a good enough rider with deep pockets and a desire to win Olympic gold, you are not going to be buying an OTTB. But even then you would excuse certain conformational imperfections if all the other boxes were ticked.



Gee, well, must have touched a nerve.

There are certainly conformation issues that make a horse more suitable for one discipline than another. That does not mean you can't try, though, and that does not mean you can't do low level dressage with any sound horse. When you are looking to buy, though, and you have a purpose in mind, there's no harm in looking at conformation in addition to movement and temperament. :cool:

[MyReality]

Please state your goal.
This is not the right picture. He is not on level ground, I cannot see his hind, and his neck is at an angle.

[ivy62]

The goal is to rescue a horse..He was a hard knocking racehorse that deserves another chance...I would like to get a horse that might succeed in a dressage ring for I have no desire to jump again...I would see how far WE could go, I have seen OTTBs do well in various arenas...It would be a learning experience for us....
This picture is from CanterUSA..as far as tbs are concerned he is bred nicely...I am trying to get other pics plus a video and see how his training has progressed.....
Was just wondering what to look for.....

[Ajierene]

If you are looking to do about second level, I would say he would be fine. My mare's confirmation is not quite as 'pretty' has his and we are successful in first level. It does take more for me to get my mare to be competitive in first level, but scores in the high 60's are common for us. I event and haven't had the time to train past First level, but she could do second or *possibly* third. Not sure how successful she would be in third.

He is nice looking horse. If he has a good head on his shoulders, I would take a chance on him.

If you have never retrained an off the track thoroughbred before, put 60's days of walk/trot, learning leg and walk/trot/halt transitions off your seat and leg and you will be fine. He looks like a fine choice for someone looking to get into something else.

I trained my mare from the ground up and it is a bit harder for her to do dressage than a breed specifically bred for it - but it makes the reward even sweeter when we learn a new movement or get ribbons at a show.

[nhwr]

Things I look for in a dressage horse; short cannon bones (especially behind), well sprung neck and shoulder, good feet, a short-ish back and a willingness to tuck their pelvis as they move, particularly at the canter. It is hard to evaluate this guy because of how he standing and the angle the photo was taken from.

Any sound horse should be able to get to 2nd level, given the right training program. Of course it may be easier for some than others. For work at the level you aspire to, their mind and work ethic are more important than conformation barring any major flaws, IMO.

If you like this guy, I don't see anything in the photo that would be a deal breaker.

[ivy62]

Thanks Guys,
I just found out that he IS working under saddle at W-T-C and doing well..He had a nasty spill in his last race and fractured a splint bone that has healed well....His back was a bit out of wack but getting better every day. He is barefoot and working so I assume no lameness issues,,I am going to contact the foster home he is in and go from there...
What hurts me the most is retiring my horse who is the same age and sustained a major injury....
Maybe he could do some eventing with my trainer? He had speed on the track consistantly did the 1/4 in 22 3/5 and was game...so maybe he has heart to...easy to handle and such so I will wait to hear from them. If I can get more recent pics and a video I will post them...
Thanks again

[magickmeadow]

He is an attractive horse. Based on conformation alone, I like his shoulder, would prefer to see him more uphill, I am fine with hindquarters. It is hard to get a good feel about his legs because of the terrain he is on and how he is standing but nothing comes out to "bite" me that I couldn't deal with provided he is relatively sound. I would want know how flat footed he is. I have had a couple of OTTB's that were pretty flat and it presented shoeing and soundness issues. If he has a good sensible mind and the residual effects from his past injury were minimal, I would probably give him a go. Dressage after all is a training tool and even if you discovered he was not going to be competitive in the dressage arena, you would have put a good foundation on him making him suitable for other uses. Besides you would have offered a deserving horse a chance at a new career.

[ivy62]

My present OTTB came off the track with awful feet so I am very well versed in dealing with that. As I understand it this guy is barefoot and working.. Supposedly in the hands of a capable dressage rider (someone who does upper levels) so hopefully he is getting the basics...I am excited about him and sad for my guy....I cannot imagine going to my barn and not seeing his face every day but anothers!
This is my guy:
http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg115/ivy62/?action=view&current=img016.jpg

[oldbag]

old bag- I have heard that uphill builds are more then likely the better choice then down hill or even..so I was wondering about that..certain hind ends seem to shaped better for collection. These are the things I wonder about...Also, have heard that being able to rock back and collect on the hind end has something to do with build.....
I am treading in new territory and just was curious....
If it is just about training why would you not want an OTTB for grand prix levels and only a WB?

The most important things are ride-ability, good movement, balance, temperament and soundness, anything else is a bonus, not an essential.

For second level not much collection is needed. Any decent horse can do it.

I was talking about International competition when I said a TB would not be good enough. Not training.

[sm]

I would say the photo is too hard to tell, but what I see in the photo I like. For your question on build, to do second level in regional or local recognized shows:

- symmetrical build (for example, one shoulder not higher than the other).

- not looooong back.

- ablilty to get the hind legs well under him. He may not have developed the muscles to give you this consistently, but the ability should be there.

- to do upper level work one needs a great canter. His breeding says he's got this in spades, so I would just check "yes."

- the horse needs to enjoy dressage. Temperament is as important as conformation, especially for ammies.

My OTTB is downhill but has the athleticism and the mind for it --- and has gone all the way to GP despite being downhill. He has also stayed 100% sound after two careers, racing and dressage, and it's not always easy to find sound horses doing upper level dressage.

Sounds like a trite phrase, but sometimes you need to go with your gut. And yes, what she said:

The most important things are ride-ability, good movement, balance, temperament and soundness, anything else is a bonus, not an essential.

[neVar]

he's a nice looking chap. HE doesn't scream "OMg I'M GOING TO THE OLYMPICS" but he definatly has a good build to him.

He has a good size hip with good angle in it- which alot of OTTB's do not. He has a good lenth of neck and it's set on well. Not great, not bad but well. he is quite high in the stifle compared to elbow which can make a 'uphill' horse ride downhill but their natural way of going will tell ow that goes too (note so is my nice once approved stallion dutch warmblood!)

He's nicely balanced- front matches the back matches the middle type build he doesn't look 'weak' in one area.

So i'd put it this whay there is nothing ther ethat says to me 'this horse SHOULDN"T do dressage' (Ie no bad rear hind suspensory injuries, no bad bad hocks etc etc) if his temperment is for the sport there is no reason she shouldn't make it up several levels.

[Serigraph]

The goal is to rescue a horse..He was a hard knocking racehorse that deserves another chance...

Amen! Thank you for trying to rescue an OTTB. They are the bestest:)

[ivy62]

serigraph, this would be my second rescue and I love them too!

[Nightlace]

I think he's beautiful. Sometimes off-the-track Thoroughbreds don't move as good as their picture would suggest they should. So if you can get a video, that would be helpful. Of course, gaits can be improved with gymnastic dressage exercises. I like him, and think he'd be well worth the effort. Good Luck!

[hitchinmygetalong]

ivy62, I just had a thought.

If you know this guy's breeding, you might want to inquire on the Eventing Forum as to his suitability based on temperament. I think you'll catch the attention of more** folks who are training/competing with TB's there.

(**I'm not saying there are no OTTB people frequenting the Dressage Forum, I just think there might be more on Eventing :) )

[ivy62]

Thanks, I should do that..I do know his breeding....

[egontoast]

I'd be more concerned about the back than anything else, based on your comments. Did he flip over? That will be something for the PP vet to investigate in detail.

I hope it works out well for you and the horse.

[ivy62]

I couldn't agree more but as I understand it there were no breaks or tears just a big wrenching. The chiro has been working on him. I would have a PPE done with xrays too....
Thanks for the good wishes...

[egontoast]

The most important things are ride-ability, good movement, balance, temperament and soundness, anything else is a bonus, not an essential.


Conformation is linked to most of those things. You make it sound like conformation is purely a matter of aesthetics. Function follows form.

[EqTrainer]

I would be happy to have that horse in my barn. And I agree w/Eggy, conformation is important :) I do think the picture gives you a pretty decent idea that he is balanced and well built. A little more of the sprinter type than I care for, but thats my own personal taste speaking.

If doing a good deed is your goal, do consider tho' that this horse is not going to the killer anytime soon. I am not saying DON'T buy him, but he is already placed w/a rescue and has had good rehab/retraining. The horses who are at risk of going to slaughter are those who require "rescue". And there are LOTS of them.

FWIW, his breeding screams eventer. So I would be particular about his mind and be sure that he is really going to enjoy the work. And a bonus - a horse that raced that long, that well is probably really good at his previous job and will have a nice gallop to offer you when you ask for it. It is unlikely he will be really hot, more likely he understands trot sets and canter sets and understands that galloping is for when you ask for it, not to do for giggles :D

[ivy62]

Eqtrainer_ i have already had the major project from the track so I really do not want to do it again, but taking him makes room for another one who maybe AT the killer pens now...

[carasmom]

Check your pm.

[oldbag]

Conformation is linked to most of those things. You make it sound like conformation is purely a matter of aesthetics. Function follows form.

Not always. Come on, you must know of horses with copy book conformation and no movement, or no go button, or no calm down button.

There are also horses with long backs, too short backs, cow hocks, turned in or out feet, goose rumps, straight croups, long cannon bones, upright feet, flat feet, club feet and more! All of which can be found on on many successful dressage horses.

They wouldn't ALL be found on one horse though.:lol:

[egontoast]

No one said conformation was everything though, did they, and no one said conformation guarantees anything, did they?

It's just one of the things you might look at ,or I should say, some of us look at (of course excluding old bag).:)

[grayarabpony]

Egontoast::rolleyes:

[grayarabpony]

PS My first thought when I looked at that horse is that he looks like a run and jump kind of horse. But he may be just as happy doing dressage.