Inseminating post ovulation???

[TrueColours]

A mare that I am leasing ovulated 8 hours (give or take an hour or so each way) before the semen arrived and the vet did inseminate her with it.

I know the standard thought process is 6 hours post ovulation is the maximum to still achieve pregnancy but from others that I have spoken with "out in the field" insemination up to the 10-12 hour window still allows for a 50/50 shot at pregnancy

I am aware that if she does catch it will probably be a colt ... :) ... but what experiences has everyone had inseminating mares this length of time post ovulation?

I am (obviously!) hoping for more positive stories than negative ones ... ;)

Thanks everyone ...

[Hillside H Ranch]

Obviously, as you said, inside 6 hours post-ov is ideal. After that conception can still occur, but you have a higher incidence of early embryonic loss. I'm not sure anyone can really say you have a 50/50 shot after that point, as a lot of variables come into play. I can say that I personally haven't had great luck breeding post-ov at greater than 6 hours. Of course, I try not to do that :), so I don't have a very large sample size to report on!

[Cindy's Warmbloods]

We inseminated my mare post ovulation with fresh cooled this spring and she caught. However,I don't know how long she had ovulated prior to insemination as the vet is not a dedicated check at night kind of vet. We had checked her at 5pm the previous evening and she had a 5.4cm follicle and had most of her edema was disappearing. The semen never arrived until 11am the next day and she had ovulated somewhere between those times. So needless to say I was VERY surprised when she was found in foal. Best of luck, I asked the same question on this forum and it sounds like there was still people getting pregnancies up to 12hrs post ovulation!

[Reiter]

The 6 hour window post ovulation refers mainly to frozen semen. With fresh semen your window is bigger! Around 12hrs! So keep your fingers crossed! :)
There is a bigger chance of EED though, so you're probably not out of the woods until after 30 days!

[TrueColours]

There is a bigger chance of EED though, so you're probably not out of the woods until after 30 days!


Why is it that the embryo's that are conceived post ovulation suffer a higher rate of EED?

Is the rule of thumb the longer the conception post ovulation the higher the EED rate?

[Reiter]

The egg gets ovulated and if it doesn't get fertilized it breaks down, so the longer it takes to fertilize a certain egg the further along it is in the break down process. If the genetic components are compromised then the pregnancy can't be sustained!

[TrueColours]

Gotcha - that makes sense ...

How do vets determine how long post ovulation they are looking at on an ultrasound? Simply by the condition of the egg and how much it has broken down they can determine if it had ovulated 6 or 8 or 12 hours ago?

My vet had said 8 hours - I am just curious how they can come up with a number of hours???

Now - with it being this late in the season, the question is do we wait 5 days and short cycle her figuring she didnt catch anyhow, check her at 11 days and see if she is in foal and if not short cycle her then? Or shelve her for the year and try again next year instead???

We are really down to crunch time now and I am not 100% certain what the best and most intelligent course of action to take here is ... :confused:

[YankeeLawyer]

Personally, I would wait and check her at 11 days and see if she is in foal. If not, I would short cycle her at that time and try again (given that you are in Canada and presumably extreme heat is not an issue for July foals). One downside to late foals, though, is that they will be young relative to their peers in age-restricted youngster classes (e.g., HB, IHF, and certain dressage divisions).

[Justbay1]

I would wait and check her. We have had quite a few mares get in foal post ovulation AI with Fresh Semen. :)

[pintopiaffe]

It's a funny thing... I don't think it's "late" at all. LC up here we tended to do most of our breeding the last week of June/first week July... We're really only one cycle past the 'theoretical' MOST fertile cycle at the equinox. Days are still really long, food is plentiful, and at least my mares stay pretty darn regular, even if a day might be added to the cycle by mid-August.

Now, when you want the *foal* born is different... ;) Me, it's snowed here on June 6 in the past, I'm all set with a mid-late-June foal. :lol:

[TrueColours]

If not, I would short cycle her at that time and try again (given that you are in Canada and presumably extreme heat is not an issue for July foals).

Extreme heat??? Heck - we've been sitting in the 90-100F ++ range for the last few days with the Humid-X reading WAY beyond that!

Yeah - it gets stinking hot and humid up here through July and August and into the first part of September so as well as the fact that this foal would need to compete against its peers down the road that are months older, we do have the heat factor to contend with, with July born foals as well ...

So - that is part and parcel of the whole dilema to be honest ...

[SMMP]

What's the dilema? :confused:

You had semen, the mare ovulated, you inseminated. Now you just sit and wait and ultrasound.

What's done is done. Nothing anyone on this board can say or do to get the mare pregnant. :yes:

[TrueColours]

What's the dilema?

You had semen, the mare ovulated, you inseminated. Now you just sit and wait and ultrasound.

What's done is done. Nothing anyone on this board can say or do to get the mare pregnant.


The dilema?

If every poster came back on here and said they have tried inseminating post ovulation 4-6 hours out and the mares NEVER caught, then I would be leaning more towards foregoing this shot, short cycling in 5 days from now and trying again on the 25th/26th once again.

But - since the 8 hour window appears to fall within normal conception ranges, I am leaning more towards waiting the 11-12 days to check her and if she is not in foal, short cycling then and re-breeding on the 31st/1st and THAT will be the last try for this season instead

I am not looking for anyone to say anything or do anything to get this mare in foal :confused: I am merely looking for opinions as to the success rate or lack thereof for inseminating this far out post ovulation

[Leena]

Well our mare had ovulated when the semen arrived; our vet putted the 2 doses because he comment the follicle has not completely disapeared. We could not figure how long the ovulation took place but our vet figure something like 10 hours.

Results were positive since she showed a huge embryo 17 days later !!!! We were very happy !

[Kyzteke]

Gotcha - that makes sense ...

How do vets determine how long post ovulation they are looking at on an ultrasound? Simply by the condition of the egg and how much it has broken down they can determine if it had ovulated 6 or 8 or 12 hours ago?

My vet had said 8 hours - I am just curious how they can come up with a number of hours???


I don't think they are seeing the actual egg -- they call it a follicle and it's the sack that contains the egg. Actual ovulation is when the eggs bursts from the follicle, then enters the fallopian tube to make it's way down the oviduct.

The "follicle" then collapses and turns into a Corpus Hemorrhagia (I KNOW I've spelt that sucker wrong...) and then a CL (Corpus Lutium?).

Also, the vet can see the uterus and they judge ovulation by the amount of edema present.

It's all just a guess. You can't set you watch by it. Unless the vet stood there all night with his hand up your mare's butt, (which is how they do all these studies), it's an estimate.

If you are using chilled semen, you still have a good chance of conception. Don't give up.

[goodmorning]

I'd wait until day 11/12 and go from there - if nothings present then short-cycle her. Also, is there any possibility that she had another follicle hanging around that may have been close to ovulation?

[dressagetraks]

I'm checking two this afternoon. One was bred right at ovulation, one bred at "I think she ovulated some time last night." We'll see!

[YankeeLawyer]

Extreme heat??? Heck - we've been sitting in the 90-100F ++ range for the last few days with the Humid-X reading WAY beyond that!

Yeah - it gets stinking hot and humid up here through July and August and into the first part of September so as well as the fact that this foal would need to compete against its peers down the road that are months older, we do have the heat factor to contend with, with July born foals as well ...

So - that is part and parcel of the whole dilema to be honest ...

No way! And to think I have been jealous of all you guys up North, thinking you must be enjoying those Vermont or Maine type summers.

Okay, well scratch the (non) extreme heat comment, but I would still wait and see if you already have a pregnancy. If it turns out she did not take, whether to try again I guess depends on how important it is to you that she be in foal this year.

[talloaks]

I had one of my mares bred at least 12 hours after ovulation with fresh cooled semen from A Fine Romance when he was at Hilltop Farms and she caught!! She produced a filly the next year!! I think we bred in July if I remember correctly. I'm guessing your mare probably caught.

[MaresNest]

Due to a FedEx disaster, my mare was bred post-ovulation. We're not sure how far post-ovulation, but she did get pregnant and we now have a beautiful three year old *filly*. :)

[MaresNest]

I had one of my mares bred at least 12 hours after ovulation with fresh cooled semen from A Fine Romance when he was at Hilltop Farms and she caught!! She produced a filly the next year!! I think we bred in July if I remember correctly. I'm guessing your mare probably caught.

Interesting! My mare who was bred post-ov and produced a filly was bred on July 8, 2004. :)

[patch work farm]

Well, my fingers and toes are crossed for you because I am in the same boat!! This poor mare has been bred since April and due to a host of issues, she was just bred again two days ago and hopefully despite the post ovulation, she will finally catch!

The vet said she had "just ovulated" so of course, I said...what time frame is "just" 6 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours???? She commented that the CL had not yet formed and it looked like it had just gone, her cervix was still open...all better signs than not, but still a crap shoot. She had a 3.0 the day before so she FLEW through this cycle...evidently the later in the season, the more often they do.

Sending fertile thoughts your way...you said you would be done soon, I will keep trying since this is a foal going to someone. I have bred as late as August 24th (yes, here in VA) the good news was that the following summer was actually one of our coolest so a July foal wasn't so awful...it was the weaning at Thanksgiving that I hated!

[TrueColours]

patch work - and fertile thoughts back your way as well! :)

I have made the decision to allow this pregnancy to (hopefully!!!) develop and check her on the 28th at 12 days. If she is not in foal she'll get short cycled on the 28th, checked in *2* days this time instead of 3, and we'll hopefully re-inseminate on the 31st/1st and then that will be it for this season

I have 2 other mares to check on the 25th and I am praying that they both took as well as I really dont know if I want 3 late foals and if I am better off giving them a break this year and starting earlier next year instead ...

[sixpoundfarm]

Well, here is a success story for you!

I just checked my TB mare infoal to Ruiz Soler on Monday. She was bred post ovulation, (Ovulated overnite, sometime between 930pm and 630 am) with one dose of frozen, given Oxytocin and caslicked.

I was not holding much hope, as they determined she'd been sucking air vaginally, looked to be a secondary follicle for that cycle, and she had absorbed the earlier vesicle we had seen from the first cycled we bred her.

Fingers crossed that all will be well on her next few checks!!

Good luck with your mare.

[Peg]

I had a post- ovulaton breeding yesterday. We checked her Saturday and since she seems to hang on to her follicle, we felt Tuesday was a good bet. Tuesday arrived and we found that she had already ovulated and my heart froze:eek:. Here's hoping that we were still within the window. Peg

[talloaks]

I found out yesterday that my mare did not catch with frozen when she was bred at 6 am and had ovulated. At midnight he had not ovulated. So I don't know the reason but am terribly disappointed! This will be the first of many years without any foals!! Time for a real vacation I would guess. Or maybe its a hint to forget breeding!

[Fred]

I had one of my mares bred at least 12 hours after ovulation with fresh cooled semen from A Fine Romance when he was at Hilltop Farms and she caught!! She produced a filly the next year!!

and a beautiful filly she is, Talloaks!

I'm sorry to read that your mare did not catch with frozen this year.
sending big hugs. {{ }}

[talloaks]

and a beautiful filly she is, Talloaks!

I'm sorry to read that your mare did not catch with frozen this year.
sending big hugs. {{ }}


Yes, Fred, she is a lovely filly who is growing so quickly, upwards that is!!! The owners don't know if she will be plump enough to show at Warrenton!! Maybe she should wait and show as a 2 yo instead, perhaps she will keep added weight instead of going taller!!:winkgrin: