So my 2 y.o. likes to piaffe by himself...

[tidy rabbit]

I have this 2 y.o. Oldenburg gelding by Hall of Fame. He does all sorts of interesting moves when he and his 3 y.o. brother play in the field. I noticed the other day that he was piaffe-ing (is that a word?) by himself with some que from his brother. He also does very nice turns on the haunches and forehand while playing.

Is this a sign that he should maybe go to a good dressage trainer? Could he be a natural born dressage star?

Here's his picture from last fall...
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2813490420048495570wcSspz

okay, here's a more conventional pic from Aug of last year....
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2655358430048495570EIgdfa

I ride jumpers and don't know anything about how dressage trainers teach advanced movements, but I'm just wondering if he does it by himself, would he have a chance at being a nice dressage horse?

If you were going to send one out to a BNT within a couple hundred miles of Dayton OH, who would you go to?

I'm going to start him undersaddle next spring. He's currently 16.1 ish up front and 16'3 at his rump. He should mature around 17.2 (string tests that height anyway and his brother is 3 and 17.1 & 1/4).

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[merrygoround]

I'd wait till fall of his 3 yo year to sit on him, no matter how big he is, in the meantime, I'd do in hand work, and start thinking of occasionally longeing him next spring.

[tidy rabbit]

I'd wait till fall of his 3 yo year to sit on him, no matter how big he is, in the meantime, I'd do in hand work, and start thinking of occasionally longeing him next spring.

Right.

That doesn't really answer my questions though.

When he has radiographs showing his growth plates above his knees are closed is when he'll be started undersaddle, lightly. That will be sometime next year. He'll also be taught ground driving before hand and he's handled everyday. He's been on a longe line all of about 5 or 6 times.

[merrygoround]

Because until he's all done growing, you can only guess at his potential.:)

[hitchinmygetalong]

Unfortunately, unmounted "goofing around" moves in the field do not indicate dressage superstardom. If they did, there would be a lot more superstars out there!

I totally agree with Merry - wait on this growthy young horse. You have lots of time ahead of you - it's better to start them a little late than too soon.

You can also long-line him - it's lots of fun, very easy on young joints.

Edited: I see you are going to ground drive him - good start!

[hessy35]

I have this 2 y.o. Oldenburg gelding by Hall of Fame. He does all sorts of interesting moves when he and his 3 y.o. brother play in the field. I noticed the other day that he was piaffe-ing (is that a word?) by himself with some que from his brother. He also does very nice turns on the haunches and forehand while playing.

Is this a sign that he should maybe go to a good dressage trainer? Could he be a natural born dressage star?

Here's his picture from last fall...
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2813490420048495570wcSspz

okay, here's a more conventional pic from Aug of last year....
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2655358430048495570EIgdfa

I ride jumpers and don't know anything about how dressage trainers teach advanced movements, but I'm just wondering if he does it by himself, would he have a chance at being a nice dressage horse?

If you were going to send one out to a BNT within a couple hundred miles of Dayton OH, who would you go to?

I'm going to start him undersaddle next spring. He's currently 16.1 ish up front and 16'3 at his rump. He should mature around 17.2 (string tests that height anyway and his brother is 3 and 17.1 & 1/4).

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

A video would be helpful to see his movement. Pics tell us very little, other than he is stunning.

[tidy rabbit]

Unfortunately, unmounted "goofing around" moves in the field do not indicate dressage superstardom. If they did, there would be a lot more superstars out there!

I totally agree with Merry - wait on this growthy young horse. You have lots of time ahead of you - it's better to start them a little late than too soon.

You can also long-line him - it's lots of fun, very easy on young joints.

Edited: I see you are going to ground drive him - good start!


I don't do much of anything with him I have 3 other horses. He's just growing up and hanging out. I'm not in any hurry. I was just wondering if they do the moves by themselves if it's any indication of future talent.

[tidy rabbit]

A video would be helpful to see his movement. Pics tell us very little, other than he is stunning.

I'll try to catch him playing on video. I've never had one that I thought would make a good dressage horse, but this one has me thinking he may have a different calling than I can help him with.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Horses moving freely in a field will oftentimes perform some interesting maneuvers. You have to remember they are not carrying any weight, and they are doing these movements of their own free will. If there are two horses "playing" you will see some rearing, some strutting around, some neck arching...

None of this is indicative of any particular talent for dressage, as dressage is a mounted activity and the horse must perform certain movements with precision and on the rider's aids.

Does that answer your question? :)

[mp]

The fact that the horse is doing this stuff indicates a degree of athleticism. But as others have pointed out, you won't really know how much of that will translate to undersaddle work until he's under saddle. ;)

My horse used to do a pretty nice canter half-pass when he was a young 'un playing around with his buddies in the pasture. He's been under saddle for 4 years now and he's certainly a very nice riding horse, but we won't be doing anything like that any time soon. Partly because he's a little temperamental, but mostly because I'm not a very good rider. :lol:

[tidy rabbit]

None of this is indicative of any particular talent for dressage, as dressage is a mounted activity and the horse must perform certain movements with precision and on the rider's aids.

Does that answer your question? :)

Sure. Thanks.

Horses moving freely in a field will oftentimes perform some interesting maneuvers. You have to remember they are not carrying any weight, and they are doing these movements of their own free will. If there are two horses "playing" you will see some rearing, some strutting around, some neck arching...

Ya, this went beyond that sort of play. He was sort of stuck in a corner with the fence on two sides and his brother bugging him, and there he was piaffing. It was very cool. Probably wont ever happen again, but it just made me think... "humm I wonder if that's any indication?"

[J Swan]

[quote=tidy rabbit;3368579 I was just wondering if they do the moves by themselves if it's any indication of future talent.[/quote]


Don't I wish.... the most gorgeous movement I've ever seen in my horses usually happens when the local bear wanders by and they run around pretending to be all scared and then get each other all worked up. Lovely suspension - passage piaffe..... quite nice. Then they turn back into ugly ducklings again.

Maybe your lovely youngster would be the exception but in my barn - they're just teasing me. :cool:

[tidy rabbit]

Don't I wish.... the most gorgeous movement I've ever seen in my horses usually happens when the local bear wanders by and they run around pretending to be all scared and then get each other all worked up. Lovely suspension - passage piaffe..... quite nice. Then they turn back into ugly ducklings again.

Maybe your lovely youngster would be the exception but in my barn - they're just teasing me. :cool:


You have a local bear? ??? :)

[slc2]

To answer the question, nearly all healthy young horses play in the field and jump around and do different moves, it doesn't mean they will be able to do advanced dressage stuff under saddle. About 1 in 10,000 horses (according to the director of the Spanish Riding School, Alois Podhajsky) are able to do all that upper level dressage stuff under saddle, and not be hurt by it. It's like not all horses can jump a 6' puissance wall in show jumping - especially more than once, LOL.

I don't feel closure of growth plates is a good indication of readiness for breaking. I would wait to ride the horse til he is 3 no matter what - especially with a warmblood or wb cross, it is very, very, very important not to ride them or longe them alot when they are young.

[J Swan]

You have a local bear? ??? :)

Yeah - he comes across the cornfield, eats the apples in my orchard, and then goes down into the bottom and hangs out. Horses don't bat an eye unless they get a wild hair up their butts.... and then they're all show - you know how they can get.

[Sebastian]

Ya, this went beyond that sort of play. He was sort of stuck in a corner with the fence on two sides and his brother bugging him, and there he was piaffing. It was very cool. Probably wont ever happen again, but it just made me think... "humm I wonder if that's any indication?"

Well, IMHO, this tells you that he's capable of extreme collection, which is always good. FWIW, I had a TB that would do tempi-changes (1 & 2) for fun when turned out. He turned out to be a spectacular Dressage horse. :yes:

Seb :)

[tidy rabbit]

I don't feel closure of growth plates is a good indication of readiness for breaking. I would wait to ride the horse til he is 3 no matter what - especially with a warmblood or wb cross, it is very, very, very important not to ride them or longe them alot when they are young.

As we all know there are two schools of thought on the above statement. Most educated horseman feel that it is appropriate to start work when the horse is balanced, well developed, and properly evaluted by a knowledgable vet.

It is my opinion that it depends on the individual animal and on the training program. If you work with your team of professionals, vet, farrier, and trainers, you can make a sound decision that will benefit the individual horse and give it it's greatest advantage in life.

Whether that means start them as a late 2 y.o. or as a 3 or 4 y.o. completely depends on the individual, his health and mental abilities and your own training program; again, that's just in my opinion.

[slc2]

i might put a saddle on a 2 1/2 yr old, but i would not put them into work til 3 1/2 , n serious work til 4

horses don't mature at such different rates that some of them can be in work at 2 1/2-3.

[tidy rabbit]

What do you define as work?

To me, a young horse, can be lightly ridden at 2 1/2 to 3 years old and by that I mean 1 or two times a week and for 10 / 15 maybe 20 minutes at a time. Nothing strenuous, just exposure, taught forward and back and general aides. No big deal, no stress. Trot poles, cavaletti type stuff, nothing more then short sessions that are fun and interesting.

I think there is big difference between the above and someone who gets on rides for 45 / 60 minutes and works the horse.

I for one wouldn't start working a horse in long training sessions until it was a late 4 y.o. but that's just me.

[DMK]

Is tidy saying she doesn't ride this young'un? She lies. But he does have mad skillz as a dressage horse, that's for sure. :lol:

[KC and the Sunshine Band]

I've seen TR on that young horse. It's criminal, really. :eek:

[hitchinmygetalong]

I'm going to start him undersaddle next spring.


KC, I don't understand. Are you referring to the horse she spoke of in the original post?

[slc2]

great of you, sunshine, and what a great name (sunshine) for someone who brings their personal grudges to a public bb. :lol:

[hitchinmygetalong]

Is tidy saying she doesn't ride this young'un? She lies. But he does have mad skillz as a dressage horse, that's for sure. :lol:

"Sunshine" isn't the only one, slc2.

[slc2]

my basic reaction is - who gives a sh**? dmk too? i don't care. this isn't the place to resolve arguments like that.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Since you have once again decided to be Moderator For A Day, slc2:

The way I look at it, after several posters (including yourself "LOL") advised the OP not to ride this growthy youngster, the OP stated she was not riding him.

Two other posters dispute that fact.

Since I was one of those who advised her to not ride him, I am just curious as to what the truth might be.

The OP is certainly free to come back and clear this up. Or she can just drop it. Her choice.

[slc2]

discussing when to ride a young horse is a whole hell of a lot different than saying how someone rides is criminal. that's an individual argument, not a 'topic'.

and no, i'm not playing moderator. i'm saying i don't like to see personal arguments here and that i don't think they belong here. the moderators will decide if they want it to go on.

[tidy rabbit]

I believe this is the picture in question. I mean come - on, is this really too young?
How I train my horses is no ones business but my own!

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2273855490048495570gwUwpH

Really, stop taking yourselves so seriously!

[tidy rabbit]

Since you have once again decided to be Moderator For A Day, slc2:

The way I look at it, after several posters (including yourself "LOL") advised the OP not to ride this growthy youngster, the OP stated she was not riding him.

Two other posters dispute that fact.

Since I was one of those who advised her to not ride him, I am just curious as to what the truth might be.

The OP is certainly free to come back and clear this up. Or she can just drop it. Her choice.


Why thank you Hitch, for giving me at least a little credit! You can't trust anything that silly KC and the Sunshine Band writes. Just look at it's profile picture! :)

I really don't like being addressed like I'm the "lowest common denominator" by people who don't know anything about me. I didn't ask for training advice, I merely stated the facts and asked if it was any indication of being a future dressage star, but as you can see the picture in the previous post, he's already on his way! LOL.

[mp]

I believe this is the picture in question. I mean come - on, is this really too young?
How I train my horses is no ones business but my own!

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2273855490048495570gwUwpH

You need to shorten your stirrups. ;)

[hitchinmygetalong]

and no, i'm not playing moderator. i'm saying i don't like to see personal arguments here and that i don't think they belong here. the moderators will decide if they want it to go on.

And I stand by what I said. You know very well what the function of the alert button is. Use it instead of coming down on a poster and declaring a post as inappropriate. I would think you would have learned this by now.

"LOL" :lol:

Tidy Rabbit, you do need to shorten your stirrups, and I think if you lower your hands that mount might drop his head a bit. :lol:

[DMK]

See? You doubted me but tidy is a fer sure real honest-to-god HORSE ABUSER, probably with deep psychological implications that should be discussed in detail, preferably with a pubmed summary! Slc, you should teach her a lesson. Now. Preferably on the internets. Those are the best kind, I understand.

[slc2]

i doubt anyone who brings such things to a public forum in the fashion you are doing.

[egontoast]

I believe this is the picture in question. I mean come - on, is this really too young?
How I train my horses is no ones business but my own!

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/227...48495570gwUwpH (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2273855490048495570gwUwpH)




:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[foursocks]

i doubt anyone who brings such things to a public forum in the fashion you are doing.

You mean: humor? Good god, you're right- can't have *that* on a public forum! :mad:

Back to the original post, and a more important question for tidy bunny: did your two year old look more like a Lipizzaner or a Percheron? :confused:

[tidy rabbit]

You mean: humor? Good god, you're right- can't have *that* on a public forum! :mad:

Back to the original post, and a more important question for tidy bunny: did your two year old look more like a Lipizzaner or a Percheron? :confused:

Well, honestly, because he's pinto color I think he looked mostly like a Gypsy Vanner instead of an Oldenburg.

[hitchinmygetalong]

Oh, it was a joke?!?!

You got me, guys! :lol:

[egontoast]

You and someone else!


i doubt anyone who brings such things to a public forum in the fashion you are doing.


:no:

[Foxtrot's]

Goofy people.

But back to topic in hand - they say that a dressage horse can be spotted young, but you have to wait for a jumper to see if he has the desire to jump clean and has the heart. In that case, at least your horse is athletic and has shown he can do it if he choses to. You are further ahead than if he didn't prance around and hung out like a deadhead. Time will tell.

[grayarabpony]

What a horse does at freedom is a good indicator of talent.

[goeslikestink]

Goofy people.

But back to topic in hand - they say that a dressage horse can be spotted young, but you have to wait for a jumper to see if he has the desire to jump clean and has the heart. In that case, at least your horse is athletic and has shown he can do it if he choses to. You are further ahead than if he didn't prance around and hung out like a deadhead. Time will tell.

no you dont--- a horse will jump as high as it bucks----

[goeslikestink]

What a horse does at freedom is a good indicator of talent.

cor i dont remember freedom saying shes looking at talent---------- horses haha

[Valentina_32926]

Doing the movements without a rider IS an indication - but overall you want to evaluate how he moves - does he move "uphill"? My mare moved uphill even when her butt was 2 inches higher than her withers.

She looks to "climb" when she trots and when she canter her hind legs come well forward - underneath herself.

The movements indicate the horse is althletic - as does the bucking! :lol:
Before I ever sat on my mare she did a capriole from a dead stop her belly above the 4 foot fenceline she was standing next too! :eek: Scared the snot out of me :o because I was the one to break her, although she never gave me a problem under saddle. :D

So yes - it points to the fact that he may do well in dressage. After he's going under saddle then re-evaluate him.. by the way my mare is jumper bred top and bottom - I really like that cause it gives them the push and carrying from the hind end that they need in dressage. :yes:

[tidy rabbit]

The movements indicate the horse is althletic - as does the bucking! :lol:

This one jumped a 4'9" high pasture fence at the age of 6 months, fence jumping is something his sire is notorious for. He's a devil. I will be the one to start him and I hope he'll be like your mare and not give me any trouble. Every time I see him doing something crazy I think to myself, "uggg do I REALLY want to be the first one on that wild thing?"

[STF]

Well if bucking is a idea of jump height someone screwed up bad on that theory. Our stallion cant buck to save him life (does the wiggle and hop), so if that was true, he could only jump 2ft.
http://www.spindletopfarm.net/Puertojumping.wmv

[Dune]

no you dont--- a horse will jump as high as it bucks----

I've owned plenty of horses that liked to buck but didn't like to jump. I get what you are trying to say, I've always said that that can jump as big as they can buck...but only if they have the "want" to. You can't make a horse jump that doesn't like it...at least not for very long.;)

[Mozart]

While almost all horses do "dressage moves" while goofin' around, I think a horse that does it a lot must find it kind of fun. I wouldn't totally discount it. However, as others have pointed out, having to "do it for a living" is a bit different. And there is more to being a dressage super star than being able to piaffe. Plus, piaffe is a real sit down and collect thing, a lot of what young horses do is more "trot in place" thing.

However, if your young horse really does like to collect....that is a good thing in jumping too right? Maybe you don't want to send him off to be a dressage super star? ;)

Oh and DMK...what do you think you are doing injecting humour into the dressage forum! BAD DMK! BAD!

[tidy rabbit]

However, if your young horse really does like to collect....that is a good thing in jumping too right? Maybe you don't want to send him off to be a dressage super star? ;)



He's so rotten I think I might be looking for a reason to avoid spending much time with him myself. He'll probably end up being the best jumper I've had! LOL.


Oh and DMK...what do you think you are doing injecting humour into the dressage forum! BAD DMK! BAD!

DMK is hilarious! And you're right, the dressage forum seems to be a little, well, how should I say.... serious?

[pintopiaffe]

forgive me, I haven't waded through all 3 pages...

But I *do* believe that some horses show their 'talents' in their evasions.

My stallion is a levadeur. He doesn't rear, but several times has lifted himself off the ground, haunch very tucked, at a low angle, and HELD it. Yes, in hand, but has a propensity toward it under saddle as well (NEVER encouraged yet.) Luckily my teacher does airs, so eventually, we'll get there. He also has a very natural piaffe, with a LOT of sit. Passage, not so much. Natural spanish walk though, so we'll exploit that for passage.

Anyway, the SRS always chooses the stallions airs from their evasions and gifts.

So... yeah, I DO think that playing can be somewhat indicative of talent.

[Petstorejunkie]

Welcome to how dressage came to be! :winkgrin:
Dressage in it's purest form is merely a reflection of a horse's natural movements of courtship, territory, and communication distilled and perfected with the help of a human...
EVERY horse can piaffe, but that doesnt mean that your horse is a superstar, nor is he crap, just that's he's a horse and is having fun with all that entails.