Exercises for top-line/mid-section (Pics P.#13)

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I wasn't really sure what to name this thread...

My TB who was on the skinny side has been finally gaining weight and even more muscle. I've been conditioning him, doing some hills and riding in the ring really getting him to use himself (Bending, turning, engaging his hind end, really lifting up and using has back, his neck etc.) So the question I have is now that he is starting to get fat he just gets this belly but is still has ribs. It's happened before were he just gets big everywhere but there. Is there certain exercises that will help his top-line and rib cage area? I figured the bending, yielding, flexing and poles would he of help but I'm wondering if any of you have other suggestions on filling out this area with more muscle perhaps. Maybe I will have to snap a picture of him later. But any suggestions are appreciated.

[SillyHorse]

Is he on a regular deworming program?

[slc2]

I'd suggest having your vet look at him next time he is around, and be sure the vet doesn't think the horse has some medical problem. Ask your vet about feed for the horse, and be sure he's getting enough of the right stuff.

Some thoroughbreds just don't ever get a lot of 'cover' over their ribs. Some thoroughbreds just never really look very rounded topline or bulky muscled, that's just how they are. Especially if they tend to carry their head up high and hollow out their back (drop it down) while being ridden, they don't get a lot of muscles over the top of their neck, back and hind quarter.

But if the horse is getting a 'belly', there can be a couple different reasons why. One is that is just how he is. Two is that he is getting a hay that has a lot of volume and bulk to it, which honestly usually isn't that bad for horses, it's good for them to have something to chew on and stay busy with....unless it's a really rough coarse hay with not too much nutrition to it. Three is that the horse has a belly full of worms; though you usually see that 'pot belly' type thing on foals, not adults, and if the horse is on ANY type of worming program, he usually isn't going to be carrying a heavy load of worms as an adult. Four is that the horse is not getting enough work for him, or the work he's doing doesn't develop his muscles over his topline. Five is that he has a cancer, tumor or other growth in his belly, because that's rare, I put it last.

I think that a lot of thoroughbreds only really look good when they are in a real consistent program where they get worked very frequently, not so much working for so long in a given ride, but being ridden often.

Stretching down and other correct dressage work tends to make all horses look more attractive and handsome.

[AnotherRound]

I'd like to hear the answer to this too, from those 'in the know'. My instinct would be cavaletti, but I want to know more about training the horse on this level so I'd like to hear (for example, I thought this was someone's eager quest for a stronger core for themselves, and although I have a personal trainer and have been working on that myself, I thought I'd read other's secrets for ripping abs). :winkgrin:

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Yes he is. I power-packed him not too long ago also. Then I had him fecal tested by the vet just to make sure and all was well. He is still continuing his regular de-worming. I forgot to mention I ruled out that issue. The vet said he was getting the right feed and amount and that his weight looked good I was just sort of wondering. Also the nutritionist just did a hay analysis on our hay and it came back great.

And I know he's a TB so it's typical of him to have this build. Although he is on the thicker side of the breed which, is nice. His work basically consists of 5 days a week. 2 days a week are strictly out of the ring on trails or in the field where we walk a little and trot and canter hills and flat for around an hour. The other two are flat ring work days where I work on his bending and other maneuvers. I usually try to jump him once a week or set up some pole exercises. He's been very good at riding long and low especially over poles to stretch and work that top-line. He still occasionally has his moments where he will pull a giraffe and poke his nose into the air for a few seconds but he's 5 and learning but has been consistently round and forward for the most part.


(oh and if there is any secret to ripping abs for humans feel free to share as the previous poster mentioned. :p)

[slc2]

ripping abs, which i used to have eons ago, from doing nothing more than 150 ab curls a day, and 150 side ab curls. no equipment, books, videos needed, just do ab curls. boring, but effective.

if you post a picture of your horse maybe it would help. it sounds like everything is ok, and that you're doing a great job of feeding, worming and conditioning him. if his belly just isn't naturally tucked up that's not so bad.

my trainer used to have a warmblood with a very long back and a big belly, she galloped him on hills to try and tighten him up and muscle his back. i think working in a rounder deeper posture can help too, but watch out where you open THAT can of worms on this bb, LOL.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Lol, I know what you mean.

Yeah I will take a picture today when I go to the barn. I have a lesson with my trainer too and I will see what input she can offer. Thank you for all the suggestions/comments for far everyone.

[magickmeadow]

I have a 17 year old 17.2 OTTB 4th level horse that was about 300 lbs light in October of last year. I did the usual thing - worming, teeth, vet check, etc. I put him on Strategy AX with Natural glo(sic) and alfalfa hay. He is gray and has some melanoma's. That combination got the weight back on but he is the type of horse that gets bored with his feed. He quit eating all of his feed. I checked with a previous owner who said he didn't care for some pelleted feeds long term. I put him on a SmartPak program with daily wormer, senior supplement, and horseshoe's friend. I recently switched him to LMF Showtime. I was able to quit using the Natural glo. Big Horse really likes the LMF and the weight seems to be staying on. He has a stall but free access to about 2 acres of pasture. As far as physical exercise, we do work on our lateral stuff but I also do some small hills. Big Horse is a bit spooky on the trails but is getting better. I also do one day a week of work on the side reins. The combination of everything has put the muscle and weight back on him but it is a delicate balance.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

He likes pretty much any feed I toss him. However he seems to thrive on a pelleted feed with a little added rice bran. The only things I will not do is use draw reins, side reins or anything like that. Don't mean to open a can of worms it's just a personal preference. ;)

[slc2]

If you only work him on a really long, loose rein, he won't get the topline development. But that doesn't mean the exercises to develop those muscles require a tight, harsh rein or side reins or any other 'auxilliary equipment'.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I kind of work him on a combination of reins...for lack of a better term.
For the most part of the ride he is using his hind end, light in the front, round and lifting with his back. His canter the other day felt like I was riding a rubber band, so flexible and soft it was amazing. ANYWAYS...I let him stretch out and ride long and low here and there but not for the whole ride. I let to let him stretch after working hard and during warm-up.

[slc2]

sounds really good. given all that the belly is probably no problem at all.:D

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Here are some pictures of mentioned horse...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/Bubbles6/CJ2.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/Bubbles6/CJ3.jpg

In most of the pictures today he was either standing funny or sleeping as usual. ;)

And this last one is just for cuteness.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/Bubbles6/CJ1.jpg

[CamdenLab]

If you find an answer to this, please let me know!

I have the same issue w/ my TB gelding. Some have suggested a chiropractor to make sure his lower back/pelvis is OK and it's something that I'm planning on doing, but after he settles in to his new barn.

[pintopiaffe]

How much protein is he getting? Horses need protein to build muscle. Protein is not as evil as once thought. Carbs, especially sugar carbs like mollasses are problematic, but you need enough protein to build topline.

I put probably close to 200lbs on my stallion a year or so ago, it was ALL in topline. (read: outgrew yet another $addle. :uhoh:)

Combination of: work--moving from First into Second, and working some in Third. Tons and tons of transitions, and SI, HI, HP. Counter canter. Asking for more sit. Asking for more lengthen. Basically, just doing dressage. ;)

Diet: Rice Bran at full recommended amount. (1lb for his size) 2 cups (volume) BOSS, 1 cup (volume) whole flax. Diamond V XP yeast. He doesn't get soy or alfalfa, so the rest of his diet is free choice fairly poor grass hay (as in clean & sweet but poor nutrition) beet pulp, a little bit of oil, and 2-3lbs Whole oats/day. BUT, what finally put him over the top in developing TOPLINE not just gaining weight and muscle, was the addition of two tiny scoops of Lysine. I actually was able to start backing down on the fat products, and these days while he is not as bulked as he was--due to lack of work mostly-- he's only getting the beep, oats, oil, flax and lysine, and still has kept topline nicely.

Do you feed a probiotic? A good one can help the 'poverty belly' look even in well sprung TBs.

[pintopiaffe]

Oh, the picture just finished loading for me, what a nice looking guy! :yes:

[MelantheLLC]

Vet-chiro taught us belly lifts, where you use your fingertips/nails/comb or such, run under the belly line behind the girth until the horse tucks his tummy and lifts his back. Reward with a treat and build up repetitions slowly. This is just a sort of "sit-up" for horses; pure contract and hold to work those tummy muscles.

Remember to treat, because they will quit responding to the initial tickle pretty quickly if that's all you do.

[cleozowner]

TF, I don't have any great advice, but we sound like we have the exact same horse--only mine is a mare (well, neuter--she has no ovaries). I have been working her pretty hard for months with the occasional week-long break for her mental health. She JUST started getting a visibly improved topline about a month ago, but the change is so subtle that only the BM and I have noticed it. I have seen a change in her saddle fit, though, over the past few months and had to get a wider tree.

[JB]

How much protein is he getting? Horses need protein to build muscle. Protein is not as evil as once thought. Carbs, especially sugar carbs like mollasses are problematic, but you need enough protein to build topline.

BUT, what finally put him over the top in developing TOPLINE not just gaining weight and muscle, was the addition of two tiny scoops of Lysine. I actually was able to start backing down on the fat products, and these days while he is not as bulked as he was--due to lack of work mostly-- he's only getting the beep, oats, oil, flax and lysine, and still has kept topline nicely.


Yes!! Your "2 scoops" of lysine probably gave you 6-10gm, and that is often what is needed, especially if not feeding a ration balancer, if the horse is on grass/grass hay.

I see a horse who 1) needs a few more calories (and I would make them as low/no sugar as possible) and 2) needs more protein.

[rileyt]

I just read your first post, and then looked at the pictures... but here's my response:

I don't think your horse has a "belly".. at all. He has a fairly large barrel, and he will always have it, regardless of what you feed him. It's structural. He does not look wormy or fat to me.

I think he could use a bit more feed. (I'll let you decide what). For my taste, he's still a wee bit on the skinny side. I like my horses fit, not "hunter-fat"... but I think he could use a few more groceries.

Developing topline is a different thing. The correct way to do it is by building muscle (which takes time and correct work). The "other" way to do it is to feed your horse until he's fat... that always smoothes out the look of the topline, but you really haven't done anything to help his performance. And, if you go that route, you will certainly have a big belly to go with it.

[chelseaaa217]

I also just read your first post and took a look at the pictures.

I also have a Thoroughbred who I have been trying to re-condition after him being sick for awhile. Conveniently, my vet owns my barn and has commented on his weight as he progresses. He said that with Thoroughbreds, you really are never going to get rid of seeing their ribs- or you shouldn't, at least. He said that ribs on a TB are a sign of fitness and health, because that is simply how their body is built. So really the fact that your guy is muscled up as he is AND shows a little ribs is OK, actually desirable.

I know that its hard to accept that because, as a TB owner, we would always rather see our horses nice and round in that area! But the fact of the matter is a TB who you cant see a little ribs on is either out of shape or (though this rarely happens) overweight.

So really I think that the amount of feed you are giving him looks like it is doing a great job. For a TB, he really does not look skinny to me. Unfortunately a lot of owners of TBs want their horses to look like warmbloods, and they simply aren't built to ever look like that. In fact, its healthier for your horse to be a little on the leaner side- less stress on joints and legs.

However, I have been finding that hillwork has really done wonders for my guy in general- his topline, all the way down his back, and his hind end has become much more muscled. Hope this helps, and remember I'm just passing on the word from my vet.