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lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:58 AM
i am quite interested to hear who you lot on the other side of the pond think is going to feature in the medals and why. i am looking for objective comment rather than gung ho patriotism. thanks :) by the way i am in englnd if you are wondering!

BarbB
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:10 AM
I would be surprised if Phillip Dutton is not in the medals. I think that he and Connaught are at the top of their game right now.

flyingchange
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:57 AM
Well ... hmm... there are several riders who I don't really know anything about going, and then several campaigners.

It is really hard to forecast without knowing whether the XC is going to be up to snuff or not. If it is a soft XC, then i would be thinking more about the dressage specialists as medal contenders (Germany).

If XC is a true Olympic, four star course, then I would say NZ, England, and the Ozzies for team medals, and for individuals, Toddy, Phil, and Nicholas.

It's just really hard for me to have an opinion without knowing whether the XC is going to factor in or not.

bambam
Jul. 17, 2008, 10:18 AM
For team placings, unless the xc is a real 4 star, I think the team medals will be Germany, UK and France. Sorry US but I just don't think it is likely we will do it but who knws? I do think there might be an individual US medal- either Philip or Amy would be the ones I think most likely (Poggio's dressage at Rolex last year was not even recognizable from what it was 4 years ago and we know the horse can jump).

tle
Jul. 17, 2008, 10:39 AM
From what I understand and have always understood, the olympics is NEVER a true 4*. 3* at best.

Ilex
Jul. 17, 2008, 10:40 AM
Love Parkmore ED....such a cool horse.

Miner's Frolic & Tina Cook....a favorite pair of mine.

Team Fredericks....both of those horses and riders and just wonderful.

Nicolas Touzaint (sp).....beautiful rider.

Ingrid Klimke is amazing.

My VVVVVERY favorite though.....Becky Holder & Comet!!!

purplnurpl
Jul. 17, 2008, 10:45 AM
what ever happened to Nicolas Touzaint and that amazing Gray? Galan de Sa....


I know he was unsound at the finish of the last Olympics. And then I found a bit on the web with Nic saying "I knew Galan would recover and come back" But then I haven't seen or heard anything of him since then....?

Amy is going to do very well with Poggio.
If Becky has a good go, it'll be great. They are either great, or not great. lol.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 11:00 AM
thanks for all replies so far, anyway i think the xc though it will not technically be a four star will be draining enough with the heat and humidity and the going may well be exceedingly wet.
as for Nicholas Touzaint and his fabulous grey, well they have been seen out to goood effect earlier in the season but if it is not right then Nico has another couple to choose from!

CookiePony
Jul. 17, 2008, 11:41 AM
Personally...I so want Becky and Comet to win. Sharon Hunt and Tankers Town are another pair that I love.

However, the individual favorites, as I see them, are the Frederickses, Touzaint, and Dutton. Fox-Pitt, Tryon, Holder, and Todd are real threats.

But of course we don't know what the courses will be like, so...

ponyjumper4
Jul. 17, 2008, 12:16 PM
the Olympics has never been a 4 star, more a 3 star

LAZ
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:17 PM
My pick is Headly Brittanica.

(Partly because I'm trying to get my mare in foal to Jumbo!)

Crazyabouteventing
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:26 PM
Gee, I think you are underrating our own US team, one knows not to be too "cocky" (thats an Aussie expression perhaps) but h*ll pound for pound I think the US team is right there in the team medals.

Amy & Heidi could surprise a lot of people I think and well Phillip is icing on the cake.!!

We have a great great team.!:yes:

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:31 PM
the Olympics has never been a 4 star, more a 3 star


Athens aside....and the "individual " course in sidney....WHICH Olympics do you feel was not a true four star?!!!

tle
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:42 PM
It was my understanding that in order to "allow" as many countries to compete as possible, that the course was always designed more as a 3* instead of 4*. Which was one of the "explanations" as to why the Olympics is NOT the pinnacle of the sport.

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:56 PM
It was my understanding that in order to "allow" as many countries to compete as possible, that the course was always designed more as a 3* instead of 4*. Which was one of the "explanations" as to why the Olympics is NOT the pinnacle of the sport.

This was PART of the thought process when the "individual" competition was added...and in part because the Olympic commitee did not want to award TWO medals for ONE competition. This encouraged nations who did not have teams but individual riders who "qualified" to compete but did not have the numbers to make a team. The Individual courses were less testing for that purpose. Before then the Olympic courses were 4 star and asked four star questions. When the foramt was altered and they did away with the two seperate courses in 2004...the challenge then became of one course, testing the best, but allowing "lesser" nations a chance to complete. Athens did NOT reflect this...the CD chose to dumb down the course. This could have been a way to cut costs as there was very little need to build in "options/easier" routes as the designed course was deemed within the ability to accomodate the different levels of those competing.
I am thinking that we may just be surprised at the course in HK...that is if they build a true four star AND build options....that is always a possibility. But to convince yourself that the Olympics is an easy three star is foolish as the specs allowed for course design do infact inclulde four star questions, if the CD chooses to do so.
BEFORE Athens...the courses were rated four star by the FEI (still are I believe) but more importantly they were infact rated four star by even the most of experienced riders.

pwynnnorman
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:57 PM
Miner's Frolic, Miner's Frolic, Miner's Frolic!!!!

That's my hope...

Logic argues to me, however, that you need only look at the Barbury top tens to find the top finishers and teams--it's gonna be all about excellent dressage and four-fault-or-fewer stadium. Those with top dressage scores will have one more more rails in hand...

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 01:57 PM
It was my understanding that in order to "allow" as many countries to compete as possible, that the course was always designed more as a 3* instead of 4*. Which was one of the "explanations" as to why the Olympics is NOT the pinnacle of the sport.


Did you quote that from wickapedia???

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 02:11 PM
the Olympics has never been a 4 star, more a 3 star


The word "never" concerns me. This would suggest that you are not old enough to look past the last Olympics or have not been to enough Olympics and four stars to make this judgement.
I would ask those who have competed at the Olympics, athens excluded, if they agree with this statement.

tle
Jul. 17, 2008, 02:34 PM
Did you quote that from wickapedia???

Why would you say that? I said "to my knowledge" and that's what I mean. Been around the sport long enough to not have to look at wickapedia for every thought I post.

JER
Jul. 17, 2008, 02:57 PM
Back to the original topic --

I'd be thrilled to see a gold medal go to either Mary King or Lucinda Fredericks. Both, if possible!

And Mark Todd on the podium again would be a treat.

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 03:03 PM
Some people are confused. Neither England nor the UK field a team in the Olympics.

cloudyandcallie
Jul. 17, 2008, 03:04 PM
in jumping, the Germans should win as usual.

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 03:12 PM
Some people are confused. Neither England nor the UK field a team in the Olympics.


HA!!! Yes sometimes one feels the need to remind those that Great Britian, the UK, and England are not the same thing.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 03:15 PM
It was my understanding that in order to "allow" as many countries to compete as possible, that the course was always designed more as a 3* instead of 4*. Which was one of the "explanations" as to why the Olympics is NOT the pinnacle of the sport.

you are absolutely correct though it will rate as a 4**** for future qualification purposes. Not that anyone makes a big official point of this fact.it will still be tough enough and ask some significant questions but eventing has to appeal to as many countries as possible to stay in the games. that why though the specs say they can build badminton or lexington if they want they actually wont. i have every faith that the CD this year will do a good job and in answer to my own question i cant see past team fredericks. Toddy will have to improve his dressage considerably to feature in the individuals on all that horse' current form.

Xanthoria
Jul. 17, 2008, 03:55 PM
Some people are confused. Neither England nor the UK field a team in the Olympics.


Weeeeell, since the official name of the place is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, aka the UK, or GB, or Britain, then yes, the UK is fielding teams for the Olympics. It's called "Team GB."

Here's the "Team GB" eventing lineup: http://www.olympics.org.uk/beijing2008/TeamGB.aspx

All of them coincidentally born in England. ;)

Thames Pirate
Jul. 17, 2008, 04:05 PM
I would most like to see Mary King, Mark Todd, Becky Holder, Mike Winter, and/or Gina Miles (for personal reasons) medal, but I realistically think we need to consider Ingrid Klimke and possibly Peter Thomsen (whose Ghost of Hamish has been improving and going well), Nicholas Touzaint, Phillip Dutton (always!), and Amy Tryon as well as Clayton and Lucinda, Sharon Hunt, and of course Fox-Pitt. Realistically, there are SO MANY people who could win it that it's tough to pick. I don't have a list of all the competitors, so it's tough to even guess, but those people are all threats. Who knows--it could be a dark horse (no pun intended) who surprises us all! Alex Hua Tian may not be experienced, but he has the home crowd!

The Germans are fielding a strong overall team (veteran Andreas Dibowski, Thomsen, Klimke, Hinrich Romeike, and Frank Ostholt--the latter two have been going very well lately). The Aussies' team has two strong leaders, but if Matt Ryan, who finished 8th at Badminton and has the miles, didn't make the cut . . . their "rookies" must be pretty good! I've heard good things about Shane Rose, but I haven't seen him go. New Zealand's team is no slouch either--Toddy, Nicholson, Caroline Powell, Heelan Tompkins, and Joe Meyer. I think the US has a good shot in spite of the relative inexperience of some of its members.

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 04:13 PM
Weeeeell, since the official name of the place is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, aka the UK, or GB, or Britain, then yes, the UK is fielding teams for the Olympics. It's called "Team GB."


There is no UK team in the Olympics.
There is Great Britain (England+Scotland+Wales) and there is Ireland (Rep of Ireland+N.Ireland).
That holds true in all equestrian sports, including racing, as well as most other sports in the Olympics.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 04:52 PM
you are a bitchy lot on here. any other brits want to comment before i do? obviously there is no team UK in the olympics but there is no need to be a smart arse. As it happens if it was called the UK team it would be equally correct because it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. as any fool knows southern Ireland (Eire) is a separate country with a separate team. Geographically GB is a part of the UK. Politically it is the Kingdom of Great Britain which actually originally included ALL of Ireland before Eire's independence. Northern Ireland for the information of any more smart areses is included in Team GB. Are we clear now and can we get back to the original question?

flyingchange
Jul. 17, 2008, 05:30 PM
thank you Lucretia!

retreadeventer
Jul. 17, 2008, 05:43 PM
you are a bitchy lot on here. any other brits want to comment before i do? obviously there is no team UK in the olympics but there is no need to be a smart arse. As it happens if it was called the UK team it would be equally correct because it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. as any fool knows southern Ireland (Eire) is a separate country with a separate team. Geographically GB is a part of the UK. Politically it is the Kingdom of Great Britain which actually originally included ALL of Ireland before Eire's independence. Northern Ireland for the information of any more smart areses is included in Team GB. Are we clear now and can we get back to the original question?

Ditto!

I believe that we should be looking for winners from within the top ten to twenty placings in dressage - and it will be a quick, small, and fit type that will last thru the two stadium rounds for medal placings. So....we are looking at the Headley Britannia, Poggio types -- Lucretia, I am not as familiar with the look and style of the British/European type top event horses, are there any others on your team, or French/German teams that fit that description?
Having said that Connaught is such a careful jumper if he's fit he could definitely be within medal reach. Altho not in the small category.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:17 PM
most of the german horses are quite big though ingrid klimke's is real quality. the brits should be ok with the delightful miners frolic and spring along and tankers town and cavvy but Ed is a hulking great animal. the aussies and kiwis seem to have only chosen the smaller lightweight types most of them are over here so i have personally seen them. can i post pictures on here then i could show you?
and the ability to jump clear showjumping should not be discounted as the individuals will have to jump twice. usally the usa are very reliable in that phase.

wiseoldhorseman
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:22 PM
I don't believe you can unless you are a premium member, but if you could set some into a common photo page like Photobucket, and then post the link, we could see the horses. Very interesting point that only the lightweight types were selected!:cool:

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:28 PM
Northern Ireland for the information of any more smart areses is included in Team GB. Are we clear now and can we get back to the original question?

Get a clue.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION......... N. Ireland is most definitely NOT included in team GB. Which is the point I've being trying to convey, unsuccesfully it seems. For horse purposes, and for many other sports besides (i.e Rugby, Boxing, etc etc etc etc), Ireland, the island of, is a single sporting entity. The Irish Olympic Council has jurisdiction over the whole Ireland. Therefore there is no such thing as team "UK", as for sporting purposes the teams do not follow international boundaries.
When an Irish team competes at the olympics, the WEG, in Nations Cups etc etc etc, it draws riders from both N.Ireland (Jessica Kuerten, Dermot Lennon, Eric Smiley, i.e people from part of the UK) and the Rep of Ireland.

flyingchange
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:34 PM
Did Drvmb1ggl3 say something?

I love the "Ignore" feature!:winkgrin:

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:41 PM
this person really is a butt head and clearly unable to read properly.where is the ignore button ? and give me a few moments and i will post you a link to pictures.

Xanthoria
Jul. 17, 2008, 06:54 PM
From http://www.olympics.org.uk/contentpage.aspx?page=127

"Team GB is the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team. "

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:00 PM
Found it! right here are some links to some recent pictures http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/barburysunday2078.jpg headley britannia

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/belton028.jpg tankers town

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/barburyxc073.jpg spring along

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/badminton006.jpg call again cavelier
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/20071026_2.jpg nicholas touzaint on hildalgo (at the moment third choice ride but good example of his type of horse)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/barburysunday1026.jpg ben along time
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/barburysunday1011.jpg geoff curran for ireland
some more of my pictures though not particularly relevant are on www.redbubble.com/people/lucretia and i will load recent mark todd picture and william on Ed and post a link shortly.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:01 PM
From http://www.olympics.org.uk/contentpage.aspx?page=127

"Team GB is the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team. "

i rest my case.;)

flyingchange
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:16 PM
You can put someone on your "Ignore List" by clicking on "User CP" up on the light blue bar, then scroll down and you will see "Buddy List" and "Ignore List." Click on that and then you type in the first couple of letters of the poster's name and the BB should find it for you.

Thanks for these pix! I'll have to take a look!

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:41 PM
and now i have put william on Ed, mark todd a better one of sharon hunt tina on miners frolic on there. remembr when you look at Ed remember william is 6ft 4" inches tall but the horse still looks a fair size. go here http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w79/lulukyriacou/

pwynnnorman
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:51 PM
Miner's Frolic, Miner's Frolic, Miner's Frolic:
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/Images/Entities/NewsArticles/Main/highclerekristina_sz-ko3lmbot1p02n0s.jpg

vineyridge
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:55 PM
most of the german horses are quite big though ingrid klimke's is real quality. the brits should be ok with the delightful miners frolic and spring along and tankers town and cavvy but Ed is a hulking great animal. the aussies and kiwis seem to have only chosen the smaller lightweight types most of them are over here so i have personally seen them. can i post pictures on here then i could show you?
and the ability to jump clear showjumping should not be discounted as the individuals will have to jump twice. usally the usa are very reliable in that phase.

I'm a premium member and can post photos. If you'd like to send them to me (vineyridge @ yahoo.com --delete the spaces) I'll post them for you.

I hate the way Mary King rides now. Sorry if this upsets anyone, but in my opinion she rides every jump too much in the back seat with eventer's elbows cocked to be a role model for young or old riders. It's almost as if she were afraid to give a smooth, forward ride these days.

Both Ingrid Klimke and Andreas Dibo are riding 31/32 TB horses registered Hannoveraner by their breeder Friedrich Butts. He was a master at creating Blood horses within a WB registry for eventing. Although he's now deceased, it's a testament to his mastery that two of his young horses are being competed in the Olympics by two of Germany's best.

I think the individual gold will go to Lucinda Fredericks. Not real confident about the US medal chances, since we only lucked in last time and had Winsome Adante to anchor us. Still, I do think we will be competitive.

I only wish Teddy could have been there to skip around all the jumps and show the rest of the world that it's "the stride, not the size."

JER
Jul. 17, 2008, 07:59 PM
I thought that athletes from the six occupied Ulster counties could choose to represent either GB or Ireland. Wasn't this all part of the 1999-era agreements?

vineyridge
Jul. 17, 2008, 08:13 PM
I thought that athletes from the six occupied Ulster counties could choose to represent either GB or Ireland. Wasn't this all part of the 1999-era agreements?

OT
"occupied"!? :eek:

Xanthoria
Jul. 17, 2008, 08:29 PM
crikey mate... them's fighting words.

lucretia
Jul. 17, 2008, 08:29 PM
thanks vineyridge i will take you up on that but in the morning its well after midnight here x

Carol Ames
Jul. 17, 2008, 08:42 PM
tle; I had heard the same:yes:; which, is why worlds are tougher :eek:than the Olympics than the Olympics though, neither is easy.:no:

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:35 PM
From http://www.olympics.org.uk/contentpage.aspx?page=127

"Team GB is the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team. "

Not according to the International Olympic Committee, as referenced in this Beeb (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/olympics_2012/3433557.stm) article...


According to the International Olympic Committee's existing charter, the Olympic Council of Ireland represents the whole island of Ireland.

--
It was former Irish IOC member and IOC president Lord Killanin who ensured that the OCI was responsible for all 32 counties on the island.
The OCI charter giving it full responsibility for all of Ireland was agreed by former IOC president Avery Brundage and then re-enforced by Killanin when he became president.

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:41 PM
this person really is a butt head and clearly unable to read properly.

That was totally and utterly uncalled for.

The OCI has always represented the whole island of Ireland. Riders from N.Ireland, and there have been many down through the years, have always ridden for Ireland.
Perhaps you can name one, just one, Eventer or Showjumper from N.I who has ridden for GB at the Olympics, or on any Nations Cup/CCIO/SJIO etc.

I await you apology, there was absolutely no reason to call me a Butthead, all I have done is stated fact.

Drvmb1ggl3
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:54 PM
I thought that athletes from the six occupied Ulster counties could choose to represent either GB or Ireland. Wasn't this all part of the 1999-era agreements?

Yes, they are entitled to British or Irish passports or both, and as such can represent either entity. But can you name a rider from N.I that has represented Britain? There have been loads that rode for Ireland?
On top of that, eventing in N. Ireland is run by Eventing Ireland, not British Eventing. Likewise with showjumping, competitions are run under the auspices of SJAI, not the BSJA.
If you go the the FEI homepage a look up international CCIs, you'll see the Necarne Castle CCI** is listed with an "IRL" next to it. As you probably know Necarne is in Co. Fermanagh, which is a part of the the UK. So even the FEI seems to consider N.I as Irish and not British, as least as regards horse sports.

snoopy
Jul. 17, 2008, 09:58 PM
Yes, they are entitled to British or Irish passports or both, and as such can represent either entity. But can you name a rider from N.I that has represented Britain? There have been loads that rode for Ireland?
On top of that, eventing in N. Ireland is run by Eventing Ireland, not British Eventing. Likewise with showjumping, competitions are run under the auspices of SJAI, not the BSJA.
If you go the the FEI homepage a look up international CCIs, you'll see the Necarne Castle CCI** is listed with an "IRL" next to it. As you probably know Necarne is in Co. Fermanagh, which is a part of the the UK. So even the FEI seems to consider N.I as Irish and not British, as least as regards horse sports.


:yes::yes::yes:
Lucretia, If you should so choose, I will be home in august and you can meet me at my local to debate the issue...District line to Turnham Green, out the station, turn left, walk up to the high street to the George on the left next to Barclays. Should you prefer something more scenic, then perhaps The Old Ship (chiswick) or The Dove (hammersmith) on the mall.

Eventer6
Jul. 17, 2008, 10:15 PM
What's really exciting about this sport is that 'you never know'. I remember Blythe Tait being last or close to it after dressage and taking the Silver medal, Barcelona maybe?

I think Phillip Dutton's dressage stands scrutiny in any company.

I am personally rooting for the Canadians:)

Shrapnel
Jul. 17, 2008, 11:18 PM
Ok folks here's how it's goin down....

Team results:

1. Australia
2. USA
3. New Zealand


Individual Results (Medals):
1. Lucinda Fredericks
2. Phillip Dutton
3. Clayton Fredericks

Some of you folks have REALLY underestimated this year's U.S. team. We have as good a shot as anyone this year at the medals.

GO USA!!!!!!!!!!

sofiethewonderhorse
Jul. 17, 2008, 11:30 PM
HA!!! Yes sometimes one feels the need to remind those that Great Britian, the UK, and England are not the same thing.

:lol::lol:

sorry Snoop, too funny!

LynLyn
Jul. 17, 2008, 11:57 PM
I do so hope that Becky and Comet have one of their great outings. They are inspiring.

lucretia
Jul. 18, 2008, 06:58 AM
i will be in greece with some showjumpers in august and september Snoopy so will have to pass on your kind invitation though i do like the pubs you mentioned when i am in tht part of london. and anyway there isnt really a debate, i didnt care for the bitchy tone of a comment on this thread, there was and is no need for smart arse put downs we all knew to which nations we were refering.
and if you read the posts by Jer and Zanthoria (am sure i spelled that wrong- sorry) you will see that there is no need for further discourse some members on here are quite well informed and if not able to use the internet efficiently to remedy that.
However should the greek plan go pear shaped, while you are here feel free to seek me out at any event you visit. I am very easily found until then i think i sadly need to put snoopy on the ignore list as well.

snoopy
Jul. 18, 2008, 09:55 AM
i will be in greece with some showjumpers in august and september Snoopy so will have to pass on your kind invitation though i do like the pubs you mentioned when i am in tht part of london. and anyway there isnt really a debate, i didnt care for the bitchy tone of a comment on this thread, there was and is no need for smart arse put downs we all knew to which nations we were refering.
and if you read the posts by Jer and Zanthoria (am sure i spelled that wrong- sorry) you will see that there is no need for further discourse some members on here are quite well informed and if not able to use the internet efficiently to remedy that.
However should the greek plan go pear shaped, while you are here feel free to seek me out at any event you visit. I am very easily found until then i think i sadly need to put snoopy on the ignore list as well.


:confused: I thought it would be a chance to have some great conversation over a few pints...alot better than discussing chelsea:lol:!!!

Elghund2
Jul. 18, 2008, 10:02 AM
I'm amazed at how many people are dissing the US chances. Since the 84 games, the US has won 8 medals as has New Zealand. Breat Britain has 7, the austrailians have 5, germany 4 and france 1.

The australians seem to be all or nothing. Four of their five medals are gold. The brits tend to be bridesmades as they have 1 gold medal in their seven.

So I'm guessing it will be up for grabs and the "lower" riders of each team will determine who gets the medals.

snoopy
Jul. 18, 2008, 10:15 AM
:lol::lol:

sorry Snoop, too funny!


What isn't funny is sadly some do not know the difference. There is a difference between being british and being english. Ask the scots, the welsh, and anyone else who holds British citizenchip.

Back to topic.


You know, everyone makes some good points and I think these particular Games will be a hard call. I have thought about teams and individuals and it does not seem clear cut and am excited to see how it all pans out. I do agree that it really boils down to what they will face on the second day as all combinations have strenghts and weeknesses.

pwynnnorman
Jul. 18, 2008, 10:16 AM
Ok folks here's how it's goin down....

Team results:

1. Australia
2. USA
3. New Zealand


Individual Results (Medals):
1. Lucinda Fredericks
2. Phillip Dutton
3. Clayton Fredericks

Some of you folks have REALLY underestimated this year's U.S. team. We have as good a shot as anyone this year at the medals.

GO USA!!!!!!!!!!

Shrapnel! How can you possibly, possibly leave the UK out of it? The Aussie's may THINK they have a strong team, even without Matt and whatisname, but they haven't even come close to coming up against what the Brits will throw at them.

And I'm with Eventer6 on Dutton's dressage (on Connaught). Lovely mover, some sticky changes and not the highest level of self-carriage, comparatively speaking.

If I were to bet on long(er) shots, I'd put most of my money on MF, but I'd also reserve some for Becky (for individual medals)...and a sentimental few on Poggio, of course.

Does anyone else think we've got a team for a tough course (I think we have as many, if not more, four-star horses as any team entered, don't we)? If it's tough, we'll be in there. If it's a walk in the park, we're more iffy.

flyingchange
Jul. 18, 2008, 11:04 AM
Sorry! My predictions leave patriotism out of it. I wish the very best for Team USA, and who knows. They very well could pull it off. But I rather doubt it! If I were to place a bet with my money, it would not be on team USA. I think they are, as has been said, small fish in a big pond... Again, Sorry if that offends!

I agree with Snoopy that it is a tough call though. I do think the bigger horses are going to really struggle. The smaller/wiry ones (like the NZ and Ozzie ones are going to do better with the weather, I would think).

Lucretia - your pix are beautiful. Love the one with the 2 horses - you can't see the rider's heads/faces. Very rich picture.

snoopy
Jul. 18, 2008, 11:35 AM
What makes these games more interesting, to me anyway, is that although with the modified format and phases a-c eliminated, enduance will play a bigger part on every horse as they face the challenges of an unhospitable climate. I believe it really comes down to whose horse copes the best and the mix of first timers in a team situation. Each country has lost some of their "A" combinations on the selection journey and sad as this is, it makes for a more interesting playing field. For me and with regards to the USA team they will either do very well or not well at all...no in between.
The last Olympics was a real eye opener...espercailly for the ones we would have expected to do well...both andrews came off, heidi who I thought would have finished in the medals fell as well. Nicholas lost it on the second showjumping round. Bettina who deserved to win on performance alone, she was the best but by virtue of a mistake allowed the places to change. I would say that the Athens course was not what people expected but luck (or lack there of) and judgement plays a big part of it. I do not think one can do the math on paper and come out with a confident result....this one is really up in the air. Lucinda gets the job done and that little horse has proven that she can play with the big boys and win. Whilst it is great to see Mark Todd back, my personal opinion is that he is weak on the first day. As Lucretia said, the US does well with the added second showjumping round. Every team excels in different phase but I am not confident, this year anyway, in any one team that excels in all three. As I said, it should be an exciting competition and one that keeps me away from the betting office. If I HAD to pick a team for gold it would be the germans....although they have lost Bettina, it should be noted that Athens was her best result ON PERFORMANCE in a team situation. In the past she has has trouble on XC. I think Chris and his programme have made the german team a serious contender for top honours. And I would keep an eye out on the french, they are a sneaky bunch.

vineyridge
Jul. 18, 2008, 01:15 PM
How many horses from Athens will be at Hong Kong? I know the French have one; US has one; don't know about the other "big six".

Has anyone made a list of re-runners? If Fox-Pitt rides Tamarillo that will make one GeeBee.

Maren
Jul. 18, 2008, 03:05 PM
vineridge,

Hinrich Romeike's grey Marius was in Athens and will compete in Hong Kong. A horse that to this day, has not produced one single stop xc. Very strong team-type horse and his xc rounds are pretty inspirational.

http://www.toffi-images.de/var/storage/images-versioned/59863/1-eng-GB/0641d464romeikemariusjpg1_large.jpg

lucretia
Jul. 18, 2008, 03:41 PM
thank you, flying change.
and as for large horse well if Nicholas touzaint ends up riding Galan (his preferd choice) he is one and he certainly didnt quite put in his mind blowing best in athens even before he went lame in the showjumping. i dont know about the home based Aussie horses i havent seen them but they dont really do 'warm bloods' do they. all the kiwi horses are light weight TBs. Andreas Dibowski's horse didnt go well in the sunshine at badminton this year but i am not sure that the one he is taking.
and at the moment William is taking Parkmore Ed, unless an injury occurs who is a rather large horse and perhaps not best suited but William has been around so you would hope he would know.

lucretia
Jul. 18, 2008, 03:46 PM
and as it happens i think the US will probably get a team medal because as a nation their showjumping is strong and i think they will be the team least botherd by the extra showjump round. in athens no one really knew what to expect so i dislike the result there being quoted because it was also the first one without the chase, but all the teams will be much better educated for this one.

pwynnnorman
Jul. 18, 2008, 04:01 PM
vineridge,

Hinrich Romeike's grey Marius was in Athens and will compete in Hong Kong. A horse that to this day, has not produced one single stop xc. Very strong team-type horse and his xc rounds are pretty inspirational.


Is that the really sweet-looking grey and is he the dentist? If so, I LOVE that horse. And the partnership. It's like the horse steps in when the rider stutters and vice versa.

Maryalden
Jul. 18, 2008, 04:18 PM
I think his name is Something-Something Logistik (how's that for being definitive?). He's FABULOUS!!! If you get a chance, watch the AAchen World Championships '06 Eventing DVD. He's amazing!!!:yes:

vineyridge
Jul. 18, 2008, 04:19 PM
Did the Germans have three grays at Athens? For some reason, I forgot Marius.

The weather in Hong Kong doesn't look so very dreadful to me. I've gone to Accuweather for the forecast through August 1 and to a NOAA temperature converter, and the top temperature looks to be about 92 F in the daytime and low 80's at night. Heat Index is 105 max. How is that so very different from Atlanta?

I live in Mississippi, and the HK temperatures would be low here for this time of the year. Probably are for Virginia and points South as well.

From that, I wonder if the air conditioned stables are such a good idea.

pwynnnorman
Jul. 18, 2008, 04:21 PM
Oh, I remember now: Marius Vogt Logistik! Yeah, I watched those vids, too. Kind of round you could watch again and again: sometimes it was all horse, sometimes rider, sometimes perfect partnering. They are a neat story.

JER
Jul. 18, 2008, 04:31 PM
Oh, I remember now: Marius Vogt Logistik! Yeah, I watched those vids, too. Kind of round you could watch again and again: sometimes it was all horse, sometimes rider, sometimes perfect partnering. They are a neat story.

Just to clarify: the horse's name is Marius. Voigt-Logistik is a shipping company who sponsors the horse.

Neat horse.

spotted mustang
Jul. 18, 2008, 06:09 PM
I don't know enough about the ins and outs to make a prediction; I just hope there isn't going to be another clusterf*ck like last time, with silly errors and protests and disqualifications.

So...godspeed to Bettina Hoy, may she land soundly in the medals this time

and that tall guy from NZ :)

and Karen O' Connor, even without her Teddy

snoopy
Jul. 18, 2008, 06:13 PM
I don't know enough about the ins and outs to make a prediction; I just hope there isn't going to be another clusterf*ck like last time, with silly errors and protests and disqualifications.

So...godspeed to Bettina Hoy, may she land soundly in the medals this time

and that tall guy from NZ :)

and Karen O' Connor, even without her Teddy



Bettina is not competing.

spotted mustang
Jul. 18, 2008, 06:16 PM
whoops - shows you what I know :D

well, Ingrid Klimke, then. I admire her, or any rider that competes at the highest level in more than one discipline. May she take the cake. Hurrah, here's to you, Ingrid !

NRB
Jul. 18, 2008, 10:27 PM
I don't know enough about the ins and outs to make a prediction; I just hope there isn't going to be another clusterf*ck like last time, with silly errors and protests and disqualifications.

So...godspeed to Bettina Hoy, may she land soundly in the medals this time

and that tall guy from NZ :)

and Karen O' Connor, even without her Teddy

Bettina not compeating and apparently neither is Karen O C. Check out the Times post

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1824409,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Shrapnel
Jul. 18, 2008, 10:59 PM
Shrapnel! How can you possibly, possibly leave the UK out of it? The Aussie's may THINK they have a strong team, even without Matt and whatisname, but they haven't even come close to coming up against what the Brits will throw at them.

And I'm with Eventer6 on Dutton's dressage (on Connaught). Lovely mover, some sticky changes and not the highest level of self-carriage, comparatively speaking.

If I were to bet on long(er) shots, I'd put most of my money on MF, but I'd also reserve some for Becky (for individual medals)...and a sentimental few on Poggio, of course.

Does anyone else think we've got a team for a tough course (I think we have as many, if not more, four-star horses as any team entered, don't we)? If it's tough, we'll be in there. If it's a walk in the park, we're more iffy.

Sorry pwynnnorman. How can I leave the Brits out? Its easy -- I don't think this will be "their" Olympics. Period. Yes, they have talent on there team, but after loosing Zara Phillips and Lucy Wiegersma to injuries/lameness, I think there chance has slipped away. Yes, they have "depth" and all, but there are other teams that are better. End of story.

And I honestly can't believe you think the Aussies don't have a huge shot at gold. I mean, COME ON -- The Fredericks are on fire. Their horses can't be beat. Shane Rose's horse is incredible. And so is Megan Jones' Kirby Park Irish Jester.

Also, I think the U.S. team has a good shot at the silver. All of our team horses/riders are strong, and are as good as any.

And, finally, this will be Mark Todd's return to the Olympics -- how can you not predict the kiwi's will win a medal.

GO USA!!!!!!!!!

CookiePony
Aug. 3, 2008, 10:37 PM
The complete list as of 7/31:
http://www.fei.org/olympics/References/Qualifications/Documents/Eventing%20Final%20Entries-31July08.pdf

Carol Ames
Aug. 3, 2008, 11:36 PM
placings, unless the xc is a real 4 star, I think the team medals will be Germany, UK and France. Sorry US but I just don't think it is likely we will do it but who knows? I do think there might be an individual US medal- either Philip or Amy would be the ones I think most likely (Poggio's dressage at Rolex last year was not even recognizable from what it was 4 years ago and we know the horse can jump). don'tforget to factor in th e footing,:mad: tumidity,:eek: heat and air quality; i hope they all come through safely:yes:!

Carol Ames
Aug. 3, 2008, 11:45 PM
I just looked at the start list:winkgrin: and think Lucindas' mare will find the course \ours to her liking!:yes:

Carol Ames
Aug. 3, 2008, 11:50 PM
William iam foxpitt! ca never be never be counted out .:no:, though, which of his many 4 star horses, I don't know:confused::no:

jonespm
Aug. 4, 2008, 10:33 PM
I was surprised to see that the Aussie team was so underrated with the exception of the UK based riders (Lucinda and Clayton). I guess that is because Australian eventing is off most peoples radar. The Australian based riders had to complete in two CCI selection trials - one in April (Sydney) and the other in June (Melbourne). The head of the ground jury at both events will be on the Olympics ground jury - in fact the head judge in Melbourne was Martin Plewa who is the President of the Ground Jury in Hong Kong. The results of the three Aussie based team members at each event were as follows. The Sydney cross country track (the Sydney Olympics course) was very wet and boggy.

Megan Jones

Sydney 2nd
Dressage 41.3
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 10.8
SJ-Jump 4
SJ-Time 0

Melbourne 1st
Dressage 35.9
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 0
SJ-Jump 0
SJ-Time 0

Sonja Johnson

Sydney 1st
Dressage 49.6
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 3.6
SJ-Jump 4
SJ-Time 0

Melbourne 4th
Dressage 47.2
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 0
SJ-Jump 0
SJ-Time 0

Shane Rose

Sydney DNF
Dressage 38.9
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 0
Withdrawn at 3rd horse inspection. Minor overreach in cross country.

Melbourne 2nd
Dressage 39.6
XC-Jump 0
XC-Time 0
SJ-Jump 0
SJ-Time 0

Pretty good scores in all three phases I think you would agree.

Equa
Aug. 5, 2008, 08:12 AM
Yep, totally agree. AND I saw all three horses do the 4**** test at the Sydney CIC just before going into quarantine for HK. They were all even better than at Sydney CCI. And Lucky can go even better than that.

But I can't wait to see Becky and Courageous Comet again...and Clayton, and Lucinda, and Phillip - they are all fabulous. And I'll be there in 48 hours or so! Too excitement!

Jealoushe
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:01 AM
Bettina not compeating and apparently neither is Karen O C. Check out the Times post

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1824409,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Umm..what?

RiverBendPol
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:24 AM
(http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...rss-topstories)

Well, that's a grand piece of journalism but check the date...it is old news. Since Heidi and Bonnie both had to come home early, Karen and Mandiba are now in HK, preparing for yet another Olympic Games.

Lucretia, your photos are extraordinary. Thanks so much for posting them!

mbarrett
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:24 AM
jealoushe, that article you are referring to is dated July 18. So that's an old news article. Hopefully nothing has happened to Karen or Debbie's horses in the last few days.

Jealoushe
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:26 AM
jealoushe, that article you are referring to is dated July 18. So that's an old news article. Hopefully nothing has happened to Karen or Debbie's horses in the last few days.

Thanks, I was thinking I missed something in that article, and they were just re-telling what happened!

BAC
Aug. 5, 2008, 01:13 PM
It was my understanding that in order to "allow" as many countries to compete as possible, that the course was always designed more as a 3* instead of 4*. Which was one of the "explanations" as to why the Olympics is NOT the pinnacle of the sport.

That was always my understanding also, and I have read it in more than one publication over a period of many years. The perception was that the Olympics were "dumbed down" because it attracted competitors from nations that didn't necessarily have much actual eventing expertise, just so that they could experience the Olympics. I always thought Badminton and the World Championships were more meaningful to the competitors themselves, in terms of difficulty at least.

Take a look at the cross country course in Seoul (1988?). Not that the course is easy, it certainly isn't, but some of the riders from lesser known countries are really pathetic, I remember one rider in particular almost getting unseated at every fence and literally landing on the neck frequently. :eek: My sister and I laughed hysterically watching those rides and being horrified that these people were actually competitors in the Olympic Games. In those days qualifying was less difficult than it is now though.