Greys in Hunter [Archive] - Chronicle Forums

EquusMagnificus

Jul. 14, 2008, 05:53 PM

Hello :)

Let me just start by saying that I know very little about hunters and anything related to this discipline. So I apologize in advance if this isn't a very well thought out question! But!

I just bought a beautiful TB mare. This mare being of beautiful hunter type and I am considering Cunningham for her next year.

However, knowing that I have a 50 % chance (at least!) of getting a grey (which I do like), I was wondering if it would be a detriment to future marketing of the foal?

Is there a certain prejudice against greys in the Hunter Breeding and Hunter rings? I apologize if this doesn't sound like a very important question but as I would be breeding to sell, it does have a certain relevance.

showjumpers66

Jul. 14, 2008, 06:05 PM

You can't beat a gorgeous grey anywhere and some of the best known hunters have been grey, but there are buyers that will not buy a grey horse so we do find grey to be a little bit tougher to market to the amateurs ... doesn't affect marketability to the pros.

Royal Monaco

Jul. 14, 2008, 06:56 PM

As an amateur hunter rider, the color does not matter to me if everything else is ther : movement, jump form etc.

I know very few people who really dont like greys and who would not buy a really great prospect only because of his color.

vxf111

Jul. 14, 2008, 07:06 PM

Some people don't like grays. I won't have one. But plenty of hunter people love them. The same is true of chestnut, bay etc. It's all very much a preference. I would say gray is a traditional hunter color and you will not alienate a large segment of the hunter world with a gray foal. Some people don't like them-- but some people love them. I'd say gray, bay/brown, black, and chestnut are always safe hunter colors.

Ladybug Hill

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:09 AM

Crossroads Farm

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:17 AM

As a breeder, it's like Christmas morning when the foals arrive, and when we get chrome, we're so happy! So, if they're going to grey out, we lose our chrome, and it's a disappointment. However, as a trainer and rider, I have half a dozen beautiful greys in my barn, and they're, as a group, some of the most fantastic show horses I've got! I actually love greys, I just have to remind myself of that when the foals start shedding out, and those first grey ticks appear!

fish

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:26 AM

If you plan to sell the youngster in the first two years, you may have a terrible time getting good pics unless you are willing to bodyclip. Greys go through the worst "molting" for the first couple of years, but after that seems to be ok.

I personally avoid greys, but always seem drawn to them! :D

Strange-- I've always thought the first few years with a grey were the best: first the dark, almost black, steely blue roan color, then the dark dapples, then lighter ones-- exciting and gorgeous in my book-- until they go all white and you've got all that wash to do.

Obviously this is another area in which personal preference rules. Lots of people adore greys and will even prefer them over superior individuals when shopping-- despite thorough familiarity with the grooming demands and melanoma risks. I have a neighbor like that. Some will avoid them because of the additional work when they mature. I think it evens out.

I have 2 Cunningham babies myself: a bay from 2003 and a grey 2008. Both are colts. I wanted a bay filly, but am head over heels in love with both these colts, and find that I'm having a blast watching the color changes in the grey. It looks like he's going to be the image of his Daddy (who I also watched turn from steel [with tons of chrome] to almost white).

can't re-

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:30 AM

I love a beautiful grey in the hunters!

SilverBalls

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:51 AM

I love a beautiful grey in the hunters!

DITTO!!! :yes:

I have been searching for that special grey for 2 years.... There have not been many in 2008.... at least that I have seen.... Where are they? :cool:

VirginiaBred

Jul. 15, 2008, 08:53 AM

I have bred intentionally for a grey. I adore them.

Ajierene

Jul. 15, 2008, 10:41 AM

When I rode hunters, we used to prefer being on a gray horse.

Our philosophy was that there were not a lot of grays out there and many more chestnuts and bays. In a big class, a gray is going to stand out more than a chestnut or bay and if the gray is a solid mover also - he is more likely to get a ribbon than a solid moving chestnut.

mistyjewell

Jul. 15, 2008, 10:54 AM

I personally don't think I'd want a grey, but I have to say, through al the stages, ESPECIALLY when they are almost white, you can tell someone who has put work into a grey horse as far as care and cleaning, and I walways thought they stood out when well groomed, not just another bay in the class (and hey, I have only ever owned bays).

I knwo lots of people that love greys, and lots that hate red headed mares, so I think if you feel it's the best match to your mare, then go for it. Coat color doesn't matter if they have everything else.

dbts

Jul. 15, 2008, 11:13 AM

MANY years ago when I showed hunters, grays were the rage. It was the popular color in those days.

katerenee

Jul. 15, 2008, 11:45 AM

When I was stallion shopping for my lovely gray TB mare I was tickled when the match I chose for her (based on type, movement, conformation, jump....) also happened to be gray!!! Add me to the happily breeding for gray group :yes:

RheinlandPfalzSaar

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:04 PM

I adore greys! Nothing is more memorable to me when I watch the hunters go! With that said - I own a bay!!!

genevieveg17

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:25 PM

If you are breeding to sell as a baby I would not go with grey. I have a very pretty Sir Caletto colt this year who is really nice but shoppers so far have been hesitant because of the color. I can not even give him away at this point.
I curry the guy every day trying to get some of the yucky sun bleached baby fuzz off of him so his lovely sleek grey coat will shine through but at this point he still looks pretty moth eaten. If he was a bay I could have sold him twice already.

sporthorsefilly

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:38 PM

I adore greys! Nothing is more memorable to me when I watch the hunters go! With that said - I own a bay!!!

I remember all the way back to the '60's and the gorgeous gray hunter standout Like Spindletop Please Note. There were outstanding jumpers too, like Aberali; Good Twist and Gem Twist, and another that Steinkraus rode, whose name escapes me at this time. I tried to breed my mare to "Catch on Fire" back in the 60's and drooled over Maria's Mon (TB) in the early 2000's. Love Gray!!!

I too only have bay, chestnut, and black in my barn, but my mare is in foal to Ironman and booked to Cunningham for '09...I WANT a gray. I LOVE GRAY, even knowing the washing and melanoma problems. Both the Ironman and the Cunningham will be keepers for me, regardless of color!

I also agree, the best times are at a young age, when they are dark.

SilverBalls

Jul. 15, 2008, 12:55 PM

Show me the greys!
You are right, some of the best hunters were grey... Holy Smoke, Ivory Coast, Swing Set, Devon, Rox Dene, Spiff & Polish, Mink N' Pearls, Cool Blue, Sterling, and my own horse All About Me to name a few....
A grey stands out and will definitely get noticed entering a ring... :winkgrin:

grayfox

Jul. 15, 2008, 01:06 PM

I love gray horses. But gray babies can be hard to sell. If they were all dark for a couple years it would be great. I had a gray Paparazzo that was born with gray glasses and by weaning was light gray in patches. It was impossible to get his coat looking good. I think he will be a striking white horse but he was a weird looking baby.

Royal Monaco

Jul. 15, 2008, 02:59 PM

As I said earlier, I love grey horses, but I do agree with all of you who said that they must sell a little hard as weanling when they look like a patch work...

I don't think i would have bought my mare before she was 3 y.o. Just look at those pictures:

as a foal (cutie palomino):
http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skybb2qg9.jpg

as a weanling/yearling (strange mud covered thing):
http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sky1anoo5.jpg

as a 2 y.o. (oufff whe are getting something now):
http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sky2ansns4.jpg

Almost white now at 9 y.o.:
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=84669133qdouu25dwn4.jpg

Portia

Jul. 15, 2008, 03:35 PM

Ah yes, I too love greys but can see why they would be a bit more difficult to sell after weaning. My yearling is that color-not-found-in-nature that they turn for awhile before they decide to be dark again. Part bay, part grey, part mud... ;)

GGStables

Jul. 15, 2008, 03:58 PM

Not to snatch the thread or anything, but....

OK you lot! Which is it: Grey or Gray???
:D:D:D:D

EllenAspen

Jul. 15, 2008, 04:03 PM

Webster's Dictionary defines gray as:

1 a: of the color gray b: tending toward gray <blue-gray eyes> c: dull in color

Grey is defined as a "variant of gray".

So I guess either works...

Nootka

Jul. 15, 2008, 04:57 PM

i love a dark dapple grey but i will never ever breed for one or own one because of the melonomia issue they have.

RheinlandPfalzSaar

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:10 PM

Sebastian

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:23 PM

I love greys. All other colors should be banned... :winkgrin:

Seriously, my Cunningham mare is 5 and just now starting to show signs of dapples. And, we bought her as a yearling, and she has never "molted."

Seb :)

goodmorning

Jul. 15, 2008, 07:30 PM

Seriously, my Cunningham mare is 5 and just now starting to show signs of dapples. And, we bought her as a yearling, and she has never "molted."

Any pictures? I love Cunningham :)

Sebastian

Jul. 15, 2008, 09:13 PM

Any pictures? I love Cunningham :)

They're not very good. I haven't been able to do a real "photo shoot" with her in a while... But, one shows her personality, the other shows her talent...

My Bridgette...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2905884890103651156OSOVAX

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2338964860103651156nUlTJZ

The jumping shot I just lifted off some video we did one day -- just goofing around. I'm hoping to start showing her this fall, then we'll get some "pretty" shots...that actually do her justice. :yes:

Seb :)

nsm

Jul. 15, 2008, 10:29 PM

At least in my area, grey is popular particularly in the Hunters. We sell greys over almost any color. We have trouble with chestnut, particularly mares.

Nancy

Rhyadawn

Jul. 16, 2008, 01:02 AM

fish

Jul. 16, 2008, 06:48 AM

In this area greys are somewhat popular, but hard to move until they are actually a colour. When born bay or chestnut and are in that strawberry motheaten stage (that seems to last longer than other foals molting out) just hide them behind the barn and maybe keep them there till they're 3. The ones born black that go grey are not nearly so bad, at least their colour progession seems to make more sense, dark to light.

They are truly the ugly duckling turned swan story.

Ah-- this explains some of the discrepancies here. Perhaps it will help the OP to know that Cunningham is apparently homozygous for black: he has never thrown a chestnut of any kind, with his grey babies being the kind that go "dark to light"-- a very pretty progression with no "flea bites" or "molting" look once the fuzzy foal coat that they all "molt" is gone. Sebastian's filly stayed so black for so long, I was surprised to find out that she was a grey at all.

All the remarks on how very popular greys have been at various stages has made me feel quite old. Does anyone else remember when Gene Cunningham placed a certain grey horse 3rd in PH's "Conformation Clinic," saying "the best thing about this horse is the color"? Back in the 70's, I remember it being bay and grey that were considered the "classic" hunter look, with greys being the ones most likely to give a real color advantage, being both eye-catching and tastefully conservative/traditional at the same time.

Sebastian

Jul. 16, 2008, 02:21 PM

Back in the 70's, I remember it being bay and grey that were considered the "classic" hunter look, with greys being the ones most likely to give a real color advantage, being both eye-catching and tastefully conservative/traditional at the same time.

Ditto that... YIKES :eek: , now I feel really old too... :lol:
Seb :)

Portia

Jul. 16, 2008, 02:46 PM

Which brings to mind The Horse in the Grey Flannel Suit. :)

VirginiaBred

Jul. 16, 2008, 02:50 PM

Does anyone else remember when Gene Cunningham placed a certain grey horse 3rd in PH's "Conformation Clinic," saying "the best thing about this horse is the color"? Back in the 70's, I remember it being bay and grey that were considered the "classic" hunter look, with greys being the ones most likely to give a real color advantage, being both eye-catching and tastefully conservative/traditional at the same time.

Nothing dated there. Classic will never go out of style (thank God) and will always remain steadfast. Can't say the same about fads..........

quicksilverponies

Jul. 16, 2008, 03:45 PM

VirginiaBred

Jul. 16, 2008, 04:01 PM

I have to agree with you Randee - love the greys and they are classic - in the ponies too! I can't tell you how many moms and dads of little girls that call looking for a grey or white pony that they have always dreamed of. And thank goodness, because I had 4 grey foals born this year and a grey stallion!!:)

I hear you! I really love grey. My daughter shows a lovely grey TB that we think is perfect and I raised a lovely grey stallion with Foxtrot and breed to Farnley Belshazzar whenever possible. You have a lovely grey boy also and what's NOT to love about them??????

tri

Jul. 16, 2008, 05:30 PM

My chestnut going grey still looks like a buckskin at almost 4 years old. She has a downright yellow look to her no matter how much bathing/grooming we do. How much longer until she actually looks like a grey horse???

imapepper

Jul. 16, 2008, 06:13 PM

It's funny. My favorite color is bay but I own 2 greys and a couple of the stallions that I have considered (fantasy only) for my mare are also grey :rolleyes: And I can think of 2 more greys that I would like to acquire. Go figure. For me, if they jump good, it doesn't really matter what color they are ;)

Foxtrot's

Jul. 17, 2008, 01:21 AM

Grey is my favorite colour, too, but breed a grey to a grey and if the result is a filly, you will almost always get a gray when you breed her. This means you will be running the chance of more melanoma. I have two greys, one of which has melanoma, I wish the second one was not grey, because when she is bred, she will produce grey and I'm already upset by the melanoma in the older mare.

EquusMagnificus

Jul. 17, 2008, 09:22 AM

Well thanks to everyone for their input! Grey seems to be one of those colours that is either you like it either you hate it. I love a nice polished grey but I admit to staying as far as possible from any chrome and the likes because I hate when they look dirty and as they have plenty of turnout, well, they are bound to get dirty!

My mare is a dark bay so I am not sure how it would affect potential melanomas? As well, are there any non-grey Cunningham's out there? Technically, he should only throw grey 50 % of times if I am not mistaken...

Otherwise, I'd love to breed her to Redwine but the EVA issue will most likely keep me from doing it as, in theory she'll be in foal for 2009 (Apiro!) and she'll be stabled with my other broodmare who is also in foal for 2009. And both girls should be re-bred next year if everything works as planned... But I disgress... :)

fish

Jul. 17, 2008, 10:18 AM

My mare is a dark bay so I am not sure how it would affect potential melanomas? As well, are there any non-grey Cunningham's out there? Technically, he should only throw grey 50 % of times if I am not mistaken...

There are a lot of non-grey Cunninghams. I have one, so do 2 of my friends (my vet and my feed rep.) All 3 of our non-greys are bays with white. The white ranges from a 4 year old filly with only a small star, to my 5 year old gelding, with hind socks and a stripe. I know Mary (Cunningham's owner) has also had a number of bays with her greys. I think she'd be the best person to ask about these color questions because she and her friends have bred all different colored mares to Cunningham and seen the results at various ages.

purplnurpl

Jul. 17, 2008, 01:32 PM

I used to hate grays. Until now. I own one. And I don't remembe why I hated them....
I always thought they were ugly.
But I was forced into one via trade and he has those totally cool chubari spots. I used to say those were his saving grace. : )

I was always told if you want a horse to buy train and flip, buy a gray. everone wants a gray.
I find that it is true.

you can kinda see some spots here. He was not quite 4 in this pic
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/spots.jpg

and here he is at age 7
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/dapples.jpg

I think the grays are just beautiful.
When I ended up with my gray (I was so bumbed he was gray) my friend said, well, whenever I see a gray in warmup I know I"m about to get my ass whooped.
She was right. Usually the grays are on top after dressage.