ESPN Eventing Segment?

[chism]

I've been told that ESPN filmed a segment on our beloved sport up at Denny's Tamarack Farm and that it's going to air this Sunday, the 13th. Anyone hear about it or know what time?

[Carol Ames]

I've searched:yes: but, found nothing:no:

[ksbadger]

Might have been filming filler for the Olympics. A link on the ESPN website shows that Eventing Dressage is sometime between 2am & 2pm on Saturday August 9th with XC on Oxygen at 6-8 pm on Monday 11th and "Eventing Gold Medal Finals" - presumably Stadium - on Tuesday at the same time & channel. (All times EST).

[Glimmerglass]

Might have been filming filler for the Olympics.

Interesting theory although no idea why ESPN (owned by ABC/Disney) would do anything for the Olympics as NBC Universal/General Electric has exclusive Olympics coverage rights;) NBC Sports [and broadcasted over their vast network channel holdings - from USA to Bravo] will use select footage of previous competitions and historic events aired on other networks but would never acquire outright a complete segment produced by a rival network.

[nature]

From a post by specialk on another thread

"He was also hosting ESPN who was at Tamarack to film and interview him for an upcoming special they will be airing Aug 12th at 7pm about the dangers of eventing. This was a full day proposition. THe ESPN crew had interviewed Darren, CMP and had attended the safety summit before venturing to VT to talk to Denny. There was a crew of at least 6 or 8."

[Glimmerglass]

I'll park this here although I saw the promo for the segment and was completely turned off. Yellow journalism at its worst. My wife wasn't exactly thrilled to see all the spills as the risk is kept best out of sight and mind for her. Luckily my mare doesn't watch ESPN either ;)

ESPN Primetime Newsmagazine E:60 Returns Tuesday, Aug. 12 @ 7 pm Eastern (http://www.espnmediazone.com/press_releases/2008_08_aug/20080807_ESPNPrimetimeNewsmagazineE60ReturnsTuesda yAug12.htm)

Eventing: the most dangerous Olympic competition and also considered the world’s deadliest sport;

Segment description

As the Olympics begin in China, few fans are aware that one sport they will be watching is now considered the most dangerous in the world – statistically more dangerous than Formula One racing, boxing, or mixed martial arts. That sport is the equestrian discipline called Eventing: a triathlon for horse and rider involving dressage, show jumping and cross country. Over the last 18 months, fourteen Eventers around the world have been killed in cross-country competition. E:60 and correspondent Jeremy Schaap take an up-close look at the sport, in search of answers to questions being raised by riders in the Eventing community: Why has the sport become so dangerous? Who, if anyone, bears responsibility for the surge in rider deaths and injuries? And what can be done to make the sport safer?


Not to add to the debate but the comparison to Formula One is idiotic. In order to drive an F1 car (excluding privately owned cars and historic/club racing) you have to possess an FIA Super Licence and they are not given out like Pez.

At any moment on this entire planet less then 50 individuals possess such a license. Only 20-some drivers are active F1 drivers in contention for points, the balance are a mix of retired drivers and factory/team test drivers who can stand-in should there be injuries.

Not to mention despite the high speeds of F1 that sport is perhaps the most regulated automotive sport you'll watch. Nothing goes on without some restriction or extreme scrutany. Hence in recent years it's become downright dull as dish water.

[tx3dayeventer]

Yea its the 12th @ 7pm Eastern. The show is called E:60 and is on ESPN

[KSevnter]

My husband said he heard discussion of it on the radio yesterday. I am assuming it was probably the ESPN station on Sirius or something. All he said was we better get some real PR people involved in our sport soon or we might lose it. "It isn't like Joe Montana retired as a quarterback and was put in charge of the NFL." (Obviously, I am not referring to Denny or Jimmy etc., but rather the riders "in charge" who who think running an athletic organization has anything to do with the nuances of the sport itself.)

[RAyers]

No, it is not idiotic as they were only commenting on the statistical risk. It has nothing to do with abilities, licensing, money,... The numbers show the risk to top level participants regardless of sport.

Spend some time reading Life at the Limit. It is about the level of safety efforts made to make a sport that killed and maimed on a regular basis into the something that can be survived. I assume by your comment you were happier when drivers were killed. I think F1 is just as amazing as it was with Keke, Niki, Mario and others.

My take is that from the questions posited, this piece goes right along with the idea that those who participate in the highest levels of a sport may NOT be the best to manage the sport.

Reed




Not to add to the debate but the comparison to Formula One is idiotic. In order to drive an F1 car (excluding privately owned cars and historic/club racing) you have to possess an FIA Super Licence and they are not given out like Pez.

At any moment on this entire planet less then 50 individuals possess such a license. Only 20-some drivers are active F1 drivers in contention for points, the balance are a mix of retired drivers and factory/team test drivers who can stand-in should there be injuries.

Not to mention despite the high speeds of F1 that sport is perhaps the most regulated automotive sport you'll watch. Nothing goes on without some restriction or extreme scrutany. Hence in recent years it's become downright dull as dish water.

[Glimmerglass]

No, it is not idiotic as they were only commenting on the statistical risk. It has nothing to do with abilities, licensing, money,... The numbers show the risk to top level participants regardless of sport.

Spend some time reading Life at the Limit. It is about the level of safety efforts made to make a sport that killed and maimed on a regular basis into the something that can be survived. I assume by your comment you were happier when drivers were killed. I think F1 is just as amazing as it was with Keke, Niki, Mario and others.

Seriously you really mean to suggest that is my thinking? In the most polite tone I'd say to you how about stepping back from the computer for a bit and think again - really long and hard. You may rule the roost on this forum but that does not give you room to be so disrespectful.

[denny]

ESPN interviewed me, among others. I know they had little success getting interviews with some riders, who wouldn`t talk with them.

Their take on what`s happening is that at the same time that the sport was trying to attract more new people, get more tv, etc, the technical aspects of xc were escalating, so that there was simultaneously a need for great rider expertise and numerous less experienced riders attracted to the sport, not a good recipe for safety.

I think that`s what their slant will be.

[JAM]

Why is this yellow journalism at its worst (particularly since we haven't seen the actual piece yet)? The facts are unfortunate, but they are the facts.

The comparison to Formula 1 doesn't seem so idiotic. One of the points that many posters have made on these threads is that too many unqualified people are allowed to compete the uppermost levels where the equine and human deaths are occurring, and that the unqualified nature of the riders is the cause of most if not all of the deaths and serious injuries. I don't know if I agree with that in total, but it may explain some of the incidents and partially explain many of the others. Perhaps if the uppermost levels were limited and more tightly regulated as Formula 1 is, there would be fewer deaths.

I think the outside scrutiny is a good thing, because as it is the insiders seem unwilling to do anything more than symbolic efforts such as the safety summit and point fingers at the so-called safety issues at the lower levels.

I'll park this here although I saw the promo for the segment and was completely turned off. Yellow journalism at its worst. My wife wasn't exactly thrilled to see all the spills as the risk is kept best out of sight and mind for her. Luckily my mare doesn't watch ESPN either ;)

ESPN Primetime Newsmagazine E:60 Returns Tuesday, Aug. 12 @ 7 pm Eastern (http://www.espnmediazone.com/press_releases/2008_08_aug/20080807_ESPNPrimetimeNewsmagazineE60ReturnsTuesda yAug12.htm)



Not to add to the debate but the comparison to Formula One is idiotic. In order to drive an F1 car (excluding privately owned cars and historic/club racing) you have to possess an FIA Super Licence and they are not given out like Pez.

At any moment on this entire planet less then 50 individuals possess such a license. Only 20-some drivers are active F1 drivers in contention for points, the balance are a mix of retired drivers and factory/team test drivers who can stand-in should there be injuries.

Not to mention despite the high speeds of F1 that sport is perhaps the most regulated automotive sport you'll watch. Nothing goes on without some restriction or extreme scrutany. Hence in recent years it's become downright dull as dish water.

[denny]

One other aspect---We were having a pony club sponsored event here the day ESPN came, and they shot tons of lower level stuff, interviewed kids, parents, etc.

We all tried to point out that what was happening at the very top wasn`t necessarily representative of the bulk of eventing, the "other" 95%, but that may or may not come through.

[retreadeventer]

First of all, a 5 second clip of a horse gutting on a big log while the rider flips off forward does more to harm this sport in the short, long or medium run than any 500 posts on this thread or any other.

There is an URGENT NEED IMMEDIATELY for some serious professional PR. I don't give a rat's [patooty] about who, what, Formula 16 or what 10 percent riders did or did not do. The entire sport is painted with the same brush, and unfortunately, it's an immediate, in your face, right now brush.

WE DO NOT HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS IT.
USEA and USEF need to IMMEDIATELY address the television and other press the sport is receiving. I will be watching what the media outlets of these two groups are doing. Please if you care email both organizations with a blizzard of concerned emails and suggest, ask, hell, demand they do something with PR ASAP.
The Olympics give horse sports a well known boost in popularity and with additional coverage this year, more than before, our PR efforts need to be immediate, positive, forward thinking and just as numerous and "out there" as they possibly can be. I view this as a public relations emergency.

Excuse the shouting but I saw the clip and promo and was aghast.

[LexInVA]

At this point, I'm not sure what could be done in regard to what has just happened but after taking a good hard look at both organizations I think that what people need to realize is that neither has the ability or resources to do anything PR related as far as the world at large is concerned which includes hiring a PR agency. Though I suspect Mason Phelps would gladly offer his useless and extravagantly expensive services, the sports (collectively) need to speak for themselves instead of being spoken for. What that ultimately means in terms of what to do next, I don't know. But I do think that the first step is to simply open up the sports to the public (not necessarily just the media mind you) in a way that is easily accessible without all the agendas and spotlight whores and give them a chance to see what the ruckus is all about.

[JAM]

The problem is that, in an effort to absolve themselves of their failure to exercise their authority to do something, anything concrete to address the safety issue at the highest levels, the poobahs have boxed themselves into a position that the real safety problem is at the lower levels and with unqualified riders who are not exercising "rider responsibility" by moving up too quickly. So, given that this is what they apparently believe, what is the PR message that they could give? They're obviously not prepared to say anything more than what DOC said on the HBO segment.

First of all, a 5 second clip of a horse gutting on a big log while the rider flips off forward does more to harm this sport in the short, long or medium run than any 500 posts on this thread or any other.

There is an URGENT NEED IMMEDIATELY for some serious professional PR. I don't give a rat's [patooty] about who, what, Formula 16 or what 10 percent riders did or did not do. The entire sport is painted with the same brush, and unfortunately, it's an immediate, in your face, right now brush.

WE DO NOT HAVE TIME TO DISCUSS IT.
USEA and USEF need to IMMEDIATELY address the television and other press the sport is receiving. I will be watching what the media outlets of these two groups are doing. Please if you care email both organizations with a blizzard of concerned emails and suggest, ask, hell, demand they do something with PR ASAP.
The Olympics give horse sports a well known boost in popularity and with additional coverage this year, more than before, our PR efforts need to be immediate, positive, forward thinking and just as numerous and "out there" as they possibly can be. I view this as a public relations emergency.

Excuse the shouting but I saw the clip and promo and was aghast.

[retreadeventer]

Well they HAVE to think outside the box or someone needs to tell them, you are going to lose your job (if the sport takes a hike, surelyl their nice jobs will too). A good pr firm will come up with numerous strategies quickly, and I think they would be surprised and pleased with the ideas. But they have to get these people on board. ASAP. People that do office work, people that run the team, people that select riders, people that manage rules don't have the expertise nor background to do PR at a professional level. Leave it to the pros.

[Eventer-n-SC]

I heard Tuesday the 12th at 7pm on ESPN.

[JER]

Not to add to the debate but the comparison to Formula One is idiotic. In order to drive an F1 car (excluding privately owned cars and historic/club racing) you have to possess an FIA Super Licence and they are not given out like Pez.

At any moment on this entire planet less then 50 individuals possess such a license. Only 20-some drivers are active F1 drivers in contention for points, the balance are a mix of retired drivers and factory/team test drivers who can stand-in should there be injuries.

Not to mention despite the high speeds of F1 that sport is perhaps the most regulated automotive sport you'll watch. Nothing goes on without some restriction or extreme scrutany. Hence in recent years it's become downright dull as dish water.

The F1 comparison is a very good and very relevant one.

F1 is, as you say "perhaps the most regulated automotive sport you'll watch." That wasn't always the case. Until the early 1980s, F1 was ridiculously dangerous with a distressing fatality rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_fatal_accidents). Go to YouTube and watch the horror show: Jochen Rindt, Roger Williamson, Francois Cevert, Peter Revson, Gilles Villeneuve, the indescribable Tom Pryce accident. Or just watch Niki Lauda's crash at Nurburgring -- at least he survived. And drivers aside, there were a number of crashes that killed spectators and volunteers as well.

But F1 did something right because there's been no fatalities since the tragic weekend at San Marino in 1994 when Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna died.

There wasn't much pressure on F1 to do anything different. The fans stayed loyal through the crashes and deaths and the few drivers who really stuck their necks out for safety, like Jackie Stewart, were often ridiculed for their efforts. But F1 head Bernie Ecclestone decided to make the sport safer and appointed neurosurgeon Professor Sid Watkins as medical director. And he gave him carte blanche to do what it took to make the sport safer.

F1 undertook a series of technical, medical and procedural changes that have, judging by the statistics, worked very well. They got help from outside experts, they enforced their regulations (remember Michael Schumacher's suspensions the first year he won the title?) and, most of all, the sport's leader was always prepared to stand up for safety -- to the point where he'd stand in front of the grid, with 100K screaming fans along the course, telling the drivers to walk if the guaranteed safety contingencies weren't in place. That's leadership.

And F1 didn't suffer in popularity when it became safer.

Like Reed said, Sid Watkins's book Life at the Limit, is an excellent account of what happens when a dangerous sport decides to get serious about safety. I recommend it to anyone interested in these issues.

[ezmissg]

Well they HAVE to think outside the box or someone needs to tell them, you are going to lose your job (if the sport takes a hike, surelyl their nice jobs will too). A good pr firm will come up with numerous strategies quickly, and I think they would be surprised and pleased with the ideas. But they have to get these people on board. ASAP. People that do office work, people that run the team, people that select riders, people that manage rules don't have the expertise nor background to do PR at a professional level. Leave it to the pros.

Burson-Marsteller, one of the absolutely top PR agencies in the world, was introduced at the Safety Summit. They were the team who administered/facilitated the summit. I presume that they were not just brought in on a "project basis" ... but who knows?

That being said though -- an agency has limited ability based on the directions from the "clients". They may have already made all kinds of recommendations that haven't been approved. Who knows?

[denny]

Don`t most of us think that PR is what is used to cover up shortcomings in something?
In other words, "spin"?

And until the sport of eventing implements truly effective safety measures, there will continue to be serious accidents to both horses and riders.

But I have the sense that our sport isn`t "ready" to really change the way we do business, say the way F1 racing did. Why, I`m not really sure.

But now, because of all the horse/rider fatalities, eventing is going to be looked at under a microscope, so change may be forced upon it, if the sport`s leaders won`t do it before public pressure becomes so intense that they have to do something more radical.

If we re-read some of the safety proposals on these various threads, there are many that haven`t yet been tried, so it`s not as if our leaders are unaware of things they might experiment with to make xc safer.

But for some reason, they haven`t gotten there yet.

.

[ezmissg]

But for some reason, they haven`t gotten there yet.

.

Maybe the Olympics have taken priority right now? Someone needed to spend a lot of time getting the Canadians ready?

:eek: I didn't say that, did I?

[JER]

And until the sport of eventing implements truly effective safety measures, there will continue to be serious accidents to both horses and riders.

But I have the sense that our sport isn`t "ready" to really change the way we do business, say the way F1 racing did. Why, I`m not really sure.

But now, because of all the horse/rider fatalities, eventing is going to be looked at under a microscope, so change may be forced upon it, if the sport`s leaders won`t do it before public pressure becomes so intense that they have to do something more radical.

If we re-read some of the safety proposals on these various threads, there are many that haven`t yet been tried, so it`s not as if our leaders are unaware of things they might experiment with to make xc safer.

But for some reason, they haven`t gotten there yet.

.

The problem is our leadership.

If all the incidents of the past year haven't been enough to get them 'there', real safety is not going to happen on their watch. I think that should be clear to all of us now.

[His Greyness]

The United States Equestrian Federation, in one of its three roles as National Governing Body as defined by the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act - that is fielding teams to represent the United States in international competitions - has a fundamental conflict of interest.

The USEF would like a continuous stream of hyper-competitive (aspiring) upper level riders who will push themselves and their horses to their limits in their quest to make "the Team". It also helps if these candidates have owners, sponsors or patrons who will pay whatever it takes to keep horse and rider competing internationally.

The present upper level carnage has been caused by a handful of hyper-competitive (aspiring) upper level riders who have pushed themselves and their horses beyond their limits in their quest to make "the Team" since they lack the judgment to know when they have exceeded those limits.

A strong incentive for this handful of riders to modify their behavior would be the threat of suspension permanently or for a time period long enough to miss an important international competition of their eligibility to be considered for "the Team". I see no hint of the leadership of the USEF even understanding this remedy. In fact they appear to encourage the behavior that leads to these disasters.

The USEF gives lip service to horse welfare as their highest priority, but it isn't. Competing is their highest priority. Horse welfare is important to them (as it is to most upper level riders) but when push comes to shove expensive, extensive and sophisticated veterinary treatment is preferred to giving a questionable horse three months off to recover from the stresses of competition. I am not disputing that most upper level horses get excellent care. Whether what is done to them is in their long term best interests is another matter.

[LexInVA]

Maybe the Olympics have taken priority right now? Someone needed to spend a lot of time getting the Canadians ready?

:eek: I didn't say that, did I?

Eh? :lol:

[denny]

His Greyness, you really do march in where angels fear to tread!!

But I think you say what lots of us privately think.

But, as this most recent rider death in England, yesterday, shows, this isn`t just a US eventing problem, but a worldwide problem.

And I think there`s an FEI role in there somewhere, to improve safety, but, again, that organization hasn`t gotten "there" yet, not really.

Because to have a truly safer sport, there are going to have to be real changes that many, many eventers are reluctant to make, not just our leadership.