Darren/Lainey threads need to be pulled!!!

[think-about-it]

I have been following these threads in this forum along with others and quite frankly I am disheartened that the moderators on this forum have not pulled these threads. They are going against the rules for everything we agreed to when we signed on. (by some people) I think they are a disgrace to The Chronicle to be continued to be allowed and a disgrace to the eventing community as a whole. I am sure I am not alone in my feelings and I hope I will not be alone in my efforts to have them removed.

I do not personally know Darren or Lainey, and I believe in the beginning these threads were intended to be constructive by some with their concerns for Darren/Lainey and there horses but, now they are down right nasty. I would hope that there are others with higher thinking and can see through the false claims of caring while in the next sentence they are picking apart word for word or stride for stride situations by someone that almost lost their life.

I could only hope to be as perfect as these people in my life and hope that I never falter when anyone of them is watching. However, I know I answer to a higher power (as do they) and I am sure he did not elect them judge and jury! Darren/Lainey have been dealt some pretty heavy life lessons and how and what they learn from them is up to only them. I agree with a brain injury, guidance is important however, bashing, questioning someones sexuality and making photoshop pictures of someone that was almost killed is pathetic on those peoples part as well as the Chronicles for allowing it to continue. You all wanted to stop Darren from riding 5 horses and you have succeeded so now lets see your continued concern for him (if it is real) to see these threads discontinued.

I do not feel nearly as sorry for Darren or Lainey as I do the people who have been writing the hurtful posts on these threads. Imagine some people have over 16,000 posts! Just think of all the good that could have been done in the world with the time and effort that was put into all those posts. They are the ones that need the real help. Unfortunately, they probably wont be able to look deep inside themselves and see what kind of people they really are. They will reply with a snarky comment or claim they only really had concern for them. You are all asking the USEF to step up but I also see there are many people on this board making these accusations that need to step up and be held accountable for their actions as well. If you agree with me please call the Chronicle directly on Monday and demand these hurtful threads be taken down.

Thankyou

[RAyers]

I agree with you that having fun or otherwise taking advantage of someone in a position of disadvantge is not good.

HOWEVER, many of the folks who posted on these threads ARE taking steps to improve the sport and are actively involved in the management or otherwise of eventing. Some of those picking apart, as you say the "stride-for-stride" analysis were actually THERE and have valid input in both instances. Understanding can only come from the availability of the data.

I am happy to put my qualifications and efforts to be involved with, and aid in the improvement of the sport here on COTH and in those threads. Are you? These threads show that there is SIGNIFICANT concern and worry at all levels of eventing that BAD decisions are being made that affect all of us. To ignore that or brush it off as "let them be" is both myopic and foolish.

As the example, I am proud that perhaps we had a say in making Darren back off. When a TRAUMA NEUROSURGEON, someone with MORE understanding about this than any of us can conceive, posts here about how foolish it is for Darren to be doing what he is doing, I take that to heart, and I hope his handlers did too.

Reed

[think-about-it]

Reed,

I agree completely with everyones concern about what has occured in the eventing world lately. Everyone has the right to be concerned. Please understand that no where was I implying that what is going on should be brushed off or ignored. And yes there has been much valid input in these threads and I hope it did have an impact on Darrens decision to compete fewer horses this weekend, however since then the threads have taken a nasty turn (by a few) and go beyond poking fun of someone. For that reason, I believe they should be monitored. Even on equinesite.com they will pull if not the whole thread at least the unwarrented comments by some. They are a much smaller organization that the COTH so I dont understand why the rules to these threads (which we all agreed to) are not being enforced.

[Carol Ames]

As one who, was not at either event:no:, I found them helpful:yes:

[Ajierene]

I would hope that there are others with higher thinking and can see through the false claims of caring while in the next sentence they are picking apart word for word or stride for stride situations by someone that almost lost their life.

I liken picking apart the striding as much about learning as anything. I notice something, someone else picks up on something else, etc. To say no one should pick apart riding errors is to say people should not stand next to their trainers at shows and comment on other people's riding to understand what they are doing. It is to say the trainer should not say anything about a student's riding so the student can understand better their riding strengths and weaknesses. On this board, there is not always the benefit of a well trained professional to correct eyesight/interpretation issues of those not as knowledgeable, but it is still a healthy exercise.

.....I could only hope to be as perfect as these people in my life and hope that I never falter when anyone of them is watching. However, I know I answer to a higher power (as do they) and I am sure he did not elect them judge and jury!

.....]Just think of all the good that could have been done in the world with the time and effort that was put into all those posts. They are the ones that need the real help. Unfortunately, they probably wont be able to look deep inside themselves and see what kind of people they really are.


This higher power elected you judge and jury of this board, though? It is alright to judge people on this board that you know as well as you know Darren and Laine?

As far as the Clockwork Orange Parody - it is a comment on the situation and as much a Political Cartoon as one you would find in the NY Times. Maybe Darren will see it and realize how people feel about how he is putting his life at risk and how some people feel he is squandering the money they donated towards his recovery.

The sexuality comments are only comments on how those outside the community view horse people. It was not direction on what people thought of what any particular rider did behind closed doors, but a social commentary on outside perceptions of the horse industry.

[Nomoreusernames]

I'm a little curious as to why these new posters are showing up so unhappy about what is being said. Some don't seem to be reading everything that has been posted.

[saje]

I don't see the threads as hurtful, I see them as a good and frank discussion of what is currently happening to and in our sport. Yes some things said are not sunshine and roses, but one doesn't achieve much in this world with a thin skin, and I'd bet both D & L have heard worse.

As to the higher power thing, well... it may work for you but don't assume everyone thinks the way you do about it.

And if you really want to be heard and taken seriously, I suggest you not post under an alter.

Sarah Jenkinson

[Ravencrest_Camp]

However, I know I answer to a higher power (as do they) and I am sure he did not elect them judge and jury!


I really do hope that your higher power has more important things to do than keep tabs on what is posted on COTH. :yes:

[think-about-it]

Ravencrest,

It has nothing to do with him monitoring what is being posted on these boards. It has to do with being a decent human being.

[Nomoreusernames]

You are absolutely right. As decent human beings we must care about those of us who don't realize need help and the creatures around them they might not realize they are hurting.

[BaroquePony]

think-about-it,

I, for one, think it is important to discuss problems when they come up, not ignore them in hopes that "a higher power" is going to be watching over me and fix everything so that I do not have to think about my own actions, or take responsibility for my actions.

[JER]

I do not feel nearly as sorry for Darren or Lainey as I do the people who have been writing the hurtful posts on these threads. Imagine some people have over 16,000 posts! Just think of all the good that could have been done in the world with the time and effort that was put into all those posts. They are the ones that need the real help. Unfortunately, they probably wont be able to look deep inside themselves and see what kind of people they really are. They will reply with a snarky comment or claim they only really had concern for them. You are all asking the USEF to step up but I also see there are many people on this board making these accusations that need to step up and be held accountable for their actions as well. If you agree with me please call the Chronicle directly on Monday and demand these hurtful threads be taken down.

Thankyou

You're being pretty dang insulting yourself. Does your higher power encourage this kind of antipathy?

Also, if you have objections to a particular post or thread, you can flag them to alert the moderators or you can email the moderators with your concerns. I hope you've at least tried that route before calling for a mass phone-in protest.

[Platinum Equestrian]

think-about-it, Who exactly are you? Troll? Why don't you show your true self if you are concerned.

[octavian_jazz]

I agree that some posts in the thread are not at all appropriate and are rude/disrespectful and should be removed. The whole thread isn't nescessarily bad, but it's not exactly good either.

It annoys me how everytime someone posts and has a different opinion on an issue then the majority of the board they automatically get called a "troll". It's completely immature. Just because someone doesn't have 1 billion posts doesn't mean that their opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's, nor does it mean that they are posting under an alter, who knows, maybe they were just a lurker who decided to speak up.

[Platinum Equestrian]

The person opened their account today, and demands two threads need to be shut down.... that's a troll!

[think-about-it]

Platinum,

I am not a troll, I normally would never post on these boards however I felt very strongly after seeing the turn this this thread has taken in the past few days to speak up. I am sorry if you do not like what I have to say. My intent in the original post was not to accuse everybody (as some people are taking it) . My concern is with those who have taken it to a different level. (with the pictures and personal slander of sexual orientation). And for those who say it was not directed at Darren you are not fooling anybody except yourselves.

[deltawave]

Well, one definition of a troll is someone who shows up only because they feel compelled very strongly to complain about something, and then disappears. Nothing wrong with doing so, but it is not exactly a way to endear oneself to the "locals". This is a community, odd as that may seem, and generally speaking, the way one introduces oneself to a community is with a friendly overture and a little bit of introduction. As opposed to swooping down with guns blazing and invoking "higher powers" as some arbiter of human decency. Just sayin'--not the neighborly thing to do, you know?

[think-about-it]

Deltawave,

I did not come on here to upset everyone however I do not find my actions any more endearing to the community than I am sure Darren and the people who care about him find the photos and slander by the same people on this board who want that kind of respect.

[DLee]

There are definitely posts on both threads that are way too personal and have absolutely nothing to do with the main topic of the threads.

[CarrieK]

I agree with DLee, there were a few posts toward the end of the extensive Darren is Backl discussion that took a left turn and went south from there.

That doesn't mean the entire thread should be closed.

The mods have incredible powers. They can and have edited parts and deleted entire messages. It usually doesn't happen in the eventing forum, but it does happen.

I'd be mighty disappointed if we were not able to discuss any aspect of our sport, and that includes individual participants and their performances.

If the mods want to edit comments about someone's personal life, that's a rule I can live with. But if we can't discuss a mover-and-shaker in the sport whose actions we may disagree with (even though we have said time and again we all hope for the best for him) than what's the point of this forum? If I wanted a My Little Pony oohs-and-aahs type thing I'd go elsewere. I come to the eventing forum for training tips, competition tips, and adult discussions about the sport and its participants.

edited to add I think the A Clockwork Orange side discussion/photoshop pic isn't out-of-line; the ad came up in the discussion, it was agreed up that it reminded folks of the movie, and it went from there. Have to say, I didn't look at the pic, but the fact that it exists doesn't offend me.

[HORSEBACKRIDER]

Of course you came in to upset people -- don't be coy. You've made your point. No need to take on every poster personally. You diminish the validity of the point in your first post by carping at every one following it.

[poltroon]

Why would it be slander to say that someone is gay if he is? :confused: I was very glad he had a significant other to help him through this tough time.

[jn4jenny]

Deltawave,

I did not come on here to upset everyone however I do not find my actions any more endearing to the community than I am sure Darren and the people who care about him find the photos and slander by the same people on this board who want that kind of respect.

think-about-it, for all of your talk about "human decency" and "slander" and feelings that "the time spent on COTH is wasted doing x, y, and z" I find it HUGELY ironic that you've started a whole new thread to gripe about this issue rather than reporting the troublesome posts to the mods for review. Why close an entire thread if only a few of the posts are problematic?

If you think the abuse is clearly against the forum rules, then make friends with the little "!" button at the top right of every single post. If you click on that, it opens a window where you can type up a brief report to the mods so that they'll review that post. I know from experience that while the mods can't read every single post/thread in the forum, they are fairly quick to review anything that's been reported to them, and in many cases they do take action if they deem the post to be inappropriate.

[LAZ]

Think-about-it, FWIW, I'm with you. The basic gist of the threads were fine--concern for the sport, concern for the people and animals health and well being.

The issue has become when it has come off of the original well wishes and problem solving issues into side agendas and gotten ugly and small-minded.

If I were the subject being discussed I would take the concerns to heart and be mortified, hurt, and insulted by many of the other comments.

I've met both Darren and Laine. I wish them both full recoveries and a long life with horses.

Before anyone jumps on me please be aware that I am a big supporter of safety procedures and have done my bit for the sport over the last 27 years.

Lee Ann Zobbe

[Ravencrest_Camp]

The mods have incredible powers.

Must be the higher power think-about-it was refering to. :lol::lol::lol:

[snoopy]

Why would it be slander to say that someone is gay if he is? :confused: I was very glad he had a significant other to help him through this tough time.



Once this "topic" comes up it seems to be thought of like this, well as I see it anyway:

Is "so and so" gay? should it or does it matter...NO. Is it the most appropriate conversation...perhaps some see it as NO. The fact is that some people are gay, have no issue with the world knowing and could care less if someone asks about it. It seems to me that it is usually our hetero counterparts that think this discussion is slanderous, should be kept in private, should never be brought up, is shameful etc. I have news....some of us are not ashamed, and do not give it a second thought if a third party asks "the question". The problem for some posters here is that when the issue of homosexuality is brought up that is seen as "bad". "slanderous", "hurtful" ect..... this is 2008 not 1958.
I think that those very people that take exception are in fact the very people who have "problems" with the topic itself. Someone brought up that they do not care what goes on "in the bedroom"....this statement in itself is offensive. Homosexuality is not about "what goes on in the bedroom". Does a heterosexual define oneself by what they do in the bedroom? I would hope not. I would hope that we all define ourseves by a lot more than this.

[deltawave]

snoopy: clap clap clap clap

Never have understood the whole "what goes on in private" stuff. I don't walk around wondering if people are concerning themselves with what my hetero self does behind closed doors. WTF? How creepy would that be?

[asterix]

Thank you, snoopy.

[beeblebrox]

"posted jn4jenny

think-about-it, for all of your talk about "human decency" and "slander" and feelings that "the time spent on COTH is wasted doing x, y, and z" I find it HUGELY ironic that you've started a whole new thread to gripe about this issue rather than reporting the troublesome posts to the mods for review. Why close an entire thread if only a few of the posts are problematic?

If you think the abuse is clearly against the forum rules, then make friends with the little "!" button at the top right of every single post. If you click on that, it opens a window where you can type up a brief report to the mods so that they'll review that post. I know from experience that while the mods can't read every single post/thread in the forum, they are fairly quick to review anything that's been reported to them, and in many cases they do take action if they deem the post to be inappropriate."


Heh PRETTY much spot on.
Yes there are some out there saying some nasty things but there were some good discussions as well.

As far as sexuality that for me should have NO part of discussions about anyone. I am more worried about the sport and what could happen to the sport I love should some take it into their own ego laden hands at the expense of so many. Those wanting to talk about his sexuality should kinda ponder why eh?

[Fence2Fence]

Take the freedom of speech and COTH's wonderful sounding board, you have have a pot of opinions! Add in the tragedies and the immense love eventers have of the sport and the horses, you know have a boiling pot of opinions! :D

I have notice that lately the tone of the eventing forum has changed quite a bit and personal attacks have increased. While I'm guilty of sticking my foot in my mouth (keyboard?) from time to time too, I think this is a good opportunity for all of us to think about what our responsibilites are to COTH for providing this sounding board, what opinion we are expressing, and whether or not that opinion is appropriate for a public BB or is better kept to a more private conversation.

Call me a COTH geek if you want, but I enjoy this forum and have met some of the best people through it, and there are others I haven't met, that I really appreciate their interesting perspectives.

[Jazzy Lady]

It's not a secret that Darren is gay, but the way it was talked about was horrible... like it's something to be ashamed of... :confused:

Myself, the only thing I found offensive in the clockwork orange pic was the last line, where is states "currently seeking donations for his next serious injury" or something to that effect.

That is just so beyond poking a little fun. Do you think Darren got injured on purpose to get donations??? Nobody MADE people donate to the cause. Good grief.

I'm all for talking about things, but when it becomes a free for all of nast comments, it's gone beyond "being concerned" about our sport and the players in it.

[BaroquePony]

Jazzy Lady,

The reason I added the last line on the CO thing was because if you go to Darren's web site, it states something like 'all donations go to cover the cost of Darren's medical bills'. The fact that he chose to compete so soon after such a serious TBI, and apparently still has medical bills involving that injury, does not make Darren's entering five horses (iniitally) in an event look as though he appreciates the support he did get.

It is my understanding that a TBI that was that serious never gets a "go ahead" from any reputable neurosurgeon, so soon afterward, to go back to participating in an activity that can case serious reinjury.

Since he is still accepting donations to cover the cost of his initial injury, I find it somewhat ludicrous that he would put himself back into the postion of possible reinjury.

I do not think it says much for responsible behavior.

[deltawave]

I wasn't wild about the tagline on the CO poster, either. But I will say that I'm not going to be sending any money to the Equestrian Aid Foundation earmarked for someone who's riding a few months after a near-fatal head injury. That's a bad investment, IMO. :no:

[cloudyandcallie]

I had only read the articles in the coth, not the threads.
now I've gotta read them.
I don't like the "thought police" too "1984"ish.
let people post what they believe, think, want to say.
free speech means the right to disagree, and there are lots of disagreements on coth threads.

[Candle]

snoopy, excellent post. I really like the way you worded that. Since it's a valid question to ask if a hetero someone has a SO for emotional support, why is it so bad to discuss a homo someone's SO? Methinks discrimination is still very alive and well.

[Nomoreusernames]

BP: "Since he is still accepting donations to cover the cost of his initial injury, I find it somewhat ludicrous that he would put himself back into the postion of possible reinjury"


I'm sorry, but that's not ludicrous, it's disgusting. It's a slap in the face for all the people who cared.

[octavian_jazz]

It's not a secret that Darren is gay, but the way it was talked about was horrible... like it's something to be ashamed of... :confused:

Myself, the only thing I found offensive in the clockwork orange pic was the last line, where is states "currently seeking donations for his next serious injury" or something to that effect.

That is just so beyond poking a little fun. Do you think Darren got injured on purpose to get donations??? Nobody MADE people donate to the cause. Good grief.

I'm all for talking about things, but when it becomes a free for all of nast comments, it's gone beyond "being concerned" about our sport and the players in it.

Thank you, those were my thoughts exactly.

[hijumpin1]

Think-about-it, FWIW, I'm with you. The basic gist of the threads were fine--concern for the sport, concern for the people and animals health and well being.

The issue has become when it has come off of the original well wishes and problem solving issues into side agendas and gotten ugly and small-minded.

If I were the subject being discussed I would take the concerns to heart and be mortified, hurt, and insulted by many of the other comments.

I've met both Darren and Laine. I wish them both full recoveries and a long life with horses.

Before anyone jumps on me please be aware that I am a big supporter of safety procedures and have done my bit for the sport over the last 27 years.

Lee Ann Zobbe

LAZ is right. Constructive criticism is acceptable and encouraged, but this has gotten really mean-spirited. I hope posters here can at least keep it above the belt. This isn't barn aisle gossip...this is out there for all to see. It's easy for people to throw nasty punches when one is safely anonymous behind a computer.

[KayBee]

The fact is that some people are gay, have no issue with the world knowing and could care less if someone asks about it. It seems to me that it is usually our hetero counterparts that think this discussion is slanderous, should be kept in private, should never be brought up, is shameful etc. I have news....some of us are not ashamed, and do not give it a second thought if a third party asks "the question". The problem for some posters here is that when the issue of homosexuality is brought up that is seen as "bad". "slanderous", "hurtful" ect..... this is 2008 not 1958.
I think that those very people that take exception are in fact the very people who have "problems" with the topic itself. Someone brought up that they do not care what goes on "in the bedroom"....this statement in itself is offensive. Homosexuality is not about "what goes on in the bedroom". Does a heterosexual define oneself by what they do in the bedroom? I would hope not. I would hope that we all define ourseves by a lot more than this.

Very well put. I haven't read the thread, so don't have any context for the remarks, but it seems logical to me that those who find homosexuality objectionable would be the most likely to see a statement of fact about X or Y being gay as an "accusation" (or slander). This makes it highly likely that they are homophobes.

I do think curiousity about celebrities' love lives (be they straight or gay) is inevitable even if intrusive.

To digress, though, I can see the blanket assumption that "all males who ride horses (English disciplines) are gay" as being an offensive to some NOT because those who are offended (necessarily) think being gay is a bad thing; rather they may find the stereotypical assumptions that lay at the heart of the claim offensive.

[think-about-it]

Kaybee,

I debated on if I should respond as I do not want to keep this thread ongoing however, I thought it important to clear up one issue. I can assure everyone that I am not homophobic and yes I live in 2008 and not 1958. Some of my closest friends and family are gay. I could care a less what someones sexual orientation is.

If you had read the original posts regarding this issue (thankfully they have been take down) the tone of the posts with regard to the questioning/accusations of ones sexual orientaion came from a place of mean spiritedness and stereotyping to the gay community. That I consider hurtful and slanderous. It had nothing to do with a persons individual choice. I guess I was not clear enough regarding this issue in my post as I am now accused of being homophobic against the very group I was trying to protect. :(

[Nomoreusernames]

Why don't you respect the moderator and end this discussion?

[BaroquePony]

think-about-it,

I actually did read the posts you are referring to that were taken down and I did not see them as mean-spirited or slanderous. Maybe a bit off topic, but they came up on the thread in a relatively benign manner from what I could tell. But then again, I am also on your black list for posting the Clockwork Orange parody.

In your post you managed to state some things that I thought were quite mean sprited about those you were aiming your accusations at.

To ask other not to discuss the video of the accident or the striding I thought was very extreme. Would you rather no one understand anything about what may have happened so that they can go out and possibly make the same mistakes.

Some people prefer to learn from mistakes, of their own as well as those of others.

Apparently you think that is mean-spirited and negative. I find that to be rather short-sighted.