Rules Question -- Competing with arm in a cast

[avezan]

I have a friend who broke his radius and has a cast from wrist to elbow. He actually has most of his range of motion in his arm, but cant extend it all the way straight. It comes about 1 inch above his elbow. He took a few days off after getting the cast on, but has been riding normally for the last 2 weeks. He is planning on competing in a recognized horse trial at novice next weekend. Someone mentioned to him that it might be against the rules for him to compete in a cast. Now he is a little panicked, because this horse trials is a long trip away and he doesn't want to get there and be eliminated. Does anyone know if there is anything in the rules about competing with a cast?

Just for a little background in case anyone is wondering, this is a very good rider who has competed at preliminary in the past. This horse is young but "safe" and their last outing they finished on their dressage score of 23. This is not the horse he parted company with to get the cast. ;)

Thanks!

[BigRuss1996]

He sounds irresponsible. If he falls on that arm he could have alot more damage also you stated the cast somewhat restricts his arm movement.... so did his doctor tell him it was okay to ride and compete?
He is riding a young horse Novice....so why the need to push? The horse and more HT will be there when his cast is off.
What is wrong with people!!...........It is a Novice event not the Olympics what is waiting until it's off going to cost him!!!

[goeslikestink]

berk --go and tell him, hes risking his whole career by doing stuff now with a broken arm that he shouldnt be-- hes a [edit]

[avezan]

The horse and more HT will be there when his cast is off.
No, actually they won't.

It is a Novice event not the Olympics .
Just curious, would it make a difference if it was?

what is waiting until it's off going to cost him!!!

A lot. But that wasn't the question. Sorry. I agree, if it were me, I would take the summer off. But right now I'm just trying to get an answer to this question. :)

Thanks!

[luise]

there was a thread on this 1-2 weeks ago. do a search for it. most people agreed it was a stupid idea. If he falls, he runs the risk of breaking his arm beyond the cast. not good!

[ValleyMiss]

Don't know if there's anything in the rules about riding in a cast. However the extra weight of the cast does throw off your balance on a horse. My trainer broke her arm a few summers ago (completely non horse related) She tried to ride a couple times and decided that it threw her balance off way too much and it wasn't worth it. Tell him to take the summer off. As others have said, he'll do much more damage to his arm if something were to happen.

[evntr06]

I rode and competed (in a very low level amateur hunter show) with a cast on my arm! I also picked stalls and hallered buckets of water 2-3 weeks after the break. My doctor said not to avoid any of my daily activities if I do not feel any pain, to go ahead and do what ever you would usually do. If you do not use your arm, your muscles atrophie and recovery is that much more painful and long. The cast is designed to keep your bones aligned, and I'm pretty sure it would hold even if you fall on it!

My point is that it may be perfectly OK for this individual to ride and compete, and may actually help him in faster recovery, depending on his personal case.

Unfortunately, I cannot speak for the rules!

[Reynard Ridge]

there was a thread on this 1-2 weeks ago. do a search for it. most people agreed it was a stupid idea. If he falls, he runs the risk of breaking his arm beyond the cast. not good!

The OP didn't ask if it was a good idea or not. Just if it were legal.

Calling Janet! :lol:

[avezan]

Thanks luise for the heads up. Here is a link to the other thread from a few weeks ago: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=154345

I appreciate everyone's concern. I don't want to go into the details, but let's say this event is very important to him. No pain, ever. He fell on a Saturday, went to the ortho on Monday at the insistence of his girlfriend. Had it rechecked earlier this week. Doctor said exactly what eventer06's doctor said. continue daily activities.

So, I don't want to debate whether he should or shouldn't. Click on the link above for that debate. What I really need to find out is whether there are any rules against him competing with a solid cast. He has a call in to the TD, the USEF and I think the USEA. So far, noone he has spoken with knows the answer. I'm not sure if he has gotten in touch with all the right people yet. He will get a note from the doctor to bring.

Thanks!

[avezan]

The OP didn't ask if it was a good idea or not. Just if it were legal.

Calling Janet! :lol:

Thanks RR. I just changed the title. Maybe this will get the rules gurus attention!

[LLDM]

If all he wants is a technical answer - not a practical one - why not just call the USEF and the organizers? It doesn't matter what we think. Tell him to read the rules and then get on the phone. Tell him to get the names and job descriptions of the people who who tell him it's allowed (if anyone does).

Near as I can tell (and I am sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) only the TD the GJ (or other judge?) can give him a TE. Maybe the organizer cold prevent him from riding, but not according to the Darren threads. Your friend just needs to do his homework for real - not have you do it for him on a BB. If he wants a legal answer, that is.

SCFarm

[avezan]

LLDM, please read above post. The person from USEF who (they thought) could answer it was on a flight. so far no definitive answers. I thought I would assist my friend and post here to reach a broader audience.
Thanks!

[Saskatoonian]

As a practical matter, if I were your friend I'd want to talk to the TD, if the question's not definitively covered by the rules. I've gotten different answers from the rules gurus and TDs at events, and let's face it, it's the TD making the call your friend cares about. Having spent 6 weeks in a similar cast riding every day (schooled XC the day I got it on - made me feel much better about the whole thing), I hope he has a blast. ;)

[smilton]

I competed (stadium jumping) with a cast for 6+ months while I postponed surgery until after nationals. I couldn't do any more damage than I had already done so there wasn't alot of risk involved. With gloves and a long sleeve shirt no one notices. Unfortunately mine was painful but during the 6+ months the arm actually healed on its own and I didn't have to get a plate and a rod put in.

[luise]

tell him to wear a jacket and long sleeves for XC, and no one will see it!

[LLDM]

LLDM, please read above post. The person from USEF who (they thought) could answer it was on a flight. so far no definitive answers. I thought I would assist my friend and post here to reach a broader audience.
Thanks!

I am seriously confused by your appeal for help. No one here can give you an official answer, as this is not an official place. The best you could hope for is for some advice on who would be the most official person to give you the correct answer. But you didn't ask that.

It really doesn't matter you tells you (or your friend) that he can ride - if the TD or a judge there gives him a Technical Elimination, he has wasted his trip and money. He may win a protest - but I thought that is what you are trying to avoid.

I will say that if you get a consensus from the TD, the Pres. of the Ground Jury and the Organizer, you are about as safe as you can get. The USEF opinion will only help you if you can get it when you need it. By appeal time, you're already kinda screwed.

SCFarm

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

LLDM - sure, often enough we get in a tangle of "well I wouldn't do it" and "my sisters' coaches boyfriend said it was legal" but often enough someone (OK, usually Janet, but sometimes canterlope, or an experienced competitor or groom or geek) will know and quote the applicable rule, if it exists. So while I agree that checking with the TD is the thing to do, if there is a rule saying, "riders must wear no permanent plaster on their limbs" someone here might know it and the OP's friend could start makig alternate plans for the weekend.

Or getting out the hacksaw, and sawing carefully. ;)

[Triplicate]

Why worry - has he been in a coma and is back eventing ? Sorry, couldn't resist.
Only worry if he plans to hit himself on his head with the cast.
However, it is against Rule E308 to hit your mount with the cast,.

[Arcadien]

Well, I don't know the rules on this but have to confess (hiding head from rules gurus) I've done it!

I carefully hid the cast during all phases with sleeves & gloves (it was cool early spring, that helped). I had a big lumpy hand but noone seemed to notice.

I guess it comes down to, does he feel he's able to ride effectively this way? I felt I was, and accepted the risk that I might delay healing by being this active.

Agree with whoever said, sometimes getting active sooner that later with some kinds of injuries can be helpful rather than harmful. My ortho doc even later admitted that my riding two weeks after my elbow dislocation actually helped it heal faster and straighter than he could have guessed, given just PT!

Wishing him luck,
Arcadien

[snickerdoodle]

Invested should chime in, I believe she rode with a cast on. but it i think it was just her thumb that was broken.

[Watermark Farm]

I hope your friend is careful. I rode one-handed after dislocating a shoulder years ago, desperate to ride stadium in my first intermediate event. I kept everyone in the dark about how much pain I was in. What a fool. I have been paying for that 5th place ribbon for nearly 20 years. Tell your friend to check with the organizers ahead of time! In today's precarious eventing climate, it may be seen as a clear "NO NO!" No organizer is going to risk his event over some kid who wants to ride in a cast.

[deltawave]

So wait for the TD or the USEA to chime in. Nobody here is going to have anything more than an opinion or an idea. Go to the source. Probably there is no specific rule, and the TD will have to make the call. Get a note from the doctor that says he's OK to ride.

Like my orthopedist said after my knee surgery: "It's fine for you to ride, but definitely not fine for you to fall off". :lol:

[Janet]

The OP didn't ask if it was a good idea or not. Just if it were legal.

Calling Janet! :lol:
AFAIK, the only rule that would apply is "dangerous riding".
It would be up to the Pres of GJ to determine if he was being dangerous.
So that is who he should contact.

[silver2]

well I've done it and I know other people who have and no one batted an eye. Although that was 10 years ago so maybe they've changed the rules.

I've seen people at the jumper shows in ankle casts. That I probably wouldn't do! Makes me wince even thinking about it.

[avezan]

Thanks everyone. I got a voice mail saying he is not going. I don't know the reason yet. But I have been thinking a lot about the rules and the role of the TD and POGJ and how it relates to the comments on this thread. I didn't see anything in the rules about riding in a cast. But maybe it was hidden in some other rule that I didn't realize. I guess it is impossible to put a rule about every possible situation that may come up, and in fact, we probably don't want a rule for every little thing. The TD and the POGJ have to interpret the rules to apply it to individual situations. So yes, contacting these people was the correct thing to do. But when presenting a "case" to a TD, it is always good to have precedents to discuss with them. I was hoping to to get opinions from both competitors and officials who may have had experience with this situation. And I did! I was also curious to hear if anyone had been eliminated for riding in a cast and under what rule. But noone mentioned this. I would still be curious to know if it has occured. So, thanks again for your help.