I think I'm swearing off the box for shipped semen.....

[Mariesonny]

Got good news today! My mare is preggers. Finally after 3 tries and this is for a mare who usually gets pregnant on the first try.

This time I told the stallion owner that I wanted the semen in an equitainer and not the box. Should be the same, my vet says he gets plenty of mares pregnant with semen shipped in boxes but I have yet to get a pregnancy with semen shipped in a box. So, I'm thinking I just need to stay away from them and stick with the equitainer.

Any thoughts? Anybody else experience these problems? I know, everyone is going to tell me that they have great results with the box....

[Sugarbrook]

When the equitainer gives such amazing, consistant success why would you not want to always use it?

[Equine Reproduction]

This time I told the stallion owner that I wanted the semen in an equitainer and not the box. Should be the same, my vet says he gets plenty of mares pregnant with semen shipped in boxes but I have yet to get a pregnancy with semen shipped in a box.

No, they are NOT the same. The disposables work fine if the ambient temperatures aren't extreme and some stallions just manage to ship well regardless of what you ship them in. But, we absolutely won't use them if the temperatures are very hot or very cold and even when temps are reasonable, you still have to worry if the box gets delayed at all. Additionally, we see wayyyyy too many breeders that will require the disposable be shipped back to them AND will use it again and again and again and again. There are responsible stallion owners out there such as Edgar at Rainbow Equus who use disposables, but he uses a new one each time and "will" ship in an Equitainer if needed. And, he also KNOWS his stallions ship well in them.

Every year we get semen shipped to us in disposables that are lukewarm and the semen is sadly compromised. We also get to hear from all those mare owners who have had semen shipped to them in disposables and who have NOT had good success. Many call them semen coffins...

So, I'm thinking I just need to stay away from them and stick with the equitainer.

<smile>...It's what we recommend.

Any thoughts? Anybody else experience these problems? I know, everyone is going to tell me that they have great results with the box....

When they work, they work great! But, with the cost of everything going up, personally I'm not willing to take the risk on a disposable container. We actually recommend that mare owners purchase their own Equitainer and ship it to the stallion owner in advance in order to insure that an Equitainer is used if the stallion owner only uses disposables. It'll also save on the shipping as you can ship it out ground to the stallion owner.

And no, I'm not going to tell you everyone has great results. Living here in Oklahoma now, while we do get semen in disposables that is decent, we also get a good number of shipments that are just plain scary to look at <sigh>. Frustrating.

Good luck!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[STF]

Got good news today! My mare is preggers. Finally after 3 tries and this is for a mare who usually gets pregnant on the first try.

This time I told the stallion owner that I wanted the semen in an equitainer and not the box. Should be the same, my vet says he gets plenty of mares pregnant with semen shipped in boxes but I have yet to get a pregnancy with semen shipped in a box. So, I'm thinking I just need to stay away from them and stick with the equitainer.

Any thoughts? Anybody else experience these problems? I know, everyone is going to tell me that they have great results with the box....


Sorry to hear that, we have not had issues receiving or shipping.
We had a very busy book this year and I am in low central texas in hot weather and had no issues. All I use are disosables and we had 100% conception rate and postive responses from vets on semen quality with the less being at 65% moderate and high in the mid 80's.
I even got a Thank you card from a vet/client in KY for "making her life easy".
I have got semen in from Canada, California, FL and other places to our vet clinic and had super 80% motility with very active swimmers. Vet was very pleased. So far, no complaints on either end. Im ok with the disposables to ship or receive.

[dressagetraks]

Sigh. Now you're getting me worried. My stallion came in a disposable box last week. We did both mares from the one box, too. Fingers crossed, mares not scanned yet. I did comment on the box, having never seen one, and the vet said he saw them all the time. They also had syringes instead of baggies, which he appreciated, but I'd never seen that, either.

He inseminated the two mares, then checked the remains in the pipette from the first mare, which he said "should be warming up by now." He said it was 50%, but good motility on those motile. He also said he didn't think it was fully warmed up yet and might look better in a few more minutes. Temp was high in the 80s-90s day of arrival.

Am I doomed?

P.S. The vet did say the sample looked "well prepared."

[STF]

No your not doomed! LOL
A lot can go wrong, but it sounds like your SO had their part in order. 50% is a bit low, but it could be the way the stallion ships or a number of other factors. I would not worry. 50% of over a billion sperm is a lot of swimmers to do the job. ;)

[TrueColours]

We've always shipped in disposables and we have always had very positive comments from the attending vets as to the excellent quality and vigor of the semen when it arrives.

We have stopped using the smaller Express boxes though (and just use the ones we have left for local clients that pick up semen and its in their mares within a few hours) and have gone to the larger, thicker, more robust containers available through ITSI, with the larger freezer pack in there as well. It costs more to ship them due to their larger size and heavier weight (one lb more) but everything has arrived perfectly in them

[Equine Reproduction]

He said it was 50%, but good motility on those motile.

When shipping semen, regardless of the container it is shipped in, it is generally considered acceptable to have a 50% "die off". In other words, figuring on 50% of the sperm cells being progressively motile. If the shipment was properly prepared, the shipper would have shipped at least 1 billion sperm cells. That means you would have received, with a 50% PMS, 500 million sperm cells to inseminate. That is pretty much the industry standard insemination dose. Edited to add that while motility is part of the equation to consider, you need to know sperm numbers to know if you have a sufficient insemination dose. you can have 85% progressive motility, but if you've only got 100 sperm, your chances of a pregnancy are pretty remote. The flip side is you can have 20% progressive motility, but if you've been shipped 2 billion sperm cells, you've got 400 million progressively motile sperm - definitely a sufficient number to get the job done!

With that said, 500 million progressively motile sperm is the number at which if you have MORE than 500 million, you do not increase pregnancy rates. However, recent research shows that you can have as low as 100 million PMS and still not significantly impact pregnancy rates.

50% progressive motility is definitely decent. What we find is that many stallion owners just don't look at a sufficient number of ejaculates to have a really good grasp of motility and tend to be a bit overly optimistic on motility <smile>. We literally look at 100's of ejaculates every year and do more than our fair share of semen evaluations for determining which extender works best for a particular stallion. It is the rare stallion (although many stallion owners will insist that their's is one <grin>) that has semen that is better than 80% progressive immediately post ejaculation. If most of the semen we received, again regardless of the container it was shipped in, was 50% upon receipt, we'd be thrilled! It just doesn't happen that often <sigh>.

Good luck!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Edgar]

well , it also depends on the box brand and the stallions semen longevity. Our boxes are great and the semen even better. Reveiving at 80% motility is frequently reported by reveiving vets. We had a clearance issue shipping to Canada that took 3 days and when they finally got it to the mare, who was nice enough to wait, it was still reported as better than 60%.

[dressagetraks]

Thanks for the insights. Fingers still crossed. He is an older stallion, in his 20s - vet sounded impressed with the semen for stallion age and thought we had a good shot. You just got me worried talking about containers.

I never even got to breed anybody last year, was too busy having disasters and injuries. The year before and all prior years, I had only seen the Equitaners, so I was a bit surprised at the Express box. On the other hand, we used P&E this year (synchronized them to the mm), and I'd never even heard of that before this year. Things do keep changing.

[Fairview Horse Center]

my vet says he gets plenty of mares pregnant with semen shipped in boxes but I have yet to get a pregnancy with semen shipped in a box. So, I'm thinking I just need to stay away from them and stick with the equitainer.

Was the semen checked each time? I don't think the boxes can jinx you. :winkgrin:

If the semen had at least a standard dose of progressive sperm when it arrived, it is not the shipper.

If you are breeding on the farm, make sure you have a microscope and 99 degree water available to evaluate the semen.

I have also shipped in disposables to Canada with reports of 75 - 80% at 48 hours (it takes 2 days to get to many places in Canada. When I compare samples kept here for evaluation, I actually find HIGHER quality in the Clipper (disposable). I know another stallion manager that has found the same thing with the stallions he stands.

I usually use Equitainers, but for Canada, and any requests, I do have Clippers available.

[Fairview Horse Center]

A mare in Nova Scotia was just checked in foal today, (with twins actually), successfully reduced to one. We did ship in a disposable (The Clipper), and it takes 2 days to get there going thru customs.

[vandenbrink]

Gasp....2 to 3 days to get semen into Canada...YIKES. I bred a mare this afternoon at 4:30 pm and the stallion was collected this morning. I live in Canada, and the stallion lives in Maryland.

I'm so glad I live close to the US border. I drive it across myself because I just don't trust customs to clear it fast enough. This thread proves to me that I'm not being "too paranoid". It's worth the drive to Buffalo!!

I haven't seen an Equitainer in years. I get good results in the Equine Express boxes, but I do try to have them in my hands and in the mare within 24hours. I wouldn't do it for a 2-3 day shipment.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I have shipped into Ontario FedEx overnight without a problem, but Nova Scotia and Quebec are usually 2 days. It is not a problem as long as the stallion has good semen, and the vet is good at timing. Not so different than when many farms only collect Mon/Wed/Fri. The mare owner I dealt with used P & E to help with the timing. Driving to the US for people in Nova Scotia is really not a good option, so it is nice that we can get it there for them.

[Edgar]

So I tried DHL this year and got it overnight to NS. worth a try.

[Fairview Horse Center]

So I tried DHL this year and got it overnight to NS. worth a try.

Wow, I talked to them last year, and they said no. Worth a try! Thanks!