Stallion Prospect - GOV or ISR/OLD?

[Olympussporthorses]

Which would be the better registry for a stallion prospect? Are they both recognized by most other registries? Any help would be appreciated!

[hessy35]

Which would be the better registry for a stallion prospect? Are they both recognized by most other registries? Any help would be appreciated!


Oh... you just opened a can of worms. Personally, I'd go with GOV.

[TKR]

I lean towards the GOV since I'm familiar with them and have enjoyed their inspections, learned alot. Why don't you do some research on both (check their websites) and maybe that will be helpful. It is a highly flammable subject matter, unfortunately. You might want to privately email those who are involved with each registry and ask questions so things don't heat up. Good luck!
PennyG

[DownYonder]

One thing to consider is that Oldenburg (GOV) is the same as the Oldenburg Verband, and stallions approved in N.A. are also considered approved in Germany (and vice versa). The same is not true, however, of ISR/ONA stallions. Also, some other registries will recognize stallions approved by GOV but will not recognize stallions approved by ISR/ONA.

It's up to you which one you want to support, but I think in general, more people across more registries tend to put more credence in horses registered with/approved by Oldenburg (GOV), then ISR/ONA.

[Donella]

GOV..without a doubt!

[Mozart]

Oh... you just opened a can of worms. Personally, I'd go with GOV.

Agreed. On both counts. :winkgrin:

[Iron Horse Farm]

popping the popcorn now......................

[SBF]

popping the popcorn now......................

LOL!!!

[Equibrit]

GOV;

Stallion Inspection, Breeding Licensing, and Approval Guidelines and Rules

Once you have become an active member you can have your stallion inspected for breeding licensing and approval with the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society if, and only if, the following criteria are met, and the stallion is taken to an official inspection and presented to the inspection committee for their judgment. The Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society is a division of the Verband der Zuchter des Oldenburger Pferdes (the German Oldenburg Verband). As such, we must follow the rules of German Breeding Law and we are now enforcing these rules. Stallions must be inspected to be licensed as a breeding stallion between two and five years of age (by calendar year). The dam and granddam of the stallion must be in the Main Mare Book or be eligible for the Main Mare Book of the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society or that of a registry acknowledged by the German Oldenburg Verband and the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society. In addition, the stallion must have a 4-generation pedigree of licensed and approved stallions as follows: The sire of the stallion and all the sires of the damline going back three generations must have been licensed and approved by the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society or by an acknowledged registry. Please check beforehand to verify that the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society accepts the stallion's registry, as not all European and North American registries qualify for acknowledgment. We will need to see a copy of the stallion's registration papers before inspection, and must see his ORIGINAL registration papers at the inspection.

The acknowledged registries are those warmblood horse breeding associations with a full selection system. This means they have an approval program that requires a performance test (important!) for the stallions that is generally in line with that of the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society which has a 70 day test, 30 day test plus performance requirements, or higher performance requirements (details are listed below). For example, most of the German breeding societies such as the Hanoverian, Westphalian, Holsteiner, etc. fall into this category along with other European breeding societies such as the Swedish, Danish, and KWPN. Exceptions to this are Thoroughbreds who are accepted for inspection as a 2 to 5 year old as long as the stallion has the correct registry papers from the Jockey club, and Arabians who are accepted only in special cases. For Arabians the owners must file a special request, and be aware that because of the lack of performance tests for the Arabian stallions, very few of these requests are accepted. If the registry of the stallion is in question at all then the owner is responsible for checking the approval standards of the registry and should contact the German or North American office for confirmation that the registry will be acknowledged.
At their inspection, young stallions must be shown in hand and at liberty in an arena to illustrate their athletic ability. They will also be required to free jump a series of three jumps. If the stallion is from jumping lines, the final oxer can be over four feet in height. The stallion will be expected to jump this height easily and confidently, and in an athletic manner, as well as display three good gaits. Stallions that are from dressage lines are not always expected to jump higher than four feet unless they show a great deal of aptitude, but the gaits must be very good, rhythmical and expansive. Please be aware that if a stallion is not considered by our breeding Director, Dr. Schulze-Schleppinghoff (or his appointed commission), to be advantageous for the Oldenburg breeding program, we will not license and approve him (remember that all breed registries have their own unique vision). A stallion that does not fit into the German Oldenburg Verband breeding program has the possibility of creating havoc within the registry. It is for this reason that we will endeavor to keep our stallion roster trim. We are highly successful in Germany, and the reputation of the Oldenburg Verband in North America is extremely important to us.

Stallions between two and five years of age who are inspected and licensed by the Oldenburg inspection committee must then complete one of the following requirements in order to be fully approved as a breeding stallion for the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society:

1. Complete the 70 day test with the appropriate qualification scores

2. Complete the 30 day test with the appropriate qualification scores and meet the following performance requirements: In Dressage the stallion must qualify for the National Young Horse Championships with an overall score of 8.0 or higher. In Eventing the stallion must as a 5 year old score 75% or higher at two or more Young Event horse competitions sanctioned by the USEA to participate in the Young Event Horse Championships, or earn 1st through 5th place at the Young Event Horse Championships. The requirements for jumpers are currently under review. Please contact the North American office for clarification or these requirements or check back with this website. As soon as those requirements have been decided upon they will be published here.

3. Meet the following performance requirements in competition: In Dressage, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd with a minimum score of 64% at 4th level test 3 or higher. In Jumping, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd at a height of 1.40 meters, or three times in the awarded placings at the height of 1.45 meters or higher. In Eventing, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd at Intermediate level, or three times in the awarded placings at Advanced level. The performance results listed here must be achieved at a show that is officially sanctioned by the national riding federation of the respective country. Schooling show results will not be accepted.

4. Thoroughbred stallions can complete their performance requirements for licensing by having raced in a flat race with a handicap weight of 80 kilograms, or raced in a steeplechase race with a weight of 85 kilograms.

Stallions that have been licensed by the GOV or the Oldenburg Horse Breeders' Society breeding committee will be activated for breeding once they have been licensed, but if they have not met the approval requirements by the end of their 6th year of age (by calendar year) they can no longer breed until they meet the performance requirements described above, and are then fully approved. Should the stallion not meet the performance requirements and not become fully approved, the foals that are bred after the stallion was licensed and before the end of the stallion's 6th year of age will be registered, but any foals bred after that will not be registered. If there is any question as to the timing and breeding status of a stallion please contact the North American or German office for verification before you breed your mare.

We will no longer inspect stallions six years of age or older unless they have already been licensed by an acknowledged breeding registry and completed one of the following requirements:

1. Complete the 70 day test with the appropriate qualification scores

2. Complete the 30 day test with the appropriate qualification scores and meet the following performance requirements: In Dressage the stallion must qualify for the National Young Horse Championships with an overall score of 8.0 or higher. In Eventing the stallion must as a 5 year old score 75% or higher at two or more Young Event horse competitions sanctioned by the USEA to participate in the Young Event Horse Championships, or earn 1st through 5th place at the Young Event Horse Championships. The requirements for jumpers are currently under review. Please contact the North American office for clarification or these requirements or check back with this website. As soon as those requirements have been decided upon they will be published here.

3. Meet the following performance requirements in competition: In Dressage, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd with a minimum score of 64% at 4th level test 3 or higher (in Germany S level or FEI). In Jumping, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd at a height of 1.40 meters, or three times in the awarded placings at the height of 1.45 meters or higher. In Eventing, placing at least five times 1st through 3rd at Intermediate level, or three times in the awarded placings at Advanced level. The performance results listed here must be achieved at a show that is officially sanctioned by the national riding federation of the respective country. Schooling show results will not be accepted. 4. Thoroughbred stallions who have already been approved for breeding by an acknowledged breeding registry, and who have raced in a flat race with a handicap weight of 80 kilograms, or in a steeplechase race with a handicap weight of 85 kilograms.

If you are planning to import a stallion from Europe and wish it to stand for German Oldenburg breeding, please check with the breeding director Dr. Schulze-Schleppinghoff or Vice-Breeding Director Katrin Burger before assuming that the stallion is qualified to breed in North America. If he is not already licensed and/or approved in Europe by the Oldenburg Verband, you should attempt to have him licensed before you purchase him. We must also stress that just because a stallion is licensed and/or approved with another registry does NOT mean that he will be licensed and/or approved for Oldenburg breeding, so please check with the office before proceeding with your plans. If the stallion has not appeared in our official stallion roster, please check with our office to see if the stallion qualifies for a one-time breeding permit. Be aware that there will be an extra fee assessed to the mare owner at inspection time for such a permit.


OLDENBURG NA;
Stallions are eligible for an inspection to obtain a Certified Breeding License from the ISR - Oldenburg Registry N.A. if
they are at least three years old
they have a regular registration paper from an approved Registry
(see Approved Registries and Bloodlines (http://www.isroldenburg.org/?pid=mares_eligibility#bloodline))
they have official documentation of pedigree of at least four generations
they pass the stallion inspection with at least 210 points
the owner agrees to fulfill the requirements of one of the 3 Stallion Tests within 18 monthsStallions may receive a Lifetime Breeding License if they fulfill these requirements as well as the Performance Test requirements ( see 3 Stallion Tests). You are most welcome to contact us (http://www.isroldenburg.org/?pid=contact) with detailed questions or to find out whether your stallion is eligible for a stallion inspection.


In order to achieve a Lifetime Breeding License the stallion must fulfill the following Performance Test Requirements which means that each stallion must pass / complete either the 100 Day Test, the Short Test or the Sport Test.
The 100-Day Test is currently the most important testing in breeding. It gathers enough facts, under standard conditions, to make an early selection of promising sires possible without waiting over years for the quality and success of their offspring to be confirmed.
The testing consists of a 100 day training period and the final performance test. The testing includes evaluation of the interior qualities of the stallion, such as character, temperament, ability and willingness to work, as well as jumping movement, jumping and performance abilities of the stallion. In the final testing, the stallions are judged for their basic gaits, their jumping ability, both free and under saddle, and for their performance while ridden cross country, according to standard rules and regulations2.The Short-Test requires the same performance as the 100-Day Test does but it does not request the presence and training of the stallion for the full time of 100 days at the testing site.
The training of the stallion for the Short Test will be performed by its regular trainer and rider. A detailed training guideline will be given by the Registry.
The stallion then must come to the testing site for a final training period of 30 days prior to the final testing.
Also during the final training period and the final testing the stallion will only be ridden by its regular rider (except for the training director's evaluation and the expert rider's testings).
The requirements to pass the Short Test and get an ISR-OLDENBURG N.A. Lifetime Breeding License are the same as for the 100-Day-Test.

3.The Lifetime Breeding License can also be achieved by obtaining a minimum of:
five placings first, second or third place at three different USEF recognised dressage shows in competitions Prix St. George or higher with minimum scores of 60% , under at least three different judges
or either five placings in jumping in the top three in Grand Prix classes or three first places in Open Classes (minimum at level 8) or Grand Prix classes at at least three different "A rated" USEF shows
or three placings in the top three at recognised Three-Day Events at intermediate / advanced level or higherHunter stallions may receive a Lifetime Breeding License on a case by case basis if they have superior show records (e.g. won "regular" or "2nd year" National Year End Awards or Championships).
Thoroughbred stallions may receive a Lifetime License based on superior race records.

[Foxtrot's]

....that's one looooooong paragraph.

[saxony]

Good Lord! I'm sure there is a lot of good information in there but how can anyone read all that????

[Equibrit]

My apologies - but it's off their website. Would it be kosher to edit it?

[DownYonder]

You could have just posted links to the web sites.

And I don't think the OP was asking about all the rules, but rather which one is a better option for a stallion prospect, esp. regarding recognition by other registries.

[coriander]

And finally there's a candidate to exceed the Zangersheide-comes-to-the-US thread in both length and likely vitriol. But will there be Brit wit?

[spacely]

Getting out the chocolate & martinis, or maybe just chocolate martinis..... :winkgrin:

[Equibrit]

And I don't think .......

mmmmmmm

Considering which registries would recognize which would be putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, if you cannot qualify your prospect for entry in to either registries' books.

[Equine Reproduction]

mmmmmmm

Considering which registries would recognize which would be putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, if you cannot qualify your prospect for entry in to either registries' books.

Actually, I think your post was brilliant. I think too much goes into which registry is "better" and not enough thought goes into whether or not the stallion qualifies, costs involved, and locations!

I think there are other considerations that need to enter into the picture, as well. First and foremost, I don't think it really has much impact one way or the other if a stallion is approved with a registry that also "honors" that approval in Europe. For most, it just isn't even going to be something that will even be an issue. If the stallion proves himself to be sufficiently worthy of note that European breeders are going to be interested in him, I think most European registries will do what is necessary - provided the stallion has met all the other criteria - to approve that stallion.

Next, getting a stallion to an approval location can be a challenge, as well! Not all inspection locations are set up or will do a stallion inspection. There has to be a sufficient set up to be able to free jump a stallion and most of the registries require more than one judge for a stallion inspection.

Costs!!! Holy smokes!!! Most stallion inspections will have an inspection fee and then add to that the annual dues if the stallion is approved. That's gonna be close to another $1,000. That's just inspection fees and stallion dues! You'll have prep work, stall board, getting the stallion to the location and if you have a handler, you'll need to enter those costs into the equation, as well. We're not even talking about the costs to get the stallion fully licensed - just the provisional licensing costs!

In our experience, the biggest issue is which registry (and I'm not referring to just ISR/Oldenburg N.A. or GOV) is going to garner the most breeders willing to breed to your stallion?

Let's be realistic. How many breedings did most warmblood stallions get this year from mares other than the stallion owners? It's a tough, tough, tough market and it could take YEARS to recoup your investment, if you ever do. The average stallion worldwide (and not just warmbloods) receives six breedings a year. That's stallions at the top of their game and the backyard stallion that gets no breedings, but I think you'll find that number is pretty darn accurate.

We've currently got a young stallion that we're discussing what to do with regards to licensing. He's four and ready to go! But, finding stallion inspection locations, costs involved, what are we going to do after the inspection in order to fulfill the rest of the requirements, will he receive sufficient breedings to warrant the additional expense of licensing, and so on and so on and so on...

Quite honestly, there are very few stallions out there that the GOV won't accept that are approved ISR/Oldenburg N.A. and vice versa. You'll find loyal breeders with each registry, but I think the separatist mentality isn't doing either registry any good. Go with the one that works the best for you and run with it. And, take it from someone that has had a stallion fully licensed and approved and one that failed the 100 Day test, there are absolutely NO guarantees and you could end up expending a huge amount of money and have nothing to show for it. Sheesh...I'm talking myself out of the whole process <lol>...Gelding is looking better and better!

Good luck!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[Olympussporthorses]

Thanks for the replies and equibrit, I appreciate you spending the time to put the requirements for each registry. I didn't want to turn this into GOV-ISR/OLD bashing each other. I am just genuinely trying to figure out which registry would better suit my needs and my horses.

I appreciate the comments.

[DownYonder]

One other thing to consider is the bloodlines of your colt. Oldenburg (GOV) requires stallions to sired by fully approved stallions and out of two generations of Main Mare Book mares who are in the MMB according to GERMAN regulations.

ISR/ONA puts mares in the MMB that do not meet Oldenburg's pedigree criteria for MMB, and it also gives lifetime breeding approval to stallions that do only the ISR short performance test and therefore would not meet the criteria for lifetime approval with Oldenburg.

If your colt doesn't meet Oldenburg's pedigree requirements for licensed stallions, then obviously you would be better off taking him to ISR.

[Oakstable]

Lots of us mare owners can give our opinions but Kathy talks from the perspective of someone who stands a stallion, who put another one through the testing and failed, .... and has a behind-the-scenes viewpoint from many other breeding operations.

Which registry is one consideration. Business aspects need to be considered first.

I've got a copy here of The Sporthorse Directory which is a catalog of stallions from many registeries and who stand in NA.

A number of them are mentioned rarely in the forums, if ever.

Example:

On Line

Concorde/Argentinus/Goldstern

Showing at Grand Prix with a female rider.

Located in Wisconsin.

The ad lists four registeries for his foals.

He looks to be a rather exciting jumper stallion. But how many know about him?

We've got a lot of quality stallions in NA, but the number of mares for them is small.