The Mandatory Outing at The Fork - Anyone going as a spectator?

[Shrapnel]

Anyone on here going to go as a spectator??

[SuperOtto]

I may go - does anyone know what the schedule is?

[GreyDun]

I wish I could go! If anyone's going, could they PLEASE take photos and send them to me? I'd love to get them up on the USEA site, because I'm sure it'll be a really special moment for those guys who get picked...can't wait!:D

[goodymar1188]

I would love to go but I don't know what the schedule is... if anyone knows, let me know!! :)

[shea'smom]

I couldn't find anything on the website.

[AirJockey24]

I've heard that it's closed to the public?

[roki143]

I've also heard that it is supposedly closed to the public, but I don't know how that's gonna work out.

[Hidden]

I had originally thought of going, but just can't now. I was only wanting to go to be able to see Teddy and now it is just too sad for me.

[katnetzler]

Hello All,

While the final Mandatory Outing is, unfortunately, closed to the general public, the Chronicle will be covering all the live action at The Fork. I'll be posting news updates, scores and plenty of photos in our online coverage section at www.chronofhorse.com as the competition unfolds on Friday and Saturday.

And yes, it's FREE for everyone! So go to www.chronofhorse.com and click on my name next to the image of the Olympic rings to follow along, beginning Friday, July 11.

One month 'til Hong Kong, and counting...

[Regal Grace]

Really looking forward to it : )

[denny]

Why is something which depends upon public fundraising, supporting US teams, closed to the public?

[LexInVA]

Why is something which depends upon public fundraising, supporting US teams, closed to the public?

Probably to avoid the pressure of a live crowd or public scrutiny. That would likely be their official position. Who can say for sure the actual reason?

[SparklePlenty]

Probably to avoid the pressure of a live crowd or public scrutiny. That would likely be their official position. Who can say for sure the actual reason?

Like closing it to the public wont get that.. :lol: Go Team!:cool:

[Firefox]

Why is something which depends upon public fundraising, supporting US teams, closed to the public?

Could be a great fund raiser?? humm, the guys that went to England were exposed to all humm

[magnolia73]

That is sad that it is closed to the public. It is always interesting and educational to see that kind of stuff. I doubt it would draw huge crowds ala Rolex. I guess it probably costs a good bit of labor to get that farm "ready for the public" in terms of organizing parking etc.

[Hilary]

Why would it be closed??? Half the team went to England so they could be exposed to a giant crowded atmosphere - that's just silly that they want it to be quiet. it will not be quiet in Hong Kong.

Makes it sound a bit East German...

I suppose it's more traffic for the farm and more difficult to set up for spectators, but how many people would go anyway? Not promoting it as a big event is one thing but prohibiting people from watching is just strange.

All the other sports are televising their selection trials!

[denny]

The USEF has a major public relations problem, and this kind of behavior only makes worse something which is already pretty bad.

In the Jack Le Goff years, he would invite in the entire Massachusetts North Shore riding community to watch the final outings, precisely because it put pressure on the riders, and because both Le Goff and Ayer were very aware of the role public involvement played in promoting our sport.

But maybe these people have something to hide?

I`m pretty sick of the insensitivity of the current upper levels of the sport toward the large base which makes possible their very existence.

[JER]

The USEF has a major public relations problem, and this kind of behavior only makes worse something which is already pretty bad.

I`m pretty sick of the insensitivity of the current upper levels of the sport toward the large base which makes possible their very existence.

So well said, denny.

A little transparency, even if it's just for PR, would go a long way right now.

It's not like the MO would generate huge crowds, probably no crowd at all, but a public invitation would be very good PR.

[fooler]

Could it be due to the land owner? Maybe he doesn't want all of the traffic.

I know the selection trials for the 1995 Pan-Am's were open to the public as a friend & I drove over Pine Top to watch. We were allowed to listen to the CMP's comments and directions to the riders also - provided we did not intrude on the process.

[roki143]

deleted

[denny]

Then they should move it to some place like the Carolina Horse Park which DOES allow the public to have access.
This is very bad public relations. If someone who is a current USEF member, whose dues help make the various teams possible, is denied access to even observe the process, just how much does that make them feel like donating further to "The Team"?

That outfit needs some leaders who understand how people think.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

I would bet my nickel that it's more a matter of not wanting to have to pull horses in from a pasture to provide parking, and then having to run a shuttle or face unhappy feedback from people having to walk down that long hot driveway. And sure, probably not too many of us would go, but we could make a traffic jam and raise a lot of dust or tear up a lot of sod if just a couple of us drove too fast if it's dry or parked the wrong place after a rain.

Not saying somebody couldn't take on the spectator management part of the day, but I'm not volunteering.... If a landowner or organization wants to volunteer to host the next mandatory outing, and arrange for spectators, I'm sure USEF would be happy to hear proposals...

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

denny - we were simulposting. Umm, does the CHP want the expense of hosting such an outing? Are you volunteering to come down for a couple weeks and co-ordinate set-up and clean up?

Sure, I'd love to see it, and I'd even volunteer there, but it's not like it doesn't take a lot of work to get portables in place and tense short list people happy...

[Darden]

I ride jumpers in NC and I would like to come watch this outing. This would be awesome.

[katnetzler]

Although previous training sessions and mandatory outings have been open to the public, the USEF has stated that this year's trials are only "closed" due to infrastructure issues - volunteers, parking services, shuttles, restrooms, etc. The Federation has expressed its eagerness to hold open trials, and The Fork's proprietor, Jim Cogdell, has always been generous in opening his property to the public. But as the facility is a private, working farm, making it spectator-ready is a massive task. This is only a matter of circumstances, not a new mandate.

[Hidden]

Still stinks.. if I'm supporting this, I want access when it is in my backyard. Not planning on going now, but I was earlier this year and would have been denied. Not right, and not friendly. I don't feel very supportive now.. having been put in my place as not worth providing the services to support my just watching. I know the farm is private, but the policy is poor.

[colliemom]

I think then that should be part of the criteria for hosting a mandatory outing for team selection. Public Access must be provided. The Fork is happy to provide that kind of access when they are hosting horse trials.... why not for this?

I agree, this sends the wrong message.

[pegasusmom]

Sends absolutely the wrong message. Not impressed and will express such to those in USEF that I have regular contact with. And yes, I would have gone. I'll donate to my own team, thank you.

[magnolia73]

I wonder what would happen if you just showed up to watch? I know you can go school there/train and take lessons. And honestly- from attending the horse trials, they don't get huge crowds and those are really promoted. Tell people they can come but not to expect any services.

[RunForIt]

Hello All,

While the final Mandatory Outing is, unfortunately, closed to the general public, the Chronicle will be covering all the live action at The Fork. I'll be posting news updates, scores and plenty of photos in our online coverage section at www.chronofhorse.com (http://www.chronofhorse.com) as the competition unfolds on Friday and Saturday.

And yes, it's FREE for everyone! So go to www.chronofhorse.com (http://www.chronofhorse.com) and click on my name next to the image of the Olympic rings to follow along, beginning Friday, July 11.

One month 'til Hong Kong, and counting...

odd that its closed to the public - the 2000 games mandatory outing at FoxHall wasn't publicized but an AMAZING number of people came to watch, admire, learn, and see our Olympian hopefuls strut their wonderful stuff. In some ways, it was far better than the Olympics (except that David actually won GOLD) in that ALL the horses got to compete, you had the extra astonishing benefit of watching folks like Jane Savoie and Jimmy Wofford coach their progeny...and I got to go on two the official course walks with the riders and Mark Phillips AND meet and walk around the XC course with Ann Getchell! :D

I'd say GO - crash the party!

[Shrapnel]

I'd say GO - crash the party!


HAHA - I love it! :lol:

[rp4241]

Hey Everyone-

I agree that it would definitely be better for the horses and the riders if there was a big crowd to create some of the "atmosphere" they are going to have to deal with in August, but the outing is closed not to keep secrets but simply because this is a small operation and they don't have the resources to provide the infrastructure to deal with a big crowd (like porta potties, shuttles, lots of volunteers to crowd control, etc.) I'm not saying its right, just telling you what they are saying.

Bonnie and Merloch left today and I am SO excited/nervous for them... everybody has their first lessons tomorrow and then Thursday. Then they do Dressage and x-c on Friday and SJ on Saturday. Everyone is being told that the 8 who will train in England will be announced either late on Sunday or sometime earlyish on monday.

Please don't hold this against the riders themselves. I promise you, they would LOVE to have a crowd out there cheering them on. As are most things in this process, it is out of their hands.

I'm getting there Thursday night and will do my best to post about the weekend as it moves along...

Wish us luck!

~rp

[pwynnnorman]

Everyone is being told that the 8 who will train in England will be announced either late on Sunday or sometime earlyish on monday.


That's fast! Do you think they'll go for time or no? I'm a little confused by what might be sought, y'know? I mean, few went for time (on our team) at Barbury, but(??) that was after their scores may(???) have indicated no shot in the money (or something like that--someone else posted that somewhere, didn't they?).

So what about matters of time at The Fork? Won't most of the pairs have seen that course already? So what do you suppose (for the sake of discussion--just curious!) selectors might be looking at? Also, what about the UK dressage scores that we did/didn't get? How do you think that'll factor in? Or do you think that minds are basically made up already, awaiting only the final vet check (like, is the event really just to give 'em an outing and stress 'em enough for the vets to work on)???

[retreadeventer]

I think, Wynn, that the selectors are looking for a horse that is Sound, likely to be Sound, and has a history of shipping sound and staying sound from barndoor threshold to the last jog -- and a horse that has shown it can be a steady and reliable team horse by laying down a decent enough dressage test, going clear xc and close to the time, and as clear and clean in stadium as possible. And did I mention sound? :)

I think it is more what they don't like -- at this point. A horse being a rogue in dressage; a horse being unconcerned in stadium; a horse being nappy in XC.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

I bet it's like retread said - and also, I would bet my nickel that different pairs might need to demonstrate different things. A pair which is always on time and clean XC, but maybe drops rails SJ, I wouldn't be surprised if they were told to take it easy XC - and not risk soundness - but that the more rails they left up, the more likely they would go to Hong Kong. A pair which show jumps well but has the odd runout at the water, or the occasional rank day in dressage, well, if I were queen of the universe and team selection, I would be likely to tell that pair, "SHine in your bogey phase and you're in!"

Please note, I am not queen of the universe, but it's interesting to imagine... ;)

[RunForIt]

Although previous training sessions and mandatory outings have been open to the public, the USEF has stated that this year's trials are only "closed" due to infrastructure issues - volunteers, parking services, shuttles, restrooms, etc. The Federation has expressed its eagerness to hold open trials, and The Fork's proprietor, Jim Cogdell, has always been generous in opening his property to the public. But as the facility is a private, working farm, making it spectator-ready is a massive task. This is only a matter of circumstances, not a new mandate.

Even as a volunteer (I scribed for the dressage tests) I walked into Foxhall along with countless others in 2000 - believe me, Foxhall was not EVER "open to the public". The public came to the mandatory outing with "inconveniences" in mind - super experience. If TPTB had not objected, the public would've been welcome at The Fork - would be hard pressed to believe otherwise. Very happy now it didn't happen at a venue in Georgia.

[denny]

I just see this latest as another example of how out of touch the USEF leadership is with its core constituency, namely its dues paying members who they are trying to turn into fans.

Back "in the day", Neal Ayer and Jack Le Goff "got it".

Namely, be super nice to everybody, don`t demean anybody, don`t belittle anybody, and try to treat all eventers as part of a big family.

I don`t see that as an integral part of "Team" policy anymore.

Why has this fundamental change happened?

And can you imagine a professional sports franchise treating its fans this way?

[LexInVA]

I just see this latest as another example of how out of touch the USEF leadership is with its core constituency, namely its dues paying members who they are trying to turn into fans.

Back "in the day", Neal Ayer and Jack Le Goff "got it".

Namely, be super nice to everybody, don`t demean anybody, don`t belittle anybody, and try to treat all eventers as part of a big family.

I don`t see that as an integral part of "Team" policy anymore.

Why has this fundamental change happened?


It went from sport to business. Now you have an organization run by corporate types who foster corporate mindsets and corporate values.

[magnolia73]

Yeah- You know what- they had the Kayaking trials in Charlotte and they were working their tails off to get spectators. To go watch kayaking. And pay for it. And they got some odd 15,000 people out there. To watch Olympians kayak. They had concerts and a giant party, shuttle buses, press out there.

Honestly- just writing that irritates me. If they aren't going to get off their butts and promote the sport- why support it? It's either admitting that people don't care about the sport (not true) or that they don't wish to make the effort. How much can a bunch of port o'lets and a shuttle bus cost? Probably less than shipping one horse to Hong Kong.

[LexInVA]

Yeah- You know what- they had the Kayaking trials in Charlotte and they were working their tails off to get spectators. To go watch kayaking. And pay for it. And they got some odd 15,000 people out there. To watch Olympians kayak. They had concerts and a giant party, shuttle buses, press out there.

Honestly- just writing that irritates me. If they aren't going to get off their butts and promote the sport- why support it? It's either admitting that people don't care about the sport (not true) or that they don't wish to make the effort. How much can a bunch of port o'lets and a shuttle bus cost? Probably less than shipping one horse to Hong Kong.

They only care about promoting the sport as long as it's THEIR vision of it.

[retreadeventer]

I have never been to the Fork and have picked up that it is a beautiful facility, and that the owner is a great guy to offer it so much to the sport for not only horse trials but the selection trials. You know yourself Denny how much work putting on horse trials can be.

I wonder if the team just didn't even consider that the public might want to be present, or did consider it but in eagerness to take Jim up on the offer thought weighing the two choices out, felt it was more important to get the Team over a sharp new course than make sure a couple of pony clubbers and fat old ladies could schlepp their digital cameras about the grounds. I mean, I see your point, Denny, as I too am dismayed about the access. That being the case if I were in charge of the team, just about anyone who could print out a fake press credential on their computer I'd give access to make certain as many photos and stories could be spread around as possible, heck I would even pay someone to stream video or something just to make sure it was not being a secret process. Or rent the portapotties and hire someone to string the rope and park the cars or something or whatever it took to make sure anyone who wanted to be there could be.

The Canadians are prepping at Rocking Horse in Florida to be closer to the heat and conditions of Hong Kong and are there now from what I have heard. Just as an aside.

Did any of the show jumpers or dressage horses have secret selection trials someplace?

[denny]

I just had a long conversation with John Strassburger. He doesn`t remember any selection trials in the past 30 years in any FEI discipline from which the public was banned.

[flyingchange]

Yeah, what drew me into this sport was the family feel of it. And now that I am a bit older I understand that that atmosphere wasn't just a coincidence - people like Mr. Ayer and Mr. Le Goff promoted an inclusive atmosphere to the sport.

In the past 8 years, the timespan that I have been eventing as an adult, I have really noticed that what initially drew me in to the sport seems to be difficult to find these days. I wouldn't/couldn't leave the sport - it is too embedded into what and who I am now. But I am sad by the changes that have happened in this sport. And this private team outing is a prime example of it. It didn't surprise me one bit that it is closed to the "public."

[RunForIt]

Are the scribes and jump judges being paid or were they gathered from the eventing "public"?

[asterix]

I know a bunch of us went up to Gladstone the year they jumped under lights (that was for Athens, right?) -- we watched xc, went and had dinner, and came back for SJ.
It was exciting, and it was wonderful to see the elite in such an intimate environment. I am sure we were not in the way and while there were spectators, it was nothing like the number of people that come to any old random HT here in Area II.
This is really unfortunate.

[SuperOtto]

Hey Everyone-

but the outing is closed not to keep secrets but simply because this is a small operation and they don't have the resources to provide the infrastructure to deal with a big crowd (like porta potties, shuttles, lots of volunteers to crowd control, etc.) I'm not saying its right, just telling you what they are saying.

~rp

I don't know, the Fork has a pretty big Horse Trial in April, with lots of people (200?) competing. Considering there is just a handful of people competing this weekend, I'm sure they could handle a good amount of spectators - which may be comparable to what their big horse trial has, when you consider competitors, spectators, volunteers, employees, vendors, etc at the April event. I don't know, how many people turn out to watch this sort of thing? "Don't have the resources" honestly sounds pretty lame to me, given what they put on every year.

And honestly, eventing has been having a rough time lately - what a missed opportunity to say "come on, let's all enjoy this sport together".

[goodymar1188]

Yeah it's a long-ish walk from parking to the rings or the XC course at the Fork but I would be willing to walk!! Yeesh!!

I consider this bad planning, or lsimply lazy people, nothing more then that!!

[tuppysmom]

My family watched quite a bit of the selection trials for swimming, track & field, gymnastics etc on TV the past couple of weeks. They had lots of spectators at all venues.

We're missing the boat!?

[Shrapnel]

I consider this bad planning, or simply lazy people, nothing more then that!!

I believe goodymar hit the nail on the head folks! :yes:

[pegasusmom]

Are the scribes and jump judges being paid or were they gathered from the eventing "public"?

Scribes and "spotters" are volunteers.

[RunForIt]

Scribes and "spotters" are volunteers.

I thought as much, Dana - asked the question to point out the eventing "public" is as always, welcome to serve as a convenience, but certainly not welcome.

I'm sure no one "meant to be rude", but instead went about life as usual, which is to conveniently not even be aware that US upper level eventing is a PART of the bigger US eventing world that supports and makes it possible for them to go play and increase the size of their egos.

[colliemom]

I thought as much, Dana - asked the question to point out the eventing "public" is as always, welcome to serve as a convenience, but certainly not welcome.

I'm sure no one "meant to be rude", but instead went about life as usual, which is to conveniently not even be aware that US upper level eventing is a PART of the bigger US eventing world that supports and makes it possible for them to go play and increase the size of their egos.


So, perhaps it is time that the base of the sport not be so "free" with our support at these things? It's so easy for TPTB to count on volunteers to enable their plans..... if that pool started to dry up a bit, maybe then they would listen?

I doubt it, though. They would just blame us -- again -- for all the problems. :no:

[LexInVA]

So, perhaps it is time that the base of the sport not be so "free" with our support at these things? It's so easy for TPTB to count on volunteers to enable their plans..... if that pool started to dry up a bit, maybe then they would listen?

I doubt it, though. They would just blame us -- again -- for all the problems. :no:

The problem with TPTB is that they EXPECT if not insist that the lower levels support them solely because they believe they are right even when they are wrong. Eventing has the luxury of being a sport that has a strong communal appeal unlike the others so I don't think the number of volunteers will change drastically but there will be a widening gap between the numbers who buy into the propaganda and those who live in reality.

[Jazzy Lady]

Just crash the party... show up. It's not like they will have security... and if they do... that would be brutal.

Or go watch the Canadians at Rocking horse! David is great for allowing spectators. When I was in Florida I would just show up at his farm to watch my friends' lessons and he was extremely friendly and nice about it.

[gooddirt]

Could it be due to the land owner? Maybe he doesn't want all of the traffic.

I know the selection trials for the 1995 Pan-Am's were open to the public as a friend & I drove over Pine Top to watch. We were allowed to listen to the CMP's comments and directions to the riders also - provided we did not intrude on the process.


We had lots and lots of spectators and raised a good sum of money for USET. It was a spectator-friendly one day event with nothing but elite riders and horses. Kind of like an "Eventing Grand Prix."

[magnolia73]

It's not like they will have security

I want to say that it is gated..... so perhaps confirm before making the drive.

[Flower's Girl]

I know a bunch of us went up to Gladstone the year they jumped under lights (that was for Athens, right?) -- we watched xc, went and had dinner, and came back for SJ.
It was exciting, and it was wonderful to see the elite in such an intimate environment. I am sure we were not in the way and while there were spectators, it was nothing like the number of people that come to any old random HT here in Area II.
This is really unfortunate.

I was a groom at the final outing for Greece, and yes this was the one where they jumped under lights (made for a VERY long day!!) - I can't imagine how anyone would think having a private final outing would be a good idea! At the Athen final outing, I remember my horse being very cranky and tired and ready for it to all be over with - going out for a stadium round at 9pm was NOT his idea of a good time! It was the cheering of the crowd that pepped him back up and got him excited to perform even after having such a long day! The people who waited around to cheer the team on reminded all of us what we were there for and who we were representing! To me, Eventing is not about being excluded - it is about being part of a community/family but holding closed outings doesn't seem to support that...

[fooler]

We had lots and lots of spectators and raised a good sum of money for USET. It was a spectator-friendly one day event with nothing but elite riders and horses. Kind of like an "Eventing Grand Prix."

And we really enjoyed the day, the competition and hosts!

[pegasusmom]

Jean - according to Cora Cushney's website Sara Ike stated they didn't want to inconvenience the owner. . .

Pesky spectators. . . stay home and just send a check.

[Shrapnel]

From Eventingetc.com :


The USEF Eventing Short List/Nominated Entry is as follows:


Stephen Bradley / 46 / Leesburg, VA / Brandenburg's Joshua / G / 13 / Thoroughbred / Southern Edition Farm, LLC


Bruce Davidson, Jr. / 32 / Ocala, FL / BallyNoe Castle RM / G / 8 / Irish Thoroughbred / Carl and Cassandra Segal


Phillip Dutton / 44 / West Grove, PA / Connaught / G / 15 / Irish Sport Horse / Bruce Duchossois


Phillip Dutton / 44 / West Grove, PA / Woodburn / G / 13 / Thoroughbred / Acorn Hill Farm


Will Faudree / 26 / Southern Pines, NC / Antigua / G / 19 / Australian Thoroughbred / Will Faudree


Becky Holder / 39 / Mendota Heights, MN / Courageous Comet / G/ 12 / Thoroughbred / Thomas Holder, Jr.


Gina Miles / 34 / Creston, CA / McKinlaigh / G / 14 / Irish Sport Horse / Laura Coats, Gina Miles, and Thomas Schulz (Competed at Barbury Castle)


Clark Montgomery / 27 / Bryan, TX / Up Spirit / G / 9 / Irish Thoroughbred / Bill Becker, Holly Becker, and Clark Montgomery (Competed at Barbury Castle)


Bonnie Mosser / 45 / Unionville, PA / Merloch / G/ 11 / Thorougbred Cross / Margaret Egan and Bonnie Mosser


Karen O'Connor / 50 / The Plains, VA / Mandiba / G / 9 / Thoroughbred / Joan Goswell (Competed at Barbury Castle)


Kim Severson / 34 / Keene, VA / Tipperary Liadhnan / G / 11 / Irish Thoroughbred / Kim Severson


Amy Tryon / 38 / Duvall, WA / Leyland / G / 8 / Thoroughbred / Elizabeth Nicholson (Competed at Barbury Castle)


Amy Tryon / 38 / Duvall, WA / Poggio II / G / 16 / Thoroughbred / Mark Hart, Amy Tryon, and Greg Tryon (Competed at Barbury Castle)


Heidi White / 42 / Aiken, SC / Northern Spy / G / 15 / English Thoroughbred / Heidi White


Jennifer Wooten / 30 / Ramona, CA / The Good Witch / M / 12 / Irish Sport Horse /Daisy Tognazzini

(15 horses for 13 riders have been named to the Short List. Phillip Dutton and Amy Tryon each have two named horses. All, who did not compete at Barbury Castle, Marlborough, Wiltshire, England, will compete at the Mandatory Outing at The Fork, in North Carolina on Friday, July 11th and Saturday July 12th.)


ENDS


Please contact Sara Ike at sara.ike@usef.org with any questions.

2008 Olympic Games
In regards to the Mandatory Outings for the 2008 Olympic Games Eventing team:

The Mandatory Outing at the Fork Stables (July 11-12) is by invitation only and closed to the public. The Barbury Castle Horse Trials (July 4-6) will be open to the public.

Editor's Note: In the opinion of your Editor it is a serious mistake to close the Mandatory Outing at the Fork to the Public. Eventing is going through a difficult patch and to close the Mandatory Outing makes it look as if the sport has something to hide.

The excuse given by Sara Ike is that it would cause too much trouble for the owner of the Fork, Jim Cogdell, to have the public on the grounds.

In you Editor's opinion, if that is the case, the Mandatory Outing should have been scheduled for another location.

Cora Cushny, Editor


So, with the way they have this worded -- we are all suppose to go to England to watch 4 of our riders compete!?!?!? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!

[fooler]

Dana & Shrapnel - thanks for the clarification


Glenn,
My very belated apologies for being such an inconvenience for you and your team back in 1995. . . . ;)
But it was a fun day!

Such a shame this outing is closed.

[Flower's Girl]

I have done a bit of asking around and the outing isn't public but the riders have been encouraged to ask their friends and supporters to come and cheer them on - I guess that's the invitation only part. I board with one of the riders and am not going myself, but have some friends who are. I have requested photos for GreyDun from one friend who takes really nice photos, and the other is planning to video - she posts here and I'm sure she'll share!!

Very poor form to close this to the public - and worse to invite only certain people, imo! But no one listens to me! :no:

[SuperOtto]

So all we need to do is to get one of the riders to come post on this BB that they would like their supporters to come cheer them on :D

[Flower's Girl]

Or show up for the outing and say 'So and so asked me to come cheer him/her on' :lol:

[LexInVA]

Or show up for the outing and say 'So and so asked me to come cheer him/her on' :lol:

Just tell them you are CMPs biggest fan. Then you're guaranteed to get in. :lol:

[Lose That]

Yeah- You know what- they had the Kayaking trials in Charlotte and they were working their tails off to get spectators. To go watch kayaking. And pay for it. And they got some odd 15,000 people out there. To watch Olympians kayak. They had concerts and a giant party, shuttle buses, press out there.

Honestly- just writing that irritates me. If they aren't going to get off their butts and promote the sport- why support it? It's either admitting that people don't care about the sport (not true) or that they don't wish to make the effort. How much can a bunch of port o'lets and a shuttle bus cost? Probably less than shipping one horse to Hong Kong.

Um yeah. The whole Whitewater Center thing was CRAZY. And trust me... it's not near as exciting as watching eventers. Make people pay to park, that's what they do at the center and I'm pretty sure they made a KILLING that weekend. I work there and there were so many cars I had to walk like a mile from where I parked... in the middle of the woods, and get a friend to DRIVE me to my car at the end of the night because it was so far away I was afraid I would get ax murdered. I'm pretty sure it would be good for the sport if we got that much publicity.

On the other hand... it was not so much fun for those of us that worked there, ;):lol: Nah just kidding, it was hard work but it really made it more fun and exciting.

[snoopy]

I just had a long conversation with John Strassburger. He doesn`t remember any selection trials in the past 30 years in any FEI discipline from which the public was banned.


I was going to write this same thing!!! Holding a closed outing on a private farm funded by the public who they are representing in HK....hmmm. Perhaps I will think again before I sign any cheques to the USEF.
By invitation is obviously meant to convey that only those with DIRECT contributions to the named riders are welcome. Looks like my money is not green enough. Another example of closing ranks and widening the divide. If it is true that Jim is inconvienced by the general public, then perhaps the general public might be inconvienced and not enter The Fork Horse Trials in future.

[retreadeventer]

I think I am beginning to understand the Seven Year Fight.....

[SGray]

almost makes you wish the uset had won and they could have taken their upper level toys and gone home - leaving the rest of us in peace

[asterix]

wow, "by invitation only"??? So if we are in the know enough we get to go, otherwise, stay home, rest up for the next crack of dawn Intermediate or Advanced track they need us to jump judge for???

this is starting to tick me off. a missed opportunity for sure.

[Darden]

Customers are a bother. Great. Lovely.

[Debbie]

What a wasted opportunity for fundraising... and worse than that, whiffed so badly as to pi$$ off potential funders. Like Runforit, I was at the 2000 Mandatory Outing at Foxhall as a volunteer and it was great to feel involved in the process-- combine a picnic dinner with the riders at the end of the day and I would have gladly paid for the privilege of sitting in the summer sun all day.

Let's all root for Canada! :winkgrin:

[denny]

What this is is cronyism at its worst. Does anyone think for one minute that if some major donor to the USET Foundation happens to drive up to those locked gates, he/she won`t be let in?

But if some ardent eventing supporter, with a couple of horse loving kids does so, "Sorry, this is closed to the public."

So the definition of "public" is whatever "those people" choose it to be.

A public relations fiasco of this proportion can only come from an organization with no understanding of its constituency.

This is going to hurt them, and they have brought it upon themselves.

[Pandarus33]

I was controller at the last *** back in April. From the problems we had with spectators interfering on XC and trying very hard to keep them out of the path even with jump judges and ropes, I'm not surprised that they didn't invite the public.

I was nice enough to allow a trainer to stand in the bed of my truck so he would watch his young rider go Prelim with her new horse. Two minutes later, he's standing on the top of the dually wheel well (the painted part, not the top rail of the bed) with his muddy hiking boots! I kicked him off and he looked incredibly offended that I asked him to get out. I'll never allow another person to stand in my truck even though it's the first time I've had this happen. The buffing to get the scratches out cost me $400 and I have no extra cash due to the hay drought.

It's sad that a few bad apples will spoil the bunch but I can understand why it's not public.

[pegasusmom]

They don't have any more problems than the rest of us. I agree with Denny, this should be open to the public, it sends the wrong message and they should have found a forum to which allowed public viewing. I am not surprised about the spectators either, but for a vastly different reason.

[magnolia73]

Well, if the public is such a pain in the ass, they should spend their resources where they are welcomed. Frankly- it sounds like Lose That over at the Whitewater Center was greatly inconvenienced by the public.

Way to welcome people to the sport- perhaps the problem was that the roping should have been set up better or the people on the course monitoring it should have been a bit sharper with the eyes. But yes, just bitch about people- new to the sport- not realizing the hazards. How dare they be excited and not focused. Stupid idiots. The problem (except the rude truck guy) was not with the spectators, but with the event. Learn and do better next time. Every year Bob Johnson improves his Grand Prix in Charlotte. Instead of complaining about people, he caters to people.

And we wonder why people find English Horse Sports snobbish, haughty and unappealing. Frankly, I hope they replace eventing in the Olympics with rodeo or reining if that is the attitude.

I realize the Fork's owner has a gorgeous piece of land and a great facility. Please understand that this is not a criticism of him. He has a right to control access to his farm. But IMO, perhaps the powers that be should have thought more before they chose an exclusive venue, especially when there are quite a few to choose from that might benefit from the traffic created by spectators to such an event.

[asterix]

well, I can't (understand why it is private). Rolex allows spectators -- crowd control there is no joke, and they still manage to make it work.
This is a sport where we embrace spectators on course at every single event. Why should this be different?

I don't see that this would have been some huge burden, and the Olympic Selection Trials (which is essentially what this is) belong to the whole sport, not just an invited few.

[pwynnnorman]

Just crash the party... show up. It's not like they will have security... and if they do... that would be brutal.

Or go watch the Canadians at Rocking horse! David is great for allowing spectators. When I was in Florida I would just show up at his farm to watch my friends' lessons and he was extremely friendly and nice about it.

Rocking Horse? I thought they were going to FHP?

[Jazzy Lady]

oh I dunno... someone wrote on here earlier it was rocking horse... I was just going with that.

[Jazzy Lady]

Did anyone read K'OC's road to the Olympics in the COTH and the reason WHY she chose to compete at Banbury? She said the rest who stay here will be competing in a private event with absolutely no atmosphere... whereas at a CIC*** with over 150 competitors there will be LOTS of atmosphere... and talented horses and riders, many of which doing their final event before the Olympics.

[Raji]

I would like to clarify that I have no relationship to The Fork, it's owner Jim Cogdell or the management. However I have volunteered at several of The Fork Horse Trials. I do not feel the word "inconvenient"was a good choice to use with regard to Mr. Cogdell. He has graciously hosted two Trials a year for several years and does not receive full monetary compensation for his efforts, if any! Perhaps the USEF should have considered a public venue as everyone has stated but maybe due to the economy and upcoming expenses for the team, they choose a private venue that was not seeking compensation as a public venue would require.
The Fork is a private working farm with a narrow entrance which is gated but not under security and all traffic must use the circular turn at the barn. During the two Horse Trials he hosts each year, he opens two fields for parking and stabling. The boy scouts volunteer to handle parking and the shuttle buses for riders and spectators unless you wish to walk for miles. Volunteers are directed to the equipment area for parking and shuttled to their various postions. During an event all work ceases on the farm and private horses are turned out to accomodate others.
It does take almost 6 months for the property to recover after each Horse Trial and it is expensive to reseed the used fields and repair footing in addition to a massive clean-up. Jim Cogdell is not compensated in any way for these expenses. The rest of the year the farm becomes a working farm with seasonal crops and a well provided for wildlife refuge. The Fork has always been very gracious in allowing the local pony clubs, group riders, other small equestrian events to use his facilities at no cost most of the year.
I can understand why Mr. Cogdell would not wish to go to the expense and work that opening the Mandatory Outing to the general public would entail.We need to appreciate our landowners that support equestrian events.

[Darden]

The organizers should have chosen a public venue. I would have gladly - gladly - paid to spectate.

[rp4241]

I just want to make sure that everyone understands that the *riders* did not want this to be a closed event. In fact, they argued about it and the response was, "well ok you can invite your friends." It was not... "Ok, you can invite people but only those who have given you x number of $'s in the past year"...

So remember, behind this crazy organization are still a group of riders who have been working their asses off for this opportunity, most of them are not in a position to put up too much of a fight about these things even though I feel certain that every single one of them would agree with you that this should be open.

Cheer for them in spirit, I know they want you there.

[RunForIt]

I just want to make sure that everyone understands that the *riders* did not want this to be a closed event. In fact, they argued about it and the response was, "well ok you can invite your friends." It was not... "Ok, you can invite people but only those who have given you x number of $'s in the past year"...

So remember, behind this crazy organization are still a group of riders who have been working their asses off for this opportunity, most of them are not in a position to put up too much of a fight about these things even though I feel certain that every single one of them would agree with you that this should be open.

Cheer for them in spirit, I know they want you there.

If they cared and wanted us there, all they would have to do is say the words:" NO WAY" - POOF!...the gates would open. TPTB want the best; the riders could've insisted on acting the part - being an Olympian is far more than being an athlete and winning medals.

[arnika]

No one is saying or implying anything derogatory towards Mr. Cogdell.

USEF was idiotic to choose his farm as their venue. A selection event that the public is asked to support with funding and volunteers that is closed to that same public unless you are specially invited is what is demeaning.
As is the following comment: (note the bold emphasis is mine)

I wonder if the team just didn't even consider that the public might want to be present, or did consider it but in eagerness to take Jim up on the offer thought weighing the two choices out, felt it was more important to get the Team over a sharp new course than make sure a couple of pony clubbers and fat old ladies could schlepp their digital cameras about the grounds.

As the parent of a PCer and a to-be PCer, not to mention being an old (not fat) lady who would have gone, I will definitely keep my money for our own use. I see no need to give it to people who refuse to let me even see the team I have supported. If the Team doesn't want me, then I won't give them my money. Period.

[hey101]

I just want to make sure that everyone understands that the *riders* did not want this to be a closed event. In fact, they argued about it and the response was, "well ok you can invite your friends."

maybe the invited riders should join Facebook, and then we can all become their "friends" and show up at the outing! :lol: (sorry I'm feeling a little snarky right now).

While I certainly understand the feelings of the landowner, and it was very gracious of him to host the outing, there should have been more consideration to the venue if public access was going to be an issue. Eventing needs all the good PR it can get right now and anyone with half a brain can see that this is NOT a good move to pull. It makes it seem secretive and as if there is something to hide with the team selection (sure DC isn't pulling BIDI out of the woodwork for a little go-round??... sorry, that snarky thing again. :cool:)

[fooler]

I would like to clarify that I have no relationship to The Fork, it's owner Jim Cogdell or the management. However I have volunteered at several of The Fork Horse Trials. I do not feel the word "inconvenient"was a good choice to use with regard to Mr. Cogdell. He has graciously hosted two Trials a year for several years and does not receive full monetary compensation for his efforts, if any! Perhaps the USEF should have considered a public venue as everyone has stated but maybe due to the economy and upcoming expenses for the team, they choose a private venue that was not seeking compensation as a public venue would require.
The Fork is a private working farm with a narrow entrance which is gated but not under security and all traffic must use the circular turn at the barn. During the two Horse Trials he hosts each year, he opens two fields for parking and stabling. The boy scouts volunteer to handle parking and the shuttle buses for riders and spectators unless you wish to walk for miles. Volunteers are directed to the equipment area for parking and shuttled to their various postions. During an event all work ceases on the farm and private horses are turned out to accomodate others.
It does take almost 6 months for the property to recover after each Horse Trial and it is expensive to reseed the used fields and repair footing in addition to a massive clean-up. Jim Cogdell is not compensated in any way for these expenses. The rest of the year the farm becomes a working farm with seasonal crops and a well provided for wildlife refuge. The Fork has always been very gracious in allowing the local pony clubs, group riders, other small equestrian events to use his facilities at no cost most of the year.
I can understand why Mr. Cogdell would not wish to go to the expense and work that opening the Mandatory Outing to the general public would entail.We need to appreciate our landowners that support equestrian events.

I competed at the 2nd Fork HT and was horrified at the damge done to the property due to the compeitors and the rain. I do appreciate Mr. Cogdell opening up his property for us to compete.
My problems are: Why was his farm selected? Was he the only one to offer OR was he the only one asked? Was it discussed that historically the outings were open to the public and would he agree to that? I don't blame him as much as TPTB. They know the history and that we, the vast unwashed supporters of the team, would want to participate and spectate.

[Hidden]

I'm with you all.. I have no issues with the Fork or the owner. If economics drove the decision to avoid a public course or to avoid spectators, well I think we need to provide an economic wakeup call. If I'm not good enough to spectate, then clearly my money isn't good enough for them either. I'll take my $$ and spend it on something fun for me and my horse vs membership in this organization and Olympic support for the "home" team. Sorry Riders..

[PhoenixFarm]

You know, i was sick in bed a week or so back, and ended up watching on some channel or another an incredibly silly gymnastics movie. I think it was called "Stick It" or something like that. It seemed like some sort of Bring It On knock off.

In the climax of this movie, the gymnasts at some big championship (to pick the team for Worlds) decide to protest the judging--the rewarding of mechanical precision (and harsh deductions for minor infractions) over innovation and athleticism. They decide to select the winners of each class among themselves by having all but the chosen winner go in and touch the piece of equipment, thus forfeiting. The chosen winner then goes in and performs their routine the way they want to (cue silly rap music, dorky dance moves, and a much of admittedly impressive leaping and flipping through the air).

Now this is a terrible movie. However, what I find even more pathetic than the script and the "acting" is than there isn't a single team-focused rider in our sport who would ever have the backbone to put up even one-tenth of that amount of protest. If they did, they would be immediately blackballed, their dreams permanently crushed, their future destroyed. And, that destruction would be possible because even if you found one or two willing to take a stand, there's 10 more waiting in the wings willing to be "team players".

I feel for the riders, I really do. And I do support whoever goes to Hong Kong. But they have allowed the system to make them powerless. Until they have the collective backbone to say "enough" they will continue to be crushed under the thumb of team bureacracy. The team doesn't care about the rest of us. The riders are the only ones who can make them care. Being that brave would be hard, incredibly hard. Terrifying even. I can't say if I'd have the cajones for it or not. But they are the ONLY ones with power to make a difference.

Maybe I should send them all copies of this movie on DVD? On the other hand, that might be too harsh a punishment. :winkgrin:

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=PhoenixFarm;3351936]

Now this is a terrible movie. However, what I find even more pathetic than the script and the "acting" is than there isn't a single team-focused rider in our sport who would ever have the backbone to put up even one-tenth of that amount of protest. If they did, they would be immediately blackballed, their dreams permanently crushed, their future destroyed. And, that destruction would be possible because even if you found one or two willing to take a stand, there's 10 more waiting in the wings willing to be "team players".

I feel for the riders, I really do. And I do support whoever goes to Hong Kong. But they have allowed the system to make them powerless. Until they have the collective backbone to say "enough" they will continue to be crushed under the thumb of team bureacracy. The team doesn't care about the rest of us. The riders are the only ones who can make them care. Being that brave would be hard, incredibly hard. Terrifying even. I can't say if I'd have the cajones for it or not. But they are the ONLY ones with power to make a difference. QUOTE]



I could not agree more!!!!!

[JER]

Until they have the collective backbone to say "enough" they will continue to be crushed under the thumb of team bureacracy. The team doesn't care about the rest of us. The riders are the only ones who can make them care. Being that brave would be hard, incredibly hard.

About those 'team players' and riders who stand up to TPTB...

This comes from the admittedly strange Wikipedia entry on Bruce Davidson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Davidson_%28equestrian%29) (anyone know who wrote this?):
By this time Kentucky was established as the spring championships, but with a date in late May when heat was again a problem. For years the riders asked that the date be changed, but the organisers insisted the Horse Park ws not available on the desired dates. Finally in 1987 Bruce led a riders' strike in which about half the riders refused to run their horses. The result was that the next year the event was moved up to a more temperate date in late April, but the strike was a divisive event which became a fault-line in American eventing for years. The riders who struck felt betrayed by the riders who rode. One of the prizes for a good showing at Kentucky was a grant to go to Burghley in England in September. Enough riders rode that the authorities could stick to their guns and choose the Burghley squad from from amongst them, punishing the strikers. The result, though, was an inexperienced team that rode into a bloodbath at Burghley, with horses and riders endng up in the hosital, and only one, future legend David O'Connor, completing the event.

(I don't know anything about this incident, can't comment as to its veracity, just thought it was interesting.)

[Pandarus33]

the Fork or their personnel what the reason was for not including the public? Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I can't help but think there was some alternative reason. Jim Cogdell invites the entire town of Norwood out for the April HTs.

Did the insurance company freak out about it and want to charge an arm and a leg? Insurance on our sport will definitely increase thanks to current events. The insurance of my little place doubled in the last six weeks for no reason at all. Jim and Bernadette are still building their new home. Could the insurance company not want to risk liability by having the general public too close to a construction site?

Were the lots used for parking not available? I believe they are owned by a local farmer. It's possible that they are planted and not available for parking. Have the stabling and trailer parking areas even recovered from the mess of April? Only three months since it happened and I can't imagine how much grading and re-seeding needed to be done. If they haven't enough parking, they really can't open it to the public.

Surely someone can provide an answer that comes straight from the facility itself?

[PhoenixFarm]

Mr. PF says that characterization of the goings on in '87 is more than a little inaccurate.

While there was some important conversations happening as a result of the weather issues (and it wasn't just about KY, it was also about Chesterland running in the late summer/early fall), he doesn't recall anything as dramatic as a strike. He also remembers our own denny being more involved than Bruce. Finally, the issue more had to do with a general KY fear of something being too close to the KY Derby than an issue with the horse park.

He calls it a watershed moment rather than a schism--a point where American eventing realized it couldn't be a twin to it's English cousins, date wise (our weather and Englands is not at all the same), and that the whole calendar needed to be reorganized. It was done systemically, not just because of KY.

[retreadeventer]

Heather, this really isn't a team sport.
It's a rider and his or her horse.
There's usually an owner involved, and owners in this sport willing to put this kind of money into competing at the Olympic level are quite rare, and incredibly self motivated.

We have no real system to encourage pairs to get to the Olympic level and no real funding. A few pittances here and there to developing riders and a few trips to England for some but nothing like the Europeans.

It is a collection of individuals who compete against one another every week, who take a few weeks off every four years and ride with each other against other countries. It's usually a group chosen at the last possible time for some reason we are always behind the other countries in choosing our team members. They're not going to fight with each other. They're not going to lose what few owners they have. They're not going to do anything to cut off the cash cow that the Olympic team can be to their futures by doing something as radical and bridge burning as a strike.

I have been criticized as a dreamer before but truly I do not believe this is any way a workable idea nor realistic. The realistic thing to do is figure a way to fund our development process in a more organized manner and send riders and horses to Europe regularly to gain international experience, and not expect them to do it on their own. Our top 30 advanced pairs should be crossing the pond on a regular basis. That is not happening. Were that a reality, I think our selection process would be infinitely easier on everyone.

[Raji]

Did anyone who wished to spectate call Jim Cogdell or The Fork? You probably would have been welcomed.

[tuppysmom]

Been there. It is a very different experience than any other team enviroment that I have been involved in.

Don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing, but it is a different thing.

[pwynnnorman]

I have been criticized as a dreamer before but truly I do not believe this is any way a workable idea nor realistic. The realistic thing to do is figure a way to fund our development process in a more organized manner and send riders and horses to Europe regularly to gain international experience, and not expect them to do it on their own. Our top 30 advanced pairs should be crossing the pond on a regular basis. That is not happening. Were that a reality, I think our selection process would be infinitely easier on everyone.

Wasn't that an integral part of the debate between USET and AHSA that produced USEF et al? Perhaps the real question is, why didn't it happen?

[Flower's Girl]

"The riders are the only ones who can make them care. Being that brave would be hard, incredibly hard. Terrifying even. I can't say if I'd have the cajones for it or not. But they are the ONLY ones with power to make a difference."

I agree with this, and there is no lack of cojones in this group of riders, believe me! :lol:

I also understand the feelings of the landowner, and appreciate all facilities that open their doors to eventers, but I also think that when (or if) he mentioned that the outing be closed, he should have politely been told "thanks, but we'll go elsewhere."

I just belive that the way the eventing public is treated is more important than any one event/outing/landowner - this is a sport that NEEDS more public support, we don't need to be making people mad and sending them away!

But this is just mho and clearly, no one listens to me anyway! :lol:

[LexInVA]

Wasn't that an integral part of the debate between USET and AHSA that produced USEF et al? Perhaps the real question is, why didn't it happen?

Economics has a lot to do with it and a lot of what was "supposed to happen" was a bit of a pipe dream created by feel good posturing on behalf of those who really wanted to get support for the USEF to come about. What happened is that the dream quickly faded and all that came about was an extension of the philosophies and mindset that has been the hallmark of those behind the USET. The economics of sending the top riders overseas is simply beyond the financial reach of the USEF as an organization (and they knew that going into it) but they also thought that they could get massive amounts of donations to use for the purposes of development by putting on dog and pony shows and selling "the dream" to the masses but that didn't really work out the way they had planned because a lot of riders have different priorities in today's economy.

[eventrider]

I went and crashed the party today....and I just wanted to note that from what I heard, Jim Cogdell had nothing to do with the outing being closed. I do not think it had anything to do with economics, or the land owner. There are always politics behind everything.

[asterix]

Interesting that there were comments reported in the COTH coverage that the lack of atmosphere was something the riders felt they had to "compensate" for...

[snoopy]

I went and crashed the party today....and I just wanted to note that from what I heard, Jim Cogdell had nothing to do with the outing being closed. I do not think it had anything to do with economics, or the land owner. There are always politics behind everything.


Surprise surprise:(

[pwynnnorman]

What was the course like, eventrider?

[arnika]

Does anyone know why the coverage doesn't say anything other than "all nine finished the xc without injury"? No remarks on the course, how any individual horse or rider did, what the placings are. What is the big deal with all the secrecy! The dressage coverage is the same way, horrible.

I have had a subscription to CoTH for over 20 years and I am ashamed to say this is some of the worst reporting I have ever seen for the magazine. If I wanted to read a fluff piece with no substance I would buy a gossip mag. Reminds me quite a bit of the Sidelines reporting by Mason Phelps.

I'm sorry this sounds so negative but it really bothers me that we've gone from picking the best out in front of the world to secret training, secret selections and gossip.

ETA: I just saw the thread with the coverage from USEA. At least that talks a little bit about the course and listed some actual info about how some of the combos did.

[TripleC]

What everyone is loosing track of is the fact that these Selection Trials are NOT a competion. (Hence no scores) The are simply the final test of soundness to see which horses are going to be able to make the grueling trip and stay sound to run at the ULTIMATE competion, the Olympics. The horse/rider combos at are at The Fork right now have ALREADY qualified to be on the team.

In addition to the above, the "Committee" is also taking into consideration the individual riders experience at the International level, as well as the HORSES experience. Obviously they have a very good idea right now which riders & horses will be best suited to represent the US, but the need one final look to make sure. And, that "look" is a COMPLETE vet check after they have run over an abbreviated XC course, much more than seeing how they "do" at The Fork. Everyone who is there is more than capable of running a 4 star event. And most just did at Rolex (which, by the way, all those "supporters" could have come to watch).

Yes, its a shame that they weren't able to open it to the public, but get real - please! The FEI & USEF are NOT our enemies. We are all supporters and just because this final look at the potential team members was not completely open to the public, does not mean they are not deserving of our support. I seriously doubt that all those that are spouting the sour grapes of not being "invited" had planned to go anyway!

I was at the Selection Trails before Athens and there was not a huge turnout. And most definately anyone that really wanted to go to The Fork, could have made that plan one way or another. I have made some donations to USET over the past year and received an invitation by one of the riders I support, and I am sure that anyone else that showed their support over the past year (or more) would have been invited as well.

So PLEASE, give these people a break (Jim Codgell, USEF, USET and most importantly the riders & horses). We need unity in Eventing right now, not a bunch of whining that we didn't get invited to the party.

[CBudFrggy]

TripleC--I think you missed the point. It's like having a relative that lives far away, who is getting married, and just because they think you won't come, they don't send you an invitation, and you feel left out. :no:

Yeah--you'll send them a present or gift card anyway, b/c after all they're family and word gets around. :yes: But you don't feel the joy of giving b/c it's reduced to just an obligation.

While many of us surely wouldn't have come, it would have been nice to be invited. I think many here are re-prioritizing our "gifts" lately.

[Shrapnel]

What everyone is loosing track of is the fact that these Selection Trials are NOT a competion. (Hence no scores)

No, it is not a competition. HOWEVER, these riders DID receive scores in dressage and we (the public) would like to know what they were. They shouldn't be a secret. I mean, its not like its up to us who makes the team etc. We would just like to know how OUR riders are doing.

I mean, what the heck?

For the 2004 Athens Olympics and for the 2006 Aachen WEG, the Mandatory Outings were scored and placings were given. See... http://eventingetc.com/2004/july_sept/reports/report_mandatory_outing_june_13.htm

I just don't understand the "secrecy" behind it all this year.

[TripleC]

The outing began with the dressage test designed specifically for the 2008 Olympic Games. The test was judged by dressage legend Jessica Ransenhousen who critiqued the riders after their rides.

The test includes shoulder-in to half pass, four flying changes and canter serpentines and the all the riders showed that three days of intensive training under the watchful eye of Capt. Mark Phillips was valuable.

"The riders had some great feedback from Jessica," said Phillips.

Because the mandatory outing isn't a competition, scores were used as a basis for analysis only.

[canyonoak]

But the U.S. eventing riders on short list who chose to go to England went to a COMPETITION, and were quoted as saying how important such an atmosphere is for their own focus, for the horses, etc etc etc.

How unbelievably sad that the same chance was not afforded the riders/horses here.

No.
It was just a poor decision. Again.

[deltawave]

They are simply the final test of soundness to see which horses are going to be able to make the grueling trip and stay sound to run at the ULTIMATE competion, the Olympics.

The Olympics (CCI*** without SC) are hardly the ULTIMATE level of competition.

[flyingchange]

I just don't see how this "bifurcated" (ha ha ha ha ha) selection trials format creates a level playing field for the athletes to showcase their horses on equal grounds. Barbury Castle CCI and The Fork in July are two very different environments. Were the selectors (all of them) at Barbury last weekend? Was Jessica R there to watch all of the tests????

The horses that ran at Barbury ran over en entire CIC *** course, while the horses at The Fork ran over an abbreviated course - sounds almost like the latter were XC schooling at best. The former were out competing with the crem de la crem of Europe (or at least of the UK) in a real compettion. Again - how are these results comparable? Especially in terms of dressage and SJ - where the atmosphere can make, as we all know, a huge difference in performance of both horse and rider.

I just think this selection process format, from making the athletes perform at near-top-capacity one month before the Games, to selections based out of two entirely different venues, is stoopid.

[TripleC]

The riders had a choice of which selection trial to attend. They made the decision based on what THEY would think would be the better format, not only for the committee to determine suitability and soundess, but also (should they be chosen) to get in another "school" before Hong Kong. For instance, some are greener (Mandiba), so need the extra exposure and experience, while others (Connaught, Northern Spy) are seasoned campaingers and don't need to do another full on event before Hong Kong.
Don't forget, it is not the results of either Bradbury or the Fork (no results) that will determine whether they are on the team or not. That decision has pretty much already been made. Its just one last look and one last MAJOR vetting and already a few of the horses have not passed so are out.

[TripleC]

2008 Olympic Eventing Selection Trials


Show Jumping Finishes With A Happy Majority


Several pairs showed off their show jumping prowess in today's Mandatory Outing conclusion.

There may not have been a victory gallop after the conclusion of today’s USEF Mandatory Outing for Olympic Eventing, but there were plenty of performances worth celebrating.

Because selection for the Olympic eventing team is subjective, scores and placings were not awarded this weekend. All nine horses passed this morning’s jogs and completed the show jumping course today, and the majority of riders were happy to know that had there been a scoreboard, their rounds would have added nothing but zeros to it.

Five of the nine pairs jumped without fault. Phillip Dutton and Connaught logged the first clear round, putting in a calculated and careful performance. They were followed by Bonnie Mosser and Merloch, who zipped energetically through the course without error. Becky Holder on Courageous Comet seem to have dispelled their show jumping troubles, logging a very relaxed clear round as well. Bruce Davidson on Ballynoecastle RM and Jennifer Wooten on The Good Witch also showed impressive form.

Single-rail rounds went to Heidi White-Carty on Northern Spy and Dutton on Woodburn, both of which came at relatively easy, straightforward fences. Kim Severson and Tipperary Liadhnan knocked two poles; they struggled with striding in a difficult, forward 5-stride line which troubled several pairs. Will Faudree pulled an unfortunate three rails with Antigua.

There will be an added emphasis on show jumping at this year's Olympic Games, as the format will require riders to finish the team competition, then come back to jump a second show jumping round to determine the individual medal winners.

White-Carty, who won the CIC***-W here in April but then suffered a disappointing fall in the final water complex at the Rolex Kentucky CCI****, said she was thrilled with her weekend overall. They put in a very competitive dressage test and had a confident run across country yesterday.

“I had a great run here [in April] but then obviously a little hiccup in Kentucky, so it was good to come here and feel like he and I were [back in sync],” she said. “I thought it was a really good kind of prep training thing. We’re preparing for the big one, so this was a really good way to compete but practice at the same time.”

White-Carty said “Fergus” jumped “out of his skin” today. They pulled their one rail at a large stand-alone oxer, and, like many riders, she chose to go back and school a few fences after completing her round.

“We didn’t need to go back and jump it again, but that’s what I loved about this,” White-Carty explained. “I said, ‘You know, I think I want to do 1 to 2 again. And it wasn’t like when you were done, they kicked you out. You talked about it and you went back and did it, cause it’s practice.”

It was a bittersweet weekend for Faudree, whose 19-year-old Antigua is the oldest horse on the Short List. Faudree said he was disappointed with the rides he gave his longtime partner in the dressage and show jumping phases.

“I did too much in the [dressage] warm-up trying to make it perfect instead of allowing it to be what it’s been, which is very, very good,” Faudree said. “I think I just overdid it a little bit. He got tired in the canter work and I just lost him in the changes. In my attempts to keep my legs very still on him, I get too heavy in my seat, which is why he swaps behind.”

The pair’s three rails in today’s show jumping came at the front rail of the first oxer, a vertical off a tough 5-stride line, and the final jump.

“He doesn’t have the springs he once had, but he jumped out of his skin except for where we had rails,” Faudree said. “I just rode him underpowered and should have put him on his feet.”

Faudree was plenty happy with yesterday’s cross-country round, however.

“He’s amazing,” he said simply. “This will be the one thing I miss the most. He’s a cross-country horse. That’s what he’s known for. I thought of that yesterday going cross-country, that maybe this is our last one.

“He’s pulling me to the finish, just loving every bit of it. I’ve had such amazing goes on him and I’ve gotten to do so much. And I’ve said all summer long that this horse doesn’t owe it to me to go to the Olympics this year. So it’s like, how do I tell this horse that he can’t do it anymore? We always wait for them to tell us, but he still hasn’t told me yet.”

Chef d’Equipe Capt. Mark Phillips was pleased to finish the weekend with a full roster of capable Olympic candidates.

“I think we’ve had a good weekend and everybody’s in one piece, which hasn’t always been the case at some of these final outings,” he acknowledged.

Because Phillips has been training the Short Listed riders almost daily all spring, he wasn’t surprised by the solid performances this weekend.

“Because you’re with them everyday, you pretty much know what’s coming,” he said. “We’ve always got more work to do. The job is never done. Now we just go and do what we can do and see what’s in the cards.”

Ann Taylor and her fellow USEF selectors now have the monumental task of choosing the team by tomorrow evening.

“I think we all kind of sit down with our pieces of paper and try to weigh up the different odds,” she said. “Then we also have talks with the coach and the vets, and the vets would play a pretty major role in the final decision.”

“I think you couldn’t ask for a better last outing with your horse,” Taylor continued. “It’s been good preparation. I think we’ve got a great group of people and some nice horses, so we just need a little bit of luck.”

The Short Listed horses will undergo extensive veterinary inspections over the next day and a half, and the team will be publicly announced on Monday.

Meanwhile, the riders will be waiting with bated breath.

“Fingers crossed,” White said. “It’s going to be a long 48 hours!”

[TripleC]

While events across the country are beginning to draw larger and larger crowds, many in the eventing community were disappointed to learn that this year’s Mandatory Outing at The Fork Stables was closed to the public.

Short Listed rider Karen O’Connor noted that she chose to travel to England to participate in the Mandatory Outing there, held in conjunction with the Barbury Castle CIC***.

“The Fork is a fantastic facility, and Jim Cogdell is really generous to offer his property, but this is just right for me,” she explained in an earlier interview. “Although it will be a fantastic competition for those that compete in it, there will be little to no atmosphere.”

Unlike the Mandatory Outing at Barbury Castle, this weekend’s event has been handled more as a training session than a competition. There will be no placings, and scores have not been made public. A far cry from the Olympic Games, it’s also significantly lacking in foam fingers, cowbells and air horns.

“Sometimes it’s a little bit easier to put your game face on when you have a crowd to play to,” admitted rider Becky Holder. “But it was a unique experience to really hone our skills and our training and really prepare for the Olympic Games, which is, I think, what they really meant to do.”

Holder, whose mount Courageous Comet already has plenty of experience in high-stress situations, said she never considered going to England for Barbury.

“I really thought that being out in the heat would be a good test on where he was,” she said. “I really wanted to kind of get a read on how he reacted. Plus, being close to home and close to people who support me and love me is where I draw my strength from, so that was the right decision for me, but everyone has to make the right decision for themselves and their horse.”

Buck Davidson, who is the only rider on the Short List to have competed in Hong Kong, said he knew participating in the Mandatory Outing at The Fork was the best choice for he and his horse, Ballynoecastle RM. But for the grassroots element of the sport, he still wished there had been changes.

“I’m not even saying you can recreate [the atmosphere of the Games] – I just think it would be good for the sport,” said Buck Davidson. “It’s a beautiful farm, and they’ve done a fantastic job of getting everybody to get this place ready and we’ve all worked hard, so it would maybe be nice to have a crowd of people here to see it.”

Phillip Dutton, who has two horses on the Short List, also expressed regret that the public couldn’t be on hand to watch the future team one last time. “I thought it was disappointing for the fans who wanted to give us a boost and farewell,” he said.

“It’s too bad,” added Davidson. “Look at all the other sports – this is something they can hang their hat on. I live just outside Philadelphia, and I know nothing about gymnastics, but I could tell you everything about where and when the gymnastics championships are, because it’s all over the place. You might not know anything about eventing, but you put up the rings, and people will show up. It’s a great way to showcase our sport, and it’s too bad they didn’t.”

The “they” in that equation is the USEF, which organizes all team selection processes. Mandatory Outings in past years have been open to the public, but typically grew small crowds, according to USEF Director of Sport Programs Jim Wolf. He noted that the decision to close this year’s outing was based on infrastructure and finances, and not landowner issues.

“We had no intention of excluding anyone,” Wolf said. “But we’re using it as a mandatory outing. It’s not a competition. And honestly it’s not much to sell to a sponsor.”

Jennifer Wooten, who traveled from the West Coast for Short List training, said she knew of several people in California who would have come to support the team if the Mandatory Outing had been open. She suggested eventers try harder to market their sport and use the outing as a fundraiser, as the U.S. Olympic Dressage Team does.

Wolf said the USEF is always open to future changes, but because the outing doesn’t coincide with a pre-existing competition like it does for dressage, it would also be difficult to make it into a fundraising event or sell tickets.

“When you open it up to the public, you have to have a second ambulance, rope the galloping lanes, take out a different kind of insurance, provide the Port-A-Johns,” he said. “You have to give them something to drink, you have to park the cars. It’s not as easy as I think a lot of people are making it out to be. For 11 horses it’s just not a viable proposition.

“At the end of the day, the point of this weekend is to select the best possible team to represent us at the Olympic Games,” he continued. “All that other stuff would have been a big distraction both personnel-wise and financially, and it would have been counterproductive for us while we’re trying to field the best possible team. We wanted to use our resources in the most responsible way.”

The Short List riders see both sides of the coin. While opening the event to the public fosters good will and team spirit, they also have a serious task at hand. Diverting time and money from the selection process could also hinder their goals.

“Yes, having it open to the public would be fantastic, but you have to understand the legalities of it and the infrastructure that’s needed,” acknowledged rider Bonnie Mosser. “I just saw somebody drive right out on the cross-country course today. That’s somebody that’s probably never been here. It’s stuff like that. I definitely made sure that I had people around me that I wanted to have here. I feel it’s the best way to give our own selves support. I hope that in the future they’ll plan it that way [open to the public], because I think a lot of the riders like it, but then it has to be funded also.”

Changes may happen for future Olympic Games, but for now the USEF is concentrating firmly on the more imminent August.

“The bottom line is, we need every cent we can get to send these athletes to China,” said Wolf. “It’s going to be very expensive. At the end of the day we made what I still think was a very sound decision, though I know some people were disappointed.”

[canyonoak]

<<“The bottom line is, we need every cent we can get to send these athletes to China,” said Wolf. “It’s going to be very expensive. At the end of the day we made what I still think was a very sound decision, though I know some people were disappointed.”>>

Gee, thanks for the entire press release.

If USEF really wanted some money,gee, I think they could have arranged the Mandatory outing so it was open to public on a pay-for view basis, produced a Silent Auction, etc etc.,much as the Dressage Selection Trials just did.

I believe the USEF party in California has been saying it raised about $280,000.

[flyingchange]

yeah, TC, I am aware that this format allowed the riders to choose based on their horses' needs. Too bad the Olympics doesn't allows you to choose to either school XC or do a real competition. Ditto the other phases. Furthermore, your theory has holes. Poggio is probably one of the most, if not THE most experienced int'l competitor in this group. But he went to Barbury.

I'm just saying that the playing field is/was not level and imho makes it hard to justify the team decision based on the mandatory outings, which were far from being equal.

Also, there were plenty of horses at The Fork who could have benefited from the atmosphere of an HT like Barbury (ie, Woodburn, The Good Witch) but whose outing was at The Fork. Poggio has done the Olympics and the WEG, so did he really "need" the outing at Barbury?

It just makes no sense - our selection format. Do England, France, Australia, NZ, or Germany have these kinds of mandatory outings or do they pick the team based on HT and 3day performance?

[TripleC]

RE: produced a Silent Auction, etc etc.,much as the Dressage

They did that this winter in Aiken. Phillip hosted an open house, party, silent auction at his farm. EVERYONE was invited and many, many true "supporters" attended (and many of these people WERE at The Fork this weekend as "friends") , but it wasn't enough. (A similar function was held in Wellington) We all know Dressage riders have MUCH more financial backing than eventers AND they are not trying to send 10 people, PLUS 5 horses and grooms etc. to Hong Kong. You can't compare what the Dressage riders needed to do in their Selection Trials to what the Event Riders (and Selectors) needed- its apples and oranges. Its just a shame so many are sitting back criticizing how the selection trials "should" have been run. If you were willing to attend in on a paying basis as a fundraiser, then A) Where were you at the fundraisers that HAVE been held. And B) Why didn't you get involved and offer to run a fundraiser in your town, or a Silent Auction or even HIRE one of the possible team members to run a clinic (thereby providigng them some income)? Or, at this point, why don't you simply pick your favorite team member and make a donation. They are ALL having to pay a huge part of the expense to go to Hong Kong OUT OF POCKET. They will not get all the money they need from USET. All of the negative diatribes on the BB have abosulely nothing to do about support and everything to do about Sour Grapes. Its a shame. The same people who say The Fork should have been run differently this weekend, are the same ones who sit back and say Eventing needs "fixing" - but then do absolutely nothing in either instance about it. Please don't waste so much energy on grumbling about it all, use some of that energy to reach into your pocketbook and give a little bit (I promise you, even if you ARE a member of either USEA or USEF the little bit of money that comes from your nominal membership fee does practicially NOTHING to support the team). The majority of the support is coming from the USET and all the extra work they do to get other sponsorship and the HUGE shortfall is coming from the riders themselves as well as their true "supporters" family and friends.
Do something. They STILL need your help, not your complaints.

[TripleC]

<<“The bottom line is, we need every cent we can get to send these athletes to China,” said Wolf. “It’s going to be very expensive. At the end of the day we made what I still think was a very sound decision, though I know some people were disappointed.”>>

Gee, thanks for the entire press release.

If USEF really wanted some money,gee, I think they could have arranged the Mandatory outing so it was open to public on a pay-for view basis, produced a Silent Auction, etc etc.,much as the Dressage Selection Trials just did.

I believe the USEF party in California has been saying it raised about $280,000.

PS PAY ATTENTION!! It is not the USEF that needs the money - it is the TEAM!! And incidently, it us actually "USET" that provides the bulk of the funding.

[Gnep]

Triple C,

You are not geting it, as the USEF and USET and the so called Team are not geting it.

Instaed of throwing a big party, making the mandatory a happening for eventing, they close the doors and officialy allow only special guests.

But they want the money of the not so special guests.

Instead of letting half the team do their thing overseas, they should have had all candidates at the mandetory, should have made it a huge affaire for the general public, should have paraded the candidates and their horses, autograf, team shirts the whole f..... nine yards, include the public, make them welcome, spent money to make money, thats how other sports do it.
They want my money, they have to show me that they are worth my money, besides sitting nicely on a horse.
Out of pocket, wow, that is empressive. Going or beeing selected, increases your market value, its an investment they make in them self, so that is a real heart breaker for me to know they actual have to invest some of their own money in this enterprise.

Triple C give me just one real good reason, better be real good, why for example I should raise money or give money to those people or any organisation that provides for those people.

It is a very snobistic, arrogant club, up there on top.

[pwynnnorman]

Instead of letting half the team do their thing overseas, they should have had all candidates at the mandetory, should have made it a huge affaire for the general public, should have paraded the candidates and their horses, autograf, team shirts the whole f..... nine yards, include the public, make them welcome, spent money to make money, thats how other sports do it.


Seconded.

[JER]

Thirded.

[LexInVA]

Fourtheded times two + infinity squared!

[TripleC]

[QUOTE=flyingchange;3356189]Furthermore, your theory has holes. Poggio is probably one of the most, if not THE most experienced int'l competitor in this group. But he went to Barbury. QUOTE]

FC - Amy brought Poggio to Bradbury because he didn't do Rolex (which was OKd by the Captain) . And while he had already qualified to go to Hong Kong w/previous wins, he still HAD to do one of the Mandetory Selection Trials. She chose Bradbury because she knows (and we know) that she is definately on the team (lucky us, they are super performers), so she felt it better to simply ship him from the West Coast directly to England do Bradbury (a walk in the park for Poggio) where he will do the Quarantine and then go on to Hong Kong, as compared to coming all the way out to The Fork, THEN to England, then to Hong Kong. Go Amy!

[TripleC]

Triple C,

You are not geting it, as the USEF and USET and the so called Team are not geting it.

Instaed of throwing a big party, making the mandatory a happening for eventing, they close the doors and officialy allow only special guests.

But they want the money of the not so special guests.

Instead of letting half the team do their thing overseas, they should have had all candidates at the mandetory, should have made it a huge affaire for the general public, should have paraded the candidates and their horses, autograf, team shirts the whole f..... nine yards, include the public, make them welcome, spent money to make money, thats how other sports do it.
They want my money, they have to show me that they are worth my money, besides sitting nicely on a horse.
Out of pocket, wow, that is empressive. Going or beeing selected, increases your market value, its an investment they make in them self, so that is a real heart breaker for me to know they actual have to invest some of their own money in this enterprise.

Triple C give me just one real good reason, better be real good, why for example I should raise money or give money to those people or any organisation that provides for those people.

It is a very snobistic, arrogant club, up there on top.

Yes, gala affair would have been very nice (as were the ones that were already held over the winter - which were a wonderful show of support, but honestly when you pay for all the tents, catering etc. don't raise all that much money) , but see previous posts about costs, etc. Yikes, why so hostile towards the ones "on top" You are talking about our elite athletes (both riders and horses), the best of the best that have worked DAMNED hard to get there. Thats a pretty mean spirited thing to say, they DO NOT "just sit pretty on a horse."

Why should we support them? Because we are Eventers and we respect an appreciate what they have done and where they are.

What is "snobistic and arrogant" are people who sit at home writing on BBs about people they don't know, and throw arrows at their accomplishments.

Its OK, you can keep what little money you are harbouring for yourself. With such a bad attitude about the sport and the people in it, we really don't need it.

[TripleC]

Also, there were plenty of horses at The Fork who could have benefited from the atmosphere of an HT like Barbury (ie, Woodburn, The Good Witch) but whose outing was at The Fork. Poggio has done the Olympics and the WEG, so did he really "need" the outing at Barbury?

It just makes no sense - our selection format. Do England, France, Australia, NZ, or Germany have these kinds of mandatory outings or do they pick the team based on HT and 3day performance?


PS, FC - Yes for sure, these greener horses would have benefited from being at Bradbury. But the owners/riders know that these horses arent going to make the team (neither Horse really w/enough of the International experience to make the cut), so they chose instead to stay closer to home and do The Fork as more of a training session. But you can bet that both horses will be watched closely over the next 4 years for London. Sure hope Good Witch makes it, very cool horse.

RE: Qualifiers from other countries, not quite sure, but I know if you go to the FEI website, it does detail which events the applicants must complete (and with with what scores) in order to qualify.

[snoopy]

Its OK, you can keep what little money you are harbouring for yourself. With such a bad attitude about the sport and the people in it, we really don't need it.


Wow...give a bit of money, get an invitation and you consider yourself "we".:lol::lol: As far as "we really don't need it"...I do not think any team rider, USET or the USEF would endorse that remark. But one should be very careful for what one asks for...or doesn't in this case.

[RunForIt]

Wow...give a bit of money, get an invitation and you consider yourself "we".:lol::lol: As far as "we really don't need it"...I do not think any team rider, USET or the USEF would endorse that remark. But one should be very careful for what one asks for...or doesn't in this case.

y'know, whoever this TripleC person is, I wouldn't even bother making as an insightful comment as you did - all of us - us people known as "we" - have at some point posted our names, USEA numbers, horse's names, ....- this person's idea might better be dealt with as "respectful" NO COMMENT.

p.s. I also understand and respect why you haven't lifted the mystery as to your persona! :D :cool:

[Gnep]

Triple C,
Your attitude, is that a reflection of the attitude of the people you are endorsing so much, some times hanging out with the wonders of the equestrian world does rubb something off, attitude ? maybe ?

You see, they do not realy impress me to much in the end they put their pants on the same way as I do, one leg at a time.

But keep on going, its educational, tell us more about The Captains Private Riding Club, The CPRC.
It might need CPR at one point.

[flyingchange]

PS, FC - Yes for sure, these greener horses would have benefited from being at Bradbury. But the owners/riders know that these horses arent going to make the team (neither Horse really w/enough of the International experience to make the cut), so they chose instead to stay closer to home and do The Fork as more of a training session. But you can bet that both horses will be watched closely over the next 4 years for London. Sure hope Good Witch makes it, very cool horse.


It's Barbury. Not Bradbury.

[snoopy]

p.s. I also understand and respect why you haven't lifted the mystery as to your persona! :D :cool:


And this is the perfect time to expand on this comment further.

I am privy to much information BECAUSE of the secrecy...That information would surely be witheld if I were to post my name...kind of like the invitations one gets...stop the contributions and the invitations stop arriving. Through a user name I am able to contribute a bit deeper to some coversations....to the obvious discontent of some.

[Snapdragon]

And this is the perfect time to expand on this comment further.

I am privy to much information BECAUSE of the secrecy...That information would surely be witheld if I were to post my name...kind of like the invitations one gets...stop the contributions and the invitations stop arriving. Through a user name I am able to contribute a bit deeper to some coversations....to the obvious discontent of some.

Ooooo, and the mystery thickens! Who are you masked man?:lol:

Editing to add, can you answer why the secrecy? Is the CIA involved? Is there some eventing Jihad we should know about?

[shea'smom]

Snoopy, excuse me but, Oh brother. I also have inside scoop on very pertinent topics due to my friendship with several officials. I do not repeat those remarks. I would rather have my name/website out there for people here to see who I am and what my opinions are.
This is a petty argument. It could all have been handled differently, maybe it will next time, so let it go and support our athletes.
WE are eventers, we support each other, be it the little unrecognized horse trial or the Olympics.
I live 2 hours from The Fork and was planning on running down this weekend until I read it was closed. So, it was too bad for me, but I understand the headache it involves to ready a place to be open to the public.
Also, it seems to me, there is no benefit to having it closed, so what are these supposed political underhanded dealings?
This whole topic has been blown out of proportion, imho.

[Fence2Fence]

FC - Amy brought Poggio to Bradbury because he didn't do Rolex (which was OKd by the Captain) . And while he had already qualified to go to Hong Kong w/previous wins, he still HAD to do one of the Mandetory Selection Trials. She chose Bradbury because she knows (and we know) that she is definately on the team (lucky us, they are super performers), so she felt it better to simply ship him from the West Coast directly to England do Bradbury (a walk in the park for Poggio) where he will do the Quarantine and then go on to Hong Kong, as compared to coming all the way out to The Fork, THEN to England, then to Hong Kong. Go Amy!

Amy is on the team? I thought the team wasn't going to be announced until Monday. Did I miss something?

:winkgrin:

[Hidden]

"Its OK, you can keep what little money you are harbouring for yourself. With such a bad attitude about the sport and the people in it, we really don't need it"

Glad you have such a lovely attitude yourself about those who are the grass roots of the sport. "We" really won't get my little money. Your attitude is just the cherry on top of this, hope your money is enough to keep all those ULR going for a long time. I will enjoy my "little money" with investments in my horse and my riding.

[fooler]

RE: produced a Silent Auction, etc etc.,much as the Dressage

They did that this winter in Aiken. Phillip hosted an open house, party, silent auction at his farm. EVERYONE was invited and many, many true "supporters" attended (and many of these people WERE at The Fork this weekend as "friends") , but it wasn't enough. (A similar function was held in Wellington) We all know Dressage riders have MUCH more financial backing than eventers AND they are not trying to send 10 people, PLUS 5 horses and grooms etc. to Hong Kong. You can't compare what the Dressage riders needed to do in their Selection Trials to what the Event Riders (and Selectors) needed- its apples and oranges. Its just a shame so many are sitting back criticizing how the selection trials "should" have been run. If you were willing to attend in on a paying basis as a fundraiser, then A) Where were you at the fundraisers that HAVE been held. And B) Why didn't you get involved and offer to run a fundraiser in your town, or a Silent Auction or even HIRE one of the possible team members to run a clinic (thereby providigng them some income)? Or, at this point, why don't you simply pick your favorite team member and make a donation. They are ALL having to pay a huge part of the expense to go to Hong Kong OUT OF POCKET. They will not get all the money they need from USET. All of the negative diatribes on the BB have abosulely nothing to do about support and everything to do about Sour Grapes. Its a shame. The same people who say The Fork should have been run differently this weekend, are the same ones who sit back and say Eventing needs "fixing" - but then do absolutely nothing in either instance about it. Please don't waste so much energy on grumbling about it all, use some of that energy to reach into your pocketbook and give a little bit (I promise you, even if you ARE a member of either USEA or USEF the little bit of money that comes from your nominal membership fee does practicially NOTHING to support the team). The majority of the support is coming from the USET and all the extra work they do to get other sponsorship and the HUGE shortfall is coming from the riders themselves as well as their true "supporters" family and friends.
Do something. They STILL need your help, not your complaints.

FYI - I did receive the invitation to Dutton's fund raiser - on a Monday night. I live in Camden, SC and work in Charlotte, NC - Monday thru Friday. Due to schedules and requirements at work there was no way I was able to attend on a work night.
Since I do not work Saturday & Sunday - I could have and would have attended a silent auction, or other options, in conjunction with a mandatory outing.
Also I did attend a mandatory outing at Pine Top Farms in 1995, no concessions provided nor expected. Fortunately there were port-a-potties:)
The point being, if you let us know it will be a bare bones event, we will adapt - we are eventers after all. . . .