Darren is back! [Archive] - Chronicle Forums

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:15 AM

As much as I want to support Darren, it is clear he is not right. The combination at Red Hills was not a 5 stride.. the long option was. The way Darren went was a 2 stride( he was right about the jump itself) the long way was a bending 5. Also, Ruthie Harbison was the rider before him and went the straight way. For those of you who want to question what I am saying, I was competing and walked the course..and his family showed me the video in the hospital the day they got it. It was a 2...Darrens horse jumped off the bank, slightly right, Darren being the great jockey..pulled him back left..and in the horse's inexperience, he tried to put in 3 strides(which couldn't be done) That is all there was to it. It worries me a bit that Darren does not know what the striding was after watching the video "over and over". I hope that quote from Darren was a misprint by the Chronicle, or someone needs to be looking after Darren more closely.
Jill

silver2

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:14 AM

This seems like a spectacularly bad idea. I sincerely hope he is not allowed to compete so soon after a Grade V concussion + a week long coma.

Most sports organisations, amateur or professional, would not allow this.

ezmissg

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:20 AM

piaffeprincess98

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:15 AM

I thought his COTH article said he would start at the "lower levels". I just knew he didn't mean novice with Windfall! But I expected training or below with his greenies.

J Swan

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:23 AM

There was a pretty long article in COTH recently; he's been cleared to ride by 2 neurologists.

Make of it what you will.

sidepasser

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:42 AM

Isn't it true that many people have no recollection of the events leading up to an accident (right before/during/right after) due to the brain sort of turning off the trauma? Perhaps I am not explaining it very well, but when I had my life threatening accident, I remember a few hazy details such as getting on the mare, she took about ten steps at the walk, and the next thing I remember is waking up in the hospital days later.

I was TOLD that the mare exploded, violently bucking/sunfishing, and then cartwheeled over and landed on top of me, her croup landing on my neck and head - but I do not remember anything of that at all.

Perhaps Darren has the same thing going on regarding the striding? At any rate, if he's been cleared to compete by doctors, I am sure they would not put him in harm's way intentionally and perhaps Darren needs to "go back to work" as I do believe he derives his income from riding/training and this accident, like mine, has likely depleted much of his money.

I wish him well and hope that he continues to ride successfully. Coming back from any accident is very hard, coming back from one such as his isn't easier if one continues to wait. I do believe it gives one too much time to think and question resulting in a less likely scenario of riding and becoming more apprehensive about giving it a go.

shea'smom

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:55 AM

Well, I think if he has been cleared by his doctors, he should be good to go. I hope things go well for him.
I do think one horse to start with would be better.

horsekpr

Jul. 2, 2008, 07:59 AM

I find it a bit scarey.Sure he needs to work and make money,but if he has another fall ,doesn't even have to be bad,so soon after such a massive head trauma,who knows if he will ever recover.On his website he says something like he was in a coma for 65 days.Now he wasn't actually in a coma for more than a week,but he feels like it took that long to snap out of it,so that tells me his brain was pretty scrambled. I agree that someone should be watching out for him.I mean,it is his choice,but he might not have the best judgement right now. Probably like most men,he isn't going to listen to anyone.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:03 AM

Like everyone else, I wish him well and to be blessed with the best of health and riding.

ValleyMiss

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:11 AM

I was glad to hear from his column in COTH that he was doing better and getting back to riding. However I do have to agree that it seems a bit premature to be riding 2 prelim horses and a training horse in his first time back. And you know what's wrong with taking a horse novice or training, even a trained horse that has competed upper levels? That was a MAJOR injury he had just 4 months ago. I honestly have to question him doing so much so soon.

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:19 AM

A doctor can't really "clear" anyone to do anything in the sense that by declaring someone "cleared" they can't impart any sort of magical protection. A doctor can only discuss risk vs. benefit, outline the pros and cons, and let the individual make a choice.

Now in the setting of a professional sport (say football) it's different, and the team doctor can make a declaration that a player MAY or MAY NOT compete. That is a contractual on top of an ethical issue on top of a medical issue on top of a liability issue.

I have no way at all of knowing, nor am I even remotely expert on the current recommendations regarding return to competition after closed head injury, but I'd wager that Darren has made his own choice and his doctors have given him their conditional "approval" only after making sure he realizes the risk. A doctor can't, after all, bodily prevent him from riding.

Personally, I think it's insane. But that's a non-expert opinion.

Old Time Rider

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:24 AM

Speaking from experience (stroke victum), hind sight is 20/20, and I wish Darren well. But, neurologists have book knowledge and no personal experience of what really is going. Unless they ride event horses, they have absolutely no idea the physical-mental-balance-timing etc etc involved in riding an event horse. And while I understand Darren's wanting to get his life back (and it's not just a man thing), I do pray he's ready to compete.

canterlope

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:25 AM

Like he said in his article, "no one tells me what to do." Too bad his horses don't have the same privilege.

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:30 AM

I wish him well, not only for himself and his horses, but for eventing as a whole. The ramifications if it all goes south are horrendous for an already troubled sport. We desperately need a "return to play" policy such as that in place for soccer, football, NASCAR, etc.

goobs

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:37 AM

Well "cleared to ride" is a very broad statement - are his doctors "horsey" as in do they know the mental acuity and the physical demand it takes to do a horse trial (even at the lower levels you need all your faculties about you 100%).

Darren takes very good care of himself but he doesn't have to be superman just yet - then again he is an adult and he does have a business to get back to - I hope he will be okay not only at this venue but for the next year that he is showing.

sidepasser

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:39 AM

veezee

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:41 AM

c_expresso

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:03 AM

Flame me if you will, but it comes of as pretentious and careless to have a horrific wreck at preliminary on a questionably ready horse, and then be back with two at prelim as soon as possible.

Classic Melody

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:08 AM

And we have wondered where Laine got her "return to the top as soon as possible at any cost" attitude. It’s clearly pervasive at the upper echelon of the sport.

silver pine

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:15 AM

This is crazy. Given the nature of his brain injury- and that is what it is, everyone keeps calling is a concission as if that makes it less bad, he is brain injured! The nature of his brain injury prevents good decision making, some people are forever unable to make good decisions and others get better and better at it as time goes by. The ability to make sound decision in an instant can take years and infact may neve come back at all. He may be cognativley intact enough to make good dicisions in day to day life- which is wonderful and for which we are all very thankful- but to do that over a prelim and above course is a whole other story. I'm fairly sure every Neurologist I have come accross (I'm a physical therapist) would not know the first thing about eventing or the mental acuity involved.

As some one else has pointed out who makes the return to play decisions for the ULR's? Should there be a "vetting" of the rider as well as the horse. The horse needs to be of sound mind and body and its about time the rider met the same criteria!

pwynnnorman

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:22 AM

On Second Thought

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:25 AM

If he has had two neurologist clear him then what more can he do. He needs to live his life to the fullest as he has learned each day is precious and if he needs to keep riding and competing than so be it. It's his life and we can only hope things go safely and wish him the best.:)

Seriously? I mean I could see this being a plausibly acceptable argument if Darren was entering a mechanical bull competition, or mountain biking down a totally abandoned trail.

That is not the case. As Canterlope said, this sport involves another sentient being who has no say in the decision, but in the end can pay the ultimate price.

I have no doubt that if Darren's mount could speak he would look at him and say "Dude, you're kinda tweaked. Everyone knows you're still NQR, I ain't so much as jumping a stick with you as a pilot." (all said with some sort of charming accent I'm sure).

But alas, that can't happen.

I do sincerely hope that everyone is wrong; that the impression he's leaving people with is a misperception, and this isn't as colossal of a bad decision as it seems.

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:28 AM

Flame me if you will, but it comes of as pretentious and careless to have a horrific wreck at preliminary on a questionably ready horse, and then be back with two at prelim as soon as possible.

I believe he's also entered OI at Stuart the next weekend.

AppJumpr08

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:34 AM

It does seem too soon after such an injury.

All I can say is that I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed that he and his horses get around safely...

SparklePlenty

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:34 AM

Just to throw this out as a thought..<flame suit on>

Maybe he's not planning on doing all 3 phases! Many times people just go and ride dressage and warm up for stadium and not compete. And maybe this is just his way of "getting back out there" and getting his legs back underneath of him.

I'd like to think that someone like Darren who preaches saftey in eventing, who is on the saftey commitee has a logical reason for competing so high so soon. but then again have any of us seen him ride lately? do any of us know what he is capable of? Or are we only going by what we have read on COTH (as well as making assumptions)... maybe it was like getting back on a bike for him and he really is fine to compete.

Side note: I had a tramatic head injury back in 96 and it took me less then 3 months to return to normal...

I wish him the best of luck..

magnolia73

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:34 AM

I don't know- he seems like one of those very fit, very mentally strong types. I assume he has been out jumping jumps and practicing the skills needed to negotiate two prelim courses. I assume he has the fitness as well. If he is doing prelim on his advanced horses- that is jumping back a few levels.

I doubt he is heading out to run two prelim courses after popping over a few cross rails at home. It sounds like from the article he is working with at least 3 good people.

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:36 AM

Wow, Jill. Wow, wow. I am just amazed you've posted this NOW. Amazed, amazed, amazed that it has finally (?) come out. Did you note this in any other discussion?

I'm not by any means questioning its veracity. But, geezum, that information would have been extremely significant in a LOT of discussions that have taken place.

I didn't think it was right at the time because his family showed me the video in their time of grief before they even knew if Darren was going to survive. My post was only in response to reading his article. Even if he has been cleared by his doctors, it concerns me that somewhere perhaps things are not completely connecting for him mentally.
Jill

Pixie Dust

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:36 AM

Well at least his doesn't have on his blog a post from his mom about how beautiful he is.

FlightCheck

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:37 AM

I watched Baron at Rocking Horse the weekend before.

I was one of those who mumbled to themselves when he was at RH the next week.

At Red Hills, I saw them at the top of the bank, looked left, heard the fall, looked back to the right, (I will not describe what I then saw).

I held Darren's hand and spoke to him until medics arrived.

I spoke to him at the Safety Summit.

I listened to his speech at the Safety Summit.

I don't believe that he wrote that article without help. I don't believe that he is mentally or physically recovered.

It doesn't matter what I think, because I am no one in a positition of authority.

bambam

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:43 AM

I wish him well and hope it works out- for both his sake and the sake of the sport
Seems like a frighteningly bad decision to me :no::no::no:

Beth Rasin

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:43 AM

Not commenting on Darren's ability to compete or decision to do so, however, after sending his article in, he did call us back a week or so later, having realized his error in the story regarding the striding. He told us then that he was wrong, it was two strides and his horse tried to do three, but the magazine had already gone to press and couldn't be changed. So he does realize it's not five strides. No one here had walked that prelim course and could know if he was wrong or not, so we had to take his word.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:47 AM

I hope Jill and Flightcheck will call Darren up, email him, or write him a letter--something--, and say these very things to him.

silver pine

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:49 AM

Ok so all thi stalk of saftey at teh lowe levels and red flags, watch lists ect. Do you mean to tell me the Darren should not be on a watch list?

Should there be a USEA or USEF physician who makes the fianl decision on ULR's following catastrophic injury?

Here is a perfect example of an ULR making a poor decision and the powers that be turning a blind eye- all those BN and N riders are sooo hazardous afterall!

People do make full recoveries after TBI and I hope Darren is one of those few lucky people but come on, 4 months.

If he was entered in an event on my property I whould feel compelled to decline for saftey reasons- what happens to eventing if he gets himself or his horse injured or killed. Hello USEA higher ups wake up!! Pay attention to what is going on at the upper levels, this is clearly a case where a rider needs to ride in order to make a living- but at what cost to the horses.
I have a very bad feeling about this.....

3dazey

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:52 AM

Jazzy Lady

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:56 AM

At least his prelim horses he has entered are Windfall and Gus (Better I do it). And his training horse is Fantastik. Who's pretty straight forward at training level.

I mean... nobody has had luck telling the man 'no' yet... he's only doing local (NY) stuff on his experienced horses right now. The green one's are not being ridden by him and he's not going beyond prelim for a little bit.

He's not entered at Stuart.

Ya it's scary, ya, he had a bad fall. Is it the best idea, who knows? Only those who know the situation very well can make the call. I get my information from one of his students who is a close friend and who's mother is a close friend of his. They worry for him of course, but he's a grown man.

I wish him lots of safety, strong judgement skills, and luck of course :)

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:59 AM

I will not comment on Darren's decision.

The data indicates that a person with TBI is almost 2 TIMES more likely to be killed in a subsequent head impact (even if it is only a mild impact) due to the accumulative effects of concussion (second impact syndrome).

According to the American Academy of Neurologists (with bold added by me),

"Grade 3 Concussion:

Definition: Loss of consciousness, either brief (seconds) or prolonged (minutes or longer).
Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity for 1 full week without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is brief, or 2 full weeks without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is prolong. If still unconscious, or if abnormal neurologic signs are present at the time of initial evaluation, the athlete should be transported by ambulance to the nearest hospital emergency department. An athlete who suffers a second Grade 3 concussion should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 1 month. Any athlete with an abnormality on computed tomography or magnetic resonance imaging brain scan consistent with brain swelling, contusion, or other intracranial pathology should be removed from sports activities for the season and discouraged from future return to participation in contact sports."

I agree that Darren should be on a watch list, for many YEARS if only for his own welfare.

Reed

RunForIt

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:06 AM

Nirvana, what you have bravely commented on here I have heard recently corroborated by ULRs who would certainly be in a position to know. According to what was said, all is not perfectly well...I hope wiser heads are in on this decision and everything is okay, but if not, PLEASE someone speak up who is in a position to stop another possible tragedy. The thought of it makes me physically ill.

There's also a "tragedy" in that someone very well known, someone who in another time has been one of our country's top event riders, now clearly making another poor judgement call that will impact our sport regardless if Darren gets around all 3 phases.

I personally want participants in our sport to be perceived as horsemen and women who make good decisions even when our own needs/aspirations go unmet. Darren's lack of judgement can be attributed to his severe head injury. The USEA cannot lay claim to the same reason - someone with the authority to do so needs to call Darren and tell him he is not going to be allowed to ride in recognized horse trials at this point - I would think USEA officials have a responsibility to us all to do no less. JMHO

silver pine

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:08 AM

"Any athlete with an abnormality on computed tomography or magnetic resonance imaging brain scan consistent with brain swelling, contusion, or other intracranial pathology should be removed from sports activities for the season and discouraged from future return to participation in contact sports."

Excellent post Reed. These guidelines are for the saftey of the individual and I suppose it'sup to the individual to do what they will with medical information.
What about the saftey of the horse who is subject to said individual's decisions? There needs to be a "vetting" of sorts...

FoxChaser

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:09 AM

"If he was entered in an event on my property I whould feel compelled to decline for saftey reasons- what happens to eventing if he gets himself or his horse injured or killed. Hello USEA higher ups wake up!! Pay attention to what is going on at the upper levels, this is clearly a case where a rider needs to ride in order to make a living- but at what cost to the horses."

Silver pine, FlightCheck, and everyone else who is concerned (myself included), maybe we should all send some e-mail Kevin Baumgardner's way stating the above. Maybe somebody should tap the USEA on the shoulder and suggest that this isn't such a good idea? Maybe someone on the current safety committee should talk to Darren and point this out to him. It's all well and good to armchair quarterback, but maybe someone should be brave enough to actually say something to someone who has some sway?

pwynnnorman

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:10 AM

I didn't think it was right at the time because his family showed me the video in their time of grief before they even knew if Darren was going to survive. My post was only in response to reading his article. Even if he has been cleared by his doctors, it concerns me that somewhere perhaps things are not completely connecting for him mentally.
Jill

I understand what you are implying about his mental state. Have you spoken with him about it? I mean, I really appreciate the information you imparted, but it IS a bit of a whopper, don't you think--given the discussions that have taken place? And I will admit, I do think it would have been better aired sooner--maybe not immediately after, but while all the ULR vs. LLR haranging was going on, for sure.

Again, what I mean is, that was a mistake I'm sure a LOT of, especially kinda ambitious, riders might make, wouldn't you say? IF that is what happened with Darren, what a useful example for younger riders. One of those "See, even a highly skilled rider can make a striding/line/track/approach mistake. That's why you need more mileage before moving up" kind of discussion openings. Y'know what I mean?

SuperOtto

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:10 AM

I agree that it's a bad decision - I know every head injury is different, but when I had my accident, it was MONTHS before I felt like I was really recovered. I was slower at processing any type of information for a long time, and my injury was much, much less severe than Darren's. I can't imagine him being able to make the split second decisions that need to be made on a cross country course.

Jazzy Lady

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:11 AM

So, I know I wished him the best, whatever, and safety, because I know that nobody (except those with the power) can actually stop him when he has his mind set on something...

Is this indicative of a leadership that won't look out for the riders? Does the USEA have say in this case? I mean, for training level I guess, but wouldn't it fall into the lap of the USEF for his prelim horses? Are they legally allowed to stop a "qualified" rider from entering? Do they even know that he's entering until the show is even over and the results are sent in to the USEF???

Ajierene

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:11 AM

As far as doctor's clearing him to ride - Doctor's don't clear people for anything. They say 'you really shouldn't do that' or 'that might be ok', they do not say 'ok, your good to go!' Not unless they are POSITIVE. Another question to ask would be what was the exact conversation. Was it:

Darren : you think I am good enough to ride?
Doctor: yes, you should be alright for some light riding, but take it easy.
Darren: OK, I am going to take three horses to a horse trial - I will take it easy by doing Prelim and Training instead of some higher levels.
Doctor: um....that's not what I meant.
Darren: See you in a month!

or

Darren: I want to start competing soon.
Doctor: Well, you can start riding and if that is ok, try a competition.
Darren: OK, off to enter three horses.
Doctor: um....not what I meant...

OR

Darren: I really need to get back to work - two horses at Prelim, one at Training be ok?
Doctor: Just take it one horse at a time, but it should be fine.

There are many scenarios and without knowing the exact conversation, you don't know how horse knowledgeable the doctor was or if they were both talking about the same thing. So I take 'cleared to compete' with a grain of salt

Personally, I think it is way to soon to be competing three horses even they all go Beginner Novice. He has not only been out of commission and loosing muscle strength due to lack of activity, he is also coming back from a near death injury. His body is not ready for all that work in one day.

This is why you get insurance. If you are going to be self-employed - have insurance that will help take care of the bills while you are out of commission. This is true if you own a hardware store or horse business. This way you are not rushing to get back to work to make up the money you lost.

I also agree with those that mentioned the trickle down effect. Where did Laine Ashker and Eleanor Brennan get their 'by any means necessary' type attitude about competing at the top levels? They got it from somewhere. Those around people like Darren and Laine should seriously consider getting the heavy chains out and physically preventing them from competing. It is not safe for them and is not right for the sport.

As far as Darren goes - if you are going to be the Lead of Safety - be safe, not hard headed. Always check with someone knowledgeable that has your best interest in mind. "Hey coach, think I am ready to compete three?" "NO" "OK, no competing three..."

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:23 AM

There is the definition of irony. The head of the safety committee competing after suffering TBI and not following ACCEPTED guidelines used by NASCAR, the NFL, NHL and others. That is NOT a very good example to set to other riders.

At a minimum, I suggest the USEA remove Darren from the Safety Committee, I am sending my email to say that.

Reed

flyingchange

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:33 AM

Didn't know the table was part of a related distance - that sort of explains things to me a bit. If he was supposed to get a set number of strides and he missed, that explains what happened. I had been thinking this was a simple table set up on its own.

So I guess he dropped off the bank and sort of hiccupped a bit before getting his line to the table? So what was envisioned as a nice, loopy rein, forward 2 stride to a table became sort of an unbalanced, not enough impulsion 3 stride and he missed?

Sort of off topic but I do think putting a table on a two-stride line after a drop is a bit much to be asking at Prelim or to be asking of a horse who has just moved up to prelim. Of course, I say this without seeing actual pix of what kind of drop we are talking about. So I could be totally off base.

Southern Pines Prelim this year had a pretty stiff drop, then bending five strides (or so) to a table. It rode really well, but there were lots of options for you that you could default to depending on how the drop rode for you. With only 2 strides between a drop and a max table, well, you and your horse aren't left with much to work with if things don't go as planned.

monstrpony

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:40 AM

I seems in many of the recent discussions, primarily the ones about Lainey, there was lots of talk about how ULRs would now feel it appropriate and mandatory for them to talk to a rider who they felt was riding unsafely and say "what you're doing is unsafe; it needs to change".

I wonder what all of those folks are doing now? How many have picked up the phone and called Darren and said "too much, too soon, buddy"?

Or is there a difference between Lainey, an up-and-comer, and Darren, a recognized denizen of the top?

Even after Beth's comment about Darren recognizing the error in his article, or maybe because of that error--it's a pretty significant one, after all--I am inclined to agree with those who are saying that Darren's judgement may not be what it needs to be. I just hope someone, someone says that to Darren before something really bad happens.

Invested1

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:47 AM

flyingchange

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:50 AM

I would think that the person that would speak up would be the owner of the horse being ridden. Two of the three horses he is entered to ride are not owned by him. Really and truely, the buck, in my opinion, at least with those two, stops with their individual owners.

goobs

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:51 AM

I just don't want anything to happen to him. I am (as we all are) concerned for his safety. I'd like him to be around a long time - he is after all one of the most prominent figures in eventing. BUT there is nothing we (we are strangers for the most part to him, not everyone on here but most) can say or do if this is what he wants. I wish he'd think a bit about those who are concerned about him and how maybe he is being a tiny bit selfish in doing too much too soon. His loved ones will suffer the most if anything happens to him. With all that said, GOOD LUCK DARREN!

I noticed there are only 4 entered in the Prelim division - is it a a soft and easy Prelim? Maybe that is why he is doing it - it's probably easier and safer for his horses to get around a level that has some height and it's probably soft enough for him to do it successfully. Sometimes these ULHs don't pay enough attention to the smaller jumps or don't go as well. Just my very uneducated guess - because there has to be some REASON or Logic behind his decision to do 2 prelims!

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:52 AM

I understand what you are implying about his mental state. Have you spoken with him about it? I mean, I really appreciate the information you imparted, but it IS a bit of a whopper, don't you think--given the discussions that have taken place? And I will admit, I do think it would have been better aired sooner--maybe not immediately after, but while all the ULR vs. LLR haranging was going on, for sure.

Again, what I mean is, that was a mistake I'm sure a LOT of, especially kinda ambitious, riders might make, wouldn't you say? IF that is what happened with Darren, what a useful example for younger riders. One of those "See, even a highly skilled rider can make a striding/line/track/approach mistake. That's why you need more mileage before moving up" kind of discussion openings. Y'know what I mean?

I agree that it would have been useful information but I was asked by his family at the time to please not share it with anyone. They are not horse people at all and they thought it was not a rotational fall because they didn't know what one was, so they asked me to look at it and tell them step by step what happened. When it looked like he was going to recover, I thought it was the right thing to let him see his video first before discussing it.It was a hard call for me to make for the exact reasons you pointed out. Quite frankly, it has taken a lot of time to get the image of it out of my head. I am glad to hear that Darren called the Chronicle and realized what he had written. Hopefully it was him who realized the mistake, not someone telling him. I have not spoken with Darren. Unfortunately, anyone who knows him knows that he wouldn't listen to me or anyone else. Not that it would make me or anyone else feel any better, but do you think he has to provide written permission from his doctors in order to compete or is his word good enough? Also, are there any legalities in not letting someone compete who is "cleared" by their doctors? I don't know the answers to these questions and I am not saying it should matter.

Jill

LexInVA

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:53 AM

It's nuckin futs. The guy was in a wheelchair not too long ago not to mention it hasn't even been five months since his accident! If something happens this time, it's gonna be a PR deathblow to the USEF not to mention fodder for the folk in other disciplines who want to destroy the sport.

roki143

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:00 AM

Milocalwinnings

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:03 AM

If he truely was cleared to ride (which I agree with whoever said doctors usually don't fully 'clear' anything;)) then I think one horse at a low level would be ok and a good place to start, but only after some good prep time on his part before hand.

I wish him good luck.... but I'm with you guys and think that three horses at (what I consider to be) a not so low level is a bad idea and a recipe for disaster.:no:

pwynnnorman

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:09 AM

Didn't know the table was part of a related distance - that sort of explains things to me a bit. If he was supposed to get a set number of strides and he missed, that explains what happened. I had been thinking this was a simple table set up on its own.

Wasn't a table. It was an interesting-looking, inky-black cannon, with cannon balls for a groundline--so, technically, it was just an upright. A bit airy, lots of contrast.

Jupes

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:15 AM

ARGH!!!!!!!!!

First of all, of course I wish Darren the best, and I hope everything goes well, for EVERYONE'S sake.

With that being said,
Have we not had many, many, many discussions about RIDER RESPONSIBILITY in the wake of Eventing's serious safety issues?!?!?! Is this not EXACTLY an instance where it should apply?! Aren't we ALL charged with assuming greater responsibility, not just the lower lever riders, or the extreme cases?

This is not only about Darren's safety, but it is absolutely about his horses' safety, and the well-being of the sport. This kind of thing has the potential to contribute to the eventual downfall of Eventing...for everyone. I wish this weren't the case, but right now, I don't think riders--especially high-profile riders--should make decisions based on their goals alone. Our sport depends on it right now. Please note, this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but to me this seems arrogant and selfish!

In the very same issue as Darren's article, David O'Connor talks about whether or not he would have a serious conversation with another URL about possible dangerous riding.

There has been a lot of talk; let's see if there is any action.

RunForIt

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:16 AM

...what I was thinking.

originally posted by nirvana002:
I am glad to hear that Darren called the Chronicle and realized what he had written. Hopefully it was him who realized the mistake, not someone telling him.

I do hope that other riders, - ULRs and LLRs - who are Darren's friends do speak with him, try to reason with him about competing this early.

On the other hand, ultimately, its not their responsibility. That belongs to USEF and USEA.

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:21 AM

It's not so much whether he is "right" enough to ride competently. He could probably have ridden ever-so-many circles around me a month ago, with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.

What scares me is what might happen if he takes another fall. The brain can only tolerate so much, and re-injury in the months after a TBI is potentially devastating. He got lucky once, I hope he doesn't need to fall back on that again. :(

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:26 AM

ETA, this is making me really kind of freak out, the more I think of it. I just read the article this morning and the more I think about it, the more I think he is just being totally irrational. I don't know him at all, apparently his is a "larger than life" personality so that might be why the tone of the article is sort of "in your face", but what if it is yet another sign that the guy is just NQR?

HELP. USEA. HELP. DANGER. STOP THIS, PLEASE. I'm tempted to send an email or a letter. I very, very rarely do so but this has all my "Danger, Will Robinson" gut-check bells ringing loudly. Who do you think I should write to?

CookiePony

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:28 AM

I personally want participants in our sport to be perceived as horsemen and women who make good decisions even when our own needs/aspirations go unmet. Darren's lack of judgement can be attributed to his severe head injury. The USEA cannot lay claim to the same reason - someone with the authority to do so needs to call Darren and tell him he is not going to be allowed to ride in recognized horse trials at this point - I would think USEA officials have a responsibility to us all to do no less. JMHO

MHO as well.

flutie/ pegasusmom/ gooddirt/ janet-- do organizers have the discretion to refuse entries?

Jupes

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:39 AM

Or why not just ride "HC" at Novice or Training, the first time back? Get the competition feel again, and prove to everyone you're OK? No disgrace in that...

Ajierene

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:39 AM

Ok, so I don't know how to say what I want without being offensive to anyone, but here it goes...

But how many of us have written checks or offered our time to the upper level riders who have had accidents recently? We do it because that is what we do - we are eventers, and we band together in times of need (in what other sport would you tell your competitors to watch out for a slick spot (or something) on course?).

But...

Would we be less likely to rally around someone on their second mistake or accident - especially when it seems quite clear that many disagree with his decision?

Not saying that all the financial support and other help completely covered all his expenses and time, but I'm sure it made a dent. Say he takes a stupid tumble in the warm-up when a horse trips on landing, re-injuring something serious -- would you be as quick to sign the check or offer your sympathies?

The Red Cross has a policy - if you are in a flood for the first time, they will help you rebuild. If you are in a flood the second time, they will help you move. If you haven't figured it out by a third time....the Red Cross has better ways to spend their money than on someone who can't figure out to move out of a flood zone/get flood insurance. (This is defined in a time frame - like floods are less than a year apart or something - don't remember the exact timing).

Something similar could be inacted for eventing accidents. The first time, donations, benefits, etc. The second time, benefits and help to move into a more coaching role or management role. Or only if they spend the rest of the season not showing and move up slowly. The third time - sorry about your luck if you haven't figured it out by now, it is not worth our money.

SillyHorse

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:40 AM

Like he said in his article, "no one tells me what to do."
Gee, that's mature. :rolleyes:
Too bad his horses don't have the same privilege. Too bad, indeed. :(

asterix

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:40 AM

Hmm. We are mostly just concerned bystanders here, in the sense that _most_ of us have no real knowledge of his health status, and, of course, no real right to know.
But. He is a public figure in our sport. He is head of the safety committee. The sport is having a crisis right now that involves, among other incidents, the accident he suffered.

He has chosen to take on both the visibility and the specific role in the safety discussions that he now has.

I think he has a responsibility, under those circumstances, to take his own desires, and his own assessment of his readiness, and tack on more time, and more caution, than he thinks he needs.

I don't see how running one horse instead of three would have been a bad idea.

This makes me sad and frightened. Do we have the right to say something to USEA about it? I am not sure.

Sudi's Girl

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:40 AM

Anyone also notice he's riding two 5 year old YEH's as well??

You'd think with the fact that he's coming back from a rotational fall, and that that particular issue has been discussed recently, someone would be able to speak with him about waiting to compete. It's just so risky.

*sigh*

Bensmom

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:52 AM

Many have said here that we should be glad that Darren is doing well enough to compete again and that he is a grown up and can do as he likes.

However, not only do his horses not get to make that choice as canterlope pointed out, we were all asked to step in and help pay the medical bills that he incurred as a result of his accident.

And, people did step in -- we had a fundraiser here in Tallahassee and there are armbands and posters out there that are visible reminders that people contributed.

So, it does matter whether the eventing public as a whole thinks it is a good idea for him to return to competition. We helped to pay the bills that helped him recover, though I am sure the fundraising was only a small part of what his recovery actually cost, and I am certain that were he to be injured again, he would again need assistance, considering that many health insurance policies have a benefit amount that can be maxed out for a lifetime amount.

With a recent severe TBI, even a simple fall off of a green horse, where one lands hard on one's tailbone can jar the brain enough to cause a not-quite-healed area to suffer a serious injury.

Brains should be gently cared for, they are not replaceable.

And, to answer the question asked about refusing an entry -- I think that issue is currently up in the air. I know of a situation from many years ago where an organizer refused an entry for a different reason, though a valid one, and they were fined by USEF.

Any organizers with a definite answer?

Precious Lendon

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:04 PM

maxxtrot

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:13 PM

i am with the most part of the group that says, this is a very bad idea. i don't see how in anyway shape or form, he can be ready to show that many horses at a show. i have talked to many ULR'S and i guess what ,they have said he is just not mentally right. i also don't think this sets a good example to the up and coming eventers. this accident was just 4 months ago. no way he is ready to be going prelim on 2, training on 1, and two 5 yr.olds in the YEH series. i hope and pray for the future of this sport, and for darren's safety, that all goes well. i too think he should be removed from the safety committy. he needs to practice what he preaches.

silver2

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:15 PM

Who would determine that "return to play" policy? If doctors say a person can ride, then where is the argument that one cannot? Your idea of return to play and mine might be years apart. I might want to return in six months while someone else says a year, others say 18 months, etc.
The governing body of the sport should! MOST sports have mandatory stand downs for this kind of injury: my ice hockey league follows what is a pretty standard rule in that sport: two concussions below Grade III or one above and you are out for the season. Mountain biking has something similar and most high school sports do too.

The USEA can have all the meetings on frangible pins it wants but if they are allowing someone who just got out of a major coma to compete, they clearly aren't real serious about preventing catastrophic injuries at competition.

I think this also illustrates why depending on personal responsibility to save the sport aint' gonna cut it.

sfir

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:15 PM

Darren's article has several inaccuracies in it that really should be clarified and must give some question to how clear his thinking truly is at this point. While I am glad he realized his error in the striding of that combination it does seem strange to me that he watched the tape over and over again and the fact that his horse tried to put a 3 in a 2 was not ingrained in his mind. Also, it appears to me that he used the statement that no one attempted the obstacle before or after him as justification that it was not a green horse or rider error that caused the fall but a fluke that could be attributed to the fence design. I was the rider immediately preceeding Darren and my horse did in fact do the straight route there easily in the 2. While I was indeed concerned about the fence design of that particular obstacle due to the fact that it would be so unforgiving if things just went a little wrong, I have to wonder why Darren would not have made very sure the accuracy of that statement before he made it.
Having some experience with dealing with a person with a head injury I can honestly say that the injured person very likely has no ability to objectively gauge what they are or are not capable of doing for a long time and may be very defiant in defending their 'logic'. I hope this is not the case with Darren but if it is I hope there is some way he will be pushed to take it slow. I have to have some concerns that he may not be able at this point to accurately remember striding, angles etc after walking a course if he cannot remember or judge it correctly from repeatedly watching it on video tape. Hopefully I am wrong and it was just a lot of typos on his part.
Ruthie

jn4jenny

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:25 PM

So for me, here's the real question: If the USEA does not respond to this situation--and we've seen that sometimes the wheels of bureaucracy move too slowly for such a thing--is there anyone at the EVENT LEVEL who can permit/forbid someone to ride when the doctors have already permitted it?

I see this situation as extending way beyond Darren. If you as a spectator/fellow competitor have reason to believe that a competitor is not in a position to ride safely, and you take that to the Rider's Delegate, can someone actually forbid the competitor from riding? And can an event refuse your entry based on the event organizer's/property owner's personal feeling that you should not ride?

Personally, I hope someone stops Darren from riding, but others could easily argue that this is a slippery slope--that if we start allowing event-level folks to forbid (or at least make it very difficult) for people to ride in an event, the political implications are huge. It could get messy. But we also see in Darren's entry exactly the sort of situation where it could save the life of a horse, and potentially of a rider. Tough call for sure.

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:26 PM

snoopy

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:28 PM

This decision is especially disturbing as Darren is/was on the safety committee. This sends out the wrong message, in a broad stroke. I am entirely on board with Ruthie and Jill on this. We can talk of rider responsibility, yes, but when it would appear that the rider in question is still having some "diffculties", it is time for intervention. I am ill at ease by this.

snoopy

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:29 PM

Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.

A "true" friend is someone who tells you somethings you do not always want to hear. You did the right thing Jill.

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:30 PM

MHO as well.

flutie/ pegasusmom/ gooddirt/ janet-- do organizers have the discretion to refuse entries?

Only for "unsportsmanlike behavior at a recognized competition." Organizers are not protected in the least against incidents like this and fear being sued. I'm aware that Darren has "fulfilled" all that USEF legal asked of him - questions posed to a neurologist - so basically, everyone's hands are tied. It's a scary scary situation.

Flutie

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:31 PM

sfir

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:32 PM

although I also would bet you are crossed of the friend list. I would bet that list will be getting shorter for a while as the messengers get shot.
Hopefully he will not take it personally that so many people want him to approach his return slowly and safely but there is not much reasoning with a person with a head injury for a long time in most cases.....
Ruthie

goobs

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:33 PM

Jill - if you are crossed off of the friend list for voicing your concern for him - as a FRIEND - then gee was he really your friend to begin with? We are all just concerned about him. He may even bring home the blue who knows? If I had sustained the injuries he did - I would not even dare attempt what he is doing. To each his own. We just care. That's all.

luise

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:34 PM

Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.

Keep us updated.
Gees, I didn't mean to create a train wreck! But I did notice he was entered, with not one, but 3 horses at least, so that's why I posted it. Maybe for him doing prelim on 2 steady mounts is considered a "lower level course."

ravenclaw

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:37 PM

I hope someone at the event will be keeping a close eye on him. Not just in the competition phases, but in warm-ups, when doing course walks, etc. And I hope they don't allow him to compete if he seems to be impaired. Can't people be disqualified for dangerous riding? Maybe this could fit under that category.

I don't know how Darren is feeling, but it does seem like too much too soon and a pretty selfish decision. He needs to think about his horses and his family and the sport and how bad things would be if had another bad fall so soon after the one in Florida.

purplnurpl

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:38 PM

What scares me is what might happen if he takes another fall. The brain can only tolerate so much, and re-injury in the months after a TBI is potentially devastating. He got lucky once, I hope he doesn't need to fall back on that again. :(

A fall is not needed for further damage.
Even a rough drop off of a bank can cause the brain to bounce around.
Or a great jumper cracking your back and giving you wip lash.
Walk into a standard,
hit a tree branch,
WALK UNDER A GOOSE NECK AND NAIL YOUR HEAD!
(which happens all the time we all know).
He ought to be walking around daily life with his helmet on.

Even worse then seeing his name on entry forms is the fact that he is probably riding and schooling as we speak.

Schooling is often riskier then showing.

purplnurpl

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:41 PM

I hope someone at the event will be keeping a close eye on him. Not just in the competition phases, but in warm-ups, when doing course walks, etc. And I hope they don't allow him to compete if he seems to be impaired. Can't people be disqualified for dangerous riding? Surely, this could fit under that category.

I don't know how Darren is feeling, but it does seem like too much too soon and a pretty selfish decision. He needs to think about his horses and his family and the sport and how bad things would be if had another bad fall so soon after the one in Florida.

Have someone 'watch him' will do nothing.
How many times have you 'watched' someone hurt themselves? It happens before you can sweep in and save the day.

throwurheart

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:49 PM

When he first was injured I thought two things:

1. I really, really hope he switches to pure dressage. He's a beautiful dressage rider and would surely do exceptionally well. The TBI demands, in my non-expert opinion, a consideration of this route.

2. Not a chance in hell he would.

For the good of the sport, if not for the good of him, he needs to bench himself for awhile.

mbarrett

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:50 PM

Just some random thoughts. I am no means against Darren competing, but it does seem a little bit early for him to be doing so. I wish him the best, when it is time for him to compete.

I feel it's a huge conflict of interest for Darren to be the head of the safety committee and then compete so soon after his horrible accident. He must not be thinking clearly. If he cannot make reasonable decisions for himself and his safety, how can he make reasonable decisions in a safety committee meeting about other peoples safety? The powers that be need to remove him from that committee.

I agree with many who have already written about this, why after the USEA and USEF have preached rider responsibility so much lately, is Darren being allowed to compete so soon?

I think there needs to be a mandatory "time out" for people with serious head injuries. I am no means an expert, but if high schools, college sports teams, pro sports and other amateur sports organizations mandate athletes are made to sit out for a certain amount of time, why doesn't the USEF/USEA? That's absolutely crazy.

Good for you Jill, for speaking up. If Darren no longer considers you a friend, at least you have a clean conscience. You can look yourself in the mirror and say, "I tried." I hope other people/riders that Darren respect will say the same thing to him.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:50 PM

I just finished reading Darren's commentary in COTH.

The use of Darren's comment "no one tells me what to do" here is taken out of context of what he wrote. That comment was in reference to comments made after the accident that he was pressued to move Baron Verdi to prelim before the horse was ready.

From what I take away from his commentary, he's not a loose cannon. He has other horseman working with him on how to get back into competition---and specifically named Gina Miles and Robert Dover.

While I don't necessarily agree with his 'accidents will happen' attitude, he's appears to be aware of the risks he's taking and the burden those risks are on the people who support him.

For the most part, the Eventing Forum on COTH has always been a nice place to visit for the amusing, thoughtful, intelligent, rational, non-snarky members...but lately..this forum has turned into a hysterical, howling, hateful bunch.

Time. To. Take. A. Deep. Breath. Folks.

mademoiselle

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:51 PM

I agree with everybody else.
I took a bad tumble on one of my greenies beginning of June in Indiana (I got a concussion and broke C7). It happened at novice level with a young horse who has been successful at higher level. For a reason that nobody can understand, he just didn't pick up his feet over the #1 of the stadium course.

Well, I'm back riding, but I decided to not event till August. Which means that I'm missing 2 events that are less than 20 minutes away from home (and trust me with the price of the gas, I would have loved to enter those) and that my season is shot. I will not be able to qualify my horses in time for the AEC.

The owners of the horses I have in training have been very understanding and none of them took any of the horses away from me.

I have to ride because I need to make money, but I decided that for now, I will try to take as much risk as I can out of my life.

My accident was not nearly as bad as Darren (I was out of the hospital within 48 hours) and my CT scan didn't show anything, but for 10 hours I lost my short term memory and I was just not right. I don't remember any of what happened that day ... It was still scary enough for me to back off and take it easy for a little while. 2009 show season will come quickly enough !!!
Good for the people who are speaking up

bambam

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:55 PM

Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.
I applaud you Jill- as Snoopy said, a real friend does not always tell you what you want to hear but instead tells you what you need to hear.
One of the things discussed at the safety summit was that people, particularly ULRs whose opinion will be taken more seriously, should speak up when they see someone being dangerous instead of averting their eyes and thinking "everybody saw that coming" when an accident happens. While this was in a slightly different context, the principle is the same and I think the culture change of speaking up is a necessary one to the sport
Good on you Jill- tough to do I am sure.

MaryKay

Jul. 2, 2008, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by nirvana002
Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.

It may not "change" anything, but in your heart you know you did what you could. Are there other ULR's that are close to him that could be contacted and asked to do the same? Have you talked to him since the accident and if so, does he seem okay? It seems odd that an article that he wrote could be so "inaccurate" on details if he were "fully" functioning.

I don't know Darren personally, but I did as so many others did, make contributions (more than one) to his fund at the equistrian aid foundation for his recovery and so I do have an "invested" interest in knowing that he has "fully" recovered before attempting eventing at any level and four months for the seriousness of his injury seems awfully soon.

And as someone else said-what about the owners of the horses he is riding? What are they thinking????

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:02 PM

Who is hysterical, who is howling, who is being hateful? People are afraid for the guy's life. And yes, for the sport, too. Like it or not, he's a public figure who represents the sport, especially so since he's the figure at the front of the SAFETY COMMITTEE. What happens to his future and the future of eventing if he takes another crack on the head does NOT bear thinking about.

If that's hateful, then I'm guilty of hating--I do--I *hate* this situation.

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:02 PM

I will use F2F's post to point out some problems with Darren's "logic."

Working with other horsemen is good, however, they are not able to judge the mental capacity of Darren. There is a specific battery of tests applied over DAYS that are used to determine that. These are used in other sports before a person is cleared by the governing body to return. This is done because the participant, their trainer, or even their family has NO capacity to judge what is really happening.

While Darren is willing to take the risks, he is serving as poor example to every subsequent rider by also claiming to part of the safety effort (Gina Miles is aiding in this). Right now would be the PERFECT time for Darren to LEAD by EXAMPLE, do the tests, and push for them to be instituted in to USEF/USEA protocol for severly injured riders. WOW, talk about TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for your actions and making a POSITIVE impact on the sport!!!!!!!

As for taking a deep breath, almost every head injury guideline indicates that Darren is making a bad choice. This isn't about Darren's abilities, it is about his LIFE. Yes, he can committ suicide on his own time (as is his choice) but not via horseback (see second impact syndrome and increased risk of death after a concussion) during a competition.

Reed

P.S. Good on ya, Jill! That is what needs to happen to change the culture of the sport as pwynn has so often called us to do.

hessy35

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:05 PM

Escaping with his life the first time around was a blessing. If he chooses to get right back on then that is his choice.... but it must be worrying his loved ones half to death. IMO, he should takes things just a bit slower and think of others.

DLee

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:06 PM

But in all reality is the USEA going to have to 'clear' every rider for competition returning from an injury? I just don't see how it can happen. It's a personal choice, no matter if we agree with it or not.

bambam

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:06 PM

Fence2Fence- I may have forgotten it already, but I don't remember any post being snarky- particularly since many of the concerns about his competing were prefaced with good wishes before they expressed doubt that this was a wise decision.
Even if there were not reports of him still not being 100% (and it appears there are), it is a bad decision IMO for any person who had a grade 3 concussion, was in a coma for 1-2 weeks and took a significant period of time to become independently mobile, starting to compete (on 5 horses no less in one weekend) within 4-5 months of the accident in a sport that requires focus and a constant stream of good judgment calls and where the failure to focus and make good decisions poses the real risk of severe injury. Secondary conucussion injury (or whatever the correct term is) is no joke- it does not take much of a jostle sometimes to trigger it.

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:09 PM

hamsterpoop

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:18 PM

Man; I saw Darren at the safety summit and I agree he did not appear to be "all better". His article in COTH was cogent and logical, sure, but the subtle and lasting effects of closed head injuries of this magnitude are going to be self evident very quickly. Maybe he is the lucky one who will do just great..

RugBug

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:19 PM

While Darren is willing to take the risks, he is serving as poor example to every subsequent rider by also claiming to part of the safety effort (Gina Miles is aiding in this). Right now would be the PERFECT time for Darren to LEAD by EXAMPLE, do the tests, and push for them to be instituted in to USEF/USEA protocol for severly injured riders. WOW, talk about TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for your actions and making a POSITIVE impact on the sport!!!!!!!

As for taking a deep breath, almost every head injury guideline indicates that Darren is making a bad choice. This isn't about Darren's abilities, it is about his LIFE. Yes, he can committ suicide on his own time (as is his choice) but not via horseback (see second impact syndrome and increased risk of death after a concussion) during a competition.

Absolutely.

For Darren to think it's okay to compete 4 months after a severe brain injury is just dumbfounding.

This may have been said or asked, but is there any kind of guideline to when a head injury like Darren's is actually healed?

Not an expert, but a barnmate was told to avoid doing anything that could cause a fall and result in another TBI for at least a year (forever...if possible). She was only unconscious for less than 24 hours. Injury was in November...she JUST got on a horse again about 2 weeks ago...and he's a super steady eddy.

YRAP Mom

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:20 PM

It was a 2...Darrens horse jumped off the bank, slightly right, Darren being the great jockey..pulled him back left..and in the horse's inexperience, he tried to put in 3 strides(which couldn't be done) That is all there was to it.

This was a pre-injury split second decision. I pray that there will be no need for split second decisions on these first rides post-injury. Praying a lot!

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:27 PM

This may have been said or asked, but is there any kind of guideline to when a head injury like Darren's is actually healed?

There are no hard and fast rules but I refer you to the Amercian Academy of Neurology for determing when to return to play. Darren was a definitel Grade 3 concussion.

"Summary of Recommendations of Management of Concussion in Sports

A concussion is defined a head-trauma-induced alteration in mental status that may or may not involve loss of consciousness. Concussions are graded in three categories. Definitions and treatment recommendations for each category are presented below.

Grade 1 Concussion

Definition: Transient Confusion, no loss of consciousness, and a duration of mental status abnormalities of less than 15 minutes.
Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity, examined immediately and at 5 minute intervals, and allowed to return that day to the sports activity only if post concussive symptoms resolve within 15 minutes. Any athlete who incurs a second Grade 1 concussion on the same day should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 1 week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grade 2 Concussion:

Definition: Transient confusion, no loss of consciousness, and a furation of mental status abnormalities of more than 15 minutes.

Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity, examined immediately and frequently to assess the evolution of symptoms, with more extensive diagnostic evaluation if the symptoms worsen or persist for more than 1 week. The should return to sports activity only after asymptomatic for 1full week. Any athlete who incurs a Grade 2 concussion subsequent to a Grade 1 concussion on the same day should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 2 weeks.

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Grade 3 Concussion:

Definition: Loss of consciousness, either brief (seconds) or prolonged (minutes or longer).
Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity for 1 full week without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is brief, or 2 full weeks without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is prolong. If still unconscious, or if abnormal neurologic signs are present at the time of initial evaluation, the athlete should be transported by ambulance to the nearest hospital emergency department. An athlete who suffers a second Grade 3 concussion should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 1 month. Any athlete with an abnormality on computed tomography or magnetic resonance imaging brain scan consistent with brain swelling, contusion, or other intracranial pathology should be removed from sports activities for the season and discouraged from future return to participation in contact sports.

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Features of Concussion Frequently Observed:

1. Vacant stare (befuddled facial expression)
2. Delayed verbal and motor responses (slow to answer questions or follow instructions)
3. Confusion and inability to focus attention (easily distracted and unable to follow through with normal activities)
4. Disorientation (walling in the wrong direction; unaware of time, date and place)
5. Slurred or incoherent speech (making disjointed or incomprehensible statements)
6. Gross observable incoordination (stumbling, inability to walk tandem/straight line)
7. Emotions out of proportion to circumstances (distraught, crying for no apparent reason)
8. Memory deficits (exhibited by the athlete repeatedly asking the same question that has already been answered, or inability to memorize and recall 3 of 3 words, or 3 of 3 objects in 5 minutes)
9. Any period of loss of consciousness (paralytic coma, unresponsiveness to arousal)

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Additional Resources:

Roberts,William, MD "Who Plays? Who Sits?", The Physician in Sports Medicine, 6/92, Vol 20, No. 6, pp. 66-72.
Kelly, James P. "Concussion," Current Therapy in Sports Medicine. Mosby - Year Book, Inc. 1995, pp 21 - 24.
Saunders, R. and Harbaugh, R., "The Second Impact in Catastrophic Contact-Sports Head Trauma," Journal of American Medical Association, 6/27/84, Vol 252. No. 4, pp 538-539 "

Reed

nirvana002

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:40 PM

There are no hard and fast rules but I refer you to the Amercian Academy of Neurology for determing when to return to play. Darren was a definitel Grade 3 concussion.

"Summary of Recommendations of Management of Concussion in Sports

A concussion is defined a head-trauma-induced alteration in mental status that may or may not involve loss of consciousness. Concussions are graded in three categories. Definitions and treatment recommendations for each category are presented below.

Grade 1 Concussion

Definition: Transient Confusion, no loss of consciousness, and a duration of mental status abnormalities of less than 15 minutes.
Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity, examined immediately and at 5 minute intervals, and allowed to return that day to the sports activity only if post concussive symptoms resolve within 15 minutes. Any athlete who incurs a second Grade 1 concussion on the same day should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 1 week.

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Grade 2 Concussion:

Definition: Transient confusion, no loss of consciousness, and a furation of mental status abnormalities of more than 15 minutes.

Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity, examined immediately and frequently to assess the evolution of symptoms, with more extensive diagnostic evaluation if the symptoms worsen or persist for more than 1 week. The should return to sports activity only after asymptomatic for 1full week. Any athlete who incurs a Grade 2 concussion subsequent to a Grade 1 concussion on the same day should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 2 weeks.

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Grade 3 Concussion:

Definition: Loss of consciousness, either brief (seconds) or prolonged (minutes or longer).
Management: The athlete should be removed from sports activity for 1 full week without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is brief, or 2 full weeks without symptoms if the loss of consciousness is prolong. If still unconscious, or if abnormal neurologic signs are present at the time of initial evaluation, the athlete should be transported by ambulance to the nearest hospital emergency department. An athlete who suffers a second Grade 3 concussion should be removed from sports activity until asymptomatic for 1 month. Any athlete with an abnormality on computed tomography or magnetic resonance imaging brain scan consistent with brain swelling, contusion, or other intracranial pathology should be removed from sports activities for the season and discouraged from future return to participation in contact sports.

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Features of Concussion Frequently Observed:

1. Vacant stare (befuddled facial expression)
2. Delayed verbal and motor responses (slow to answer questions or follow instructions)
3. Confusion and inability to focus attention (easily distracted and unable to follow through with normal activities)
4. Disorientation (walling in the wrong direction; unaware of time, date and place)
5. Slurred or incoherent speech (making disjointed or incomprehensible statements)
6. Gross observable incoordination (stumbling, inability to walk tandem/straight line)
7. Emotions out of proportion to circumstances (distraught, crying for no apparent reason)
8. Memory deficits (exhibited by the athlete repeatedly asking the same question that has already been answered, or inability to memorize and recall 3 of 3 words, or 3 of 3 objects in 5 minutes)
9. Any period of loss of consciousness (paralytic coma, unresponsiveness to arousal)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Resources:

Roberts,William, MD "Who Plays? Who Sits?", The Physician in Sports Medicine, 6/92, Vol 20, No. 6, pp. 66-72.
Kelly, James P. "Concussion," Current Therapy in Sports Medicine. Mosby - Year Book, Inc. 1995, pp 21 - 24.
Saunders, R. and Harbaugh, R., "The Second Impact in Catastrophic Contact-Sports Head Trauma," Journal of American Medical Association, 6/27/84, Vol 252. No. 4, pp 538-539 "

Reed

Thanks.

europa

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:41 PM

I am not a Dr....nor do I play one on TV but hello Mary this is over the top!

And............Reed you are just plain scary with your data. That makes me want to put on my tipperary and take up Dressage on a mini full time for safety sake.

gjump

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:56 PM

I'm the fourth competitor in the Prelim division with Darren.

I'm completely putting myself out on a limb here but if I see anything unusal or unsafe with Darren's riding or decision making I will make a stand of it to the organizers/officials.

If this does happen... what would be the best way to handle a situation like this?

Mary in Area 1

Jul. 2, 2008, 01:58 PM

My husband just had a fall in which he lost consciousness for a few minutes, exhibited confusion for a few hours. He had 3 broken ribs, a partially collapsed lung and a small brain bleed. He was sent by helicopter to the nearest trauma unit.

The NEXT day, only 24 HOURS after his fall, he was sent home but his team of doctors, including the neurologist, with NO restrictions officially listed. He was even listed, IN WRITING ON HIS DISCHARGE PAPERS, that is was cleared to drive! He was on heavy doses of Oxycodone, and still is, 3 weeks later. The discharge papers don't even say no driving on the Oxycodone!

My husband asked them when he could start riding and they said "a couple of weeks, when your ribs feel better."

Needless to say, I am the enemy. I'v hidden the car keys and withdrawn him from competitions.

Too bad Darren doesn't have a mean wife. This is EXACTLY one type of "Dangerous Riding" we need to eliminate from our sport!

Arcadien

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:04 PM

Mary, I'd change that to tough-loving caring wife! Kudo's to you. And maybe a good example of what's needed here - friends looking out for each other.

(PS thank for writing him Jill, and sharing your "been there" thoughts & knowledge with us!)

Arcadien,
nervously waiting to see if Darren responds to all the well meant advice pouring on him now...

Invested1

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:05 PM

While I was indeed concerned about the fence design of that particular obstacle due to the fact that it would be so unforgiving if things just went a little wrong,

Do you have a picture (or a link to a picture) of the jump? Would be interesting to see what you guys are talking about.
Thanks!

poltroon

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:09 PM

Several years ago, I had a very very mild concussion - so mild that we didn't realize until the day after. I did not go to the hospital for it.

Even 4 months out, I was still doing things like trying to adjust the volume on the TV before I turned it on. Little things that no one noticed but me. I also tired more easily and found it tiring to maintain the intense focus needed to make a safe left turn when driving in traffic. It was nearly a year before all of that went away.

Add me to the list of people who are concerned not only for Darren, but for our sport. He is not the only person who will lose if there is another accident.

Thank you to everyone who knows him who has spoken to him about it.

J Swan

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:10 PM

Is it possible that this man has had those tests and that is why he stated that two neurologists have cleared him to ride?

None of us knows the details of this mans medical records, nor does he have to allow the public to see and comment upon them.

All of us are speculating and drawing conclusions based on very little information.

He did have a horrible accident, but it doesn't mean he can never return to competition, or take up dressage, or sit out for one year as some have suggested. Folks have worse injuries in car accidents and yet are behind the wheel soon after discharge. And yet those people could easily reinjure themselves behind the wheel or using public transportation.

I'm not on either "side" -I'm just asking if it's possible that his team of physicians, who have Darren's complete medical history, may have concluded that he can return to work. There may be caveats or recommendations we are not aware of - but I don't know that this man needs to disclose private information to the general public.

There is a specific battery of tests applied over DAYS that are used to determine that. These are used in other sports before a person is cleared by the governing body to return. This is done because the participant, their trainer, or even their family has NO capacity to judge what is really happening.

three_dayer

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:17 PM

one of my freinds little sister had something similar happen to her...got dumped from a horse and was in a medical induced coma for 2 weeks with a TBI..she started riding again, and there was something wrong there...if the horse propped at a jump she would fall forward and almost fall off horse would go left, she would go right, it was like the wires were crossed..(before the injury she was a very good rider).yes she passed all the tests saying that she was 100%and she could go back to her normal life, but she couldn't ride, and finally she had to quit riding, but shes ok doing other sports..yes her neurologist rides, used to event, and she thought that she would be ok, but its just how your body reacts, the brain is an unknown, and you will never know what goes on in there...hope that darren will be ok, and not do anything stupid.

citydog

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:21 PM

My husband asked them when he could start riding and they said "a couple of weeks, when your ribs feel better."

Again, I don't think most doctors have any clue that there can be more to riding than an hour ambling along on a rented trail horse at a walk.

bambam

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:26 PM

Invested1

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:32 PM

I wish Darren a very SAFE and successful event!

That said, if ANYTHING goes wrong, it pains me think of the backlash this sport will take.
"Why was he allowed to compete?" "Why didn't anybody stop him?"

Bensmom

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:32 PM

Again, I don't think most doctors have any clue that there can be more to riding than an hour ambling along on a rented trail horse at a walk.

I have found this to be absolutely true, and furthermore, that for people trained in medicine, emergency room docs don't seem all that hipped on the wealth of knowledge available about TBIs.

I've known people checked and sent home, often as Mary stated without info as to what to watch for, or any warnings about the fact that a bleed can be subtle and develop into a big problem some hours or days later.

I know way more about TBIs than I wish I did, mostly from a couple of family members experiences. I have found that in order to get good info from doctors you have to do some background reading and have a good set of questions ready.

The info Reed posted is excellent. I had a Gr. 3 concussion years ago, as did my trainer and the emergency room folks sent both of us home with a "gee, no concussion, here's some pain meds" instruction.

Question of the day -- why would you give someone who might have a TBI heavy doses of oxycodone? I realize that it is a pain med that isn't a blood thinner, but still, one that messes up your mental state seems a bad idea when you are still trying to determine just how ok your mental state is.

Jill -- good for you for speaking up and sending off that email, and Ruthie has more experience than most of us in dealing with a brain injury and what effects it can have, even a year later. Thank you guys for weighing in.

As I said earlier, yes, he's an adult and can make a choice, but this really points out an area in which we need to make a change in the sport, and quickly.

If I were an organizer, I would be TERRIFIED that he'd enter something at my event and the lawyer in me would be torn between the liability of letting him compete and the possibility of being disciplined for refusing his entry.

USEA/USEF needs to develop return to competition guidelines similar to the return to play guidelines and implement them pronto -- there is a good reason for an emergency rule!

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:32 PM

Judgement and decision-making are among the hardest things to measure, and some of the last things to come back after any sort of brain injury.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:39 PM

Darren's piece in COTH stated that he was cleared by two neurologists and the phsyiological tests showed he has made a full recovery. He was also very honest about the risks he was taking, and has other riders involved in making a comeback.

After reading four or so pages of the comments here...and then logging into COTH and reading what Darren had to say for himself, the comments here--while full of concern for him and this sport--do seem a touch hysterical.

That doesn't make me less concerned then anyone here. Yes, I was at the Safety Summit, and agree that you could tell he'd been through the ringer, and yes, I'd like to see him take more time to coddle his brain.

I absolutely agree that Jill and Flightcheck (because of her involvement at Redhills) should speak up. And good for you Jill, that you did that. And good for the riders who will be at the horse trial looking out for him.

But a flood of emails coming from COTH--concerned citizens as we may be--strike me as touch hysterical.

We all have an obligation to look out for each other, but we do need to realize when it is our turn to speak up and then willingly embrace it.

blackwly

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:41 PM

This may have been said or asked, but is there any kind of guideline to when a head injury like Darren's is actually healed?

Just a little more info about what this entails...

There is a TON of data out there looking at athletes who have concussions. We know a lot about the natural history of the injury, the recovery, and their future prognosis. There is NOT a lot of data published on the functional outcomes of athletes like Darren because the vast majority of patients who have suffered a brain injury like his never see the playing field again. We can only extrapolate from what we know of patients with less severe brain injuries and imagine that Darren's risk of reinjury is high.

When we are evaluating patients with brain injuries to make comments on their ability to return to activities such as driving, working in risky environments, etc we (as neurosurgeons) refer them for neuropsychiatric testing. This is a series of written tests, not unlike the IQ test from hell, which measure cognition, visual and spatial processing, short and long term memory, etc. I am aware of at least a few instances where the results of these tests have been used to clear riders to return to FEI competition. This type of testing is highly sensitive and will often pick up serious errors in cognitive processing even in patients who appear to the casual examiner to be completely normal.

I have no idea if Darren has been tested in such a way, but it would seem to me that the USEA could mandate this sort of testing on any rider who has, for example, been hospitalized for more than 48 hours for a head injury. The testing is rigorous and probably fairly expensive, but I think it would be a straightforward and objective way to differentiate those who were and were not ready to return.

fargonefarm

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:54 PM

Here's my experience, for what it's worth:
Two years ago I had a young horse flip over backwards on me during a Dressage test at a Dressage schooling show for no apparent reason (though I'm fairly certain horsey had a screw loose in any case - he went bye-bye after the accident.) I had five broken ribs and a partially collapsed lung and was in ICU for three days. The CAT scan (or whatever that thingy was - I was unconscious) showed that I had no signs of brain injury or concussion, despite unconsciousness. Even so I still have very little memory of that day and my balance was a bit wonky for a couple of weeks. My doctors told me no riding for a COUPLE OF MONTHS - any further injury to my ribs would damage my lung. Now - I was back on a horse in a couple weeks only because I'm a full-time trainer and I have to ride for a living. But still - I was only on my steady-eddy and I was extremely cautious. I didn't jump for two-three months and I didn't event again until the following season. And I'm not usually one to wade in the "extra careful" waters.
While I understand that Darren has to make a living - this is just nutty. He can still TEACH! That's what I did. And actually teaching took a lot out of me after my accident.
Darren is and will be a danger to his horses, himself, and possibly his fellow competitors if he competes this soon. Period. Speaking as someone who has had a lessor, but still serious accident. Absolutely ridiculous.

bambam

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:57 PM

Tazzie

Jul. 2, 2008, 02:59 PM

I usually stay away from posting an opinion b/c who am I to second guess somebody else's decision? However, in saying that, my biggest concern (beyond my concern for his safety) is that as the head of the Safety Committee he also needs to lead by example.

I am not the first one to post this concern, but I still wanted to add my opinion to mix.

I wish the best for Darren though my gut feeling is that he should have chosen a different lessor path.

silver2

Jul. 2, 2008, 03:22 PM

the comments here--while full of concern for him and this sport--do seem a touch hysterical.
Not hysterical, realistic.

The sport has an image problem, it is not going to help if the head of the safety committee competes a couple months after a TBI, coma and month long hospital stay and no one stops him. Even if nothing happens this is a colossally stupid PR move: it makes it clear the sport is not serious about safety.

silver pine

Jul. 2, 2008, 03:33 PM

F2F,
I hate to argue but I really dont think hysterical is an accurate dyscription.
If this were an NCAA sport Darren would not meet the necessary criteria.
If this were the NBA, NFL or NHL Darren would not meet the necessary criteria.

In any of the above criteria if the athlete goes against medical advice and competes- becuase you can always doctor shop untill you get the answer you want- then they put themselves at risk. In our sport we put our horses at risk.

I hope that Darren has wonderfully uneevntful rides and goes clear left right and center. Chances are that disaster is around every turn and I fear for the well being for his horses and himself.

As someone who wourks with TBI patients all the time I can assure that there is no one more sure of their opinion that a high level TBI patient. They often have very poor insight into their deficits, and have poor ability to make quick decisions. I'm not saying that this is Darren, I am not familiar with his specific injury limitations. It is up to him, his medical staff and his trainers/coaches to assure that he is medically able to EVENT.

This is a golden oppertunity for the USEA to establish some ground rules for riders returning to particiation. I hope they embrace it.

indigoecho

Jul. 2, 2008, 03:38 PM

And............Reed you are just plain scary with your data. That makes me want to put on my tipperary and take up Dressage on a mini full time for safety sake.

I'm going to say that Reed's data being scary isn't a bad thing. A little fear and awareness of your own mortality is healthy. I cringe whenever eventing is called the "horse sport for the adrenaline junkie". I think for the most part, eventers are brave and gutsy, while also having to be disciplined and smart. We also have to cultivate and appreciate all these aspects of our equine counterparts. Eventing isn't all about cross country, but that is what sets our sport apart from the other disciplines, no doubt. When you catagorize it as an "adrenaline junkie" sport, I think you minimize what is great about the sport, the fact that it takes tremendous smarts, discipline and calculation in addition to the bravery. I also think that especially the younger generation, who don't always have that "sense of mortality" need the whole perspective of what eventing is, not just a thrill ride. And they need role models who will show it to them.

I hope that all goes well for Darren, I have been rooting for him throughout his journey as an eventer. However, I think considering the scope of his injury, and also considering today's eventing "climate" this is a bad decision.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 2, 2008, 04:55 PM

As someone who wourks with TBI patients all the time I can assure that there is no one more sure of their opinion that a high level TBI patient. They often have very poor insight into their deficits, and have poor ability to make quick decisions. I'm not saying that this is Darren, I am not familiar with his specific injury limitations. It is up to him, his medical staff and his trainers/coaches to assure that he is medically able to EVENT.

This is a golden oppertunity for the USEA to establish some ground rules for riders returning to particiation. I hope they embrace it.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record..... Darren's piece in COTH, he's got the go ahead from doctors, trainers, and a fellow upper level rider to guide him back into competition.

It was a well done piece--I wish people would read it.

Yes, I agree...it's a golden opportunity to USEA to establish rules for riders returning after a concussion.

Hopefully they will enact it and make it effective immediately like they did with the one fall and your 'E'd rule.

yellowbritches

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:01 PM

blackwly- you just jogged my memory- I think BE (but maybe it is FEI- I just know about it in the context of Brit riders) has a mandatory set-down period for serious/head injuries and if you want to go back and compete sooner, you have to submit to the kinds of tests you are talking about and if you fail those, you risk being sidelined for even longer than the mandatory period. My memory is a little hazy so I could be messing up the details, but that is the gist of it. It would be worth looking at and getting USEF to adopt some type of guidelines here since I do not think they have them already (and I think it would have to be USEF- do not think there is much USEA can do).
OK, good. I'm not the only one who knew this. I remember reading about it in William Fox-Pitt's book. He got knocked unconscious at an event, helicopter ride to the hospital and was stood down. In the UK, or with the BE, not sure which, you have to pass a very intense test before allowed to compete again. WFP raised a bit of a stink in the general BE public because he pushed to get passed so he could compete at Samur or something along those lines. I think I recall in his book that he was very worried about passing, as the test is intense...he wasn't sure he could have passed it pre-head injury.

Why don't WE have something like this?

silver2

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:05 PM

British Medical Rule 43

With immediate effect, if a rider sustains a head or neck injury, with momentary confusion or alteration in mental status, without loss of consciousness, unless completely symptom free within 15 minutes, both at rest and after a short period of brisk walking, he/she will be medically suspended for at least seven days. If the rider is rendered unconscious, the suspension period shall be for at least 21 days.

A rider who is medically suspended for a head or neck injury or for any unconsciousness may only compete again when the medical suspension period has elapsed or when passed fit to compete by a Regional Medical Advisor (RMA) who may act on his own opinion or on specialist advice, or by a person appointed by the Advisor to act on his behalf (a list of RMA's is held in the Horse Trials Office).

If a rider is taken to hospital from an event without having his Medical Card completed by the doctor, a medical suspension of 21 days shall apply in respect of head or neck injuries or unconsciousness.

J Swan

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:06 PM

J Swan- I do not know about what medical tests or approvals he has had but as recently as the safety summit in June, he still did not appear to be 100% and yet was already back jumping at that point- so IMO he has already shown a propensity to do things too soon and take what I think are unnecessary risks. So even if he was 100% the day after the safety summit ended (seems unlikely), 1 month of no symptoms seems too minimal to me to competing on 5 horses including 2 YEH

I agree - I was sort of playing devil's advocate (I don't do it very well :no:). I've had the misfortune to have sustained concussions; and it was rather disconcerting to realize that I was doing things like putting my coffee in the fridge to microwave it - weeks after the accident.

So I most definitely understand and appreciate the level of concern. I just don't know what his doctors told him. It wasn't a case of going to the ER and get the "treat and street" treatment, or see a local doctor for a recurring headache and get the brush off.

I can well imagine that his fitness and athleticism played a role in his recovery; and it's known that neck muscles can help mitigate certain head injuries. I'm not convinced it makes him able to compete when his counterpart in another sport would be benched.

On the other hand - eventers don't make the big bucks like their counterparts do - and he wouldn't be the first sick or injured person to return to work because they have to pay the bills. I've known cancer patients who are pretty darn sick - forcing themselves to get up and go to work because they just can't afford to stay home and rest. So I wonder.

Who knows what the whole story is. :( I just hope he's fit as a fiddle in mind and body - and wish him the best.

pegasusmom

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:47 PM

MHO as well.

flutie/ pegasusmom/ gooddirt/ janet-- do organizers have the discretion to refuse entries?

GR914 Refusal of Entries. ... may refuse any entry of an exhibitor or the participation of any agent, trainer, rider, driver or handler who has shown an objectionable attitude or behavior at a Licensed competition or towards its management, which management is able to substantiate, or previous unsportsmanlike behavior at a Licensed Competition which management is also able to substantiate.

Sort of. If "recollection of gossip" serves me correctly this clause was added after a certain competitor sued an organizer who refused his entry.

pegasusmom

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:50 PM

I usually stay away from posting an opinion b/c who am I to second guess somebody else's decision? However, in saying that, my biggest concern (beyond my concern for his safety) is that as the head of the Safety Committee he also needs to lead by example.

FYI he is not the Chair of the USEF Safety Committee. Andrew Ellis is.

Tazzie

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:55 PM

FYI he is not the Chair of the USEF Safety Committee. Andrew Ellis is.

Thank you, I apologize, I should get my facts straight before posting.

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 05:56 PM

However, Darren was/is (?) head of the USEA Safety Committee. Gina Miles took over when he was injured.

Tazzie

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:01 PM

However, Darren was/is (?) head of the USEA Safety Committee. Gina Miles took over when he was injured.

Thanks Reed - thought I was going crazy for a minute there, so I was right, thank you!

canterlope

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:39 PM

In addition to being the head of the USEA Safety Committee, Darren is also a faculty member of the USEA Instructors' Certification Program. Since safety is an area that the ICP focuses on rather intently, it seems rather odd that one of its faculty members would conduct his affairs in a manner that runs opposite of the values the program is trying to instill. Maybe this is just a case of do as I say, not as I do. :confused:

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:42 PM

GR914 Refusal of Entries. ... may refuse any entry of an exhibitor or the participation of any agent, trainer, rider, driver or handler who has shown an objectionable attitude or behavior at a Licensed competition or towards its management, which management is able to substantiate, or previous unsportsmanlike behavior at a Licensed Competition which management is also able to substantiate.

Sort of. If "recollection of gossip" serves me correctly this clause was added after a certain competitor sued an organizer who refused his entry.

... AND three guesses who that "certain competitor" was - (and the first two guesses don't count).

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:44 PM

However, Darren was/is (?) head of the USEA Safety Committee. Gina Miles took over when he was injured.

I believe it's the Professional Horseman's Committee, not Safety Committee. I think Gina has taken it over. She was co-chair with him.

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:48 PM

I believe it's the Professional Horseman's Committee, not Safety Committee. I think Gina has taken it over. She was co-chair with him.

Oops, I can't keep my thoughts straight today. You are right, Malcolm Hook is the USEA Safety man.

Reed

FoxChaser

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:50 PM

As posted by gjump:

" OK... help me out here...
I'm the fourth competitor in the Prelim division with Darren.

I'm completely putting myself out on a limb here but if I see anything unusal or unsafe with Darren's riding or decision making I will make a stand of it to the organizers/officials.

If this does happen... what would be the best way to handle a situation like this?"

Here's someone who will be there, competing with Darren at the show in question who is willing to step in if necessary and alert someone to an unsafe ride if (s)he sees it. Does she talk to the TD?? She did have a good question, but it got kinda lost in the shuffle ;)

Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:53 PM

Since safety is an area that the ICP focuses on rather intently, it seems rather odd that one of its faculty members would conduct his affairs in a manner that runs opposite of the values the program is trying to instill. Maybe this is just a case of do as I say, not as I do. :confused:

Could also be one of the classic signs of TBI - impaired cognition and judgment. What a mess.

Extraordinary rule change, anyone?? It does seem high time we had some return to play guidelines...

slc2

Jul. 2, 2008, 06:53 PM

I disagree that neurologists have 'only book knowledge' and 'no contact with people'. In fact, they have a lot of contact with people - that's all most of them do all day, is have contact with people and they are very much in there talking to patients and working directly with families. The person who helped my friend with his brain injured kid the most was a neurologist.

I think it would be very difficult to say whether someone could ride again without having some very indepth detailed knowledge of what his neurologists have found, how he was responding to OT and PT, and I don't think anyone here is in a better position to decide what's best for Darren Chiaccia than Darren and his family and his doctors.

Brain injuries are very complicated and each one is different, but too, the therapy of them has come a million miles in the last few years and many protocols have been updated and very improved. People are coming out of these injuries, in many cases, in far better shape than ever before.

Too, having some verbal problems, and forgetting things should be expected. THe brain is very complicated. A person thru an injury can lose the ability to put a coat on a certain way, or memorize numbers, and still not be at all disabled in many other areas. He may NEVER speak exactly like he did before, he may occasionally forget things, and get on and ride very well.

It doesn't mean he should be in a hospital doing nothing. It's expected - getting back on his feet and doing things is probably good for him. THese days therapies are often intense and short - and very effective. Some authors even suggested that longer layups caused people to wind up MORE disabled.

I would also expect him to make some mistakes on course, which could have absolutely nothing to do with his brain not working right. It just could be a matter of not having ridden for a time, and feeling a little uncertain, and too - normal people make mistakes on course and forget things all the time - one MIGHT be examining his behavior too minutely.

Too, I think taking a couple horses to a horse trial at prelim IS for someone like Darren, taking it easy.

In any case, it is Darren's and his doctor's decision, and no one here has enough information to judge what Darren is doing. Even if he makes the wrong decision, it is his decision.

I would not feel less motivated to support someone if they had a second accident. If I was Darren, I would do exactly what he's doing. THis is his life. Whatever happens, it's his decision. If it is the wrong decision, it would not be the first.

Support, donations, I don't think should be given with strings. Many people DO feel that way and it's just a diferent way of looking at giving.

YRAP Mom

Jul. 2, 2008, 07:04 PM

Take a look at this brochure on the USEA safety page:

http://useventing.com/resources/files/docs/Concussion-Brochure.pdf

event1

Jul. 2, 2008, 07:05 PM

IMO Darren is a shining example of "you can't fix stupid". Some people just don't get it and are a danger to themselves.....what the hell is the rush is what I would be asking him. He has other means (teaching, coaching) to make a living in the meantime. The thing he needs to understand is that even though he is "cleared" to ride-would this really be a good idea? You can fix any part of your body-but the head is definately not one to mess with. I wish him all the luck in the world....his competitve drive is definately frightening.:confused:

citydog

Jul. 2, 2008, 07:09 PM

BarbB

Jul. 2, 2008, 07:15 PM

Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.

Good for you! That took guts.
I doubt that you will be crossed off the 'friends' list. Perhaps momentarily on the $*^# list. How long could he stay mad because you were concerned?

JER

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:27 PM

However, Darren was/is (?) head of the USEA Safety Committee. Gina Miles took over when he was injured.

Reed, it's the USEA Eventing Standards Task Force. More about that group here (http://useventing.com/aboutus.php?id=1451).

(Darren was also the head of the Professional Horsemen's Council. Don't know if that's still the case.)

~Freedom~

Jul. 2, 2008, 08:53 PM

Brain injuries are very complicated and each one is different, but too, the therapy of them has come a million miles in the last few years and many protocols have been updated and very improved. People are coming out of these injuries, in many cases, in far better shape than ever before.

Too, having some verbal problems, and forgetting things should be expected. THe brain is very complicated. A person thru an injury can lose the ability to put a coat on a certain way, or memorize numbers, and still not be at all disabled in many other areas. He may NEVER speak exactly like he did before, he may occasionally forget things, and get on and ride very well.

It doesn't mean he should be in a hospital doing nothing. It's expected - getting back on his feet and doing things is probably good for him. THese days therapies are often intense and short - and very effective. Some authors even suggested that longer layups caused people to wind up MORE disabled.

I would also expect him to make some mistakes on course, which could have absolutely nothing to do with his brain not working right. It just could be a matter of not having ridden for a time, and feeling a little uncertain, and too - normal people make mistakes on course and forget things all the time - one MIGHT be examining his behavior too minutely.

Too, I think taking a couple horses to a horse trial at prelim IS for someone like Darren, taking it easy.

In any case, it is Darren's and his doctor's decision, and no one here has enough information to judge what Darren is doing. Even if he makes the wrong decision, it is his decision.

Please slc...don't make medical assumptions without a license.

I think it would be very difficult to say whether someone could ride again without having some very indepth detailed knowledge of what his neurologists have found, how he was responding to OT and PT, and I don't think anyone here is in a better position to decide what's best for Darren Chiaccia than Darren and his family and his doctors.

I would practice what you just posted here that his NEUROLOGIST is the one that should be making any analysis.

flutie1

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:02 PM

Oops, I can't keep my thoughts straight today. You are right, Malcolm Hook is the USEA Safety man.

Reed

Brrrraaaak - wrong again. Malcolm is the USEF/FEI National Safety Geek (or whatever it's called). Too bloody confusing, too many committees!

Jazzy Lady

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:09 PM

okay... as of today Darren has 2 in the OI at Stuart...

caffeinated

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:10 PM

I would also expect him to make some mistakes on course, which could have absolutely nothing to do with his brain not working right. It just could be a matter of not having ridden for a time, and feeling a little uncertain, and too - normal people make mistakes on course and forget things all the time - one MIGHT be examining his behavior too minutely.

Too, I think taking a couple horses to a horse trial at prelim IS for someone like Darren, taking it easy.

erm... slc, making some mistakes might be expected, but I would think if you're anticipating some mistakes, running around on an XC course is probably not the best thing, seeing as the consequences can be so very bad.

And even if prelim is "easy" to someone like Darren, isn't that the level at which he sustained his injury in the first place?

I really, sincerely hope that he IS better and IS ready, and that everything works out fine. It's always an inspiration to me when people come back from such major setbacks- it keeps me getting in the saddle when I go flying off. So I do hope that everyone really is over-reacting. At the same time, it's sort of hard to help being worried- there's been so many kicks to the gut in the horse world this year, it's hard not to anticipate more.

Copper

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:16 PM

Don't bother wasting your energy on SLC you guys - she knows nothing about it - just the resident troll.

JL- I checked Stuart earlier - guess they just updated.

throwurheart

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:24 PM

As the child of a WWII era military man, I grew up in a culture that put the greater good before one's own needs. I have noticed (rocket scientist that I am) that our culture in the intervening decades has become more about entitlement and self-determination and less about sacrifice for the good of all. I do not mean to be mounting a high horse here - I do selfish and self-serving things all the time, try as I might to not! :) My only point is to say that culture changes over time with the cumulative effect of one decision layered upon another, one action upon another. For those who say it's his life, his choice, you're absolutely right, it is. But don't think that his choice, as a leader of the sport, doesn't matter. It does. He leads by example, and what a great and selfless action if Darren would get back to running his business, but hold off on competing *quite* so soon. This would turn his near-tragedy into a significant and positive leap forward for eventing.

And by stating this idea publicly, as several others have, we exert the very peer pressure that is responsible for shaping actions and culture. Otherwise I would just duck this whole conversation, as I don't really feel it's my business.

But in any case, I certainly wish him well.

deltawave

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:25 PM

Hypothetical question: would YOU (the collective "you", not addressing this to anyone in particular) let your child, spouse, or other loved one do what DC is doing? I sure as heck would NOT.

JER

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:30 PM

Dr. Doolittle

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:35 PM

Eventer724

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:39 PM

I have to agree with Nirvana that Darren is not right still...to be competing at prelim (if at all) seems absolutely ridiculous...perhaps someone needs to intervene? I was also at the summit and found it very disheartening that he could not stick with the theme of the meeting..stating rider responsibility...he certainly did not exhibit this when he was speaking...neither suggesting he may have made a bad choice or that he was pushing too far too fast with that horse. How can we expect those that are up and coming to look themselves in the mirror and come to terms with their mistakes if the very top people cannot do this first. Every person I have talked to regarding that horse's experience has said that he should not have been going prelim and if he was that he had no business trying to take him the short route. I don't want to be accusatory but someone with as much respect and talent as Darren ought to be able to set a good example and say that maybe he didn't make the right choice and he payed the ultimate price...or almost the ultimate price. Perhaps competing again so soon would be another one of those mistakes not mentioned?

pixietrix

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:41 PM

I have resisted as long as I could but I need to pipe up.....this is the kind of behavior that ULRs claim to be "dangerous". IMHO, Darren has abandoned all the rhetoric of taking responsibility and leading by example, being safe, etc. etc. His choice of this particular event is ironic, it is "local" in the sense that the organizers have no idea of what has been whipping the eventing population in this country into a frenzy for the last 5 months. I believe Darren knew he would get little resistance to his questionable timing when he chose the GVH event.

I will e-mail Kevin B & Malcolm Hook & ask them to please take action. It is clear that "no one tells Darren what to do", so we need real leadership from the USEA and the USEF. If there is no "return to play" policy in place, how about a heart-felt request from these people to stand down in light of the current atmosphere of public scrutiny. If any of you feel this is a situation we can't let continue, I would contact these people as well.

Even if Darren is willing to take the risk, we all go down in this boat whether we like it or not.

closetoperfectionfarm

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:46 PM

Having a catostrophic fall and injury should make even superman just a tweensy weensy ittle afraid of just the POSSIBILITY of a fall again.
I don't get his "people" letting him go ahead.
I had a very bad fall and it shattered my confidence, it has taken a few years to start to feel confident again.
I don't care WHO you are, it is soooooooo hard to feel gutsy again for a long time. Look at Stephen Bradley after his horrific fall back in 92 or 93, he said it took so long to be right again with his courage.
And the horses feel it from the rider.

CoolMeadows

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:55 PM

Nope. Not a chance.

Nor would I let my child ride in the same warm-up ring as DC.

Ditto that. Unless I *really* disliked my spouse, had a big insurance policy on him and hated the horses he was riding... so NO since I've never met a horse I hated and wouldn't want the SO gone.

I've had a close family member with a TBI - he was found posturing and was airlifted to the hospital where he was in a coma for 2 months. After his rehab he stayed with me for four months and was irrational and beligerent about what he was capable of during his recovery and really just about anything else... just combative in general. Never mind that he would consistantly ask the same question twice within 5 minutes, he was just *fine* and we could go screw ourselves. :eek: He was lucky, as is Darren, and eventually recovered fully enough to complete his JD but he continued to have moments of confusion for 2 full years. No WAY was he going to be allowed to do some of the insane things he thought he should be doing (serious athlete) while his brain was healing, even if it did mean we had to deal with his rants at the time. It was worth every *&%! off! from him to have him truly whole again in the here and now and he feels the same.

I don't know the details of Darren's injury but we all know he had a significant TBI. If those that know him well don't think he's himself yet, no way should anyone who cares about him or any of his horses allow him to ride around P or I courses... or probably even ride at all right now.

RAyers

Jul. 2, 2008, 09:59 PM

Brrrraaaak - wrong again. Malcolm is the USEF/FEI National Safety Geek (or whatever it's called). Too bloody confusing, too many committees!

See, you don't even need a head injury to be really out of it. My job is done here.

Reed

YRAP Mom

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:05 PM

Darren actually appears to meet the criteria to be "cleared" for a return to riding.

See the USEA brochure "Wake up to Concussions" at the link below. I'd paste the document in here but it's much too long. Note the 21 days before return to competition after the grade 3 concussion

http://useventing.com/resources/files/docs/Concussion-Brochure.pdf

2016 RoyalCrown KTug

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:12 PM

Let's just hope all goes well, and he and the horses come home safe and sound.

It is HIS decision. He is a grown man. Darren can do what he chooses to when and where.

Fingers crossed :yes:

BarbB

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:17 PM

My experience with TBI was similar to others posted here. The person who was injured was active and athletic (competitive runner and serious mountain climber) and after a short recovery period (following a coma) spent about six months proclaiming that he was FINE! DAMMIT!

It was over a year before he was really fine and he was extremely grateful that everyone close to him had
1. put up with this nonsense
and
2. kept him from doing some of the things that he proclaimed he was fine to do

Everyone breathed a heavy sigh of relief when it became evident that he was really fully recovered, nearly a year and a half after the accident.

I don't know anything specific about Darren's injuries, but the scenario related by many people here seems to be more the usual one than someone being fit to resume a high risk sport in a few months.

bosox

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:30 PM

for eventing to go to the two track system. One for professionals--and one for ammies. If this is how the pro is going to act--then as far as I am concerned--they need to play by their own special sort of rules.

I know that Darren's accident happened after USEA enacted the 1 fall XC rule however USEA had ample opportunity to grandfather-in some of those earlier falls and did not. So who did it roll down the hill to--the ammies.

Also---my daughter had a MBI June 22nd. She went to a very well known Pediatic Trauma Center on the East Coast. She had a grade 3 concussion. She was told that she could ride after 1 week of being symptom free. So if her mother went by what that doc said--- lil' bosox could have been riding by June 28th/29th depending on when I felt the last symptom had happened. I told her 2 weeks of no riding---and scheduled her follow up visit for 20 days after the accident. I have a feeling that lil'bosox is going to be angry at me.

If the Pro's don't feel that they need safety guidelines...then they need to go off on their own...and make the rules that they feel apply to them. (they may still want to try to make rules for the LLRs too--but another problem to be addressed another day.)

Snapdragon

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:34 PM

Let's just hope all goes well, and he and the horses come home safe and sound.

It is HIS decision. He is a grown man. Darren can do what he chooses to when and where.

Fingers crossed :yes:

If I were close to him, I wouldn't want to hope, I would want to know that he is absolutely 100% before he went out there again. I don't even know him, and I feel that way.

He is a grown man, but he's a grown man who has suffered a serious injury to his brain. And as others have posted about their own experiences and loved ones' experiences with TBI, people who have this type of injury sometimes don't realize their limitations.

If you go by what people have said about how he was at the safety summit, he is not 100%.

maxxtrot

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:35 PM

yes, i agree, darren has the right to do whatever he feels he can do. but his horses cannot speak up for themselves. and i for one feel as someone(us) or whoever it be(usef,usea) needs to step in and do something. i saw that someone else said earlier in this thread that when/if darren does have another fall of horse or rider the boat for eventing is going to sink, and we as a whole are going to be on board, like it or not.
i am very glad to hear that jill emailed him, and i sure hope he does not cross you off his list of friends, as i see it, he needs more friends like you! just not a good thought process to be running 5 horses a little over 4 months after such a serious fall.
i had a very serious fall at the kentucky horse park 12 yeras ago. medics said i should not have walked away, i did, but with a very serious concussion. did not remember what happened, had no track of time after the fall. packed the trailer and drove home, don't remember anything, not even the driving the rig all the way home. scary shit, let me tell you. i landed face first in a rotational fall(horse was unhurt) but i was so out of it for a very long time. i don't even remember the fall, just know what happened as someone had video taped it, and allowed me to watch it months later. i was lucky, so was darren. why push the envolpe so early? i did not event for quite awhile(my choice) i have been for the last 7 years, but have not gone back up past prelim, just don't want to now. i am having a blast bringing along the greenies at the lower levels. and there is nothing to be ashamed for wanting to only do that.(plus, i don't bounce back up like i used too:) )
so, i do hope it is an uneventful weekend for the sport as a whole, fingers,toes crossed.

dgm

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:43 PM

...Darren can do what he chooses to when and where.

Actually, no. When his potentially very bad decision makes me worry about what new rules are going to be headed our way if he is wrong, I don't think he should be able to do what he chooses to and when. We can't get back on our BN horses after a simple pop-off-and-land-on-your-feet at a fence, but Darren can go out and compete less than four months after such a serious accident? That does not exactly say "Safety is our first priority" to me. I will not mind occasionally being overprotected, if I can see that the Darrens of the world are expected to conform to the same sort of philosophy.

While it is not possible to make everyone happy (ever!), this would be a great opportunity for USEA leadership to clearly show that safety is at the top of their list. I sent a brief email to that effect to Kevin Baumgardner and the Safety Committee.

Bensmom

Jul. 2, 2008, 10:54 PM

So many folks have made so many good points here. This really is a place where USEF/USEA could step in and inact a Really Good Policy that mirrors other sports with a "return to play" scenario. I know that Rusty Lowe, who is chair of the USEA safety committee used to lurk here -- Rusty are you reading all of this?

The lawyer in me would really like to see:

1) some official association "return to play" guidelines -- and yes, I know that there are liability concerns with that, but the NFL has them so there has to be a way we could too, and 2) some protection for organizers who would prefer to not have someone who wasn't safe compete at their event.

I would also like to clarify that my comments about the fundraising had NOTHING to do with strings attached, however, would I want to see that sort of appeal have to be raised again, no. I would not. Which was my only point.

Carry on.

Eventer724

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:07 PM

ok so isn't it ironic that in the hubbub of getting entries together again, Darren has failed to submit his emergency contact info for the OI at Stuart??? Somebody stop him!!! He is not all there!!! I have seen him recently and his ducks are not in a row...and for god sakes if he's going to compete again, you would think he would include his emergency contact information!!! and perhaps a medical report as well!!!! I hope he remembers his armband!!! Action needs to be taken here...this is not a good decision

blackwly

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:07 PM

This thing is frustrating on so many levels.

For all we are hearing about rider responsibility, and the intelligence or savvyness or competence of our UL pros, these moves of questionable reasoning just keep coming. So your doctor clears you to ride. How about riding at home for 6 months? Traveling and teaching clinics? Entering one horse - not 5 - into an event? And not moving up to intermediate the next weekend? How is anyone with an interest in safety supposed to get anything done in this sport when people keep acting with such recklessness?

And then there are the owners. I can understand how some of Darren's biggest owners want to remain loyal to him and keep their horses with him. Great. But you don't have to be party to this potential disaster. When my mom died, I was 25, in med school, and suddenly the owner of a breeding/training farm and 50 horses. My mother's assistant trainer had a devastating fall (from one of my horses) and severe spinal cord injury 3 weeks later. After extensive rehab, she wanted to ride again. Knowing what I know about the nature of her injury, I said "not on my farm." I paid her, facilitated her rehab, gave her a role in training on the ground and a nice place to live. When I eventually discovered she had gone behind my back and ridden several of my horses, I gave her a healthy severence package and we went our separate ways. It was not easy - I had no help and I had a tremendous amount of loyalty to this woman. But sometimes you have to take a stand and protect someone from themselves as best you can...at the least, you can say, "Not on my horse, not today."

EventFan

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:31 PM

I am not an eventer, just a huge eventing fan. I am also the adult daughter of a woman who had a TBI. The healing process took alot longer than the short time Darren has had to heal. Even when her Dr's "released" her, she had a ways to go. She insisted many times that she was "fine", but those around her knew better. Does Darren not have anyone surrounding him to tell him he's not ready? I really worry about him riding; I worry about the horses he will ride; and I worry about the spectators watching. If he suffers another catastrophic fall, it could not only harm Darren, but the horse and the fans watching the event. I have always looked up to Darren, but I am sorely dissappointed in his decision to compete so quickly. I want this sport to continue bigger and better; but it will not if we continue to ignore dangerous decisions. Jill, I admire and respect your decision to send D. an email even if it causes a temporary rift in your friendship. This is just my opinion as a fan.

ideayoda

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:38 PM

I would hope that the organizers (like they have at other shows) would IMMEDIATELY stop any rider which might be unsafe for the horse or rider. I know that some horse/riders are discussed by the organizers ahead of time and the jump judges are told to step in and stop said combos IF there is a hint of problem.

SEPowell

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:46 PM

I don't know what to say except that here in Geneseo we have really good emts, and of course we all like Darren very much and wish him the best.

glfprncs

Jul. 2, 2008, 11:53 PM

I'm an 8th grade teacher and had a student struck by a car while riding his bicycle (without a helmet, of course) just before Christmas this past school year. After being taken to the nearest trauma center, he was immediately put into a drug-induced coma, had emergency surgery to remove several blood clots that were in his brain and to reduce the swelling inside his skull, and amazingly, was back to school by the beginning of February. He had stayed in this 'twilight' sleep for a little over a week.

We wanted his mother to wait, however, she insisted because her son told her that if he stayed at home any longer he was going to go insane. The difference was amazing. He was on medication to prevent seizures after the trauma, and that medication really spaced him out. His speech was slurred, he had difficulties with output in the form of writing, and for the first time in his life, really struggled academically in school. In addition, he seemed sleepy and lethargic. After being taken off of his anti-seizure medication, he brightened up a LOT, his speech patterns returned to normal and his schoolwork seemed to be easier. I don't know if anti-seizure med. is 'the norm' after massive head injury, but in talking with him after he was weaned off the medication, he said it made him feel like he was walking around in a clouded haze.

In addition, his personality was quite different. Prior to the accident, he was a bit of a troublemaker. Afterwards, when his 'partners in crime' would suggest they do something silly together, he would look at them like they were ridiculous and tell them, "That's just the stupidist idea I've ever heard."

In addition, he also suffered some memory loss. He remembered nothing about the accident, and after he was released from the hospital, his friends would come over and he didn't remember their names. Of course, after being back in school for awhile, whenever I would give a writing assignment based on an old memory, he would tell me (with that *#it eating grim on his face, "I can't remember any of my old memories. You know, I had that little accident back in December, right?"). It was then that I knew he was on his way to a true recovery!!

All of that said, in March, he tried out for the baseball team, made it, and played the entire season.

Don't know why I felt compelled to share...another head trauma story that similar to Darren's in that the injured person felt the need to jump back in with both feet, regardless of what everyone else was telling them to do.

ezmissg

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:17 AM

Do you have a picture (or a link to a picture) of the jump? Would be interesting to see what you guys are talking about.
Thanks!

I don't have a picture, but it was a cannon. No, REALLY, it was a CANNON. :yes: Civil War...boom, boom. With, I believe, 3 cannon balls as the "groundline". I remember hearing someone say that, essentially, you needed to jump the cannon balls (i.e., that narrow a space for accuracy).

Maybe Jill or Ruthie can confirm and/or elaborate.

ezmissg

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:25 AM

Well I bit the bullet and wrote an email to the man himself. Many of your thoughts and concerns were in it. I am fairly certain I will be crossed off the "friend" roster, but it was worth it...not that it will do any good.

Way to go, Jill!

I know that this could have been difficult for you, but this is an excellent example of the leadership/action that people have claimed to be lacking among the ULRs.

I imagine that you will be off the roster, but we should consider that to be as poor a decision as others Darren appears to be making of late.

And, if nothing else, you should take heart in knowing that, regardless of the outcome of his competing, you can always look his family in the eye.

ezmissg

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:38 AM

I did send an e-mail to the USEA and both the USEA and USEF safety committee e-mail addresses and I encourage others to do the same if you have strong feelings. I am not sure if the safety committee e-mail addresses are permanent, so if anyone has ideas about the best person to e-mail, I would love to hear them.

I think, among other things, this sets a horrible example for younger riders.

Can you provide a link or a list of those email addresses, please?

Maybe Darren has found the loopholes by which he can enter/complete, but it seems to me that the USEA should boot him from whatever safety committee or task force he has served on. From a "positioning" standpoint, I would think the USEA/USEF need to distance themselves from his decision to compete right now. If these organizations do nothing, it will unquestionably appear to be a case of implicit endorsement, if not actually complicit participation....

poltroon

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:12 AM

Hypothetical question: would YOU (the collective "you", not addressing this to anyone in particular) let your child, spouse, or other loved one do what DC is doing? I sure as heck would NOT.

And the first time out: ONE horse. No more.

With one horse, it can be more of a take-it-easy situation. With one horse, it's easy to just pull up - without jeopardizing your status on the next ride. Lots of down time between rides. It can be much more experimental, much more, hey, let's see how it goes, I'm only here for a little fun.

poopoo

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:24 AM

This whole thing makes me think "stupid is as stupid does". The thing with brain injuries is you think you are fine to do the thing at that time, and then, later (maybe a year later....), you realize you weren't fine at all. You don't realize your deficit at the time, but later, after more cognitive healing has occurred, you realize your mistake. Not to mention, I bet if he hits his head again like that, it will be he last time. Why take that chance? What is the hurry? No foot, no horse.....no brain, no rider! And what perfect timing to be taking chances like that after the current wave of accidents.....??????? Hello, as an adult you can make your own decisions, but not when your brain is giving you faulty information. Do we let people with Altzheimer's or Schizophrenia make decisions? Not if we care about them...... And yes, he is going to get mad being told, but that, also, can be the nature of brain injuries - mood and rage problems. Brain injuries take years to heal, maybe even a lifetime. That's the hand we have been dealt, and we have to accept it and be realistic about our plans. Everybody gets something.......

DLee

Jul. 3, 2008, 07:08 AM

But obviously he has to be riding pretty heavily right now... don't you think it's obvious whether he will be able to do it or not long before he hits the start box?

saje

Jul. 3, 2008, 07:18 AM

He probably is riding and schooling a lot. But there is a difference between schooling at home and a full, intense competition with multiple horses. I can only hope that muscle memory & his instincts for riding take over, and that he has uncomplicated trips. He may indeed do just fine, it's the what ifs that are frightening - for him, for the horses, and for the sport as a whole.

I don't doubt that he wants back in the game ASAP, and I don't blame him for wanting it in the least. And given time and a healthy dose of luck he will probably make a full comeback. IMO though he should have waited another 6 months or so...

riderboy

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:01 AM

I don't know what to say except that here in Geneseo we have really good emts, and of course we all like Darren very much and wish him the best. Holy moses, THAT sounds ominous. Neurolgists have really no good way of measuring very important intangibles including emotional reactions (anger) which could have a ginormous impact on the ride, and subtle up or down judgement calls during the ride. It's the same "They told me I couldn't do it but I'll show 'em " attitude that gets us trouble. In my profession that attitude will get your license suspended.

deltawave

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:02 AM

It's arguably his decision, but they are not his horses. It is not his sport.

I would be pretty damn pissed (pardon my French) if my donation to the Equestrian Aid Foundation was used to help this irresponsible, selfish man pay for recovery from his 2nd head injury in 4 months. He's going out and competing while his fans, supporters and fans of the sport are still footing the bill for his recovery? OUTRAGEOUS.

riderboy

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:06 AM

Go delta!

2ndyrgal

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:09 AM

Well said Deltawave. I don't think there should be a free pass for stupidity.

Sligodashoe

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:23 AM

My thought is that given the general litigousness of our society, is it wise to allow him to particpate? Any problems at all, and the first thing some lawyer will do is say, "why was he allowed to ride? Didn't anyone KNOW?"

No matter what people say upfront (I'd never sue, I take personal responsibility), in the end if something does happen, odds are yes there would be a law suit, and signing an entry form may not absolve anyone of blame.

LisaB

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:25 AM

Jill,
you may be one of the few true friends he has. His ego is what got him there in the first place and now, well, it's seems his ego is getting the better of him again. He does surround himself with 'yes men'. And he's no spring chicken so I suspect that a change in his personality is not on the agenda.
But you are an example of what we all need to do when we see a friend doing the same thing. Bravo.
And Delta, you absolutely nailed it. He clearly doesn't think of the bigger picture here. He could kill a horse. He could kill himself. He could suck the funds dry of good hearted folks. Very selfish of him.

europa

Jul. 3, 2008, 08:52 AM

He obviously is aware that the white hot spotlight of attention will be focused on him so why not take a seasoned horse out for the first go round. Nope let's take 5 and 2 young ones! Now there is a great idea. And as the safety commander in chief he is obviously more versed then everyone else on safety matters right? Doesn't he understand that all the smurfs will be cringing and unable to watch as he gallops around? Does he just not care or is there some sadistic part of him that enjoys scaring people and proving to them that he has no fear? I know a few adrenaline junkies and I believe that Darren could quite possibly be one. My ex (notice ex boyfriend) would drive like a maniac to scare me....thought it was funny. Very funny........I can tell you I enjoyed it. And the fact is that he has had 5 times the amount of car accidents as the average citizen. See my point?

If I were Darren's horses I would be saying don't even try it till you are 100%. and I am sure (or I can hope) that Darren would not ride a less then 100% horse. What is the difference? I am not sure if it is the clouded judgement or the pride and money motivator but whatever it is it is not a SMART or a GOOD idea.

And, knowing full well the state of the sport, cooler heads should be prevailing. As a breeder he would NOT be riding my horse. That is all I can say.

poopoo

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:03 AM

He's going out and competing while his fans, supporters and fans of the sport are still footing the bill for his recovery? OUTRAGEOUS.

And true selfishness once again rears its ugly head. Doesn't really surprise me at all. I guess all of those "benefits" were lucrative enough so that he could get right back to it and pick up where he left off. I hope the next ULR who gets hurt has enough insurance so the whole eventing world doesn't have to pick up the pieces. Did Darren not have the proper coverage? He did get a special jet ride home.....???

asterix

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:10 AM

Don't know about your "proper coverage," but pretty sure mine does not include jet rides of any sort. Most normal health coverage has some kind of upper limit that can be fairly quickly reached if you have a truly catastrophic accident of this sort. No idea about the circumstances here, but having big medical bills to pay does not always mean you did not have what would be considered "good" coverage in place.

mbarrett

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:20 AM

I just emailed the USEA about my concerns regarding Darren and his upcoming eventing activities.

I don't know if it will do any good, but I sure do feel better.

Old Time Rider

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:22 AM

Jill>Thank you for being a friend to Darren.
My experience in personal in the brain injured field. And I wasn't in a coma for a week, but my friends still refer to me the first couple years following as 'the other one'. One major problem with head injuries is fatique - and times at events aren't forgiving. Best informative book is: 'Head Injury: the Facts' by D. Gronwall, R. Wrightson, & P. Waddell. Made lots of sense to me and my friends & family following my stroke and I've given copies to numerous others who were dealing with head injuries. I wish Darren well, but I'm concerned for his safety.

allpurpose

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:33 AM

"If you know me even a little, then you know, no one tells me what to do," said Darren Chiacchia (pg. 16, COTH, 06/27/08).

Wow. Just wow. I think this quote says it all. :no:

flyingchange

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:37 AM

ugh. I thought the newly refreshed number one priority of USEF was THE HORSE. Now's the time to show it.

It was easy stuffing the one fall your out rule into the LLE's faces. Now it's time for USEF to put on its BIG BOY panties and do the responsible thing - for the HORSE.

Robby Johnson

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:38 AM

Just have a few minutes to type because I'm heading out the door for vacation (woot!) but I will say from my nearly 10 years working in the field of brain injury rehabilitation, that there is a huge disconnection between neurologists and behaviorists. As illustrated through so many stories - both here and across the board with any injury, really - there are serious behavioral and cognitive deficits and changes that present when a person "recovers" from a brain injury. It's not that their body/brain cannot function in some capacity, it's that it is altered as a result of the trauma. The brain is an organ that doesn't just heal. It's essentially gray matter, the functions of which, to this day, are not really understood - just speculatively referenced.

There is a serious amount of research and other information available. The best place to start is the Brain Injury Association of America, which is located at www.biausa.org.

Rye

Jul. 3, 2008, 09:59 AM

But can't the show refuse his entry? Seriously? if the man isn't well enough to realize that he's further risking his health and the life of his horse, wouldn't the show be best serving him as well as the eventing community by refusing to let him show?

I think the whole equestrian world wants his story to have a victorious and happy ending with him returning to competition, but this is a disaster waiting to happen. If he can't make good judgements for himself (which is obvious that he can't), then the USEA or some other governing body or the shows themselves should help him make the right decision.

EventingJ

Jul. 3, 2008, 10:04 AM

wow, I am surprised at some of the responses here....

All I will say is that it must be very hard to be in a situation where you are trying to get back to what you do for a living. While I too hope that he has not been over ambitious, I certainly hope the best for him. I know that another fall would be very detrimental (no pun intended)... I sincerely hope the best for him, and assume he would not be ignoring that which doctors would or would not suggest.

nirvana002

Jul. 3, 2008, 10:17 AM

Just to let you guys know I got a response from Darren...I was kind of shocked. He actually thanked me for having the "balls" to say something to his face. He said that if for any reason things do not feel right he will pull up or not go. It is concerning that he still says he is "working toward a complete recovery". I think he should reach that goal first before competing. He said that he has nothing to prove to anyone. He feels this is important for his recovery. He feels riding Windfall and Better I do around prelim is "taking things very slowly" That was about the jist of the email.

Jill

Pixie Dust

Jul. 3, 2008, 10:20 AM

Judging from what I am reading about his behavior and brain injuries in general, it doesn't sound like he's being stupid or stubborn. It sounds like is brain is injured. You injure something and it doesn't work right.

Seems like a good time to come up with some rules regarding injuries and when you can compete again after an injury.

MaryKay

Jul. 3, 2008, 10:26 AM

Milocalwinnings

Jul. 3, 2008, 10:47 AM

I've been skimming through some of the pages but I haven't read every post... and I know a lot of people have been sending concerned emails to the USEA. Obviously most of us want his entry pulled to allow for a better recovery time before getting back on three horses... and I'm just curious:
If the USEA-or whoever emails are being sent to- got an overflow of emails regarding this issue, would they do anything about the situation? Whether it be not allowing him specifically to compete or coming up with a new rule about how long after a head injury anyone can compete?

I think that if the USEA and/or the show pulled his entry- it may actaully help the bad press the sport has gotten. Yeah you'll have people pi$$ed because he wasn't allowed to ride, but over all, people both in the sport and who watch it would see changes being made for the over all safety of the riders and horses.

riderboy

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:03 AM

Me, mine, what he wants. Important to him. Incredibly selfish and dangerous. No one is saying he can"t ride. No one is saying he can't train or teach. No, he needs to get out in public to what? Show off? You don't have to be a physician ( although I am ) to understand that this has nothing but down side for our sport and his horses. Even if he is completely recovered, which I don't buy for a minute, the total inability of him to listen to our concerns is shocking. No matter what he should wait brfor e resuming competition at that level. Hell, it was at prelim that he was almost killed.

sidepasser

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:05 AM

I think this event will be the most watched in the history of eventing with all holding their collective breath that nothing goes wrong.

I do fear though that if there is a successful go with no problems, that others who may not be able to recover as well as Darren, may point to his return and say "well he did it and didn't get hurt". That may lead to others trying to return even faster and with more disasterous results.

Scary for the sport any which way you look at it. I do hope Darren has a successful go, gets around clean with his horses and that doing so contributes to his healing process. I would never wish anything but the best for all competitors and their horses, but I know from my personal experience, it was 3 years before I felt "all there".

I did get right back on a horse after leaving the hospital....but it was my oldest, ancient broodmare who toted beginners for years and would never expend the energy to hardly walk, much less do any more. I was in a round pen with helmet on, being LED by a friend. I did it that one day just to prove to myself that I could get on..then spent the next year learning to ambulate correctly, and helping my brain relearn things. It was 3 years total before I felt that I was "good enough" to ride independently and I used a sports psychologist to help me get over my fears of riding a horse. I ended up buying a very safe trail mule and still have her to this day and she is on lease toting another rider right now. That mule has a home here when she retires!

I still have some memory loss and remember nothing of my accident. My coordination is good (other than age related slowness) and my mind seems to work well - most of the time - :>) but I am very careful now about what horses I ride or even work with on the ground and my accident was 18 years ago. I was told by my neuro that I should never have another fall - especially one that could land me on my head.

I choose to ride because to do otherwise is to sentence myself to a slow death, but I won't ride anything that is even slightly given to temperment outbursts and I don't jump. I tried it and I COULD do it, but felt that given my extensive head injuries before, I was simply "laughing in the face of good reason", so now stick to flatwork and trail riding. I think the trying to jump was part of my recovery and thankfully I had the good sense to realize that I was placing myself and my family in peril (economically and emotionally) and so gave it up.

I REALLY wanted to become an eventer, it was the PEOPLE involved more than anything after riding western for so many years on the rail. Everyone I have met has been more than kind and helpful to me. I realized that as close as I will ever come to being a "real" eventer is to perhaps do some dressage only tests at an eventing type show and by volunteering which I plan to do after the kid leaves for college this fall. I would think it irresponsible of myself to place the eventing community in jeopardy if I were to attempt to compete knowing that a serious fall may have detrimental consequences to the organizers, other eventers and my family (not to mention myself).

So I root for you folks from the sidelines and I attend as many events as I can which are close to my house and continue to practice my flatwork (and yes, my TWH mare is learning to flex, and give and not be such a board..lol) while my mare I bought for eventing, is going to have to learn dressage only or go back to western pleasure. That is enough for me and as "exciting as it gets" around here.

I find this sport to be in turmoil and much different than when I was jump judging years ago, but I still get excited to watch a good x-c round and root for everyone to be safe, successful and prepared.

Most of all right now, I am holding my breath hoping that the rest of this season will be a safe one.

Bensmom

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:10 AM

But, you see guys, that is part of the problem. (The question above as to why the show can't pull his entry, or USEA/USEF can't)

Buried in the posts above is the rule that allows a show to refuse an entry. It is very limited and allowed only in the case of someone displaying discourteous conduct towards staff of the show itself.

This is a situation that needs to be addressed -- as organizers take a real beating when an accident occurs at their event, they need to be protected in the event that they feel a competitor should not be entered at their event for a safety reason. It is their liability insurance that could potentially be impacted, plus the huge public relations backlash that could be a problem if someone was injured that "everyone" knew shouldn't be out there competing.

But, that will take a rule change, but it is one that I think should be addressed, along with a return to play system.

Jill, I really respect you for having that email discussion with Darren and I understand why he would think that taking the advanced horses around prelim is easy and taking it slow. Thank you both for your concern in contacting him and for sharing that with us.

But what concerns me is that I know of two people that had severe TBIs from falls in which THEY DIDN'T HIT THEIR HEADS. One fell from a ladder onto his rear end and one rolled out of a bed, jarring the brain. Both were older, but someone who has just had a TBI is in the same risk category, for a different reason, but still increased risk, for an additional TBI.

Something as minor as hopping down and landing too hard on your feet could re-start a bleed, or knock loose a clotted area.

And, again, I know he is a grown up and can make decisions for himself, but I have grave concerns for the sport and can hear the outcry now if something goes wrong. "Why didn't someone stop him?!?"

Because, we can't. All the same risks exist riding at home, really as at a competition, but if he falls at a competition, the organizer, and the association will take a lot of the public backlash, and that concerns me.

But, I guess all we can do is to sit back and watch and hope and wish the best for him, the organizers of GV and Stuert and the organization. Perhaps we'll all get lucky and it will go great.

I'll be holding my breath, though.

nirvana002

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:15 AM

But, you see guys, that is part of the problem.

Buried in the posts above is the rule that allows a show to refuse an entry. It is very limited and allowed only in the case of someone displaying discourteous conduct towards staff of the show itself.

This is a situation that needs to be addressed -- as organizers take a real beating when an accident occurs at their event, they need to be protected in the event that they feel a competitor should not be entered at their event for a safety reason. It is their liability insurance that could potentially be impacted, plus the huge public relations backlash that could be a problem if someone was injured that "everyone" knew shouldn't be out there competing.

But, that will take a rule change, but it is one that I think should be addressed, along with a return to play system.

Jill, I really respect you for having that email discussion with Darren and I understand why he would think that taking the advanced horses around prelim is easy and taking it slow. Thank you both for your concern in contacting him and for sharing that with us.

But what concerns me is that I know of two people that had severe TBIs from falls in which THEY DIDN'T HIT THEIR HEADS. One fell from a ladder onto his rear end and one rolled out of a bed, jarring the brain. Both were older, but someone who has just had a TBI is in the same risk category, for a different reason, but still increased risk, for an additional TBI.

Something as minor as hopping down and landing too hard on your feet could re-start a bleed, or knock loose a clotted area.

And, again, I know he is a grown up and can make decisions for himself, but I have grave concerns for the sport and can hear the outcry now if something goes wrong. "Why didn't someone stop him?!?"

Because, we can't. All the same risks exist riding at home, really as at a competition, but if he falls at a competition, the organizer, and the association will take a lot of the public backlash, and that concerns me.

But, I guess all we can do is to sit back and watch and hope and wish the best for him, the organizers of GV and Stuert and the organization. Perhaps we'll all get lucky and it will go great.

I'll be holding my breath, though.

I would be very interested to find out how Darren's family feels about him competing so soon..oh an ironically Darren's brother is a personal injury lawyer.

ValleyMiss

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:15 AM

I emailed the USEA this morning. I don't know if it will do anything, but I feel better.

Jill-I'm glad to hear that Darren emailed you, hopefully he won't compete if it doesn't feel right. Unfortunately I have a feeling he will be competing unless someone else tells him he can't.

J Swan

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:25 AM

Deltawave - I truly understand and even agree with your posts - but you're a doctor and a competitor.

Surely you of all people would appreciate what the realities are. How many of your patients are doing things they shouldn't - BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. Because insurance doesn't pay everything - even the best insurance can leave a patient practically destitute for injuries or illness. Because they're in a profession where if they take any time for themselves - business goes away.

This goes for pretty much all patients - not just Darren. How many cancer patients drag themselves into the office, vomiting in their car, in the bathroom, tired, susceptible to every little bug or virus - and keep doing it because they have bills to pay, they're out of sick leave, their boss is a jerk, etc.

For most of us - eventing is a hobby - a very serious hobby. For others, it's their profession. He's not a basketball player making 13 million - he's got no lucrative contracts, teams fighting over him, advertisers throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at him for simply holding their product.

There are many people who are suffering from terrible illnesses or injuries and simply cannot sit at home for a year. And they can't afford to ease back in as slowly as they'd like to.

Haven't any of you ever had to wade through the mountains of insurance paperwork, the denied claims, the appeals, the disappearing bank account - and cried yourself to sleep at night wondering how you're going to make it? If you're going to lose everything? How you're going to pay your bills?

I dunno - some of you appear to be lacking compassion. I think it's too early for this man to return to competing (especially the way he's doing it). I also doubt he's as healed as he thinks he is.

But having seen friends struggle with devastating illnesses; I think I can appreciate what challenges he might be facing right now.

And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. :no:

I would be pretty damn pissed (pardon my French) if my donation to the Equestrian Aid Foundation was used to help this irresponsible, selfish man pay for recovery from his 2nd head injury in 4 months. He's going out and competing while his fans, supporters and fans of the sport are still footing the bill for his recovery? OUTRAGEOUS.

JER

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:31 AM

Maybe the New York Times will take notice.

That's what got the USEA's attention before; without that first article, I doubt there'd ever have been a safety summit.

If the USEA stands by and does nothing, all the concern they've professed for the welfare of the horse and the safety of the rider goes right out the window.

I think it's time for an emergency rule change. Call it the Darren Rule. The USEA couldn't act fast enough with the one-fall rule, even though there are many years of data that show that LL falls are not the problem with the sport. So we know the USEA can make changes when they want -- it's just a question of what changes they want to make.

dgm

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:31 AM

It's true, I don't have a clue about Darren's finances. But there certainly are other ways he can make money without being foolhardy with his health and our sport.

Fence2Fence

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:32 AM

100% in agreement with J Swan.

gully's pilot

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:36 AM

Deltawave isn't trying to ruin him financially, for heaven's sake. He can still teach, give clinics--but I join those who have some experience with brain injury and think he's beyond nuts and into the realm of delusional and selfish (or, perhaps, just brain injured!) to compete this soon. It only takes one split-second lapse on xc.

My sister had two very mild concussions as a sophomore in high school--neither rendered her unconscious, but they came within a two week period, and the second one messed her up for a year. I can't tell you how she struggled with high school, golf (her sport of choice), and life in general--it was awful.

A couple of years later I was knocked out for a few seconds following a fall at home (I was wearing an approved helmet, I'm glad to say). I grounded myself for two weeks and didn't jump for a month--it was about a week before I felt "normal."

What I find most disturbing is that the USEA can't sit him down on medical terms. I think we need to fix this--I'd be happy to go with BE's system as it seems logical and straightforward.

Thanks, Jill, for taking a stand with Darren. If I knew him I'd do it, too. But I can and will email the USEA.

Kim Bradley

throwurheart

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:42 AM

Hmmm, last I checked unless you're placing high at Rolex and the like, you don't get paid in this sport to show...? Not sure what the financial arrangements are of ULRs with their owners, but I would assume the bulk of their income comes from teaching, training, selling and clinics.

Of course, perhaps he's having an easier time compensating for the brain injury in the saddle rather than instructing students.

RunForIt

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:43 AM

Here's an idea...perhaps David and Kevin might sit down with Darren and explain the possible ramifications to the sport at large with him riding in a recognized event, AND REQUEST THAT HE NOT RIDE at this point. Hmmmm....leadership responsibility.

If riding Windfall around a prelim course makes Darren feel better, then he should by all means set up a course at home or at someone's farm who is willing to let Darren ride - make himself happy (will pray that Windfall is no worse for wear) and not put all of us at risk.

mademoiselle

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:45 AM

Surely you of all people would appreciate what the realities are. How many of your patients are doing things they shouldn't - BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. Because insurance doesn't pay everything - even the best insurance can leave a patient practically destitute for injuries or illness. Because they're in a profession where if they take any time for themselves - business goes away.

...
For most of us - eventing is a hobby - a very serious hobby. For others, it's their profession. He's not a basketball player making 13 million - he's got no lucrative contracts, teams fighting over him, advertisers throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at him for simply holding their product.

There are many people who are suffering from terrible illnesses or injuries and simply cannot sit at home for a year. And they can't afford to ease back in as slowly as they'd like to.

...

I dunno - some of you appear to be lacking compassion. I think it's too early for this man to return to competing (especially the way he's doing it). I also doubt he's as healed as he thinks he is.

But having seen friends struggle with devastating illnesses; I think I can appreciate what challenges he might be facing right now.

And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. :no:

I disagree with your post. As I said earlier, I had a bad fall begining of June and I decided to take it easy. And you know what, all my customers have been very understanding. How many of you would take horses/business away from a trainer that has always been good with you because he/she needs some time to recover from an injury ?
Did I mention that I also took 4 months of from December to March because I was pregnant.
And I'm just a local trainer ... It has been pretty hard financially, but I'm making it work. My barn is currently full and I have waiting list. All this despite the fact that I'm not going to event till august. I will probably show in dressage in the meantime.
We are not saying that Darren should not be riding, we are saying that competing 5 horses at a show 4 months after his accident is wrong. He doesn't have to show to pay the bills ... He can still train and teach to make money.

Since when, showing is what makes money ?
I know for a fact that he has several people helping him with his young horses, so why can't this people show them under his supervision ?

MaryKay

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:51 AM

Deltawave - I truly understand and even agree with your posts - but you're a doctor and a competitor.

Surely you of all people would appreciate what the realities are. How many of your patients are doing things they shouldn't - BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. Because insurance doesn't pay everything - even the best insurance can leave a patient practically destitute for injuries or illness. Because they're in a profession where if they take any time for themselves - business goes away.

This goes for pretty much all patients - not just Darren. How many cancer patients drag themselves into the office, vomiting in their car, in the bathroom, tired, susceptible to every little bug or virus - and keep doing it because they have bills to pay, they're out of sick leave, their boss is a jerk, etc.

For most of us - eventing is a hobby - a very serious hobby. For others, it's their profession. He's not a basketball player making 13 million - he's got no lucrative contracts, teams fighting over him, advertisers throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at him for simply holding their product.

There are many people who are suffering from terrible illnesses or injuries and simply cannot sit at home for a year. And they can't afford to ease back in as slowly as they'd like to.

Haven't any of you ever had to wade through the mountains of insurance paperwork, the denied claims, the appeals, the disappearing bank account - and cried yourself to sleep at night wondering how you're going to make it? If you're going to lose everything? How you're going to pay your bills?

I dunno - some of you appear to be lacking compassion. I think it's too early for this man to return to competing (especially the way he's doing it). I also doubt he's as healed as he thinks he is.

But having seen friends struggle with devastating illnesses; I think I can appreciate what challenges he might be facing right now.

And I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. :no:

Lacking compassion??? How many of us made contributions to the fund set up for him to assist him in his recovery and don't even know the man personally?

I understand what you are saying however, Darren, unlike a lot of others (that you have described above) in different professions, still has the capability of earning a living by teaching and coaching.

J Swan

Jul. 3, 2008, 11:51 AM

It's true, I don't have a clue about Darren's finances. But there certainly are other ways he can make money without playing fast and loose with his health and our sport.

Then by all means tell him how to support himself and pay probably tens of thousands in unpaid medical bills - and convince all his clients and sponsors to wait until the general public decides it's ok for this man to resume his profession.

What do y'all suggest? Delivering pizza? File clerk? Even teaching and clinics would require him to travel a great deal and work long hours - probably longer than he is now. And all by himself - with no friends to help him.

I wish nothing but the best for this man; and I fervently hope he has made the right decision for the right reasons. But I don't think he's being selfish or irresponsible and I don't think his behavior is outrageous. Questionable, yes.

Maybe he's just a person who got hurt badly and whether he likes it or not - has to go back to work. I've questioned the decisions of friends and family who have done that. (surgery, cancer, stroke) I've even thought that going back to work too soon hindered their recovery; or made it impossible for them to ever recover fully.

But knowing that their job (regardless of the law) may be in jeopardy, seeing the mountains of insurance paperwork, the unpaid bills...... I feel nothing but sadness and compassion. I'm just trying to walk a mile in his shoes. Every person's situation is different; every person has different finances. His unpaid bills are most likely enormous and still coming in. What I would do in his situation might be different than what he did, or what one of you might do. Some of you might even hang up your spurs. Some of you would probably just compete one horse - maybe at Training and call that a good start.

None of us knows the entire situation.

mademoiselle

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:01 PM

Even teaching and clinics would require him to travel a great deal and work long hours - probably longer than he is now. And all by himself - with no friends to help him.

Have you ever showed 5 horses at an event ????? I have done 3 and promised myself to never do it again. I was toasted ... Teaching lessons is by far much easier than riding Prelim' and young horses.

I was still teaching a week past my due date when I was pregnant, I was teaching with a badly sprained ankle, but I was not riding, much less showing!
There is more money to make when you give a clinic than going to a horse show. So, if money is his motivation (which I doubt), then he should be teaching.

And if teaching is too hard on him, because he is not 100% then he has no business horse showing.

dgm

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:08 PM

I'm just pointing out that riding this weekend isn't his SOLE means of making money. But it may well be his last, if he is pushing it and doing too much too soon. Clearly, you and I prioritize things differently. That is probably not going to change in the course of this thread. I'm okay with that.

Then by all means tell him how to support himself and pay probably tens of thousands in unpaid medical bills - and convince all his clients and sponsors to wait until the general public decides it's ok for this man to resume his profession.

What do y'all suggest? Delivering pizza? File clerk? Even teaching and clinics would require him to travel a great deal and work long hours - probably longer than he is now. And all by himself - with no friends to help him.

I wish nothing but the best for this man; and I fervently hope he has made the right decision for the right reasons. But I don't think he's being selfish or irresponsible and I don't think his behavior is outrageous. Questionable, yes.

Maybe he's just a person who got hurt badly and whether he likes it or not - has to go back to work. I've questioned the decisions of friends and family who have done that. (surgery, cancer, stroke) I've even thought that going back to work too soon hindered their recovery; or made it impossible for them to ever recover fully.

But knowing that their job (regardless of the law) may be in jeopardy, seeing the mountains of insurance paperwork, the unpaid bills...... I feel nothing but sadness and compassion. I'm just trying to walk a mile in his shoes. Every person's situation is different; every person has different finances. His unpaid bills are most likely enormous and still coming in. What I would do in his situation might be different than what he did, or what one of you might do. Some of you might even hang up your spurs. Some of you would probably just compete one horse - maybe at Training and call that a good start.

None of us knows the entire situation.

gully's pilot

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:11 PM

My husband went back to work two days after emergency surgery to repair a ruptured Achilles tendon. The average time off work from this injury is 54 days. Eight days after surgery my husband went back into the operating room as a surgeon--his main job. It was actually very brave of him--he was still in a lot of pain.

So I do understand the back-to-work mentality. I absolutely do. But guess what? An Achilles tendon, a broken bone, a torn ligament, is not a BRAIN. Brains don't heal as easily, as completely, or in any sort of a known fashion. Many people who know Darren have testified that his mental acuity is not all the way back. Many people with TBI experience have said that it's unreasonable for him to be back. We're in a crisis in our sport--if Darren goofs and he or his horse dies, the entire sport of eventing is in trouble. He's not just hurting himself, though truthfully that's bad enough. He's hurting everybody. For what? Do you really think Windfall's owner cares if his horse goes prelim?

J Swan

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:14 PM

Actually - I think we'd probably prioritize things the same way. I'd ease slowly back into competing. Heck - I'm easing slowly back into riding after I broke my back and had a mild concussion in April.

I think my definition of "easing back into it slowly" is different than Darren's. Much different. Not even in the same time zone; not even in the same solar system if you catch my drift.

dgm

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:17 PM

Point taken, J Swan. You might be right regarding his motivation. But I will still be holding my breath and keeping my fingers crossed till I hear that he is okay afterwards!

slc2

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:26 PM

i basically agree with j swan.

and my point earlier wasn't that i know alot about neurology. my point was that no one who is second guessing darren has any idea what his docs told him to do or what would be best for him.

i too have my own concerns any time someone goes back to work quickly.

however, i have heard that protocols for severe brain injuries have changed incredibly in the last few years and that people are coming out of incredible injuries in a condition no one could have imagined even a few years ago.

we saw a program a few years ago about a complete turnabout in traumatic brain injury treatment. the approach used to be 'wait and see' how the patient comes out of it. NOW...they get very aggressive, immediately treating swelling and even installing temporary shunts to let off pressure caused by fluid. they showed 3 cases on the program - one i believe was a child in a bike-car accident that should have, by past standards, wound up completely a vegatable or dead. in 4 days, he was conscious and talking. there were two other cases, both were unbelievably bad injuries and made an INCREDIBLE recovery. on the show they said the doctors involved struggled to get the protocols changed for certain types of TBI and that it was very difficult to do so, but that nowadays, doctors jump in and don't wait and see and the results in some injuries are nothing short of incredible.

i am not saying i know anything about neurology, so don't bother accusing me of that.

i am not saying i have any special non public information on mr darren, so don't bother accusing me of that.

but i do know that recent studies show it's very important to get back to work - the work one wants to do, because of the way nerve cells are 'recruited', there is very definitely a 'use it or lose it' component to healing.

there are several studies on pubmed that might be educational - if someone wants to investigate the subject rather than just attack someone who doesn't agree that darren is being irresponsible, careless and arrogant.

Anesthesiology. 2008 Jul;109(1):44-53.
PMID: 18580171 - types of anesthesia for combat brain injuries

Eur J Neurosci. 2008 Jun;27(11):2885-96. Epub 2008 Jun 6.
PMID: 18540884 [PubMed - in process] using NCAM (brain adhesion molecule, a peptide) to help heal traumatically damaged nerves

Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2008 May;89(5):896-903.
PMID: 18452739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] more problems in older persons recovering from TBI

Crit Care. 2008;12(2):R61. Epub 2008 Apr 30.
PMID: 18447940 [PubMed - in process] progesterone improves outcomes in TBI

there are 66 pages of 2-line entries on improvements in TBI therapy in Pubmed. there are 123 entries from the last 12 months.

what i am saying is there is reason to be very hopeful for darren to return to work and function very, very well - and in quite a short time frame.

Hidden

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:26 PM

Lets all hope that he stays safe and sound. That is all we can do at this moment. Jill has done the best anyone could do for a friend and let him know that others are concerned for his sake. Thank you for taking that bull by the horns. We can not know all the circumstances and at this point .. we can only hope for the best, he is one of the best riders out there so maybe this is easing back into competition. My heart is with him thru his rides.

riderboy

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:27 PM

JER

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:34 PM

I dunno - some of you appear to be lacking compassion. I think it's too early for this man to return to competing (especially the way he's doing it). I also doubt he's as healed as he thinks he is.

Does your definition of 'compassion' extend to Darren's horses as well?

The horse doesn't get a vote here and we all know too well that a bad decision can be catastrophic for the horse.

ValleyMiss

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:35 PM

J Swan

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:37 PM

Point taken, J Swan. You might be right regarding his motivation. But I will still be holding my breath and keeping my fingers crossed till I hear that he is okay afterwards!

Me too - and that goes for the rest of the competitors. Everyone keep their heels down and heads up. :)

deltawave

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:38 PM

He can still make a living, I'm pretty sure, without competing 3.5 months after a life-threatening injury. Why not just WAIT a little longer? What is the screaming hurry to take an Olympic horse around a Preliminary Horse Trial? If I owned a valuable horse like Windfall I sure as heck would want to keep him in the barn, covering mares, not out on a Prelim XC course with someone who's by all accounts NQR.

MaryKay

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:39 PM

[QUOTE=J Swan;3333744].

I dunno - some of you appear to be lacking compassion. I think it's too early for this man to return to competing (especially the way he's doing it). I also doubt he's as healed as he thinks he is.

Lacking compassion? Man, if not wanting to see him killed or reinjured, his horse killed or injured, the sport smeared (again) and have him set the role model tone of "I don't care what they say I'll show them" is lacking compassion for all of that then I'm not sure what compassion is. No one here (hopefully) is unsympathetic to his injuries or struggles. Don't confuse the two

Amen. How many on this thread have said they will be "holding their breath", crossing their fingers-hoping he gets around safely? Hard to enjoy a sport when you can't relax for fear of injury to horse or rider or both due to competitor exercising poor/impaired judgement.

J Swan

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:43 PM

What is the screaming hurry to take an Olympic horse around a Preliminary Horse Trial?

From other information that I've just been provided.... umm... how do I say this.... there may be... umm... other forces at work. I'll leave it at that as I'm not going to elaborate.

On that note - I'll bow out.

gillenwaterfarm

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:49 PM

I will be praying for there to be protection for him, and his horses, and that it keeps them both safe in the process.

I wonder if he is experiencing Olympic pressure from an outer source. Couldn't he and Windfall be grandfathered in due to thier record *together*, or would he have to re-qualify all the way from the ground up with him?

What are the rules around this?

tle

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:54 PM

From other information that I've just been provided.... umm... how do I say this.... there may be... umm... other forces at work. I'll leave it at that as I'm not going to elaborate.

On that note - I'll bow out.

That's just teasing.

ravenclaw

Jul. 3, 2008, 12:57 PM

It is very doubtful that Darren is making any money by riding those 5 horses this weekend. His income is going to come from lessons and clinics. Things he can still do without eventing. I understand that he must want to get back into this, to get his life back to normal. But I just think that riding 5 horses not even 4 months after that serious of an injury is dangerous.

I wish him well, I hope that he has a good weekend. I just feel that it is much too soon.
Darren is NOT competing this weekend. He has horses entered in Genesee Valley Hunt Horse Trials (July 11 - 13). Then 2 of those same horses are entered at Stuart Horse Trials (July 17 - 20).

But holy crap...is he really planning to compete 5 horses at GVHT?? There is 1 entered at Training, 2 at Prelim, and 2 in the Young Event Horse 5-Year-Old Division. What's wrong with starting slowly and just competing ONE horse the first time out?

vxf111

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:00 PM

Not an eventer here, though my trainer is. I am very worried for Darren. I am not sure, even if he's feeling physically better, that he's really in the kind of frame of mind where he can rationally make decisions like "do I risk re-injuring myself and my horses by competing before I've 100 recovered." Just because you CAN and are capable of doing something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Badger

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:16 PM

I wonder if he is experiencing Olympic pressure from an outer source. Couldn't he and Windfall be grandfathered in due to thier record *together*, or would he have to re-qualify all the way from the ground up with him?

What are the rules around this?

There is no Olympic pressure from any source, he is not in any way currently in contention for the 2008 Olympics.

cyriz's mom

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:17 PM

I hope to hell that I'm reading waaayyyyyy between lines incorrectly. Surely, there is no way in hell that ANYONE (ie, the powers that be) are thinking/encouraging Darren could somehow end up in Hong Kong competing????

Please tell me that I'm smoking crack. Just the thought, makes me sick to my stomach of what the highest levels of competition of our beloved sport has become.

I am in the camp that believes he should not be competing yet...waaaayyyyy too much downside for next to no upside. I also believe that the USEA/USEF needs to step in and tell him not yet that it's not good for him or for the sport.

I also think anyone with an injury like his should be required to compete only one horse, perhaps HC, at "x" number of competitions before being allowed to compete more.

I also do not think him competing is for money. As others have said, the money comes from training, sales, lessons/clinics, coaching.

Copper

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:32 PM

Gry2Yng

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:40 PM

Just want to express my the conflicted feelings I have over this situation. I am an advocate of each individual making their own decisions and limiting the rules, but I am just not sure I can support Darren's right to enter as he chooses.

I can also empathize with his desire to get back "in the tack". After my daughter was born I wanted nothing more than to get on and ride/compete.

So sad that we have come to a place and time where this situation has resulted in a 200 post thread and the possibility of more rules and oversight.

Well done Jill. I was very impressed with DOC's comments in the COTH about his discussion with Kim S. Would he tell her if she were riding dangerously? I think we now have that obligation to each other.

My heart aches for Darren and our sport. I could probably support the decision to ride one horse at prelim if those who are close to him can support it. I really don't think I can support the idea of riding 5 under any circumstances, given the big picture.

3dazey

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:45 PM

Copper, I believe you are referring to Dun To A T. No one else has had the ride on Windfall. Robert Dover rode him for a benefit for Darren, just a brief deal for a fundraiser.

gully's pilot

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:45 PM

Again, riding after pregnancy is different entirely from riding after a brain injury.
I rode two weeks after my daughter was born. It was a little soon, but not much, and the odds of my actually injuring myself (as opposed to just aching) or my horse were the same as if I hadn't given birth. Darren can't say that; it's not true.

silver2

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:48 PM

I don't think it's at appropriate to call this person "selfish" or assign motives to him so soon after a TBI. That's just my opinion.

However in regards to the USEA.......... it is long past time they started regulating safety in this sport in a meaningful way because otherwise, rest assured, someone else will. And that will be the insurance companies, personal injury lawyers or legislators.

The USEA needs to take a stance on the issue of unfit, unprepared and unqualified competitors at Prelim and above. They need to be open and upfront about how this is a problem and how they are going to deal with it.

It is not fair to the event organizers, sponsors, land owners and responsible individuals who make up the majority of the dues paying members to do otherwise.

LAZ

Jul. 3, 2008, 01:56 PM

Wow slc - a pubmed search - aren't you talented.

I wonder if perhaps TH doesn't want Windfall sitting around in the breeding shed and barn while Darren heals - didn't someone else have the ride on him shortly after Darren was hurt, but then scratched?

Honestly, I've stayed out of this until now, but don't you think this reply is snarky on all counts? What purpose was served by posting it?

I suspect TH is doing what he feels to be right to support a rider that he has an excellent partnership with. I don't for a minute believe that this has anything at all to do with Windfall being in the public eye, the horse is a magnificent animal and has nothing left to prove to anyone. TH has been a staunch supporter of the industry in many ways and as such, should get a little more respect.

I don't agree with anyone getting back into a high-risk sport so soon after a TBI as I see a much greater potential for a bad outcome than a good outcome.

Last I checked Darren is a big boy and he's within the rules to do as he is.

I don't like it as I do not want to see the horses or our sport put at further risk (for injury or criticism).

If we don't like this I suggest concerned individuals lobby to the USEA and USEF to put rules in effect that will prevent riders (especially high profile riders) from returning to competition too soon after head injuries. In the meantime perhaps the selectors/officials/team coach could put pressure on riders that have had serious head injuries to not put a sport that is already in trouble further in danger.

4Martini

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:09 PM

I have no knowledge of the situation - but what if Darren's owners banded together and said we're here for you whenever you're ready and are going to enter our horses so if you feel up to it you can ride them and if not they'll be there the next competition. Just having entries doesn't mean he'll show.

Just a thought...

Larksmom

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:16 PM

Do you suppose Darren is reading this post? I hope if he isn't one of his friends should direct his attention here. I am also of the opinion that he should not ride in competition. Besides, IF he is riding Windfall at prelim, surely he would be riding HDC anyway, right?

Copper

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:18 PM

Honestly, I've stayed out of this until now, but don't you think this reply is snarky on all counts? What purpose was served by posting it?

I suspect TH is doing what he feels to be right to support a rider that he has an excellent partnership with. I don't for a minute believe that this has anything at all to do with Windfall being in the public eye, the horse is a magnificent animal and has nothing left to prove to anyone. TH has been a staunch supporter of the industry in many ways and as such, should get a little more respect.

I don't agree with anyone getting back into a high-risk sport so soon after a TBI as I see a much greater potential for a bad outcome than a good outcome.

Last I checked Darren is a big boy and he's within the rules to do as he is.

I don't like it as I do not want to see the horses or our sport put at further risk (for injury or criticism).

If we don't like this I suggest concerned individuals lobby to the USEA and USEF to put rules in effect that will prevent riders (especially high profile riders) from returning to competition too soon after head injuries. In the meantime perhaps the selectors/officials/team coach could put pressure on riders that have had serious head injuries to not put a sport that is already in trouble further in danger.

Well, yes the first part was snarky because the poster didn't really offer anything helpful.

As for the second part - perhaps I should not have referred to one horse or owner (as I have no knowledge of that particular situation), but what I was trying to suggest is that if I had an upper level horse (any of the horses Darren rides), and particularly if it is a stallion that is just now starting to have offspring showing, the horses' competition record is very important. While I may have all of the desire in the world not to break up a great partnership, I would have to consider just how long my investment (horse) could stay out of the competition field without it hurting my investment.
I am not saying that is the case here, but I certainly would have it in mind if any of the horses were mine. I think we all know that once one loses the ride on a possible Olympic mount, you don't get it back as both rider and mount must qualify. In hind sight, I think that this situation is probably less applicable to Windfall as he could quite properly retire to the breeding shed, having little left to prove, but what about his other mounts?
He may feel pressure from his clients.

SmallHerd

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:23 PM

Maybe he is getting pressure from his sponsors. Not necessarily to compete, but asking WHEN he will be back out there again. I can only guess those sponsorships are worth a ton of dough to a rider. I wish Darren and his horses the best of luck and hope all return home safe and sound.

blackwly

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:39 PM

i basically agree with j swan.

however, i have heard that protocols for severe brain injuries have changed incredibly in the last few years and that people are coming out of incredible injuries in a condition no one could have imagined even a few years ago.

we saw a program a few years ago about a complete turnabout in traumatic brain injury treatment. the approach used to be 'wait and see' how the patient comes out of it. NOW...they get very aggressive, immediately treating swelling and even installing temporary shunts to let off pressure caused by fluid. they showed 3 cases on the program - one i believe was a child in a bike-car accident that should have, by past standards, wound up completely a vegatable or dead. in 4 days, he was conscious and talking. there were two other cases, both were unbelievably bad injuries and made an INCREDIBLE recovery. on the show they said the doctors involved struggled to get the protocols changed for certain types of TBI and that it was very difficult to do so, but that nowadays, doctors jump in and don't wait and see and the results in some injuries are nothing short of incredible.

i am not saying i know anything about neurology, so don't bother accusing me of that.

i am not saying i have any special non public information on mr darren, so don't bother accusing me of that.

but i do know that recent studies show it's very important to get back to work - the work one wants to do, because of the way nerve cells are 'recruited', there is very definitely a 'use it or lose it' component to healing.

what i am saying is there is reason to be very hopeful for darren to return to work and function very, very well - and in quite a short time frame.

I'm sorry, but unfortunately you are very wrong on this point. Despite what you may see on well-televised programs of "medical miracles" and the like, we are treating traumatic brain injuries in almost the exact same way we have for the past 15 years. There has been some tweaking to our national guidelines for TBI managment in level 1 trauma, but unfortunately this revolution you describe is not accurate. This is an area of medicine where we do not do very well by our patients, despite all our efforts. We are treating these patients with the same medications (pentobarb, mannitol, 3% saline, dilantin) we did 20 years ago. We are also preforming the same procedures (ICP monitoring, External Ventricular Drains - the "shunt" you speak of - decompressive craniotomies, etc.) that have been preformed for at least that long. To say that patients are now doing incredibly well after these injuries is very, very wrong.

I recognize that you're not a MD...I just want to clarify this as it paints a very misleading picture. TBI is a very serious problem. There is no miracle cure. These patients face a lifetime of cognitive and behavioral adjustment.

poltroon

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:40 PM

But obviously he has to be riding pretty heavily right now... don't you think it's obvious whether he will be able to do it or not long before he hits the start box?

No. Or at least, not necessarily.

Fatigue is a huge issue. After a brain injury, you may still be able to do a task, but it can take enormously more focus and energy to do something you consider "normal." For example, even something as simple as sitting in a noisy room takes quite a bit of energy and focus, to thread out the pieces of conversation you want from the noises you don't. So, someone might appear fine at the start but tire much more quickly than usual.

After a brain injury, it appears that some neural connections get misrouted - thus the reported microwaving coffee in the refrigerator, doing simple everyday tasks in the wrong order, etc. Not every time, mind you: just sometimes. I suspect being tired is a factor. So the net effect is that you unpredictably make spectacularly wrong responses in situations that used to be automatic. In my case, I would immediately recognize my mistake, chuckle, and fix it - but you can imagine that on a cross country course that the situation could go bad before you got to the chuckle stage.

Debbie

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:41 PM

Wow. I'm late to this, but good on ya, Jill. If I were an organizer, I'd hate to see that entry come across my desk at this stage in the game.

There's no small irony in the fact that Darren was injured on a prelim horse. Clearly no rider qualification issue there, but rider qualifications are a cornerstone of the "solutions." He's arguably THE most fitness conscious UL rider in the U.S.; and yet in the wake of his injury, rider fitness makes the list of focus areas from the Safety Summit. I believe Darren's voice would have been one of the loudest defending the RH course had he not been silenced by his injuries and sure enough UL course design is not the focus of current efforts. Darren has historically been dismissive of the "smurf" contingent and where is the action on safety being focused: on the smurfs first. Irony abounds.

I'm a chunky, middle-aged, ammy who has benched myself for this season to get more saddle time across country to meet my "personal responsibility" commitment to our sport. Yet, no one has the "authority" to bench Darren for the his own good or the good of the sport.

Look closely folks, this is where the paradigm shift has to happen. Darren has been the focus of a lot of venom on this forum and it's a tribute to everyone's concern and compassion for his life-changing injury that this thread has stayed so positive (really, do a search for DC and read some old threads, folks are really keeping their gloves on here and in a wonderful spirit of compassion), but if he's going to get back in the game full speed, it's time for some tough love. I think he should be relieved of any position on the Safety Cmte (whichever one he's on; I'm too confused to tell at his point, Reed! ;)) and I think as a once (and hopefully) future Team member, he should receive a letter from CMP questioning his return to competition and with so many horses and being informed he is officially on the Watch List.

That said, I wish the man nothing but the best.

andalusia

Jul. 3, 2008, 02:59 PM

Ajierene

Jul. 3, 2008, 03:00 PM

Personally, I think the concern on these threads is important and accurate.

As far as having to go back to competing because he has bills to pay, paying medical bills is often very misunderstood by the general masses. There are organizations such as the Network for Injured Equestrians, Easter Seals, the State Department of Social and Health Services (may have slightly different names in different states), the Consumer Credit Counseling Service, among others.

Individual requirements to access help vary.

Also, as long as you are paying the bills, you will never end up delinquent. Hospitals also will often cut bills in half for patients. Laws are also in place to limit the interest charged. Hospital bills are like credit card bills - no minimum payment, pay what you can. You are not required to pay them in a certain time frame. You can pay them $5.00 a month for the rest of your life and never be delinquent.

The biggest problem with hospital bills is that the surgical team, anesthesiologist, room charges, are all separate bills. This is where the Consumer Credit Counseling Service can help consolidate the bills.

I broke my ankle several years ago with no insurance and the bills (though much smaller than Darren's) seemed fairly overwhelming at first, but a little research goes a long way. I paid anywhere from $100 to $5 a month until the bills were paid off.

What worries me is not that Darren is back in the saddle - I agree with those that say if he needs money, clinics and lessons are going to give him a lot more than competing.

It is not even as much that Darren wants to compete, it is good to get out and see what competing will do to him physically.

It is that he is taking - what was the last count, 5? - horses to a competition. If he wants to get out, take Windfall, do a training level, see how it is. Go from there. There will always be other shows, there is always next season, what is the rush?

RAyers

Jul. 3, 2008, 03:34 PM

I've read this thread. I see all sides but I have to say it is one thing to express an opinion and another to try to circumvent another's decision? He is not a boy. He is a man, with years of experience, with superior medical people and the advice that goes with it. Many of you know this man; I do not. But he has made entries. Entries to not require him to participate. Has it occurred to you that he has made those entries to hold "a place?" As the date approaches (which is not this weekend), he will take his own "pulse", consult with his doctors, and make up his mind to compete? But so many feel it is their business to second-guess his doctors, send emails, and you are, therefore, undermining this man. I do hope so that he is not reading this thread.

Undermining? Undermining? Let's see, there are doctors, including neurosugeoins, emergency medical personnel, and even ULRs on this thread who feel that this action is foolish. It is Darren who is undermining the sport if anything happens (g-d forbid).

It is time to stop thinking about each individual and their "rights" and to start thinking about eventing as a sport of many people. It is time to be a student of the SPORT and not of riders. Darren has proven he is NOT a student of the sport and is more concerned about riding, thus he is inapproriate to serve as a person in the administarion of the sport.

If you want to term it "undermining" have at it. I will undermine Darren EVERY chance I get, if it means he lives a nice long successful life.

Reed

Reed