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View Full Version : Breeding a trakehner mare to an appendix stallion...too unorthodox?



warmbloodzrock
Jun. 17, 2008, 08:56 AM
I plan on eventually breeding my mare and my trainer owns an amazing appendix stallion. He has a great mind, perfect conformation (ok, no horse is perfect...but hes pretty close!) and is a great mover/jumper. He has all the traits I'd like to improve in my mare. However, would crossing a trake w/ an appendix just be too strange?? :confused: I'm sure die hard warmblood fans would think its nuts but if he compliments her so well, should it matter what breed he is? I wouldn't care if the baby doesn't get approved by the ATA and its not like Im crossing her w/ a gaited horse or anything like that! What are your thoughts?

acottongim
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:01 AM
My old schoolmaster (now retired "uncle" to all the babies) is a TK/QH cross. Judy Yancy bred him (he is in his late 20's now). He is wonderful and no one ever guesses that he is anything less than purebred TK. He is registered in the D book with the ATA as a part TK.

cdalt
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:17 AM
There were 3 full siblings in our area that turned out to be great amateur friendly dressage horses - they were by the trakehner stallion Martini and out of an appendix QH mare. If you are planning to keep the offspring and don't care about registration, then go for it!

mistyjewell
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:23 AM
I agree, especially if it's for yourself, or you don't mind keeping it until it's undersaddle, i say go for it!

And really, if you think about it, TKs (IMHO) tend to be built the most like TBs, and have a lot of TB and Arab in their backgrounds. Those breeds tend to cross really well with QH and Appendix, so really, I don't think it's a strech at all.

So good luck, and if you do decide, don't forget to post pics of the baby when you have it *grin*

pintopiaffe
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:34 AM
If you were asking the other way, "What WB stallion could I put an Appendix mare to?" You would get several of us answering Trakehner.

It sounds as if you are doing it for the right reasons. A *wanted* foal is never the wrong breed or color. A sound, talented foal with good conformation *will* sell if needed, regardless of papers.

talloaks
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:36 AM
Back in 1994 I bred an appendix quarter horse mare, 16-1 mostly TB, to a Hanoverian stallion and got the nicest colt!! He temperament was suburb, he had fabulous suspension and could jump the moon, ( and still does to my knowledge) but there was a throw back somehow and he ended up being only 15-1 or maybe he finally made 15-2. But he was adored by his young riders and won ever flat class ever entered and championships galore. Nice nice boy!! Just be aware that the foal may be a throw back and be smaller than you expect.:)

Iron Horse Farm
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:36 AM
My only concern being the horse's welfare, you cannot predict if you will be financially stable, physically able to have horses 20 years from now. IMHO (and I'll probably get flamed for it), don't breed unless you are producing something that someone else will want if for some reason you are unable to keep it. The problem with first generation hybrids is that you may NOTget a nice combination of both sire and dam, but instead get something you are not anticipating. If you look at the sale sites, there are a whole lot of Trak crosses selling for less than a good stud fee.

siegi b.
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:09 AM
Generally I would say it's up to the mare owner to pick a stallion that suits her mare, however, there are a couple of red flags in how the OP presented her situation....

One, the stallion was a convenient choice (owned by her trainer), the justification as to how he would complement her mare came later.

Two, what happens when the resulting foal is a filly? Everybody wants to register fillies because you can actually breed them, and that's when the next post shows up on this BB.... Why is it so difficult to get this filly registered?

Just my 2 cents worth...

pintopiaffe
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:18 AM
Any foal out of at least one OSB/Approved Trakehner parent may be registered in the "D" book.

I knew there'd be naysayers (hell, I'm not sure *I* should be breeding in this economy!) But, were it turned around, probably 20 stallion owners would chime in as to why their WB stallion would be perfect for an Appendix mare.

Just sayin'

Oakstable
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:33 AM
The first foal I produced was out of an appendix mare by a Trakehner stallion. That was 1989. First Amendment was very talented and competed well against all the imports in triple rated shows in SoCal. He was Training Level Reserve Champion for the ATA - that's no. 2 in the nation - in 1995. He stayed competitive through 1st and 2nd level, then went into low level eventing.

I bred the mare two more times and never got the same quality, even with a full sister.

You can get a nice horse with this cross, tho. The risk is the possibility you may need to sell the horse. A gelding, fine, no problem, but a filly could be a problem. Mine were sold in the early 90s and this is a far different market.

But people are crossing Morgans with WBs so ...

TwoDreamRides
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:36 AM
We have two TrakxQH crosses right now. One is two and one is a yearling. All of my Hunter friends are frothing at the mouth for them to come of riding age... they've got good movement, good looks,and great temperaments.

Feuervogel [Feuertanzer x Skipa Chevy Nova] pictured as a yearling
http://timberridgebreeding.tripod.com/id12.html


Tiberon [Feron x Skipa Chevy Nova] pictured as a 3month old
http://timberridgebreeding.tripod.com/id19.html

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:51 AM
We have crossed QHs and Apex QHs with a warmbood and the cross has been super. Watch out for the known QH problems though, to make sure they are not included in the one you have selected (small feet, navicular, etc)

facinated
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:52 AM
I would try it. The best broodmare I have had so far was an apdx. Trakehner horses actualy look like apdx horses alot. Breeding similar types is a good thing if they are both nice horses.

spacely
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:56 AM
My best horse to date was a Trak/Appendix cross. I loved her. She was by Pregelstrand & if I could have cloned her, I would have in a hot second.

warmbloodzrock
Jun. 17, 2008, 12:32 PM
Yes, the baby would be for me. I also have thought about the chance that if it does not come out in such a way that will suit my riding needs then I will keep it anyway. I do have the financial means to do this. However, I'm not too worried since I would be breeding to produce an ammy owner hunter horse and its not like I'm trying to get an olympic prospect!

My mare is very nice and I would absolutely love anything that came from her. Shes been a mom before so shes experienced and VERY fertile. Not to mention has a GREAT work ethic, is athletic, good mover/jumper, good bone structure, good feet, and beautiful to boot! I've also worked in the breeding scene and know enough to feel comfortable breeding my mare.

Convenience is NOT the reason I like this stallion. You must understand I work and live on the property where I keep my mare and the stallion is there also. Therefore, I work and handle this stallion EVERY day and I am MORE than impressed with how much of a gentleman he is. Like I said before, he is also built nearly perfectly and has all the traits that would really compliment my mare. (IE: She is a bit long backed and he is short backed, she is a bit straight through the hocks and he has nice angles...etc.)

The two have the same above-mentioned positive features so I think it could be a really nice cross! :)

Fairview Horse Center
Jun. 17, 2008, 01:12 PM
She is a bit long backed and he is short backed, she is a bit straight through the hocks and he has nice angles...etc

Be careful with the differences. If a longer backed horse comes with a longer neck and hip, they are nicely balanced. The same can be said of a shorter backed horse with shorter neck and hip. The problem comes in because you don't get an "average". You get parts from each, so you can get short neck, long back, and short hip - a very unathletic horse.

The 2nd example with the hocks is more what you are looking for - to correct a fault back to correct, not the other extreme.

Foxtrot's
Jun. 17, 2008, 03:33 PM
If the animals in question are really nice, there would be no problem.
Trouble is, some people, especially if they are new to horses and mad keen, dream of an unrealistic future and breed anything with ovaries/testacles.

I often think that on this continent there are some really good athletic horses with good minds that get overlooked because of the purpose-bred horses from Europe. But the QH, Saddlebred, TB/Arab
may very well produce a wonderful horse, but nobody puts them in the mix. Someday there may be an American Sporthorse.

vxf111
Jun. 17, 2008, 03:37 PM
Is there a website for the stallion? I am always interested to see good QH/Appendix stallions in the area. I love a good QH.

pintopiaffe
Jun. 17, 2008, 03:56 PM
But the QH, Saddlebred, TB/Arab
may very well produce a wonderful horse, but nobody puts them in the mix. Someday there may be an American Sporthorse.

Just for the record, some of us do. And are winning and competing respectably against Euro WB's. :winkgrin:

warmbloodzrock
Jun. 17, 2008, 05:49 PM
Be careful with the differences. If a longer backed horse comes with a longer neck and hip, they are nicely balanced. The same can be said of a shorter backed horse with shorter neck and hip. The problem comes in because you don't get an "average". You get parts from each, so you can get short neck, long back, and short hip - a very unathletic horse.

The 2nd example with the hocks is more what you are looking for - to correct a fault back to correct, not the other extreme.

Well, I certainly do not want to breed her to another long backed horse. My mare has a long back and a long neck. The stallion is short backed but has a nice neck (not short but not too long). One of his babies were just born 4 weeks ago, out of a BIG TB mare who looks like a WB. She has an average size legnth back and a long neck like my mare and the baby has a long neck with a short back. So hopefully get back a little shorter than my mare w/ the long neck too.

VXF, there is no website :( However, if any of you attended the PA horse expo this year he was there. Hes grey and is named "Dancin til Dawn". My trainer rode him several times while up there. I will have to post some pics of him! :yes:

He is a VERY versatile stallion who has done everything from reining, barrel racing, western pleasure to dressage, eventing and 4ft jumpers. My trainer believes horses should handle like sports cars and be able to do a bit of everything.

My mare can jump 5ft with ease (even though I stick to 3ft MAXIMUM because I would like to stay alive! :lol:) and is bred to death with a LOOOONG line of famous trakehner jumpers.

avezan
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:56 PM
I have an appendix mare that has had 5 warmblood babies. All have turned out to be phenomenal horses. Well, ok, the last one is just 2 months old, but I already want to keep her as my next riding horse. It seems that lots of people breed appendix mares to warmblood stallions, so I don't see why breeding a warmblood mare to an appendix stallion would not be a good thing. Especially if you can register the foal with ATA! I did not know that they did that if the stallion wasn't approved. Even if it is in appendix D, it is great to have papers! Go for it.

lilypondlane
Jun. 18, 2008, 12:00 AM
In 1994, I bought my daughter a 6-year old QH/Hanoverian gelding. His dam was a 16 h. QH mare, his sire the gorgeous Hanoverian stallion, Arklicht. This horse has been an awesome and versatile mount and a joy to have in our barn. He did the H/J's very successfully as a youngster, was evented by a Pony Clubber, and was trained to second level dressage by my dressage instructor. There's no doubt in my mind that he could have been a high level jumper as well. At 20, he still looks and acts like the 6-year old who came into our lives all those years ago. Great combination, IMO. Substitute Trakehner for Hanoverian, even better.

Ladybug Hill
Jun. 18, 2008, 12:01 AM
I feel that with careful consideration these horses actually might have more stability as far as job/home/etc than some of the more "well bred" individuals. With careful selection and still keeping similar body types in mind when crossing you can get a very nice horse with an incredible temperament. Even if the horse is only talented enough to do "local" stuff, they are in fair demand if they can pack around the lesser talented humans! :D I think the QH temperament can add so much to the mix. I have considered adding about a 1/4 QH into something bred for myself now that I am an "adult" amateur! :lol: