PDA

View Full Version : New barn, harder footing, Ouchy feet..



Sannois
Jun. 15, 2008, 05:42 PM
A little help please. My guy has been barefoot for 3 years. But this new barn has rather stony and hard footing. And he is ouchy. Especially after he was just trimmed a few days ago.
He was always on sand and very soft arenas.
Now hes fine on grass, but boy he was like a woman at the beach the first day of summer today. :winkgrin:
Do I have to resort to front shoes?? His feet have imprved so much since being barefoot. Hes not competing anymore, so I like him shoeless.
Question is, do any of those hoof toughners work??

JHUshoer20
Jun. 15, 2008, 05:54 PM
A little help please. My guy has been barefoot for 3 years. But this new barn has rather stony and hard footing. And he is ouchy. Especially after he was just trimmed a few days ago.
He was always on sand and very soft arenas.
Now hes fine on grass, but boy he was like a woman at the beach the first day of summer today. :winkgrin:
Do I have to resort to front shoes?? His feet have imprved so much since being barefoot. Hes not competing anymore, so I like him shoeless.
Question is, do any of those hoof toughners work??
Minimally,
Get the horse shod. All around would be even better yet.
George

Thomas_1
Jun. 15, 2008, 05:57 PM
How long have you had him at the new place? If its not long then you might want to give it a week or so and see if he's improved at all. Otherwise I'd suggest you get him shod though personally speaking I wouldn't just do the front feet.

The hardeners can help to an extent if the ground is very dry as they tend to dry the soles out. However this time of year I wouldn't have thought it was that.

LMH
Jun. 15, 2008, 06:27 PM
Minimally,
Get the horse shod. All around would be even better yet.
George

Yes all horses should be shod at birth.

Simkie
Jun. 15, 2008, 06:31 PM
Durasole works great for this sort of thing. I would certainly give that a try.

Dalemma
Jun. 15, 2008, 06:58 PM
I had a TB come to board at my place.....he came from hogfuel to my sand/gravel paddock.......he was ouchy for about 3 weeks and was fine after that ........their feet just need time to adjust to the new footing.

Dalemma

Daydream Believer
Jun. 15, 2008, 07:34 PM
Consider a pair of hoof boots when you work him. They are a valid alternative to shoes in some situations.

Sannois
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
Minimally,
Get the horse shod. All around would be even better yet.
George
of Sarcasm??
I am not privy to the Shoeing threads, though I have heard tell of them!
He has been there for a few months.
He was fine until farrier trimmed him day before yesterday, now hes ouchy on the stoney gravel.
I never found the Venice Turpentine to do much good.

Nezzy
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:10 PM
i agree with shoes.

Sannois
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:13 PM
i agree with shoes.
So many so quick to resort to shoes.
IS there a reason behind your thinking?
Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well.
Did I mention that he is retired?? and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?

Thomas_1
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:22 PM
So many so quick to resort to shoes. There's only 2 suggested that you quickly go to shoes. Meaning more respondents didn't.

Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well. Didn't you say though that there wasn't rocky ground where he was before? That there the terrain was grass. If so its clear that when he's on an easy surface that its easy for him but if he's on little sharp stones it hurts like heck.

I guess you could move him back if you want him to remain barefoot. ;)


Did I mention that he is retired?? No but you said he was struggling on the terrain. If its an elderly horse, IMO its more important to prevent him limping about sooner rather than later because you don't want him putting unequal or compensatory strain on older limbs and muscular skeletal structure and running the risk of secondary joint disease.


and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?
But that isn't retired! Is he sound when you're riding him out?

How long has he been at the new place?

JHUshoer20
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:30 PM
So many so quick to resort to shoes.
IS there a reason behind your thinking? Perhaps because many years of experience tells us it's in the best interests of the horse.


Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well.
Excellent, you've identified the cause. Bet if you took him back where he came from his ouchiness would disappear:yes:


Did I mention that he is retired?? and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?
Yes you did, however trail riding a few times a week is not retired. Is probably much harder on the feet than any manicured riding ring.

Get the horse a set of shoes. He'll thank you for it:winkgrin:
George

HiddenStars826
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:47 PM
My suggestion would be to give him some time on the new, harder footing, and make sure he is actually moving on it and not standing still. His feet need to adjust to the change in footing, some horses it takes longer than others.

If he's been barefoot for a while and you don't want to go immediately to shoes, then don't. You said that he was fine before he got trimmed. To me, this would indicate that perhaps the farrier did a bit too much this time. Was this his first trim since going to this new place?
I would give him a bit more time to get used to the footing, and see if he improves as he grows more hoof back as well. If he is still a bit ouchy, it might be worth looking into boots for him. The cost of a pair of boots is the equivalent of two shoeing bills in my area, but the boots can last much longer. You can find a slightly used pair for a reduced price, and if you find that they don't work, chances are you'll be able to sell them again.

Daydream Believer
Jun. 15, 2008, 08:50 PM
Sannois,

If he is semi retired and only in light work...and probably only going to be sore for a few days after his trim, boots really can be a nice economical alternative to shoes. When you don't need them, don't use them. Unlike shoes you can take them off and they will last a long time for light use.

Also, you might mention to your farrier/trimmer that he was a bit sore following this trim and perhaps he/she can be a bit more conservative with the trim next time. That is the sort of information your hoof care practitioner should know so they can adjust what they are doing if needed.

BarbB
Jun. 15, 2008, 09:26 PM
I generally keep my horses shod, but I have pulled shoes for the winter or extended rehab etc and they often are footsore for a while while they adjust. I would think moving from sandy footing to hard footing is similar.
If you like having him barefoot, I would give it a little time and see if he adjusts, maybe with the help of something to toughen up his soles. Plain iodine can help.
If he can't adjust, then yep, you are going to have to shoe him or move back to a place with soft footing. It's not fair to have him mincing around on sore feet just to keep him barefoot.

sublimequine
Jun. 15, 2008, 10:02 PM
I'm a BIG fan of Durasole. Used it with an admittedly VERY skeptical opinion of it (honestly, what topical is really gonna help THAT much?), and holy cow.. it DOES work. Maresie went from tip-toeing and ooching and ouching over gravel, to being able to walk across it without much problem at all. Now if I want to RIDE on the gravel, I throw on a pair of hoof boots. It's been a good solution for me, but of course won't work for everyone. :)

Dune
Jun. 15, 2008, 10:24 PM
You can give Keratex a try, it's the best stuff out there in my opinion. However, if you've been at this place for a few months, that's plenty of time for him to have adjusted. Your farrier may have taken a bit too much off this time, mention it to him/her the next time they come out. I wouldn't want my oldster to be sore for too much longer, you may create some compensatory problems. Also, riding out on ungroomed trails can be even harder for them than riding in groomed arenas.

JHUshoer20
Jun. 15, 2008, 10:25 PM
Hey Thomas!

It's been almost 5 hours I think this might be a record!:D
George

deltawave
Jun. 15, 2008, 10:29 PM
I'd wait a week or so, see if he toughens up a little. Maybe the trim was a little close, especially if he's been there a while and only seems sore just recently.

I've used Venice Turpentine with so-so results. Formalin, if you can get it, is a pretty good "deadener" of the sole, but nothing I'd want to use more than very occasionally.

I'd personally get a pair of Boa boots for riding, leave him barefoot the rest of the time if you can. I've got nothing at all against shoes, but for a mostly-retired horse I'd simply avoid the rocks, go with some boots, or give him a week off after trimming and see if that helps.

sublimequine
Jun. 15, 2008, 10:32 PM
I'd wait a week or so, see if he toughens up a little. Maybe the trim was a little close, especially if he's been there a while and only seems sore just recently.

I've used Venice Turpentine with so-so results. Formalin, if you can get it, is a pretty good "deadener" of the sole, but nothing I'd want to use more than very occasionally.

I'd personally get a pair of Boa boots for riding, leave him barefoot the rest of the time if you can. I've got nothing at all against shoes, but for a mostly-retired horse I'd simply avoid the rocks, go with some boots, or give him a week off after trimming and see if that helps.

Why do you suggest the Boas, specifically? I'm curious! :)

JSO
Jun. 15, 2008, 11:32 PM
I have had a similar problem with my mare, although it took a little longer for her to become sore. I think her feet were a little soft from the last barn and when she was on harder footing at home they were easy to wear down too farm and get bruised. I debated on shoeing her, but tried Cavallo horse boots. They work great for out situation! She is on grass all day, but the walk to the pasture is down the street so she has to walk over gravel and pavement to get there. It was very painful for her without the boots, but she goes right over them with no problem with the boots. I also have been using tough stuff on her feet. I only use the boots for the walk over and home. I did this for 2 weeks and then tried her without the boots to see how she would do over the rocks and and she was about 80% better. :)

LarkspurCO
Jun. 16, 2008, 12:47 AM
Now hes fine on grass, but boy he was like a woman at the beach the first day of summer today. :winkgrin:

Sounds like a pair of flip-flops are in order.:winkgrin:

merrygoround
Jun. 16, 2008, 07:40 AM
He has been there for a few months.
He was fine until farrier trimmed him day before yesterday, now hes ouchy on the stoney gravel.
I never found the Venice Turpentine to do much good.

If that be the case I would suspect that your farrier wasn't thinking when he trimmed him. Surely this wasn't his first trim in 3 mo? Or did you change farriers?

He should toughen up again. Pray that he doesn't end up stone bruising and abscessing.

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 07:54 AM
To answer a few questions..
He was last trimmed April 5th. A bit long on appointment but.. I moved out a ways. And it was hard to coordinate. Same farrier forever.
I did notice, and did not really occur to me till you brought it up that he may have taken off more than usual. He is not gimpy in the pasture. He is not really gimpy, but he hits a stone occasionally and ouch.
I do think its a matter of too short, Not something I am used to farrier doing.
I will mention it to him
As for you Thomas, you are a pip. I can only imagine you come across different in person. LOL
To me retired is just not competing anymore. He is not elderly except in years.. Is still 20 going on 5. Has a touch of Arthritis in his hocks, but since
Keeping him on free choice turn out for a year and a half, and now on 24 7 turnout, you would never guess. Hes a pistol again. makes me wonder why I retired him anymore! LOL
As for moving him back where he was, well, no he was alone as in no other horses for a year and a half. It was certainly no good for his mind.
I appreciate all your comments. Will give it a few weeks and use some hoof toughner and see where we are at. :)

deltawave
Jun. 16, 2008, 10:13 AM
sublimequine, I said "Boas" only because in my personal experience they are by far the easiest ones to use and get on/off without bursting a blood vessel. :lol: I'm sure there are a lot of other opinions out there from people who've used boots far more than I have. But the Boas are what I have in my barn for "emergencies" and I like them for that purpose: something to stick on just in case, until the farrier can get out. :yes:

Nezzy
Jun. 16, 2008, 10:37 AM
So many so quick to resort to shoes.
IS there a reason behind your thinking?
Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well.
Did I mention that he is retired?? and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?

the reason is b/c the horse is in pain.

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 11:09 AM
the reason is b/c the horse is in pain.
IS that because the horse hit a few stones and took some ouchy steps, only on the stoney areas, I should run out and resort to putting shoes on him after being shoeless for over 3 years.
Hmm interesting logic. I think it makes more sense since he was just trimmed, to get him a pair of boas.. Thanks Lynn, I have easy boots and they are anything but! Talk about human torture devices. LOL
Thanks for your opinion Nezzy.. But I am convinced more and more that people do not read threads for comprehension. ie reading all that was posted or added.
If after another week he is still taking some ouchy steps I will have farrier out. to discuss it.
I guess I answered my own question in a way because nowing how well he has done without shoes, but on a softer surface in the past, I should have known. Considering up until this last trim he was fine.
I am going to try one of the hoof toughners. Cant hurt.

katarine
Jun. 16, 2008, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannois
So many so quick to resort to shoes.
IS there a reason behind your thinking?

Perhaps because many years of experience tells us it's in the best interests of the horse. And I've tried to 'make' horses be happy BF on hard and rocky ground and some horses simply cannot do it. Oh, but they do it in the wild, No, they don't. The bad footed ones don't live long ;)

Quote:
Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well.

Excellent, you've identified the cause. Bet if you took him back where he came from his ouchiness would disappear. Agreed- with a caveat. If he's only been there 3 weeks, and his 1000 lbs is making him foot sore on this hard ground- please make sure he's got a shady place to hang out on his tender feet. I'd coat his soles in Durasole or Venice Turpentine daily for 2 weeks- if he ain't footloose and fancy free in 2 more weeks- front shoes are in order.

Quote:
Did I mention that he is retired?? and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?

Yes you did, however trail riding a few times a week is not retired. Is probably much harder on the feet than any manicured riding ring. AMEN. That's not retired, that's just not competing.

Get the horse a set of shoes, if hoof tougheners and 2 more weeks doesn't do it for him.. He'll thank you for it
George - and Kat with caveats, LOL

matryoshka
Jun. 16, 2008, 11:24 AM
Hey Sannois,

Cavallo Boots are easy to put on and cheaper than Boas. I don't find the Boas easy to apply, since you have to pry up the back with a hoof pick after getting them on if they fit snug enough to be of much use. My local tack shop sells Cavallos by the pair for about $120 (IOW, you might be able to pick up a pair locally). Measure your horse's foot at the widest part for Cavallos. For length, measure from the to back to the a line drawn between the rearmost part of the heel wall (not the bulbs or the frog).

If your horse's feet are as wide as they are long, Original Old Macs are a good option. They are butt ugly, but they stay on and don't promote tripping if your horse has wide feet. Most boots are designed for feet that are longer than they are wide. For wide feet, this means the breakover gets delayed from the boot being too long, and the boot either gets pulled off or the horse trips. OM's were designed for feet that are as wide, or wider, than they are long. I had a horse that needed this type of boot, and they worked great for him.

Advice: measure first. If feet are longer than they are wide, Cavallos are an easy to use, relatively inexpensive option. If they are as wide as they are long, try OM's and "grin and bear" the uglies.

Keep in mind that boots are not designed for turnout and trap moisture. If you use them for turnout, be sure to remove them each day and allow to dry out for several hours. You can sprinkle medicated athelete's foot powder in them before reapplying the boot.

JHUshoer20
Jun. 16, 2008, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannois
So many so quick to resort to shoes.
IS there a reason behind your thinking?

Perhaps because many years of experience tells us it's in the best interests of the horse. And I've tried to 'make' horses be happy BF on hard and rocky ground and some horses simply cannot do it. Oh, but they do it in the wild, No, they don't. The bad footed ones don't live long ;)

Quote:
Like I said he has been barefoot for 3 years, and it wasnt until coming here that he seems to not handle the rocky ground well.

Excellent, you've identified the cause. Bet if you took him back where he came from his ouchiness would disappear. Agreed- with a caveat. If he's only been there 3 weeks, and his 1000 lbs is making him foot sore on this hard ground- please make sure he's got a shady place to hang out on his tender feet. I'd coat his soles in Durasole or Venice Turpentine daily for 2 weeks- if he ain't footloose and fancy free in 2 more weeks- front shoes are in order.

Quote:
Did I mention that he is retired?? and that we mainly trailride a few times a week?

Yes you did, however trail riding a few times a week is not retired. Is probably much harder on the feet than any manicured riding ring. AMEN. That's not retired, that's just not competing.

Get the horse a set of shoes, if hoof tougheners and 2 more weeks doesn't do it for him.. He'll thank you for it
George - and Kat with caveats, LOL
Kat,
I like the way you think!:yes:
George

Auventera Two
Jun. 16, 2008, 12:50 PM
Tell your farrier he was sore and ask him to leave a bit more hoof next time. If he's been bare for 3 years he will probably adjust to the harder ground rather quickly. If you buy a set of front hoof boots, you can use them on trail rides whenever needed and they'll last you forever. If you get to where you never need them anymore, you can put them Ebay and recoup around half your original investment. I've done that several times already! :) You can also put them on in the paddock during the days for a week or so during the adjustment period. Can you ask to move him to a softer paddock? Or can you rake the paddock to remove the larger stones for now?

If you shoe him, then that might eliminate the ouchiness but then you'll have no hope of him conditioning to it because he won't be exposed to it and the shoes will be necessary for the duration. I would want to avoid that if I were you.

You can use a gram of bute a day for pain relief for a week or so while his feet are adjusting to the new ground.

No, I wouldn't let him suffer for weeks or months on end, but I have a feeling in a week or two you'll see signifigant improvement.

Nezzy
Jun. 16, 2008, 12:50 PM
IS that because the horse hit a few stones and took some ouchy steps, only on the stoney areas, I should run out and resort to putting shoes on him after being shoeless for over 3 years.
Hmm interesting logic. I think it makes more sense since he was just trimmed, to get him a pair of boas.. Thanks Lynn, I have easy boots and they are anything but! Talk about human torture devices. LOL
Thanks for your opinion Nezzy.. But I am convinced more and more that people do not read threads for comprehension. ie reading all that was posted or added.
If after another week he is still taking some ouchy steps I will have farrier out. to discuss it.
I guess I answered my own question in a way because nowing how well he has done without shoes, but on a softer surface in the past, I should have known. Considering up until this last trim he was fine.
I am going to try one of the hoof toughners. Cant hurt.

You asked a question. i gave an answer. you don't need to get defensive about it. i don't mind if you choose to do otherwise. it was just a suggestion based on what i read. YES i did read your entire post and i did pay attention to it. To me, a horse that is in pain could benefit from shoes. I have had horses that CANNOT stay barefoot. SO altho i have tried the barefoot thing, it did not work. I gave you my answer based on my past experiences. I am not offended, i don't know why you seem to be.

CosMonster
Jun. 16, 2008, 01:02 PM
I wouldn't jump right to putting shoes on him either if he's been fine for three years of similar use. Let his feet grow out a bit, put Keratex or Durasole on him, and see what happens. If he stays sore, you might need to. I'd bet, though, that if he was fine until his recent trim, the farrier took too much off. It can be easy to do if the feet are overgrown. If I misread and he's been sore the entire time he's been there and not just since his recent trim, then you might want to give shoes a try.

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 01:07 PM
I wouldn't jump right to putting shoes on him either if he's been fine for three years of similar use. Let his feet grow out a bit, put Keratex or Durasole on him, and see what happens. If he stays sore, you might need to. I'd bet, though, that if he was fine until his recent trim, the farrier took too much off. It can be easy to do if the feet are overgrown. If I misread and he's been sore the entire time he's been there and not just since his recent trim, then you might want to give shoes a try.
Thanks at least someone read what I wrote. :) I agree and will see how he is after a few weeks. I am off to find some Keratex, And yes he was quite long, We were a bit over our regular schedule. And he was fine until this last trim. I obviously, answered my own questions! ;):)

katarine
Jun. 16, 2008, 01:14 PM
Thanks at least someone read what I wrote. :) I agree and will see how he is after a few weeks. I am off to find some Keratex, And yes he was quite long, We were a bit over our regular schedule. And he was fine until this last trim. I obviously, answered my own questions! ;):)

You know, you don't have to love the advice you're given freely, advice you did ask for. Being a smart ass about 'oh, gee, finally someone reads for comprehension' is not flattering to you. Just keep that in mind when you next ask a question, you know?

jeano
Jun. 16, 2008, 03:47 PM
When I first got my mare and I acquired a farrier (used next door neighbor's) I asked about not shoeing. He wanted to know was I planning on riding the horse. Yes I was. Well, he said, if its just around here (here being the adjacent properties, very sandy soil, woodland duff, pinestraw and grass surfaces) she'll probably be fine barefoot. I'll just do a pasture trim, we can always put shoes on her if she needs them.

Well, my horizons expanded to include roads with gravel, trails with rocks. Mare was tender when traveling on rocks. I agonized over hoof boot options, measured, scratched my head, thought about it, kept riding her barefoot. The problem went away over a period of about 6 months. She gradually became less and less careful and seemed more and more comfortable with any road hazards we encountered. I never did buy boots. She never was, in my opinon (I will acknowledge here that I Have No Business Owning A Horse Since I Allowed One to Experience Discomfort for 5 to 10 Minutes at a Time up to Three Times a Week) in any agony, certainly wasnt lame, and seemed to not let it bother her much.

On the other hand, when I HAVE had horses with shoes (AND with hoof boots), I have had the agony of loose shoes, waiting for the farrier, ripped off chunks of hoof, snow balling up when I failed to predict the first snowfall of the season accurately, and lets not even talk about Shoes and Mud or, even Worse, Boots and Mud. And seeing your field of vision go black as you stand on your head trying to get a boot on, or off.

I "only" trail ride, and "only" 6-12 miles 2 to 3 times per week per horse. Dont know what that translates to in arena miles or dog years. And my formerly flatfooted tenderfoot now has lovely cupped soles, gaits nicely, will always wear her toes funny, but seems to be able to stay sound and happy with all my abuse. I still use the same farrier, and HE asks ME how the next door neighbor's horse, now being ridden regularly after several years off, is doing when she encounters gravel. I tell him, about like my mare, a little ouchy but she'll slog over it. He says, Good, then she'll get used to it eventually.

Auventera Two
Jun. 16, 2008, 04:07 PM
jeano, for some reason your post made me :lol: out loud.

Somewhere some time ago on a different forum some people were saying that being careful over the gravel doesn't necessarily mean pain and agony. The horse is going slow to prevent the pain and agony. The horse would definitely be in pain if the rider forced the horse to run over it.

I don't know, I guess I'm all for a reasonable adjustment period to harsher footing without going over the line into being abusive about it.

I agree that shoes can be a pain in the teakettle as well. It seems like on these threads people always say to just stick shoes on the horse and live happily ever after. Some of the worst heartache I've had has been over lost shoes! Shoes coming off in the mud or being wrenched off with a hind foot. And the bad part about losing a shoe is that when your horse is shod, they generally depend on those shoes so you always have to carry an easyboot. If you don't, it's a long painful walk back home. And don't even talk to me about half the hoof wall coming off with the stupid shoe! Acck. I'm so thrilled I don't have to worry about that anymore. At least when you lose a boot you just stick it back on and keep going. There can be major consequences to losing a shoe.

One of the worst injuries I've ever seen was on a warmblood gelding who tore a shoe off halfway and then proceeded to rip the opposite leg open - to the bone - with the half torn off shoe. There are pros and cons to everything - barefoot, shoes, and boots!

whbar158
Jun. 16, 2008, 04:29 PM
I know the OP added on later, but from reading the first post is does sound like the horse has been very uncomfortable for 3 months at new place. Also did not say what type of footing the horse was turned out on. I agree if the horse was fine except for a few areas on the property I would leave him barefoot. Now if he was not out on grass and it was rocky it would be different. That was the impression I got from the first post. I know some horses that can go barefoot and some that can't. If your horse has been barefoot that long I am guessing he will be fine just watch the trimming.

LMH
Jun. 16, 2008, 04:34 PM
I guess if you shoe the horse and he takes one bad step on a rock, then the next solution is shoe with pads?

What happens THEN if he takes a bad step?

Shoot him?

Seem logical.

Nezzy
Jun. 16, 2008, 04:44 PM
the OP did not say the horse took ONE bad step. The OP said her horse was in pain.

sublimequine
Jun. 16, 2008, 04:55 PM
sublimequine, I said "Boas" only because in my personal experience they are by far the easiest ones to use and get on/off without bursting a blood vessel. :lol: I'm sure there are a lot of other opinions out there from people who've used boots far more than I have. But the Boas are what I have in my barn for "emergencies" and I like them for that purpose: something to stick on just in case, until the farrier can get out. :yes:

Ah okay! I've actually never used the Boas before, that's why I asked. :)

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
I know the OP added on later, but from reading the first post is does sound like the horse has been very uncomfortable for 3 months at new place. Also did not say what type of footing the horse was turned out on. I agree if the horse was fine except for a few areas on the property I would leave him barefoot. Now if he was not out on grass and it was rocky it would be different. That was the impression I got from the first post. I know some horses that can go barefoot and some that can't. If your horse has been barefoot that long I am guessing he will be fine just watch the trimming.
I never said horse has been very uncomfortable at new place for three months. I deleted nothing. I Said, horse has beena bit tender onver gravel and rocky ring the past few days since hr was trimmed last Wed. And only when I rode him on those areas, fine in pasture which is NOT rocky but very grassy.
I appreciate all the posts, some folks seemd sarcastic in their replies, Some made alot of sense.
I am not about to run out and throw shoes on him cause he took a few tender steps over gravel driveway and rocks. I have since talked to my farrier and he said he may have trimmed him a bit shorter he said put some pine tar on his soles and give it a week. He was the one that suggested he go shoeless three years ago, His feet were never better when I finally took them off.
If I gave the impression he was dead lame I dont know where.
I also know that this subject has always been a sore spot on this forum.. just read the mods sticky! So I guess I set myself up for a BArefoot or not debate.
Thanks to the sensible answers, Boots, Hoof hardner, waiting a few weeks.
I like a poster a few posts up must be an abuser if my horse is allowed to feel any ounce of pain.
But ths afternoon you sure would not have know he was so mistreated as he galloped top speed around the pasture.
And to Katherine, I am sorry you thought I was being snippy. It seems that many people no matter what the topic only read the original post, or maybe not even that, just the last few posts, and get many things incorrect. I think the tone was set when the one poster who seems to be a farrier? at least thats what their screen name would suggest.. said
Shoe him all the way around. :eek:

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 05:39 PM
the OP did not say the horse took ONE bad step. The OP said her horse was in pain.
I reread my post and I said he was Ouchy the last couple of days over the stoney areas. Ouchy is just that ouchy. My term, My mistake. He was what I call tender over the rocky areas. fine on sand and grass, And this is just since he was trimmed last week. And It was Friday Morning. Rode him Sat.
And he took a few ouchy steps.
I guess I need to be far more specific.
What I really wanted to know was about hoof toughners. which was the final question in my post.
I guees to me if I had said horse is DEAD lame in the ring, in the pasture etc. That would have been a major sign, stone bruise, quicked.
Sorry I was so unclear.
Will let you know how he is after a week.
Like LMH said Horses can take an ouchy step on a rock with shoes.

I think some folks really like to read more into things.
Gee is this my first train wreck??;):winkgrin:
I guess my attempt at humor.. Woman on the beach. was not such a good idea. My husband tells me I am no comedienne.!! ;)

JHUshoer20
Jun. 16, 2008, 06:01 PM
I think the tone was set when the one poster who seems to be a farrier? at least thats what their screen name would suggest.. said
Shoe him all the way around. :eek:
Whats wrong with that sound advice? Why does that suggestion elicit an eek?

If you were to do that instead of searching the internet hoping to find people who will agree with you your horse will have instant relief. A few of us have seen a few of them helped through the use of shoes.
George

katarine
Jun. 16, 2008, 06:21 PM
Sannois, one of my favorite quotes is that 'imprecise speech is one of the leading causes of insanity' ;)

you could have simply posted this:

which hoof tougheners do you all find most effective when helping a BF horse adjust to harder footing than he's used to?

Thanks
-----

Now then- you'd still get told everything from slap four shoes on to venice turnpentine. You accidently overshared, and dammitalltohell, some of us read it all and yes- hate to say it- you're a smart ass when you drop bombs like hello?? read for comprehension! That's just petty and small. You DID ask, remember? Just say 'thanks for you thoughts, I appreciate your time.'

Honestly- my response would not be one word different than it was, though. IMO, my advise to you was and is- sound.

best wishes in whatever you chose.

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 06:39 PM
Sannois, one of my favorite quotes is that 'imprecise speech is one of the leading causes of insanity' ;)

you could have simply posted this:

which hoof tougheners do you all find most effective when helping a BF horse adjust to harder footing than he's used to?

Thanks
-----

Now then- you'd still get told everything from slap four shoes on to venice turnpentine. You accidently overshared, and dammitalltohell, some of us read it all and yes- hate to say it- you're a smart ass when you drop bombs like hello?? read for comprehension! That's just petty and small. You DID ask, remember? Just say 'thanks for you thoughts, I appreciate your time.'

Honestly- my response would not be one word different than it was, though. IMO, my advise to you was and is- sound.

best wishes in whatever you chose.
I need to be brief. I do again apologize for the sarcasm.. I guess I have read too many COTH thread all these years.
Point taken. No hard feelings I hope! :)

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 06:44 PM
Whats wrong with that sound advice? Why does that suggestion elicit an eek?

If you were to do that instead of searching the internet hoping to find people who will agree with you your horse will have instant relief. A few of us have seen a few of them helped through the use of shoes.
George
For some horses, but for a horse that has done very well barefoot for 3 years, and never did all that well shod, IT would not be the answer.

meaty ogre
Jun. 16, 2008, 07:20 PM
I bought some Sole Guard by vettec intending to use it on a horse who is barefootin' it right now in order to spread his heels and correct an atrophied frog, but we decided against using it at the last shoeing as it didn't seem like he needed any additional support. The farrier told me to keep it on hand though and we may try it if my ground gets too hard this summer. Might be something to consider if your farrier has the gun and is familar with the product. A tube that will do both fronts is about $30, much cheaper than any boot.

Haven't used it yet and there hasn't been a lot of feedback on the board, so I don't know if that will help at all.
http://www.vettec.com/65/index.htm

Nezzy
Jun. 16, 2008, 08:04 PM
I reread my post and I said he was Ouchy the last couple of days over the stoney areas. Ouchy is just that ouchy. My term, My mistake. He was what I call tender over the rocky areas. fine on sand and grass, And this is just since he was trimmed last week. And It was Friday Morning. Rode him Sat.
And he took a few ouchy steps.
I guess I need to be far more specific.
What I really wanted to know was about hoof toughners. which was the final question in my post.
I guees to me if I had said horse is DEAD lame in the ring, in the pasture etc. That would have been a major sign, stone bruise, quicked.
Sorry I was so unclear.
Will let you know how he is after a week.
Like LMH said Horses can take an ouchy step on a rock with shoes.

I think some folks really like to read more into things.
Gee is this my first train wreck??;):winkgrin:
I guess my attempt at humor.. Woman on the beach. was not such a good idea. My husband tells me I am no comedienne.!! ;)

Well, to me, you implied your horse is in pain. I gave my opinion. that was all it was. You did not need to get defensive. "SHOES" is not a dirty word, and shoes actually do help a lot of horses. Sorry that i did not know that the word SHOES would get you so upset.

matryoshka
Jun. 16, 2008, 08:07 PM
What is this? Beat up the OP day? Sheesh! She asked a question because she wanted to know what others have done maybe? Perhaps she was hoping to hear, "Well, that happened with my horse. He was ouchy for a few days and then went sound. Don't worry about it." Sometimes we ask questions hoping for reassurance and do not mean to start a debate.

I vote people give Sannois a break, do not expect her to have the writing skills of a professional writer, allow her an emotional response when she hears answers she doesn't like, etc. You know? Some people need to step away from the keyboard. Failing that, type out a response and choose NOT to submit it. Then blanket policies will not need to be applied to threads about hoof health.

deltawave
Jun. 16, 2008, 08:12 PM
A lot of people go straight for the jugular on these shoeing/barefoot threads: like the old joke--the wife asks her husband why he's sitting up at the computer until 2am reading bulletin boards/chat rooms:

"Because someone out there somewhere might be WRONG about something!" :lol:

Appassionato
Jun. 16, 2008, 10:11 PM
What is this? Beat up the OP day? Sheesh! She asked a question because she wanted to know what others have done maybe? Perhaps she was hoping to hear, "Well, that happened with my horse. He was ouchy for a few days and then went sound. Don't worry about it." Sometimes we ask questions hoping for reassurance and do not mean to start a debate.

I vote people give Sannois a break, do not expect her to have the writing skills of a professional writer, allow her an emotional response when she hears answers she doesn't like, etc. You know? Some people need to step away from the keyboard. Failing that, type out a response and choose NOT to submit it. Then blanket policies will not need to be applied to threads about hoof health.

Better than that: when snarkiness was directed at her, she earned the right to give the same. I can give the exact post of when it started too. I took it as snark, I couldn't blame Sannois for a single one of her responses since then. And my horse is shod! By a well-known farrier! So it isn't that I'm sticking up for a "bare-foot bud" or some crap like that...I've been known to call them out as well.

To Sannois, I'm late in my response (satellite probs) and as much as I love katarine and others...I disagree. The OP's horse's problems presented me with more questions than answers. The "just shoe him" response isn't 100% infallible. With "retirement" and "barefoot for 3 years" and "recently long intereval between shoeings" and "ouchy on rocks (occasional rocks)" made me have qeustions of just trimmed too short, or that the horse is now metabolic (when before he might have tested normally). Just my thoughts.

Sannois
Jun. 16, 2008, 10:52 PM
Better than that: when snarkiness was directed at her, she earned the right to give the same. I can give the exact post of when it started too. I took it as snark, I couldn't blame Sannois for a single one of her responses since then. And my horse is shod! By a well-known farrier! So it isn't that I'm sticking up for a "bare-foot bud" or some crap like that...I've been known to call them out as well.

To Sannois, I'm late in my response (satellite probs) and as much as I love katarine and others...I disagree. The OP's horse's problems presented me with more questions than answers. The "just shoe him" response isn't 100% infallible. With "retirement" and "barefoot for 3 years" and "recently long intereval between shoeings" and "ouchy on rocks (occasional rocks)" made me have qeustions of just trimmed too short, or that the horse is now metabolic (when before he might have tested normally). Just my thoughts.
What exactly do you mean by Metabolic?? Founder? I have had a foundered horse and she could not even walk or stand for long. Of course that was a result of potomac fever. I guess something to keep in mind if the situation does not improve. But after riding him today and turning him back out, I would be hard pressed to think anything of the sort.
I know its always possible, But I am still feeling that he was trimmed a bit too short.
Sorry if this was a bad subject to post. I appreciate the thoughtful answers, App, Matryoshka, And others. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers of the Barefoot Vs. Shoes group. lol
For the record. I have nothing against a shod horse. Just made little sense to run out and shoe a horse that was just a bit tender footed.
Not falling down lame. I have some Keratex now so we will see how he is in a week. I will let you know. thanks you again.. :)

Appassionato
Jun. 16, 2008, 11:55 PM
"Metabolic" does NOT always mean founder...or even presently clinically laminitic! I own one! He'll show rings, but not a pulse and heat (for major laminitic/founder stuff). Yet on his pemphigus (autoimmune disease) mild flare-up, he'll show heat and pulse but no rings...figure THAT one out! Either way, there is is no one set standard for figuring out laminitis anymore. Before I sound like a laminitis queen over here, please feel free to google for quite awhile! You'll hit BS and real stuff for some time. Since Cushing's and IR (by reading through what you said) has already been mentioned by your own vet for this mare, I'd look out for higher sugar stuff (READ: go ahead and start a lower sugar diet, just in case...we can get a picky eater eating later)..and test. NOW. AND later to check levels and diet. That's the best advice I can give, and honestly! I can't say what's wrong with your horse...there's honestly too little information provided! Just giving ideas from info provided and experiences I or other's had!

FWIW, my horse was "lame" when he competed intermediate (** star)...no one could see it. I felt it. And retired the horse shortly afterwards. Much later, he foundered. NOT that your horse is foundering...just that I miseed the fact my horse was "lame" when I had to retire him "sound" (else I knew I'd have problems) from eventing years earlier to just compete dressage only and jumpers...

monalisa
Jun. 17, 2008, 08:35 AM
The barn where my horse lives has hard footing. I use Sole Paint by Seashore Acres on her feet when the ground is hard. It is expensive (about $55 for a container with a brush) but it helps take the sting out of her feet. It is worth the cost. My horse wears shoes all around. Would consider putting shoes on. If your horse's feet are hurting then she likely needs shoes.

matryoshka
Jun. 17, 2008, 08:47 AM
..Sorry if this was a bad subject to post..Not a bad subject to post. For some reason, people lose their heads when talking about hoof care. I could go on, but that's all I'll say (my internal editor is mostly working today ;) ). I said my piece in the sticky. But this thread goes to show that trimmers and farriers are NOT the only ones who get touchy and rude when the subject of hooves comes up.

I'm glad your horse is feeling better. You farrier will know better how to trim the next time, given the footing and his reaction to the last trim. Not letting the interval get so long next time will also help your farrier to do a better job. I bet he feels badly that the horse was at all sore.

S1969
Jun. 17, 2008, 08:59 AM
My thoughts:

My horses are usually not sore after a trim.....my first thought is that the trim was bad.

Boots are a reasonable alternative to shoeing IF he is comfortable in turnout because boots need to come off daily.

I have both Boas and Cavallos; I like them both. Got them locally for the same price and was able to try them on and return any that didn't fit. Check your local tack/horseshoe supply stores.

The Boas fit my TB mare better than Cavallos; Cavallos fit my draft mare better than Boas. Just a hoof shape thing.

I'd at least wait a few days to see how he recover from the trim - if he seems better quickly, I would agree that the trim might be an issue. If after a week he still seems ouchy, I'd consder other options - shoes, boots, etc. Personally I'd rather shoe than paint their soles every day, especially if you don't get terrific results.

Auventera Two
Jun. 17, 2008, 09:12 AM
From Sannois' posts I never thought "oh my god the horse is in PAIN." Ouchie for a few days on hard footing after a recent trim does NOT equal dead lame and in pain and needing 4 shoes in order to be able to even walk. I read exactly what she wrote and she never said the horse was in some kind of dire pain which is what some of the people here read.

She wanted to know what to do about feet that are ouchie recently after a a trim, on the hard footing.

On these hoof threads I think so many people just shoot off their mouth before they even think or read because it's whoever has the fastest draw can do the most damage to the other side. It's really sad and pathetic. :rolleyes:

Moderator 1
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:14 AM
Just wanted to chime here after happening upon this thread that overall it's has been a pretty good example of ways to express very different perspectives on a one situation without getting into a personally insulting knock-down, drag-out, which is the point of the infamous "sticky." ;)

Given the circumstances presented, some people felt shoes were the way to go, some didn't--everyone is entitled to express those opinions, regardless of whether or not it's the specific route the OP was considering. Those parties and the OP questioned each other and further supporting info for those opinions was given without that much attitude and stayed focused on the OP. We can all have these disagreements and even misunderstandings about content or tone, and still maintain a productive atmosphere--it doesn't have to escalate into a battle, but it doesn't have to all hand-holding and sunshine either. :winkgrin: We want the boards to support the sharing of diverse opinions.

Now back to the OT. If anyone would like to provide input regarding our handling of hoof threads or other situations, feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
Mod 1

marta
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:31 AM
when my mare developed laminitis for the first time (and i didn't know about it), she would only stumble occasionally on gravel driveway. it kept on getting worse, and eventually she was reluctant to move forward on gravel altogether, but in the field or arena she moved fine.
i was v. ignorant on the subject back then and my mare was lucky that someone else (a barefoot trimmer i contacted) with more knowledge took a look at her before things got out of control. but i would seriously consider verifying that you're not dealing with laminitis.

katarine
Jun. 17, 2008, 10:39 AM
Sannois, no harm no foul with me, baby :)

Hope your pone is 100% post haste :)

and I'll muddy the waters by being pro shoe for horses in real work or that do need them (3/4 at my barn), but I'm pulling JJ's shoes next week, b/c he's been bare before and he can handle it. My other QH cannot- too heavy on tiny feets God gave him. JJ will get some Simple Boots for his brief trail riding ventures. Here I sit, wearing one sandal, with ther other bare, just to spice things up for a second :cool:

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 01:30 PM
Just wanted to chime here after happening upon this thread that overall it's has been a pretty good example of ways to express very different perspectives on a one situation without getting into a personally insulting knock-down, drag-out, which is the point of the infamous "sticky." ;)

Given the circumstances presented, some people felt shoes were the way to go, some didn't--everyone is entitled to express those opinions, regardless of whether or not it's the specific route the OP was considering. Those parties and the OP questioned each other and further supporting info for those opinions was given without that much attitude and stayed focused on the OP. We can all have these disagreements and even misunderstandings about content or tone, and still maintain a productive atmosphere--it doesn't have to escalate into a battle, but it doesn't have to all hand-holding and sunshine either. :winkgrin: We want the boards to support the sharing of diverse opinions.

Now back to the OT. If anyone would like to provide input regarding our handling of hoof threads or other situations, feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
Mod 1
I think it was fairly well resolved.. dont you?? I am just now realizing how touchy the hoof issue is. Gee I thought it was Slaughter! ;)
Anyhoo. I recieved some great food for thought, some well thought out advise, some advise that I thought was extreme, but like you say everyone has opinions.
I will give a short update..
My boy seems much better today. in fact he gave his one little lesson kid her first lesson of the season.
He never took an ouchy or noddy step. The ring is anything but well manacured. A bit stoney. So I was happy to see that.
I did use some Tuff Stuff on his soles, Can not find anything else right now.
He was moving out nicely when she could get him to trot, just a beginner.
I again appreciate the great response from everyone. And the support from many.
I in no way thought I was making it sound like my horse was in dire pain.. But maybe I need to learn to be a better writer.
So maybe this thread is a lesson that hoof threads can be productive.
;);) Thanks again all. Will continue to see how he is.
I am planning on getting a pair of boots cause I think they are a smart investment. Just not easy boots! :D

sublimequine
Jun. 17, 2008, 02:35 PM
But.. what if I WANT hand holding and sunshine?!?! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Just kiddin! :lol:

Good luck to your horse, OP! I'd definitely get a topical like Durasole or Venice Turpentine, in either case. Both can help shod horses, too! :yes:

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 02:47 PM
But.. what if I WANT hand holding and sunshine?!?! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Just kiddin! :lol:

Good luck to your horse, OP! I'd definitely get a topical like Durasole or Venice Turpentine, in either case. Both can help shod horses, too! :yes:
DH on a tack store hunt .. we live in the boonies and he works in the city, to get some hoof toughner, all he could find is Farrier Formula Tuff Stuff.
He bought it, and to me it smells like paint thinner. But today at the barn I found my Venice Turpentine. Need to organize my trunk.lol
I still think it cant hurt to get a good pair of boots for trail. Too bad I can't take him to the store and try different ones on.
OK so I wont open up a whole nother can of worms by asking which ones.
I know several of you have mentioned a few. So I guess I dont care about the cost, more the good fit and ease of on and off. No more blacking out from trying to pry EZboots on or off. ;):D:lol:

sublimequine
Jun. 17, 2008, 02:49 PM
DH on a tack store hunt .. we live in the boonies and he works in the city, to get some hoof toughner, all he could find is Farrier Formula Tuff Stuff.
He bought it, and to me smell like apint thinner. But today at the barn I found my Vece Turpentine. Need to organize my trunk.
I still think it cant hurt to get a good pair of boots for trail. Too bad I can take him to the store and try different ones on.
OK so I wont open up a whole nother can of worms by asking which ones.
I know several of you have mentioned a few. So I guess I dont care about the cost, more the good fit and ease of on and off. No more blacking out from trying to pry EZboots on or off. ;):D:lol:

The first time I put my mare's easyboots on.. it took 3 PEOPLE. I'm not even kidding. :uhoh:

Luckily now I have the 'method' down and can do it myself. :lol:

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
The first time I put my mare's easyboots on.. it took 3 PEOPLE. I'm not even kidding. :uhoh:

Luckily now I have the 'method' down and can do it myself. :lol:
I remember spraining a finger years ago when I was trying to put on on same horse after he threw a shoe.
I have been hunting And I do believe I tossed them.. or gave them away, Cant find them anywhere! I think I tossed them in a fit of rage! :lol:

trubandloki
Jun. 17, 2008, 03:13 PM
To the OP, thank you for asking this question. Your horse sounds like my boy. Recent trim, maybe at tad too short, wondering if I should do something to help until things grow out a little.

I did buy a pair of easy boot Epics for riding. Having actually read the directions on the packaging they are much easier to deal with than I remember them being when I assumed I knew what I was doing putting them on and off.

Auventera Two
Jun. 17, 2008, 04:31 PM
Sannois - the Old Mac's G2 are really easy to work with but they are heavier as far as boots go. I used them for a few years, and my trail riding buddy uses them and we both LOVE them, but I know some people don't like them.

The Cavallos are supposed to be extremely simple to work with but I've heard that they are "cheapie" looking and feeling???

marta
Jun. 17, 2008, 04:33 PM
ease of use is not at the top of my priorities, so i use the bares with the bungee and a rubber mallet to get them on, however, the up buckles on epics or bares makes them super easy to put on. om's are easy to put on. renegades are easy to put on (not by easycare). so you have a lot of choices out there.

on another discussion board we were talking about how there is a demand out there for a hoof boot specialist who can come to a barn with various hoof boots, and help you fit your horse with a pair of boots. i've been using boots for a long time and i'm still periodically going through a debate whether she's a size 0 or 00. so right now i have 2 pairs of 0's and 2 of 00's and i had the 0's listed for sale but now i'm hesitant to let them go...

Auventera Two
Jun. 17, 2008, 04:47 PM
on another discussion board we were talking about how there is a demand out there for a hoof boot specialist who can come to a barn with various hoof boots, and help you fit your horse with a pair of boots. i've been using boots for a long time and i'm still periodically going through a debate whether she's a size 0 or 00. so right now i have 2 pairs of 0's and 2 of 00's and i had the 0's listed for sale but now i'm hesitant to let them go...

I'm not a "hoof boot specialist" but I do keep a variety of sizes so when I trim somebody's horses I can just try on various boots to see what fits. Of course that only applies to the Easycare line because that's the only ones I sell, but that's what most people want to buy anyway.

I had a guy trailer his pack string to my house and try on all the boots to get the right fit. He was leaving for out west in a few weeks and didn't have the time to "hope" he got the sizing right then re-order if it wasn't. It worked out perfect and he was very happy!

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 04:57 PM
There are so many choices.
I dont know where to start. I could not begin to tell you what size he is.
And I know someone in this topic posted how to measure, I need to go find it.
It seems like alot of people use boots. Do all trail riders and endurance riders use them?
I will admit I know nothing. The only reason I had an easy boot was for a tossed shoe until the farrier could get back out. Looks like I have to do some studying! Hey I think the thread is Morphing! :lol:

sublimequine
Jun. 17, 2008, 05:01 PM
There are so many choices.
I dont know where to start. I could not begin to tell you what size he is.
And I know someone in this topic posted how to measure, I need to go find it.
It seems like alot of people use boots. Do all trail riders and endurance riders use them?
I will admit I know nothing. The only reason I had an easy boot was for a tossed shoe until the farrier could get back out. Looks like I have to do some studying! Hey I think the thread is Morphing! :lol:

There's pretty good directions on Easycare's website for their boots. I was really nervous about getting the right size, but as long as you follow the directions really closely, it works out fine. :)

marta
Jun. 17, 2008, 05:17 PM
take a picture of the hoof with the measuring tape or ruler across it in the widest and longest part of the hoof. then posted on this friendly board and someone (or all) will give their opinion as to what size they believe your horse takes in various boots (b/c they're not all the same, that would be too easy;)).

in my experience most endurance riders who use easy care products use either bares or epics.
what is your intended use for this horse? if you have a local tack shop which carries the easy care products (or at least a few of them) you should go and look at the boots. it'll give you a good idea of what they're like and probably help to narrow down your choice.

renegades have been getting great feedback so if your horse's feet aren't too small (my horses are), you might want to go that way. you can take those photos w/ the measuring tape, send them to kurt (inventor of the renegades) and he'll respond and tell you what size is right for your horse. my gf did that (in her case it turned out they didn't make them in her horse's size:().

marta

JHUshoer20
Jun. 17, 2008, 05:22 PM
Just wanted to chime here after happening upon this thread that overall it's has been a pretty good example of ways to express very different perspectives on a one situation without getting into a personally insulting knock-down, drag-out, which is the point of the infamous "sticky." ;)

Given the circumstances presented, some people felt shoes were the way to go, some didn't--everyone is entitled to express those opinions, regardless of whether or not it's the specific route the OP was considering. Those parties and the OP questioned each other and further supporting info for those opinions was given without that much attitude and stayed focused on the OP. We can all have these disagreements and even misunderstandings about content or tone, and still maintain a productive atmosphere--it doesn't have to escalate into a battle, but it doesn't have to all hand-holding and sunshine either. :winkgrin: We want the boards to support the sharing of diverse opinions.

Now back to the OT. If anyone would like to provide input regarding our handling of hoof threads or other situations, feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
Mod 1
Actually me and Thomas were wondering how soon before a link to a BUA site got posted. It's been a couple days and that hasn't happened.

Perhaps that's why it was peaceful?????:yes:
George

gypsymare
Jun. 17, 2008, 06:44 PM
Give it a couple weeks. After moving from Florida to Nevada my mare was a bit ouchie. It took about 3-4 weeks to completely resolve itself. In the meantime I rode with boots. After the 4 week transition period her feet were rock hard and she was galloping across the rocky desert barefoot and happy. Now back in PA we had some sensitivity issues with the spring rains and increase in grass, but now that it's dry her feet are rock hard and sound again. Her last trim I even had to take a bit off the outside hinds which for the past 2 months had been wearing too short.

deltawave
Jun. 17, 2008, 07:08 PM
Post hoof pictures HERE? Ha, not bloody likely! :p I'm all for self-flaggelation and all (well, not really) but haven't got the guts for THAT. :lol:

Chiniko
Jun. 17, 2008, 07:21 PM
I guess if you shoe the horse and he takes one bad step on a rock, then the next solution is shoe with pads?

What happens THEN if he takes a bad step?

Shoot him?

Seem logical.


Especially if he's got any white feet!!! LOL

matryoshka
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:07 PM
Sannois, if you are purchasing boots, measure first, then look up the varieteis and see what fits your horse's measurements the best. Length is measured from the toe to the heel: imagine a line connecting the rearmost part of the weightbearing surface of the wall, and measure there to the toe. (If the heels are underrun, you are going to have to measure where the wall starts at the back of the hoof. For these kind of feet, the bulbs can poke so far back that it affects the length measurement--failing to take them into account can cause rubbing in certain kinds of boots.)

Width is measured across the widest part of the hoof. The best time to measure is shortly after a trim, so you are good to go.

I put a leather pad (the kind that shoers use) in the bottom of my horse's Old Mac's for a bit of added protection. For my OTTB, I used different types of boots on the fronts and hinds. He had round front feet, and the original Old Macs fit them well. I used Easyboot Epics with the up buckles on the hinds. The up clips are much, much easier than the standard clip the boots ship with.

The tread also varies considerably among the different boots. I like the treads on Easyboot Bares the best, but I hate the bungee closure. I'm installing the up buckles in place of the bungee on those. Easyboot styles are easier to put on if you twist them as you slide them on.

I've found the treads on Boas, Epics (and plain Easyboots), and original OM's can get caked with mud and become slick. The treads on Epics can also be slippery on wet grass. I think the tread on Cavallos is a nice compromise. The Bares are shaped in a way that does not trap mud, and I've had no problems with them being slick on any surface.

That's a short a synopsis as I can manage. :winkgrin:

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:35 PM
Post hoof pictures HERE? Ha, not bloody likely! :p I'm all for self-flaggelation and all (well, not really) but haven't got the guts for THAT. :lol:
I have to say I am just not that much of a Masocist!!
CAnt you just see the thread now!!! :eek::D:lol:;)

Sannois
Jun. 17, 2008, 11:38 PM
Sannois, if you are purchasing boots, measure first, then look up the varieteis and see what fits your horse's measurements the best. Length is measured from the toe to the heel: imagine a line connecting the rearmost part of the weightbearing surface of the wall, and measure there to the toe. (If the heels are underrun, you are going to have to measure where the wall starts at the back of the hoof. For these kind of feet, the bulbs can poke so far back that it affects the length measurement--failing to take them into account can cause rubbing in certain kinds of boots.)

Width is measured across the widest part of the hoof. The best time to measure is shortly after a trim, so you are good to go.

I put a leather pad (the kind that shoers use) in the bottom of my horse's Old Mac's for a bit of added protection. For my OTTB, I used different types of boots on the fronts and hinds. He had round front feet, and the original Old Macs fit them well. I used Easyboot Epics with the up buckles on the hinds. The up clips are much, much easier than the standard clip the boots ship with.

The tread also varies considerably among the different boots. I like the treads on Easyboot Bares the best, but I hate the bungee closure. I'm installing the up buckles in place of the bungee on those. Easyboot styles are easier to put on if you twist them as you slide them on.

I've found the treads on Boas, Epics (and plain Easyboots), and original OM's can get caked with mud and become slick. The treads on Epics can also be slippery on wet grass. I think the tread on Cavallos is a nice compromise. The Bares are shaped in a way that does not trap mud, and I've had no problems with them being slick on any surface.

That's a short a synopsis as I can manage. :winkgrin:
I do appreciate you typing that all out. I will get to measuring tomorrow.
So is it the cavallos you like the best??
Are they easy to put on. I seriously have little patience for stuff that takes alot of muscle.. never could stand pull on bell boots. Thats an exercise in self torture! LOL;)

matryoshka
Jun. 18, 2008, 12:34 AM
Typing isn't the problem--I type about 60 wpm. It's being brief that I find hard to do!! :rolleyes:

Yes, for what you are looking for, I'd recommend Cavallos. They've gotten good reviews here on COTH (there have been numerous threads about boots in the trail riding forum). I haven't tried them on my own horse, but I bought a pair for one of my trimming clients. The design looks pretty easy to use, the tread is good. I wouldn't recommend them for distance riding. I think the velcro closure will wear out a little fast, but if you wan't ease of use, they are the way to go.

For them to fit, your horse needs to have feet that are longer than they are wide. The size chart for the boots will let you know which size to get. Cavallo sizing is based solely on width.

trubandloki
Jun. 18, 2008, 09:30 AM
I used Easyboot Epics with the up buckles on the hinds. The up clips are much, much easier than the standard clip the boots ship with.


I just received my Epics yesterday - what do you mean by up clips? I am very curious.

matryoshka
Jun. 18, 2008, 07:18 PM
On this page, they are titled "Easy Up Replacement Buckles and Cables":

http://www.easycareinc.com/Other_Products/boot_accessories.aspx#EasyUp

Here is a page that shows what it looks like:

http://www.easycareinc.com/Other_Products/easyup_tips.aspx

I like that you can adjust the cables easily, without needing a hoof pick or to step on the clip to close it. If it gets caked with mud and you can't get the clip down to loosen, then a hoof pick insterted into the slot at the top opens the clip easily. I have not had one of these come loose when riding, as long as I adjusted it snugly. The tension in the cable helps keep it closed.

And the best thing about them? You can use them to replace the bungee closure in Bares. I really, really, dislike the bungee closure in the Bares.

trubandloki
Jun. 19, 2008, 08:44 AM
Thank you, I might have to get those replacement buckles.

TSWJB
Jun. 19, 2008, 01:09 PM
I bought some Sole Guard by vettec intending to use it on a horse who is barefootin' it right now in order to spread his heels and correct an atrophied frog, but we decided against using it at the last shoeing as it didn't seem like he needed any additional support. The farrier told me to keep it on hand though and we may try it if my ground gets too hard this summer. Might be something to consider if your farrier has the gun and is familar with the product. A tube that will do both fronts is about $30, much cheaper than any boot.

Haven't used it yet and there hasn't been a lot of feedback on the board, so I don't know if that will help at all.
http://www.vettec.com/65/index.htm

what is this? and who applies it the farrier or you?

vali
Jun. 19, 2008, 01:30 PM
I think the key here is that your horse was sore only after he was trimmed. You may simply need a new trimmer, or learn how to do it yourself. I've been taking lessons from a barefoot trimmer that my vet recommends and my horses' feet have never looked better. Many horseshoers take off too much sole and that makes the horse sore. Both my horses can now go on rocky trails barefoot without a problem. In the summer when the ground is hard I just rasp and shape them every 4 weeks or so, and then I have my trimmer come to check my work every 2-3 months.

Lauren!
Jun. 19, 2008, 11:57 PM
what is this? and who applies it the farrier or you?

You can see the product here: http://www.vettec.com/65/products/soleguard.html It's stuff you put in the bottom of their foot, kind of like a pour in pad, but without the shoe.

You need a applicator gun (which is not cheap, but most farriers have them) to apply it, but you can do it yourself if you have all the stuff, or a farrier could do it. I haven't tried it yet... I have all the stuff and have been meaning to, but have been too busy waiting for a fairly dry day here in rainy NJ!

Meshach
Jun. 20, 2008, 07:59 AM
question re: the epics.

I have bought a pair recently for my newly barefoot horse. and the gaiters have ripped already, is this common? they have ripped where the velcro attaches to it. Is there a way to replace the gaiters on the epics?

thanks

trubandloki
Jun. 20, 2008, 08:21 AM
question re: the epics.

I have bought a pair recently for my newly barefoot horse. and the gaiters have ripped already, is this common? they have ripped where the velcro attaches to it. Is there a way to replace the gaiters on the epics?

thanks

I have not had mine long enough to know if it is common or not, but if you feel they have ripped prematurely call the company.

It does appear you can buy a replacement gator though.

http://www.easycareinc.com/Other_Products/boot_accessories.aspx#easygaiter

Auventera Two
Jun. 20, 2008, 08:47 AM
question re: the epics.

I have bought a pair recently for my newly barefoot horse. and the gaiters have ripped already, is this common? they have ripped where the velcro attaches to it. Is there a way to replace the gaiters on the epics?

thanks

Definitely call Easycare and talk to them about it. I have boots that are on their 2nd full season of use with no ripped gaiters.

matryoshka
Jun. 20, 2008, 11:20 PM
I have had gaiters rip when my horse stepped hard on the back of the boot. In his case, I had purchased a size wide enough for his feet, but they were too long. I had to put in a heel strap and gaiter from a smaller sized boot and cut out the back of the boot so he wouldn't step on it. It worked.

Otherwise, I bought him Old Macs that are made for wide feet, and he never yanked one of those off. He did break the buckle, but they stay on fine with just the velcro.

This is why it is important to buy the boot that best fits your horse's hoof shape. We can't shape a boot for a hoof the way a good farrier can fit a shoe. They are not an ideal solution for some horses, but you can make them work even if your horse wasn't born with boot-shaped feet. :D