Tripping on the trail

[shilohsmom]

:confused:I need some help... my endurance horse is tripping on the trail more and more. I have changed farriers who have thought they knew the problem, and it did not help. She is not sore or lame at all. I bought this horse 3 years ago and called her a mountain goat because she could do anything, go anywhere and never take a wrong step. We have fallen several times at rides and just yesterday had a terrible fall at a trot over a fairly normal trail with some rocks. She has ripped her knee open so bad that she may never be the same. She is a GREAT endurance horse... top ten with no problems and loves the trail - eats it up. At first I thought she was tiring and that is why - but she does it just a few miles into a ride - about when she starts to settle down and relax and I can just ride her on the buckle. To me... I may be imagining this, but, it seems that she gets into a "zone" settles and relaxes and goes about her business and that is when it starts. I certainly do not want to keep her hyped up for a 50 or 100 - she would burn all her energy - I am exctied she is doing so well. I jsut need her to stop tripping on her front end. I thought maybe if I kept her on the bit and her head up the entire time, maybe that would help, but, wouldnt that make for a LONG ride and tire her out too??? Anyone had any experience with this?

[Shadow14]

Could be the shoeing??? If the ratio is all wrong and the front portion of the foot is too long he will catch a toe. I would try either NB shoes or have the toes rockered. That is the toe is rolled upwards like a tobagan.
He is not forging?????? Clicking???

This is NOT not my picture. I borrowed it from someone.
See how the front portion is less and the back is greater in proportion... If the ratio of front to back goes the other way the horse will trip.
I run rolled toes on most of my horses
http://i25.tinypic.com/2lwrbb9.jpg

From the widest part of the foot to the breakover must be less then from the widest part of the foot to the back of the heals. By rolling the toes or using NB shoes the breakover is moved back

the breakover in this picture is moved back from the leading edge of the toe.

[matryoshka]

My knee-jerk reaction is that your horse's toes may be too long. Without seeing the feet, though, it is a shot in the dark.

Also, I've noticed that IR horses tend to trip. Do you know whether your horse is IR?

[shilohsmom]

First... I dont know what IR is, so please expand.

Second... She does have a VERY long stride, but hardly ever forges. Very occassionally just like with any long strided horse you can just very seldomly hear that little clank. But, when she trips and falls, it is like she stubs her toe. It is really obvious that she literally stubs her toe, the front end usually catches herself from falling all of the way down in front, but two or three times her nose hits the trail and the knees take a beating.

As for long in the toe.... I do not think so. According to your picture she looks much like that, but, in the picture it looks like the shoe is set way back off the toe, which is not how she is shod. The previous farrier I had was shoeing her with natural balance shoes, but, according to my current farrier who seems to know what he is talking about, said that the guy was trying to shoe with a natural balance shoe like you would shoe with a traditional shoe which was really messing her up. Her wall in the front sides was seperating dramatically from her hoof, which he said will eventually make her VERY lame. And the first guy was rounding the toe so much it almost gave her a bullnosed look. Like a big lump in the front and then it totally went down from about 2/3 of the way down and changed agles completely. So to try to get that all straightened out, he just shod her traditional and cut her pretty far back to help counteract some of that seperation for now. He did say that she may need to go with the natural balance way, but with all of the seperation she had and rides coming up quickly, he went with traditional for now. This guy gives clinics on correct natural balance shoeing and seems to know his stuff. But, again she is increasing in her tripping no matter how she is shod.

I asked my vet and he of course said it could be so many things. From training to riding to my balance to shoeing to so many things good luck figuring it out. I just cant give up on her. She has so much potential and not only that... she is truly part of the family but loves to have a job. SHe can be wild and crazy endurance horse, then trun around and pack me around a cross country course, take a dressage lesson then take my 4 year old daughter on pony rides like an old nag. I cant just throw my hands up on this... I need to get to the bottom of it.

[carp]

IR = Insulin resistance

[AnotherRound]

Check her eyesight.

[chicamuxen1]

It is the shoeing, you just said that your new farrier went to traditional shoeing. Get the NB shoes back on her. Don't mean to sound like a know it all, but I'm a big believer in rounded toes with a break over moved further back. You old farrier may have taken that to an extreme, but the "traditional" shoeing with steel set all the way to the front edge of the foot is the screw up and the cause of the tripping. Gotta be.

Bonnie

[Shadow14]

It is the shoeing, you just said that your new farrier went to traditional shoeing. Get the NB shoes back on her. Don't mean to sound like a know it all, but I'm a big believer in rounded toes with a break over moved further back. You old farrier may have taken that to an extreme, but the "traditional" shoeing with steel set all the way to the front edge of the foot is the screw up and the cause of the tripping. Gotta be.

Bonnie

I agree. Go back to NB and get someone who knows how to properly apply them. They are not just set back from the toe, the heals need to be addressed and yes the heals need to be cut down.
The new farrier gives clinics on NB shoing and he doesn't use them on your horse???
Just because the shoe is set back doesn;t mean the toe needs to be rasp back. A 45 degree bevel on the toe is all that is needed and as for toe seperation NB is also good for that.
I use some NB and rocker most of the others but I do address break over.
A horse that forges is also helped by cutting the heals down. A lower heal promotes faster lift off of the foot but must must be accompanied by a early breakover to keep peak loads on the tendon down.

[matryoshka]

Yep, I meant that the toe stubbing could be from long toes. Forging has to do with when the horse picks up the front feet in relation to the hinds so that the hinds hit the bottom of the front feet. That can be a conformational issue, such as having a short backed horse. It can sometimes be alleviated through trimming and shoes, but does not generally cause tripping.

Professional Experience: I've had a number of clients whose horses were "habitual" trippers before I started trimming them (one lady cracked her sternum :no:). I trim these largely according to the Natural Balance (Gene Ovnicek's) protocol, paying special attention to the breakover point, and the tripping lessens or stops. Sometimes I have to experiment a bit for a particular horse to get it right. That's why I thought your horse might have too long a toe. Again, it is just a guess.

Having the breakover correct for a particular horse means s/he lifts the foot off the ground at the optimal point of the stride and doesn't keep it on the ground for an instant longer (as happens with too long a toe). If you want to feel how this works, put on some shoes that are too long for your feet and walk around. It is much, much easier to trip at a moment of inattention when the shoes are even slightly too long than when your shoes are the correct length for your feet. If walking is still easy, try running or playing a sport. ;)

Personal Experience: Some farriers (and trimmers) think horses need long toes for protection of the coffin bone. I had a farrier who did that for years--my husband's WB tripped a lot and had seedy toe. I put it down to poor conformation. Then the farrier moved away and I hired another one who listened to my description of how the horse moved. And she fixed the long toes. No more tripping. Seedy toe grew out. It turned out not to be a conformational issue (well, his conformation predisposes him to this problem) but a trimming issue.

Having said that: A persistant tripper, even with the breakover at the correct spot, could possibly have another health issue going on. Lyme, EPM and insulin resistance come to mind. One of my client's horses persisted in tripping even with a short breakover until she got his insulin resistance under control. That is a story all by itself and hopefully not what you are dealing with. This lady was scared to ride her horse because of the tripping. I rode the horse for her after I started trimming him to show that the tripping related to his toe length. He was much better, but still tripped occasionally. She had been working on the right diet for his insulin resistance, and now that she has it right (and his blood tests are excellent), he doesn't trip at all. This is anecdotal and not science. But it is a trend that I've been noticing: IR = tripping. Thought I'd pass it on as you search for the cause of the tripping.

[matryoshka]

I forgot to ask if you have discussed this problem with your new farrier? He probably has some ideas about how to help.

Even with regular (keg) shoes, your farrier could rocker the toe so that the breakover starts a little sooner. Breakover is actually when the heel leaves the ground, not when the toe leaves the ground. So a rocker (your farrier will know what this is) can help the heel lift a little sooner, then the toe will hopefully clear the ground and not stub. This is a good option for farriers who want to leave toe and don't like Ovnicek's Natural Balance shoes or protocols. "Rockering" is a time-honored way of improving the breakover. ;) I learned it from a AFA Certified Farrier.

[Sadie'sMom]

I've had three experiences with horses that began tripping, all of them different bio problems as opposed to shoeing problems. My first was, ahem, not knowing how to ride an upward transition. Then one was that it turned out he had ringbone. The third one was due to a neuro problem. I'm sure you know how to ride without making your horse trip ;) . I certainly don't hope it's the 2nd or 3rd scenario for you. Good luck!

[matryoshka]

It is odd that a horse that didn't trip previously would start now. However, one should rule out changes in the feet as part of the hunt for the cause. I, too, hope it is nothing serious!

[betsyk]

You've xrayed the front feet? that would give you information about whether there was anything new like ringbone going on in there, as well as giving you information about the length of her toes w/r/t breakover.

I have a TB gelding, retired event horse, who trips on the trail when he's due for a reset, when he's walking on the buckle, when the ground is uneven, when he's not paying attention, when he's tired... practically never trips at trot or canter if the ground is fairly even and is fine indoors. He's got ringbone and is in NB shoes. It does help him to stay on the aids most of the time and keep him focused on the task at hand instead of whatever goes on inside his little TB brain when left to its own devices. That, and resetting at 5 week intervals during trail riding season, so he doesn't get the chance to get out of balance.

[Ambrey]

You haven't gained any weight, or changed saddles, have you? I opened this thread because I have a tripper as well (nothing terrible, though, no falls!) but I think it's because I'm quite heavy for him. He's barefoot.

I think he'd make a fabulous endurance horse (he is full of go and has an amazing ground-covering walk and super smooth and fast trot as well) if not for the tripping! (I wouldn't ride him endurance, it would have to be my mom who's ~30 lbs lighter).

[pines4equines]

My horse was a terrible tripper and it had nothing to do with his feet, it was all saddle fit.

Maybe your horse is fitter and the saddle is not fitting as well as previously or the horse is older and it's not adjusting to an ill-fitting saddle as easily.

You might want to check with a saddle fitter. But also check after you ride, run your hand around his back and probe various areas to see if you get a reaction.

There is a terrific book by Joyce Harmon called The Horse's Pain-Free Back and Saddle-Fit book. Check that out. It is very informative and well-worth the price of the book.

[BroncoHollow]

Interesting thread as I have had a steadily increase with the problem of tripping on the trail with my best trail horse. Got so bad my horse was going to his knees on flat ground let alone on tricky mountain trails we ride - it was getting too dangerous to ride him.

I started with the chiropractor then proceeded to different farriers until I found someone whom I now believe is doing the right thing. The right combination, and part of that was rolling his front toes, it made a world of difference and I was once again taking him up in the high country, but he starting tripping again, at first just here and there but progressively increasing with time... and it had nothing to do with falling asleep on the trail.

A little pity party for me .... After 40 years of horse ownership and trying to be informed and proactive in the care and maintenance of our horses - I was so sadly lacking information on farrier care. Now this horse is showing the very early signs of side bone to which I attribute years to improper farrier care. I have no one to blame but myself, I was ignorant. X-rays are next to see what all going on. He is 11 years old, I've owned him as a yearling and I have been his only rider, we are a team. If I can find the bottom line problem and fix it, I will, but he always has a home here.

I hope you find the answers to what is casing the problem.

[Shadow14]

This is a picture of some rockered shoes. I start right at the 1st nail hole or about an inch back and produce a slight bend.
I prefer rockered to NB but just because of looks.
http://i31.tinypic.com/f0da0x.jpg

[Shadow14]

. So a rocker (your farrier will know what this is) can help the heel lift a little sooner, then the toe will hopefully clear the ground and not stub. . ;) I learned it from a AFA Certified Farrier.

The heals lift because the tendon pulls up on the back of the foot. The horse doesn;t lift the foot. The forward motion tightens the tendon and the heal is raised. If you cut the heal DOWN the heal will lift off sooner, a short heal lifts quicker.
The stress on the navicular bone and tendon goes up with the shorter heal thus the quicker breakover is used to releave this extra stress.
To trim to NB protocol requires not only a break over moved back but the heal cut down. While I seldom use NB shoes, the are pricey and I don't like the dubbed off look I like the trim method and just use a keg shoe, rocker the toe and perimeter fit.

[JackSprats Mom]

Have you done a basic neuro test on him? Turning him, crossing his feet over etc etc. Its something you can do quickly and easily at home just to rule out some basics.

but I think it's because I'm quite heavy for him. He's barefoot.


IMO very very unlikely for you to be the cause of tripping unless you are an unbalanced rider.