Broodmare with EPM

[Sunny's Mom]

I just found out that my sweet broodmare has EPM. She had a tough delivery, and tests later revealed she had EPM. We seem to have caught it early (thankfully). Her baby is fine.

We've ordered the Marquis, so relief is on its way. She's in TX, so I guess the risk of possums is there.

What do you guys think about breeding her back? Give her the year off do you think? She's 10, and otherwise in great health and good weight. That's what my gut is telling me, but the vet is saying that she'll be fine after a week.

[twistoffate]

I don't know about rebreeding her but I do know that we had a gelding that we treated with Marquis and he got MUCH worse before he got better. I don't know that I'd try to breed her until she's recovered if it was me and I'd keep a close eye on her around the baby. My guy was caught early but after about 3 weeks on the meds he was unsteady on his feet and I wouldn't have put it past him to fall. If heard other people saying the same thing about the treament too.

Good luck! He did turn out fine...it was just scary for a while!

[Laurierace]

I wouldn't breed a healthy mare in Texas this late in the year, let alone one that is sick. As the other poster says they often get much worse before they get better so you could be in for a rough spell. I would re-evaluate in February and go from there. Best of luck to you both.

[Sunny's Mom]

The stallion I use is in Montana, so he doesn't start shipping until May.

Tough isn't it???

But I think I will leave her open this year. It's just not worth the risk. She has the potential for a long life of lovely babies.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

What do you mean when you say she had a tough delivery? Has she been having symptoms before delivering? What makes the vet think she has EPM? Just blood tests? What are her symptoms now and when did she foal?

[Fairview Horse Center]

What do you mean when you say she had a tough delivery? Has she been having symptoms before delivering? What makes the vet think she has EPM? Just blood tests? What are her symptoms now and when did she foal?

Ditto. EPM and Lyme - the 2 most over diagnosed diseases.

[Sunny's Mom]

What do you mean when you say she had a tough delivery? Has she been having symptoms before delivering? What makes the vet think she has EPM? Just blood tests? What are her symptoms now and when did she foal?

Ditto. EPM and Lyme - the 2 most over diagnosed diseases.

That's totally how I felt too right? That marquis is 800 bucks! Not that I wanted her to have it, but I wanted to be pretty sure before shelling out that kind of money.

She couldn't get up after delivering her foal (he was huge, we named him Tank). For the first 24 hours she had seizures and we actually feared we would lose her. She recovered - all the regular blood tests (potassium, etc.) were ok. She did not have internal bleeding. But now she is having difficult pee'ing.

The vet thinks that she also might have some atrophy of the hind end (which isn't unusual in a broodmare, right?).

My babies and my broodmare are in TX (plentiful grass, nice climate, soft ground), I'm in Colorado - so I have to rely on my friend to keep a watch out for me. It's tough when stuff like this comes up.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

This does not sound like EPM to me. I've only had one broodmare with EPM and know some people who have had horses with EPM so I could be wrong but your mare's symptoms do not sound like EPM. It sounds like it could be neurological damage from delivering a large foal. Did they also test her Calcium? I think calcium deficiency can cause some pretty severe problems post foaling (seizures too, I think someone else mentioned in another thread).

If your mare had EPM you would have known it before delivery and even then you wouldn't be sure it is EPM because she could have had a pinched nerve that caused her to limp, trip, etc. A long term pinched nerve could also cause hind end atrophy.

My mare started tripping in the hind end when she was 8 months in foal. The barn owner just thought she needed a trim. The next week she was sedated to have her teeth floated and that's when it became apparent she was having neurological problems because she started spinning uncontrollably. She couldn't maintain her balance when sedated. Other problems include not being able to balance well enough to graze normally and having to keep moving while trying to graze in order to maintain balance. They can fall over if they try to move too fast, muscle atrophy, and they start losing weight from all the difficulties in eating. Some won't lay down because they have so much trouble getting back up. EPM progresses very rapidly.

A very large percentage of horses have been exposed to EPM. The protozoa is found not only in possum excrement but also armadillo and raccoon if I remember correctly. Testing a horse for EPM is likely to give you a positive reading because so many of them have been exposed. You can't tell if they have an active infection, though, just if they have been exposed some time during their life. I can't remember exactly but I think it is at least 50% of horses have been exposed.

I think if your mare had EPM and the related muscle atrophy you would already have figured out pre-foaling that something was very wrong with her. Before my mare foaled it took 3 men to hold her up on one side just so she could get her feet trimmed.

I recommend you ask a lot more questions and go visit your mare if you need to.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I believe it is 80% of all horses will test positive for EXPOSURE to EPM on a blood test. Spinal tests are also easily contaminated by BLOOD, so not reliable.

It sounds like nerve damage to me. Atrophy is easy to see, but can also be caused by injury, etc. Horses lame from bone spavin or any other hind end lameness will also show atrophy.

No way would I treat her for EPM. That is not a benign treatment.

[BasqueMom]

Hi,

Has she had at least the blood test to test for exposure. If it's negative, that rules
out EPM. If positive, time for a spinal tap at a clinic that knows what they are doing.
Have they done blood work to test for Lyme, selenium deficinacy, etc. It doesn't sound
like you really have a diagnosis.

Check out the EPM support center at www.meadowherbs.com. There is also a message
board by EPM horse owners at epm@yahoogroups.com. Been a member for years as
Basque is a recovered EPMer, several times.

And, JMO, I wouldn't rebreed her this year. If it is EPM, let her body recover. If it's not,
best to find out what it is.

[jody jaffe]

I went through 3 doses of Marquis on my horse when it first came on the market. Did nothing except put a hole in my bank account. The old fashioned suspension worked, as did my vet's unconventional approach of using the EPM vaccine as treatment every 6 weeks.

I also went the natural route -- vitamins, herbs, etc -- because my inclination is to avoid chemicals. I almost had to put him down after that course. It was then that my vet used the EPM vaccination as treatment, which made him (sort of) rideable again.

But in the end, it was all for naught. Took him to Va. Tech and they found a narrowing of the channel in his neck, so he's permanently neurological. The problem is that often times there can be several factors at work.

Good luck.

[Fairview Horse Center]

They do know that most of the time, horses will develop a resistance to the parasite. That is why so many are exposed, but not having problems.

[avezan]

Most horse's natural immune system can fight off the parasite, hence the postive blood test. The parasite enters the blood stream after being ingested, but then cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier. It is either expelled entirely or it stays in the blood stream, waiting for its opportunity to strike! If a horse gets stressed or sick, the parasite gets an opportunity. Pregnancy is definitely a stressor and many mares contract EPM or start showing symptoms during pregnancy. Ask me how I know. :(

[Sunny's Mom]

Most horse's natural immune system can fight off the parasite, hence the postive blood test. The parasite enters the blood stream after being ingested, but then cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier. It is either expelled entirely or it stays in the blood stream, waiting for its opportunity to strike! If a horse gets stressed or sick, the parasite gets an opportunity. Pregnancy is definitely a stressor and many mares contract EPM or start showing symptoms during pregnancy. Ask me how I know. :(

I think its a really rough thing.

Did your mare come out ok Avezan?

[ponygirl]

But now she is having difficult pee'ing.

The vet thinks that she also might have some atrophy of the hind end (which isn't unusual in a broodmare, right?).


For those that say this doesn't sound like EPM, well yes it absolutely can be signs of EPM. I emergency hauled my close friends mare up to Peterson & Smith a few months ago b/c she had these symptoms and was getting worse. Some simple initial neuro exams were done on her and she showed neuro issues in her face, partial paralysis as well as hind end paralysis. A spinal tap confirmed a severe case of EPM. This is the 2nd time she's had EPM. First time was also confirmed via Spinal Tap. She fully recovered the first time around. This time she's about 85% and most likely will remain there. That she has recovered this much is amazing as they were unsure she was going to survive for awhile.

[avezan]

I think its a really rough thing.

Did your mare come out ok Avezan?

Yes, she foaled fine. I kept her on Marquis for another month after she foaled, even though it was month #3 ($$$). now she is stable. Still neurologic, but not very severe. I'm hoping her symptoms will continue to improve. Her foal is just wonderful. Definitely a bright spot in this whole ordeal. Good luck with your mare!!